Gothic Lolita Thread

it's usually good 4chan etiquette to start off threads like this with a small dump of your own, anon

>>9090833
Can we discuss gothic vs. kuro?
I still think kuro coords are still somewhat gothic even if they have some sweet elements.

>>9090869
Kuro relates to color only though, not style. For a coord to be kuro it has to be entirely black and that's it, and black doesn't necessarily mean gothic.

>>9090869
I have worn sweet kuro, multi-bow shoes, bell shaped jsk covered in beading lace and bows with waist ties, a bonnet with bows and roses, black Baby frilly parasol. Not gothic at all. Kuro just means an all black coord but it can be any style depending on the elements.

>>9090869
I think as long as kuro is relatively neutral, it can pass for gothic. I think it's important to say when you go into mostly solid color coords without obvious motifs, it becomes more ambiguous and the overall "feel" should be taken into consideration more than the colors.
If someone has gothic styled makeup, but is wearing a solid AP JSK that isn't very sweet, I think that could pass as gothic.

>>9090910
Depends on the shoes and accessories at that point. Bow shoes and a Peter Pan blouse with puffy sleeves, even in all black will get labeled sweet by people who don't have the 'it's black, must be goffic mindset. The whole coord needs to follow a more gothic style not just a less sweet ap dress with gothic makeup, for me to think it is a good gothic coord. And don't get me wrong, I like kuro cords and gothic lolita but too many just assume kuro can stand in for gothic just because it is black. There are many jewel tones and prints used in gothic and if you use a plain black main piece with everything else black, it still needs to be styled in a gothic way, not just be black.

>>9090869
In my opinion it's about motifs
Roses, crosses/Catholic imagery, coffins, skulls, other symbols of death, etc. steer it towards gothic while hearts, lots of bows, stars, cutesy animals, etc. steer it towards sweet

>>9090910
That's applying old school terms to modern lolita. Old school gothic lolita was a much more defined style. I don't believe kuro even exists anymore. A black coordinate is just gothic or classic now, but I guess if you wanna be nostalgic you can call it "kuro" but I doubt it's the first term that comes to most peoples minds anymore.

>>9090854
sorry, i went somewhere right after i made this thread

>>9090939
Kuro coordinates have no motifs unless they are black on black. It is a pure black coordinate.

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>>9090964
>A black coordinate is just gothic or classic now

>>9090964
There are several kuro wardrobes posted every year and active lolitas who make kuro (and shiro) coordinates. It's not as common as it used to be but its not an 'old-school' either. If you make a kuro coord with a brand new black jsk, a chiffon hime blouse and a chiffon underskirt that is not old-school. Nor is it gothic. It would lean Classic in style.

>>9090964
What about >>9090878 and their example of sweet and kuro. Add a puff sleeve blouse with Peter Pan collar.

>>9090964
You could make a very edgy and punk style kuro coord with an asymmetrical skirt, plain black h.Naoto blouse, bondage gear and RH boots or Docs and black fishnets. Kuro never really was a huge thing and it's still not but its a very unique and distinctive thing that is still done.

>>9090923
I still see what you described somewhat gothic, probably because I was a goth long before I was a lolita and there's many "sweeter" goth styles. I see a bow that is black as a gothic bow and a black heart as a gothic heart. If that makes sense.

>>9091026
I don't think you actually have an understanding of the differences between classic/sweet/gothic lolita, anon.

>>9091044
Look I'm one of those ancient lolitas and I know how community likes to categorize styles, okay? Are we on the same page?
HOWEVER; in my opinion even just being black adds a gothy feel to stuff. Think more like normie fashion. Black hair is more gothic than blonde hair or brown hair or orange hair by nature. Or think about horror movies and little creepy girl dresses. Or oldschool lolita. Oldschool lolita doesn't count as gothic and uses sweet themes like bows, ruffles, hearts but its aim is to look like a porcelain doll which is something creepy and gothic by nature.

>>9091077
>gaiz I've totally been a Lolita for forever
>j-just cause I don't know the difference between gothic and sweet doesn't mean I'm n-not!

> in my opinion even just being black adds a gothy feel to stuff

You're an idiot.

>>9091091
>I dont have a logical argument!!!

Okay, whatever.

>>9091097
You are saying even if something has gigantic sweet style bows everywhere on it and most elements are sweet, it feels gothic just because it is black. And you back this up by saying it's because black feels "gothy" to you.

My argument is you are talking out of your ass, anon. The difference in style(sweet/gothic/classic) for Lolita isn't based on color, I don't know how you are unaware of that.

>>9091077
Your opinion and commonly understood Lolita definitions of things are definitely not on the same page as at least a few of us have demonstrated by example. Pulling your 'ancient Lolita' or 'b'cuz goff' cards aren't going to help you when the rest of the Lolita world mostly is not on your page with these definitions. You have been given concrete examples of sweet, classic and punk kuro, all fitting both their sub style and the kuro definition, and clearly not gothic, what about these is unclear?

>>9091106
But anon she's totes been in Lolita since the beginning of time and we should bow to her definitions as they are superior.

>>9091103
Wasting our breath here, I'm afraid. I get it and was trying to provide examples <from my own closet> but obviously she doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it. My guess is that she is bored OP, or not actually wearing Lolita fashion, just has opinions about things.

>>9091044
>>9091091
>>9091103
diffrent anon but do you realize anon is aware of how lolita styles categorised right. he/she is only saying he/she is not satisfied with this categorization and i think they may have some point about old school being gothic without needing gothic elements.

also what do you think is the reason behind this diffrence between normie gothic and lolita gothic?

>>9091103
Look, I'm an older than average (as in age) lolita and occasionally I do like things frilly and sweet. One of the ONLY dignified ways I have found to wear it and not feel like I'm dressing too young or such is to style a kuro coordinate. So yes, I really do know what I am talking about in that there is absolutely such a thing as a sweet styled kuro coordinate that is not gothic. It's hanging in my closet. In several coordinates worth of pieces.

>>9091106
I think you are confused. Those examples were given by me actually I'm not the OP.

>>9091123
>diffrent anon but do you realize anon is aware of how lolita styles categorised righ
I honestly don't think that's the case. This is someone who says if an item is black it is automatically more "gothy".


>>9091124
You just said a while back a black coord is either classic or gothic. Can you really not remember what happened less than a day ago?

>age wise

How the fuck is this relevant to what we are discussing at all? I don't need you to blog your life's story to try and get a point across, it's not working.

You still clearly don't understand the differences between the sub styles of Lolita.

>>9091123
The reason is because they arise from not only different sources but different cultures half a world away from each other. I think gothic Lolita is as heavily influenced by rococo and VK as from Western Goth. Mix those elements together and gothic Lolita is very different than western goth.

>>9091133
Topkek anon go home you are drunk

>>9091140
How? All of my points are valid and have remained consistent. Unlike the other anon who can't even remember what they just said.

>>9091137
Actually lolita and western goth have some similar influences. Like victorian era. Victorian era child's clothings and porcelain dolls like anon said upthread.

>>9091133
I'm not the one that said they had to be classic or gothic.
This thread is fast becoming chaotic and contains some clearly unskilled Lolita opinions that need to learn but unfortunately seem to just want to argue. Not my thing, I prefer a nice low key discussion with simple respect and information exchange with examples to back the info up. I don't give any weight to the argument 'because it feels goth to me' over what the rest of the Lolita community at large thinks and more argument despite repeated examples.
Peace out.

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Holy fucking shit, I just wanted to scroll through an inspiration thread. This is why we can't have nice things.

>>9091146
>ragequitting this hard

>>9091142
Because they are diffrent anons. You don't even know who you are answering to. Please stop.

>>9091151
>summering this hard

>>9091152
>Please stop

First off, just because you want someone to stop doing something that you disagree with doesn't mean they will stop. Grow up.

Secondly, I suppose it's my bad for assuming they were the same person but to be fair it's rare that two people are this level of stupid. Two people who can't comprehend the basics of Lolita styles on /cgl/? Not as likely as one idiot who keeps replying.

>>9091146
I think you are missing OP's point. Your argument of "frills and bows feeling sweet" is not more based than OP's argument. Color itself indeed counts as a fashion element and black is a color with gothic connotations for sure. It can be safely said a black coordinate with sweet elements carries contrasting elements.

>>9091103
This is why you get new lolitas wearing the 3 bow shoes with a super spooky look and going 'whaaaaat, it's gofffff because blaaaaack' oh and 'because DOLL'.
Nope

>>9091167
So shapes and themes are not as important in dictating a style as color? Are you serious? Because if you are you are either mentally challenged or new to Lolita.

>>9091169
And that's why I think these anons are just new and talking out of their asses.

>>9091161
I'm not sure if you are baiting or you are so salty it makes impossible for you to comprehend. Either way you look like an idiot.

>>9091172
I look like an idiot? I'm not the one claiming something is gothic just because it's black.

>>9091171
>not as important

Wut? Where did I say that exactly?

All I'm saying is you cant disregard color when diffrentiating style. A pastel pink and a muted pink are not the same, why would black and pink would be?

>>9091167
Dresses are categorized by style in Lolita before color. A black AP dress with sweet motifs on it is sweet. A black plain AP dress with sweet detailing on it is sweet. Whether it is mint or black. If black = goth then what about shiro goth? It has no black yet it's goth.

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>>9091179
You were responding to my point of themes/shapes being the main differences in lolita. Not once did I disregard color, I just said it was absolutely stupid to say something is automatically "gothy" because it is black.

>A pastel pink and a muted pink are not the same, why would black and pink would be?

I'm not saying that either, but all of those can be sweet or classic so using it as a point is stupid. You can have pastel classic just like you can have black sweet.

Or are you trying to defend the anon saying pic related is gothic just because it's black??

>>9091171
I fear you are correct because they (or she) just isn't making sense. No matter how we personally view something, if there is already consensus in the vocabulary and understanding of terms, we use them in context. Only new or very young do not know how to do this and cite opinion over and over like this with no examples or basis.

Well a few perma-itas but even they know better really and are just stubborn and not this ignorant.

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I'm gonna post some inspiration before this thread gets too derailed.

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>>9091193

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>>9091195

>>9091185
Very good example. A non-lolita who has mall goth dresses might see this as gothic but any experienced lolita immediately thinks 'wow, so sweet everything' when they see this.

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>>9091196

>>9091173
You can't even distinguish different people in the thread. Why would anyone trust you about distinguishing styles?

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>>9091199

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>>9091203

>>9091200
I don't give a fuck who I'm replying to, if someone is stupid I'm going to call them stupid. You are desperately clinging to a non topic related point to try and paint me as in the wrong when I'm clearly not. Did I make a mistake and assume the idiots babbling on about black making things gothic was the same person? Sure, but who cares?

Just because I don't look into posts as possibly being different posters on an anonymous image board doesn't mean my eye for knowing the differences in styles is impacted. Grow up.

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>>9091207
Ending my dump here. Now please stop bitching, everyone.

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>>9091206

>>9091185
something being gothy doesn't mean it is straight up gothic. an object can carry both sweet and gothic qualities without being either.

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>>9091211

>>9091212
Black =/= gothy.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. The pic I posted is a perfect example of my point of something that is clearly very sweet with no gothic influence that is black.

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>>9091214

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>>9091216

>>9091209
But anon... The two anon you confused were saying completely opposite things... Otherwise no one would notice. Honestly calm your tits get some sleep or something. Jesus.

>>9091212
Goth-y is not a term commonly used in lolita fashion at all, mainly because, you guessed it, it's completely subjective and easy to confuse with an established substyle we DO define as Gothic Lolita.
Gothy sounds like a term a noob would use to describe their hell bunny dress as a Lolita main piece.

>>9091203
"Hello AP Mercator bunny and bear. I know you are one of the defining hallmarks of an AP sweet dress but because you are on a black background here and you might feel 'Gothy' to someone, today you are magically Gothic."
No.

>>9091223
One post said something that contradicted the previous posts, and I assumed it was the same person because if it wasn't there was literally no need for the post. It was vapid and gave nothing towards either argument.

Once again, I'm not sure why one mistake of mine is so important to you.

>>9091215
>>9091224
How about hybrid coords? You can't deny there isn't such a thing as hybrid coords. How about posting some sweetxgothic hybrid coords and explaining the difference between sweetxgothic and black sweet?

>>9091234
You need that explained to you? Looks like I have to repeat myself.

Are you new or mentally deficient?

>>9091234
Because most of us are busier with our own style and wardrobes than these kinds of discussions (because they rarely result in anything but agreeing to disagree at best) and usually the only people who sit around picking those nits are people who are new or who don't actually dress lolita so want to have things to say.

>>9091241
So because someone has an opinion that they want to express for whatever reason they are new or aren't really a lolita? Are you high?

>>9091237
>tfw this is my first post in the thread

>>9091234
Post some concrete photo examples of what you are talking about and outline their points.

>>9091244
Right, but answer the question.

>>9091231
How about you shut the fuck up and contribute some pictures if you know so goddamn much about gothic lolita?

>>9091252
>this mad

Anon calm down. Mercator is sweet but you don't have to shit yourself about it.

>>9091256
Like I said, post pictures then if you know so much.

>>9091258
I'm not the anon you responded to. I just worry for your health, your blood pressure must be sky high.

>>9091248
I don't see you pointing out any differences between sweet-gothic hybrid and black sweet.

>>9091261
I shouldn't have to spoon feed you the obvious.

>>9091260
My blood pressure will be lower once people actually start posting inspiration pictures.

>>9091247
>Post some concrete photo examples of what you are talking about and outline their points.

Are you high? You are the one who claim they are two different styles.

>>9091267
You can't rely on other people to help your health anon. Help yourself. It'll be okay.

>>9091265
>argues for hours on a silly topic
>can't respond to a simple question
>muh spoonfeedin!!

>>9091272
I refer you to my previous posts about themes and shapes. If you can't figure it out from there you should probably kill yourself, it must be miserable being that incapable of thought.

>>9091252
But that's such a great example already. Can't you just FEEL the goth-y-ness of that cute little bunny and teddy bear on the front?

>>9091275
Clearly kawaii animals are the most gothic thing ever.

>>9091278
Ikr? <the chills>

>>9091274
Aww I feel sorry for you anon. I bet you don't even wear lolita, nice backing out after spreading salt like that. salty/10

>>9091285
>I bet you don't even wear Lolita

Based on what? Your fee fees being hurt?

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>>9091275
Quick: Gothic or sweet?

>>9091291
clusterfuck

>>9091291
Badly done, costumey mashup of both. Isn't a good example of either nor does it stand on its own style merit.

>>9091287
Do you? Post pics then. If you trust yourself this much you must be such an inspiration. Please let your light shine on us itas and newfags eh?

>>9091291
The image title defines it well, actually.
Tumblr.
Enough said.

>>9091297
>post pics of myself on 4chan because someone I am arguing with tells me to

You can't be serious.

inb4 >hurr ur not real lowleeta cause u won't give me pics of u >.<

I wear it but I'm not obligated to give you any pictures of myself.

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>>9091292
>>9091296
SWEET OR GOTHIC

>>9091302
Badly done.

>>9091300
>I'm not obligated to give you any pictures of myself.

Then don't be sad if I don't regard your precious opinions more than next door lolita at heart ita's. You can shove them up to your ass if anything.

>>9091302
Off brand crap?
Seriously, it's not a full coord so with accessories or styling could probably be worn either way.
It's ugly though for largely that reason, not enough of either elements to really be either so just hangs badly in between. A common off brand problem.
See Rouge Aerie.

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>>9091304
sweet or gothic

>>9091307
Very pretty gothic. Nice because the bonnet can also be worn with sweet but is formal enough for gothic. I like this.

>>9091310
I won't be, don't worry sweet-cheeks.

>you can shove them up your ass

Only if you help.

>>9091314
You can't even tell if this is Lolita or not. We can't see half of the coord.

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>>9091313
sweet or gothic?

>>9091314
Not a full coord so I'd wait to see the whole thing. Could be either with what is shown or also maybe oldschool as well. This is why we use full length pictures for these discussions, which most people besides newbies know.

>>9091313
How come that is not a full coord? I'm sick of this OTT faggotry.

>>9091321
Post full coord photos with all the elements showing. At this point it could have pumpkin pants and even be ouji.

>>9091327
Well for starters we can't even see the bottom half of it you nitwit.

>>9091327
No jewelry, no bag, can't see leg wear or shoes. No one says it has to be ott but this would get concrit regardless for lack of any visible accessories. They can be plain, just not missing.

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>>9091307

>>9091324
>>9091328
>>9091329
Contribute full mishmash coords yourself then. I'm not on my computer and google images only helps this much.

>>9091334
Oldschool gothic. I like it. Strong motifs and lets the jsk motif shine but has balance as well.

>>9091339
Why should I? You failed in your task so why do I have to do your job for you?

>>9091291
this is so cute

>>9091339
That's just it, there aren't many good mishmashes because it's not really a thing or you'd be finding lots, ya? That's what we've been saying all along.

>>9091345
Ita is cute? What?

>>9090869
Not even slightly.

Lurk more, you sound like the dummies on CoF calling their coords gothic when it's a mishmash of styles in black colorways and clashes horrible

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>>9091334

>>9091339
Cries: it's a thing, it's a thing.

After searches cries: where's the thing, where's the thing?

We smile.
Perhaps it's not SUCH a thing.
Perhaps.

>>9091347
Saying where? I read whole thread, didn't see anything like that.

>>9091356
Maybe you just severely lack reading comprehension?

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>>9091352

>>9091354
Lol I never said it is a thing though.

>>9091365
Someone in the thread demanded examples of it.

>>9091345
It IS cute.
For Halloween.
3/10 would ask them to remove the wings for a con tea meet. So it's not such a costume-based thing.
Pity about the boots.

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>>9091361

>>9091216
anyone have suggestions on what to search for a bag like this?

>>9091369
Pitty about all of it, really. Defacing MMIGT should be a crime.

>>9091368
I don't think I'm responsible of someone's actions.

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>>9091370

>>9091377
Right, I'm just explaining why you are getting this reaction.

>>9091373
It's just a treasure chest shaped bag. Pretty sure that one's AatP.

>>9091369
Seeing ott shit people wear to conventions, this is pretty tame. Angel wings are not a rare sight either.

>>9091360
Or maybe you are just delusional.

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>>9091378

>>9091392
Stop projecting so hard.

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>>9091397

>>9091381
Seconding but I think it is sold out on the site. Try Lacemarket when they get the new site straightened back out or look it up on lolibrary and post a wtb in one of the FB sales groups or on egl comm sales group on LJ.

>>9091400
ok but you

>>9091405
Are you 10 or did you forget your meds this morning?

>>9091382
People wear a lot of things to conventions but generally costume wings are not encouraged at Lolita meet ups which of course you'd know if you'd been to many (or any).

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>>9091401

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Sweet or gothic?

>>9091397
I really like the strap overskirt, the hat not so much.

>>9091409
It's bad, so does it matter?

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>>9091408

>>9091409
Sweet. As described up-thread.

>>9091407
Wth is your problem why are you so hostile?
Conventions and meetups are different occasions jfc. of course you'd know if you'd been to many (or any).

>>9091416
>hostile
>that

>>>/tumblr/

I think you're lost.

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>>9091415
Sweet or gothic?

>>9091291
shit

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>>9091414

>>9091418
You need a hot bath gurl

>>9091416
Because anyone wearing those to the convention tea would be told to take them off and most of us don't give a shit about convention things outside Lolita unless we cosplay in which case we make a costume and don't feel the need to wing up our coordinates. This would get jibes for the wings on CoF too, don't pretend it would not.

>>9091427
You need more points on your IQ. Currently it's at room temperature.

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>>9091408
>tfw you have this print and bonnet
although one gripe i have with the fabric is it feels cheap as fuck... its kind of woven unevenly and shiny...

>>9091419
Sweet, collar, bolero ruffles, shoe bows.

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>>9091426

>>9091430
How is the bonnet? What brand is it?

>>9091428
nah I've seen many crazy shit posted to cof and more ott equals more drooling most of the time
holy shit a pair of wings are not as awful as wearing a piece of cake or a carosel as a headdress at all

>>9091429
>not hostile at all, totally friendly

>>9091443
I'm not the same poster as the one who got called that to begin with

>>9091440
Again, subjective opinion, and yes those 2 you mentioned often get crap too but wings are a particularly commented about thing and get the 'costume' label more. I don't like any of them, honestly.

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>>9091431
Sweet or gothic

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>>9091437

>>9091449
the boots ruin it

>>9091449
Another bad mashup both in style and for the season, short sleeves, stompy boots. Unbalanced.

>>9091445
Do >you< have a legit reason for being this salty?

>>9091449
I personally wouldn't even consider this real Lolita.

>>9091458
I'm not salty, I just thought I'd join in on the shitfest that is this thread.

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>>9091450

>>9091438
express L's in love with thanatos is the bonnet
it's lovely! nice lace, chiffon inside. very flexible, and the corsage it comes with is nice. the only 2 issuse i had was having to re sew the straps to a better position so they thing would actually stay on my head, I don't know why they sew it in the place they do. the second issue was the strap material- it's velvet, but it's elastic as well so the sides of the ribbon start to stretch out...
also to clarify the dress is the one with the fabric issues, i dunno what's up wth fox's feathers and their fabric choices

>>9091462
Haha kurohime. This is so pretty!

>>9091463
Thank you. It's a great shape. I'm wanting a triple fortune but timing and expense, <sigh>. I'd like to try a more economical but still nice one meantime so I've been waffling. I'll look this one up, thank you for the info about it!

>>9091462
Sweet. Gothic photography kind of ruins it.

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>>9091462

>>9091474
I would say classic because of cut, sleeves, shoes and headdress style.

>>9091475
What a clusterfuck. How come every Moitiefag and Mana copycat manage to end up like this?

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>>9091475

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>>9091478

>>9091476
Princess sleeves mostly a sweet and hime thing and dress leans more to sweet side with all those ruffles and huge bow.

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What's the difference between black classic and gothic?
Also if gothic has such a distinct sense to it and it doesn't matter about colour can there be pink gothic?

>>9091477
It's only natural man would fail at imitating God

>>9091475
>>9091478
>out of nowhere leg ribbon
ugh

>>9091490
Someone smells new to not recognize older moitie socks complete with real ribbon ties on *surprise* a moitie coord.

>>9091490
They're Moitie

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>>9091482

>>9091491
doesn't change the fact it looks terrible and cheap

>>9091483
That is also true. Undecided since hime sleeves and this cut with shoes are now usually more worn with classic, admittedly ott classic. This may be a true mix that could lean either way. I have a classic over sweet preference so it's likely biasing my opinion that way.

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>>9091494

>>9091491
Again with the subjective opinion since these days those socks (used) can easily cost more than a bodyline dress, but the fact remains that they are certainly not from 'out of nowhere' just because you were too new to have seen them back in the day. A very common sight in moitie coords.

>>9091499
I wouldn't call this gothic. Doesn't have a gothic theme at all. Shoes doesn't fit with the whole aura of the coord other than that pretty basic classic, even old school.

>>9091196
those boots and the cape seem pretty sweet to me.

>>9091506
Definately out of nowhere. It is a fact most oldschool brand items are out of fashion at best and ita at worst now, this is not an exception.

>>9091496
This was meant for you
>>9091506

>>9091499
This is one of the pictures that got me into lolita back in the day. The nostalgia of it makes me so happy.

>>9091513
Agreed, bonnet/hat thingy too.

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>>9091499

>>9091513
>>9091533
this doesn't change the fact that it's obviously a gothic coord though?

>>9091528
Out of fashion doesn't mean out of nowhere, these are perfectly at home in both of these 2 coords whether you LIKE them or not. It has always been acceptable to drag out the moitie ribbon socks with any moitie dress they are just a bother to thread and tie and if the ends weren't sealed, are often frayed. But they are instantly recognizable and quite nostalgia evoking to see. Next you'll be gasping at a pair of moitie arm warmers.

Holy shit guys most of lolita in general has sweet elements to it whether it be classic or gothic or any other substyle. I agree that gothic lolita has a distinct "flavour" to it but that's partially because of the colour and partially because of the styling.

A few sweet elements in a gothic coord doesn't make a coord not gothic as a gothic element in a sweet coord doesn't make it not sweet. There is always going to be some mixing I don't understand why we look at the idk shoes or something of a coord and say automatically that the whole outfit isn't goth.

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>>9091535

>>9091540
Welcome to Lolita. I suggest you read the sticky.

>>9091538
Not sure since it looks more like a gothic print+coffin bag shoved into a sweet coord

>>9091540
exactly this, acting like some sort of almighty lolita style gatekeeper is annoying as fuck
>"you are wearing bows so therefore i declare this coord stripped of its gothic style! j'accuse!"
i mean if you're running around in a pastel pink sweets print with plastic pink accessories piled on then yea, it's obviously sweet but come on, bows + ruffles ≠ automatically not gothic

>>9091539
Sure, Jan.

>>9091551
You sound like a special snowflake ita

>>9091540
If this were true then what is a moitie white dress with a gold print or one covered in blue roses on white chiffon? Both are the epitome of EGL, neither are black or likely close to what spooky-chan up-thread would 'feel' are 'goth-y' but by their very nature and definition are Gothic Lolita?

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You motherfuckers need Mana. Your personal opinion on what is and isn't gothic is not helping the thread at all, so if you actually want to solidify a point please post examples and stop shitposting.

>>9091560
But this one is easy because everything of his is EGA or EGL. All of it. It has never been defined or marketed otherwise. No contest.

>>9091551
This. Tl;dr upthread discussion:

>too old to wear any color and not to look like ageplay
>All black wardrobe
>sweet lolita at heart uwu

>>9091560
Also ribbon moitie socks got 'sure Jan'.
So much for solid examples.

>>9091564
Are you high? Because that didn't sum up any of the major points in the thread.

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>>9091560

>>9091558
>anon says black coords are gothic
>b-but white can be gothic too!

???

>>9091558
I didn't say that colour had to be black. White, black, dark blue and wine/red, grey all lend themselves to gothic very well when provided with the proper styling as you mentioned. Even colours like a darker green can be styled fairly gothic.

Turn that colour into pastel pink or baby blue and the tides turn on what the substyle is no matter the styling however. I am just saying its a combo of the two.

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>>9091499
last picture

>>9091568
This is a dumpster fire.

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>>9091568

>>9091567
You think there were some "major points" in that shitpost?

>>9091579
They tried to do a tldr of the thread and failed so badly I thought they were high.

>>9091577
not even lolita

>>9091571
>provided with proper styling.
That's why we look at shoes, accessories etc. wasn't that the question and part of the debate all along? But since Mercator was posted as gothic here (assuming not troll) so yes, there's this level of new or ignorance to post it as a gothic Jsk. And argue personal opinion.

>>9091577
This barely even looks lolita desu.

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>>9091577

>>9091580
It's true to "I wear black but I'm a 100% sweet lolita" bullshit though.

>>9091575
Yes but it's a sweet one :^)

>>9091585
Oh of course I agree I just think it's stilly how one accessory turns a gothic coord into sweet but the opposite isn't true at all. I suppose I just like to give leeway as long as they don't look like a clusterfuck.

>>9091588
But you can wear black and still have it be 100% sweet you daft cunt.

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Another example of an all black NOT gothic coord.

>>9091585
Sweet jsks in black or any other gothic colors can easily be styled as gothic desu. Just because it released by AP or Baby doesn't make a piece inherently sweet. Take Horror Garden or Holy Lantern.

>>9091600
>a sweet JSK can be styled gothic

No, then you get a mismatched clusterfuck as shown earlier in this thread.


>holy lantern is actually gothic

No.

>>9090833
>post coords and stuff.
This was the shittiest thread you guys. I was expecting fucking Japanese street snaps of gothic lolita outfits.
And it's an argument I've seen like 500 times on this board.

>>9091596
Says who? Post examples if you want to prove a point.

>>9091604
I already did you idiot

>>9091185

>>9091597
This is a gothic and hime meshup. Please get out if you posted this as sweet.

>>9091604
see
>>9091597

literally the post right below

>>9091593
I critique the same way when it's real people posting their own coords and giving example instead of just 'well I feel it's this' with very subjective and often odd opinions about what makes what in lolita regardless of their Western gothic fashion bias and nothing but loud opinions to back it up. "Well it just feels goth-y to me so it's Gothic Lolita" is certainly a creative new one.

>>9091602
>holy lantern is actually gothic
>I am a lying cunt

holy lantern CAN be styled gothic in certain colorways.

>>9091605
>not even a full coord

>>9091607
see >>9091606

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>>9091609
But HL shouldn't be considered gothic. None of the shapes are gothic AT ALL, and the gothic themes to it are cutesy(plus crosses are in 99% of AP sweet recently)

>>9091612
But you can see how all of that, which is a picture directly from AP, is sweet even though it's all black can't you?

>>9091606
Which elements are the gothic ones here?

>>9091616
The ones anon is pulling out of their ass.

>>9091613
>posts goddamned pink high waist

ok lol

>>9091608
Ah I see what you are saying! Yes I think critique is important definitely and I support that for sure. I guess I was just saying it's unfair to categorize someone's entire attempt at gothic as something else because of one mismatched accessory.

Though yes I think the "gothy feel" thing is a bit ridiculous.

It's all really a moot point, goth-y chan is either new, clueless, both, doesn't wear Lolita or all 3. If we start seeing sweet stuff styled so goff in CoF then we will shoot it down as usual but I'm thinking they are just a hot topic refugee who got a bug in their butt after stumbling on Lolita fashion on tumblr and discovering the chan.

>>9091615
>no shoes
>no legwear
>wtf headwear
>full coord

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Dumping some gothic lolita that uses jewel tones and whites as the base instead of black

>>9091616
It's hime and sweet there is no gothic besides the colour. Anon is reaching hard.

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>>9091619
HL is what sweet lolitas wear for a Halloween coord or to feel edgy desu senpai. It's not gothic just because it has bats on it.

>>9091627
Did I say it was a full coord? No. You asked for an example of sweet that is black and I gave it to you.

>>9091625
They didn't strike me as new though, most of the points they made in first a couple posts are valid. I can't even tell who is who in the rest of the thread.

>>9091618
I thought as much. No examples in reply are coming from them, I noticed.
It's likely Kurohime gyaru because I think the dress is Jesus D. Hard to see with the wig but I think I recognize it and they use this lace.

>>9091631
It doesn't have bats on it though anon...

>>9091635
The bonnet is 3F the rest is a striking stage costume. Not exactly a good everyday example.

>>9091629
colour is the core of the whole argument.

>>9091636
>can't tell the difference between styles
>says anything black is gothic or classic
>not new


k

>>9091635
What the fuck is this?

>>9091644
It's really not.
It's a partial argument. It's partially the colour and partially the styling. Both need to be in place for it to be gothic.

>>9091645
>says anything black is gothic or classic

The anon who said that wasn't the OP.

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>>9091641
bat wings*

You happy now?

>>9091650
Mine is on order, coming soon *happy dance*

>>9091644
Real question is:
Don't you need both to be sweet?

>>9091655
I meant>>9091649

>>9091651
No, that was 'feels goth-y', we know OP is new at least here because they don't know how to correctly post and run a substyle thread.

>>9091655
Sweet can be any color. People have been critiqued for calling their all black coord 'gothic' when it's chock full of sweet elements. People will outright say, no, that is sweet.

>>9091661
No, read the thread, they are different people. By OP I meant the anon who started the discussion.

>>9091655
How new are you to Lolita?

>>9091668
I can't help it, the socks make me smile. The teasing about 'leggy' photos, this makes a good candidate for it! Bit jelly of the black socks with blue ribbons. Before my time wearing lolita but I remember the photos.

>>9091674
That is a rhetorical question. How new are you to the internet?

>>9091673
Classic.

>>9091677
So did you just find out about OMG SO KAWAII RORITAS through anime and decided to come here n check it out? Am I right?

>>9091670
>sweet can be any color

Not really.

>>9091679
Choke.
Rarely follows the ruurs anyway unless styling for "hey buy my wigs" mode

>>9091680
I'm not even same person.

>>9091681
Yes it can.

>>9091688
I'd love to see a sweet coord in toxic vaste green and neon orange.

>>9091689
Check out the brand Meta. I'm sure they've got what you're looking for.

>>9091681
Example of a color not done sweet? Jewel tones, winter toys, holiday dresses and velvety, then strong colors, red, Jon for dresses like lucky key, then all pastels all summer, on the regular, with addition of white and black. Browns and muted tones or gold for chocolate and chess prints. Which colors am I missing?

>>9091689
Yep, meta, Radioactive cupcake and that wa-looking koi dress has those colors. Meta is fun. On other people.

>>9091689
Meta could do it

It's easier to think of the substyles as centered around themes rather than any specific color palettes.

>>9091691
Sure, Meta can make dresses in those colors because they are so ~~unique~~ and ~~edgy~~ but it doesn't mean they can be coorded and not be ita.

>>9091657
>>9091655
I would say that because of the attitudes towards sweet (a peterpan collar is always sweet, shoes with bows are always sweet, a heart purse is always sweet etc.) that often outfits with these elements especially all together and up grouped within sweet no matter the colour. (So sweets ends up seeming more encompassing somehow...)

I think if outfits have certain elements (like teaparties) they auto end up in sweet even if the rest of the outfit is gothic or classic. Which is an attitude I don't quite get to be honest.

In my opinion I think a lot of things blur the line and that doesn't really bother me. As much as people like to make the lines set in stone they never are really going to be there especially since fashion is always evolving.

i wish people would stop calling each other new, it makes everyone look like they're five.

>>9091698
Well now you're just going into the meta hate terrirtory and this thread is full to the brim with b8 already, we don't need it.

You were given your example now please kindly fucking off with your bullshit about sweet having to be certain colors.


>>9091702
And I wish you would get cancer but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

>>9091702
Especially since new is very subjective.

>people wonder why people claim to have been in lolita "forever"

>>9091707
Because they're trying to be validated. Nobody wonders why, they just wonder how they're that stupid.

>>9091710
It's just as stupid as calling people new for ridiculous reasons.

>>9091704
Oooh someone got stepped on their burando.

I asked for coords spesifically, so throwing in a brand name doesn't necessarily prove your point.
I don't even hate Meta but I never seen one of their unique snowflake dresses coorded without ending up ita.

>>9091713
I don't think it's stupid, just immature. There's a difference between lacking intelligence and lacking maturity you niggerfaggot.


>>9091716
I hate meta with a passion but I'm too lazy to look up the coords to find you your coord.

Just know that it exists. Also, you are purposefully choosing colors while on their own could work would not work together. If you put those together in any fashion it'll look bad, not just sweet Lolita. Try harder.

>>9091704
You think you look good in vomit green Meta? Post pictures so we believe you. Otherwise no need to bunch up your petti.

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>>9091720
> lacking maturity you niggerfaggot.

>>9091723
I just said I hate meta, I don't have it.

>>9091724
Yes that is the joke.

>>9091700
I often think 'mismatched style' if there isn't a majority of the accessories in a set substyle clearly, preferably with the same substyle main piece. Plenty of people wear really sweet shoes with gothic or classic or try to wear ballet flats as Lolita shoes or stick oxfords into a super-sweet coord for example or only have 1 bag or pair of actual Lolita shoes so they use them with everything but that's more a $$ problem than a style classification problem. It sadly doesn't make lots of coords look any better though.

Black can be sweet.

>>9091702
New is not knowing to post a small photo dump of your own when starting a thread like this.
New is saying Well it's Gothic Lolita because it feels goth-y to me.
New is not knowing moitie ribbon socks,
New is not knowing kuro sweet is a thing
I think if you are pointing out an actual example then it's ok to follow up with the 'how new are you anyway' if anyone posts anything like these statements and then proceeds to hold forth with a subjective opinion as if it were fact.
Yeah, that new.
Too new to be schooling people instead of asking questions other than 'are you high?'

>>9091123
Hahah that is so samefag "different anon".. same writing style and words

>>9091743
I'm not but I'd be rather new than a salty cunt who constantly shits up a civil conversation.

>>9091731
Most lolita items are not style spesific desu.

>312 posts
>23 posters

Get a fucking blog, losers. This thread is pathetic. Make /cgl/ great """""again"""""

>Implying it ever was

Anyway, sage. Please read the sticky and lurk more until you understand the basics of lolita. Stop shitposting, it's never ok. I hate you all

>>9091161
Omfg you have used that line that line too many times over the past few days. You really shit everyone off you know

>>9091761
See, opinion...to me these comments I quoted were ignorant and not at all belonging here, thereby making ME feel they cluttered up the conversation with them and at the very least contributed greatly to it becoming a big argument with fewer coords than we all wanted. No one came here to hear how goth-y someone thinks this or that is. We came to see and post Gothic Lolita coordinates. I posted some, others posted some but yes I might be salty because all goth-y chan posted was challenges and insults, even when we answered her rude questions.

>>9091767
I disagree, I think more can be classified into a typical substyle than not. Some can cross over but usually with limitations.

>>9091209
#triggered

>>9091203
does anyone have a source on this dress? i reverse image searched it but didn't find any coord info

>>9091798

Angelic Pretty's Mercator Antique Shop

>>9091485
underrated post

>>9091580
Stop calling everyone high omfg.

>>9091643
They used a makeup app, and they are shopped into that locations. Looks weird af

>>9090964
You are so dumb if you think all black coords can't be sweet.

>>9091077
Everything you just said is wrong. I hope for your sake that you lied about being into lolita for a long time, otherwise you are exceedingly stupid.

>>9091193
This is not gothic

>>9091193
Sweet

>>9091199
Classic

>>9091203
Sweet

>>9091210
Classic

>>9091222
Borderline sweet

>>9091302
Sweet

>>9091314
Sweet

>>9091321
Gothic

>>9091409
Sweet

>>9091414
Classic

>>9091419
Gothic JSK paired with non-matching sweet

>>9091426
Classic

>>9091462
Classic

>>9091511
If you think old school is a style on its own, you're not fit to comment.

>>9091542
Gothic JSK coorded with a mish mash of sweet and classic

>>9091547
Sweet

>>9091556
Sweet

>>9091581
It's just very casual

>>9091587
Gothic main piece coorded as classic

>>9091654
Sweet

Why are so many people here so stubbornly dense?

>>9091853
your opinions are shit and wrong

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OP here, pls no saltiness my friends. oki thank u!!11

>>9091944
I'm guessing you're annoyed that I said that the black classic outfits are classic? Please elaborate, newfag.

>>9091775
Challenges were posted by me for fun and I'm not goth chan. I hope insults and rude questions you mentioned doesn't also refers me.

>>9091944
They are spot on though. Also interested in hearing why you are so angry

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What makes something inherently Gothic in lolita? A lot of the dark "classic" outfits such as
>>9091199
>>9091210
>>9091462
>>9091499
feel pretty Gothic to me since it has a dark essence?
but
>>9091401
>>9091560
>>9091668

Gets the pass as being gothic even though, to me, they feel like they could also be put underneath this "dark classic" label.

Also are any of you guys apart of the gothic subculture and does this determine your views on whether its gothic or not in the lolita world? Or are you guys just strictly lolita, and just judging things based off of just that fashion?

And just for reference, how would you guys label Jillian Venters? She's a pretty prominent Victorian goth. Would her outfits under your opinion be just goth or just classic?(pic related)

Personally to me it has to all deal with styling, if you take a black dress and add lots of cutesy elements to it, it can be sweet, but if you take that same dress and use pretty neutral accessories it can be gothic or classic depending on the makeup and hair. Take that same dress and have darker makeup , Siouxsie Sioux hair, dark nails and some fishnets its gothic. Etc.

I don't think a coord necessarily has to have "gothic motifs" to be gothic, just the general look has to have that theme. Motifs help create a stronger theme but outfits such as this
>>9091499
feel gothic to me, even though she doesn't have any of those motifs, but she effectively uses hair and makeup to make it feel goth.

>>9092545
good lord, her outfits are a clusterfuck

>>9091653
I just ordered one too, hell yea

>>9092545
>thinks JetJ is gothic and Moitie is classic

Lol

>>9092545
She's not a lolita so I wouldn't label her anything pertaining to lolita fashion because she's not even intending to be attempting to coordinate within a lolita aesthetic.

>>9091668
All three of these coordinates are from the most well known and most gothic of all the lolita brands, they epitomize Gothic Lolita.
You are talking out of your ass.
Western goth =/= Japanese gothic.
Neither are bound by the other's standard or aesthetic.

>>9093011
Ikr?

>>9092545
So.
This one >>9091560 get a 'pass on being Gothic Lolita' from you huh?
Oh really.

Newsflash: Mana isn't Gothic Lolita guys, we've been living a lie!

So terminally clueless she doesn't even know she is this clueless.
After all the posts.
Thank Mana-sama for autosage
F*ck this derp-ass thread.

>>9091511
>>9091499
Are you blind? This is incredibly gothic, from the hime bangs and dark makeup, to the lace on the hands, simple lines of the dress, and clunky mary janes.