__Real Talk__ Have been a fundamentalist Christian for 35 years -- since I was 7 years old. Over the last 2 weeks of serious study, I've finally concluded that it's all a farce. So for the first time in my life, I'm religion free.
__Question__ What now /b/? My entire life has been framed by a deep and steadfast Christian faith. (I have a degree in New Testament Theology and I read Greek). But now all of that is meaningless... So what's the point of anything? What's the point of life? Is it only to seek pleasure and avoid pain? Is that all there is?
Posting free tits to celebrate being religion free.
>>739045221 Enough of these existential questions. Step one about life: Invent yourself. These sort of ponderables will get you no where.
I posted this a while back, and I think it will pertain to you well enough.
"If people looked at the stars each night, I'd bet that they'd live considerably more different -- once you look into infinity, you get a good sense of how small things really are." Our sun. Our home planet, Earth. You. People often look at these elements of the universe, and somehow it makes them feel insignificant. I wish people would consider this life thing to be more valuable. More valuable than the time which limits its experience. We know so little of the universe, but one thing is certain - it is undeniably beautiful. Isn't the ability to just experience this more profound than the black hole at the center of our own galaxy? More profound than the largest galaxy in the universe? More profound than the cosmos itself? We are all beautiful arrangements of dust and gas, occupying space and time, making choices, falling in love, reading, writing, thinking, stealing, murdering, betraying. With beauty, something must be ugly. For without ugliness, the beautiful parts of life would become dull. Unenthralling. And that, in itself, is beautiful in its own way. A strange, but beautiful way. I would never try to do something ugly to this planet or anyone trying to experience life, but ugliness is necessary to make something beautiful, beautiful. We may need to remember that from time to time. To encourage us to not dwell on the little things. To truly admire ourselves, our insignificance, and our significance.
Take this with a grain of salt. Of inspiration. There is so much to experience in this one life and for the first time you can truly see it for what it really is. Go an experience as much as you possibly can before time runs out. For which is short, so make it count.
>>739045401 Anything deeper than that? What's your basis for life? What motivates you? Do you ever have (or have you ever had) the feeling that someone is looking over your shoulder all the time and judging you? ...making a list and checking it twice so to speak?
>>739045221 Go tell other devout religious people of how you've seen the light at been inlightened. ALso, yes life is to avoid pain and achieve pleasure, congratulations of freeing yourself from the slavementality that permeates christianity (and any other religion for that matter)
>>739045530 The lies can always become truth if the majority believes them enough. Which is how the current status quo is. You must rely upon developing syllogism to guide us out of our delusions of afterlife and God. Be mad. Be upset. Not one smart person can thwart the path of a stampede of driven morons..
And for what it's worth... I've studied Christianity for 20+ years. I've known about most of its weaknesses and shortcomings for 2 decades. The 2 weeks of study was more about logically re-processing a few key doctrines and arguments than actual book work.
Life is fleeting, you only get one shot. There is only one immortality now. What you do, what you say, how you treat yourself and other people.... that will be your legacy. You don't have to be famous, or create some piece of cool technology, or make history. Leave the world just a little better, so that someone remembers you when your gone and is thankful that you were here.
My view on life as a non-theist is fairly basic. When you look at evolution and species as a whole, the entire point of the -species- is simply to exist, and ideally continue to exist. Some people view this as a need to procreate and have kids, but that's just a means to an end.
Thus I see that as long as I merely exist in the world, I'm fulfilling my purpose. To add to this, if I'm somehow enriching or aiding the lives of those around me, I'm adding to the deal. It's nothing complicated, it's just a matter of not being a dick, helping people when you can, and generally being someone that people like having around so you feel like you're at least some kind of positive benefit to the race.
When I die I'll rot into the ground and the energy my body used will dissipate into the world around me so I'll still sort of exist in everything afterwards anyway. And up until then, I'm helping my species exist.
My recommendation? Watch the original Cosmos series (the Carl Sagan one) and just get a feel for how awesome and big the universe is. Once you find inner peace that you really are doing okay just by merely existing, life becomes rather chill.
Why does any thing have to change? Does your morality have to flipflop?
Go about your business, mingle with the same friends, do the same things just don't church or pray. No brainer. If you are looking for support to go ape shit in your life, meh, not from me. Play and stuff up but if regrets or conscious kickis in can only be on your plate, only you to blame, if.
>>739045221 >What now /b/? Step 1: Secure good quality of living for yourself Step 2: Secure good quality of living for your lineage Step 3: Live the rest of your life and help others because it is the good thing to do as it helps the human race
And don't be a fedora about religion because a lot of the stuff in there can still be good to live by
>>739045953 Nice thoughts. But despite being a Christian, I secretly never reallllly cared about helping other people. I mostly did stuff for charities because I was supposed to... not because I genuinely wanted to.
>>739045939 Nonsense thread. Studying is only logic. Opening your mind and heart is soul connecting, be it to anything. If your such a specialist, describe to me the ingredients in Christ's Holy Annointing Oil. Then tell me you've lived a life of partaking in miracles and visions, and I'll listen to your findings. Also, didn't post your "magical revelation" to enlighten the world with.
>>739046139 For me, it was like burning yourself on the stove accidentally, despite your parents tellinf you to keep your distance because you would burn yourself. From trusting their word, to understanding their word. You can never truly understand something without experiencing it first. Unless you are an individual of great empathy.
>>739046236 Waitttt. I don't hate Christians. I know a TON of Christians and they are really good people. They are the meek, quiet people who pay their taxes, raise their kids, raise money and build houses for tornado victims..... the vasttt majority of them are good people.
So don't confuse my new-found lack of faith for disdain for the people.
>>739045221 Now you'll realize you alone are responsible for all parts of your life. Being religious is essentially working around problems by pointing to a higher authority, and while I can understand people's life can be so horrible that they just have to believe in something it's still only psychological cheating.
The basic values of christianity are good: treat others well, help them, meet people (it doesn't have to be in a church)... that works quite well without any god. Except it's not ONE imaginarity that looks over your shoulder, but instead other people are looking over your shoulder (i.e. remember what you did for them).
> What now Just live on. People are mistaken again and again. You think you wasted time and energy? You're not the first and by far not the last. Maybe you want to compare your knowledge with other religions - you can still use what you know.
> I read Greek Understanding other languages is never pointless.
>>739047296 Because I've also studied for a lifetime, and was born Druidic and became Wiccan for 16 years before permitting Christ's Power and ultimate Authority. Used cannabis for 15 years, and finally connected with Angelic Realm and Higher Heights that Are. I need no church nor text, but have studied the teachings of Christ for so long that the bigger images emerged and I've assimilated them into truth and faith via my open-minded life experiences.
>>739047808 Also, I believe we manifest what we empower and connect to, thus, if you believe in nothing, you die into nothingness. Hindus, their gods, reincarnation etc etc. We manifest, and are born with Free Will. Everything is a choice made by each of us alone, via each person's Free Will.
 The problem of suffering  The obvious errancy of the Bible (check Bart Ehrman on YT)  Jack Van Impe and all the pre-trib rapturists are bat shit crazy -- To expand on this... Jack can literally quote 60-70% of the Bible. He knows it backwards and forwards. But he is so profoundly wrong about "End Times" stuff. It's literally laughable how many times his story has changed over the decades and how many times he's been wrong. How can that be? The Holy Spirit is supposed to help us properly understand and share the scriptures!!!. Van Impe is as phony as a snake oil salesman. SO... if this man who can quote the whole damn Bible... and knows it inside out... is allowed by the Holy Spirit to mislead MILLIONS of fellow Christians every single week... where is the TRUTH in that? <--- that's a very condensed version of my argument/problem.  Obvious unanswered prayers -- even when by the formulas promised by Jesus himself -- the prayers *should* be answered.
>>739047994 Thus, by all means, choose thy fates with wisdom and deep experiences. Logic is only a limited theory of what little we know, a hypothesis at best. So if you believe you are a god of your own making, then by all means be a satanist. You will attract what you do or do not believe into your very existence, and afterlife also. You Will it to be so.
>>739047652 Sure. But I doubt she will be able to handle life without Christ.
All her music. TV shows. Friends. Family. Parents. Nieces & Nephews. College. High School. Charities. Study groups. Even her job........ everything in her life is centered in some way around Christianity.
It's a big black chasm when belief is all you've every known.
Sorry OP, but I believe you're wrong. There are thousands upon thousands of documented cases of reincarnation and near death experiences which, while some can be explained by the brain dying, can't all be explained this way. Every reincarnated child speaks of a man of light who gave them the choice to return to life or continue on. There IS a God, and while he may not be a big guy with a beard, there is a singular energy that is responsible for the existence of everything. Without will there is no creation. The laws of our existence didn't just write themselves.
I suggest you look at the science; study some Quantum physics - the universal force behind the universe - and the reincarnation studies I mentioned. Christianity once spoke of it too, except it was changed early on in the Bible to be one life and one life only.
I get you're disillusioned with Christianity considering it's such a watered down, dogmatic version of the truth. But use it as a jumping off point to discover the real truth. The purpose of life is to experience be it good or bad. Don't blame God for your bad experiences; we all play the game with the same rule set, even though some of us have a better start than others.
>>739046500 >I mostly did stuff for charities because I was supposed to... not because I genuinely wanted to Then you're pretty much an asshole. There are countless ways to help others, maybe you still find one of them that enjoys you instead of being a nuisance.
>>739048320 Honestly dude, all the academic understand of scriptural minutiae is useless if you don't seek and experience the Holy Spirit. It's like your whole life you're like "oh I love water I literally swim in a pool all day" but merely being IN water isn't the same as swallowing it. Heck, you can drown in water and never actually get a taste.
>>739048779 Please reexamine my OP. I did not say that I do not believe in God. TBH, I don't know where I am with that right now. Agnostic -- somewhere between Deism and atheism, but closer to Deism.
I am deeply familiar with the work of Hugh Ross and other astrophysicists who've essentially proven that there had to be a finger of some kind that pushed the first domino (and authored the Laws of nature you mentioned). ...not to say I understand all of it. But I understand enough to know that there probably IS some kind of intelligence out there.
But I'm now thoroughly unconvinced that that intelligence is God as described in the Bible. I do not believe that he listens and answers prayers. I do not believe that he cares if we masturbate. I do not believe that he has a list that he's writing down all of our bad deeds. I do not believe he sends every unbelieving sould to eternal damnation in Hell.
I am NOT saying that the Bible is worthless. Or denying the value in Jesus' teachings. Only that God and Jesus are not what they claim to be in Christianity.
Beyond that, I have a lot of lingering questions.
BTW... Christianity never had anything to do with reincarnation as you describe. Many spurious sources have tried to interject that into the faith. But it was never there originally.... by originally I'm talking 1st century.
Well, OP. First of all don't listen to most of the idiots on here. Just this one. Only me.
You're in a unique spot in life where you can have a proper mid-life crisis. That's some good shit right there, it's not that you haven't accomplished shit before you were 50, it's because you now realize nothing you accomplish will matter ever. EVER. You get to freely roam about (assuming you're in good enough health to do that) and experience life which is pretty fucking great. You can find a girl on tinder then put your penis in AND out of them. You can finally experience LIFE you can trip balls on LSD without feeling guilty, you can eat the mushrooms and snort the coke, you can do so much. Me? I'll be dead before I'm probably 40, you've lived longer than I probably will and have experienced probably less shit. Ever sky-dived naked? I did that on my 22nd birthday. Ever actually hit a hooker? That shit's fucking FIRE. And I mean REALLY hit them, none of that half mast open handed slap shit. And then you drop a roll of cash with a little extra in it next to them and leave. You ever blow 300k in 1 month and go off the grid and train hopped/hitchhiked around the US. while your investments make money back throughout the rest of the year? Literally the richest homeless person ever, I slept and ate, and shit with the dirtiest of them. You ever drive your car into oncoming traffic and get away with it? You ever snort coke off of a hookers tits and asshole? (They manage to make you share) Dude you're scratching the surface of your life finally. I'm not even an atheist either.
>You finally get to live dude, that's what.
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as a fact.
Have you ever written a $50,000 personal check to pay for clean water wells and schools in some god forsaken African country -- trusting that your money would go to actually help people -- but knowing it would probably get squandered/stolen by banana republic gov't officials instead?
You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not talking about a few pennies in the Salvation Army bucket.
>>739045221 Be patient, you will slowly discover who you are as you're shedding more and more dogma. Congratulations on your newfound mental freedom - that can't have been an easy thing to break with. Applause.
>>739050087 Careful with those edges, man. You might hurt yourself. You'd be in a bit of a mental conundrum if you suddenly realized everything you know is wrong. Black is white up is down and short is long.
>>739045221 No amount of study is a waste of time. Over 30 years of religious practicing and you have come to the conclusion that you don't believe. You still have all of that knowledge, all of the understanding of the religion. Just find away of channeling that intellect into something that isn't an imaginary tale to govern the masses.
>>739049169 You have not been following along. Reread this thread. As I said above...
I have a degree in New Testament Theology and I read Greek.
I've studied Christianity for 20+ years. I've known about most of its weaknesses and shortcomings for 2 decades. The 2 weeks of study was more about logically re-processing a few key doctrines and arguments than actual book work.
My misgivings have been brewing for a long time. But once I sat down and really unpacked the issues all the way... it took almost no time to understand the unavoidable truth.
That was the easy part. Knowing what to do next is the part that's weird.
Since you're not religious at all, I wouldn't expect you to understand.
>>739045221 Life is a means to transfer energy more efficiently. The only real objective is reproduction. That is If you want to cut out all the sentimental pussy shit. It's probably not all that rare either.
I've been watching some of the atheists on YT. WTF? And they think the Jesus people are too rabidly religious? Their anti-theism and overt blasphemes (just to be offensive) are just as grotesque as the Christian televangelists.
>>739049520 Actually.... the Holy Spirit is a huge disappointment for me. I have spent countlesssssssss hours studying, praying, and earnestly pursuing (you know "asking, seeking, knocking") the Holy Spirit.
And you know what? Fucking NOTHING.
He ain't there. And I'm angry about it.
Jesus promised He would send the HS. Did He? You say yes. I say no. Are you more sincere than me? Are your tears and late-night-on-your-face-before-god prayers more better than mine?
Do you have a better singing voice? Does he like your Sunday suit better than mine? Or maybe your tie? Or ????
Where the hell is this Holy Spirit who is supposed to answer our prayers? And reveal the scriptures to us correctly?
Why doesn't he help us to understand His supposedly infallible scriptures? Why didn't he tell Whisenant that He wasn't returning/Rapturing us out of here in 1988?
>>739045221 Don't delve too deep into the meaning of life, for you will find there isn't any, it's a pure coincidence we are here and serve no greater purpose or goal. Better to remain ignorant and live your life like an ant in an anthill, going about your business, before finding out it doesn't really serve a purpose anyway.
>He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long enough into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.
>>739045221 Αμα διαβαζεις ελληνιkα διαβασε αυτο , ειναι ηλιθιο γενιkα να πιστευεις σε kατι μπο δε μπορεις να αποδειξεις οτι υπαρχει , ειναι σαν να σου λεω μια ωραια ιστορια για εναν σουπερ ηρωα kαι να την πιστευεις γτ σε εkανε να νιωσεις ασφαλης. Ειναι σkατα k λαθος
>>739045585 The sort of hope and salvation you're looking for is a boondoggle though. If you want hope and salvation in this life, you have to work for it and make it happen for yourself. This means taking responsibility for your life and a decision of what you want to do with it.
>>739045221 The best thing about a faith-free life is the fact that you are accountable to no one. And I don't mean that you can do whatever you want regardless of consequences. I mean that you and no one else can choose what is important in your life, where you want to go, what you want to do, and who you want to be.
The hard part is actually putting it into practice. How the hell do you decide what you want in a single, non-refundable life?
>>739053847 He just found his way out of one religion, why would he join another? At least give him some time to experience himself being accountable to only himself. Usually once people figure out that they are 100% responsible for their own actions, they tend think more about these actions before going through with them. Which most of the time makes them more considerate people.
>>739058036 Well... Sure, why not? I mean, if there is some sort of higher reality which manifests or reveals itself through nature or sth. like that and someone doesn't get it, maybe there is indeed sth. wrong with him, right?
>>739058228 Of course I am responsible for my actions. Who else could be? Sure, there are my genes and my upbringing and my culture etc. etc., but in the end, it's me who's doing stuff and who has to bear responsibility for my actions.
>>739058230 First of all, what is sth an abbreviation of? Second of all, I've seen no actual evidence for any gods existing and I've been looking for it. >>739058343 Well yeah, but my point was that when you don't have to do specific things because of a belief in a god, you get to think through why avoiding certain behaviors can be beneficial. Its not "Do not kill, because god says so" anymore, it becomes "do not kill because you would not like others to kill you", which in my opinion is a better moral basing than "god said so".
To be fair, 2 weeks is enough time to realize that fundamentalist anything is bullshit, without asking anybody anything. Just by sitting around and using basic common sense for 5 minutes is enough.
Now, leaving a faith usually takes longer, and OP did take longer to do that, but usually people who start on the extremes are much quicker to convert once the threads start unraveling. They are starting from a position of more obvious bullshit, and a position that is far more hostile to questioning than typical faiths, so they are already more likely to question as a person, more committed at the start, and more sensitive to things they find to be bullshit.
>>739045221 You don't need any religion to embrace the value within, i mean you can do good around you, be charitable etc.. You don't need religion for that. Being without religion is for me the contrary of avoiding pain because you have to deal with all the thought of dying alone, being here on earth for no reasons. You need to chill i don't know your age but even if religion was in the center of your life (you made a degree on it) it's not a waste of time, it's a lot of knowledge you gather about it and you still have the possibility to change your life and find something else you like.
>>739045221 You're right to give up the notion that god is anthropomorphic and intervenes in our lives. The Universe has been seeking to know itself, and we are the result of its becoming self-conscious. So our job is to observe the Universe and experience its self-consciousness.
You make your own meaning, who cares if there is an "ultimate meaning" or not, you can pretty much do whatever you want, as long as you remember your actioncs have consequences, some affect you and some affect other people.
So you are having a midlife crisis? No big deal, your life should be full, i.e. you should have kids and a family, if you have lived your life as you claim. Focus on them and they should help get you through this rough patch.
>>739059778 we have goverment for that, religion is just mind control and even if it was suddenly abolished people wouldnt just go rape and pillage, well the retarded crazies might go, tho usually religion or goverment dont slow them down even a little bit.
>>739058599 >Second of all, I've seen no actual evidence for any gods existing and I've been looking for it. There are three things to consider. 1. The existence of God, gods, or any such supernatural beings/phenomena depends on them existing, not on others being able to prove it. 2. One believing in God, gods, or supernatural beings/phenomena doesn't mean one can prove his/their existence. 3. Argumenting against a religion is less successful when you don't consider the teachings of that religion.
Take the Psalms: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Or take Paul: "For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made". That doesn't mean that you have to be religious or that you have to become a christian. But is does mean that you not having "evidence" doesn't mean shit, because there IS evidence, but you're just not able to process it correctly.
>>>739058343 (You) >Well yeah, but my point was that when you don't have to do specific things because of a belief in a god, you get to think through why avoiding certain behaviors can be beneficial. >Its not "Do not kill, because god says so" anymore, it becomes "do not kill because you would not like others to kill you", which in my opinion is a better moral basing than "god said so". On the other hand, neither moral philosophers nor philosophers in general have agreed on... anything, basically. You may very well hold to that moral idea, your version of the Golden Rule, whatever. Others don't. The same problem applies to religion and I think it is simply unsolvable: No one will ever come up with a set of morals everyone qua being a rational being will agree on.
>>739060387 The thing is though, that the teachings I like from most religions can be taught without religion and the ones I don't like outweigh the good teachings in a cost benefit analysis. On the subject of morals, we have a social contract called laws that we are supposed to follow if we want to be part of a society that benefits us on many levels. Even if someone disagrees on why we don't want people to kill other people, they will still follow that rule to be part of a society that benefits them.
>>739059971 Government is reactive and extrinsic, though. Religion (and culture, philosophy, weltanschauung etc.) on the other hand forms your conscience, that inner voice which yells "Stop that, you retard!"
>>739045221 >Christian for 35 years >Degree in New Testament Theology
>2 weeks of serious studying
After reading this post I've finally concluded that this thread is all a farce. kek/8 tho, made me reply.
Also, if for some reason this isn't a joke, then you're an idiot and either A) had no faith and just went through the motions, or B) seriously a fucking idiot. 35 years + a degree, and it took 2 weeks to dismantle it all? Actually feel bad for you.
>>739060911 There is a third option anon. Op used 35 years studying his religion, while gathering points of contention from this intense study. Then he used 2 weeks examining those points and decided that his religion was a sham, because these points of contention were too egregious to deny.
>>739045221 Congratulations on doubting religion. The next time you meet a religious person. Ask them to prove the existance of god without refering to their holy book for evidence. Without the bible there is not a single trace of god.
And if you dig into the origin of christianity you'll find it's just a repackage religion of yesteryears. Life just can't be random and cruel and kind there must be someone with a plan. It just hurts too much when life punches you in the gut and you can't think: oh big strong thing I pray too, Please fix this. It's not all just up to me to solve is it? That would make me feel so weak...
>>739045221 Celebrate? You're fucking eternity is gone my dude there is nothing to celebrate all this time. Been a atheist/determinist for many years and it's all really sad shit. Honestly would much rather have a god.
>>739060681 >The thing is though, that the teachings I like from most religions can be taught without religion and the ones I don't like outweigh the good teachings in a cost benefit analysis. It's not that one cannot come up with a set of ethical rules. We in the West have been doing that in a organized manner for what, 2500 yrs?
It's just that "you can be moral without religion" doesn't work because it doesn't work with philosophy, either. There is not one, there are many theories of and on ethics and morals and we're not agreeing on them, anyway.
So one can have one's personal set of rules which one finds exceptionally nice and dandy and out there in the world most people could care less about that, and rightfully so. For billions of people, billions of other people will remain the bad guys. There's no way to change that, not with religion, not with philosophy.
>On the subject of morals, we have a social contract called laws that we are supposed to follow if we want to be part of a society that benefits us on many levels. >Even if someone disagrees on why we don't want people to kill other people, they will still follow that rule to be part of a society that benefits them. I agree on that in the sense that rules being enforcable and and rules being accepted is sth. different from them being objectivly or intersubjectivly true.
>>739060387 I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of evidence and burden of proof. >"For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made". Seeing the things around you is not necessarily proof that they were made by a creator. That's making a jump in logic that you don't justify. That's you failing to understand what evidence is, not atheists failing to process it. They have processed it, and deemed it not evidence.
>1. The existence of God, gods, or any such supernatural beings/phenomena depends on them existing, not on others being able to prove it. Nice platitude but replace God, gods, or any such supernatural beings/phenomena with anything else and it'll still mean the same thing. This phrase doesn't strengthen your position. It only serves to make one question their positions on anything they take for granted.
>2. One believing in God, gods, or supernatural beings/phenomena doesn't mean one can prove his/their existence. What do you think is more rational? Believing in something without evidence/the ability to prove it, or believing something that is backed up by demonstrable evidence?
>>739061827 How people come to their morals is rather inconsequential though anon. If I refrain from doing things I consider bad because I wouldn't want others to do it to me and you refrain from doing the same things because your religion says so, it still results in the same behavior. Which we have decided is moral behavior, based on ideas that have roots in our biology, our culture and yes some of which also comes from religion. I'm just of the opinion that we created religion to nurture specific behaviors because we are a cooperative social species, that has survived on our brains instead of on brawn. Basically these rules started as a blueprint for maintaining a successful tribe, we've just widened who we consider part of our tribe through religious or ideological beliefs.
>>739061109 >Religion forms your conscience? Religion among those other things I mentioned and things I didn't mention takes part in forming one's conscience, yes. Who in the world would deny that, anyway?
>Then how the fuck do you explain the fact that religious people are less moral and more likely to go to jail than non religious people? People with higher agency are less criminal and they tend to be more non-religious.
>>739045221 You make your point by yourself. If the whole existence is pointless, then all that matters is all you can reach within this dimension. Thus concentrate on possible things, even if they are unprobable.
And keep your morals. The world is in this state because of our ancestors, and western culture deserves being better because of all blood and sweat spilled over the laws and rights we have today. After all, even if you don't believe, your grandparents probably did, and they still helped at making your country a better place to live.
It's pretty much the same as before, you just don't need that fairytale about heaven and hell.
>>739045221 The fun part here is that you can come to that conclusion and still not escape the fact that *you're going to have to choose how to live your life.* Christian or not, that part never changed. If you're asking for advice on how to choose differently now, my only advice is to be as deliberate as possible about it.
>>739045221 there is no intrinsic meaning to life. you decide what gives you meaning personally and pursue it. life forms only want to reproduce but thats the same for all forms of life. we as humans get to derive more meaning from the journey than other life forms that simply exist.
figure out what makes you happy and work at achieving it
>>739063118 Hey man, in my country you get respect, money, neat car, milfs and some boipussy while having to drink wine at least once daily and playing guitar with hot chicks. Being priest is fucking dope.
>>739062812 >>739063209 I didn't grow up in a religious household. My parents aren't anti religion, they just consider it a personal belief and they didn't want to raise me with beliefs they couldn't prove. Once I reached my teens I started looking into religions on my own, enabled by my parents who helped me lend books on the subject from the library. I came to the conclusion that they pretty much espouse the same ideas, without backing those ideas up with fact and then they get in a pissing contest with each other. I've rejected religion so far, because none of them have managed to convince me that a god or gods exist, or that we even need god/s to function as a species.
>>739045221 "He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still" -Revelation 22:11
>>739045221 Life is not about having or finding meaning, it's about creating it.
God did not create us in his image, we created him in ours. You have an infinite number of possibilities and can use the world to your own desire. The responsibility it takes to pull your hands out your pockets and come up with something to do is what made us create gods and religions in the first place, so we can trade our responsibilities for dependencies that would force us to live the life we'd otherwise desire but wouldn't find the will to work for, but you don't need that.
>>739061885 That's circular reasoning, ain't it? There is no God, therefore I can trust my logic and my ability to see evidence, therefore I can conclude with logic and by looking at the evidence that God doesn't exist.
>>739063779 "For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire" - 2 Peter 2:21-22
>>739064289 So basically, if I've heard of Christianity, but decide it isn't for me, I'm automatically unrighteous and filthy? How is that different from Islams "convert or die" doctrine? It's basically saying "I'm better than you and you're going to hell for not agreeing with me".
>>739064048 You can't prove that God does or does not exist, so using logic is pointless. But that ain't even important, the point of religion isn't proving, but believing.
The idea of God dies with believers. Once noone believe in him, he effectively stops existing. Look what happened with all other "dead" religions. Belief in supernatural will always drop to marginal levels as long as people can reason with masses.
>>739045221 >of serious study really its just belief. i mean philosophy isnt fact, its just words to influence you. i dont believe in god or the afterlife in a christian sense but that doesnt mean its any more believable than religion. as long as it doesnt affect others, you should be all for it. just dont be preachy, nobody likes that
>>739064426 So far I've only found evidence of us adapting to life, the universe and whatever. Making up gods and religions was just one of those adaptations. Personally I think me existing through chance is a far greater gift than if someone decided to make me. In a godless universe, I'm incredibly lucky just to exist, while in one with a god I'm virtually a slave to some supernatural being who exalts in building little replicating machines and making rules for them.
>>739064048 It's not circular reasoning. Nowhere is being said that there is no god by the way, just that there is no evidence for god so there's no reason to believe there -is- a god. Not believing is the null position, until evidence comes along that proves there is one. I'm not sure how you're making the logical connections for the rest of that sentence, but good science has one feature that believing in something that isn't proven does not: reproducibility of the outcome. You can trust evidence because in real life applications, it works. That's not circular reasoning.
>>739045221 the fact you're shaken by the idea of your faith being a "farce" would suggest to me that you're lying about your life. There's no way you carried on totally oblivious to any other way of thought and were shaken by a different ideal.
tl;dr grow up, nobody can give you any answers on this subject, just their opinion and it's up to you to set a value for that opinion.
>>739063581 >My parents aren't anti religion, they just consider it a personal belief and they didn't want to raise me with beliefs they couldn't prove. So your parents could prove the moral rules they taught you to be true? I highly doubt that!
>>739064750 And Joseph Smith claimed to be a true prophet of god, but do you give him any credibility? You're still making the claim of "If you don't believe what I believe, you're a bad person by default".
>>739064851 They gave me reasons for why their morals were sound though. At first it was as simple as "Do you like when people hit you? No? then don't hit other people". As I got older, we got deeper into why some types of behavior are better than others in their opinion. There was no need for saying "God doesn't want this" because they explained to me what effect my actions could have on others.
>>739064493 >You can't prove that God does or does not exist, so using logic is pointless. But that ain't even important, the point of religion isn't proving, but believing. Agreed. Religion is not science.
>The idea of God dies with believers. Once noone believe in him, he effectively stops existing. Look what happened with all other "dead" religions. Belief in supernatural will always drop to marginal levels as long as people can reason with masses. Wouldn't be the first time truth is a minority opinion.
>>739065362 Pascal's wager is deeply flawed in that it only takes into consideration that the religion you pick is the right one, and fails to take into consideration all of the thousands of other religions, many of which have a core rule expressly forbidding the worship of false deities.
>>739064698 It's not so much about religion, but about the attitude towards it: Accepting religious beliefs as part of human evolution and society while being an atheist or not accepting them and preaching anti-theism? The latter often comes down to believing in a higher Truth (capital T) in the universe which has to be brought to the ignorant masses, lest they stay unenlightened. Of course, believing in that sort of truth is religion again.
>>739065362 http://www.wikihow.com/Refute-Pascal%27s-Wager >>739065479 I know you didn't, I'm just saying that you are using it as a stick to hit other people over the head with. Many holy books have guys claiming to be the truth and the way, why is your pet belief the right one?
>>739065117 Your parents giving arguments would work if you had been able to argue against them. But you were too young for that when the basic foundations of your morality were laid. Children do not accept parental moral reasoning not for being reasonable, but for being parental. You want your authority figures to like you, therefore you do what they want you to do and internalize that.
>>739065681 >The latter often comes down to believing in a higher Truth (capital T) in the universe which has to be brought to the ignorant masses, lest they stay unenlightened. Of course, believing in that sort of truth is religion again.
I think you misunderstand the position of almost any atheist/anti-theist. People like Richard Dawkins for example aren't preaching a "higher Truth" as you so mockingly put it. The only thing they do is refute the claims of people who are preaching unfounded claims. I don't know of a single reputable atheist/anti-theist who claims to have absolute knowledge. They all acknowledge the fact that they could be wrong and they all share the same notion that the burden of proof hasn't (yet) been met for claims like the paranormal/supernatural/god w/e and would advise anyone to not believe in the claim until it has been proven.
>>739066070 That is circular logic anon. You're claiming "Jesus is the son of god, because someone made a book that claims he said so". Now explain to me why this book is more correct than other books claiming the same thing for other people and religions. >>739066175 That is true and my parents didn't want to add the white noise of improvable beliefs to that cocktail. They instilled morals in me, in order to prepare me for a successful adult life. Once I got old enough to question why these morals are good and I gained the ability to understand their reasoning, they engaged me in my questioning from a social perspective, through an agreed upon social contract in the society I grew up in.
>>739067630 You're still acting on the premise that your baseless claims are somehow true, without providing any reasoning other than "believe what I believe or you're a bad person". If your book is correct, prove it.
>>739066612 Basic moral premises were already laid and, so to speak, neurologically imprinted. Changing them is quite difficult. This applies to society as a whole, too. From this perspective, there is no "agreeing to contract", just an "accepting what is".
>>739045617 Live for the people around you, live because of the people who lift you up whenever you're down, live for everything on this earth you've yet to experience, not for some intangible, imaginary force who's existence is impossible to confirm
>>739066612 unprovable was the word I meant to use. >>739067931 Well from the standpoint of accepting what is, they explained to me why the accepted certain things and rejected others. We live in a society where raping someone is considered bad, yet it still happens. So my parents explained to me why it would be a bad thing to do, in spite of it being something that happens and accepting that fact.
>>739045221 Yo OP, listen to Alan Watts on YouTube. Literally any of his lectures will answer some of your questions, and you can find inner peace through what he teaches. >The point of life is, for every individual, that individual's perceived purpose. This is relative to you: the point of your life is whatever you want it to be. It is your solemn duty to learn how you would like to spend your life. >God, as I see God, is the Dao, which is the universe as it is. What exists is God, moving as it does from and to. The present is the only time that exists, so don't ignore what you think reality is in favor of what it could be.
"Rapig someone is bad" is a variation of "hurting someone is bad", which you learned at an early age, plus your inborn understanding a your own personal bodily integrity, abstracting it to encompass other persons. You can of course rationalize that. But that's just ethics, or philosophy of law, not the psychological reason for you not raping others.
Humans are disgusting, impulse-driven beasts. Rationality is a surface facade. :-)
>>739068350 But we're here because the big bang happened and because things tend to move towards complexity in our universe. The only truly closed natural system we know of is our universe itself. Everything else has sources of energy and matter to become more complex and evolve from. We're here because our way of surviving worked, just like we have thumbs because some ancestor of ours mutated and happened to survive long enough to pass on that trait, which turned out to be beneficial for us. >>739068524 Explain the notion of a conscience then, that is basically a bodily function that we grew to know when doing something to another person would be considered bad or good.
>>739045221 >So what's the point of anything? What's the point of life? There is no answer. Anybody who says that he does have one is lying. The only thing you can do is to put in work into making your life less miserable than it is now and put in work into things that have value to you personally. Nobody but you knows what to do with your life. You should sort out your life starting with little things. You likely have things you can work on in life: simply being a more fit, healthy individual, sorting out your situation with work and/or studying, clean your room, that may be a meme, but its good advise. Thats the only answer there is, put work into what you value.
>>739069501 Not really, it was more of a "as bad as people can be in their natural state, there are also good in that natural state". It depends on choice and choice is something we can discuss and reason our way through, in spite of being disgusting impulse driven beasts. If our environment allows for it, we naturally treat each other with respect, from the same instincts that enable us to kill another person if our environment doesn't allow for what we consider moral behavior.
>>739045221 Seeking purpose in life itself is futile. We are only a bridge between primitive humans and the Superman. Live not for the afterlife or for strangers, only for yourself. Remember that there will be a man after you and it's only your duty to ensure progress and prevent regression.
>>739045221 You are making a huge mistake. By all means give up on organized religion, but continue to study the Bible and find the truth for yourself. No Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans ever they were the beginning of the HEBREW people. No Eating apples was not the first sin. Look at the punishment it fits the ACTUAL crime.
There will be no rapture it is a lie a word that is used not at all in the Bible. Armageddon will one day happen but no one is going to be evacuated in advance of it.
So by all means ignore the liars in the funny hats who tell you Ham became black when Noah (A man) cursed him (Nonsense)! Black Africans existed from the 5th "day" of creation on and preceded the Hebrew race on to this planet.
Finally feel free to give up on men and their foolish teachings and traditions that make void Gods word (Which is what God says in the Bible about all religion) Give up on men but don't give up on God.
He kept his promises and hopefully one day will be kind enough to explain why he has pulled this cruel joke called "life" on all of us?
>>739070349 See what I get from this post is "everything we know about god was made up by man, but he's still real though, because the men who made the genesis story were not lying as opposed to all men who came after them". This is not meant to be an attack on you though, just how I understand your words.
>>739070760 God once explained himself as if to a child. The explanation was not detailed it was given in simplicity. Mankind has since striven to make it a lie, either intentionally and knowingly by some (Revelations 2:9) or unintentionally by others. Either way I recommend the observation of the Golden Rule. While ignoring the lies that come from behind a pulpit.
Too many Churches claim to have the truth and would be glad to eventually share it if you pay them enough. I struggle to follow Christs teachings and to share the truth anonymously and free of charge. Yes the Bible contains errors, but one can still study that book and find the truth with in it.
>>739070909 No it is to be born, to live and hopefully learn humility, to learn to resist harming others and eventually to die thus learning that we should not so willingly take away from others this gift called life either now or in our next existence.
>>739071310 But how do you know he did that? If you base that claim on a book, which you in the same breath claim to be full of falsities, why should I rely on that book. That is like putting people in a kitchen where half of the ingredients are poisonous, nothing is labeled and saying "go ahead, make some food, experiment with what you've got".
Even in Mose's time some were trying to pervert the word of God (Pentateuch and Torah) Moses was forced to write it all down in the Massorah's to try and fix its meaning for us in the future. So some truth has made its way through to us.
War happened in Heaven itself. Lucifer deceived a third of Heaven. Another third would not choose a side. The last third while loyal to God? Arrogantly demanded the deaths of the other 2.
So God made the Earth void erased all he had made and seeded mankind all about this place so that ALL of us would experience life and death and learn empathy for those that were living. He promised he too would do this teat called life and even revealed which tribe he would be born into. All that is the OT.. The NT is when he fulfilled all that. And revealed his plan for the big lie that would be foisted on those who remain here during Armageddon. This lie to be played on that third that were loyal but arrogant will prove to them that the devil can fool anyone and Gods judgment of him in particular is just so we should all stop fighting about it and let it play out to its conclusion.
Nope you don't need to sit your butt in a pew and pay tithes to men in funny hats.
You just need to treat others the way you would want to be treated and await our next life where the answers will finally be revealed.
I am not tryiong to make a set of rules or to make it more complex.
I don't teach in parable I am very plain in teaching all this.
I hope it will spark your interest and you will seek until you find the truth where ever you may find it.
Jesus challenged their presumption and their power in His day and He seriously interfered with their graft when He drove the money changers- out of the temple in Jerusalem. That act summed up His entire career He was an indignant, earnest reformer. The Sanhedrin had reached the lowest depth of corruption. The murder of Jesus ended its criminal reign for a time. The Jews as a mass did not understand what was happening; they had been misled by the Sanhedrin and the rabbis. The Sanhedrin consisted of seventy men
who ruled civil affairs. They had previously ruled criminal affairs which power was taken from them by the Roman government. There was also an- other Sanhedrin consisting of twenty men, who ruled religious affairs.- Jesus fought both of them. Why did the Sanhedrin frame Jesus? Because he advocated the law of God and Moses, the law of limitation, which Moses wrote in the old testa- ment (Leviticus chapter 25). Jesus wanted excessive private fortunes limited by law in order to save civilization from collapse.
Why did the Sanhedrin frame Jesus? Because he advocated the law of God and Moses, the law of limitation, which Moses wrote in the old testa- ment (Leviticus chapter 25). Jesus wanted excessive private fortunes limited by law in order to save civilization from collapse.
>>739072540 Nice labels. Puts it all in a neat package so you can then do what? Ignore it? Yeah I don't have a clue what sectarian means I will have to go google it. (and I will) But until then perhaps consider it regardless of what labels you may want to apply and see if you can find anything of use with in it.
>>739072367 Again, this assumes that the book has enough validity to be considered the word of god. It reads more like a genealogy text with interspersed ideas of how people thought the universe came to be at that time to me. There are even older creation myths that deviates from the one in the bible to consider. So I'm still of the position that if some of the information in the bible is false, we cannot know which parts aren't false and thus can't use it as a basis of proof for how the universe came to be. It is an interesting piece of cultural history to me, with some moral teachings that I find useful, but I can't see it as a proof of god in any sense of the word, other than a proof that people have believed it.
>>739072765 >sectarian Sectarianism is a form of bigotry, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching relations of inferiority and superiority to differences between subdivisions within a group
Hmm well if YOU think I consider myself your better, I am sorry.
I am not sharing this as if I were perfect I am far from it. I share this with all as I consider all to be my brothers. We are all the creation of God wandering about this place in confusion.
I do not tell you these thing to make myself feel better or superior. I do it out of a sense of caring a desire to wake folks up from a deep slumber of obliviousness. We know what it feels like to be treated unfairly. But so often we ignore our own actions and how they make others feel.
It is sad that a little choice like changing lanes with out signalling can be a serious comment about our own willingness to care for others.
>>739073647 See I take your skepticism a bit further, you question the motives of the school that you claim tried to pervert the work of god. I question the motives of those who claimed there was a god in the first place, why would they claim this and codify their claims in a book or oral tradition? The bible is nothing more than a historical book on bronze age life for me and a highly limited one at that, since later people decided to edit it for their own gains. The questionable source of the bible itself, is enough for me to decide on not believing in it.
>>739061885 >I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of evidence and burden of proof.
So do you and most people.
Case and point: >What do you think is more rational? Believing in something without evidence/the ability to prove it, or believing something that is backed up by demonstrable evidence?
Lack of evidence for the existence of something doesn't mean it does not exist. It just means you don't have the evidence to definitively prove it does exist.
Moreover when talking about God this all goes out the window anyway. By definition there is no way to prove god exists. Nor any way to prove god does not exist. At least not for us.
On a whim god could literally delete reason and logic, the laws of the universe which science is based, and the universe itself.
Most people like you are too wrapped up in the idea of god being some ridiculous floating bearded man in the sky and think it's as simple as going to space and saying "well I see no god here, see told you God wasn't real!".
>>739074807 But if we can't prove or disprove that gods exist, how can you claim he has the power to do these things? Any claim you make of his powers aren't provable, so why should people believe them?
>>739045525 >Enough of these existential questions nope my brain keeps formulating them
>>739045617 > Anything deeper than that? I think we should start making our religion, a self made religion that fits our purpose to be happy in life. Only constraint are respecting societal rules where you live in, or try to invent new one that are possibily adaptable to your society.
>>739045628 >Go tell other devout religious people of how you've seen the This is worse then being a Geova witness
>>739045976 >When I die I'll rot into the ground What will happen to your consciousness? can you exist without it?
>>739074723 >Well the definition of sectarian starts with bigotry. I used the word as an derivative from "sect" and in the sense of "denominational". I wasn't aware of that other meaning. (My translation program isn't, either.)
>What did you mean when you said my posts were "non traditional" (which I agree with) I meant exactly that: Non-traditional, i.e. not belonging to a historically established christian tradition. That means that you're probably some guy who thinks he discovered "the true meaning" of Scripture, the faith, or sth. like that. I tend to be cautious with such ideas.
>>739045221 Just go on about your life as you normally would. Now you have a free Sunday. Just because you dropped practicing a religion doesn't mean you can't take from it the good teachings it provides and apply it to everyday life. Your actions have consequences that effect you and others here and now, and not so much that you're going to hell or heaven because of your actions. So do shit that makes and others around you happy, keep yourself within due bounds, and don't take no shit. Your really not changing much about your life op
>>739075012 >claim he has the power to do these things?
Because it's implied in the nature of existence of being god. Like by definition this is what the term god implies
>Any claim you make of his powers aren't provable, so why should people believe them?
Good see this is the fundamental understanding we need to address. The question isn't whether god is real or not in an objective reality based sense but whether or not you have a way to convince others that it god is real.
Whether something actually exists or not is different from whether you can convince people to believe that it exists or not.
It's a subtle difference but important.
As to how you would do it, the answer is that we don't know. At least not yet.
Even if you were to die now and walk through the golden gates to saint Peter sitting at a desk reading a scroll of your life's deeds and then you were admitted into heaven and god came down from a light above you, you could always still question and conceive of the idea that maybe this is not god, just a being that is significantly more than you are such that for all intents and purposes it is god.
But maybe there is more? Something above them?
Existence is strange, chaotic, and complex. Don't get upset if simple 2+2=4 level logic can't explain everything.
>>739045221 >But now all of that is meaningless... So what's the point of anything? What's the point of life? There never was a point to begin with, in religion as well if you think about it.
This is what we do; we make up a point in life and usually throw our lives at it to make it the best we can. If we are confronted that our point of life in one way or another is unrealistic or unreachable we adjust.
Make up your own reason of living, it could be a simple as to start a family and rais them to the best of your ability. Or to search and explore things; could be science, could be traveling, could be having a hobby for all i care.
Ultimately there is no goal, no reason to live, no deeper truth. But should that stop you from living your life to the fullest? I think not.
Also i dont have tits so here is some random Russian dude i saved on /b/ quite a while ago.
>>739045221 the point of life is a philosophical question that people have tried to answer since the dawn of time. I personally believe that the point of life is to take what is understood or learned with a grain of salt and do what benefits you and people closest to you. Survival, moderation, and being the best you can be to yourself and others. Most importantly, try enjoy it. That to me is the meaning of life.
>>739076190 If it is implied in the nature of god that he can do all of these things to our universe, wouldn't there be indications of it? I mean even the humblest of painters sign their work somehow. I might complain about us not having sufficient skills or tools to explain the universe around us, but I would never complain about an answer the might seem illogical to me if it can be proven to be true. Which basically informs my standpoint, I don't see any reason in believing or worshipping a god that can't be proven or disproven. If he/she/it by nature is an entity we meet after death, I will reserve my judgment until I die and experience it for myself.
>>739045221 You're purpose from an anon outsider perspective would be to use your unique education to either help people with crisis' of faith yourself or use it elsewhere you don't need to throw it all out just go out and expierence life see how it lines up with biblical teachings maybe one day write a book of your own giving your detailed perspective on life before and after being under the veil of a faith, the baby cries when it is born as it doesn't know any better, you are crying now because you can't see the splendour that's now possible for you
Only if God chose to do leave indications. And we would still have to see them for what they are. Which gets back to the whole "prove it" aspect.
As an aside I think part of the problem is people tend look at everything from the bias of trying to prove god does not exist. If I show you something thats is supposed to prove god you will immediately start trying to figure out way that this will be flawed or actually proves god does not exist. You will jump through mental hoops if the end result is that you can re-affirm your believe that God is bullshit.
You are scared of the reality where God exists. Probably because of years of threats of religious damnation and hellfire.
You don't have to believe. That's fine. Just realize that you have just as much basis to to claim definitively and absolutely that God does not exist as someone does to claim there is a teacup orbiting Pluto.
Which is to say very little. It's basically a 50/50 shot. But trying to use logic and scientific law to debate the ecistence of the entity that created those things is in itself logically fallacious. Like trying to define a word using that word.
I tend to believe in the existence of a god only as a result of some interesting experiences (as you said you reserve judgement until you experience it yourself), these experiences have 2 implications either God exists or there is some crazy other dimensional world filled with weird ethereal creatures that exist by some law of physics we have yet to discover..... Which at that point fuck it god might exist too.
>>739076108 >Well there is A Church that teaches the same stuff I do. I am not the first to discover it. >The number of folks who believe what I believe is VERY SMALL. Does that church see any historical group/church as a precursor?
>>739079023 I'm not really afraid of a world where a god exists, I live by the rule that I am free to do what I want, to the point that it doesn't negatively affect other people. I would never claim with 100% certainty that there is no god, I'm more of the position that I'm going to live my life like there isn't one, because I don't see myself being affected by a god or affecting a god in any way. I just try to be the best version of me I can be and hope that if there is a god, he will judge me on the merit of my actions and not the contents of my beliefs.
>>739045221 Just live your life as you would when you were a Christian but the only difference would be you don't worship a higher power any more. Just don't become a "Reddit Atheist" ya know, those guys who are atheists but will go out of their way to have religious arguments and tell others they're wrong for having their beliefs. As long as you're not an asshole about it everyone (yes, even your family) will come to respect your beliefs as long as you respect theirs. I'm half Irish and half italian, ironically both sides of my family are VERY devoted Catholics but even they came to respect my beliefs it's all about time and having respect for each other. I wish you good luck on your journey OP
>>739080256 OK so you post a meme image probably do not even understand what is going on. A group of evil folks have infitrated the Jewish religion and have with held all the information that they knew from the rest of mankind.
These evil one's infiltrate nearly every group and government. They pervert the truth and control the money.
>>739081026 >Hitler killed off most of the true jews here is were you are wrong. hitler gave jews the option to leave in 1933, most of them left, the remainder were put in to concentration camps because hitler didnt knew who the zionts satanist were. only in the east they murdered all the jews. and they are better of because of it.
Besides, ww2 was a set up by the jews, jews themselfs were snitched out and they culled the weak strengtening the genetics of the jews.
>>739080256 For over a thousand years most Christians believed that the Church was the New Israel. The idea that the Jews are still the Chosen People wasn't mainstream until recently. And the idea that the zionist entity in the Levant was to be supported out of religious reasons is even more recent.
>>739080337 One can argue about Apocrypha all day long and I'm willing to listen, but the idea that there could be a whole new book completing Holy Scripture was revealed just a few generations ago is imho blasphemous.
>>739081229 The set up was by the descendants of Cain who only claimed to be Jews. The Cainites have always tried to destroy the Hebrew people and to claim to be the jews.
I think that like myself you fail to understand what is the same here and the distinction.
Christ was promised to be born of the line of Judah and Levi and to be the HEBREW Messiah. The Jewish thing is a deception foisted on all of mankind. Christ has been and gone. The Chosen people were to be the line he was born of and after that mattered not at all. Those who claim today that they are Jews and are thus important reveal that they are liars who - reject Messiah - and do the very will of evil.
TLDR They are NOT Jews and it insults the line of Judah to allow them to claim such.
>>739046300 I went through the same thing and when it happened to me I just went crazy with drugs and women. When I got married years later I ended up going back to my old church. I don't regret partying it up for that time though.
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