> be me > lawful good paladin > find out about evil death cult > not on my watch you niggers > they plan on sacrificing a virgin to some death god or some shit idk > sneak into temple > find virgin sacrifice > make conversation > she wants to be sacrificed > the fuck?! This bitch must be charmed or something > use my unreasonably high charisma to reason with her > she has none of it > party tries to convince me to just kill her > I consider it but I just can't kill this young girl > I have only one option left > I rape the shit out of her > everyone horrified irl > mfw
>>739255661 Holy shit no wonder you couldn't persuade her. You could barely form a fucking sentence. Doesn't matter if your charisma is 25 if you are just grunting and pointing.How do you even use a weapon?
>>739256535 How big is the party you play with?I miss playing D&D with 6 or so people. I just don't care enough for it anymore. If you don't have premade characters turning up to a campaign, you spend all fucking night making characters.
Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have a consequentialist moral system you faggot. You broke alignment regardless of what the outcome was. Your DM is a little bitch if he gave in and you're a faggot rules lawyer who would never play in my game again.
>>739257074 Well I wouldn't play in your game because you sound like a faggot. Like the type of DM who has to kill everyone's characters because he can't cum without fulfilling his faggoty power fantasy.
>>739257254 You literally don't understand how the game mechanics of your chosen class work. The paladin is the most restrictive class in the game, it's not an excuse for edgy faggots like you to be argumentative and try to find moral loopholes. Rape is evil, period. I wouldn't kill your character but you'd fall from paladin grace fast as fuck.
>be me >Anti social elf ranger in a party of social butterfly's who won't shut up >we also have a half elf bars >campaign is going very good, meet up with a zombie anti paladin with an ice sword >in typical bard fashion >"I roll to seduce the antipaladin zombie" >dm allows it, even though both of us being experienced d&d plyers know you can't seduce undead >he crits >my ranger is the only one in the party that failed the role >mfw my ranger has a slow but growing attraction to the bard
>>739257553 Why could you not make that argument? His low intelligence he didn't understand the well defined parameters of good and evil and thought that this was the least evil course of action. It fits perfectly.
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
D&D and other fantasy worlds do not use subjective, consequentialist morality. This is an absolute fact. There are actual deities and actual specific alignments assigned to specific acts. There is some wiggle room but not enough for this faggot's story. Also I'm pretty sure that never happened and he's just telling a made up story for attention because he doesn't have enough friends to play D&D.
>>739257618 I've played D&D for almost my entire life and I've never met anyone retarded enough to accept this argument. It's not about being the arbiter of reality. It's about this loser's fake story being completely full of shit just like his reasoning. "6 Int means I can get away with rape!"
>>739257856 I wouldn't rage over the table, I'd handle it easily: the paladin falls from grace, the alignment changes to lawful neutral, and we move on. No arguments out of character over bullshit that doesn't matter.
>>739257996 A paladin cannot even tell a lie to save a life. Literal Kant-level moral requirements. If you don't like it, play a different class. Paladins are weak anyway. This is just grand standing and trying to impress others with an annoying faggot argument.
>>739258234 Yes, willingness is a core part. Mind control, mistaken info, etc are all valid excuses, but "it was for the greater good that I raped her so she wouldn't get sacrificed" doesn't count as it is a completely willing act.
>>739257978 >tedious cunt can't even English Lord over a table >I wouldn't rage. >I played dnd all my life (and spend the rest on the chans) Fuck right back off you fa/tg/uy. We are just shit talking here and you're cunting it all up. Just start all your future posts with "well, actually..." so we know what sort of shit stain we are dealing with.
>>739258317 We have been ranking classes by power levels for a long time. Paladins are bottom tier in the PHB and are objectively weaker than fighters. The only class as weak as the paladin is the monk. If you disagree you are wrong.
However, all classes are fun and a good DM compensates.
>>739258339 It is a willing act, but he was stupid enough to believe it the lesser of two evils, and the only way to save her. This brings up the debate of is an act evil inherantly, or evil because of Intention. If its based off intention then he was harmless.
>>739258534 "Lesser of two evils" is irrelevant. A paladin cannot commit any evil act, period. There is no balancing of evils to make an excuse. It really is that simple. If you want more flexibility, play a Knight, which is in the splat books.
Evil acts are evil, period. D&D is not consequentialist.
>>739258767 Life is hard for a paladin. Trying to attack them would have been the only correct choice. Alternatively, run away and look for help. Paladins are not intended to avoid all bad things happening -- failing to stop an evil act is not an evil act. Do you even moral theory?
>>739258945 At no point is interpretation relevant. I can tell you've never played D&D. Rape is evil. "Willingly commit an evil act" does not require that the actor believe the act to be evil. End of story.
>>739259090 The only insufferable cunt is the "HA HA MY PALADIN COMMITS A RAPE BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD ACT" loser who would be immediately banned from the game for arguing about the ruling so that reasonable people can play in peace.
>>739259266 Would have been a FANTASTIC switch over moment for his paladin to become a fallen paladin and become lawful neutral. The act itself isn't completely irrational. It's just not Good and paladins would lose their powers for doing it.
I think all of you take a table top rpg too seriously. Most groups bend the rules a little bit so some can have more fun experience, while others go by the book entirely. Both settings are for different people. I run a few groups and one side is the one where we do dumb shit and fuck around, and the other is where we keep our serious campaigns. I would have allowed the raping to occur in the fuck around one, but if it occurred in my serious campaign he'd fall from Grace as a paladin, no question to it. I wouldn't kick him out, I'd show him that his actions have consequences, and I'd probably make the raped girl kill herself afterwards to make his action even worse.
A good DM can roll with that, a bad one resorts to kicking players out.
>>739260418 This is what I would have done as well. You fall from grace, maybe atone later, but this whole "argue for 20 minutes" bullshit he admitted to earlier IS sufficient grounds for being booted. I hope you wouldn't have put up with it.
>>739260484 While I agree here some groups play by strict rules. Those are the groups where nothing fun ever happens. Like you know the stories where someone suplexes a dragon, or rolls to fuck an orc. His games aren't those games.
>>739260719 There are objectively superior systems for people who want to play a game like that. I am a rules nerd for D&D because that's part of the point. You can't just violate the fucking rules for the paladin code of conduct.
We have played some batshit insane games of All Flesh Must Be Eaten though. Those rules are *explicitly* super loose.
>>739260856 I'm not saying its bad to play by rules. I just know to keep two separate campaigns for that express purpose. I know people want to play a tabletop to have a giggle and then the same people sometimes want to get together for a serious quest. My group meets every week and we swap between depending on how we feel. I've played paladin and I understand there is a strict ideology to follow. I would understand being pissed at someone for picking that class then acting like that in a serious campaign.
I'm not saying your games are bad for being serious, I'm just saying the crazy d&d stories that a lot of people see don't come from serious games. They come from ones where rules are bent a bit.
First off I would have had him fall from grace too and have to atone to get his paladin abilities back as well. I might have even had his evil act in a temple of evil summon a minor avatar or demon of said evil god because hell a Paladin just commit an evil act in that gods name effectively. That said it really depends on the type of game they're running. In some D&D game paladins might have home brew rules that make there code far less absolute, think game of thrones.
>>739261385 We handled that by switching to All Flesh Must Be Eaten. Get stoned with the whole group and play zombie tabletop games where crazy shit happens and the rules are pretty relaxed by design. D&D just seems way too complex to play any other way.
>>739261630 It just takes a bit of reading through the books to get an understanding of d&d. I always played it so I understood it. I don't know about all flesh must be eaten but I'm probably gonna try it out.
>>739261916 I've been playing D&D since 3e when I was but a little boy. The problem is that the combat system, skills systems, etc are really complex and well-balanced. Fucking with them too much throws the whole game into total disarray. Half of these D&D green text stories that non-players think are exciting just leave me in pain.
>>739262251 I personally judge morality by how a normal person views an action. In that situation, I'd knock the girl out and bring her to a town and have a cleric have a look at her. There are better paths.
>>739262193 juat making the kill herself though makes you sound like a spiteful DM who won't accept people thinking outside of the box. While of course rape is probably an evil act, if you don't think the paladin could rape her to save her life which sounds like a good act to me, he could just ask another party member to de flower her and this by the logic in this thread his hands would be clean and virtuous.
>>739262545 Also wrong. Paladins cannot intentionally cause a party member or a bystander to commit an evil act as well. Your deity is not an idiot. You will fall from grace for that shit. Read the rules.
>>739262545 That's not what happened though. The paladin himself took it upon himself to rape a girl. Think about the psychological effect that's gonna have. Imagine wanting to do one thing your entire life. And it's minutes away. Out of nowhere a priest just takes it away by force and you have no power to stop him. You only wanted this one thing your whole life, and it's gone because someone took it from you.
It's not spite, it's setting it up proper for the game to proceed as intended. Had he been in one of those joke games where rules aren't a thing sure it'd be alright, I'd let it slide, but if it's a serious game he's having consequences for resorting to raping this girl.
>>739262815 Like I said earlier I would have the girl off herself. That way the life wasn't saved, the paladin did more harm than good. The DM was probably just not able to stand his own grounds in terms of rules and whatnot.
>>739262751 Kantian ethics refers to a deontological ethical theory ascribed to the German philosopher Immanuel Kant. The theory, developed as a result of Enlightenment rationalism, is based on the view that the only intrinsically good thing is a good will; an action can only be good if its maxim – the principle behind it – is duty to the moral law.
>>739263158 Yeah, if the DM were smart he could have planned for that. The raping of the virgin could have triggered some dark deity to come fight them and caused the paladins fall from Grace, the whole party then has to fight with a useless paladin who can't keep his dick in his pants to save someone else's life.
>>739263175 Thinks he's saving life, believes it to be his duty as paladin to save life, doesn't rape her to rape her, rapes her to break hymen. 6 is so stupid he wouldn't contemplate any other complications of it therefore making his motive good and it his duty to carry out a good act.
>>739262063 Exactly. I get being creative to solve a problem, but exploits, loopholes, and inane bullshit are exactly that.
I don't mind when people make the greentexts like the one when the dude is a bear that bluffs his way through, but then I think of all the bullshit like natural attacks, an insanely high carrying capacity, and the size modifiers. I have yet to find a place where the level modifier for a bear is laid out.
>>739264598 You can extrapolate from the monster manual listing. There's even a bit in the MM (or DMG, I forget) oh how to adapt any monster to be a player character (level adjustment, hit dice). D&D's rules autism actually makes it EXTREMELY flexible.
>>739263390 Fam you're confused. The morality in 3.5 and 3 at least explicitly states itself as ignorant of the consequences. Doesnt matter at all what the intent, actual outcome, or reasoning is, just what the actual deed is. Various suppliments outline which deeds are good and which evil. If a deed is grey, then a paladin can usually get away with it. Rape is certainly evil in dnd.
>>739264769 Ya I've looked. Extrapolating is one thing, but when you have to balance extremes, that's when things go poorly. I.E bears have like int 5 and str 22. Their hit die only go so far. If you go purely by the rules then the adjustment is wayyyyyyyyyy off (like +4 lvl)
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