Why can't we be like this? I'm not saying "hug itas" (ew), but, where's the subculture aspect of lolita?
>The fashion started at underground music shows in tokyo, where people would dress in black, dance, and sing toghether
But our bands are either dead or only do shows in Japan. Plus, nowadays there is more music related to sweet styles than any other style. I don't know about you, but I can't fucking dance to meltia.
>Walking on the street, being with friends and improvising was a big part of lolita
If we walk on the street and happen to take a simple photo to share with friends, god forbid you. You can't get out unless ALL your pinks match, you stupid fuck. Don't even get me started with sitting on the ground. Not even in Japan people go out to hang out at harajuku anymore. Everything has to be a teaparty now. Everythin must be ott with big ass flowercrowns. We just can't go out to eat some ice cream anymore because we might dirt our dress.
>There's nothing left of a "feeling" of being a lolita
The corrupted girl. The creepy doll. The innocent maiden. I really don't know what to feel about this changing. For once, people are not pretending to be something that they aren't. But our clothes have just become clothes. Anyone can dress in them. Anyone can get the attention and become famous, even if they don't feel like their clothes are a second skin to their soul. So there are more and more girls who dress in lolita because it is flashy and girly and not because they feel 100% connected and related and like they can be themselves when wearing it.
Now some questions:
>What would you change about our subculture?
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
>What would you change about our subculture?
This namby-pamby environment that we've fostered where giving/receiving critiques on what people are wearing is viewed as the absolute worst thing you could ever do to someone. We are first and foremost a fashion community, so fashion ought to be fair game for discussion. I hate that I have to come to the asshole of the internet just so I can say that I didn't like what someone wore very much.
Also I kind of wish VM/MM/older JetJ style classic lolita would be popular instead of the aP/Baby-style pseudo-classic that's been reigning supreme for the past few years. Though this is less about subculture and more fashion trends.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
My comm has done museum and concert meets and they were pretty cool. I want a proper high tea meet though, and maybe a garden party.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
Mostly I feel stuffy and inconveniently massive.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
People taking themselves too seriously and complaining about how lolita culture is dying/superficial/self-absorbed/nitpicky.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I don't really mind to be honest, I'm just glad that shops are easier to access than ever now. And if the community ever does go to shit, going lone lolita is always an option.
>What would you change about our subculture?
People give too many fucks. I know our subculture is mostly online based, but can't you just go out for tea without taking a million pictures and posting them on CoF? Honestly, who gives a shit if one pink is slightly darker than the others? Don't be an ita, but it doesn't have to be perfect.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
I'd like more social events, like go out shopping or to the farmer's market. The meet doesn't have to stay in the same place.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
It depends. I'm usually pretty anxious wearing OTT because I don't like being looked at, but I wear a lot of casual out and about because it makes me feel pretty.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
Less of that weird, one-upping attitude a lot of peope seem to have. You aren't a better lolita because you have the most OTT prop ever and you aren't a better lolita because you wear it every day, even to the gym. Just do what makes you happy.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I feel like daily lolita and conlita groups have split off more and I'd like to see us come together. I don't think it's ever going to happen though, ott lolitas think lifestylers are plain and lifestylers get mad because "not a costume." Maybe as it grows more, an actual subculture will grow out of it and you won't be so shocked to see a group of lolitas outside of a meet. I'd like it to be as big as goth someday. It might lose the intimate feel it has now, but imagine what a dedicated lolita club would be like.
>>9201631
Why did this need to be bumped?
>What would you change about our subculture?
Less focus on matching everything, more experienced girls experimenting in interesting ways with coords
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
Hanging out at the arcade, crafting, even doing groceries with one another. Stuff that's typically fun, but we do it in frills instead.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I feel dolled up and like I have to be very careful in my movements, both so I don't get dirty and so I don't bump into things. When I'm at home, I feel like a princess. Outside, I'm worrying about whether my wig will stay on/my falsies are falling off/etc. I have so much fun though.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
People should focus on bonding with one another more than nitpicking outfits (yes, itas hurt my eyes but they can also be very kind people). Needs to be more room to be messy and creative, both in manner and in style.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I'm newer to the fashion, so I wasn't around during old school. I think it must've been nice to have a smaller online community, and LiveJournal was a cool platform. I like FB but there isn't really room to make friends randomly on it. I love CGL but gulls be salty as fuck.
>>9201667
>doing groceries with one another. Stuff that's typically fun, but we do it in frills instead
Where the fuck do you shop that groceries are fun, anon?!
Other then that I agree with all the rest.
>What would you change about our subculture?
The competitiveness. I feel like it leads to the nitpicking and bitchiness that is way too prevalent. Why does everything have to be a competition for some people? It's a fashion, lighten up.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
Picnics, crafting, watching a movie at a friend's house, basically intimate, more "lifestyle" activities, similar to how it was back in 2008.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I feel like I'm from a different world or era or something - but in a good way.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
Less emphasis on being matchy-matchy or having to impress one another. I like posting on social media, but it's more fun when I don't worry about engagement.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I've been in lolita for a decade and really miss how carefree it used to feel. I've been trying to bring that feeling back in the past few months for myself, and not only has it been fun, but I've also been wearing lolita more often because of it.
>What would you change about our subculture?
Even as a community, we don't feel united. I think that says a lot about the state of lolita, considering we're all adults in pretty dresses. I feel like any sense of lasting community bonds are gone as we scramble to outdo each other and take mass amounts of coord shots. I want to see more people who are able to take (constructive) criticism and dole it out as well. I want to do stuff in lolita together, for the sake of doing stuff in lolita together.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
arcades, book clubs, plays, museums, workshops (learning how to knit or sew something, together)
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I'm dressed daily so I feel no different around the house, but in public I carry myself with more confidence. My head is held higher and I'm numb to anybody giving me a second glance.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
I just want to be friends with fellow lolitas and for some reason it feels difficult now with a lot of girls struggling for e-fame.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I wasn't around for oldschool, but I hope there's some kind of social revival and less emphasis on competition. We all look ridiculous to normies, let's embrace it and have fun.
>>9201096
>>The fashion started at underground music shows in tokyo, where people would dress in black, dance, and sing toghether
>But our bands are either dead or only do shows in Japan. Plus, nowadays there is more music related to sweet styles than any other style. I don't know about you, but I can't fucking dance to meltia.
This is wrong, to start with. Vkei and bandgirls were responsible for the rise of gothic lolita, but lolita predates that. Lolita has never been a music-based subculture, and even at the time people made distinctions from bandgirls cosplaying Mana and actual lolitas.
Also, people do go out to eat ice cream in lolita all the time.
>What would you change about our subculture?
I'd like to see people go back to being more creative and self-sufficient, handmaking accessories or even entire outfits, being a bit more daring with the fashion instead of making sure all your themes/colours/styles match, try some contrast and don't be afraid to stand out. I'm in this as a way to dress for myself without pandering to others, whether they be everyday people or part of the lolita community and imo that's a major part of being a lolita.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
slightly more 'lifestyley' things, like breaking out the bodyline and doing a candy making course, sitting around having a stitch&bitch or going to a fancy cocktail bar for drinks.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
that I can look cute af and have fun without having to worry about people's opinions.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
different name, a little more tolerance from its members, more people wearing lolita more often not just to cons or meets, and a little more creativity.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I hate how modern lolita brands use the nostalgia factor as a selling point for otherwise poorly designed dresses (here's looking at you Baby and AP) and how little effort seems to go into a lot of the prints these days with everything looking clipart'y or crowded, with shit slapped on with no consideration for how the outfit looks overall. i love that modern lolita is using different materials and cuts/techniques but miss the quality and wearability of oldschool.
>What would you change about our subculture?
I wish the community could be less competitive. Sometimes it feels like everything has to be a fucking catfight. Scrambling to be the first to get a new release, to get most likes, to be more OTT, to be skinnier or prettier than the girl who's wearing your dream dress. I wish we could just chill and support each other more. I know it sound stupid mushy and stuff but so many of us have a hard time financially, or we get shit from our loved ones and the general public. We should at least have each other's backs, y'know?
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
>>9201931 pretty much described what I like. I wasn't around for old school (been into this for two and a half maybe three years so I'm a relative newbie) but it all sounds really nice. My comm is big enough to be active but small enough that we all know each other pretty well. We do a lot of this kind of stuff and it's wonderful. I do like fancy events but derping around at home is just so nice. I'm hoping to help host a colouring meet next because so many of us enjoy it.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I feel pretty. I don't necessarily feel like a different person, but there's different sides to everyone. You don't act the same way around your SO that you do your parents, and then your boss, and your friends...I feel like lolita gives me a chance to let a different side of me shine. It also helped me get over social anxiety a little bit. I always felt like people were staring at me. Might as well give them a reason.
>cont.
>>9201972
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
As I mentioned, I wish people would be more supportive of each other. But I think if everyone chilled out a bit, that'd be great. If girls didn't take concrit so personally they probably grow and improve their fashion skills. If we weren't so harsh with itas maybe they would be more willing to listen. Kind of like that.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I don't really know, but it seems to me like there is this race for attention and it's worse than ever before, and that communities are becoming more judgy and uptight about what's proper and what's not (in terms of fancy meets and coords).
Lolita helped me make wonderful friends after managing to not make a single friend in university. My comm is wonderful and supportive and I'm very grateful for it. I was hoping that if/when I have to move I'll be able to make friends thanks to lolita, but I'm worried that I won't be accepted anywhere else the way I was here (I prefer simpler coords, and I have a kid, and so many people seem to despise both...). That's more of a personal thing, but yeah. Basically, I hope that we can at least stay welcoming and such to newcomers and spread the love.
>>9201096
>Everything has to be a teaparty now.
>We just can't go out to eat some ice cream anymore because we might dirt our dress.
I don't know what planet you're living on but most lolitas do have casual outings with their friends for lunch and shopping.
>But our clothes have just become clothes. Anyone can dress in them.
Sounds like you're complaining that lolita fashion isn't your super special secret club for special snowflakes.
>Anyone can get the attention and become famous, even if they don't feel like their clothes are a second skin to their soul.
This is honestly the most pretentious thing I have hear in months. It's a fashion. Stop taking it so damn seriously.
>So there are more and more girls who dress in lolita because it is flashy and girly and not because they feel 100% connected and related and like they can be themselves when wearing it.
God forbid someone wears a fashion because they like how it looks. Stop trying to make shit deeper than it is; these are clothes and we all choose to wear them because we like how they look.
>What would you change about our subculture?
We shouldn't take ourselves so seriously. I miss the LJ days where we could make random posts and everyone would just join in and reply. I also miss those meetup posts that were in a story format. Like with meetup pictures and text about each photo underneath. Everything was less structured and it felt more like a club where we got together and discussed frilly cute things.
In the same vein, but I think most of you will disagree, I don't like how now it's all about ~educating the world~ about lolita. I liked that groups us would get together and wear frilly dresses. If normies knew about us then they got it and if not they were just confused. It was like a secret club where not everyone was invited. Or to be invited you had to do some research. Now we have kawaii ambassadors and documentaries about the fashion. Girls in my comm will go on explaining everything to anyone that gives us the slightest of odd looks.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
I like the meets where there isn't really anything planned in particular. Like maybe we just do a bit of shopping and then hit up some cute cafe in the spur of the moment.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I feel really fucking cute.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
I wish things were less structured and there was more room for creativity (and I don't mean ita).
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I like how lolita's grown with me as I've gotten older. I started out in 2009 where everything was super bright OTT sweet. Now things are softer and a little more mature. I like both styles.
>>9201631
Don't do that again.
>>9201910
I heard that an U.S. grocery chain is upping their game with things like wine bars, and I guess in bigger cities are cute markets worth going to, but I wonder if anon is thinking more along the lines of treating lolita more like a fashion to regularly go out of the house in, rather than something to wear for a fancy meetup every once in a while?
I guess this sort of thing can work for farmer's markets or if you're with close friends in the comm preparing for a bake/tea at home meet?
>>9201981
>Girls in my comm will go on explaining everything to anyone that gives us the slightest of odd looks.
>implying this didn't happen ten years ago
>>9201931
>The competitiveness. I feel like it leads to the nitpicking and bitchiness that is way too prevalent.
I think nitpicking and bitchiness is a separate issue from the competitiveness. I'm nitpicky as fuck but I'm not competitive at all, and it's kind of spoiling my fun at meets. Competitive girls can at least get a kick out of being better-dressed than other girls, but personally I just feel kind of embarrassed having to hang out with itas, even when they're nice girls. It's hard enough interacting with the public without ita hot messes making the whole group look even weirder.
>>9201096
>Why can't we be like this?
I'm under the impression everyone on 4chan hates everything, but /cgl/ in general is more spiteful. People should just chill the fuck out more. It's probably my creeping age talking.
>What would you change about our subculture?
More meets in my local area, more attention to handmade, more forgiving/explaining stuff to teenagers wearing replica.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
Boats. Sailing. Seaside picknicks. Museum visits, especially old manors.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I am a cute-ass little sailor and I am a girly, motherfuckingly adorable little cadette who can man the guns.
Or just, I am the victorian little girl on an adventure. I am very pretty and girly in a way I actually like, as opposed to boring un-cute normalfag stuff.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
More sailor lolita. More focus on lifestyle stuff, more blogging about stuff that makes us feel lolita, like Edwardian books, locations with countryside/old buildings, horseriding, and period movies. Also iron ships and more lolita on boats.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I miss the blogging and lifestyle stuff, but I love where classical and sweet have gone, style-wise. I love the subdued things that are not the darn pink overload from the days of OTT sweet.
To be perfectly honest, the vibe I get in my comm is completely different than the vibe on cgl and online in general. I think the big problem is just simply the disconnect between the behavior online and the behavior in person. It makes everything seem fake and forced because no one knows what the genuine feeling is.
Thus, I think that this issues of this hobby as a subculture will always remain so long as online presence remains. In fact, it's probably only going to get worse from here on out.
I've taken to just thinking of my comm (or in person meets in general) and online comms as two distinct entities with two distinct sets of rules because the disconnect is way too jarring any other way.
>>9202420
Yes - online comms, for example, are extremely anti-replica, but I've never been in an IRL comm where people would give a girl shit for it to her face, even though some of them are very vocally against replicas online.
>>9201096
I'm a lone lolita and I definitely consider lolita a subculture. A subculture can be based around fashion as the main thing, that doesn't make it less of a subculture than punk.
As a teenager I used to hang out with other lolita's at visual kei shows, but those girls have stopped wearing lolita. I decorate my living space with gothic and lolita in mind. I have gothic architecture books because I liked Moitie's prints so much, and art books of higuchi yuko and sakizo, artists I wouldn't have known about if it wasn't for lolita. I can't wear lolita at work but I wear it at least twice a week, because I feel it is 'me'. When I'm not wearing lolita or something lolita-inspired I feel less like myself. But even if you don't often wear lolita, there is still a subculture. I know 'conlita' is seen as something negative, but this is also part of our subculture. We have communities that organize meet-ups and tea party's, this is very unique to lolita. I consider the secondhand market, having dream dresses and that kind of stuff part of the subculture as well, perhaps less unique but still.
>>9201096
>We just can't go out to eat some ice cream anymore because we might dirt our dress.
I don't agree with anything you've said except this. The girls in my comm are really difficult to please when it comes to meets. We can't have meet-ups to the beach, because we'd get dirty and sandals are ita. Someone tried to organize a meet to an alice in wonderland exhibition at a library, and it was cancelled because the library was a 15 minute walk from the station, apparently that's too much when you're wearing tea parties. You also can't plan a meet-up less than 5 weeks in advance because people will bitch that they don't have enough time to plan their coord.
>What would you change about our subculture?
Basically what I said above. I want to plan casual meets without it being a big deal and without having to sit at a restaurant (or something similar) the whole time.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
concerts, markets, visit nice old villages
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I just feel like normal?
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
The people who treat lolita as if you should always be ready to be part of a photoshoot. Not everyone is dressing to be on the cover of Kera. And sometimes less is more.
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I don't really like oldschool but I would like to see more simple coords and less wigs. And less accessories! Legwear, headwear and armwear okay, but it's too busy to wear a necklace, rings, bracelet ánd earrings on top of that.
>>9204747
newfag
>>9204744
I like you anon. I feel like we would've gotten along well had we been in the same comm.
>What would you change about our subculture?
I want to do more casual hanging out in lolita.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
Classical music concerts, museum tours, sewing circles, historical village walks
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I feel energetic and peppy.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
Stop giving messy bitches who just want to complain and make drama out of nothing attention. I like the internet for lolita in that it's so easy to get items and find inspiration, but what do I care that some asshole on the other side of the planet is a diva?
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I like the styles more, but I don't like how there aren't very many recent lolita street snaps. I feel like general harajuku kei is the only thing that gets that attention anymore. I don't really know where we're going. I hope enough employed lolitas will step it up and have better outing meets.
>>9202420
>the vibe I get in my comm is completely different than the vibe on cgl
Most people don't go on cgl tough? it would be much more active if they did. I believe there's only a handful of people from my comm that comes here.
>>9202428
This has nothing to do with lolita, it's normal human behaviour.
>>9204750
Cgl is a slow board, people do not need to bump a thread. This is retarded.
>>9204762
....You didn't read the entire sentence my friend.
>To be perfectly honest, the vibe I get in my comm is completely different than the vibe on cgl and online in general
>online in general
I feel like one of the biggest disconnects for lolita as a subculture is the huge difference between sweet lolitas and the other two substyles.
For instance, an ideal date for each one:
Sweet - boba milk tea, arcade, purikura
Classic - high tea, museum tour, crafting
Gothic - wine tasting, concert, occult activities
Of course, there is certainly some crossover (who doesn't love high tea?) and I can easily see how a Gothic and a Classic lolita could get along, but Sweet lolitas are just their own thing entirely, aesthetic-wise. I apologize if my post treads on the "lolita is just clothes I wear! I actually swear and smoke and spit!" types. Maybe it's just my personal bias as a Classic lolita but I never feel like I can connect with a Sweet as much as I can others.
>>9204811
This ignores that a lot of people wear more than one style, though. Granted, even when people wear multiple style's there's often a common thread (say person A wearing OTT sweet, sweet-classic, hime and person B wearing aristo/goth, classic in jewel tones, and oldschool), if only for convenience in building a wardrobe, but they're not as intensely tied to personal taste as people think.
A friend of mine wears both sweet and gothic (gothic gothic, not just Holy Lantern sweet gothic shit), and her personal taste and room decor is a mixture of spoopy stuff and weebshit. Most of the lolitas I know, like most people I know, like sweet things and desserts. I wear classic the least often out of all the styles I wear, but I'm really into history, architecture and nature. I wear gothic a lot but I have no interest in occult and horror things, wine or metal. There probably is a relation between preferred aesthetic and taste in hobbies, but it's nowhere near as clear-cut as people make out.
>>9204811
Realised I basically didn't answer your question, but yeah, kawaii culture is it's whole aesthetic and thing and interest thing that a lot of sweet lolitas are into, but I think that's more to do with age than anything. A lot of the younger classic and gothic lolitas I know are also really into plushies and anime and jpop and sweets and whatever, whereas a lot of the girls pushing 30 who wear OTT sweet would love a wine-tasting.
>>9204811
Whenever someone would mention how they love a Jane Austin movie and the idea of going to a museum and other activities, it always kind of baffled me. How does something like classic literature fit with a girl who's super sweet and loves Sailor Moon and Sanrio characters? What about a gothic lolita who loves the occult and would rather watch a Tim Burton movie?
>>9204811
Idk I'm a gothic lolita who does all the things on your sweet lolita list, buys cute makeup for packaging, and loves plush toys so I don't think that's necessarily true.
>>9204811
I'm a sweet Lolita who likes edgy concerts, astrology, taxidermy, virology, and a whole bunch of gothic shit
pls stop judging someone's personality and activities they enjoy by the type of Lolita they wear any day now
>>9204811
>>9204830
I mean, one of the nice things about lolita is that it's way less anal than the Western goth scene about having a compulsory lifestyle to go with your clothes. Even in the oldschool days when there was a heavier lifestyle element, I still don't feel like there was as much elitist wank as in the goth community because the Japanese goth scene was already more aesthetic-only and divorced from context than the Western scene. I personally like the fact that I can enjoy gothic clothing and aesthetics without having to be a trugoff 100% of the time.
>What would you change about our subculture?
Social media has had a huge impact on a lot of niche hobbies. I'm going to lump lolita into a hobby for a second here, because it's effected cosplay in a very similar way. Even though the two really aren't connected and lolita may strictly be a fashion to others while also a hobby/fashion to different people. But similar to cosplay, everyone believes that in order to do it right or to "pull it off" you have to look a certain way. You have to be pretty, you have to be extremely thin, at one time you had to wear brand, now it seems like you have to wear it daily in order to even be doing it right. The internet and avenues for cattiness such as /cgl/, btbs, etc has resulted in the desire to pursue e-fame as well as the fear to do anything or post anything if it's not picture perfect. I hate to say it, but we've all made our beds, time to lie in it.
>What kind of events would you like to attend aside of tea parties?
I enjoy going to museums, going shopping, having lunch with some other friends in the fashion. Tea parties are really fun, but I only go to a handful of them.
>What's the feeling you get when wearing lolita, if any at all?
I feel like for a moment, I'm able to express a part of myself that I don't get to normally. I work a lot, usually 50 hours a week, sometimes I don't get my days off. I feel like a missing part of me has returned. I feel really happy and cute for awhile.
>What would you improve in our subculture in general?
Stop being asshats to eachother. Call out the armchair lolitas. Do you even wear red!?
>Comparing to the oldschool era, do you like where lolita is, and where do you think we are heading?
I like the vast variety of options to wear these days. If you like sweet but it doesn't suit you, there are avenues to go down that don't involve wearing pastel pink. There's a lot of things to collect, a lot of places to get really great things. But the community has really killed it.
>>9205005
Virology is some cool shit man. Nice to know another sweet lolita that likes it.
>>9202388
>Lolita on a boat
I like you, anon
I know that lolita is a conservative fashion, but i really hate all the slut-shaming in the community. I don't think a lot of lolitas who do that realize that there are plenty of us who like to go scantily-clad in our regular day to day wear that isn't lolita. It doesn't mean I lack self respect. On the contrary, I work hard to maintain my appearance through exercise and diet and I'm proud of myself. I'm also in a highly competitive and professional field, so I'm not some dumb bimbo. At best, it comes off as ignorance, and at worst it seems like bitter jealousy. Human beings are multifaceted, and sometimes I dress conservatively while other times I don't.
>>9204811
Ah maybe it's because I am oldschool sweet but I feel like I connect more with the classic lolitas of my comm interest wise. Though it could also be an age thing as well since it seems that the older girls all group together.
>>9205177
Finding out there's another sweet Lolita that shares my weird interest made my day. Thank you anon!
>>9204811
idk man, i think that we can get along a lot better than you think. people's interests don't have to be compartmentalized based on their age/what style they wear. i'm pastel vomit going to school to be a forensic entomologist. i get where you're going, but things aren't as cut and dry as that. sweet lolitas can get along with the other styles just as well (as long as the specific lolita in question isn't a total bitch). some of us just happen to like cutesy things in addition to other things.
>>9201096
Lolita is already a subculture. I'm sorry you can't see that. You sound really pretentious btw.
To the people complaining about nitpicking, competitiveness or bitchiness in lolita, do you not know where you are? This is cgl! Not all lolita's are cunts, but this is where you'll find them. If you can't take that, go to tumblr and facebook. If you want less OTT, go to livejournal.
>>9205467
This was such a constructive and helpful comment that added so much to an actually interesting dialogue that was very clearly discussing beyond cgl. Thank you so much for this pearl of wisdom that the problems with lolita ONLY exist in cgl and all we need to do is go elsewhere and NEVER see the problems. Revolutionary advice!
>>9205534
Who is Jenna...?
>>9205196
>>9205005
>>9204997
>>9204830
Ah, so I will fully admit that I was under no circumstances, in belief that our hobbies outside of lolita reflect the substyles we choose to wear. I chose to say that in order to ... I'd like to refrain from using the word but I will anyways, bait people into saying things along the line of, "Well, I am an X lolita who likes Y and Z, and no X things at all!"
The purpose of this was to explain my actual theory of why we don't have a subculture and that is because our community at this point is almost exclusively interested in the aesthetics of the fashion. There's nothing wrong with that but if you aren't interested in pursuing hobbies with similar aesthetics, groupings, or however you would like to put it, there just won't be a subculture.
The only shared subculture we have at this point is a interest in tea parties, online shopping, and our clothing. I'm not one for romanticizing the girls of the past with "lovely lolita lifestyle princess blog posts" but they seemed like they were really truly interested in incorporating lolita and lolita related aspects into all parts of their life (beyond aesthetic purposes), including their hobbies that weren't literally dressing in Lolita.
>>9204811
I'm a sweet lolita who likes all of the activities listed for all the substyles.
>But our clothes have just become clothes. Anyone can dress in them. Anyone can get the attention and become famous, even if they don't feel like their clothes are a second skin to their soul. So there are more and more girls who dress in lolita because it is flashy and girly and not because they feel 100% connected and related and like they can be themselves when wearing it.
Why is this such a problem? I'm a lifestyler, but I don't get what's so bad about some people wearing it just as a fashion. I mean, the people who say it's absolutely not a lifestyle at all and just a fashion are annoying and don't know what they're talking about to a painful degree, but not everyone who just wears it as a fashion is like that. Honestly, I like the diversity, if the community was only lifestyles it would be so obnoxious.
>>9206110
I know people were jumping all over you, but their responses kind of prove the point. we all can think of "goth type activities" and goth music, which is what pushes traditional gotha into a subculture, not just a fashion. sure, some gotha might like other things or not love all the "goth" things from that particular subculture, but it is assumed to be the standard for the goth culture.
lolitas? it's just about the clothes. people don't come to gothic lolita necessarily because they want to get married in a cursed graveyard and more than sweet Lolita's find the fashion because they like boba tea and plushies. they /can/, but it's not a culture. and the fact that Lolitas often jump between aesthetics probably emphasize that even more. maybe if each subgroup bloomed out of a specific segmented culture it could work, but at this point it's all aesthetics and too many bridges to force people to gap.
>>9209280
to me, that just strikes me as a hobby. at that point, would I call cosplaying a subculture because they go to cons and talk about cosplaying a bunch online? there's obviously shared experiences and interests over all... but I don't think that's what OP was talking about
>>9205448
>not wanting a challenge with your pathogens
??
???
??
>>9209257
I don't think you need that much to be a subculture. Maybe our definitions differ... We have words that are 'ours', teaparty's, meet-ups (usually on sundays, just like how lolita's in harajuku used to meet on sunday), lolita-inspired art, handmade, the secondhand market, a shitload of groups for discussion etc. Then there are lifestylers and conlita's that I imagine on different sides of the 'lolita subculture spectrum'. I mean... Even bronies are considered a subculture.
>>9201115
>so fashion ought to be fair game for discussion
more often than not, they're insults rather than constructive criticism.
>>9211132
That's because this place is full of trolls and jealous people who don't wear lolita
>>9201133
>group of lolitas
Would that not be considered a meet?
>>9205161
What the hell are you talking about what the fuck is a "goth community" as someone who grew up with goth and punk and has had many friends in those subcultures I have never heard of a goth community is this just tumblr posers or real world people there are club scenes and when you grow up with a particular subculture you all end up in the same circles but the thought of goth comms is ridiculous to me
I live in a city and I could round up a gang of goths in a couples of hours and everyone of them will be a unique person with their own likes, dislikes and personalities because they are PEOPLE or do you think all goths drink their spouses blood and hang themselves on hooks
>>9211139
I think most of the online lolitas are just observers they blast others for minor imperfections when they dont have the balls to even try it themselves
>>9201115
In the same post, you lamented that you have to go to the "asshole of the internet" to post criticisms and also that people are calling lolita superficial and nitpicky. Do you realize where these two perceptions collide?
>>9205180
Your first sentence is relevant to this topic. The rest is more of a not very interesting personal blog.
I think lolita can be many things to many people with the more like-minded people gathering in smaller groups online and regionally. We shouldn't be so afraid to host private meets and exclude some people we don't have things in common with just because we are all members of a fashion group in the same city.
Myself, I'd like to see a few things:
I'd like an over 18 private online discussion group for actual lolitas only, armchair and wanna-be's excluded. No membership unto you show a well-done full coord.
I'd like more con activities that are beyond lolita 101 panels.
I'd like an online update group that was Japan-only brand releases. I think some accessories and niche things get overlooked in the wall of taobao that is Lolita Updates.
Locally, we attend a variety of events so I appreciate that. I also travel to events.
I feel like a princess when dressed in Lolita.
I think we are headed two directions. A return to oldscool feeling things more and more and then another road that is more accepting of innovation. Both are fine.
>>9211348
I also agree with this so I don't trust anything said unless the poster has her proof she's a decently dressed lolita. Too many people freely post opinions, advice even but don't actually wear this fashion. Several have admitted to it. I feel a bit sorry for them but I really wish they would go away.