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Financial Independence

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>working until you're 60
>not buying high-yield dividend stocks
Is anyone following the path to financial independence / early retirement? Why are you not investing in dividend paying stocks? You can easily retire when you're 30 no problem. Currently saving 65-75% of my income and making $300/month tax free in passive dividend income. Plan to making $3000/month tax free in about 7 years. Probably shorten that to 3 years once I combine income with SO.
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>>1734572
nothing ever is tax free
>>
I am following this path, investing in dividend stocks to recieve passive income.

How can one feel rich when working a job? The only way to feel rich is by earning obscene amounts of passive income.

I want control over my time, and have enough dividends roll in every month to cover my needs.
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>>1734584
We have a TFSA in Canada (Tax-Free Savings Account) where capital and dividend gains are tax-free). I am pretty sure USA has the same thing. Also dividend income is not taxed if you're earning less than 50k in dividends per year. This is because dividends are already taxed by the business itself, so it's like the government is double-dipping. Your mileage may vary in the US.
>>
how much do you think investment will be at the time you are pulling $3000/month dividents from it?
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>>1734586
Same here, I love seeing my passive income increase every time I put more money. I also laugh at people who buy a brand-new 45k car when I can invest this money and earn about 400$ per month of extra passive income. My brain is literally hard-wired to feel dopamine when I save money.
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>>1734600
$300,000 give or take. I am heavily invested in REITs.
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>>1734611
What REITs do you have, I own OHI and WPC.
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>>1734595
those accounts usually have heavy limitations tho. also high fees at least here. basically you are paying the bank what you would be paying to the state it's a fucking joke man. maybe your country's system is less retarded i don't know.
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>>1734572
>living in poverty
I'm sure you'll enjoy all that money when you're an old and dried up man.
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>>1734572
I am following the basic strategy, but using the rule of 72 still puts me at least a decade or two away from that point.
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>>1734572
I did it. Used to save 95% of my income for some years. Stopped when i went to uni but in 2 years 'im done with my masters and ill start saving again.
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>>1734616
>Thinking expensive materialistic items make you more rich
I go to restaurants every week-end, travel 3 times a year to Europe/Asia/Caribbean and still manage to save 60% of my income. Also have everything I ever need/want. What do you mean by poverty? You seem confused.
>>
First time on /biz/ and this is the first thread I saw.

Been reading Mr Money Mustache for probably 4 years now, about to graduate college and finally start putting away some real money.

Anyone else /MMM/?

Is he generally respected on this board or is he more of a cuck?
>>
>>1734621
I have reviewed all his stuff.

It isn't bad but it is more of the same general advice that should be common knowledge but people are not interested in hearing.

0. don't accumulate tons of debt
1. save up a little for emergencies
2. invest everything else you can afford to
3. diversify
4. increase your skills and trades
5. practice good money management
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>>1734619
95% is pretty high man. Good perseverance. Masters should bring more money, so enjoy it :)

>>1734621
Haven't been in /biz/ for a while, I just see a lot of threads about get-rich-quick scams and I wanted to red-pill the board a bit on what is a true investment strategy. MMM is referenced a lot in the FIRE methodology, so he's good.
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>>1734620
Wendy's is not a restaurant, even if they do bring your order to your table.
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>>1734626
Yeah this pretty much. I think his appeal to me and everyone else is his particular no-bullshit way of re-introducing the basics to your face. Like, hey dumbass, have you ever thought about why you thought it'd be a good idea to take out a lease on a car you don't need?...etc

Actually, and he points this out in a lot of his posts, the real takeaway from his articles isn't the hard advice itself about saving and whatnot but more the philosophy of stopping any runaway accelerating psychological needs in their tracks, reassessing your priorities, and realizing how what you have already is sufficient and that the real investment would be better made by working harder at the fundamentals, like exercise, relationships, and related shit.
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>>1734609

I'm also like that, I don't want to have expensive things like a 45k car, if for less you can have one works just as well.

My goal is to live in a modest place, but making a lot lot of money month after month.
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>>1734609
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>>1734612
I only have Canadian REITs, but most of them are 9-10% yield. All of them are Office, Commercial and Industrial. Don't have any healthcare REITs, as you do.
>>
Question - how do you receive your dividends monthly? Do you invest in a plethora of different stocks that payout through the year, or do you invest in funds that pay monthly? Because most of the funds/ETFs I know pay quarterly
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>>1734626
yeah these things are nice, but he actually goes on ranting about bikes cars and whatnot for hundreds of pages.

which really have no relevance usually to his financial state. he had huge salary lived well below his means saved up and retired. if he bought a brand new bike every year and wore only armani suits it wouldn't have changed anything for the outcome.
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>>1734648
Kek'd
>>
>dividend stocks
>literally paying to incur higher taxes
This is how cucks think investing works.
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>>1734665
it all depends on how diversified you are.

For example, lets say you have 60% of your portfolio diversified between an index fund, an international index fund, and a bond fund. That leaves 40% to work with. Now lets say you put 20% into REIT and leave all those to reinvest in dividends.

That leaves 20% left over. You can further put more into the same, but if you feel the REIT asset class is too high in your portfolio (which it can be, most suggest 10-15% then you can have those dividends returned to reinvest elsewhere.

Myself I am trying to reach the point where I reinvest most dividends except for where the individual parts of the portfolio is a bit too high of a mix, and reinvest those into my own stock choices.

Because 60% is already diversified to a great amount and an additional 15% to 20% is in a different asset class, I can rebalance as I see fit. Also worth considering. Some discount brokers offer benefits for direct dividend reinvestment, like 10% reduction on stock purchase price so keep that in mind.

In my choices I decided that complete automation of the investing process is too boring at my current age so I manage about 10% myself for fun in dividend stocks I can pick and choose.
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>>1734648
> Spending $200 in a restaurant to show to your "friends" on Facebook that you're cool.
> Does not know how to make his own food, but has a kitchen.
> Believes materialistic items fills that void in his life.
Honestly, it's not Wendy, but that's besides the point. You seem to not understand the point of financial independence. It's not to live in poverty, it's about having "fuck-you" money when it comes to anything in life. It's about spending money that makes you happy (travel, hobbies, etc.) Not to buy crap to fill your McMansion. I can afford to go to fancy restaurants every day if I want to, but what is the point, honestly? Enjoy slaving your life away until you die of old age.
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>>1734665
to continue on your question, I pick several that are monthly and several that are quarterly. monthly dividends are plentiful.
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>>1734675
There is nothing stopping a person from investing those dividends into a tax friendly investment vehicle, like HSA or an IRA if they care that much about taxes. Most people that come to /biz/ will be in lower tax brackets anyhow and have nothing to fear from the tax man.
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>>1734655
supreme kek
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>>1734675
I haven't paid a single cent in taxes for my dividend stocks. Businesses are already taxed for their income, why would I be taxed again for receiving the taxed income of the business? Think about it. That's why dividends have no taxes or very little when you reach a certain threshold. Unless your government likes to double-dip on taxing you.
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>>1734692
>There is nothing stopping a person from investing those dividends into a tax friendly investment vehicle, like HSA or an IRA if they care that much about taxes.
Then it can't be spent, which seems to be the goal of the short-sighted noobs in this thread.

Besides, if you're going to lock your dividend stocks away in a tax-advantaged fund, then they have no advantage compared to growth stocks.

So there's literally no reason to specialize in dividend stocks.

>>1734705
Shut up Leaf. Things don't work that way in America.
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>>1734688

Cheers.

Do you not care much about capital growth of your stocks? I'm trying to go for a mix of growth and dividends, pic related. Because my broker charges £8 commission per trade I've decided to reinvest all dividends into an all world developed market fund
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>>1734572
About a 3rd of my investments are nice boring dividend stocks.

Thing is it's chump change compared to growth stocks. I want money to do shit with, not just some extra beer and gas money every 3 months.
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>>1734713
there is a huge advantage to an HSA account though. besides the tax writeoff, everyone has medical bills at some point, but if you don't, you can convert an HSA into a stock index fund.
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>>1734714
capital gains on stocks is irrelevant unless you withdraw or trade the funds. The only issue one could have is if withdrawing in a year where the capital gains will push you into a different tax bracket. Right now I am in a wait and see approach (no withdrawals or trades) until I see what Trump has planned in the US.
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>>1734730

I'm in the UK, these shares are within an ISA (tax free, but you can only put so much x principle per year).

But also, dividend yield is irrelevant unless you don't reinvest them, which kills the compound process. Unless your currently living off dividend yield, in which case good job
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>>1734730
oh another point, your 10% yield is 10% of the current stock price, so capital growth is indeed still relevant
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>>1734726
Or you could just start with the superior index fund right from the start, and convert to cash if and only what you need to spend.

>>1734730
>capital gains on stocks is irrelevant unless you withdraw or trade the funds.
Possibly the dumbest comment on the board all day.
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>>1734739
you are correct, but I value differently because I have less control when the majority is in an index fund and if I only buy and hold and keep my true stock holdings under 10%, then my results will not have a huge effect on my choices.
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>>1734630
I also lived at home so it was easier than now. Yeah when Im done ill save a lower % but more in total
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>>1734584
Inheritance is if you live in a first world country
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>>1734652
So much this

Materialism is nothing if it hurts you
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>>1734655
hahahahaha
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>>1734572
I am not exactly follwing for early retirement but more for financial independence. I own my own business and I love working on it. Hopefully seeing it blossom into something that I can be proud of. I'm 27 and my goal is that I could decide if I want to quit work at 40

> Investments
> RE 450,000€
> Stockmarket 15,000€
> Cash 25,000€ saving for down payment for next apartment
> Business value 0-300,000€
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>>1734652
>parents are already mortgaged out to fuck buying two houses living from paycheck to paycheck running a shitty homestay for the local uni

>mom gets it into her head she needs a NEW car, not a used car or anything like that, a NEW car
>a year after she bought a truck while she still has a perfectly functional mazda albeit high mileage
>try to talk sense into her
>NO I WANT A NEW SUBARU I'M OLD I DON'T WANT TO CARE ABOUT THE FUTURE
>bitch this is my future too, who do you think has to manage that debt from your assets if you drop dead tomorrow?
>NO I DON'T CARE I WANT A NEW CAR
>get dragged to the car lot just to vindicate family's delusions of grandeur
>now even deeper in the hole because mom couldn't content herself with a used car

Why are people so fiscally retarded? What possesses them to lose any sense of reality or the long-term when faced with muh desires?
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>>1734683
>discussion group

image discarded
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>>1735087
You don't inherit debt you dumbass.
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>>1735097
>what is the executor of the estate

point out which part of that post I implied i was inheriting any debt
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>>1734616
What a defeatist cunt little attitude.

When you are old broke and in bad health I'll be sure to toss some change down on you as pass by still strong and able.
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How do you get started investing in dividend stocks?
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>>1735097
>when somebody dies, all their debt just disappears but you get to keep the houses and the cars

Are you fucking retarded?
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>>1734621
He has general ideas like this guy says>>1734626

But at the end of the day, you gotta have a lot of breaks and be damned lucky to end up like him.
>>
Buy bitcoin and don't sell it, don't buy drugs with it, just hold it

Price dipped from $1150 to $800 lately thanks to commie chinks and nu male cucks who never learn

The price is only going to rise long term

>t. Smug bagholder since 2012
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>>1735335

Him and his wife together were both making between ~150k-200k for roughly seven years and only living on ~25k per year and then they lucked out with the stock market, which exponentially raised their savings.

That kind of life is not achievable in the short term. Even without their luck, it still requires roughly a decade of saving capital to get to get into a position that you can have a similar style of life.

You should be reading his forums for the philosophical advice he gives, not for specific financial and investing advice. The stuff he says about saving money through lifestyle changes, learning to be content, learning skills, focusing on your family, and removing materialism from your life, is all dead on.
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>>1735362
Most people don't make near that amount of money. And it all goes back to you gotta have money to make money.

Plus, like you said he was extremely lucky in the stock market. He accomplished a lot by saving, but you gotta admit he was mostly lucky.

As far as his philosophy goes, its easy to be that way when you have been lucky.

Had he not hit it big in stock, his wife would have left him for some Chad anyways. And she most likely cheats with Tyrone as it is.
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I think investing in a vanguard would be better long term than dividend stocks. You really need to take advantage of compounding if you are looking for long term gains.
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>>1735375
>>1735362
>start working right out of college
>keep expenses as low as possible because spending more doesn't actually make you happier
add hard mode (and because otherwise it'd be more complicated)
>never get a raise
>never figure out how to lower your expenses

You'd be free before you hit 35. And that's if you literally never get a raise, never reduce your expenses, and completely ignoring 401k and IRA contributions, which would make a huge difference.

In fact, with 401k and IRA, not to mention mortgage interest write offs... You're looking at closer to 31/32 years old by the time you're free.
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>>1735656

Those margins are too slim

MMM had almost double that when he officially retired from full time work

One correction or bad year starts drawing down on you.

You'd want to leave the house from time to time
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>>1735680

*you'd want to leave the house from time to time too, so you'd want more than just normal expenses without cutting more lifestyle
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>>1735135
investopedia, reading, research, reading, research
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>>1735357
I only have 1 BTC...


Anything really helps.
>>
I'm preparing a self-contained talk on efficient investing, although not directly related to financial independence I want to show that option.

Any points I shouldn't leave out of it? It will be 30-60 minutes long.
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>>1734611

wtf

please school me.. is this safe? is the asset worth less than a stock? i guess there's very little chance of appreciation (value gain on the stock) and so as a result they pay epic dividends to make up for it.

a house will never be worth as much as google

very interesting though.
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>>1734683
What platforms are you running this system of yours on? How did you get started? How young, into what path of education? Anything you consider a mistake that you could've avoided in retrospect?
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>>1735945
>Anything really helps.
i can stuff a bag of dicks in your ass if that helps
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>>1735656
7% yearly returns is also not as easy as it sounds.

Doesn't Warren Buffet have an avg. of about 20% per year?
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>>1736870
Invest in index funds. S&P500 or US total market. Anything else is retardation or gambling. Long term average 7% per year, but that's only over the last 150 years of market data so who knows how accurate that is, right?
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>>1736941
>7% per year
before taxes, and how much is it above inflation?
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>>1736941
It's not always gambling. My Russian investments returned 55% last year and I'm expecting even bigger returns from Russia this year with Trump getting elected. Obviously there was slightly bigger risk than something like S&P500 but there is also much bigger potential for return. If you're young you can afford to take slightly higher risks, just don't gamble on money you can't afford to lose.
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>>1737077
How is it not gambling?
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>>1737077
yeah and when I bet it all on red the other day I made a 200% return
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>>1737119
With gambling, the odds are stacked against you, the house has the edge.

With trading stocks, they generally tend to go up, you have the house edge, so to speak. Sometimes the house loses money with gambling, but with investing, even bad, misplaced investments tend to go up over time.

You generally only lose trading stocks if you go broke IRL and must sell stocks at a loss to survive, or you buy into a company and it goes bankrupt.

Index mutual funds are great, but they are only the 25th percentile of what you can do actively trading with an intelligent strategy. Warren Buffet suggests us plebs dollar-cost-average into index tracking mutual funds but he does not do that himself, he picks stocks and holds them, but that's his profession.

It's not hard to beat the market. It's easy to not lose money either, if you have a actual job and can wait out bear markets.

Its similar to gambling, but in reality, it's not. In blackjack you can't just keep your losing hand, hold your chips and wait until the dealer busts. With the stock market, you can.
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>>1737140
>but he does not do that himself, he picks stocks and holds them, but that's his profession.
He's the Oracle of Omaha. The reason he suggests index funds is because there is no other oracle around. However, hope springs eternal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwkjqGd8NC4
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>>1737119
>>1737127
Because you don't put it all on red like you would on an roulette table and hope for the best.

Russian situation has been in the up for pretty much a year. The embargoes won't go on forever and once they're lifted the economy will see a massive upswing. Tbh I wasn't even expecting as big returns now as I've been getting and was willing to hold with average returns for a year or two before it swings up in full force, all while buying more all the time. Trump has already hinted at buying favors from Russia with their embargo. Once US gives up on their embargo EU can give up theirs by buying something from Russia with it.

>but they'll never lift the embargoes
Everyone knows Russia will never give up Crimea without actual armed intervention from major western factors. That will never happen as it's way too costly for everyone involved. So politicians will use the embargoes as bargaining chips while negotiating something with Russia. And furiously wave their fingers at Putin for being such a bad boy while lifting the embargoes and making bank on the market while doing so.
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>>1737170
I literally bet it on red 3 times and won. There's no reason to assume that I will stop winning anytime soon.
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>>1734572
What website do you guys use for longterm investments? I was thinking of using Plus500 but it has overnight premiums
>>
Have you people purchased a home, or do you rent (and use the money to invest in stocks)?
>>
>>1737140
>>1737170
It's gambling. Whatever attempts to rationalise this won't change the fact.
>>
>>1737311
And you shouldn't go outside either because you're gambling with your life that a car won't hit you.
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>>1737319
Is that seriously the best you can come up with? Don't you read what you type before pressing "Post"?
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>>1737306
If you're going for financial independence, you have no reason not to own a home. Right now I wouldn't buy; we're at a new high, wait a year or two for the market to come back down.

If you rent, you will never be financially independent because your costs will never stop increasing. Rent payments go up, 3-10% per year. Mortgage payments do not.
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I always wondered, do you just get dividend for holding stocks somewhere? Or is it specific kind of stocks or somewhere, you have to buy for that?
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>>1737359
Some stocks do pay a dividend to those who hold them. Not all of them.
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>>1737371
Yeah ok. Assuming I buy apple stocks.
Do I have to buy at least some amount to get the dividends?
If I buy them anywhere, do I get the dividends?
Or there are proper brokers that give you the dividends, and some just pocket that without you even knowing you got them?
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>>1737386
How much dividend is paid depends on each instance, but it's a fixed amount per share. So how much dividend you get is determined solely by how many shares you have.

Some companies issue different share types (Google did this. I don't know how it goes now with the Alphabet thingy).

>Or there are proper brokers that give you the dividends, and some just pocket that without you even knowing you got them?
I don't know what to say to this. Dividends are usually paid quarterly. If I held a distribution fund I would watch closely that the full dividend minus the possible fees make it into my account.
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>>1734611
12% /yr is like above corporate bond levels bro
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>>1737329
Everything worth doing is a calculated risk, aka a gamble, you boring autistic cunt.
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>>1737311
The entire stock market is gambling. You can lose it all if shit hits the fan properly. That said you can limit your risks by choosing investments that have smaller risk. S&P500 isn't risk free, it just has smaller risk than some random penny stock.
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>>1737717
>you boring autistic cunt
You should learn to separate "having fun" and "investing". Playing with money is harmful to one's finances.

>>1738288
>The entire stock market is gambling.
>You can lose it all if shit hits the fan properly.
Say I buy the entire stock market (through VTI, for instance). How is that gambling? How can I lose it all if the shit hits the fan?

If I were to lose it all by investing in the aggregated stock market, my money would be the last of my concerns, since that would mean that the world as we know it has shat itself.
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>>1736941
You forgot the additional 3-4% from dividends, but then again those are taxed.
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>>1738312
>US stock market with S&P500 and total US stock indexes are the only indexes in the world
Who said you have to buy individual stocks? And yes even when you buy the entire market there is risk involved but as you said I'm not that worried about that risk. Diversifying reduces your risk. Yes investing is a calculated risk, if you invest wisely the risk is pretty small but you can't claim it isn't there.

So let's say someone buys some non US index after researching the situation on that market. Is the risk higher than S&P500? Probably yes, however that doesn't mean it's gambling in the sense of putting money on a roulette table.
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>>1734913 not in normal senpai
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>>1735656
be thankful you didn't inherit her stupidity.
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>>1734572
Too fucking slow and boring.

Paying for past me'so financial fuckups.

Still learning asset protection so some jew doesn't get my money when I figure out how to make it.
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>>1734586
GAWD the amount of money in stocks you'd need would be like saving it ina bank and living off the interest
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>>1734655
This are magic eye but hard on ohone. Bis it the number 11? I don't fucking get it
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>>1734673
This thing is like multi layered and giving me a seizure. Can u explain why kek?
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>>1734675
LOL.

Well, they are doing better than the average Joe even if they are fucking retarded.
>>
>>1735087
That's why you ask for anything valuable rather in $$$ or sentimental now. When she kicks the bucket tell uncle Sam to suck a dick.
>>
>>1735656
Fuck a 401k. I am not buying mutual funds or watered down stocks.

Mutual fund don't have to divulge what the operating fees are. Why u think all the rich guys are hedge fund managers.

Talk about KEKING yourself.
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>>1739199
>what are low fee index funds

Even if its a mutual fund with bad fees if your company matches your still way ahead. Just meet your match.
>>
>>1734613
>>1734595
They are not really retarded, the problem is that most normies don't want to invest time understanding the finance world, so it is easier for them to just pass the problem of their retirement to the government, that is why if you see the advertising for this instruments the words they use are extremely simple, baiscally: give us your money and in 30 years you will have some to retire.
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>>1738860
Did you mean to reply to someone else?

>>1739199
what >>1739229 said

Investment matching from your employer will always beat making "better" investments.

ETFs (ie low cost, automated index funds from Vanguard or SPDR) will always beat mutual funds.
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>>1734616
>Falling for the consumist meme and being a debst slave, but complaining about the jews.
>>
>>1739399
what i found in my country is as follows:
pension programs that are tax exempt if you run them through (and we are talking about an 18% tax on the yield here) so that's 1.8% if your yield is 10% and 0.9% if your yield is 5%.

so if you actually go into a pension program you pay up to 3.5-4.25% in the case you want the option to withdraw your funds at the age you are eligible to pension, if you want instead an alimony payment if can actually get as low as 1.8%.

you have to pay these fees however even if your funds don't yield anything or go into a dive any given year.

do the math! it's fucking bullshit!
>>
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>>1736389
>platforms
none, i simply read news articles, check entire history of the company, and read their annual and quarterly reports before deciding to invest.
I use shareholders online, vanguard and robinhood.

>experience
I gained my expertise from self study from investopedia, vanguard principals and other money blogs already stated over the years. I wanted to escape the debt trap of my parents and made all my choices based on safer investments but moved to an aggressive portfolio once I had a better understanding of the market.

I got started once I realized there was no point in having a bunch of money sitting in a dead end savings account. I started with just 1k in a vanguard account.

>age
Currently 38, been investing since 32.

>education
average, finished college, payed off debt already

>Anything you consider a mistake that you could've avoided in retrospect?
Not investing immediately at 18 was the biggest mistake, even if it was only 20 dollars a week per paycheck. Each year that I put off investing until post 30 caused a huge potential loss. It can't be helped though, Without good knowledge in that time period it would have taken a miracle for me to realize it.

Other mistakes, being too conservative at the start is a mistake. As long as you have faith in the market recovery, there isn't any reason to not go full market index fund to start out.

Other mistake was not studying financials at an earlier age. It is incredibly boring at that age though and people these days have all the wealth and knowledge of the internet available to them. Back then, I would have had to wade into a ton of common pitfalls, outdated books, bank fees for the help investing, scams were more common.
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>>1737301
Plus500 is a scam

From what I heard they use your money to place bets on stocks instead of actually investing it.
>>
Investing at 32 isn't all that old to start investing, considering many folk retire with no money besides maybe a pension. That's great you have your college debt paid off!

I started investing at 23 with only $100 in the stock market. I used that money to learn, and you learn quick. I've dabbed in currency and really enjoy it, though its a wild ride. Im just getting in to bonds... learning about the differences between corporate and government currently.
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