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Frugal/Saving Thread

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Post some.

Don't take out student loans for anything more than the cost of tuition. You can pirate just about any textbook online. You can get a job to cover costs of living. You can apply for scholarships for just about anything from perfect attendence to making the Dean's List. I see way too many retards taking out loans for apartments, cars, laptops, clothing, etc. Then they bitch and moan because they are fucking retarded scum. If you make up any excuse to why you can't get a job while studying or expect things to be "free", then you will never make it and should fucking kill yourself. Fucking leeches of society. Go fuck off in Sweden.

Don't take a loan out for a car, ever. There is absolutely no need for it. Buy a car you can afford in cash. Old Hona Civics and Toyota Corollas last forever. Buy an old beat up truck for hauling things/driving in the snow. I bought an old Corrola for $1,700 in 2005 and it still runs to this day. I also bought a beat up farm truck for $500 that runs fine for the rare ocassion I need it.

Save as much as you spend. If you want a $60 video game, save $120 for it and put $60 in your savings account. Of course this can't be done for everything, but should be a rule you follow for any purchases under $1,000.

When investing, save your money and then buy during corrections in the market. Invest in SPY or VOO. Keep saving and wait for the next correction. Market crashes are only temporary. If you worry about them, you are fucking retarded. You should only prepare for them if you are retiring in 5-10 years. You should start moving your investments into bonds and CDs the closer you get to retirement to limit your risk.

Buy food in bulk and/or shop on days where you get discounts, such as borrowing your Grandma's Kroger card and shopping on Senior Citizen discount day.
>>
Adding on

Food is where you will spend a lot of unplanned money.
Learn how to be frugal and purchase items on sale/cook cheaply
DO NOT EAT OUT
it's the easiest way to jack up your budget.
>>
>>977906
>Invest in SPY or VOO

On board with all the other tips OP but how do I buy SPY or VOO in Canada without large fees? Is there an option for memedians?
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>>977906
>Save as much as you spend. If you want a $60 video game, save $120 for it and put $60 in your savings account

>Being Frugal
>Buying video games

I don't think understand what frugal means, OP.
>>
>>977946

Care to elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean and don't understand how Canada works.

>>977925
It's okay to eat out occasionally (I only go out when a family member is willing to pay personally), but don't be delusional and think it's cheaper than "healthy" food.. A typical meal at McDonald's is about $5. You can cook your own meals at home for less than $1 a serving. I spend less than $400 a month on groceries and that includes shampoo, laundry detergent, toilet paper, paper towels, etc. My food budget is more like $50 a week. I buy meat on Manager Special at Kroger, lots of canned food, etc. I also grow some of my own vegetables. If I were to eat fast food because it's "cheaper" even at 2 meals a day that would be $300 a month alone in food, not including other things I need for the house. Not to mention I would be fat as fuck.
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>>977952
>Frugal/Saving Thread
>Saving Thread

Can't read Rainman?
>>
>>977954
>Care to elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean and don't understand how Canada works.

We'd be subject to US capital gains tax and also broker's markup on currency conversion, it's quite a few percent on the currency conversion so I think that cuts quite a bit into profits.

At least from what i could make of http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/funds-and-etfs/etfs/us-etfs-top-picks-for-canadian-investors/article6115956/
>>
>>977954
>>977982
Should I be buying this?

https://www.vanguardcanada.ca/individual/mvc/detail/etf/overview?portId=9563##overview

Seems like the only viable option for Canadians.
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>>977954
what are some great canned foods? Every time I tried them they always taste like fucking metal unless it's corn or basic
>>
>>977982
>>977986

Not sure. I do believe Vanguard makes a Canadian leveraged S&P ETF or something.

>>978029
I mostly get canned veggies, or those frozen bags for $1. Also get canned tuna, chili, veggie soup, etc. I grew up on Chef Boyardee. The "metal taste" is immune to me.
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Wash and reuse toilet paper for shitting.

Ride a unicycle everywhere. 50% less wheels than a bicycle, 50% more energy efficient = 50% saved.

Eat your own shit 3-4 times before having a normal meal again = cut down grocery expenses by 80%.

Live in a cardboard box = $0 rent/mortgage.
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>>977946
don't bother

you'll get better returns from picking 50 stocks at random than investing in the S&P
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>>978151

Show us the statistics
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>>978151
that sounds false.
>>
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/07/25/random-stock-picking-will-beat-sp-fund-manager.html

kind of makes sense - S&P is a weighted average biased towards large companies whereas if you pick 50 equally weighted stocks at random you'll likely end up with more small cap exposure
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>>978187
idk but what's up with the returns on the memeguard etf I linked?

It's like over 20% p/a, isn't that really really good?
>>
>>978187

Nice read, but no citation in that article or his statement to prove the statistics. If Bill Gates said sucking dick makes you successful, would you do it?
>>
frozen veggies (any kind, broccoli is the best imo) (they're actually healthier for you)
hard boiled eggs
good natural peanut butter
good bread that actually fills you up/make your own bread
minced pork
discount canned tuna/salmon makes for very nourishing meals
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>>978220
>If Bill Gates said sucking dick makes you successful, would you do it?

Well if Bill said it...
>>
>>978230

pork is haram
there's better carbs than bread like rice and oats
canned tuna can give you mercury posion
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>>978239
>canned tuna can give you mercury posion

Buy canned Salmon instead. Tastes better and has virtually no mercury.
>>
>>977946

qtrade.ca, buy HXS.
>>
>>978252
Thanks but I'm going to buy VFV through tax-free savings account.

I just dont get how this shit has been doing so well, am I just reading it wrong in some way or is it really that gud
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>>978151
This is the most retarded thing I've read all day.
>>
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Okay so I tested the random 50 stocks vs S&P thing.

I just tried to diversify with stocks I knew off the top of my head. I didn't pick any growth stocks like TSLA or SBUX for this test. The results are surprising.

Keep in mind, this analyzer doesn't account for dividend income afaik

Don't feel like running another test. Took too long with this one. If somebody could automate it, that would be cool.

>Portfolio 1
50% VOO (S&P 500 Index)
50% RSP (Equal Weighted S&P 500 Index)

>Portfolio 2
>All are 2%
Apple
Cisco
Google
Intel
Microsoft
Sony
Amazon
Costco
CVS
eBay
Kroger
Wal-Mart
Target
Campbell Soup Company
Coca-Cola
Dr Pepper (Snapple)
General Mills
Hershey's
Kellog's
Procter & Gamble
Tyson Foods
Bank of America
Goldman Sach's
JP Morgan
Wells Fargo
Comcast
Time Warner Cable
Viacom
Walt Disney
AT&T
Bell Canada
Verizon
Anthem Inc.
Eli Lilly
Humana
Merck
Pfizer
Regeneron
United Health Group
American Electric Power
Exxon Mobil
General Electric
Halliburton
Westar Energy
Xcel Energy
American Airlines
Delta Airlines
Southwest Airlines
General Motors
Ford


Back tested from 2010 to 2015. The 50 stock portfolio averaged +7% gain a year and had a smaller drawdown than the S&P portfolio.
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>>978306

I changed some stocks around so it could go back to the 2008 crash and it still performed almost twice as good as the S&P fund.
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>>978311

Back to 2006
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>>978306
>>978311
>>978315
Vanguard BTFO
>>
>>978315
try taking out aapl, goog, and amzn. not a proponent of index investing myself but i know those stocks rose like fuck.
>>
>>978350

They would have all been realistic reasonable investments at time, wasn't just luck or speculation. And they are all S&P 500 stocks. I didn't include NFLX, TSLA, or SBUX because who woulda thought they would have gone up that much.
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I'm a borderline ascetic NEET who has done away with most decadent desires. I never have less than €10k cash even though I live on welfare.

Feels good, adjusting your desires to your income is way more sensible than the other way around.
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>>978414
>Feels good, adjusting your desires to your income is way more sensible than the other way around.

But don't you feel bad being a parasite?
>>
>>978415
The idea that the unemployed are immoral parasites is based on the notion that people who work make an 'honest living' in a economic system that is righteous. I don't believe that to be the case. If anything my position is rather neutral compared to the people who make a living actively fucking other people over. I'm much less of a parasite than most rich people.

Also, unemployment is on the rise and will continue to be on the rise simply because most jobs are disappearing soon due to automatisation and new bullshit jobs aren't made up fast enough. Meanwhile the population is growing. We already work far more than we have to and as a society we'll soon have to come to terms with the notion that we have become efficient to the point that full employment is not only undesirable but simply impossible.

I consider myself an early adapter if anything.
>>
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Picked 5 stocks from each sector. Portfolio #1 are those 50 stocks with equal weight. Portfolio #2 is 100% SPY. Positions are re balanced once a year.

CONSUMER DISCRETIONARY (5)
AMZN - Amazon.com
DG - Dollar General
MCD - McDonald's
NKE - Nike
SBUX - Starbucks

CONSUMER STAPLES (5)
COST - Costco Wholesale
KR - Kroger
PEP - PepsiCo
TGT - Target
WMT - Wal-Mart

ENERGY/UTILITIES (5)
AEP - American Electric Power
DUK - Duke Energy
HAL - Halliburton
KMI - Kinder Morgan
XOM - Exxon Mobil

FINANCIALS (5)
BRK.B - Berkshire Hathaway Class B
C - Citigroup
GS - Goldman Sach's
JPM - JP Morgan
WFC - Wells Fargo

HEALTH CARE (5)
ESRX - Express Scripts
HCA - Hospital Corporation of America
HUM - Humana
JNJ - Johnson & Johnson
UNH - UnitedHealth Group

INDUSTRIALS/MATERIALS (5)
BA - Boeing
DD - DuPont
GE - General Electric
LMT - Lockheed Martin
RTN - Rayethon

PHARMA/BIOTECH (5)
BMY - Bristol-Myers Squibb
CELG - Celgene
GILD - Gilead Sciences
LLY - Eli Lilly
REGN - Regeneron

TECHNOLOGY (5)
AAPL - Apple
CSCO - Cisco
GOOG - Google
INTC - Intel
MSFT - Microsoft

TRANSPORTATION (5)
F - Ford
FDX - FedEx
GM - General Motors
TSLA - Tesla
UPS - UPS

TELECOM/MEDIA (5)
CMCSA - Comcast
DIS - Walt Disney
NFLX - Netflix
T - AT&T
VZ - Verizon
>>
>>978422
>If anything my position is rather neutral compared to the people who make a living actively fucking other people over. I'm much less of a parasite than most rich people

Why do you think all employment is "fucking people over"? If you're even going to go there that's the a very small percentage of "jobs".

>I'm much less of a parasite than most rich people
But in order to sustain you someone has to work hard enough to pay for you. Is it your parents? Are they ok with it?
>>
>>978431
you're doing some good work anon. but undoubtedly ispaz will show up and show you his awesome index research papers.

i'm not a buy and holder at all so i have no horse in this race.
>>
>>978435
>Why do you think all employment is "fucking people over"?
Didn't say that, m8. Just wanted to point out that employment is not necessarily virtuous and unemployment isn't necessarily bad. It all depends on what you do and don't do.

>But in order to sustain you someone has to work hard enough to pay for you. Is it your parents? Are they ok with it?
As I said in an earlier post, I live on welfare. I cost the average person in my country approximately €0.0004 a year. That's less than the cost of flushing a toilet. Once. It's really negligible to the degree that I'd feel a lot more guilty trying to compete with them for jobs that they actually want.
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>>978422
top kek but im in a similar position and agree with you
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>>978436

The moment that sperglord shows up, I will abandon thread. He still posts here?
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>>978449
yes. and he autistically argues his points. even when he's clearly being trolled. have no idea why he's still here. you'd figure a guy worth (supposedly) 10+ mil would have better things to do than argue with people on an anime discussion site.
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>>978444
>It's really negligible to the degree that I'd feel a lot more guilty trying to compete with them for jobs that they actually want.

What are you going to do when the welfare state collapses and you're 30+ years of age with no skills or experience? Have you considered what you're going to do in that (likely) scenario? Suicide?
>>
>>978121
You're not helping.
>>
>>978444
Also what country's welfare allows you to live so well off of? I want to move there to receive welfare and then work cash jobs to make even more dough

Do they make you apply to a few jobs a week or something to show you're looking for a job? Or is it disability? I mean you could fake the first one easily but faking a disability to give you a fair bit might be kinda hard. Mental illness easy to fake but apparently they don't give all that much.

Idk any tips on getting welfare and what country?
>>
>>978457
The welfare state collapsing would be such a catastrophe to everyone involved that it simply won't happen short of the collapse of the state itself. In that case I'm no more fucked than your average office worker. Probably less so since lumpenproles are more happening proof than the middle classes.
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>>978469
OK well how do I join you? Please respond to >>978467

Do I need to fake mental illness or are you in the UK where you just need to pretend to look for a job to get it? How much do they pay you?
>>
>>978469
Please respond. I don't want to work anymore either, fuck that shit when I can just chill at home all day and smoke weed. Is there also enough money to get high everyday?
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>>978474
I live in the Netherlands and get about 7k a year, would be around 11k if I had my own place. You get welfare for not having a job.

They'll expect me to do some volunteering soon though, but that's a 100 hours a year.

Foreigners don't get any unless they're legitimate asylum seekers.
>>
>>978431
only problem I have with this method is brokerage. I have to pay $30 a trade in new zealand, so ETFs make the most sense.
>>
>>978485
Fuck that's so unfair.

So shitskin goatfuckers from Syria can get free things but I can't?

Smdh... I'm going to try to figure out how to fake schizophrenia or something then. I shouldn't have to work, it's beneath me.
>>
>>978306
>I just tried to diversify with stocks I knew off the top of my head.
Obviously you are going to know the best performers. What the fuck is the point of retroactively picking the best stocks?

Buy TVIX August 21
Sell TVIX September 1

150% return in a week, holy shit, basically Jesus. Inverse leveraged volatility hedges are the way to go guise.
>>
>>978491
>implying you're better than anyone else
>>
>>978493
>implying I'm not

Others should work and then pay taxes to sustain me. Pay for my drugs you wageslaves! I'm tired of working senpai. All this time I thought getting welfare was hard
>>
Since this is a frugal saving thread can we please discuss how to Jew the most out of welfare?
Discuss ways to get the most welfare possible and never have to work.
>>
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>>978504
1. Be a bum
2. Panhandle
3. Collect unemployment
4. Get public housing
5. Free everything

Alternatively:

1. Punch every ugly person you see
2. Go to jail
3. Free everything
>>
>>978508
I've heard they don't gibe much welfare money unless you're missing both your arms or something.
Would only be $1k/month at most which isn't worth it when any job earns that in a week.

The second option seems ok but if you're not a huge nigger you might have to pay your way with your ass and sucking cock.

Fuck! There has to be a way to do nothing but receive money... There's got to be a way.
>>
>>978512
I'm obviously being facetious but I know what you mean man. I live with a roommate and we pay $800/month each for rent. I swear to God no one in my building fucking works. There's no one leaving in the morning, I don't know how these people pay rent.

There has to be a way.
>>
>>978520
Pisses me off that some nigger called Tyrone is sitting on a couch smoking weed and playing Xbox all day until his thumbs are tired while people like us work.

We should be getting free things just as much as Tyrone. Working sucks senpai...
>>
Coupons are pretty cool, actually.

Also buying consumer discretionary on Black Friday was a good idea for me. Saved 33% off a 1 TB SSD.
>>
>>978489

$30x2 = $60.
$60x50 = $3,000
$3,000/$100,000 = 0.03
0.03 = 3%

You would need to make 3% to breakeven if you had $100,000. But fuck that is high commissions. You can certainly do better. Pick an international broker. I pay $4.99/trade.
>>
>>978492

Most of those are large cap stocks, not growth stocks. And no they weren't all best performers. All of those are the most popular S&P 500 stocks out there. It wouldn't be unrealistic for somebody to invest in those.
>>
>>977957
>Buying Video Games
>Saving Money

Pick one
>>
>>978504
Bump

Cmon guys let's discuss how to get welfare
>>
>>978788

>be female
>be minority
>have 4+ kids by 4+ fathers
>>
>>977906
>Give yourself X amount of money a week and learn to budget
>Plan meals and buy in bulk
>Remember the best times to snipe deals at supermarkets are as soon as they open or near closing time
>Pirate vidya or play free shit like Nost
>Live with parents until they get pissed or you get enough to BUY NOT RENT a place
>Every 6 months look for better work or a raise
>Search for the best bank accounts if you're too lazy/poor to invest
>>
>>978854
>Search for the best bank accounts if you're too lazy/poor to invest

Can't agree more. My checking account with a local credit union offers 2.5% APR as long as I spend at least $250 and 10 transactions a month on my debit card. That's pretty much better than investing in bonds.
>>
>>978512
>Would only be $1k/month at most which isn't worth it when any job earns that in a week.
With the essential difference that in the former case you don't have to spend a third of your life doing shitty work. It's the not-working part that's great about welfare, not the money.
>>
>>978857
The best bit is that if/when central bank rates raise so will the bank accounts
Savings at this time is such a huge pain though
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>>978444
>I cost the average person in my country approximately €0.0004 a year.
how do you work that out?

Seriously, the mental gymnastics you have performed to justify your lifestyle in these posts is ridiculous. I'm not saying you have to work, who cares, but don't make out like you're doing the world a favour.
>>
>>978942
>how do you work that out?
Divide my yearly income over the populace.

>Seriously, the mental gymnastics you have performed to justify your lifestyle in these posts is ridiculous.
I merely wanted to demonstrate that 'the poor are taking all our money' is a silly meme and that people on welfare don't cost that much. It's not mental gymnastics in the sense that I secretly believe that my being on welfare is bad for others but want to defend my leech ways with sophisms. I honestly don't think being on welfare of some kind is bad. It's the future for the majority of people and an inevitable result of our production processes becoming more efficient. This 'everyone has to pull their weight or things will collapse' might have made sense in a hunter/gatherer tribe or among early agriculturalist, but in our current society it no longer makes sense at all. Most people work non-essential jobs and plenty of them work superfluous jobs. This weight they're pulling is an artificial one.

>I'm not saying you have to work, who cares, but don't make out like you're doing the world a favour.
I am, in a way. There are a lot of people who are unemployed who don't want to be unemployed. I am a person that is unemployed but wants to be employed. If I were to compete for a job I don't want with people that do want them, I would be at my own expense and theirs.

People should learn to get over their desire for employment though. It'll become an unrealistic expectation for the most of us.
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>>978956
*I am a person that is unemployed and wants to be unemployed
>>
>>978862
>It's the not-working part that's great about welfare, not the money

But if it's not enough money to live anywhere near a comfortable life it sucks ass.

You can earn $1k per week easily with a starting salary in any STEM field... Living on that per month literally can't afford you more than shelter, food and internet.

also there's a big problem I mentioned where if welfare for some reason changes and you're not eligible anymore you're left behind with 0 social skills, 0 experience, 0 marketable skills... So you're pretty much too old to do learn anything yet not old/rich enough to retire. Putting you in a tough spot.
>>
>>978239
That's bullshit
>>
>>978956
Honest question, do you have any friends or a girlfriend/regular sex?

I can't imagine how it must be to connect with people when you can't afford to do any recreational activities or have a job.

When people say "So... What do you do?", do you tell them you post on 4chan all day and eat junkfood at your parents' house or make up a lie about how you're an "entrepreneur" or "app-maker"? Must be terribly lonely tbqh. But I hope the <$10k/yr is worth it.
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>>978960
Well?

How do you tell people that you are a parasite? And how do they react?
>>
>>978956
>>978960
Well?

How does it feel to never achieve anything in your life and not be able to relate anyone? How does it feel to be a disappointment to your parents and probably never procreate? How does it feel to be a genetic dead-end?

I hope the <$10k/yr is worth it. At least you can always post on 4chan and cultivate mass to ignore the fact that you are a disappoint and a waste of life that never produces anything.
>>
>>978997
How did the guy indicate that he's a parasite though?
>>
>>979050
Because he doesn't work and has made up a clever explanation to himself why he's doing the world an honor by leeching.
>>
>>979053
Sounds like he managed to outsmart the system and you're just mad cause the shekels you pay in taxes will go to him. Honestly, good for him.
>in before another unemployed "leech", don't worry Im a fellow wage slave as well.
>>
>>979124
>Sounds like he managed to outsmart the system and you're just mad cause the shekels you pay in taxes will go to him

Uhhh "earning" less than $1k/month and sitting cooped up in your room all day with no skills isn't really outsmarting the system. That's a much worse lifestyle than working.
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>>979131
To each his own I guess. He won't be going to events or driving a nice ride (or any ride) making 1k/month, but if all the guy needs to be happy is vidya then he's already ahead.
>>
>>979135
>but if all the guy needs to be happy is vidya then he's already ahead

I've checked out /r9k/ before and they don't seem very happy.

They keep making threads discussing their depression, suicidal thoughts and how they have no gfs and no friends. They also keep trying to b8 people who work by making "le wagekek threads" which seems like a pretty pitiful existence.
>>
>>978971
>Honest question, do you have any friends or a girlfriend/regular sex?
I have plenty of friends and no problem getting women.

>I can't imagine how it must be to connect with people when you can't afford to do any recreational activities or have a job.
If you have nothing to talk about but your job you're a boring cunt to be honest.

>When people say "So... What do you do?", do you tell them you post on 4chan all day and eat junkfood at your parents' house or make up a lie about how you're an "entrepreneur" or "app-maker"? Must be terribly lonely tbqh. But I hope the <$10k/yr is worth it.
I tell them I'm unemployed. I really don't see the problem here. What you do for a living has little effect on how you interact with people, unless your interactions are entirely based around conspicuous consumption.

>>978997
>>979034
Calm down mate, I'm not refreshing this thread all day. This must really anger you. Do you honestly thing your average person with a job does notable and interesting things worth praising and remembering? Do you think being 'productive' is generally anything more than a buzzword? Most people aren't their jobs, they do their jobs in order to live a life outside of them.

How can you be so cynical about unemployment but so hopelessly naive about the working life?
>>
>>978960
Freudian slip mate

Your subconscious knows how much more wholesome and fulfilling being a normie is. Going to work and socialising with colleagues, meeting a nice woman and planning for a future together with your incomes, having children, taking risks and moving up in the world. Just having somewhere to be in the morning.

I hate it sometimes but I'm so much happier when I compare my life now to the brief spells of unemployment I've had. I know you're probably thinking 'all that stuff's pointless' and you're right but when you're busy and productive you have less time to dwell on those kind of thoughts. The kinds of things I mentioned above simulate the kinds of emotions that made hunter-gatherers happy and fulfill basic evolutionary desires. The NEET life is ultimately not a happy or satisfying one.
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>>979575
>I hate it sometimes but I'm so much happier when I compare my life now to the brief spells of unemployment I've had. I know you're probably thinking 'all that stuff's pointless' and you're right but when you're busy and productive you have less time to dwell on those kind of thoughts

This.

I remember when I was unemployed and i fucking hated it, constantly bored, angry, no money for anything. Sometimes having a job sucks but you don't even notice how much of a purpose it gives you and strangely enough makes your freetime more valuable.

Sitting playing videogames for 10 hours a day is incredibly boring and stale but when you've worked all week and you sit down to play 2 hours of videogames it feels amazing, like an orgasm when you haven't masturbated in weeks.
>>
>>979575
I should say also that when you're in the position of someone who 'plays by society's rules' you at least have hope that things will get better. Sure, most people don't achieve 'notable and interesting things worth praising and remembering' as you put it but most people live in hope that they will someday, that things will get better. It might be completely false but I imagine in your position you have little hope for a better life. It's just going to be more of the same for now until the next 80 or so years (who knows how long) and the older you get, the more hopeless your situation becomes. What prospects are there for a 40yr old who's been on welfare his whole life? How will you be able to relate to your peers who have achieved success in their respective fields (success being relative to the individual who achieves it, which, again, is something that generally makes people happy)?

I'm really not trying to win an argument here I'm just trying to share some thoughts that I've been having recently. I used to have the same attitude towards work as you but experience tells me that, for whatever reason, I'm happier with a job. I used to rationalise my position the same way (most peoples achievements are pointless/it's all meaningless anyway/why bother) It's perfectly possible that you're happy and if you genuinely are keep doing what you're doing. I just think you'll regret your choices when you're older and see what other people have achieved, however pointless you may think it is now.

Sorry for the essay
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>>978682

Atleast you'd be saving everyone else from spending time with you.
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>>979601
>>979598
>>979297

The truth is that both positions have some correct points. People strive to better themselves, it is human nature. However, the majority of 'modern' societies use employment status and income taxes as a means to social control. While the unemployed poster is free of the work schedule, labor and bosses, he is restrained by the constant lack of money that is necessary to function in modern society when competing with everyone else. The poster with the 50 hour work week is free to travel and see places, spend money on meals and live comfortably, but is restricted by his work week and authority figures.

It is naive to think the majority of jobs are superfluous but also to believe the system isn't flawed (at least in the US)
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>>979656
>but also to believe the system isn't flawed (at least in the US)

The system is how it is. It's called free market capitalism, you can't have something for nothing. To both be free but also earning money without effort is impossible in a logical, long-term society.
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>>979661

You are correct, everything has a cost. The problem arises when we are dependent on the use of a particular coinage to trade our goods and labor and certain parties have the ability to duplicate that coinage ad infinitum. Eventually people lose confidence in such a system
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>>979656
The trick is to get a job you enjoy

My dream is to start my own business. Making something yourself is pretty satisfying as is taking a calculated risk and it paying off.

I should just say as well I am not someone who's working a 50 hour week at all. I actually quit my job last week with nothing else to go to so I'm actually unemployed. I have loads of savings so I'm fine for money but in hindsight it was a pretty bad decision I made impulsively. I have an interview on Wednesday for a new job and I really hope I get it
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>>979575
For me it's the other way around, NEET life isn't perfect either but I'm generally much happier than when I worked or went to school.

You know that hunter/gatherers spent most of the day doing absolutely fuck all, right? Holding down a job, gathering possessions, caring about 'moving up', maintaining a nuclear family in a household and all those other 1950s values have little to do with the state we evolved in.

If anything, being a NEET living in a house with a bunch of people and obtaining and cooking food and doing some chores for three hours a day is closer to hunter/gatherer existence than the current normal way of living.

The thing that gives people such peace of mind about the normie life is that the entire current social structure supports it, but that doesn't mean it leads to health and happiness and it certainly doesn't make it more 'natural'.
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>>979601
There is more and more of a gap between me and my peers as time goes on since a lot of them have or want careers and family. I've never been envious of them though, and as time goes on I find myself only confirmed in my choices. If anything I'm seeing people getting caught up in obligations until there's nothing else left.

I'm happy every day that I don't have to work, that I'm not spending my time chasing after more stuff or bigger stuff or better stuff. And 'prospects' generally are merely new ways to chase after those things.

I find out that the more baggage I dump and the more I simplify my life, the happier I get.
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>>979690
>being a NEET living in a house with a bunch of people and obtaining and cooking food and doing some chores for three hours a day
At least you are with other people. When I was at university we all lived in a big house and, yeah, didn't do much with our time. I probably averaged 3hrs of work a day too and the situation was definitely more fun than working.

However, I did have a purpose (studying) that gave me a sense of achievement and something to look forward to/hope for the future but I can't imagine having that in your situation. Don't you get depressed about the future?

My preference for the normie life for me hasn't got anything to do with the peace of mind that the entire social structure supports it or anything that you mentioned. I'm just saying that from my experience, and I've been NEET and employed in shitty jobs, I was just happier with a shitty job.

Your situation probably isn't as bad as I'm making out because you have friends you live with and stuff so I can imagine you might be happy. Out of interest, what do you guys do in your spare time? What's a typical day? Are you all NEETs?
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>>979705

I applaud you for simplifying your life but i wouldnt get too comfortable. Such things werent meant to last and you will have to 'make your bed' somehow even when your old
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>>979705
Yeah materialism is not the path to happiness I totally agree. I think you're assuming I'm wanting to work so I can buy more and more possessions whereas what I'm actually advocating is work as an end in itself. I live very ascetic life (hence why I'm in this thread in the first place) and get pleasure, like you, from not having loads of stuff cluttering my life. Work gives you purpose and structure that is valuable regardless of the money it provides, that's what I'm saying. A major part of happiness comes from setting goals and achieving them. For many, these goals are within their jobs i.e. hitting their sales targets or whatever. For me my goal at the moment is to get experience, skills and money to start my own business. Setting goals and working hard to achieve them, even if they are arbitrary goals, makes me happy and, I'd wager, makes 99.99% of humans happy also. I think you're assuming work is always a means to some materialistic for which I can see why you'd think it's pointless. I'm not saying that though. I'm saying that it's an end in itself.

Pic related
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>>979690
>>979705
You never answered tho senpai.

What are you going to do if/when you can't be a NEET anymore? It's fine and dandy in your 20's but you're going to grow up and it won't get any easier to get started.
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>>979708
>However, I did have a purpose (studying) that gave me a sense of achievement and something to look forward to/hope for the future but I can't imagine having that in your situation. Don't you get depressed about the future?
I see the need for a purpose and a sense of achievement as the problem rather than a good desire to be fulfilled. I don't want to sacrifice my life to some objective but would rather that my life is its own reward, something worthwhile that doesn't need to take place dedicated to something beyond it. If I were to have a goal it would be goalless contentedness. People trying to root their happiness in a singular purpose tend to lose their shit when that purpose is somehow taken away.

>Your situation probably isn't as bad as I'm making out because you have friends you live with and stuff so I can imagine you might be happy. Out of interest, what do you guys do in your spare time? What's a typical day? Are you all NEETs?
I used to live with friends, but I'm back with my family now. That said, I like them at least as much as my friends, so the situation is pretty much the same if not better.

I just spend my days doing the necessary things like cooking and eating and cleaning and shitting and fill up the rest going for walks and talking to people and having drinks and reading books and that type of stuff. Probably what other people would do on their day off.

I honestly have a hard time comprehending how people have the time to sleep for 8 hours, work for 8 hours and still fit a fulfilling life in the little time they have left. Freedom from superfluous obligation seems much more essential to happiness to me than a job.

>>979721
What do you mean exactly?
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>>979724
>Setting goals and working hard to achieve them, even if they are arbitrary goals, makes me happy and, I'd wager, makes 99.99% of humans happy also

Life is an eternal struggle. Working brings a meaning and purpose to our otherwise useless lives. The great pay and all the benefits that come with it are just additional bonuses. It feels good to be part of a team and looking at your hard work and being awe-stricken by it...

I know that's not the case for some people but when you really enjoy your job AND it pays very nicely... Well you just struck the jackpot of life.
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>>979724
I guess that that's our ultimate difference: That you consider your redemption to lie in pushing the rock while my approach is to sit down and lean against it and enjoy the sun. Then again, you could see my sitting about as an endeavour in itself and your rock pushing as just another way to simply pass the time. Perhaps it doesn't really matter much in the end and we're both just trying to do what intuitively seems least shitty to us and we may both be right.

>>979725
I answered your question much earlier in this thread already:

>>978469
>The welfare state collapsing would be such a catastrophe to everyone involved that it simply won't happen short of the collapse of the state itself. In that case I'm no more fucked than your average office worker.
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>>979738
>I answered your question much earlier in this thread already:

I don't mean collapsing, I just mean for whatever reason the rules somewhat change or you personally want to stop being a leech.

I'm just saying I think you're severely limiting your options, whereas someone who works will have both a good amount of money to spend as they wish + experience + skills and you only have a small amount of money and nothing to show for it.

It is much easier to go from Worker -> Neet when necessary(if automation does come true) but nearly impossible to go from 5+ year NEET -> Worker.
>>
>>979738
>>979726
>I see the need for a purpose and a sense of achievement as the problem rather than a good desire to be fulfilled. I don't want to sacrifice my life to some objective but would rather that my life is its own reward, something worthwhile that doesn't need to take place dedicated to something beyond it.
That's fine but I think you're over-rationalising it. Unless you're some buddhist monk who's achieved enlightenment you can't just 'reason away' the nagging feeling that your life should have a purpose. You are totally right in a lot of what you say. It is all pointless from a logical point of view, but what I'm saying is humans aren't logical robots. Having a purpose and working towards it just satisfies some emotional desire.

What are your proudest achievements? Did you not get a good feeling when you achieved them? I'm not just talking about work but stuff like winning a difficult sports game or something. For me they're the same sort of thing. Both completely arbitrary but both provide a sense of purpose and achievement (work on a more long term satisfaction rather than pure joy sort of scale). Do you not feel like that is lacking from your life in some way?
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>>979740
>I don't mean collapsing, I just mean for whatever reason the rules somewhat change or you personally want to stop being a leech.
If the rules change in such a way that I will no longer get welfare that means other people in my position will no longer get welfare and that will mean that shit will hit the fan. I honestly don't see how it's an option except for some severe crisis.

>I'm just saying I think you're severely limiting your options, whereas someone who works will have both a good amount of money to spend as they wish + experience + skills and you only have a small amount of money and nothing to show for it.
That's true, but in that way it's somewhat like a 'calling'. Dedicating your life to writing or painting is risky as well, but for some people it will lead to a live more worth living than if they took the conventionally sensible path. At some point you have to choose what you want rather than doing the safe thing you hate to keep your options open forever.

>It is much easier to go from Worker -> Neet when necessary(if automation does come true) but nearly impossible to go from 5+ year NEET -> Worker.
I know what you mean though, the longer you're NEET the more the window towards any other future closes. But I've wanted to be NEET since I was a child and now that I'm NEET for five years I'm still happy with my choices.

There's always the chance that I will wake up middle aged some day and think 'what the hell have I done with my life?' but that happens to doctors and bums alike. In the meanwhile it seems best to choose to live the kind of life I love.
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>>979748
I honestly can't think of any achievements that I am happy with except for my ability to not get caught up in obligation and attachment. If there's any pride it's my contentedness in not trying to win games and achieve things and drive myself mad chasing things.

I do get a sense of satisfaction from certain everyday things, but if I make a pot of beans and rice or go for a walk in the morning that's more than enough for me. I can spend the rest of the day at ease.

I guess I am pretty monk tier compared to most people. I don't need much, and I enjoy steering clear of most of the things I don't need.
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>Honda civics last forever is right
>>
More? Anyone?
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>>980178
Dried beans and brown rice are your friends.
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>>979781
same

I don't even care to be filthy rich. All I want is enough money to have a shit load of free time and learn about everything.
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>>980315
Do those come with benefits? Like your mom.
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>>979781

Do you ever want to have kids?
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>>980378
No, certainly not.
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Never ever ever spend more that 20% of your net assets.
if you want to spend a 1000$, you should have at least 5000$ dollars
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