Promoting conformism. Not much else.
If there is enough food to feed everyone, why are there people without food?
Communism and anarchism have always been the same thing, ever since it was conceived in Europe.
whatever is deemed necessary by those in power.
If you don't know then why are you even complaining and/or talking about it?
It is contradictory, but there's some doctrinal arguments for it from Marx's writing. The general concept as I understand it is the position that the violent overthrow of government by proletariat (which is an inherently anarchic act) would be followed by a mutualist forming of communes. That has never and will never happen in all of human history, but that's the general idea.
If you want to look from the point of view of people known as communist thinkers:
Marx explicitly states that anarchism is the final goal of Marxism
If you want to look from the point of view of people known as anarchist thinkers:
Bakunin, Kropotkin, and all other early anarchist thinkers understood that capitalism and anarchism were mutually exclusive, and often worked with Marxists even while disagreeing with Marxism.
There are people without food because of capitalism. I was asking you to confirm this. Why else would people not have food that exists?
Only time is the genuinely scarce thing there. The sun puts out a lot of energy every day.
yeah the likeliness of that happening at any time is a zero
i've not really read up on that stuff much and what i did was very minimal and was a long time ago in a classroom while on a computer
i'm in a position where all i can do is complain
Why didn't you mention this when I asked the initial question?
Overthrowing a state isn't inherently anarchist. A libertarian could do it too. Even a socialist or fascist could.
>forming of communes
You seem to be thinking of Marxism or something else. I agree that Marxism will never work, but fortunately Marxism and communism/anarchism are distinct entities.
Socialism would lack today's capitalism, but it would still have statism, and statism is shit.
Right, energy is no good without the capacity to harness it though. You need solar panels, which require various materials to construct, require expertise to design, require time to assemble, etc.
>There are people without food because of capitalism
Wrong. More people are fed sufficiently today than at any previous time in history. The problem is objectively being solved. You just dislike the paste.
I don't think change needs to happen since the system works, my dude.
This argument is pretty boring honestly but I'm not doing anything important rn.
It trends towards anarchy in the general spectrum, however, and requires a brief loosening of state power in the interim (typically followed by a tightening).
I'm fascinated by what exactly your communism looks like if it's not doctrinal marxism and it's not statist.
I mean it's an argument about communism as opposed to capitalism and capitalism is doing just fine so
It's neat stuff. Marx was a perceptive guy, but he was also too naive. He thought a (socialist) state would willingly stop existing. States exist solely to continue existing, and will never do such a thing. In prefer these thinkers in this order: Kropotkin, Bakunin, Chomsky. Chomsky is American, by the way.
Any pace slower than "within my lifetime" is copping out. If you don't see something solved in your lifetime, you don't have proof it ever gets solved in the entire existence of the universe.
It's just communism. Regular communism known by so many people for well over a century.
It's ridiculous. When I say communism, most people from Europe, Asia, and South America immediately understand. People from North America often don't understand. I want to know where this cultural difference comes from.
Why are your standards so low?
It's doing ok I think, could be better. Communism is doing worse. Neither is perfect. Both are tied down by corruption.
Poor MLK then, huh?
No, that explanation is decidedly insufficient. Communism in Europe, Asia, and South America was and is state enforced. You claim to be an anarcho communist. These things are not mutually compatible.
My standards are not low, I am merely not a utopian idiot.
Sure, it could be better. Nothing's perfect.
True. Everything is fallible because people are fallible as well. Doesn't mean we can't improve it. Not that you said we couldn't.
Communism doesn't exist today. It's not doing anything, because it doesn't exist. At best you could say socialism exists, but it really doesn't. A mixed-economy is inherently capitalist.
Those are mutually exclusive though. And no one in those places thinks communism is statist. For example, as one person from the USSR told me:
"No one said the USSR was communist. No one thought the USSR was communist. Communism was the light at the end of this dark tunnel."
Right, I'm just not motivated to be an agent of that improvement within the current system since I think in general terms we're doing well enough. If you care to smooth it out around the edges, one imagines you might go into politics.
I do have a vested interest in arresting the progress of people who want to obliterate the system I think is pretty good, though.
So everyone knew what communism was, but it never happened anywhere, and every government that claimed to be communist was lying - and when those systems fell, they all became capitalist or otherwise statist.
Sounds like the light at the end of the tunnel is didn't actually exist to begin with, huh
Communism and Socialism never truly existed. Those in power reaped the rewards. I was speaking of the ideal.
man fuck this shit after work I'm gonna get chipotle it's gonna be fuegissimo and then I'm gonna dick around ALL THE DAMN DAY
No state claimed to be communist, though. Some states claimed to be working towards communism, though. Those are almost certainly the states you're thinking of.
They were already statist and sometimes already capitalist. State capitalism exists:
I'll not ever even claim the USSR was socialist. Mixed-economies are capitalist.
Communism exists, but the idea that Marxism can bring people there is faulty. The anarchocommunist idea of going straight to communism without socialism can work though. It either worked or got close to working in Catalonia.
Communism may have existed in Catalonia and Ukraine at certain periods of time.
If you don't know about 90% of what you're talking about, why are you forming an opinion? If you only know 10% of what you are forming your opinions off of it means your opinions are uninformed, which means they aren't credible to those who know more. They may not be many, but those are the people in charge.
I didn't say the capitalism wasn't statist, I was including it as an option. All I'm hearing from you, though, is that communism has literally never occurred, let alone been an improvement. I mean
>Communism may have existed in Catalonian and Ukraine at certain periods of time
Is about as convincing as saying "yeah dude I think I saw bigfoot"
it's not like anyone's going to care about my opinion anyways, and why would they be looking for a credible opinion from me of all people?
i said i don't know what i'm talking about with 90% of subjects that exist, 10% that do and i only know a bit about them, i know enough about the government i live under to be okay with the system it has in place compared to other styles of government
Okay, I can go into more details. During the Spanish civil war, Catalonia for a while was able to protect itself from both sides. During that time period, there was no money or barter (therefore no capitalism) and also no state. That's communism.
Some people debate whether it was truly unorganised enough to be called communism. There were several small organisations in existence due to the pressures of the war. If there was no war, perhaps they'd not exist.
Hemingway, Orwell, and many other authors visited it and wrote about their experiences. But then states from around the world, both to become axis and ally in WW2, sent their militaries in. This is because the biggest threat to a state is the threat of the good example: the example that people can be happy without a state.
I'm not so sure. Those in power usually abuse it. Ukraine is a former Soviet state where corruption ran rampant. It still may run rampant in both the Ukraine and Russia. Catalonia is Spain. Spain is well known for its poor use of money concerning the people and infrastructure.
I don't know that it fits your definition. Trade unions were operating as defacto overlords in revolutionary catalonia. It sounds like communism in the common understanding of it but certainly not anarchism despite the nominally anarchic traits of one party - the fact is that the general trend of humans to organize into hierarchy systems remains as inevitable as ever. It's by far the best example you have, though.
Also, nobody invaded Catalonia because they were communist. Catalonia got invaded because it's clay, and clay is valuable, and if your guns are bigger than the other guy's you take their clay. Come on now.
I know that the trade union/parties are a significant detractor from anarchism/communism. That's why I said it may have existed, and if it didn't exist, that's as close as we've gotten to it in Europe. There are also examples of gift economies that existed in polynesian islands before European conquest. Those clearly didn't lack some hierarchies, though.
When it comes to the Soviet union, aka Stalin, the KGB (which Putin had a hand in) was basically a death squad. They influenced Ukraine's government whether they want to admit it or not. I am not as informed on Catalonia, but people in power are usually inherently corrupt. Money is power for the most part, especially now.
My bad. Poor choice of words. I was up all night.
So it was basically a military state?
No. It was a stateless area protected by a volunteer army. Definitely less of an example than the Catalonia example I explained here:
If the only reason why it existed is because it was protected by some sort of military, which failed, it means it was technically run by the military. (By the way, this conversation has been very fun. I've gotten to learn some things too!)
That's debatable. I definitely don't use the free territory as my main point.
While I don't feel sleepy, my body feels weak. I should go to bed sometime.
understandable. I mentioned that I'm not very informed on Catalonia previously. It's something I'll look into. I just find it hard to believe that any of those systems have ever existed in their pure forms.
>find it hard to believe
That's p understandable too. If you read my chomsky link in this thread, you'll find out why. A lot of propaganda is made specifically to deny that freedom can ever exist.
can you link me to it? I'm a bit lazy at the moment.
Who are you btw? Seeing as how we're the only ones left posting.
I'm the same, except nameless. Been lurking/ posting for a long time. Commenting when I'm extremely bored.
I made this one and I don't think it's going all that well. I post for the sake of posting I guess.
eh, just do you man. that's all i can really say about it
I always start my threads with an arctic fox so that might be some sort of recognition. I lurked up until two years ago and commented at random, but have been around for awhile. Never payed attention to the comments until I really started posting though.
nah, I'll be anon until someone gives me a name. I don't feel like giving myself one.
as i said, just do you man.
bored... you are one of three people in the thread.
I'm sure it'll pick up again tonight
i try to be most of the time
Just being lazy as usual, playing some video games
I actually left the game room early because the Least Pleasant Person Alive sat down at the setup and started his typical routine of bitching about every single option anyone chooses ever.
yeah dude I didn't have to leave for work yet since technically I was still in an appointment but I just couldn't handle his constant "WOW WHY DID YOU WAVELAND THERE THAT WAS SO DUMB"
he's not even good fuck
shulda murdered him
I'm just watching Amazon Prime and being jobless for the moment.
I kinda miss working. I'm bored most of the time now.
I was an optics engineer, so yah, different. I hated working retail when I did. I get it.
That's probably more interesting
The best job I ever had was running the projection booth for an independent theater because I only did 20 minutes of actual work and just read or played on my laptop or hung out with whoever was working concessions.
It's always nice when work takes less effort at times.
she's doing alright, she's fallen asleep now
Ahh ok let kitty sleep. What's her name?
jesus christ how horrifying how old was he
You should always be kind to people who are less knowledgeable than you in a subject because they just might be an expert in something you need help with later.
Besides, "ask a question and look like a fool for a moment rather than don't ask and be a fool forever"
some people just don't get it
her name's Hazel and i got the sleeping pic
she faced the other direction to be sure she wouldn't be bothered. Adorable. I miss my kitty.
she just doesn't like sleeping with the light bulb in the room shining on her face, i think the bulb is too bright for her
i was about to ask if it was really that annoying to teach people how to use a computer but then i remembered that it's indeed awful and i would never do that as a job again
>me succ dicc good
you'll have to have some references ready for your new pimp
>it sounds fun
if you've got no skills for being a hitman, you're not going to get picked over someone who does and then will have no fun
My cat is a shoulder cat. He was the runt and loved playing fetch. I miss him. Puck didn't like bright lights either.
sword is a cunt
if I give them you as a reference tell them I'm the sickest
I'm away from home too much so I gave him to one of my friends who has 6 kids. Their Mastiff treats him like that cat and bulldog in the Warner brothers cartoon. They live on a farm and he kills anything that shouldn't be on it. Good home.
that's what it seems like yeah, I never interacted with him much.
he doesn't post very often
also if my pimp calls pretend I've blown you
>implying I'm not a cute girlboy
well catalonia was very briefly administered by organizations that called themselves communist and anarchist in the aftermath of the revolts
also when we doing Return
Very briefly, like you said. They didn't really have time to set up anything before the government came and just arrested everyone.
didn't drunky say something about wanting to join or something?
Oh yeah I'm not a commie, I don't think that shit works.
I think he wants to get drunk and talk with us on skype or something, I forget
all I know is ima be drinking on friday regardless
What? What makes you say that?
that sounds gay also I cant skype while streaming unless yall want a 5 frames a second video.
also I wasnt even joking about not noticing a lisp.
That reminds me of "sick" = "thicc" when Subby says it.
I will never get over this.
He has a lisp.
Well I mean I'm the one who's said that.
It was some good OW.
I cant tell whether he sayin you tried to say sick or thic
I haven't played that game since then. Do you even still play?
Sick. Lisps never go th -> s, always the other way.
lmk if you want to play when you see me on steam
I like drinking and playing video games with you and tracer.
Who will be gay the next time I open Overwatch?
A new character will be revealed every patch.
>tfw drinking beer right now
I should play OW.
>drinking beer right now
>1:30 your time
>meanwhile I am the alcoholic
my headcanon is tracer is actually a tranny and therefore a straight man with a feminine penis
Midwest da best
My Chicago beer tastes good.
My day is done. Only have classes till lunch.
I just wanted to chill with some beer and some vids from Cryaotic. Amazing youtuber.
I jumped ship on Overwatch, blizzard can't balance that piece of shit.
They got McCree, a volatile hero, to a good place, so I'd say it's possible.
Just a hell of a lot of hero interactions that will change with the meta and as heroes are added. Balance will be somewhat achieved eventually.
It's alright, I had my 11-5 day yesterday. I run in the morning and have leg day after dinner. That's a tiring day.
Wednesday is basically 11-8.
monday is 11 to 4, tuesday is 10 to 9, wednesday is 8 to 4, thursday is 10 to 3, and friday is 11 to 5
my schedule blowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws
I'm good, ima pig tf out and get chipotle for lunch since I'm still here for another 6 hours
>another six hours
I'm so sorry that sounds like way too much.
Chipotle sounds nice though I ha ven't had it in quite awhile the one in my town is like 16 minute drive away so I don't make it over there.
I almost had nothing to Tu/Th, just a recitation on Tuesday. But then I just shoved my office hours on the two days. Still very easy though. I like my 11-1 Friday; get off early-ish.
Maybe if you get the shell (300 fucking cals) and sour cream / guac then I'd call it pigging out. Bowls are reasonable.
Be sure to get the grilled veggies with whatever you get. And the hot salsa / sauce / whatever you call it. I just always go with a chicken "salad," which is really just a bowl.
Just drink your way through the day.
I'm gonna get steak since my new wifi password features the words cow and taco so I've been thinking about that shit all day.
I need to get a hip flask.
Have I not been a homo recently?
your power has not been fully realized.
I just get chicken because it's the cheapest and good protein. I really like the sofritas (tofu) doe.
I have a flask. Only used it once.
this is clearly how I'm going to become a hitman
get a job hippy
I haven't had much hard alcohol lately, just beer and wine. I did get some brandy though, and it's good.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who could use a quickie. Is not much work.
nice linking fucco
>download grindr again
>become anxious of rejection
>become anxious of aids
>hate self for days
i tried my best
if you get a job and buy a gun I'll buy you a box of ammo
strive to do better
>not actively being a drain on the government as much as humanly possible
Just take your chances with AIDS and use contraction as a reason to kill yourself.
Contracting a disease means that you have acquired it, in this case from semen or saliva or shit or however AIDS works.
Okay I'll take you up on that come summer.
If I could impregnate a cute boy I would
>being nude and having shoes on
THIS SHOULDN'T ANGER ME SO MUCH
>If there is enough food to feed everyone, why are there people without food?
Because of the logistics and distribution problems that exist. Many of which are exacerbated, not solved, by governments (c.f. Muhammad Aidid).