> be me > lawful good paladin > find out about evil

You saved that young maiden's life anon

Keep doing your god's work

>>739254452
Thank you kind sir

>>739254395
> lawful good paladin
> I rape the shit out of her

Huh.

>>739254680
They can't sacrifice her if she isn't a virgin.

>>739254680
His other options were to kill her or let her get sacrificed to a death god

Rape saves lives

>>739254747
My thoughts exactly! I argued with the DM for like 20 minutes about it.

>>739254747
Or fight the cult.

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>>739254747
>Rape saves lives

Won't even try to argue that.

>>739254849
I don't want to kill anyone if I don't absolutely have to.

>>739255001
Use your bare fists and knock them out.

>>739255076
They have fucking magic!

>>739255167
Sounds to me like you are making excuses to break your alignment faggot.

Could have abducted the girl

>>739255213
I considered that but I didn't think I could make it.

>>739255322
Should have rolled for divine intervention and had your god save you

>>739255554
Well I have an int score of 6.

>>739255661
Holy shit no wonder you couldn't persuade her. You could barely form a fucking sentence. Doesn't matter if your charisma is 25 if you are just grunting and pointing.How do you even use a weapon?

>>739256150
Slowly...

>>739256237
That is ridiculously low for a paladin. I thought 8 or 9 was the base requirement. That is fucking hilarious

>>739256392
Yeah lol It's why he is named Robert Downey jr.

>>739256535
How big is the party you play with?I miss playing D&D with 6 or so people. I just don't care enough for it anymore. If you don't have premade characters turning up to a campaign, you spend all fucking night making characters.

>>739256688
5 in the party total. Yeah everyone makes there shit before they show up.

>>739256916
I love all that shit, its just so time consuming. I feel guilty afterwards, like I wasted an evening.

Its the same with Warhammer and anything else along those lines. The games are hella fun, but massively time consuming and make me feel guilty

Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have a consequentialist moral system you faggot. You broke alignment regardless of what the outcome was. Your DM is a little bitch if he gave in and you're a faggot rules lawyer who would never play in my game again.

>>739257011
I get that. I really only like DnD but I try to only play with people that know how to play. 5e is pretty quick paced compared to 4 though.

>>739257074
Well I wouldn't play in your game because you sound like a faggot. Like the type of DM who has to kill everyone's characters because he can't cum without fulfilling his faggoty power fantasy.

>>739254395
did you have to rape her with such a high charisma though?

>>739257254
You literally don't understand how the game mechanics of your chosen class work. The paladin is the most restrictive class in the game, it's not an excuse for edgy faggots like you to be argumentative and try to find moral loopholes. Rape is evil, period. I wouldn't kill your character but you'd fall from paladin grace fast as fuck.

>>739257348
To be fair one could make the argument that with his low intelligence score he misunderstood the ways of the faith and made a lapse in judgement as to what was good.

>>739257348
Pretty sure it is less evil than murder.

>>739257320
I think she was charmed or maybe crazy or something idk but I couldn't convince her of shit.

>>739257467
No. You could not make that argument.

>>739257477
Pretty sure you don't understand how morality works at all. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law much less the fucking Dungeons and Dragons paladin's moral code.

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>be me
>Anti social elf ranger in a party of social butterfly's who won't shut up
>we also have a half elf bars
>campaign is going very good, meet up with a zombie anti paladin with an ice sword
>in typical bard fashion
>"I roll to seduce the antipaladin zombie"
>dm allows it, even though both of us being experienced d&d plyers know you can't seduce undead
>he crits
>my ranger is the only one in the party that failed the role
>mfw my ranger has a slow but growing attraction to the bard

The rest of the party already planned the wedding

>>739257553
Why could you not make that argument? His low intelligence he didn't understand the well defined parameters of good and evil and thought that this was the least evil course of action. It fits perfectly.

>>739257553
I'm sorry I didn't realize you were the arbiter of reality. I apologize.

>>739257580
Hahahaha!

>>739257553
Yeah, you're a grade A cunt
You're not wrong. Just a raging no fun cunt. So I guess enjoy being right and lording over a dnd table.

>you might not even be right but arguing with cunts like you is too tedious.

>>739257603
From the SRD:

Code of Conduct

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.


D&D and other fantasy worlds do not use subjective, consequentialist morality. This is an absolute fact. There are actual deities and actual specific alignments assigned to specific acts. There is some wiggle room but not enough for this faggot's story. Also I'm pretty sure that never happened and he's just telling a made up story for attention because he doesn't have enough friends to play D&D.

>>739257618
I've played D&D for almost my entire life and I've never met anyone retarded enough to accept this argument. It's not about being the arbiter of reality. It's about this loser's fake story being completely full of shit just like his reasoning. "6 Int means I can get away with rape!"

>>739257580
Man, fuck bards
>no really, fuck them

>>739257856
I wouldn't rage over the table, I'd handle it easily: the paladin falls from grace, the alignment changes to lawful neutral, and we move on. No arguments out of character over bullshit that doesn't matter.

>>739257905
There is more than enough wiggle room in that definition for an act of stupidity thinking it is good.

>>739257959
...

>>739257996
A paladin cannot even tell a lie to save a life. Literal Kant-level moral requirements. If you don't like it, play a different class. Paladins are weak anyway. This is just grand standing and trying to impress others with an annoying faggot argument.

>>739257905
I see nothing about rape in your rules.

>>739258121
Pretty sure if the paladin was stupid enough they could give misinformation unintentionally though.

>>739258121
>don't want to start another argument but,

No class in D&D is really weak. They all have their specific strengths and weaknesses, and it also is based on how the player plays the character.

>>739258162
>I see nothing about rape in your rules.

You're a retard.

>>739258234
Yes, willingness is a core part. Mind control, mistaken info, etc are all valid excuses, but "it was for the greater good that I raped her so she wouldn't get sacrificed" doesn't count as it is a completely willing act.

>>739257978
>tedious cunt can't even English
Lord over a table
>I wouldn't rage.
>I played dnd all my life (and spend the rest on the chans)
Fuck right back off you fa/tg/uy. We are just shit talking here and you're cunting it all up. Just start all your future posts with "well, actually..." so we know what sort of shit stain we are dealing with.

>>739258317
We have been ranking classes by power levels for a long time. Paladins are bottom tier in the PHB and are objectively weaker than fighters. The only class as weak as the paladin is the monk. If you disagree you are wrong.

However, all classes are fun and a good DM compensates.

>>739258343
Telling bullshit stories to impress Internet strangers is a horribly pathetic act worthy of mockery and derision.

>>739258339
It is a willing act, but he was stupid enough to believe it the lesser of two evils, and the only way to save her. This brings up the debate of is an act evil inherantly, or evil because of Intention. If its based off intention then he was harmless.

>>739258339
That doesn't disprove my argument.

>>739258419
>obvious bait taken
>fish on

>>739258534
"Lesser of two evils" is irrelevant. A paladin cannot commit any evil act, period. There is no balancing of evils to make an excuse. It really is that simple. If you want more flexibility, play a Knight, which is in the splat books.

Evil acts are evil, period. D&D is not consequentialist.

>>739258518
Continue to police the Internet good sir. Defend your fine game. Surely you will be triumphant.

>>739254395
"The only way to protect the magic is to defile the magic. Thus is the way of LGM."

>>739258657
I was triumphant when I arrived. At least I can keep the same stable group of friends to play with without rules lawyer crybaby tryhard nonsense ruining the game.

>>739258644
If he was stupid enough to not see an alternative, and thought that her being sacrificed to the evil god was the evil path, then its not evil.Intensely misguided though

>>739258419
Yes, but D&D is all about player action and choice.

If you roleplay, make great rolls, and have good weapons and armor the power rating doesn't mean shit.

>>739258644
You haven't proven that rape is evil.

>>739258767
Life is hard for a paladin. Trying to attack them would have been the only correct choice. Alternatively, run away and look for help. Paladins are not intended to avoid all bad things happening -- failing to stop an evil act is not an evil act. Do you even moral theory?

>>739258811
My dub dubs cannot be challenged you nigger.

>>739258872
Do you even low intelligence misinterpreting things.

>>739258872
I have a theoretical degree in that.

>>739258764
Congrats. But you still sound like a raging insufferable cunt. I'm glad you have people who put up with it. Do try to stay in your lane and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.

>>739258945
At no point is interpretation relevant. I can tell you've never played D&D. Rape is evil. "Willingly commit an evil act" does not require that the actor believe the act to be evil. End of story.

>>739259090
The only insufferable cunt is the "HA HA MY PALADIN COMMITS A RAPE BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD ACT" loser who would be immediately banned from the game for arguing about the ruling so that reasonable people can play in peace.

>>739259114
Can you prove it?

>>739259114
Jumping in here.


He probably shouldn't have picked a paladin, because he is lawful good. What he did wasn't necessarily evil, because she has to be a virgin to sacrificed (the rape made her not a virgin)

That would be a lawful evil charactwr

>>739257905
>"6 Int means I can get away with rape!"
Europeans think this is fine, shown via their refugee friends.

>>739259206
Lol at your anger son. #sad

>>739259266
Would have been a FANTASTIC switch over moment for his paladin to become a fallen paladin and become lawful neutral. The act itself isn't completely irrational. It's just not Good and paladins would lose their powers for doing it.

>>739254843
>>>739254747
>My thoughts exactly! I argued with the DM for like 20 minutes about it.

Just in case anyone needs proof that OP is actually an insufferable cunt himself, he admitted it. Arguing with the DM for 20 minutes is immediate permanent ban from the table.

>>739259363
Yeah fair enough. I would be fine with this honestly. I was mad because it felt like he was trying to keep me from doing it.

>>739259461
Not if I'm right twat basket.

>>739259206
Or the guy who types "I was triumphant when I arrived". That weapons grade douche canoe.

Notice, I never said you were wrong. You just suck. Your delivery is pure cunt. Seriously, screen cap this thread and go be a fa/tg/uy. Just go and stay go.

>>739259526
The DM shouldn't have stopped you from doing it. He should have laid down the law of consequences. Both of you are retards.

>>739259569
But you're not right. You're wrong. DM's word is law anyway and if you don't like it pack your shit up and leave. People like you ruin D&D groups.

>>739259614
Yeah, I'm being a dickhead. I've dealt with people like OP one too many times in my actual experience as a DM to bother being nice. Fuck this loser and fuck everyone like him.

>>739259732
I saved her life. *mic drop*

>>739259846
Yes, you did. You saved her life by committing an evil act. Congrats on saving her life. You still lose your powers, end of story.

>>739259846
>*mic drop*

Seriously? I tried to see the reason behind your actions but I think the other guy is right.

You are an insufferable douche and should be kicked out of your party

>>739259895
Yeah but I didn't though ;)

>>739260087
Then your DM is even more of a cuck faggot than you are. I'm glad you're happy with one another.

>>739260087
Arguing like an autistic retard until people give up because they want to keep playing the game is not the same as being right. Maybe when you learn that, people will respect you.

I think all of you take a table top rpg too seriously. Most groups bend the rules a little bit so some can have more fun experience, while others go by the book entirely. Both settings are for different people. I run a few groups and one side is the one where we do dumb shit and fuck around, and the other is where we keep our serious campaigns. I would have allowed the raping to occur in the fuck around one, but if it occurred in my serious campaign he'd fall from Grace as a paladin, no question to it. I wouldn't kick him out, I'd show him that his actions have consequences, and I'd probably make the raped girl kill herself afterwards to make his action even worse.

A good DM can roll with that, a bad one resorts to kicking players out.

>>739259975
Well fuck you cunt! I'm so serious! I'm obviously not just fucking with this faggot! I could never do that.

In all seriousness though it was a retarded move. However I was playing a retard and it made me laugh. I got annoyed when I got walled off.

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>>739257905
Does he not know it's just a game? You play to have fun, not argue over rules you fucking autist

>>739260418
This is what I would have done as well. You fall from grace, maybe atone later, but this whole "argue for 20 minutes" bullshit he admitted to earlier IS sufficient grounds for being booted. I hope you wouldn't have put up with it.

>>739260418
This guy gets it.

>>739260484
You've never played a tabletop game before. If you want to play casual stuff, there is plenty more to play. Paladins are not morally flexible. Period.

>>739260484
While I agree here some groups play by strict rules. Those are the groups where nothing fun ever happens. Like you know the stories where someone suplexes a dragon, or rolls to fuck an orc. His games aren't those games.

>>739260719
There are objectively superior systems for people who want to play a game like that. I am a rules nerd for D&D because that's part of the point. You can't just violate the fucking rules for the paladin code of conduct.

We have played some batshit insane games of All Flesh Must Be Eaten though. Those rules are *explicitly* super loose.

>>739257905
Which SRD? If he was playing 5e, he has to stick to his oath and possibly some more specific religious rules, but there's no alignment restriction

>>739260856
I'm not saying its bad to play by rules. I just know to keep two separate campaigns for that express purpose. I know people want to play a tabletop to have a giggle and then the same people sometimes want to get together for a serious quest. My group meets every week and we swap between depending on how we feel. I've played paladin and I understand there is a strict ideology to follow. I would understand being pissed at someone for picking that class then acting like that in a serious campaign.

I'm not saying your games are bad for being serious, I'm just saying the crazy d&d stories that a lot of people see don't come from serious games. They come from ones where rules are bent a bit.

>>739261293
That was from 3.5. I know the rules are a bit more lax in 5e but he specifically said he was lawful good, so it should still apply (rape is a no-no).

First off I would have had him fall from grace too and have to atone to get his paladin abilities back as well. I might have even had his evil act in a temple of evil summon a minor avatar or demon of said evil god because hell a Paladin just commit an evil act in that gods name effectively. That said it really depends on the type of game they're running. In some D&D game paladins might have home brew rules that make there code far less absolute, think game of thrones.

>>739254395
This game is gay and so are you.

>>739261385
We handled that by switching to All Flesh Must Be Eaten. Get stoned with the whole group and play zombie tabletop games where crazy shit happens and the rules are pretty relaxed by design. D&D just seems way too complex to play any other way.

>>739258872
Inaction is an action thus being evil fuck off cunt and go back to the trolley question

>>739261773
>consequentialism
>Dungeons and Dragons

Pick exactly one

>>739261630
It just takes a bit of reading through the books to get an understanding of d&d. I always played it so I understood it. I don't know about all flesh must be eaten but I'm probably gonna try it out.

>>739261916
I've been playing D&D since 3e when I was but a little boy. The problem is that the combat system, skills systems, etc are really complex and well-balanced. Fucking with them too much throws the whole game into total disarray. Half of these D&D green text stories that non-players think are exciting just leave me in pain.

>>739261883
I would have fixed this by having the girl commit suicide after having been raped ruining the one thing she wanted which was to be sacrificed.

DM couldn't punish the paladin cause the DM didn't look at it like this. Judging solely from consequence, the paladin still caused her to kill herself. Paladin commits evil action

>>739261883
How do you determine the morality of something then?

>>739262251
Actions have innate morality. You can use Kant if you want, categorical imperative and what not, but in fantasy worlds with actual gods it's even easier.

>>739262251
I personally judge morality by how a normal person views an action. In that situation, I'd knock the girl out and bring her to a town and have a cleric have a look at her. There are better paths.

>>739262193
juat making the kill herself though makes you sound like a spiteful DM who won't accept people thinking outside of the box. While of course rape is probably an evil act, if you don't think the paladin could rape her to save her life which sounds like a good act to me, he could just ask another party member to de flower her and this by the logic in this thread his hands would be clean and virtuous.

>>739262545
Also wrong. Paladins cannot intentionally cause a party member or a bystander to commit an evil act as well. Your deity is not an idiot. You will fall from grace for that shit. Read the rules.

>>739262380
His motives were benevolent therefore his actions were good if you look at it from Kant view...

>>739262683
This is literally the opposite of Kantian morality. Jesus Christ. You're so wrong it hurts.

>>739262626
>save a life
>fall from grace for it
??????

>>739262545
That's not what happened though. The paladin himself took it upon himself to rape a girl. Think about the psychological effect that's gonna have. Imagine wanting to do one thing your entire life. And it's minutes away. Out of nowhere a priest just takes it away by force and you have no power to stop him. You only wanted this one thing your whole life, and it's gone because someone took it from you.

It's not spite, it's setting it up proper for the game to proceed as intended. Had he been in one of those joke games where rules aren't a thing sure it'd be alright, I'd let it slide, but if it's a serious game he's having consequences for resorting to raping this girl.

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Mfw this thread

>>739262815
Like I said earlier I would have the girl off herself. That way the life wasn't saved, the paladin did more harm than good. The DM was probably just not able to stand his own grounds in terms of rules and whatnot.

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>>739262815
>people are still making this argument

>>739257132
>not playing 3.5

Any half decent paladin or even mostly good player would have just knocked her out and taken her to the nearest good temple to be rehabilitated. Rape her to save her is just another flavor of evil.

>>739262751
Kantian ethics refers to a deontological ethical theory ascribed to the German philosopher Immanuel Kant. The theory, developed as a result of Enlightenment rationalism, is based on the view that the only intrinsically good thing is a good will; an action can only be good if its maxim – the principle behind it – is duty to the moral law.

>>739257553
Ya you could make the arguement that he didn't know if it was evil, but it still was. I support this fag right here.

>>739263175
OK nice Google retard now look up what the categorical imperative is. You read one paragraph and interpreted it completely wrong.

You can't rape because it would be bad if people always raped. You can't kill because it would be bad if people always killed.

>>739263158
Yeah, if the DM were smart he could have planned for that. The raping of the virgin could have triggered some dark deity to come fight them and caused the paladins fall from Grace, the whole party then has to fight with a useless paladin who can't keep his dick in his pants to save someone else's life.

>>739263175
Thinks he's saving life, believes it to be his duty as paladin to save life, doesn't rape her to rape her, rapes her to break hymen. 6 is so stupid he wouldn't contemplate any other complications of it therefore making his motive good and it his duty to carry out a good act.

>>739263390
YOU
ARE
WRONG
KILL YOURSELF

>>739257580
Just a friendly reminder that Link is a bard, not a fighter

>>739262063
Exactly. I get being creative to solve a problem, but exploits, loopholes, and inane bullshit are exactly that.

I don't mind when people make the greentexts like the one when the dude is a bear that bluffs his way through, but then I think of all the bullshit like natural attacks, an insanely high carrying capacity, and the size modifiers. I have yet to find a place where the level modifier for a bear is laid out.

>>739264598
You can extrapolate from the monster manual listing. There's even a bit in the MM (or DMG, I forget) oh how to adapt any monster to be a player character (level adjustment, hit dice). D&D's rules autism actually makes it EXTREMELY flexible.

>>739263390
Fam you're confused. The morality in 3.5 and 3 at least explicitly states itself as ignorant of the consequences. Doesnt matter at all what the intent, actual outcome, or reasoning is, just what the actual deed is. Various suppliments outline which deeds are good and which evil. If a deed is grey, then a paladin can usually get away with it. Rape is certainly evil in dnd.

>>739264769
Ya I've looked. Extrapolating is one thing, but when you have to balance extremes, that's when things go poorly. I.E bears have like int 5 and str 22. Their hit die only go so far. If you go purely by the rules then the adjustment is wayyyyyyyyyy off (like +4 lvl)