If there's a fictional girl we have most in common with it's Alice, not Lolita. Why don't we just call it Alice fashion from now on?
This has come up a million times, it's not a unique idea. Lolita has and will always been called lolita. Get over it. It's just a name. Freaking out over similarities to Nabakov only strengthens the perceived link to it.
Plus, the idea for Alice in Wonderland came from Lewis Carrol's real-life friendship with a little girl and critics have been arguing for years about whether there was anything weird about his obsession with her.
I think you guys should get over the fact that certain people have that connotation of lolita. It happens, it's not going to change, and it's something to just acknowledge and move on from.
There is a lot of stuff that toes the line between Alice-lolita and just a sax coord in this dump, but this one has an apron and stripy socks so I'm counting it.
This one has an usakumya so I'm just barely counting it.
While I agree that the name will probably never change, I think saying "just get over it" is a bit harsh.
I work with children so I am always paranoid to have my name associated with the term "lolita" because a misunderstanding could very well get me fired.
(I always call it EGL, Quaintrelle, or just jfashion)
I don't care what people think about me, but I do care about my career.
same. I'm not stupid enough to think it will change, but I'll never be a lifestyler in case someone from my job sees me and investigates. you can't work with kids in the U.S. and wear "lolita." it just doesn't work.
luckily I also like otome so in case someone asks I can just tell them it's that. most normies won't be able to tell the difference.
Not sure if Alice going through the door, or The Secret Garden. Either way.
>has only ever had jobs working with kids
>wear lolita almost daily
You can, you just dont freak out like an autist if they see it.
Every job with kids I have had though they had their own uniforms anyway so I couldnt (and wouldnt) wear lolita to work. But everyone knew I dressed "eccentric" and they loved it.
Alice otome okay? Taken from an Axes Femme listing:
Two more Alice things I've been looking at because of this thread:
I don't think the story is specially relevant in itself. There are some elements like the tea party, the rabbit and so on that are embellished in some items and prints.
There are also some snow white prints I think. On the whole it would be nice if they borrowed more from fairytales or even Poe.
But alice in wonderland has influenced lolita fashion as a whole since before prints became popular, it's not just a few prints like with snow white. There's a reason several brands and shops use Alice in their name. We don't know enough about the origins of lolita to know if the story has any relevance.
You might be right. When I look at old pictures of what was then called Elegant Gothic Lolita I definitely get the sense of sweet lolita and Alice in Wonderland as the primary exclusive focus. Even on the cover of old magazines there's a brand with Alice in the name, so surely they must have a heavy emphasis on Alice in Wonderland right?
If the fashion's name should be changed to anything it should be changed to Mana's bitch.
IMO it's not about the specific themes in Alice in Wonderland (tea party, clocks, rabbits, cards, chess, etc), it's about the sense of a lone maiden wandering through a bizarre world she doesn't quite understand but responds to with (mostly) polite Victorian self-confidence. A lot of older Alice comparisons focused on this aspect and it's why the story is still iconic and popular (and so often twisted into edgy or trippy adaptations).
If it was just about having kawaii themes and an old-fashioned European setting it could have been plenty of other stories. Older lolita has a lot of themes of being a lone pure maiden, the world being bizarre/strange/sick, and so on and so forth, from Novala onwards. Alice in Wonderland really chimes with that.
Plus, Alice in Wonderland is pretty popular in Japan generally and has been for a long time. I have no evidence for this whatsoever because I don't know enough about the Japanese education system and availability of Western literature, but I suspect some of the popularity compared to other books like The Secret Garden is probably because there are more Japanese-language versions available and more people have read them and are familiar with the story.
I've never considered the lone maiden idea as a way in which alice in wonder land relates to the fashion, but it's really interesting idea. But we should change the names to Mana's Bitch. and I wear sweet.
Yeah but that's only in English. As far as I can tell, there's no explicit connection between "katyusha" and Alice in Japan. And lolita katyushas don't even look like the hairband that Alice wears in the Disney movie or original Tenniel illustrations.
Headbands are named kachusha after a Tolstoy character, portrayed by a popular Japanese actress. She did not, in fact, wear a headband while in that role, a salesperson made it all up to get sales moving. The sales tactic succeeded so well that headbands are now known as Katyushas.
No link or connection to any kind of Alice anywhere in that story. Not trying to be antagonistic, but at least explain to me how it's synonymous?
Are you really, really new or something? People have been calling them Alice bows for over 15 years. I'm not sure if they were ever called that in Japan (although I've seen plenty of references to head-eating bows being "Alice-like" in Japanese magazines and media), but it's widely known as a synonym.
Just as a head's up, you're replying to two different people.
This took three seconds to find on google, by the way.
It took three seconds to google and yet it still somehow contributes nothing to this conversation. If you can't find evidence that the hairbands were referred to as "Alice bands" or "Alice bows" in Japan, then what it's called in English is completely pointless.
Japanese people started using the term "Alice band" more recently to refer to this kind of headband because it was popularized as "kachusha" in the early 1900's...but this term makes little sense to anyone outside of Japan because of the specific relation to one Japanese theater actress. Basically, they only use it if someone doesn't understand what they're talking about when they say "kachusha" first.
When EGL LJ was still used as a main social media we would get these questions all the time. The one I liked best was when they wanted to call Lolita Victorian Kei. Tbh if it was called Alice fashion it would just feel too cosplay to me. Having to explain to normies that it's a fashion and not a Alice costume just feels like we are going backwards then leaving it Lolita.
iirc i've also heard that one of the inspirations for proto-lolita (what we'd probably call 'natural-kei' or 'granny-kei' today) was Anne of Green Gables, because the book was used in a lot of English-teaching curriculums back in like the 60's and stuff. when you look at it, the stories are sort of similar--isolated heroine weathers bad/weird environment with incessant good manners. coincidence...?
I need your advice anons. Could one of the two dresses in pic related work with an alice theme?
I'd say this one. The first one is nice, but has more of a Marie Antoinette vibe with it. I also think the bodice on this one is much more flattering, especially for a character that is supposed to be childish.
How do you make a non-sax coord still read as "I'm Alice"? (If that makes sense)
Will any alice print + white apron + big headbow do the trick? I'd love to see more inspiration pictures with alternate colors, I'll post a few but they're just dresses not coordinates
I always assumed that at some point in time, a Japanese designer had a great love for old European/American fashion during the days women use to wear fancy gloves, frilly petticoats, and fancy nuances and thought, 'Hey, let's bring it back but prettier.'
That's interesting to know anon, thanks! I always think knowing which English books and films had the highest awareness/popularity in Japan at the time lolita was becoming popular (due to things like easy availability of translations, popularity as a concept for magazine spreads or use in schools) help to explain girls' inspirations for the style a lot, especially since this was back when the internet was a lot smaller/slower than now.
I think this could but you should play up Alice-y themes like teacups jewellery or something with it to emphasise the theme even though you're not wearing solids.
>Will any alice print + white apron + big headbow do the trick?
Usually. Striped socks and mary janes, especially black mary janes are also classic, as does blonde hair. Or you can maybe use Alice-related motifs in jewellery, like "Drink me" bottles. I also liked the way some of the other coords in this thread used Usakumya bags and other rabbit plushies to tie in the white rabbit.
>I always think knowing which English books and films had the highest awareness/popularity in Japan at the time lolita was becoming popular (due to things like easy availability of translations, popularity as a concept for magazine spreads or use in schools) help to explain girls' inspirations for the style a lot
A Japanese lolita once told me that the crossdressing (ouji) and the fact there are both maid and princess influences comes from Rose of Versailles
IDK but this might help:
>Fun fact: the cover girl on Alice Doll is Ruan, now designer of Morun Muuna Stoik
(so looks like it may be hand-made?)
You can see the pic from inside the magazine here, but neither show brands
(It's pretty bizarre how most of Avant Gauche is deleted but some links still work).