Why isn't /biz/ becoming a Tradesman? Don't you guys

>>1023949
This is /biz/, not /wageslave/

>>1023951
But why don't you want to do backbreaking labor for a pitiful wage?

>>1023957
Well /biz/?

Why don't you want to fuck up your joints and get a fat ugly wife for a terrible wage?

What? You don't like to work with your hands until they bleed and be stupid as a brick and unable to do highschool-level mathematics?

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>>1023969
Reported for troll thread. I know it's you, faggot.

>HURR MUH 30 DOLLARS AN HOUR

>>1023969
Most tradesmen are in great shape. Unlike you NEETS who major in STEM or /biz/ness

>>1023951
No this is /lieabouteverything/

>>1023975
Fix my toilet you retard

>>1023989
What's wrong with it?

>>1023992
Pipes are fucked

But srsly though it's pretty funny how the look on women's faces changes when you tell them "Yeah I fix toilets for a living". That's assuming they aren't already turned off and disgusted by the "bluecollar worker gut", as they call it.

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>>1023997
Who said I fix toilets for a living?

>>1023949
because i dont have an in anywhere

>coworkers keep saying i should go for X because it pays nearly 6 digits
>look into it
>get excited and make it my goal
>realize i dont know anyone in that industry

>>1024003
You don't need to know anyone to get into an apprenticeship, dude. Just fucking go to the union and see if they're accepting applications. If so, take the aptitude test. If you pass, you get an interview. If you pass the interview, there ya go.

>>1023999
I know you're a NEET as you have admitted, but you know what I mean.

>>1024003
Don't listen to him, he has not done what he keeps claiming is "so easy".

>>1024010
Never said it was easy. It's doable though. The fuck is your problem, bro? You need to get laid or something. www.backpage.com

There, I helped

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>>1024007
>the union is an in
thanks anon, I never even considered this. I'll have to give this some thought

unions are amicable with each other, right?

>>1024016
What do you mean? Like friendly with each other? It depends. Most trade guys aren't about bullshit like you see in regular jobs. They're there to get a job done and that's it. If you get in with a union, they have your back and fight for you.

http://www.electricaltrainingalliance.org/

In case you want to be a sparky.

>>1023949
Toronto electrician here. It's a decent trade and I'm glad I picked this one. Sort of evolves with the times instead of being a drywall monkey or a plumber or something.

Around 100k for being under 30 isn't bad at all regardless of what most of /biz/ says. Most males my age in this city, 28, have enormous debt or 50k deskjobs at most. I also spend more time on my hobbies and interests than I do at work and never really do anything 'backbreaking.' meh/10 not terrible.

>>1023975
Wait why are we talking about 30/hour like it's brag worthy? If you translate my salary to hourly it's about $40 and my financial future is bleak. Going to take me 15-20 fucking years to pay off a mediocre house or condo.

>>1024055
>Going to take me 15-20 fucking years to pay off a mediocre house or condo.

That's why you rent like a non-retard.

>>1024051
>The average yardless house is over 1m and the average late 20s makes 50k.

Holy fuck Toronto is actual Hell. MA doesn't seem so bad anymore.

>>1024028
>They're there to get a job done and that's it
this is entirely the attitude my job calls for and i love it but i want six of these $

>>1024057
>rent for 15-20 years
>dont own a mediocre house or condo

wowee gee that sure is helpful anon

>>1024072
>Take on expensive mortgage
>Put all your money into one home in one part of one country
>Le all eggs in one basket
>Get cucked on maintenance fees + taxes
>Tied to home, eventually have to try to sell it, which might be a lot harder than you think
>This is assuming housing prices don't fall, as they have many times before in which case you need to wait even longer for them to recover just to move

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>>1024080
>all your eggs end up being worth money
>buying high and selling low
>getting conned

>>1024080
housing prices have fallen many times, but more often than not the value of a home increases over time. The maintenance, fees, taxes and all of that stuff are a definite downside of owning a home, along with the risks you mentioned. However, when I moved I had the option of renting some home or apartment for $1000/month, or buying a home for an $800/month (if I took a 30 year mortgage). To me, purchasing a house made a lot more sense. I had just finished renting an apartment for 4 years and spent a ton of money that I never will see again.

I guess It depends on the individual situation, but I feel like buying a house is usually the way to go.

>>1024090
>I guess It depends on the individual situation, but I feel like buying a house is usually the way to go.

The opposite actually. Most of the time renting is far superior whereas buying a home is better in only some cases(most of which have to do with buying it outright in cash which requires you to be quite wealthy).

The interest on mortgage + maintenance costs + fees + other downsides strongly make it undesirable in many situations.

>>1024089
What are you talking about? You can't control house prices, especially many years down the line.

People tend to only look relatively short-term...

>House prices in my area have gone up for the last 5 years! This is great!
When in reality if you look more long-term you'd see that they more or less matched inflation.

>21 years old
>renting 22 grand trailer
>after 2 years complex will take 1 year of collected rent payments and use as intial down payment for loan if I choose to buy at the end of my lease
I'll have enough by then to buy it in full and rent it out my self
Anyone got any tips for renting out a trailer?

>>1024066
You'll get there in time, bro. Once you become a master electrician or a electrical contractor, you'll be seeing six figures.

>>1023957
>>1023969
O-OP? I'm confused

>>1024097
You know what disregard post
Not the right thread for this my apologies

>>1024095

Person A has spent $100,000 after renting for many, many years and now has 0 houses

Person B has spent $100,000 after paying a mortgage for many, many years and has 1 house.

>>1024111
I'd rather have the fucking house.

>>1024107
Welcome to this NEETS thread he's been doing this retarded shit all fast day

Unionized electrical apprentice here.

>Electrician Journeymen make $40/hr minimum

Wrong. Your wage depends on where you, who you're working for, what you're doing, and whether you're union or not. If you're in a right-to-work state, you'll more than likely only be making half that even if you're union.

There's periods of unemployment too, for both union and nonunion guys. Not only is it a seasonal job, it's at the mercy of the construction market. Because of this, many tradesmen have to travel to find work. At my current job, many of my fellow construction workers (not just electricians: plumbers, insulators, carpenters, etc.) commute for two hours to and from work.

However, there are some electricians who build a good enough relationship with their contractor that they avoid getting laid off. Better still, they're usually given ample overtime. A foreman in this situation can easily make six figures a year (my current foreman does). It requires having the right personality, though. Being a successful tradesman, believe it or not, requires soft skills. If you can't get along with coworkers, please your contractor, and provide good customer service, you're going to be among the first to go when the foreman receives a memo to start laying people off.

>and if you start a business afterwards it's MINIMUM $120k/yr?

You could start a business. But running a business and being a good tradesman are two different things. I work with a couple of electricians right now that used to own their own businesses, but failed.

Don't get me wrong: it's a great career, especially if you're in a union. I get pension, annuity, and insurance through my union. I can also make money off of side-jobs, if I choose to. But for most, it isn't a money making career.

>>1024095
>buying a house for investment by looking at how much it's risen instead of by how much it's fallen
see this kind of retardation is why people lose their homes

>>1024111
That's assuming it's the same costs. Which it is not in most cases.

You'll pay like 3x the cost of the house over the course of the mortgage in addition to taxes, fees, inconvenience, etc. Whereas you could've rented with 0 headaches and simply shoved that money into an Index Fund and come out on top over having some huge monstrosity they need to somehow sell now.

>>1024114
If it isn't a money making career than what is?

>>1024114
B-but the other NEET poster in the other thread said that you make $40/hr minimum as a journeyman.

>>1024119
Being an electrician.

Minimum 6 figures, as you've said.

>>1024120
Your fooling everyone dude really

>>1024124
Are you fucking done yet?

>>1024051
yup. houses are impossible alone unless you're basically a millionaire.

I live in a newer condo in the suburbs. living is cheap and it allows me to prepare to buy another property soon.

>>1024119
It's a living. If you want to make money, start a business. If you want it to be trades related, become a contractor and hope your workers don't organize. Or that your workers don't fuck the job. Or that another contractor doesn't fuck you. Or that the customer doesn't fuck you.

Non-union contractors have 10-15% profit margins on jobs; union ones only make 1-2%. The opportunity is there.

>>1024131
Done with what?

You said you make minimum 6 figures as an electrician and now you're questioning whether it's true or not.

>>1024134
So I should basically just go to college then, right?

>>1024136
bruh I know it isn't true. Should I just go to fucking college and forget about the whole trade thing?

>>1024114
Where are you and how depressed is the economy that you'd have to travel that far? If you're a sheep and rely solely on construction to place you here and there and go along with it, then you're not going to do very well in the long run. Learn and get out there and start doing sidejobs and networking.

IBEW 353 5th terms are making around 100k, not even licensed yet. What's your local? Not sure what you mean by seasonal for this line of work. I haven't stopped working for more than however long I take my vacations since I started the trade 7 years ago.

What term are you? Things get better

>>1024143
No become a construction worker, it's worth it. Women love men who are strong and work hard and have a beer belly and are uneducated.

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>>1024154
I was being serious.

>>1024137
>implying the decent trades (electrician, plumber, HVAC, etc. don't require education)

An apprenticeship is basically like going to college, as far as I'm concerned. The time investment is about the same (5 years minimum until you're recognized as a "Journeyman") but the tuition isn't outrageous.

You get an education, too. Even if you end up dropping out of the trade, you can easily apply the skills and knowledge you gain to other fields. In fact, many union apprenticeship programs (including my own) provide college credits towards engineering programs upon completion.

>>1024156
Yes idiot go to College.

It's not a fucking meme, Trades has a low barrier of entry and every retard goes into it. You'll literally be competing with every uneducated moron that you can remember in your HS whereas if you major in STEM or Accounting/Finance you'll be competing with people who can actually pass 3rd and 4th year accounting courses.

>>1024161
Alright then. What for? I was thinking like dental hygiene or something health related.

>>1024161
>t. someone from a non metropolitan area

>>1024152
I've been working consistently since I started in the apprenticeship. My local has a boom of work going on right now, but this wasn't the case less than a decade ago (though I wasn't around then). My post came from my observations and conversations with tradesmen on my job.

As I said, location plays a big part. If you're lucky enough to be unionized in an area that has consistently been growing -- good for you. But there are very many places in the United States that just have jack-shit going on.

I won't reveal my local, but our journeymen make $33.30 an hour (not including benefits).

> If you're a sheep and rely solely on construction to place you here and there and go along with it, then you're not going to do very well in the long run. Learn and get out there and start doing sidejobs and networking.

I covered this in my post. Success beyond earning a living in the trades depends on soft skills. I'm just trying to combat the meme that the trades are an easy path to six figures.

>>1024182
What region of the country are you in? Can you at least reveal that, secret agent man?

>>1024174
t. Alberto Barbosa

>>1024185
New England.

>>1023949
>Why isn't /biz/ becoming a Tradesman?
i kek'd, thanks op

>>1024188
Got it.

>>1024187
What do you think about nursing, finance anon?

>>1024195
Nursing isn't that good.

Enjoy working next to countless women, cleaning old people's asses and shit like that.

>>1024203
What health care career would you recommend then?

>>1024210
None.

They're all stressful and unworth it unless you genuinely enjoy them for some reason.

>>1024213
Then what do you recommend for a dude that's not great at math?

>>1024216
To get better at math.

Everyone is "not great at math" until they put effort into it and learn.

>>1024217
Fuck it. I'll go to school for automotive or some shit

>>1024221
Wouldn't it be easier to just learn it instead of finding ways to avoid the subject?

Whatever. Your life, not mine.

>>1024221
if you're this indecisive about your future and asking the internet to influence your next step in life then your future looks bleak.

Confidence and determination are valuable. Pick something that you think you'll enjoy, will be in demand, and will pay. Do it. Get good at it.

>>1024224
Because I can't stand it.

>>1024225
I took a career test at vocational rehab and it gave me a bunch of jobs that I'd be a good fit for but they don't pay a lot of money.

>>1024228
Career testing is a thing? Jesus. Talk about being controlled

>>1024226
You're not even giving it a chance though.

It's the same as evaluating a movie based on the opening titles. You probably have not gotten very in depth into math, to any parts that actually matter or solved cool problems yet. Once you see how math actually relates to subjects and what it can show us you might find a new appreciation for it.

>>1024226

You're acting like you're scared of numbers, for fuck's sake. Quit being a pussy.

>>1024134
This is not accurate at all. I've worked for a union contractor for the past 10 years and have seen some unreal profit margins, like 100% on projects over 20k. If you're solely bidding jobs time and material + 10-15%, you're going to fail.

>>1024241
Scared of numbers with letters.

>>1024249

Just go on khanacademy until you stop sucking at algebra. That way there's zero pressure, it's just you and the problem.

>>1024253
This.

Just download a good intro to math book and use khanacademy for anything you're stuck on. It's super-easy to learn in this day and age.

>>1024256
What about Wolfram Alpha?

>>1024258
That's just for solving shit. Try to use it as little as possible and work through problems yourself. Use it if you're stuck though.

>>1024260
Did your finance curriculum have a lot of hard math in it?

>>1024266
Not really hard if you have a decent grasp of mathematics beforehand.

It's certainly no actuarial math or pure math major.

>>1024276
I see

I'm a skinny nerd, I feel like trades are the best path for me but as a skinny nerd I don't know if I would "last".

eh I'm always so indecisive, that's probably why I'm still cleaning for 4 hours a day, 5 max.

>>1024399
try a softer trade. There's a lot of skinny trades guys. You could probably make use of your little butt to make some cash too. A tradesman's gotta unload ya know?

>>1024401
What do you mean "softer trade"?

>>1024405
programming

>>1024409
Not interested, though IT is one of my main interests I don't know if it's the best path.

>>1024412
i should say I know I shouldn't wait for the best path, what I really meant was I don't think it's the right choice.

>>1024405
hvac, electrical, autobody, there are others. I guess this is pretty subjective. Avoid anything too labor intensive. Sometimes being small is good. You could probably do alright as a welder, I see no need for a lot of strength in the job, except for moving workpieces I guess.

I was gonna go for a "soft trade"/"your butt" kind of joke but I lost interest part way through.

Heating and cooling is a license to steal.

Think about it... people call you in the middle of winter when the furnace is out or in the middle of summer when the AC is out.

They will pay whatever you charge.

>>1023949
Sorry, we're not falling for your obvious meme that has been BTFO countless times.

>>1024421
Thanks.

a little offtopic and blogish but I'm interested in this for a few reasons, one of course is obvious: a good career. the other is all the tradesmen I've met are happy, funny, enjoyable guys. I said above that I clean, I clean a court, but also the public works building and my favorite person is the maintenance guy, it could be just his personality but that's someone I want to emulate.

>>1024426
enlighten me before I ruin my life.

Trades > Stem
Wolf of Wallstreet was originally based on a tradesman until they changed it into some ib faggot

>>1024487
Going to need a source for that.

>>1024431
there are problems with trades

the bar is low/lots of idiots/redneck types
pay is good but hits a ceiling quickly
is labor intensive/hard on the body(this is dependent on a bunch of stuff though)
it also doesn't leverage--that is to say, you can't produce passive income this way or scale up really. You can hire more staff/apprentices though I guess. And there's management. and that depends on the trade, like independent mechanics and stuff are becoming less common.
also repairs are becoming less common too, it's more like "replace this chinese made part because it costs less than the labor to repair it"

>>1024495
This.

>>1024495
I'll say though that you mentioned the attitude of the cleaner-- this is actually pretty significant. I can tell people to fuck off if they bother me, there is jostling and shenanigans, also I don't really have to shave much, and generally there isn't any passive aggressive bullshit. So if you don't want to be a well groomed office worker surrounded by neofeminists all day leaving you insecure and unstable then working in a shop might be a better choice. at least confrontation is acceptable in a shop, not the hugfest-in-a-tailored-suit that is the professional world

>>1024495
I agree, but I'm pretty dumb anyway, I used to be good in school but that's all faded away.

pay can't keep rising for every job, I fail to see how this is a problem.

a concern I expressed on my first post of this thread.

I'm not a businessman

but you need someone to replace it, and somethings have to be repaired and can't be replaced.

>>1024503
yeah but I basically am that way, I'm a huge pushover and truthfully I basically never swear, except on 4chan and the internet, though never on personal social media like facebook. like I said bloggy as fuck.

>>1024507
how old are you
do you live in a large city
are your parents financially supporting you/able to contribute in the future

You really need to rule school out as an option first if you're really young and said yes to the other two questions. because post-sec can get you executive/higher positions after some experience and that brings perks and higher salaries and security, etc. If you can't/won't succeed at STEM or whatever then trades are a good choice, I don't think I'd make it my first choice because you can fall back on trades pretty easily. The other thing is how much debt it would require to go to school and you'd have to assess that risk.

>skinny nerd
>huge pushover
yeah you might get eaten alive, but it's sink or swim.

>>1024497
But I've been told that if you struggled with highschool math then its impossible to graduate through a STEM field. So anon and I might not have a choice.

>>1024518
21
grand rapids, 2nd biggest city in michigan.
yes/no they're paying for my sister's college

by school I literally meant high school, never been to college, not even for a visit. plus near the end I started getting Cs and Ds because I was that kid that never did homework.

I just don't want to do what my dad wants me to do which is retail. That is not something I want to do.

>>1023977
Surely a joke. Most tradespeople of age i have seen are in awful shape and lead horribly unhealthy lives

>>1024095
Thread derailed, but wrong on all accounts. Renting is throwing money away most of the time and is only odeal for those with no money for a house deposit. If you can mortgage a house for a similar price to renting you are better off buying so at least the money is going somewhere useful.

And if you look at historical figures you'll see house values outstrip inflation long term fairly significantly.

>>1024532
Tell that to those that bought into stocks in 1929 and didn't see a return until 1954. Housing is a market, it's not the goose with the golden eggs ffs. It's a bet, and a large one sided one at that. Also not relevant to the thread.

Anyway I think I got ID:R5 and R7 mixed up. So keep that in mind with my posts. I am a tradesman though, figured I'd give my two cents

Because I'm not lower class.

>>1024535
You're not buying a house (or shouldnt be for a first home) as an investment, you are buying it for a place to live. Why have the instability and difficulty of renting for 800 a month with nothing at the end of that when you could spend 1000 a month but own the house instead of the money going to someone else fortunate enough to own the house you are renting. Seems fairly obvious really

>>1023949
Water Treatment is a better job.

>>1024535
R5 here, moved to my phone.

Thanks for the help. Truthfully I've always had a problem with self esteem so I don't know what I'm capable of. I'll really never know unless I try, which is the hardest part for me. I don't know why, stuff usually goes well. Just a pessimist I guess.

>>1024546
I doubt you're a pessimist, more like the product of a disinterested education that turns everything into some kind of hoop to jump through. If education taught experiences it would be much more useful. you probably just don't know what you want to do because
1. you never have actually stuck your neck out and done something, and
2. you've never lost that feeling. Nothing makes you value what you want like losing it

Get your esteem issues sorted, that's priority one. See a therapist, join a club or something, get that shit resolved. Your uncertainty will hold you back far more than your actual shortcomings, I know this from experience.

>>1023977
>most tradesman are in great shape

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

WEW I'M DYIN OVER HERE LAD

>>1023949
Because my gf has a masters degree in Engineering, i cant be worse than her

>>1024692
But does she have a job?

>apprenticeship in plumbing
>300$/hr starting
>any contract I want

>$40/hr minimum

no

I took this route, got paid $46 an hour for federal contract jobs at some base up in bum fuck New Mexico and ended up getting paid to sleep the entire time. I think I welded 10 pieces of metal the whole 5 months I was employed.

Probably have cancer now though so it's give and take.