Lolita Substyles

Sailor is still pretty popular, and country usually gets worn in the summer. Right now I'd say the most popular substyle is nun. I'd like to say punk is making a comeback- I've seen a few casual 50s inspired coords. I just bought a Baby moto jacket so I'm looking forward to making punk coords.

>>8857022
How long has Nun been an official substyle? I've been seeing it more and more recently.

>>8857029
Forever, really. If you check Lolibrary you can find Boz, Moitie, and VM nun dresses from like 2000/2001. It was more of a gothic lolita thing to do, until Nameless Poem came out with a nun dress and everyone lost their collective shit and AP and Baby hopped on the bandwagon. It also happened around a time everyone was doing religious-themes (so nun lolita could really be put in a larger substyle of religious lolita) when AP was putting crosses on random pastel dresses and everyone made Madonna crowns. JetJ rereleased the Crucifixion dress, and now Innocent World won't stop just randomly putting crosses everywhere.

Can Cosplay lolita ever be done well enough to be considered a substyle?

>>8857070
There are plenty of "good" or subtle examples that people still hate. So probably not. Unless the character you're cosplaying is a lolita, and not a shitty ita anyway.

>>8857070
depends on your degree of "cosplay" that's mixed with lolita. themed coords like harry potter coords are really cute imo and are cosplay without going overboard. the OP pic in the themed coords thread is a good example.

sage for double post (forgot to add onto my last post. gg self.)

>Are substyles like Sailor and Country on the decline?
I sure hope not because classic-y sailor and country are my favorite substyles. My entire wardrobe is sailor and country save for a couple of generic classic and old school pieces.

>>8857131
There's been talk about country falling out of favour and being considered more of a 'theme' than a full substyle.

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>>8857070
I remember there being a post in either the general or the Ita thread about pic related being a cosplay, or that there was a character who's outfit was based on it.

>>8856970
It's too cold for sailor and country in the northern hemisphere right now.

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>>8857190
I think it's possible to wear country and sailor during winter.

does anyone have any good pictures of modern punk lolita?

Can wa crawl back in it's hole and die ? Last spring wa lolita craze was pretty awful.

>>8857029
I own a Nun Meta dress that is from 2000/2001. It's a very old substyle as >>8857044 mentioned above.

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requesting military

>>8856970
I feel like they always WERE trends but at the time western lolita was still a new thing so we thought of them as 'sub styles' but in reality they were just trends or certain ways of wearing lolita. Like most country lolita would be considered classic or sweet by todays standards and no brand caters just to a specific 'substyle' Meta releases a range of punk,sweet, classical, gothic,sailor and military items all the time but it doesn't make it a X-brand it's just a Lolita brand now.
AP and BABY are sweet brands but you can take any item and wear it as a gothic outfit, country, sweet or whatever substyle you want. It's more that they were trends that we thought were specific styles at the time imo.

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I should hope not, especially since Bodyline has half-way decent styles for both country and sailor.

Also, I love sailor. Most of my stuff is or will be sailor. Non-sailor dress? Pair with sailor coat. Sailor is love. Sailor is hope. Sailor is joy. Sailor lolita will sail, even if I am a lone passenger. Viva Sailor!

Disagree that it's too cold. Sailor loli, at least the classic kind, does come in winter colours. Navy is perfect for colder and warmer weather, the rest just depends on the sleeves and cut of the dress.

Just ordered pic related in navy.

I'd hope ero be a thing...

>>8857044
While yeah, 'Nun lolita' is a really old style, I think it's gotten rather OTT these days in many ways. BABY at the minute have a series which has a headdress that looks just like the headdresses that a lot of modern nuns actually wear (although not the full wimple headdresses). I have two of Boz's older style nun dresses, in all black, and it's fairly easy to make them look less nun-like.

>>8857377
Exactly. It's like IW are usually considered to be Classic / Swet, some of their pieces rock for fantastic gothic coords that are more sophisticated and mature than say, AatP's gothic pieces at present. I even use their stuff for hybrid Aristocrat looks.

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>>8857373
Dumping from my inspo folder

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>>8857686

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>>8857688

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>>8857689

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>>8857691

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>>8857695

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>>8857699

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>>8857701

>>8857686
I just got that set, what kind of bag would go with it?

>>8857718
I would go with a black bag with a cross-body strap.

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>>8857714

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>>8857727

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>>8857733

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>>8857752

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>>8857758

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>>8857766

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>>8857767

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>>8857770

>>8857070
I say no, it can't be a substyle but it's a thing. Brands have done anime character dresses, they usually aren't very popular. If you are cosplaying a Lolita character, it's cosplay and if you lolify a theme like Harry Potter or DR Who and make a Lolita coord it's still considered a cosplay by most Lolitas. I sometimes cosplay a Lolita character and even though the cosplay fits all the requirements of a Lolita coord, I only tag it cosplay and I would not wear it to a meet unless for Halloween or a costume party themed meet.

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>>8857774

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>>8857778

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>>8857781

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>>8857783

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>>8857785

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>>8857789

>>8857160
Where is this dress from?

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>>8857791

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>>8857793

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>>8857796

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>>8857797
/end of dump

>>8857377
But Japanese call them substyles too.

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Baby made country print Re・ci・pe for the endless dream (pic related) last summer but it was rather unpopular. But sailor/military designs seem to fly off the shelves this year.

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>>8857799
requester here, thank you so much! I didn't realise there's quite a difference between oldschool and modern military, that's really cool.
have some inspiration folder kuro (does this count or would the blouse also have to be black?)

>>8857898
Kuro is all black, yes.

>>8857792
I think it's Meta. Yoy can kind of see the twin swans on the bow

>>8857044
I feel like religious theme lolita is still different from the very traditional (?) nun lolitas though. The whole wagon of madona crowns and veils lacks the simplicity and solemnity of the good old nun lolita? From my point of view even nameless poem is not that "nun" but more like "religious school uniform". Older nun style also tends to avoid the whole slap a cross on every available surface that many brands are doing now, one is enough.

>>8857377
>>8856970
Sweet, classic, gothic, & punk are the only substyles. The rest are themes

>>8857802
No they don't

>>8858167
>Punk is a substyle along with the big three
Kek.

>>8858169
not poster but punk is categorized as a different genre in a lot of japanese magazines like kera, and it got it's own section in one of misako's "lolita introductory book", though she did put steam punk under the punk category...but it is a major sub style that's different from sweet, classic, and gothic.

>>8856970
You mean themes, not substyles.

>>8858169
it is in Japan. it is usually abreviated "roripan" and brands like h Naoto, Putumayo, etc. are going strong with it as themes.

>>8858279
>themes
themes in the sense of the clothes they produce; it is definitely its own substyle and not just a theme.

i do think things like country are basically themes, though.

>>8858269
Do we have generally-accepted definitions for what substyle and theme mean anymore? I remember thinking it was:

style = lolita
substyle = sweet, classic, gothic
theme = country, sailor, punk, etc.

But some people say style is sweet, classic, gothic? And substyles are country, sailor, punk?

>>8858288
see I thought it went
fashion: lolita
style: classic, sweet, gothic
substyle: country, sailor, punk, casual, ect
theme: religious, chocolate, floral, ect

>>8858557
Yeah, that's how I think of it. Of course some combos are almost inspossible, like chocolate goth, but most themes can be done in any substyle.

>>8858557
this

>>8858129
That's true! I was just trying to get across that the "new" nun themed lolita falls more into the category of the recent religious trends, which are heavily sweet and classic, while the old school nun style was primarily goth.

>>8858565
Mm, maybe a dark, dark brown bustle dress in a stiff silk, with wine coloured accents like a cherry cordial...

>>8857070
I think so, but I think that you MUST use actual lolita dresses. I've seen a Cinderella coord that really worked for me, so since then I've believed in cosplay lolita.

>>8858557
So is the difference between substyle and theme being more established?

>>8858565
Didn't someone in the 'Chocolate Coords' thread say that they're all automatically sweet? I think that's really rigid especially considering how so many chocolate pieces can be used in classic coords.

>>8856970
Oh man I hope not, sailor has always been one of my favorite styles.

>>8858616
I dunno, it seems opinions vary. But this thread is here for discussion.

What is OTT classed as? Would you class it as a substyle or something else? Well, substyles seeing as you can have OTT Sweet, OTT Classic, etc.

>>8857259
not while Meta draws breath it can't.

>>8857551
I own this in blue and I can't wait till winter so I can pair it with red cardigans and cute berets.

>>8858654
OTT belongs in an entirely different system of categorization because it deals with what the coord looks like in a more abstract way. The Guidebook explains it pretty succinctly imo:

>Like mainstream fashion, lolita has varying degrees of dressiness depending on the occasion. This spans from what is commonly known as “casual lolita”, all the way up to “over the top (OTT)” outfits. Descriptors like “casual” and “OTT” can be applied to any sub style. Here are some tips for choosing an outfit.

>>8858657
I'd say it falls under 'theme' since it's something you do with a style.

>>8858687
replied to the wrong thing somehow. Anyway I feel OTT is a theme.

>>8858654
ott is more like "a level of how dressed you are" since you can add "ott" to really, anything, i mean you could technically have an ott pirates or ott religious, so it's an adjective more than a noun i suppose.

>>8858745
I think OTT is more of a verb if we're using a grammar metaphor, assuming that styles are nouns.

>>8858758

No the other anon's right. OTT modifies the 'nouns' of lolita, e.g. classic, gothic, sweet, etc.

>>8858581
>>8858641
That gave me an idea, if anyone would like to practice making coords! >>8858772

>>8858761
Hear me out (also sorry if this doesn't make that much sense but it's late at night here and I just had a barely-coherent epiphany).

If we assume that a coord is a sentence and that styles are nouns, then levels-of-dress are verbs because OTT dictates how the style exists rather than modifying what the style looks like. You can't have a coord that doesn't fall somewhere between the spectrum of casual/regular/OTT, much in the same way that you can't form a proper sentence without a verb.

The most basic, bare-bones sentence is noun+verb, much like a coord is (style)+(level of dress)

Substyles and themes are adjectives because you can have a proper sentence/coord without them..

>>8858784

You don't necessarily need OTT or casual or 'in between' to describe the substyles though. It could just be 'classic.' There are some coords that could be called 'casual classic' and some 'ott classic' but coords that strike me as quintessentially classic are just that.

You don't need to tack on a modifier to everything, just like you don't need to tack on an adjective. That's why I classify it as such.

>>8858809
You literally can't have a coord where you can't gauge how dressed up/down it is though. What you're describing as "quintessentially classic" is classic that's "in-between" OTT and casual.

>>8858784
"OTT classic" is not a sentence.
"I wear OTT classic." is a proper sentence with subject and verb.
The verb is "wear".

>>8860591
is this a substyle? is it lolita?

>>8858784
please sleep more before posting like this.

over-the-top, casual, normal, formal, OTT, these are all modifiers, not verbs. please reconsider your education.

maybe take a small linguistics class.

>>8860696
It's a JetJ piece and I think it falls under 'Historic Lolita' which is probably more well known for Rococo coords than Edwardian ones

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>>8859956
I love this one!

>>8857169
is OTT classic a thing yet

I really want some big crazy hats

I see sailor, country, pirate and nun more as themes and not as substyles. Nun falls into gothic or classic, country is either sweet or classic, pirate is classic and sailor is often sweet.
Am I the only one who thinks like this?

>>8860943
What hole have you been hiding in? OTT CLassic's been a big thing for a while now.

>>8857062
That hairstyle is wonderful! Any tutorials?

>>8857020
I like pirate lolita a lot. Dificult to get right

>>8857112
This is also really cool

>>8857167
I must know the name of the blue dress

>>8857007
I dunno, to me that trunk purse looks way too bulky and dark for the rest of this.

>>8858557
This

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>>8860945
I agree with you to some extent, though I do think that there is such a thing as "plain" sailor - Meta's sailor designs usually don't have specific characteristics that make them sweet or classic or gothic, unlike other brands' which often do.
It's the same with kuro and shiro, I think: Most of the themes aren't confined to one specific substyle and can be interpreted in different ways as long as they fit the specific idea set by the theme. Nun lolita might be the odd one out as it does suit gothic or classic a lot more than sweet, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say.

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>>8857224

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>>8861332

>>8860478
Anon didn't mean literally, she mean "verb", "noun", etc as an extended metaphor for how to describe lolita.

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>>8861334

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>>8861340

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>>8861343

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>>8861353

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>>8861379

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>>8861384

>>8860943
OTT classic is huge at the moment but the picture is in this thread because it's 'historic/period lolita'. Obviously all lolita is based on historic fashions but some coords borrow more from these eras than others,

>>8860698
Please read the entire conversation before replying.

>>8858758
>>8858784
original poster, before this goes into a shit storm. it wasn't a metaphor to begin with, i was talking if the description "over the top" it self is a style category, which would make it a noun, or a descriptor, which makes it an adjective that describe the category. no metaphor is involved.

>>8856991
RIP punk lolita

Bump for shitposting thread killer

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>>8857070
It should never be called cosplay lolita. However, I feel if you can pull off a disneybound type coord that's great.

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>>8869375

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It's not exactly a substyle but I love magical girl inspired coords. Pic semi related as I don't have any good coords to post, but hoping someone will dump or suggest where to look for them.

>>8869375
Why not just call it fandom lolita?

Oh wait, that usually means itas in fandom t-shirts and crappy homemade. Never mind.

On a side note, I adore that Daisy coord!

>>8869886
I think people call it mahou kei? It's hard to find good pictures, but something subtle like a sailor collar blouse can make it mahou.

requesting shiro lolita. I want to make a coord, but lack inspo

>>8869375
The problem with cosplay Lolita is that it stops looking good as actual Lolita. If it stops looking good or passable as a Lolita coord, it stops being Lolita.
The pic you posted teeters dangerously enough simply because of those dodgy tights.

>>8869886
Pinkly Ever After! It's closed, unfortunately, but you can still find it in resale.

>>8874086
I fucking loved that store! I still have a sweater by them. So sad when they closed.

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With the increasing OTT-trend followers, how can you guys distinguish between hime and OTT whatever?

>>8857551
I wore the blue one in the winter anyway to a meet. All the pics were inside anyway.

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>>8857377
I agree with you anon, there was never a significant amount of people wearing hime lolita/sailor lolita/country lolita on a daily basis for it to be considered a serious substyle. They were always just themes, but the western lolita community is obsessed with categorization for some reason.

>>8874181
Hime uses princess accessories. Crowns, scepters and shit. It's also much much more costumey.

>>8856991
>>8857127

I love these so much.

You could easily argue country is just classic/sweet fusion with a straw hat but it's still cute as fuck and I love it

>>8858288
This is how i Think of it. you can make of a sweet sailor or Gothic sailor or sweet nun (think ap's milky cross) but it's harder to say >>8858557
because its too defined and constricting. For someone to say "this is a sweet outfit" or "this is a punk outfit" its easier than "this is an OTT Gothic Punk Floral Lolita outfit"

If you take it back to being theme to describe the print/feel of the outfit (country, religious, sailor etc) and put the classification of sub style to just style it can open up much more possibilities than being bombarded with every minute detail.

>>8858745
I see OTT being a level, like formal occasion, business casual, casual in normal clothing

>>8869886
I had a magical girl themed meet up for my comm and I couldn't get over how cute all the coords were! It can be hard to not venture too far into the realm of cosplay, but I do like it a lot.

>>8857551
I have that in green. It's going to be great to wear in winter. Far too thick for an Australian summer, unless I'm just planning on staying inside all day.

>>8859970
My favourite nun coord ever

>>8878271
Omg I know it's 4chan and you should post pics but I'm dying to see them.I bet you all looked so cute. I wish my comm would have a magical girl meet.

>>8882220
Seconding this. Maybe block out faces and other identifying features? But I'd understand if you still wouldn't want to.

>>8883604
just ask them if they would not mind being shared to an image board.

>>8858641
>oh this isn't a sweet chocolate coord, it's a sugar free diabetes safe chocolate coord

>>8858565
>chocolate goth
challenge accepted, anon
I'll get back to you if the results are swell

>>8859943
this is beautiful. so light and precious

>>8861116
ID on the middle dress in the upper row? such soothing simplicity.

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>>8858565
>>8883673

>>8857131
>>8857137
I've been doing country for awhile now, I don't think that it is necessarily on the decline just there seems to be this rather wide spread attitude that any classic or sweet dress can be made country by slapping on a straw hat; so it isn't a substyle. Plus it wasn't very popular to begin with... Beyond slapping on straw hats.

>Inb4 sailor and country aren't substyles.
>they often use different colour palletes,
>thematically different with print content
>have certain fabrics mostly used for their styles
>have styles of trim and lace that 'belong' with their styles
>have construction details that are commonly used.
>have a few common cuts that are associated with their styles.
>have different accessory types, bag types, headwear styles, made from different materials,
>have hairstyles more commonly associated with them than other styles
....

I don't want to sound like an edge-chan, but if you think that country can be achieved with any old sweet or classic dress with a few "countryfication's", you just don't get it.

or more simply, ric-a-rac trim looks retarded on almost anything not sailor. Eyelet lace looks retarded on anything not intended for country.

Yes they are a nice marriage of a classic and sweet feel, but they are most definitely their own thing.

>>8883687
But does this really count as a chocolate coord?
You can barely see the chocolate motif and if I didn't know the name I never would've known this was a chocolate print

>>8878271
At least direct me somewhere I can see similar coords. Google gives mostly mahou fairy kei. Is there a mahou kei lolita tumblr somewhere?