>>738960824 while I disagree with the transgender BS, the only thing changing a male from a female is the presence of testosterone at high enough levels. Some men have much less and feel feminine. Look up androgen insensitivity. Those are XY males that make enough testosterone, but their body doesn't respond to it or use it, so they look like masculine females and they have their junk semi-developed up inside their vag.
theres science for ya. And God doesn't exist. Atleast the one that told people to kill their own sons to test them, or the one that plauged Job for no reason bc he was baited by the devil
>>738960824 It's almost like liberal and conservative are arbitrary distinctions and that there are different people that think different things and only care about their own single agenda regardless of how they identify.
>>738961609 It literally is. You just pretend otherwise because it's convenient.
>distinct DNA >heartbeat >physically separated from mother's systems >depending on age, has masturbatory urges (just like you!), responds to stimuli (esp. auditory, proving it can hear and respond to sound) >more
>>738961621 I think a lot of it is that people just have their own agenda, and then the people listening to that agenda decide whether or not they are liberal or conservative. Then when they hear opinions from another person that they identify the way way, they call it hypocrisy when they conflict because they don't acknowledge that they aren't dealing with a single entity.
>>738961758 dont try to give scientific points that make you look dumb to people who actually know what you are taking about. Distinct DNA? really? So does each and every one of those jiz stains on your pillow. Physically separated from mothers systems? So the baby is eating in the womb on its own?
>>738961362 What point are you trying to make exactly? I'm not sure how exactly pic is related, not how linking an entire wiki article is meaningful.
Tran-sexuality is a mental illness, as the 41% suicide rate supports. *the figure that was given after a recent survey of 6000 transgender people **this figure is even higher if you can include the people who have actually succeeded.
>>738960824 >I don't think being homosexual is a natural behavior in humans, sure we evolved past the need to use sex as a reproductive tool only, but you can't justify your sexual needs and preferences with evolution. MUH GAY ANIMALS, IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN NATURE YOU TWAT, HALF OF THE WORLD IS GAY BECAUSE OF THEIR NATURE, MOST OF THEM ARE IN DENIAL, YOU CAN'T EVOLVE BEYOND BIOLOGY!
>I eat meat because it's natural for animals to eat each other in some points of the food chain, A hungry Lion would eat you even if you're smart and have feelings. NU-UH WE ARE NOT AIMASL, WE HAVE EVOLVED AND WE KNOW EATING MEAST IS THE MURDER OF INOCENT AND BEAUTIFUL BEINGS WITH RIGHTS AS YOU AND ME, A TRUE HUMANITARIAN WONT DO THAT.
>Religion and spiritual beliefs are a natural behavior, for eons people of all races and cultures have believed in some form of higher planes and powers, it's only natural for humans to have that kind of curiosity, even if science disproves it by nature people would still hold it close in some form. B-SHIIIIT WE HAVE EVOLVED PAST THE NEED OF THAT KIND OF PORESIVE FAIRY TALES, RELIGIONS DONT TEACH VALUES THAY ONLY BREED HATREEED
>>738962043 >a human life And? >The biggest terrorist attack in the United States was roe vs Wade. Learn what terrorism means. >>738962055 If they're never attached, then what is even the issue? Just move them.
>>738962310 Neither are murder, one is capital punishment and the other is abortion.
See, what you're doing is taking things that you don't agree with and using really strong sounding language to make it seem like something evil so that you can manipulate people into agreeing with you. Bad, bad, obvious, transparent rhetoric. Terrible.
>>738961758 >distinct DNA >heartbeat >physically separated from mother's systems >depending on age, has masturbatory urges (just like you!), responds to stimuli (esp. auditory, proving it can hear and respond to sound) Cows, chickens, sheep, pigs... this list describes all of these animals who have far more sentient thought than a fetus. Are you a vegan?
Abortion wasn't even an issue until some far right groups realized that it was a great lightning rod to attract dumbfuck fundamentalist christians. The same way they've used immigration as of late. And the same way the left groups use gay rights and blm Right is better at it though, and they have more dipshits to choose from.
>>738962621 Mocking retarded opinions is retarded? I thought that was one of the most worthwhile parts of social interaction. How else to you prevent retarded opinions from spreading if not by alerting the people that hold to the fact that they're retarded?
>>738962557 >you delivered kids or some shit? I cut my daughters umbilical cord myself Even if you're right (You're not) about a baby being 'physically attached to the mother (it is), It doesn't matter. The baby ability to live is reliant upon the mothers body. If the mother dies or rejects the pregnancy, the baby dies. The mother has a right to choose weather or not to have another 'person' use her body.
>>738960824 Other liberals: the universe is one, man. We're all god >said the liberal on a drug that literally shuts down the sense of self in the brain, so the brain desperately tries to make sense of whats happening to it by just reporting you must be everything
On the note of drugs
Conservative: all drugs are totally bad period, and anyone who ever touches any mind altering substance is a degenerate >cracks a coors.
>>738961758 Ok... The thing that really makes us humans is our ability to be aware of ourselves in a on a whole different level compared to other species. Even the estimated intelligence of two year babies is somewhere among dogs, and as far as im concerned dogs aren't really considered persons. Now I am not telling that I am in favor of classifying and putting babies in the same bracket as animals. Still, a unborn fetus is not even close to being something you can call a person. The fact that it maybe sometimes in the distant future might become something shouldn't matter, since at this point there isn't anything making it special, other that it being a piece of living tissue inside a woman.
>>738962699 You want to talk about rights (If they exist and who grants them) ? But more over, You don't believe a person has a 'right' to their own body? You think 'another' person or persons have more right to it then the person themselves? You must if you want the right to end my life over my right to live.
>>738962401 Killing someone unlawfully is murder. Capital punishment is not cruel or unusual if we have been doing it for centuries. It's supposed to stop crime. in certain cases I believe in a abortion. If the woman is in danger. understand. In cases of rape understandable, I don't believe in it for accidentally pregnancy, you should have used birth control
>>738960824 Those 2 statements are flawed. The first has nothing whatsoever to do with liberals. The second fails because science has shown that a transgendered person's brain is structurally like the brain of the gender they feel that they are.
Stop thinking in black and white. Nobody here should object to killing a couple hundred cells in a woman's uterus. Religion has deluded people into thinking an embryo is a baby as soon as it forms when that idea is ridiculous. The gray area comes into play around 18-22 weeks which is where the debate should take place. It should not take place the moment of conception or the moment of child birth.
>>738963223 >1 and 2 year old babies usually can't survive without the mother Maybe if they where alone on a desert planet, but we are not. All the baby requires is food in the way of 'any' mothers milk, or formula. In fact premature baby's are given a strict formula diet Why is it exactly you think this is not the case? So long as the baby finds a wet nurse (Happens with animals in the wild) - The biological mother is not required.
>>738963347 So because they made the mistake of taking the pill, or breaking a condom, you believe they should just kill a fetus? Sure accidents happen but you live with the choices you make. No need to kill potential life because of it. You know what's at risk when having sex.
>>738963747 I think that a young woman who fucked one dude and forgot to use birth control shouldn't have to give up 9 months of her life for an eventual child she is going to give away. Now if she had it for 7 months and then decided to abort it I would be more willing to have a debate on that, but in the first couple months when it really is just a clump of undifferentiated stem cells there's really no good argument not to abort that isn't rooted in semantics or superstition.
We don't hire experts anymore. It used to be that if you were a television personality you'd also have to have been a governor at some point before we made you president. Now you don't even need to have been president of SAG. No political experience? Perfect. You're hired. No baggage. Same goes for other offices. You don't have to work your way up anymore. Not in politics. Truth also no longer matters. At all. This is the age of alternative facts. So no, we can't just let "the experts" handle it. There aren't any allowed in politics.
>>738962479 But there is no 'saving' involved here. The word saving implies that there is something of worth at stake, which isn't there. We have way too many babies around already, we don't need any more.
Friendly reminder that the Soviet Union outlawed abortion again after the industrialization permitted a standard of living and care for all children to a degree that invalidated reasons for abortion. It provided it only for urgent cases and beforehand only to have better health care for women seeking an abortion during desperate times of the early days of revolution. Stalin did nothing wrong.
>>738963809 >So because they made the mistake of taking the pill, or breaking a condom, you believe they should just kill a fetus? I believe that people should have the right to their own body. Forcing a woman to carry to term as a consequence to having sex is wrong, and that sort of logic can be used to justify a lot of things.
Do liberals not realise even if theyre right about abortion and the fetus being totally non conscious and non qualifying as human, youre literally trying to change the minds of people who are anti baby murder, and think that a fetus is a human baby?
Nothing you can say is going to make anyone someone say "oh ok. Murder the toddler i get it now."
Thats a difficult belief to unseat, and its NOT because theyre stupid or evil. They just dont like baby murder.
Most Republicans I know are fine with abortion. They just don't want to pay for it.
I would go further than republicans or democrats and say that men deserve a right to abortion as well as women. "My body my choice" should be "My genetic material my choice". Consent to have sex is not consent to procreate, especially since it's relatively easy for the woman to get pregnant anyway and then the man has absolutely no recourse at all and the woman has 100% of the decision power for something which should require a unanimous decision. Having a baby should require consent from both the woman and the man
>>738963966 I have my own view. I think abortion should be the parents choice up till the age of 18. At any time if they are not happy with the kid they can choose to abort. That means the kids will have more incentive to be good, not becoming a junkie, staying in school and not cause trouble
After 18 the abort rights is handed off to the government.
>>738964290 women were fully compensated and supported during motherhood. you know, the whole society taking care of all its members thing, collectivist solidarity to enable individualist growth. dialectics at work.
And this boys and girls is exactly why Hillary lost the election.
the vast bulk of the american people are not ok will killing a child as it emerges because "LOL ITS NOT OUT YETZ SO IZ STILL FIN TA KILL IT!!!!!!"
i in no way support killing an unborn child. however for practical reasons it should be allowed up to the first trimester and not after. Or if they want to abort it after the first trimester they they get their tubes tied unless there is a valid medical reason (IE the child poses a serious threat to the mothers life).
>>738960824 Lots of things have come from the liberal movement in recent years that everyone agrees is good. A better understanding of marijuana, gay rights, climate science, etc. But these are all mostly things that come with a small government by default. The continuation of liberal ideology (or rather, the left) is absolute insanity.
>>738964322 It isn't the depth of my reasoning as I can justify it. If you can say that "consenting to x means that you automatically consent to having your body used for y" then you can end up with a situation where involuntary blood and organ harvesting becomes a potential consequence for any number of activities.
Gender is how you feel, sex is deter my chromosomes (so technically there are like 6 genders - XX, XY, XXY, XYY, etc).
That said I per believe there are two genders, masculine and feminine, and a person's real "gender" is somewhere between the two, like a sliding scale.
Every one is a bit masculine and a bit feminine, some people are just closer to one side than the other.
Here's a REAL hypocrisy for you:
>Cops are evil! >Only cops can be trusted with guns!
>The government needs to stay out of our lives! >The government needs to stop the gays from doing [anything]!
>We need to base our laws off the Bible! >That Sharia law is so primitive!
>Obama doesn't have any political experience! >Vote Trump!
>We need to trust in science! >Eww! GMOs!
>Slaughtering horses is wrong for some arbitrary reason and it's inhumane to do it in the USA! >*Outlaws horse slaughter in the US, sending the entire multi-million dollar industry south of the border where there are literally no laws regarding animal welfare, humane treatment, or sanitation this dooming millions of animals to lives and deaths fat worse than anything that would happen in the USA.*
>>738964060 That is the literal action of sex, it leads to procreation. What's wrong is not using the correct methods to prevent pregnancy while having sex or taking responsibility for you actions. if the woman didn't want to have a baby she should have taken precautions. That's her right to having safe sex. She could carry extra condoms, made sure she took the pill, not let the man finish inside.
>>738964650 >That is the literal action of sex, it leads to procreation. The literal action of sex is rubbing various body parts together. Procreation is not intrinsic to sex. >What's wrong is not using the correct methods to prevent pregnancy while having sex or taking responsibility for you actions. Translation: Women should be punished for having sex. >if the woman didn't want to have a baby she should have taken precautions. If a woman doesn't want to have a baby, she can have an abortion.
>>738964570 Yeah climate science doesn't fall in. I dislike this topic in regards to politics; it doesn't have much to do with governments, IMO. This will be solved by the private sector moving into alternative energy sources because they're straight up better. Eventually we'll solve global warming with technology, with or without the government. I actually believe the Republicans take the climate denier stance purely because they don't want to admit they don't want to do anything of global warming, not because they can't but because they should. Taking the climate denier stance allows them to keep their super old voter base and also not spend money on the environment. They isolate the right-winged millennials with this, though. If it were up to me we'd have a good debate on whether or not the government could or should do anything about climate change, but dems paint everyone with my point of view as a fascist and repubs bury their head in the sand because they have to.
>>738964855 I think it's because these nouveau riche believe that money will give them class and think they can be a part of the finer clubs. Soon they realize we laugh at them for being hillbillies and they end up in a spending spree trying to prove they belong which just makes it worse. The more they spend, the more we laugh, the more they spend.
>>738964855 Get educated? He didn't go to Harvard or Yale. His parents paid a lot to get him into the schools that would take the money. With his low verbal IQ he'd have had a lot of trouble in life if not for his dad being a millionaire
Dumb argument. I hear lefties say "you are for smaller government, you must not want any police or fire departments then!" Not valid points. Wanting smaller government does not mean that you are for complete anarchy.
>>738964805 >The literal action of sex is rubbing various body parts together. Procreation is not intrinsic to sex. The literal action of sex is the insertion of the penis into the vagina >Translation: Women should be punished for having sex. Condoms are worn by men, men are punished far worse (Child support, alimony) - However isn't it really the child who really suffers >If a woman doesn't want to have a baby, she can have an abortion. True, However if not morally, then reasonably she should have taken precaution, even if it where as simple as saying "Wear a condom" (Job done)
Or you know we could educate them about what the fuck happens and how it happens rather then tell them their eyes will burn out and the guys dick will fall off if the bone before they are married then hoping for the best.
>>738964805 How is not taking the preventive actions for sex saying a woman shouldn't choose to do with their body. She can choose to tell her partner to wear a condom. Or she can take the pill. That's her choice she isn't punished for it.
And yes sperm traveling up the uterus is the action that happens during sex. It's a part of sex
>>738965405 >The literal action of sex is the insertion of the penis into the vagina Someone let the gays know. >Condoms are worn by men, men are punished far worse (Child support, alimony) - However isn't it really the child who really suffers If you want to say that the current system is fucked up and not fair to men or children, I'll readily agree with you. >True, However if not morally, then reasonably she should have taken precaution, even if it where as simple as saying "Wear a condom" (Job done) You can of course recommend that people take precautions (it's way cheaper and easier than having abortions). What I object to is the idea that having sex somehow obligates you to have a child if one is conceived.
>>738965504 Actually some on the right also want to ban condoms in school as well as birth control pills in general. They claim that birth control pills cause spontaneous abortions and that condoms encourage kids to have sex.
>>738965504 >How is not taking the preventive actions for sex saying a woman shouldn't choose to do with their body. wut >She can choose to tell her partner to wear a condom. Or she can take the pill. That's her choice she isn't punished for it. Sure. She can also choose to have an abortion. >And yes sperm traveling up the uterus is the action that happens during sex. It's a part of sex 1. Sperm travelling up the uterus does not always result in pregnancy. 2. Sperm does not always travel up the uterus during sex, unless you think protected sex is not sex.
>>738965879 Well if you make abortions illegal they are still going to happen. and at some point the decision should have already been made. If you are going to pick apart arguments then what do you think?
>>738966010 >If you don't take step to prevent pregnancy, hell even pulling out, you are going to have a baby Err... no, actually. You realize that couples don't conceive literally every time they have unprotected sex, right? >It's not a punishment, it's what the act of having sex causes. Not intrinsically.
>>738965732 Gave up? He continued his education to get out of the draft. Then to continue dodging it he claimed that playing sports ruined his feet. Poor people don't get to go to highschools that are necessarily as good as say a boarding school. They can't afford to just have their parents pay for them to get into the school of their choosing come college either. They rack up thousands in debt and then don't necessarily have the connections when it comes to business to get rich. Donald had his father's connections. He's a perfect example of what having very rich parents can do for you
>>738965734 >Someone let the gays know. It's just a matter of language, and why the term "Butt sex" exists as a definition, and who the fuck knows what lesbians pretend to do. >agree with you. Likewise >What I object to is the idea that having sex somehow obligates you to have a child if one is conceived. Likewise, especially in a world in which there is so much preventable illnesses (Physical and mental) - Being identified far far before 22weeks, Accidental pregnancies (Birth control failure) or the sad case of rape.
>>738965842 Not everyone agrees obviously. If Horny teens want to have concenting sex with someone their same age. They should be educated on proper birth control. Yes sex education prevents more pregnancy, and stds. Kids encouraged kids to have sex. Just like bullets don't encourage guns to shoot, they are completely goods. Proper education will always inform people of their choice. I just don't believe abortion is right for everyone like I stated way before it should be the last resort an afterthought
>>738962015 >Whether a fetus is a person or not has no impact on whether abortion should be allowed. >If you, a person, parasitically attached yourself to me, should I have the right to have you removed? What if removing you would kill you?
Correct. No one has the obligation to use their body as a goddamn life support system for another person.
>>738966681 >Then maybe they shouldn't have take the dick Maybe you should have checked the locks on your windows before I snuck in and parasitically connected myself to you. Actions have consequences after all.
>>738966255 Having rich parents doesn't give you a success for free card, it gives you the opportunity to be like them, if he didn't do anything with it then he would be like everyone else. Disregarding how I feel about him he did take advantage of it where he could have just slumped and rotted his life away
>>738966870 >If you're just going to dig your heels in and say terminating a pregnancy (At any stage) as a oversimplified generality is "Child Murder" than your morality is absurdly skewed.
Can you define the exact moment that humanity begins? Not talking about your opinion, asking if you can define the precise moment that we go from a parasitic sack of cells to a human + rights. If you can't define that moment (which you can't) then I don't see how you could be for abortion, because if you're wrong it's murder.
>>738960824 Moderates: >Having a stance on anything is stoud! be like me, don't care about anything ever! >look at my ability to craft retarded straw men of both sides! I'm so fucking smart for actively hiding from making choices!
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