__Real Talk__ Have been a fundamentalist Christian for 35 years

Better late than never man!

>>739045221
Now you get to live your life free of all that imaginary crap.

It's a much cooler world.

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>>739045221
More religion free tits.

2 weeks of study won't give you any rational perspective. You didn't do much. Come back when you understand the point of it.

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>>739045221
Enough of these existential questions. Step one about life: Invent yourself. These sort of ponderables will get you no where.

I posted this a while back, and I think it will pertain to you well enough.

"If people looked at the stars each night, I'd bet that they'd live considerably more different -- once you look into infinity, you get a good sense of how small things really are." Our sun. Our home planet, Earth. You. People often look at these elements of the universe, and somehow it makes them feel insignificant. I wish people would consider this life thing to be more valuable. More valuable than the time which limits its experience. We know so little of the universe, but one thing is certain - it is undeniably beautiful. Isn't the ability to just experience this more profound than the black hole at the center of our own galaxy? More profound than the largest galaxy in the universe? More profound than the cosmos itself? We are all beautiful arrangements of dust and gas, occupying space and time, making choices, falling in love, reading, writing, thinking, stealing, murdering, betraying. With beauty, something must be ugly. For without ugliness, the beautiful parts of life would become dull. Unenthralling. And that, in itself, is beautiful in its own way. A strange, but beautiful way. I would never try to do something ugly to this planet or anyone trying to experience life, but ugliness is necessary to make something beautiful, beautiful. We may need to remember that from time to time. To encourage us to not dwell on the little things. To truly admire ourselves, our insignificance, and our significance.

Take this with a grain of salt. Of inspiration. There is so much to experience in this one life and for the first time you can truly see it for what it really is. Go an experience as much as you possibly can before time runs out. For which is short, so make it count.

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>>739045221
Blame the jews. make it your lives work to exspose the truth.

>>739045401
No it isnt, as there is no hope or salvation from this heap of shit. besides just because you arent relegious doesnt means muslims arnt.

>>739045401
Anything deeper than that? What's your basis for life? What motivates you? Do you ever have (or have you ever had) the feeling that someone is looking over your shoulder all the time and judging you? ...making a list and checking it twice so to speak?

>>739045221
Go tell other devout religious people of how you've seen the light at been inlightened. ALso, yes life is to avoid pain and achieve pleasure, congratulations of freeing yourself from the slavementality that permeates christianity (and any other religion for that matter)

>>739045530
The lies can always become truth if the majority believes them enough. Which is how the current status quo is. You must rely upon developing syllogism to guide us out of our delusions of afterlife and God. Be mad. Be upset. Not one smart person can thwart the path of a stampede of driven morons..

Smoke pot.

>>739045511
Understand the point of what?

And for what it's worth... I've studied Christianity for 20+ years. I've known about most of its weaknesses and shortcomings for 2 decades. The 2 weeks of study was more about logically re-processing a few key doctrines and arguments than actual book work.

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Freedom!!! Freedom... Freedom...

You've gotta give for what you take....

Life is fleeting, you only get one shot. There is only one immortality now. What you do, what you say, how you treat yourself and other people.... that will be your legacy. You don't have to be famous, or create some piece of cool technology, or make history. Leave the world just a little better, so that someone remembers you when your gone and is thankful that you were here.

My view on life as a non-theist is fairly basic. When you look at evolution and species as a whole, the entire point of the -species- is simply to exist, and ideally continue to exist. Some people view this as a need to procreate and have kids, but that's just a means to an end.

Thus I see that as long as I merely exist in the world, I'm fulfilling my purpose. To add to this, if I'm somehow enriching or aiding the lives of those around me, I'm adding to the deal. It's nothing complicated, it's just a matter of not being a dick, helping people when you can, and generally being someone that people like having around so you feel like you're at least some kind of positive benefit to the race.

When I die I'll rot into the ground and the energy my body used will dissipate into the world around me so I'll still sort of exist in everything afterwards anyway. And up until then, I'm helping my species exist.

My recommendation? Watch the original Cosmos series (the Carl Sagan one) and just get a feel for how awesome and big the universe is. Once you find inner peace that you really are doing okay just by merely existing, life becomes rather chill.

You have the potential of studying and analyzing things from a more neutral perspective

Or you can just be the next worthless atheist kid, only much older, smoke weed, try to prove some religious people wrong with memes and parroting celebrity stuff.

>>739045525
Profound thoughts. Thank you anon.

I wish I could explain how weird it feels to go from belief to non-belief for someone who's never been there.

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Now you can be an obnoxious atheist for a decade, wake up surrounded by violent muslims, and then realise too late that Christians are actually pretty cool guy

Why does any thing have to change?
Does your morality have to flipflop?

Go about your business, mingle with the same friends, do the same things just don't church or pray. No brainer.
If you are looking for support to go ape shit in your life, meh, not from me. Play and stuff up but if regrets or conscious kickis in can only be on your plate, only you to blame, if.

>>739045221
>What now /b/?
Step 1: Secure good quality of living for yourself
Step 2: Secure good quality of living for your lineage
Step 3: Live the rest of your life and help others because it is the good thing to do as it helps the human race

And don't be a fedora about religion because a lot of the stuff in there can still be good to live by

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>>739045953
Nice thoughts. But despite being a Christian, I secretly never reallllly cared about helping other people. I mostly did stuff for charities because I was supposed to... not because I genuinely wanted to.

And more religion free tits.

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>>739045976
A rather chill life sounds pretty awesome, actually.

Does anything make you feel guilty anon? Christianity had me feeling guilty allllll the time.

>>739045939
Nonsense thread. Studying is only logic. Opening your mind and heart is soul connecting, be it to anything. If your such a specialist, describe to me the ingredients in Christ's Holy Annointing Oil. Then tell me you've lived a life of partaking in miracles and visions, and I'll listen to your findings. Also, didn't post your "magical revelation" to enlighten the world with.

>>739046139
For me, it was like burning yourself on the stove accidentally, despite your parents tellinf you to keep your distance because you would burn yourself. From trusting their word, to understanding their word. You can never truly understand something without experiencing it first. Unless you are an individual of great empathy.

>>739045221
>What's the point of life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

>>739045221
dont you have a family to love?

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>>739045221

>>739046236
Waitttt. I don't hate Christians. I know a TON of Christians and they are really good people. They are the meek, quiet people who pay their taxes, raise their kids, raise money and build houses for tornado victims..... the vasttt majority of them are good people.

So don't confuse my new-found lack of faith for disdain for the people.

>>739046398
Agree with this 100%. Love it. Thanks anon.

>>739046750
What in the fucking fuck are you trying to say? Literally incoherent garbage. Wny did you even take the time to answer the captcha for that shit?

>>739047296
lmao

>>739046998
Hardcore, lifelong Christian wife.
No kids.

May lose the wife over leaving Christ.

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Get all Mister Rictus up in this shit storm of a world.

>>739045221
What changed your faith?

>>739045525
holy fuck youre a gigantic faggot.

>>739047447
Oh, well are there any qualities of her that you still like?

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>>739045221
Now you'll realize you alone are responsible for all parts of your life. Being religious is essentially working around problems by pointing to a higher authority, and while I can understand people's life can be so horrible that they just have to believe in something it's still only psychological cheating.

The basic values of christianity are good: treat others well, help them, meet people (it doesn't have to be in a church)... that works quite well without any god. Except it's not ONE imaginarity that looks over your shoulder, but instead other people are looking over your shoulder (i.e. remember what you did for them).

> What now
Just live on. People are mistaken again and again. You think you wasted time and energy? You're not the first and by far not the last. Maybe you want to compare your knowledge with other religions - you can still use what you know.

> I read Greek
Understanding other languages is never pointless.

>>739047296
Because I've also studied for a lifetime, and was born Druidic and became Wiccan for 16 years before permitting Christ's Power and ultimate Authority. Used cannabis for 15 years, and finally connected with Angelic Realm and Higher Heights that Are. I need no church nor text, but have studied the teachings of Christ for so long that the bigger images emerged and I've assimilated them into truth and faith via my open-minded life experiences.

>>739047808
Also, I believe we manifest what we empower and connect to, thus, if you believe in nothing, you die into nothingness. Hindus, their gods, reincarnation etc etc. We manifest, and are born with Free Will. Everything is a choice made by each of us alone, via each person's Free Will.

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>>739047584
Many things...

[1] The problem of suffering
[2] The obvious errancy of the Bible (check Bart Ehrman on YT)
[3] Jack Van Impe and all the pre-trib rapturists are bat shit crazy -- To expand on this... Jack can literally quote 60-70% of the Bible. He knows it backwards and forwards. But he is so profoundly wrong about "End Times" stuff. It's literally laughable how many times his story has changed over the decades and how many times he's been wrong. How can that be? The Holy Spirit is supposed to help us properly understand and share the scriptures!!!. Van Impe is as phony as a snake oil salesman. SO... if this man who can quote the whole damn Bible... and knows it inside out... is allowed by the Holy Spirit to mislead MILLIONS of fellow Christians every single week... where is the TRUTH in that? <--- that's a very condensed version of my argument/problem.
[4] Obvious unanswered prayers -- even when by the formulas promised by Jesus himself -- the prayers *should* be answered.

...and many more.


More tiddies

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Life is what you make we are born alone and die alone enjoy what you will don't others be best to yourself

>>739047994
Thus, by all means, choose thy fates with wisdom and deep experiences. Logic is only a limited theory of what little we know, a hypothesis at best. So if you believe you are a god of your own making, then by all means be a satanist. You will attract what you do or do not believe into your very existence, and afterlife also. You Will it to be so.

>>739047652
Sure. But I doubt she will be able to handle life without Christ.

All her music. TV shows. Friends. Family. Parents. Nieces & Nephews. College. High School. Charities. Study groups. Even her job........ everything in her life is centered in some way around Christianity.

It's a big black chasm when belief is all you've every known.

>>739047671
Thanks mate. Really nice post. Appreciate your insights.

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>>739045221
>theoLOGy

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Sorry OP, but I believe you're wrong. There are thousands upon thousands of documented cases of reincarnation and near death experiences which, while some can be explained by the brain dying, can't all be explained this way. Every reincarnated child speaks of a man of light who gave them the choice to return to life or continue on. There IS a God, and while he may not be a big guy with a beard, there is a singular energy that is responsible for the existence of everything. Without will there is no creation. The laws of our existence didn't just write themselves.

I suggest you look at the science; study some Quantum physics - the universal force behind the universe - and the reincarnation studies I mentioned. Christianity once spoke of it too, except it was changed early on in the Bible to be one life and one life only.

I get you're disillusioned with Christianity considering it's such a watered down, dogmatic version of the truth. But use it as a jumping off point to discover the real truth. The purpose of life is to experience be it good or bad. Don't blame God for your bad experiences; we all play the game with the same rule set, even though some of us have a better start than others.

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>>739046500
>I mostly did stuff for charities because I was supposed to... not because I genuinely wanted to
Then you're pretty much an asshole. There are countless ways to help others, maybe you still find one of them that enjoys you instead of being a nuisance.

>>739048779
This is what you get when you allow yourself to consider other peoples' emotions to be "evidence".

>>739048779
>documented cases of reincarnation
What in the actual fuck are you talking about.

>>739045221
I'm not even religious but have a look at this
>35 years
>2 weeks destroys your "belief"

You must not of ever really cared deep down if it took 2 weeks to bring you down

>would never hire you for a job

>>739045221
Entropy

>>739047033
good stuff my man.
too many people i've met become anti-theists, and indeed anti-Christian.
dot dot dot and now look at the world

>>739045221
Travel, go on adventures, drink beer in strange pubs, fuck strange women, repeat

>>739045221
>Is it only to seek pleasure and avoid pain? Is that all there is?
you got it in one.
Welcome to reality, now you know why people work so hard to avoid it.

>>739048747
The fuck is this faggotry?

>>739048320
Honestly dude, all the academic understand of scriptural minutiae is useless if you don't seek and experience the Holy Spirit. It's like your whole life you're like "oh I love water I literally swim in a pool all day" but merely being IN water isn't the same as swallowing it. Heck, you can drown in water and never actually get a taste.

Go experience the Holy Spirit. it's real.

>>739048779
Please reexamine my OP. I did not say that I do not believe in God. TBH, I don't know where I am with that right now. Agnostic -- somewhere between Deism and atheism, but closer to Deism.

I am deeply familiar with the work of Hugh Ross and other astrophysicists who've essentially proven that there had to be a finger of some kind that pushed the first domino (and authored the Laws of nature you mentioned). ...not to say I understand all of it. But I understand enough to know that there probably IS some kind of intelligence out there.

But I'm now thoroughly unconvinced that that intelligence is God as described in the Bible. I do not believe that he listens and answers prayers. I do not believe that he cares if we masturbate. I do not believe that he has a list that he's writing down all of our bad deeds. I do not believe he sends every unbelieving sould to eternal damnation in Hell.

I am NOT saying that the Bible is worthless. Or denying the value in Jesus' teachings. Only that God and Jesus are not what they claim to be in Christianity.

Beyond that, I have a lot of lingering questions.

BTW... Christianity never had anything to do with reincarnation as you describe. Many spurious sources have tried to interject that into the faith. But it was never there originally.... by originally I'm talking 1st century.

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>>739045221
>2 weeks of serious study
>degree in New Testament Theology

Well, OP. First of all don't listen to most of the idiots on here. Just this one. Only me.

You're in a unique spot in life where you can have a proper mid-life crisis. That's some good shit right there, it's not that you haven't accomplished shit before you were 50, it's because you now realize nothing you accomplish will matter ever. EVER. You get to freely roam about (assuming you're in good enough health to do that) and experience life which is pretty fucking great. You can find a girl on tinder then put your penis in AND out of them. You can finally experience LIFE you can trip balls on LSD without feeling guilty, you can eat the mushrooms and snort the coke, you can do so much. Me? I'll be dead before I'm probably 40, you've lived longer than I probably will and have experienced probably less shit. Ever sky-dived naked? I did that on my 22nd birthday. Ever actually hit a hooker? That shit's fucking FIRE. And I mean REALLY hit them, none of that half mast open handed slap shit. And then you drop a roll of cash with a little extra in it next to them and leave. You ever blow 300k in 1 month and go off the grid and train hopped/hitchhiked around the US. while your investments make money back throughout the rest of the year? Literally the richest homeless person ever, I slept and ate, and shit with the dirtiest of them. You ever drive your car into oncoming traffic and get away with it? You ever snort coke off of a hookers tits and asshole? (They manage to make you share) Dude you're scratching the surface of your life finally. I'm not even an atheist either.

>You finally get to live dude, that's what.

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as a fact.

>>739048942
>asshole

Have you ever written a $50,000 personal check to pay for clean water wells and schools in some god forsaken African country -- trusting that your money would go to actually help people -- but knowing it would probably get squandered/stolen by banana republic gov't officials instead?

You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not talking about a few pennies in the Salvation Army bucket.

>>739045221
Be patient, you will slowly discover who you are as you're shedding more and more dogma.
Congratulations on your newfound mental freedom - that can't have been an easy thing to break with. Applause.

>>739045221
Kill yourself.
You finally learned the truth. Hooray. Big fucking deal. Grow up. Practically everybody in my country is religion free and nobody makes a big deal out of it. LOL

>>739050087
Careful with those edges, man. You might hurt yourself. You'd be in a bit of a mental conundrum if you suddenly realized everything you know is wrong. Black is white up is down and short is long.

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>>739045221
No amount of study is a waste of time. Over 30 years of religious practicing and you have come to the conclusion that you don't believe. You still have all of that knowledge, all of the understanding of the religion.
Just find away of channeling that intellect into something that isn't an imaginary tale to govern the masses.

>>739049169
You have not been following along. Reread this thread. As I said above...

I have a degree in New Testament Theology and I read Greek.

I've studied Christianity for 20+ years. I've known about most of its weaknesses and shortcomings for 2 decades. The 2 weeks of study was more about logically re-processing a few key doctrines and arguments than actual book work.

My misgivings have been brewing for a long time. But once I sat down and really unpacked the issues all the way... it took almost no time to understand the unavoidable truth.

That was the easy part. Knowing what to do next is the part that's weird.

Since you're not religious at all, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

>>739050229
Ignore the dim kids, they haven't the education, clarity of mind or humility enough to understand a shift in paradigm and hard it is to experience.

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>>739049892
>a $50,000 personal check to pay
That was one other way I meant (of course nobody has an idea if you don't fucking mention it - that's the whole concept of "no idea").

I don't believe in money as help, tho. With my knowledge, experience and abilities I'm helping others, but almost never thru money. But if this is your way, go on.

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>>739045221
Life is a means to transfer energy more efficiently. The only real objective is reproduction. That is If you want to cut out all the sentimental pussy shit. It's probably not all that rare either.

>>739049232
Well said.

I've been watching some of the atheists on YT. WTF? And they think the Jesus people are too rabidly religious? Their anti-theism and overt blasphemes (just to be offensive) are just as grotesque as the Christian televangelists.

They are caricatures of themselves.

>>739049261
Sounds fun. But I don't like beer. ha ha...

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>>739049520
Actually.... the Holy Spirit is a huge disappointment for me. I have spent countlesssssssss hours studying, praying, and earnestly pursuing (you know "asking, seeking, knocking") the Holy Spirit.

And you know what? Fucking NOTHING.

He ain't there. And I'm angry about it.

Jesus promised He would send the HS. Did He? You say yes. I say no. Are you more sincere than me? Are your tears and late-night-on-your-face-before-god prayers more better than mine?

Do you have a better singing voice? Does he like your Sunday suit better than mine? Or maybe your tie? Or ????

Where the hell is this Holy Spirit who is supposed to answer our prayers? And reveal the scriptures to us correctly?

Why doesn't he help us to understand His supposedly infallible scriptures? Why didn't he tell Whisenant that He wasn't returning/Rapturing us out of here in 1988?

>>739050917
Learn to

>>739049927
Thanks man. Good post.

>>739050229
Thanks.

>>739045221
Don't delve too deep into the meaning of life, for you will find there isn't any, it's a pure coincidence we are here and serve no greater purpose or goal. Better to remain ignorant and live your life like an ant in an anthill, going about your business, before finding out it doesn't really serve a purpose anyway.

>He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long enough into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

>>739050367
Thanks. Well said.

>>739045953
great song, great fucking 90s models!

>>739051845
Nigger on /b/ dropping Mark Twain...

Wow.

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Thanks guys for a good discussion. I'm out.

Final titties --- because "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ" -- or not. Whatever.

Do what thou wilt.

>>739045221
Post your degree, I want to see what a degree is Bible looks like

>>739048529
>>739052301

OP if you're still here, theres an organization that might be able to help you and your wife. They even have a hotline if you need to talk to someone.

https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org

>>739045221
if u r this pathetic and cant find a reason to live, u should kill yourself - u made yourself worthless

>>739045221
Αμα διαβαζεις ελληνιkα διαβασε αυτο , ειναι ηλιθιο γενιkα να πιστευεις σε kατι μπο δε μπορεις να αποδειξεις οτι υπαρχει , ειναι σαν να σου λεω μια ωραια ιστορια για εναν σουπερ ηρωα kαι να την πιστευεις γτ σε εkανε να νιωσεις ασφαλης. Ειναι σkατα k λαθος

>>739045585
The sort of hope and salvation you're looking for is a boondoggle though.
If you want hope and salvation in this life, you have to work for it and make it happen for yourself.
This means taking responsibility for your life and a decision of what you want to do with it.

>>739045221
Now you can start reading up on the holocaust and realize how all that was a farce.

>>739045221
The best thing about a faith-free life is the fact that you are accountable to no one. And I don't mean that you can do whatever you want regardless of consequences. I mean that you and no one else can choose what is important in your life, where you want to go, what you want to do, and who you want to be.

The hard part is actually putting it into practice. How the hell do you decide what you want in a single, non-refundable life?

Good luck OP.

>>739045221
>So what's the point of anything? What's the point of life?
Sounds like you need to find religion.

>>739053847
He just found his way out of one religion, why would he join another?
At least give him some time to experience himself being accountable to only himself.
Usually once people figure out that they are 100% responsible for their own actions, they tend think more about these actions before going through with them. Which most of the time makes them more considerate people.

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>>739049488
Dubs logged

>>739045221
What now? Nothing now. There's no point.
Just do the things that you enjoy and try to make sustainable and incremental improvements to your life and the people who you care for.

The secret to living a contented life is to have low standards, don't give a shit and learn to be patient.

>>739045221
become a religion teacher. my religion teacher in college was atheist too and we read from the holy book of darwin.

>>christfag for 35 years --
>>since I was 7 years old
found the repentant oldfag

>>739045221
Did you have to practice self flagellation like those hardcore Christians seem to do?

>>739052281
no, you are the nigger on /b/
do not drop Mark Twain, just drop dead

>>739047003
this is funny fuckn
is this part of a longer film?

>>739048324
>Life is what you make
L0Lno fgt pls
Life is what you are given.

>>739046236
>you can be an obnoxious atheist
...aaand you can be an obstreperous Christian faggot.

>>739045221
>My entire life has been framed by a deep and steadfast Christian faith.

Posts on /b/
I call bullshit

>>739045221
Watch Rick and Morty

>>739045530
If pagan Europe was so strong, how did Rome manage to conquer it?
If christian Europe was so weak, how did it manage to not be conquered by Muslims?

>>739045221
You're 42 years old and posting on /b/ about your screwed up view of spirituality? You're mentally ill, like all atheists

>>739046956
/thread

>>739057861
>You don't believe what I believe, you must be sick or something.

>>739045221
>So for the first time in my life, I'm religion free.
Sad!

>>739058110
Don't knock it before you try it.
Being responsible for all of your actions can be daunting at first, but after a while you derive a certain pride from being responsible for yourself.

>>739058036
Well... Sure, why not? I mean, if there is some sort of higher reality which manifests or reveals itself through nature or sth. like that and someone doesn't get it, maybe there is indeed sth. wrong with him, right?

>>739058228
Of course I am responsible for my actions. Who else could be? Sure, there are my genes and my upbringing and my culture etc. etc., but in the end, it's me who's doing stuff and who has to bear responsibility for my actions.

You're really a sheep, two weeks of people telling you shit is enough to completely turn your life around, believing in something new? Think for yourself faggot

>>739045221
you can finally start caring about what's true and not what makes you feel good.that's a big step forward.

>>739045221
May be a farce, but you're still better off being religious. Society is MUCH better off religious.

>>739058369
lurk more and read the thread faggot. you won't sound like such a fool then. OP was wrestling this for like 20 years, only last 2 weeks did he sit down and objectively think it out.

>>739058230
First of all, what is sth an abbreviation of?
Second of all, I've seen no actual evidence for any gods existing and I've been looking for it.
>>739058343
Well yeah, but my point was that when you don't have to do specific things because of a belief in a god, you get to think through why avoiding certain behaviors can be beneficial.
Its not "Do not kill, because god says so" anymore, it becomes "do not kill because you would not like others to kill you", which in my opinion is a better moral basing than "god said so".

>>739058599
something. it's a pretty fag abbreviation

>>739058675
People abbreviate words with only two syllables?
How lazy can you get?

>>739058595

To be fair, 2 weeks is enough time to realize that fundamentalist anything is bullshit, without asking anybody anything. Just by sitting around and using basic common sense for 5 minutes is enough.

Now, leaving a faith usually takes longer, and OP did take longer to do that, but usually people who start on the extremes are much quicker to convert once the threads start unraveling. They are starting from a position of more obvious bullshit, and a position that is far more hostile to questioning than typical faiths, so they are already more likely to question as a person, more committed at the start, and more sensitive to things they find to be bullshit.

>>739047808
Is this a bot just writing babble?

>>739058827
it takes some mental gymnastics. took me a few secs to get it.

>>739058510
yeah just look at 9/11

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Darwin was a con artist, a sham.

>>739045221
Heki fino...which is hilarious if you read koine.

>>739059208
how is that relevant to this thread?

>>739048779
>Quantum
My sides

>>739059208
Proof please.

>>739045221
You don't need any religion to embrace the value within, i mean you can do good around you, be charitable etc.. You don't need religion for that.
Being without religion is for me the contrary of avoiding pain because you have to deal with all the thought of dying alone, being here on earth for no reasons.
You need to chill i don't know your age but even if religion was in the center of your life (you made a degree on it) it's not a waste of time, it's a lot of knowledge you gather about it and you still have the possibility to change your life and find something else you like.

It's a nice journey you've done i think.

>>739059312
some guy long time ago mentioned his religion teacher was atheist and taught darwinism. (>>739055802)

>>739059208
fuckin learn how to reply. it's not hard, you literally just click the numbers.

>>739045221
You're right to give up the notion that god is anthropomorphic and intervenes in our lives. The Universe has been seeking to know itself, and we are the result of its becoming self-conscious. So our job is to observe the Universe and experience its self-consciousness.

>>739058510
Society is much better off being controlled by something. Religion is one of those things that can control society. In this case, "better" = "controlled."

You make your own meaning, who cares if there is an "ultimate meaning" or not, you can pretty much do whatever you want, as long as you remember your actioncs have consequences, some affect you and some affect other people.

>>739045221

So you are having a midlife crisis? No big deal, your life should be full, i.e. you should have kids and a family, if you have lived your life as you claim. Focus on them and they should help get you through this rough patch.

>>739045221
If you have a hard time finding meaning without religion read friedrick nietczhe if thats how its spelled

>>739059778
we have goverment for that, religion is just mind control and even if it was suddenly abolished people wouldnt just go rape and pillage, well the retarded crazies might go, tho usually religion or goverment dont slow them down even a little bit.

>>739045221
Are you worried about a job, OP?

>>739045221
just dont be a dick?

>>739058599
>Second of all, I've seen no actual evidence for any gods existing and I've been looking for it.
There are three things to consider.
1. The existence of God, gods, or any such supernatural beings/phenomena depends on them existing, not on others being able to prove it.
2. One believing in God, gods, or supernatural beings/phenomena doesn't mean one can prove his/their existence.
3. Argumenting against a religion is less successful when you don't consider the teachings of that religion.

Take the Psalms: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Or take Paul: "For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made".
That doesn't mean that you have to be religious or that you have to become a christian. But is does mean that you not having "evidence" doesn't mean shit, because there IS evidence, but you're just not able to process it correctly.

>>>739058343 (You)
>Well yeah, but my point was that when you don't have to do specific things because of a belief in a god, you get to think through why avoiding certain behaviors can be beneficial.
>Its not "Do not kill, because god says so" anymore, it becomes "do not kill because you would not like others to kill you", which in my opinion is a better moral basing than "god said so".
On the other hand, neither moral philosophers nor philosophers in general have agreed on... anything, basically.
You may very well hold to that moral idea, your version of the Golden Rule, whatever. Others don't.
The same problem applies to religion and I think it is simply unsolvable: No one will ever come up with a set of morals everyone qua being a rational being will agree on.

>>739058827
>How lazy can you get?
Very lazy, trust me!

>>739060387
The thing is though, that the teachings I like from most religions can be taught without religion and the ones I don't like outweigh the good teachings in a cost benefit analysis.
On the subject of morals, we have a social contract called laws that we are supposed to follow if we want to be part of a society that benefits us on many levels.
Even if someone disagrees on why we don't want people to kill other people, they will still follow that rule to be part of a society that benefits them.

>>739059971
Government is reactive and extrinsic, though. Religion (and culture, philosophy, weltanschauung etc.) on the other hand forms your conscience, that inner voice which yells "Stop that, you retard!"

>>739045221
>Christian for 35 years
>Degree in New Testament Theology

>2 weeks of serious studying

After reading this post I've finally concluded that this thread is all a farce. kek/8 tho, made me reply.

Also, if for some reason this isn't a joke, then you're an idiot and either A) had no faith and just went through the motions, or B) seriously a fucking idiot. 35 years + a degree, and it took 2 weeks to dismantle it all? Actually feel bad for you.

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You studied under the wrong Christianity now come to the fullness.

>>739060911
There is a third option anon.
Op used 35 years studying his religion, while gathering points of contention from this intense study. Then he used 2 weeks examining those points and decided that his religion was a sham, because these points of contention were too egregious to deny.

>>739060718
Religion forms your conscience? Then how the fuck do you explain the fact that religious people are less moral and more likely to go to jail than non religious people?

>>739060911
>>739061068
from what all I've gathered from the thread, it seems like a and c

>>739045221
James 3:5

>>739045221
Congratulations on doubting religion.
The next time you meet a religious person. Ask them to prove the existance of god without refering to their holy book for evidence. Without the bible there is not a single trace of god.

And if you dig into the origin of christianity you'll find it's just a repackage religion of yesteryears.
Life just can't be random and cruel and kind there must be someone with a plan. It just hurts too much when life punches you in the gut and you can't think: oh big strong thing I pray too, Please fix this. It's not all just up to me to solve is it? That would make me feel so weak...

Enjoy not going to heaven. Enjoy the void.

>>739045221
Celebrate? You're fucking eternity is gone my dude there is nothing to celebrate all this time. Been a atheist/determinist for many years and it's all really sad shit. Honestly would much rather have a god.

>>739060681
>The thing is though, that the teachings I like from most religions can be taught without religion and the ones I don't like outweigh the good teachings in a cost benefit analysis.
It's not that one cannot come up with a set of ethical rules. We in the West have been doing that in a organized manner for what, 2500 yrs?

It's just that "you can be moral without religion" doesn't work because it doesn't work with philosophy, either. There is not one, there are many theories of and on ethics and morals and we're not agreeing on them, anyway.

So one can have one's personal set of rules which one finds exceptionally nice and dandy and out there in the world most people could care less about that, and rightfully so. For billions of people, billions of other people will remain the bad guys. There's no way to change that, not with religion, not with philosophy.

>On the subject of morals, we have a social contract called laws that we are supposed to follow if we want to be part of a society that benefits us on many levels.
>Even if someone disagrees on why we don't want people to kill other people, they will still follow that rule to be part of a society that benefits them.
I agree on that in the sense that rules being enforcable and and rules being accepted is sth. different from them being objectivly or intersubjectivly true.

>>739060387
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of evidence and burden of proof.
>"For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made".
Seeing the things around you is not necessarily proof that they were made by a creator. That's making a jump in logic that you don't justify. That's you failing to understand what evidence is, not atheists failing to process it. They have processed it, and deemed it not evidence.

>1. The existence of God, gods, or any such supernatural beings/phenomena depends on them existing, not on others being able to prove it.
Nice platitude but replace God, gods, or any such supernatural beings/phenomena with anything else and it'll still mean the same thing. This phrase doesn't strengthen your position. It only serves to make one question their positions on anything they take for granted.

>2. One believing in God, gods, or supernatural beings/phenomena doesn't mean one can prove his/their existence.
What do you think is more rational? Believing in something without evidence/the ability to prove it, or believing something that is backed up by demonstrable evidence?

>>739060984
Mormonism is an anti-christian cult and thus should be illegal.

>>739049892
>$50000 money check
40000 went into unicef boss' pockets and propaganda, the rest went on 6 hookers some dictator was banging the other night.

>>739061827
How people come to their morals is rather inconsequential though anon.
If I refrain from doing things I consider bad because I wouldn't want others to do it to me and you refrain from doing the same things because your religion says so, it still results in the same behavior. Which we have decided is moral behavior, based on ideas that have roots in our biology, our culture and yes some of which also comes from religion.
I'm just of the opinion that we created religion to nurture specific behaviors because we are a cooperative social species, that has survived on our brains instead of on brawn. Basically these rules started as a blueprint for maintaining a successful tribe, we've just widened who we consider part of our tribe through religious or ideological beliefs.

Hermetics

>>739061109
>Religion forms your conscience?
Religion among those other things I mentioned and things I didn't mention takes part in forming one's conscience, yes.
Who in the world would deny that, anyway?

>Then how the fuck do you explain the fact that religious people are less moral and more likely to go to jail than non religious people?
People with higher agency are less criminal and they tend to be more non-religious.

>>739045221
You make your point by yourself. If the whole existence is pointless, then all that matters is all you can reach within this dimension. Thus concentrate on possible things, even if they are unprobable.

And keep your morals. The world is in this state because of our ancestors, and western culture deserves being better because of all blood and sweat spilled over the laws and rights we have today. After all, even if you don't believe, your grandparents probably did, and they still helped at making your country a better place to live.

It's pretty much the same as before, you just don't need that fairytale about heaven and hell.

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>>739045221
The fun part here is that you can come to that conclusion and still not escape the fact that *you're going to have to choose how to live your life.* Christian or not, that part never changed. If you're asking for advice on how to choose differently now, my only advice is to be as deliberate as possible about it.

>>739056377
Film is called rafťáci. There is other with same actors snowborďáci. But its in czech

>>739045221
How's it feel to have a degree that's even more useless than a degree in women's studies?

>>739062812
>Who in the world would deny that, anyway?
propably someone who didnt grow up in a religious household.

>>739045221
there is no intrinsic meaning to life. you decide what gives you meaning personally and pursue it. life forms only want to reproduce but thats the same for all forms of life. we as humans get to derive more meaning from the journey than other life forms that simply exist.

figure out what makes you happy and work at achieving it

>>739063118
Hey man, in my country you get respect, money, neat car, milfs and some boipussy while having to drink wine at least once daily and playing guitar with hot chicks. Being priest is fucking dope.

>>739062812
>>739063209
I didn't grow up in a religious household. My parents aren't anti religion, they just consider it a personal belief and they didn't want to raise me with beliefs they couldn't prove.
Once I reached my teens I started looking into religions on my own, enabled by my parents who helped me lend books on the subject from the library.
I came to the conclusion that they pretty much espouse the same ideas, without backing those ideas up with fact and then they get in a pissing contest with each other.
I've rejected religion so far, because none of them have managed to convince me that a god or gods exist, or that we even need god/s to function as a species.

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>>739045221
"He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still:
and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still:
and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still:
and he that is holy, let him be made holy still"
-Revelation 22:11

>>739063631
But is he that is righteous and clean necessarily religious?
He could just be a good guy.

>>739045221
Life is not about having or finding meaning, it's about creating it.

God did not create us in his image, we created him in ours. You have an infinite number of possibilities and can use the world to your own desire. The responsibility it takes to pull your hands out your pockets and come up with something to do is what made us create gods and religions in the first place, so we can trade our responsibilities for dependencies that would force us to live the life we'd otherwise desire but wouldn't find the will to work for, but you don't need that.

>>739045221
Anyways if you are a fascist become a fundamentalistst, if you are a Wesleyean become a deliberate communist - good luck

>>739063779
Pretty much this.

>I'm gonna enjoy first circle of hell, they say they have warm rooms there.

>>739061885
That's circular reasoning, ain't it? There is no God, therefore I can trust my logic and my ability to see evidence, therefore I can conclude with logic and by looking at the evidence that God doesn't exist.

>>739045221
False flag: The thread

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>>739063779
"For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire"
- 2 Peter 2:21-22

>>739064289
shadman pls fuck off

>>739062372
We're adapting either to nature (life, the universe, whatever) or to the God (or gods. Or impersonal force.) who created nature (life, the universe, whatever).

>>739060387
1) sure, but there's also no valid reason to believe they exist unless there's some kind of support to it

>>739064289
So basically, if I've heard of Christianity, but decide it isn't for me, I'm automatically unrighteous and filthy?
How is that different from Islams "convert or die" doctrine?
It's basically saying "I'm better than you and you're going to hell for not agreeing with me".

>>739064048
You can't prove that God does or does not exist, so using logic is pointless. But that ain't even important, the point of religion isn't proving, but believing.

The idea of God dies with believers. Once noone believe in him, he effectively stops existing. Look what happened with all other "dead" religions. Belief in supernatural will always drop to marginal levels as long as people can reason with masses.

>>739045221
Yes

>>739047590
no u.

>>739045221

Now's your chance to cultivate new values of your own and find other things worth living for and pursuing for their own sake. Tough, but possible.

>>739045221
>of serious study
really its just belief. i mean philosophy isnt fact, its just words to influence you. i dont believe in god or the afterlife in a christian sense but that doesnt mean its any more believable than religion. as long as it doesnt affect others, you should be all for it. just dont be preachy, nobody likes that

>>739064426
So far I've only found evidence of us adapting to life, the universe and whatever.
Making up gods and religions was just one of those adaptations.
Personally I think me existing through chance is a far greater gift than if someone decided to make me.
In a godless universe, I'm incredibly lucky just to exist, while in one with a god I'm virtually a slave to some supernatural being who exalts in building little replicating machines and making rules for them.

>>739064516
Nah, it is to fight for your own cause. You don't always enjoy doing that, yet people do it every day and generally feel good about it.

>>739064048
It's not circular reasoning. Nowhere is being said that there is no god by the way, just that there is no evidence for god so there's no reason to believe there -is- a god. Not believing is the null position, until evidence comes along that proves there is one.
I'm not sure how you're making the logical connections for the rest of that sentence, but good science has one feature that believing in something that isn't proven does not: reproducibility of the outcome. You can trust evidence because in real life applications, it works. That's not circular reasoning.

>>739063209
In the same way that I growing up among non-East Asians haven't internalized Confucianism. That's not a surprise, is it?

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>>739064364
I am not that children rapist pedophile.

>>739064475
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me"
-John 14:6

>>739045221
the fact you're shaken by the idea of your faith being a "farce" would suggest to me that you're lying about your life. There's no way you carried on totally oblivious to any other way of thought and were shaken by a different ideal.

tl;dr grow up, nobody can give you any answers on this subject, just their opinion and it's up to you to set a value for that opinion.

>>739063581
>My parents aren't anti religion, they just consider it a personal belief and they didn't want to raise me with beliefs they couldn't prove.
So your parents could prove the moral rules they taught you to be true? I highly doubt that!

>>739045466
tell me please this is shopped

>>739045221
You had a life changing revelation that undid two decades of your life and the only thing have to say is TITTIES?

Sage

>>739064750
And Joseph Smith claimed to be a true prophet of god, but do you give him any credibility?
You're still making the claim of "If you don't believe what I believe, you're a bad person by default".

>>739045221
just become a libtard, they're all wandering around aimlessly too

>>739064436
True! The next question is what counts as "some kind of support".

>>739064851
They gave me reasons for why their morals were sound though.
At first it was as simple as "Do you like when people hit you? No? then don't hit other people". As I got older, we got deeper into why some types of behavior are better than others in their opinion.
There was no need for saying "God doesn't want this" because they explained to me what effect my actions could have on others.

>>739064493
>You can't prove that God does or does not exist, so using logic is pointless. But that ain't even important, the point of religion isn't proving, but believing.
Agreed. Religion is not science.

>The idea of God dies with believers. Once noone believe in him, he effectively stops existing. Look what happened with all other "dead" religions. Belief in supernatural will always drop to marginal levels as long as people can reason with masses.
Wouldn't be the first time truth is a minority opinion.

>>739045221
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

check

>>739045221
there is no point welcome to life anon

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>>739064916
Do you realize that I did not write the holy bible? do you?

Also:
Those words are from the same Jesus Christ

>>739045221
Brother, this is NOT the place to come seeking enlightenment, answer, or support. We have nothing kind or useful for you.

>>739065362
Pascal's wager is deeply flawed in that it only takes into consideration that the religion you pick is the right one, and fails to take into consideration all of the thousands of other religions, many of which have a core rule expressly forbidding the worship of false deities.

>>739064698
It's not so much about religion, but about the attitude towards it: Accepting religious beliefs as part of human evolution and society while being an atheist or not accepting them and preaching anti-theism? The latter often comes down to believing in a higher Truth (capital T) in the universe which has to be brought to the ignorant masses, lest they stay unenlightened. Of course, believing in that sort of truth is religion again.

>>739048324
Born alone
>literally pulled out of a human being at birth
>by another human being
>your dad is there
>nurses are there
>what of you have a twin?

Die alone
>if you die sick you will probably be in a hospital
>doctors there
>nurses there
>family there
>You could die in an accident with other people dying too
>car accident etc.

Oh. Ok.

>>739045221
>__Real Talk__

cut the nigger shit.

>>739065362
http://www.wikihow.com/Refute-Pascal%27s-Wager
>>739065479
I know you didn't, I'm just saying that you are using it as a stick to hit other people over the head with.
Many holy books have guys claiming to be the truth and the way, why is your pet belief the right one?

>>739064712
You cannot use Scientific Method 101 that way when it comes to the supernatural.

>>739065681
Well personally, I don't give a shit what people believe, as long as they act decently.
If and when I speak out against religion, it is when people are using it to be shitheads to others.

>>739065824
So you're saying we should throw rationality in the bin and believe anything about the "supernatural"?

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>>739065816
>Many holy books have guys claiming to be the truth and the way, why is your pet belief the right one?

But I already told you.

>>739065117
Your parents giving arguments would work if you had been able to argue against them. But you were too young for that when the basic foundations of your morality were laid.
Children do not accept parental moral reasoning not for being reasonable, but for being parental. You want your authority figures to like you, therefore you do what they want you to do and internalize that.

>>739065681
>The latter often comes down to believing in a higher Truth (capital T) in the universe which has to be brought to the ignorant masses, lest they stay unenlightened. Of course, believing in that sort of truth is religion again.

I think you misunderstand the position of almost any atheist/anti-theist. People like Richard Dawkins for example aren't preaching a "higher Truth" as you so mockingly put it. The only thing they do is refute the claims of people who are preaching unfounded claims. I don't know of a single reputable atheist/anti-theist who claims to have absolute knowledge. They all acknowledge the fact that they could be wrong and they all share the same notion that the burden of proof hasn't (yet) been met for claims like the paranormal/supernatural/god w/e and would advise anyone to not believe in the claim until it has been proven.

Believe me, in many ways it taught you more about the real living experience (as an spiritual experience) than all modernist people who believe nothing matters.

Enjoy being even more free but always remember, religion is bullshit, the spirit is real.

Peace.

>>739066070
That is circular logic anon.
You're claiming "Jesus is the son of god, because someone made a book that claims he said so".
Now explain to me why this book is more correct than other books claiming the same thing for other people and religions.
>>739066175
That is true and my parents didn't want to add the white noise of improvable beliefs to that cocktail.
They instilled morals in me, in order to prepare me for a successful adult life. Once I got old enough to question why these morals are good and I gained the ability to understand their reasoning, they engaged me in my questioning from a social perspective, through an agreed upon social contract in the society I grew up in.

>>739052281
You fucking idiot. That's not Mark Twain. That's Nietzsche. Learn your fucking philosophy before sneaking onto the family computer while your parents are still at work.

Religion is a presentation on who has a good imaginary friend. Atheism is maturity.

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>>739066612
>You're claiming "Jesus is the son of god, because someone made a book that claims he said so".
>a book that claims he said so

Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me.

>>739045221
Google Jordan Peterson. Thank me later.

>>739065941
>So you're saying we should throw rationality in the bin and believe anything about the "supernatural"?
I'd argue that you threw rational argumenation in the bin by writing this.

>>739067252
Oh cool, I'm the lord of darkness now?
I just thought I was some dude arguing against circular logic.
>This guy doesn't accept my blanket claim, better call him satan.

OP, what drew you to fundamentalism in the first place?

Personally, my "goal" is to make the world and my own life more pleasing - i.e. hedonism (in the traditional sense.) Reducing cruelty seems like one of the better ways of doing that.

>>739066390
I did not intend to describe "the position of almost any atheist". I just mentioned a certain sub-set of deeply religious anti-religionists.

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>>739067515
>Not knowing the meaning of "Satan" in this context
>mfw

>>739067630
You're still acting on the premise that your baseless claims are somehow true, without providing any reasoning other than "believe what I believe or you're a bad person".
If your book is correct, prove it.

>>739066612
Basic moral premises were already laid and, so to speak, neurologically imprinted. Changing them is quite difficult. This applies to society as a whole, too. From this perspective, there is no "agreeing to contract", just an "accepting what is".

>>739045617
Live for the people around you, live because of the people who lift you up whenever you're down, live for everything on this earth you've yet to experience, not for some intangible, imaginary force who's existence is impossible to confirm

>>739066612
unprovable was the word I meant to use.
>>739067931
Well from the standpoint of accepting what is, they explained to me why the accepted certain things and rejected others.
We live in a society where raping someone is considered bad, yet it still happens. So my parents explained to me why it would be a bad thing to do, in spite of it being something that happens and accepting that fact.

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>>739067836
>If your book is correct, prove it.

We are alive and having this talk, that's is not enough proof for you?

"In default of any other proof, the thumb would convince me of the existence of a God"
-Isaac Newton

>>739045221
Yo OP, listen to Alan Watts on YouTube. Literally any of his lectures will answer some of your questions, and you can find inner peace through what he teaches.
>The point of life is, for every individual, that individual's perceived purpose. This is relative to you: the point of your life is whatever you want it to be. It is your solemn duty to learn how you would like to spend your life.
>God, as I see God, is the Dao, which is the universe as it is. What exists is God, moving as it does from and to. The present is the only time that exists, so don't ignore what you think reality is in favor of what it could be.

"Rapig someone is bad" is a variation of "hurting someone is bad", which you learned at an early age, plus your inborn understanding a your own personal bodily integrity, abstracting it to encompass other persons.
You can of course rationalize that. But that's just ethics, or philosophy of law, not the psychological reason for you not raping others.

Humans are disgusting, impulse-driven beasts. Rationality is a surface facade. :-)

>>739068350
But we're here because the big bang happened and because things tend to move towards complexity in our universe. The only truly closed natural system we know of is our universe itself. Everything else has sources of energy and matter to become more complex and evolve from.
We're here because our way of surviving worked, just like we have thumbs because some ancestor of ours mutated and happened to survive long enough to pass on that trait, which turned out to be beneficial for us.
>>739068524
Explain the notion of a conscience then, that is basically a bodily function that we grew to know when doing something to another person would be considered bad or good.

>>739045221
>So what's the point of anything? What's the point of life?
There is no answer. Anybody who says that he does have one is lying. The only thing you can do is to put in work into making your life less miserable than it is now and put in work into things that have value to you personally. Nobody but you knows what to do with your life. You should sort out your life starting with little things. You likely have things you can work on in life: simply being a more fit, healthy individual, sorting out your situation with work and/or studying, clean your room, that may be a meme, but its good advise. Thats the only answer there is, put work into what you value.

>>739068825
I don't see the problem here. Do you think your explanation of conscience conflicts with what I wrote?

>>739045221
> this.
Nice bait, atheists, probably the best I've seen so far

>>739045221
Bertrand Russel: A history of western philosophy. After reading, start reading modern philosophy and draw your own conclusions.

Or, you know, do a ton of drugs to make the insanity that is 'sapient life comprehending its own demise' bearable.

>>739069501
Not really, it was more of a "as bad as people can be in their natural state, there are also good in that natural state".
It depends on choice and choice is something we can discuss and reason our way through, in spite of being disgusting impulse driven beasts.
If our environment allows for it, we naturally treat each other with respect, from the same instincts that enable us to kill another person if our environment doesn't allow for what we consider moral behavior.

>>739069905
there is also good*

>>739045221
Seeking purpose in life itself is futile. We are only a bridge between primitive humans and the Superman. Live not for the afterlife or for strangers, only for yourself. Remember that there will be a man after you and it's only your duty to ensure progress and prevent regression.

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if you want, i could tell you the truth of Q's Holodeck.

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>>739045221
You are making a huge mistake.
By all means give up on organized religion, but continue to study the Bible and find the truth for yourself. No Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans ever they were the beginning of the HEBREW people. No Eating apples was not the first sin. Look at the punishment it fits the ACTUAL crime.

There will be no rapture it is a lie a word that is used not at all in the Bible. Armageddon will one day happen but no one is going to be evacuated in advance of it.

So by all means ignore the liars in the funny hats who tell you Ham became black when Noah (A man) cursed him (Nonsense)! Black Africans existed from the 5th "day" of creation on and preceded the Hebrew race on to this planet.

Finally feel free to give up on men and their foolish teachings and traditions that make void Gods word (Which is what God says in the Bible about all religion) Give up on men but don't give up on God.

He kept his promises and hopefully one day will be kind enough to explain why he has pulled this cruel joke called "life" on all of us?

>>739070349
See what I get from this post is "everything we know about god was made up by man, but he's still real though, because the men who made the genesis story were not lying as opposed to all men who came after them".
This is not meant to be an attack on you though, just how I understand your words.

>>739045221
>>739045221
>What's the point of life?
Pretty simple. It's the pursuit of happiness. Do what you can to be happy as long as it doesn't harm others or interfere with their happiness.

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>>739045525
well said anon

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>>739070760
God once explained himself as if to a child.
The explanation was not detailed it was given in simplicity. Mankind has since striven to make it a lie, either intentionally and knowingly by some (Revelations 2:9) or unintentionally by others. Either way I recommend the observation of the Golden Rule. While ignoring the lies that come from behind a pulpit.

Too many Churches claim to have the truth and would be glad to eventually share it if you pay them enough. I struggle to follow Christs teachings and to share the truth anonymously and free of charge. Yes the Bible contains errors, but one can still study that book and find the truth with in it.

>>739070909
No it is to be born, to live and hopefully learn humility, to learn to resist harming others and eventually to die thus learning that we should not so willingly take away from others this gift called life either now or in our next existence.

>>739071310
But how do you know he did that?
If you base that claim on a book, which you in the same breath claim to be full of falsities, why should I rely on that book.
That is like putting people in a kitchen where half of the ingredients are poisonous, nothing is labeled and saying "go ahead, make some food, experiment with what you've got".

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>>739071630
It is what we have. (The Bible)

Even in Mose's time some were trying to pervert the word of God (Pentateuch and Torah) Moses was forced to write it all down in the Massorah's to try and fix its meaning for us in the future. So some truth has made its way through to us.

Bottom line?

War happened in Heaven itself.
Lucifer deceived a third of Heaven.
Another third would not choose a side.
The last third while loyal to God? Arrogantly demanded the deaths of the other 2.

So God made the Earth void erased all he had made and seeded mankind all about this place so that ALL of us would experience life and death and learn empathy for those that were living. He promised he too would do this teat called life and even revealed which tribe he would be born into. All that is the OT.. The NT is when he fulfilled all that. And revealed his plan for the big lie that would be foisted on those who remain here during Armageddon. This lie to be played on that third that were loyal but arrogant will prove to them that the devil can fool anyone and Gods judgment of him in particular is just so we should all stop fighting about it and let it play out to its conclusion.

Nope you don't need to sit your butt in a pew and pay tithes to men in funny hats.

You just need to treat others the way you would want to be treated and await our next life where the answers will finally be revealed.

I am not tryiong to make a set of rules or to make it more complex.

I don't teach in parable I am very plain in teaching all this.

I hope it will spark your interest and you will seek until you find the truth where ever you may find it.

May peace be with you.

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>>739048942
>left side pic

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Jesus challenged their presumption and their
power in His day and He seriously interfered with
their graft when He drove the money changers- out
of the temple in Jerusalem. That act summed up
His entire career He was an indignant, earnest
reformer. The Sanhedrin had reached the lowest
depth of corruption. The murder of Jesus ended
its criminal reign for a time. The Jews as a
mass did not understand what was happening;
they had been misled by the Sanhedrin and the
rabbis. The Sanhedrin consisted of seventy men

who ruled civil affairs. They had previously ruled
criminal affairs which power was taken from them
by the Roman government. There was also an-
other Sanhedrin consisting of twenty men, who
ruled religious affairs.- Jesus fought both of them.
Why did the Sanhedrin frame Jesus? Because
he advocated the law of God and Moses, the law
of limitation, which Moses wrote in the old testa-
ment (Leviticus chapter 25). Jesus wanted excessive
private fortunes limited by law in order to save
civilization from collapse.

Why did the Sanhedrin frame Jesus? Because
he advocated the law of God and Moses, the law
of limitation, which Moses wrote in the old testa-
ment (Leviticus chapter 25). Jesus wanted excessive
private fortunes limited by law in order to save
civilization from collapse.

>>739047033
The MAJORITY I know are self righteous twats.

>>739072367
Seems to me a non-traditional sectarian teaching, i.e. man-made.

>>739049011
It's true. I was a Pepe in my previous life.

>>739045953
word!

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>>739072540
Nice labels. Puts it all in a neat package so you can then do what? Ignore it? Yeah I don't have a clue what sectarian means I will have to go google it. (and I will) But until then perhaps consider it regardless of what labels you may want to apply and see if you can find anything of use with in it.

>>739072367
Again, this assumes that the book has enough validity to be considered the word of god.
It reads more like a genealogy text with interspersed ideas of how people thought the universe came to be at that time to me.
There are even older creation myths that deviates from the one in the bible to consider.
So I'm still of the position that if some of the information in the bible is false, we cannot know which parts aren't false and thus can't use it as a basis of proof for how the universe came to be.
It is an interesting piece of cultural history to me, with some moral teachings that I find useful, but I can't see it as a proof of god in any sense of the word, other than a proof that people have believed it.

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Become Schrodingerian:
https://github.com/Pella86/Schrodinger-religion

A religion you put whatever you want in it.

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>>739072765
>sectarian
Sectarianism is a form of bigotry, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching relations of inferiority and superiority to differences between subdivisions within a group

Hmm well if YOU think I consider myself your better, I am sorry.

I am not sharing this as if I were perfect I am far from it. I share this with all as I consider all to be my brothers. We are all the creation of God wandering about this place in confusion.

I do not tell you these thing to make myself feel better or superior. I do it out of a sense of caring a desire to wake folks up from a deep slumber of obliviousness. We know what it feels like to be treated unfairly. But so often we ignore our own actions and how they make others feel.

It is sad that a little choice like changing lanes with out signalling can be a serious comment about our own willingness to care for others.

>>739072852
>It reads more like a genealogy text

Considering the amount of debate about why Matthew and Luke's genealogies differ?

That would be one of the last lables I would apply to the book.

I would call it a child's primer on history, prophecy, and faith. One that an evil school board added to but failed to pervert entirely.

But they are still hard at work on the attempt.

All the creation myths contain some truth.
I often point to the Epic of Gilgamesh as the real Noah's ark story. We have our chronological history so messed up it is sad.

Sumerian, Chaldean? Which came first?

Many make claims and I doubt all of them..

But again I am not trying to get you to support a particular church.

If anything there are 2 books I would love for everyone to read and to share. Bullingers Companion Bible (KJV) and Strong's concordance (A proper dictionary of biblical words and their meanings).

It allows one to properly understand the Bible and to realize that many of the traditions of modern Churches are simply wrong.

>>739073717
This is the "school board" I was referring to here >>739073647
.

>>739045221
So are you an atheist or did you just realize Christianity (as it exists and is practiced today ) is crap, as are most religions.

Because if you think the religious texts of one particular religion being ridiculous is some how a logical precursor to god being made up, then you have much to learn.

>>739072765
We all talk in "labels".

>>739073647
See I take your skepticism a bit further, you question the motives of the school that you claim tried to pervert the work of god.
I question the motives of those who claimed there was a god in the first place, why would they claim this and codify their claims in a book or oral tradition?
The bible is nothing more than a historical book on bronze age life for me and a highly limited one at that, since later people decided to edit it for their own gains.
The questionable source of the bible itself, is enough for me to decide on not believing in it.

>>739073647
>Hmm well if YOU think I consider myself your better, I am sorry.
You really think that's what I meant?

>>739045530
I want to ask if being beta cuck is bad then what was wrong with islam who were tought to always be alpha allahhu

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>>739074365
Well the definition of sectarian starts with bigotry.

It is the word you chose to describe my posts with.

What am I supposed to think?

I am limited in understanding you, through your words, much the same as you are limited, by mine.

So I am willing to ask.

Did I misunderstand you?
What did you mean when you said my posts were "non traditional" (which I agree with) "sectarian"? Which is not a word I have, or would use to describe myself..

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Man these bait threads are getting really intricate

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>>739045221
Κάλιο αργά παρά ποτέ.

Μαλάkα.

>>739061885
>I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of evidence and burden of proof.

So do you and most people.

Case and point:
>What do you think is more rational? Believing in something without evidence/the ability to prove it, or believing something that is backed up by demonstrable evidence?

Lack of evidence for the existence of something doesn't mean it does not exist. It just means you don't have the evidence to definitively prove it does exist.

That's it.

Moreover when talking about God this all goes out the window anyway. By definition there is no way to prove god exists. Nor any way to prove god does not exist. At least not for us.

On a whim god could literally delete reason and logic, the laws of the universe which science is based, and the universe itself.

Most people like you are too wrapped up in the idea of god being some ridiculous floating bearded man in the sky and think it's as simple as going to space and saying "well I see no god here, see told you God wasn't real!".

>>739074562
Well you arent a arab, so you are fucked and not one of them. you can only submit and be there bitch. if you are lucky and they dont kill you

>>739074807
But if we can't prove or disprove that gods exist, how can you claim he has the power to do these things?
Any claim you make of his powers aren't provable, so why should people believe them?

>>739045221
interesting sunburn pattern she has

>>739045525
>Enough of these existential questions
nope my brain keeps formulating them

>>739045617
> Anything deeper than that?
I think we should start making our religion, a self made religion that fits our purpose to be happy in life. Only constraint are respecting societal rules where you live in, or try to invent new one that are possibily adaptable to your society.

>>739045628
>Go tell other devout religious people of how you've seen the
This is worse then being a Geova witness

>>739045976
>When I die I'll rot into the ground
What will happen to your consciousness? can you exist without it?

>>739046398
step 1 and 3, 2 is not necessary

>>739074723
>Well the definition of sectarian starts with bigotry.
I used the word as an derivative from "sect" and in the sense of "denominational". I wasn't aware of that other meaning. (My translation program isn't, either.)

>What did you mean when you said my posts were "non traditional" (which I agree with)
I meant exactly that: Non-traditional, i.e. not belonging to a historically established christian tradition.
That means that you're probably some guy who thinks he discovered "the true meaning" of Scripture, the faith, or sth. like that.
I tend to be cautious with such ideas.

>>739045221
Turn to Stoicism, Christianity's first cousin.

>>739045221
Just go on about your life as you normally would. Now you have a free Sunday. Just because you dropped practicing a religion doesn't mean you can't take from it the good teachings it provides and apply it to everyday life. Your actions have consequences that effect you and others here and now, and not so much that you're going to hell or heaven because of your actions. So do shit that makes and others around you happy, keep yourself within due bounds, and don't take no shit. Your really not changing much about your life op

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>>739075513
Well there is A Church that teaches the same stuff I do. I am not the first to discover it.

The number of folks who believe what I believe is VERY SMALL.

I don't blame you at all for your doubts.

But in the time called the "end of days" being in the "majority" would be a huge mistake.

I actually encourage faith over what is called religion. As I said - I promote the golden rule.

That is all.

>>739075012
>claim he has the power to do these things?

Because it's implied in the nature of existence of being god. Like by definition this is what the term god implies

>Any claim you make of his powers aren't provable, so why should people believe them?

Good see this is the fundamental understanding we need to address. The question isn't whether god is real or not in an objective reality based sense but whether or not you have a way to convince others that it god is real.

Whether something actually exists or not is different from whether you can convince people to believe that it exists or not.

It's a subtle difference but important.

As to how you would do it, the answer is that we don't know. At least not yet.

Even if you were to die now and walk through the golden gates to saint Peter sitting at a desk reading a scroll of your life's deeds and then you were admitted into heaven and god came down from a light above you, you could always still question and conceive of the idea that maybe this is not god, just a being that is significantly more than you are such that for all intents and purposes it is god.

But maybe there is more? Something above them?

Existence is strange, chaotic, and complex. Don't get upset if simple 2+2=4 level logic can't explain everything.

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>>739045221
>But now all of that is meaningless... So what's the point of anything? What's the point of life?
There never was a point to begin with, in religion as well if you think about it.

This is what we do; we make up a point in life and usually throw our lives at it to make it the best we can. If we are confronted that our point of life in one way or another is unrealistic or unreachable we adjust.

Make up your own reason of living, it could be a simple as to start a family and rais them to the best of your ability. Or to search and explore things; could be science, could be traveling, could be having a hobby for all i care.

Ultimately there is no goal, no reason to live, no deeper truth. But should that stop you from living your life to the fullest? I think not.

Also i dont have tits so here is some random Russian dude i saved on /b/ quite a while ago.

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>>739045221
Not even good bait

>>739048364
Hear this man. That's a hard truth to digest.

>>739045221
the point of life is a philosophical question that people have tried to answer since the dawn of time. I personally believe that the point of life is to take what is understood or learned with a grain of salt and do what benefits you and people closest to you. Survival, moderation, and being the best you can be to yourself and others. Most importantly, try enjoy it. That to me is the meaning of life.

>>739076190
If it is implied in the nature of god that he can do all of these things to our universe, wouldn't there be indications of it?
I mean even the humblest of painters sign their work somehow.
I might complain about us not having sufficient skills or tools to explain the universe around us, but I would never complain about an answer the might seem illogical to me if it can be proven to be true.
Which basically informs my standpoint, I don't see any reason in believing or worshipping a god that can't be proven or disproven. If he/she/it by nature is an entity we meet after death, I will reserve my judgment until I die and experience it for myself.

>>739077706
that might seem*

>>739045221
Dunno... go back to school, learn to draw, get a real job, learn Bass?

>>739077776
That's gotta sting anon.

>>739078382
Why would it sting?
I corrected my own typo.
Or is this about me being one off from consecutive identical digits?

>>739045221
You're purpose from an anon outsider perspective would be to use your unique education to either help people with crisis' of faith yourself or use it elsewhere you don't need to throw it all out just go out and expierence life see how it lines up with biblical teachings maybe one day write a book of your own giving your detailed perspective on life before and after being under the veil of a faith, the baby cries when it is born as it doesn't know any better, you are crying now because you can't see the splendour that's now possible for you

>>739078479
This is about the digits.

>>739077706
>wouldn't there be indications of it?

Only if God chose to do leave indications.
And we would still have to see them for what they are. Which gets back to the whole "prove it" aspect.

As an aside I think part of the problem is people tend look at everything from the bias of trying to prove god does not exist. If I show you something thats is supposed to prove god you will immediately start trying to figure out way that this will be flawed or actually proves god does not exist. You will jump through mental hoops if the end result is that you can re-affirm your believe that God is bullshit.

You are scared of the reality where God exists. Probably because of years of threats of religious damnation and hellfire.

You don't have to believe. That's fine. Just realize that you have just as much basis to to claim definitively and absolutely that God does not exist as someone does to claim there is a teacup orbiting Pluto.

Which is to say very little. It's basically a 50/50 shot. But trying to use logic and scientific law to debate the ecistence of the entity that created those things is in itself logically fallacious. Like trying to define a word using that word.

I tend to believe in the existence of a god only as a result of some interesting experiences (as you said you reserve judgement until you experience it yourself), these experiences have 2 implications either God exists or there is some crazy other dimensional world filled with weird ethereal creatures that exist by some law of physics we have yet to discover..... Which at that point fuck it god might exist too.

Anyway just think about it.

>>739045939
What was your reasoning, just curious

>>739063117
No. It's from a Brazilian YT channel. I don't know which. There's some good stuff made by Brazilians in the interwebs, if you understand Portuguese.

>>739061925

How can you be so wrong

good goy

>>739076108
>Well there is A Church that teaches the same stuff I do. I am not the first to discover it.
>The number of folks who believe what I believe is VERY SMALL.
Does that church see any historical group/church as a precursor?

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Amen

>>739079023
I'm not really afraid of a world where a god exists, I live by the rule that I am free to do what I want, to the point that it doesn't negatively affect other people.
I would never claim with 100% certainty that there is no god, I'm more of the position that I'm going to live my life like there isn't one, because I don't see myself being affected by a god or affecting a god in any way.
I just try to be the best version of me I can be and hope that if there is a god, he will judge me on the merit of my actions and not the contents of my beliefs.

>>739048320
Try umbanda. May the axé be with you.

>>739045221
Just live your life as you would when you were a Christian but the only difference would be you don't worship a higher power any more. Just don't become a "Reddit Atheist" ya know, those guys who are atheists but will go out of their way to have religious arguments and tell others they're wrong for having their beliefs. As long as you're not an asshole about it everyone (yes, even your family) will come to respect your beliefs as long as you respect theirs. I'm half Irish and half italian, ironically both sides of my family are VERY devoted Catholics but even they came to respect my beliefs it's all about time and having respect for each other. I wish you good luck on your journey OP

>>739079287
I'm not, that's the thing. Mormonism was made up in the 19th century. It has no legitimate precursors in traditional Christianity.

>>739051490
Dude, the scriptures are lies. God is some other thing. I pray that you meet yours.

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>>739079417
As I said before they do not believe Adam and Eve were the first humans only the first Hebrews and that other races proceeded them.

Religiously? They see themselves as Christian in the tradition of the Hebrew people.

That is we are all "adopted" in to the Hebrew race by our faith in Christ and his teaching.

Note I do not use Hebrew and Jewish interchangeably. While many Jews are Hebrew. Not all Hebrew people are Jews.

Most Hebrew people are not aware they are Hebrew. And many who claim to be Jews are liars.. (Revelation 2:8 or 3:9)

I consider myself to be a member of the Church of Philidelphi. I follow only the teachings of Christ, not the Pope or Paul.

Google: Shepherds Chapel Gravette Arkansas

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>>739080151

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>>739080056
I have only recently begun to read the book of Mormon. But they claim it is the continuation of the teachings of Christ and have quite a bit far more correct then the catholic church does.

So I will continue to read and with hold any judgment as to their truthfulness or accuracy.

>>739047671
/thread

>>739045221

The moment I saw the pic I went "refugees welcooooommmeeee"

>>739051490
HE's your king and you owe him your allegiance. HE doesn't owe you anything. Not even an explanation.

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>>739080256
OK so you post a meme image probably do not even understand what is going on. A group of evil folks have infitrated the Jewish religion and have with held all the information that they knew from the rest of mankind.

These evil one's infiltrate nearly every group and government. They pervert the truth and control the money.

Many claim to be jews but are liars.

Are you beginning to wake up yet?

>>739072705
kek

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>>739080502
That group is still jewish you dipshit

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>>739051490
I get you.

What Christ failed to explain was that we would receive both he HOLY and the UNHOLY spirit.

Both God and the Devil whisper to us in our minds and sound no different to us.

We are Id, Ego, and Super Ego, all of us.

We can all consult with both Good and Evil.

Yeah there is really far too much that we were never told and should have been.

Thank goodness this lesson called life is not permanent or particularly affecting of our souls eternal state.

>>739045221
Because it makes so much sense that the universe poofed into existence then exploded for no reason. I won't even go into the idiocy that scientists say is the origin of life.

>>739080710
Nope they were not born of the blood line of Jacob or Israel nor his son Judah. They are of the bloodline of Cain. They are not jews they lie and instead are of the synagogue of Satan.

Hitler killed off most of the true jews we are left instead with these liars.

File: 711130-112808_86953_homer_simpson_super.jpg (37KB, 539x640px) Image search: [Google]

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>>739080745
So its very much like > Pic related.

File: Jew myth.jpg (122KB, 799x1245px) Image search: [Google]

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>>739081026
>Hitler killed off most of the true jews
here is were you are wrong. hitler gave jews the option to leave in 1933, most of them left, the remainder were put in to concentration camps because hitler didnt knew who the zionts satanist were. only in the east they murdered all the jews. and they are better of because of it.

Besides, ww2 was a set up by the jews, jews themselfs were snitched out and they culled the weak strengtening the genetics of the jews.

>>739080803
It didn't "explode for no reason" kek
> Understanding how science works

>>739080151
>Google: Shepherds Chapel Gravette Arkansas
I looked at their statement of faith. At least it seems to be a christian church.

>>739052281
>Mark Twain
Bait?

>>739080256
For over a thousand years most Christians believed that the Church was the New Israel. The idea that the Jews are still the Chosen People wasn't mainstream until recently. And the idea that the zionist entity in the Levant was to be supported out of religious reasons is even more recent.

>>739080337
One can argue about Apocrypha all day long and I'm willing to listen, but the idea that there could be a whole new book completing Holy Scripture was revealed just a few generations ago is imho blasphemous.

>>739059142
>secs
kek

>>739081229
The set up was by the descendants of Cain who only claimed to be Jews. The Cainites have always tried to destroy the Hebrew people and to claim to be the jews.

I think that like myself you fail to understand what is the same here and the distinction.

Christ was promised to be born of the line of Judah and Levi and to be the HEBREW Messiah. The Jewish thing is a deception foisted on all of mankind. Christ has been and gone. The Chosen people were to be the line he was born of and after that mattered not at all. Those who claim today that they are Jews and are thus important reveal that they are liars who - reject Messiah - and do the very will of evil.

TLDR They are NOT Jews and it insults the line of Judah to allow them to claim such.

>>739046300
I went through the same thing and when it happened to me I just went crazy with drugs and women. When I got married years later I ended up going back to my old church. I don't regret partying it up for that time though.