>>726670470 >6 million people? Thats a shit load of ash. Where is it?
do you even history
it was not 6 million all at one camp, it was over many camps over years
I would focus less on "where are the bodies" when they were cremated in large creamatoriems that do exist and have been explored
and more on "why did the nazis say they were going to have a final solution for the jews, then take a bunch of photos of starving jews in their camps then document them coming in on trains and take their gold and kill them"
why are there thousands of eyewitnesses on both sides who said it happened? they are all making it up? even the germans?
Theres an overwhelming amount of evidence that the holocaust did happen. Instead of saying "hurr hurr hurr if dey burned all da bodies, den wheres da ash??" or some other shitty conspiracy theory, provide actual evidence that it didnt happen
>>726669854 Seems like people on /pol/ seem to think that it didn't happen quite as intentionally as originally thought. I'm a bit unclear myself. Here's what it seems like to me, but I'm happy to look at more evidence if people have some.
They were originally designed as prison camps for political dissidents like communists, and undesirables like jews and gypsies. It's a bit unclear wether these were meant to be death camps from the start. I'm going to say that the ones in Germany seem unlikely to have been built originally for that.
However as the war went on and on, as Germany began to run out of supplies, as they sent what they had to the front lines- the camps starved. Millions of people died from starvation, disease, etc. There does not seem to be good evidence of gas chambers. As Germany started losing the war, they likely attempted to mass murder everyone in the camps. These were their political opponents after all. Don't want them in charge once you lose.
After the war, Soviet Russia certainly killed a LOT of jews in their pograms. Many of their own camps in Poland were likely blamed on Hitler. The number of jews killed by germans is likely greatly exaggerated, but is still in excess of millions. Maybe 2-4 million instead of 6. Most of the people killed were political dissidents.
So I would say firmly "yes" it absolutely happened. But it's a bit more complicated than what they try to tell you.
>>726669854 To an extend yes, but the vast majority of actual physical documentation or evidence has been destroyed, deluded, or deemed incredible by any logical reasoning. Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Jews died during WWII along with a lot of other people like Gypsess, homosexuals, Poles, Soviets, criminals, and mentally defective persons.
There just isn't enough hard evidence to prove any of the servetly condemning aspects of the holocaust. There is just a large amount of personal stories and opinions.
>>726671813 The fact that they are no longer liberal democracies. They start with something everyone can agree on (Holocaust) then move to "hate speech" then broaden the definition until it includes anything except the officially approved party line.
>>726670932 They came from the Allies' carpet-bombing of Germany, which interrupted the Germans' supply lines and created starvation and epidemics in the camps. This was documented by the camps' commanders in their regular dispatches to headquarters.
>>726670976 this. the details of any historical event get exaggerated, distorted, and simplified - particularly when history's written by the victors. But even adjusting for all the distortion, it was still a disgustingly tragic holocaust that destroyed millions of innocent lives. that is absolutely true
>>726672120 Proving a negative proposition? No, that isn't the way it's supposed to work. And, no, there's no sense in trying to convince you of anything: if you will open your eyes, you will do so, if you will not, you will not. All we can do is to point you in the direction of the conversation. MuriKKKans are so damned lazy.
>>726672525 Eyewitness accounts from both sides? The problem is that literally nothing on the internet can be trusted unless its highly vetted by equally credible people. But, by the denier's logic, even that is called into question. Tbh i never expected to win any arguments here bc theyre literaly impossible to win. I just like arguing with stupid people
>>726672512 I'm sure that the allies were bombing as many supply lines as possible. Especially after / during the battle of Britain.
I also think that when push comes to shove, if there is just not enough food left, the Germans likely prioritized the troops. Same thing could have happened in the USA with the Jap camps, if the war had somehow been fought there.
>>726670797 20,000 killed at the dachau concentration camp. It's tiny by comparison to auschwitz/Birkenau. Now add Belzac, Treblinka, Bergen-belson, Sobidor, and all the other concentration/extermination camps in Europe.
>>726669854 The camps are real, been to some myself. From the looks of them, people where probably killed there, both by work and by execution.
But the "6 million" number is just bullshit. Just do the math yourself. See the number of camps, the timespan and calculate the murders per site per day. See if that number sounds reasonable to you yourself.
>It's really illegal the question the holocaust in germany and austria too i believe.
>>726672825 truth bro. I've met ppl who were in the camps. but I still don't buy the 6million number as it is the same number thrown around by jewish propaganda for years. fact is I'm so used to the media and the government telling giant fat lies and trying to pass it off as the gods own truth that I tend to not believe anything unless I see it.
>>726672898 The affront to common decency here is in insisting on a genocide that did not occur, a dishonesty on a global scale. Where indeed did all the dead bodies go? It takes an entire day and a great deal of energy to create a single human body. The math just doesn't work out. Germany had not sufficient coke (coal) nor crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Millions of bodies were not buried, either.
>>726669854 No. They were work camps, but people died from Typhus. The zyclon b was for killing the lice that spread the infection. Auschwitz wasn't equipped with enough ovens to cremate the one million people that supposedly died there. Cremation takes over 2 hours and they only had 15 ovens. 24h(day^-1) / 2h(oven)(Jews^-1) = 12 Jews per day per oven. 12 jews(day^-1)(oven^-1) * 15 ovens = 180 Jews per day total. 180 * 365 = 65,700 Jews cremated maximum at Auschwitz. That is much less than the standard one million figure. Also the European Jewish population according to the world almanac didn't decrease by anywhere near 6,000,000.
The victors determine history, and if you are gullible enough to believe your STATE FUNDED education about this topic, then you are a simple minded sheep.
fuck hitler. Austria isn't Ireland. Ethnic Austrians share genetics with south Russians and genghis khan. Attila was a better leader than Hitler ever could have been even if he had won his little temper tantrum.
>>726673355 >Remember what happens to those that forget the past. this this this >false flag attack on mosque >laws introduced to "protect" islam >oopps we sharia law now, all your women will either convert or be raped p.s you can't show dissent for your government or a religion which preaches rape and amputation as capital punishment, go canada!
meanwhile in nazi germany during the 30s: >false flag attack on parliament >oh hey give me and my goonies more power, it's for the protection and safety of us and our goonies, don't worry world >oops we annex europe and through the world into another war the scale of which is danm near apocalyptic
>>726673355 You're not making any sense. No one gets thrown into prison for saying that John Kennedy wasn't shot, they just get laughed at. Covering up a crime requires the foreknowledge that a crime was committed: what we're saying is that there was no such commission. And you give away your lack of understanding by using the pleonasm "sharia law": shariah says it all.
>>726674223 You mean the concrete showers? That didn't really seem to have any way to "gas" people except for some conspiracy theory level shit. Materials that they just wouldn't have had access too / bothered with. That would have been less efficient than other methods of death.
Listen, not saying it couldn't have happened. But I don't see much evidence for them. I think a lot of the propaganda during the war got mixed in with the actual events following. Things like the increased Jewish death tally and gas chambers.
This is not really me saying that the Nazi's were too nice to use gas. I have a feeling they might have if it was available and efficient. Just evidence points to those factors not being necessary / the case.
>>726675532 70% crap and lies and 30% staged propaganda by IS honestly, more than half the shit u see is decades old passed off as new. believe nothing and question everything. There is always an agenda.
>>726676425 Fletcher Hills, just outside of San Diego CA, was a Japanese strawberry farm before the war. When that Japanese family were released from camp after the war, they found their farm had been appropriated by a real-estate developer named Fletcher who became a millionaire by subdividing the farm into homes.
We all know how completely awful and worthless jews are. With that in mind it seems obvious to me that this whole holocaust thing is bound to happen again. When it does we can't go having two events in world history called the holocaust, so I suggest that we call the second go 'round the jewicide.
>>726676814 "Holocaust" is an ancient word, originally used for religious offerings burnt whole. The Turkish extermination of the Armenians at the beginning of the twentieth century was also referred to as a holocaust. But leave it to the Jews to appropriate the word for themselves alone, just as they have done with "anti-Semitic". The Jews aren't the only Semitic people on earth (in fact, most of them are Ashkenazi and not Semites): the primitive Christians and Arabs of Palestine are also Semites, which makes Israel the most anti-Semitic state actor on the world stage.
It'd be silly not to question all of the individual anecdotes, precise estimates of victim toll, etc, given their sources and subsequent use as propaganda I don't doubt that both are exaggerated to some extent. But there's no shortage at all of both reliable eye witness accounts, written, photographic, other physical, etc evidence to prove beyond any doubt that something very like the popularly portrayed holocaust did indeed happen.
>>726677203 There was a US engineer, a guy who worked for the prisons that employed gas chambers, who went to the concentration camps in the 1960s (I think) who documented the physics and construction of each place. He got discredited for reporting his findings. You can find out more about him on the debunking sites. There's an interesting interview with him on YouTube. I don't remember his name, sorry.
>>726676055 they are not a bunch of goat fucking sand eaters. not the ones in charge at least. they want gullible peons to do the goat fucking and dying ya know. and whats the best way to attract said twits.
>>726676736 >>726676832 Yeah, everyone shits bricks about the German camps (casually overlooking that there were also gays, gypsies, Huns, Poles, etc.) and no one talks about what all the other countries did with their suspicious citizens. The Japanese treated the Koreans and Chinese abominably, arguably worse than the Germans treated their prisoners. And the US made the Mexicans round up their Japanese as well -- Kingo Nonaka, one of the founding fathers of Tijuana and the town's first photographer, was sent away to die in Mexico City.
>>726678603 yes thats equally fucked up but the point made about the whole jewish part of the holocaust is te jews where above all te primary target and was wiped out at such an insanely efficient rate
>>726679169 Concentration camp survivors are real. I have known at least a dozen of them. Olivier Messiaen (a French Catholic) wrote his Quartet for the End of Time while enjoying German hospitality: its unusual instrumentation was due to the instrumentalists at his disposal, but thus documented the presence of a piano, cello, viola, and clarinet in the camp he was at. Not the deathly hallows we are expected to imagine.
>>726679339 The Jews were the most populous target but the gays, gypsies, and mental defectives were also important targets. The theory that the Jews became a target because of Rothschild meddling in Germany's currency is plausible (and not the first time to occur) but, as Tom Lehrer used to sing "everybody hates the Jews". https://youtu.be/CgASBVMyVFI
As to being wiped out at an insanely efficient rate, that seems to have been roundly debunked by now. There were as many Jews after WWII as before and there was no efficiency in any of the killing … until perhaps the carpet-bombing by the Allies caused widespread starvation and disease.
>>726677917 Because the chambers were in a fucking camp of rickety barracks not in a concrete prison.
Because the doors they used were good enough.
Because nobody fucking cared if Hans the gas chamber operator developed a chronic cough after a while, because, oh, look, we just sent another 100,000 of our soldiers to their deaths on the Eastern Front, and would Hans perhaps prefer to join them instead?
>>726669854 Without going into my own personal take on whether or not it happened, I'll say this: If it DIDN'T; the US would've come out of WWII looking the worst, for dropping 2 atomic bombs on civilian populaces.
>>726670642 if you spread them over five years and about a hundred camps, and a burn a few, and just throw the rest in pits, it doesn't take much imagination to see that it is easy to do. About the same number of Russians, Ukrainians and poles were killed - just left dead at the roadside and in their fields and houses. six months on and the rats and maggots have done the work - easy to get rid of.
why is this hard for denialists to think about? fear of big numbers? lack of basic math? lack of understanding of basic biological processes?
>>726681050 ...Point. Gassing jews story is an effective way to ensure at least second place in the pariah of WW2 rankings. I wonder why there's not more effort to bash Stalin harder? His highscore was apparently 4x that of Hitler's.
I guess Stalin's target audience was more varied, and it was harder for ze jews to steal the spotlight on that one. Possibly better if the world didn't know for them.
>>726673433 but also forgot to mention that they didn't cremate them one at a time, that no one ever said that they cremated all the bodies, and that the camp authorities complined to the makers of the ovens that they were not efficient because the designers had come up with a system where the fat from the bodies would help fuel the fires, but the starved prisoners didn't have enough body fat to do that.
I just do not get why you are so keen to let mass murderers off the hook.
My grandfather was at Dachau - if he was alive now he would punch your lights out for denying what he saw.
>>726673839 but you are saying there was no commission without any good evidence for that belief. and in the face of good evidenc that the nazis went from a plan to export all jews to Madagascar to a plan to let the Warsaw Ghetto jews die of starvation and disease, to a plan to murder all that could not work and work the rest to death. It is all documented. It is all sworn to by Nazis. it was all witnessed. Your silly "where are the bodies" shit is just demeaning. To yourself.
What I don't get is, why, after deciding they were going to slaughter them all, would they continue to ship them to camps to do it there; expending the manpower & resources to do so at the height of the war? It would've been easier & left LESS of a trail to simply execute them in the cities they'd conquered as they went along.
>>726683581 But why not execute them where they were found, if that was the goal? The Germans were far too efficient to have wasted so much effort, transport them all that way, simply to gas them immediately.
>>726679129 Maybe they deserve it for being such a backwards barbaric race full or autistic suicide bombers and women beaters, not that the jews never beat their women or kill/maim/rape and use Palestine children as bullet cushions, the jews are golden lel
Fucking morons. There were 740 million people in Europe during the war. More than six million Europeans died every year even before the war. No one ad's, "where are all the dead from the past seven decades?"
Six million died. They're gone. It's not fake and you're a stupid cocksucker if you believe otherwise.
>>726669854 Funny thing is that aside from 6 millions Jews Germans gassed about 5 millions Slavs, gypsies, freemasons, fags, mentally ill and political dissidents. I dunno everybody keeps forgetting about it. Even if there wasn't any Holocaust the Germans still gassed millions people.
>>726684905 >It's not fake and you're a stupid cocksucker if you believe otherwise Ad hominem just makes you look like an ass. It's known that history is written by the victors; and the victor's goal while doing so is to paint the vanquished as the clear, obvious evil to be defeated, while making themselves appear as virtuous as possible. Trying to shut down questioning of history just makes the motivations for doing so look suspect. And this is definitely a scenario where the numbers simply don't add up to what's in the "official" texts when you start looking closely at it.
>>726684983 Much of this was based on falsified Soviet evidence Stalin pulled out of his ass; to divert attention from his own atrocities. It's not like there was much of an opposition to it nor "will" to question it at the time...
>>726685599 >It's a well documented event, dumb ass This will be my last reply to you if you're going to continue to use ad hominem. Attacking me instead of my arguments belies a weak mind and position. Remove the jewish "firsthand" accounts. Then remove Soviet evidence. Both show too many signs of unreliability & (at the very least, in the soviet case, outright fabrication). You'll find what's left is not enough to base any "solid" accounts or numbers on.
>>726685404 That's not what the picture is saying you autistic faggot. It says there's a TV show, ghost adventures, which showed this picture and claimed it was from another incident.
Basically some faggot American producer of a shit-teir TV show asked one of his intern to Google up an old picture that looks like a train accident and this is what the intern came from. And braindead daniers like yourself take this unreliable source as absolute pure truth, since it fit your agenda.
Once again deniers prove their own stupidity and worse, that they don't even understand their own shit that they post.
>>726686215 X = Google every single pogrom, camp, gettho and camp in Europe. Y = (1945 - 1933) * days in a year. Z = what do you even mean by that? Like ways of killing? starvation, shooting, medical experiments, burning.
Over 60 million people died in total in WW2 how come you don't question any of those victims and only the Jews? How did a fucking 20 million Russians died that's an insane number! But they did.
A lot of historians did the calculations you're asking. The data is online. Instead of asking questions like a retarded faggot go and answer your own questions (I already gave you hints to some of them) and see if it adds up.
>>726669854 ITT: Either/and/or a bunch of war vets over 100 years old; some outright racists; or simple, gullible fucks who believe whatever teacher & the TV tells them, without questioning it. Who have the gall to call people who think for themselves, critically, "retarded". Pot, meet kettle.
but it's because they feel something is wrong but they can't properly explain (not their wrongdoing: just the fact you Zionist zealots have more elegant slogans) - thus they use a few slogans.
"Something is wrong". Let me explain the concept with an example from different thing.
It's like when you consider that your grandpa paid "three years wage" that house, and you will have to pay "thirty years wage" a similar house. You aren't a Financial Expert Advisor, but you smell something fishy between 1960's economy and 2010's.
Same applies in front of the 6,000,000 survivors talking about Holocaust and asking compensations 73 years after the so-called "facts".
>>726669854 Even if the Nazis didn't kill one civilian life under their control AND it's one giant Soviet & Jewish conspiracy, they still diverted war efforts to keeping people locked up in camps. The Germans were in short supply or men and materials. They could have used these prisoners as soldiers. They made sure these hell holes were kept open and running until the bitter end. Even with the most generous of reasoning of why people died in the camps, it's still gross negligence. Which is still an atrocity and war crime. At the very least, the Nazis were monsters who treated people like animals. They were no better than modern day SJWs except with guns and taken to the intellectually logical conclusion.
>>726687072 See, most can not make the distinction between "deniers", and those who simply are questioning the official records & presentation of things. But as soon as you start questioning things like numbers & whether or not "official" accounts are accurate, you get grouped in with the outright deniers. The cognitive dissonance is staggering; it's like we didn't JUST have a fucking war where the evidence supporting it, presented as fact, was GROSSLY inaccurate & partially fabricated (Iraq).
>>726687193 The Palestinians mortality rate and infant mortality rate is one of the lowest in the middle East (and lower than even some European and south America countries), all while the population in Gaza rapidly growing. They have hotels there, museum, houses by the beach and very nice places. Sure there are some shitty areas too because they are sandniggers and elected a terror organization as their government, and every other year that said terror organization (Hamas) starts a round with Israel which fucks them up. But their life is pretty ok.
You are either a retarded sjw or a sandnigger to buy the pallywood sandniggers propaganda.
>>726687193 That's fine if you want to consider Israelis monsters. I'm not here to defend Israel. I had ancestors who died in Andersonville prison during the civil war. I can still say the union government was bad along with the way the confederate government neglected Andersonville prison.
On a side note; Ayn Rand who had no love lost for the socialist state of Israel decades ago, still was able to call out the Palestinians for being "brutes and savages". related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU
>>726687258 I think the concern of questioning the numbers, which is a debate I'm personally willing to have, is of the way leftist intellectuals treated Robert Conquest and the numbers the communists/international socialists killed. They tried to down play the number if not outright deny the reality.
I always thought it was odd that we can still argue about the number killed by the Nazis, as if it was only 1 million killed it would suddenly make everyone sleep better at night. Even if Hitler killed the upward number of 11-12 million,that's a rounding error compared to the soviets. Never understood why we feel the need to hash out this number when the gorilla in the room is ignored.
It is an accepted idea that most of the killings happened between about 1941 and 1944. Auschwitz–Birkenau supposedly eliminated 1.1 million people between 1940 and 1945. My rough math brings us to 646 people killed per day. An absolutely ridiculous amount of waste to deal with over the course of four and two thirds years. Even crazier is Treblinka, which ran for 15 months and is supposedly responsible for an output of 800,000 corpses, or 1700 per day. Do you have any idea how fucking huge the fire would have to be to incinerate 1700 people every 24 hours? Pretty fucking big, that's for sure.
>>726687680 To me, it's the motivations behind the numbers being ratcheted up that's the source of curiosity. When the numbers are more realistic, the playing field for kills becomes much more even between the axis & allies, & incidents like the firebombings in Japan & Germany stand out much more starkly.
>>726688159 Yeah that makes sense. There has been a bit of revisionism to make the allies look better in the history books. I guess it makes the allied countries sleep better at night that there is bigger monsters than them. War is terrible and I think if the Nazis aligned themselves early on with Great Britain and France to fight the Soviets, this wouldn't be an issue that they killed people.
plenty of evidence in the first twenty years - including all the stuff at the trials, and plenty of eyewitness accounts. deniers only got popular once the eyewitnesses started to die, and the evidence was depleted by time.
your fanatical hatred and prejudice does not make your lies true. But it does show how another mass killing can easily happen. (where did all the bodies go in Cambodia - Pol Pot did no wrong! Where are all the bodies in Armenia, the massacres never happened, where are all the bodies in Syria, ISIS have not killed anyone!)
>>726684968 don't get your logic. French jews were almost wiped out - half a million. German half a million, polish three million, Hungary and Czech best part of another million - there's your six right there. add the others... easy to get to that number.
>>726684983 actually, like you, most people do not forget these figures. And the Jewish community also cites them. it is not that the jews monopolise the holocaust - they talk about the roma and the slavs as well.
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