>>720046397c No conundrum. Its a moral outrage, but not worth putting women and providers in jail for. I oppose it for moral but non-religious grounds. The religious fucks that go around acting as if they are God's tools whacking doctors are just as whacky as Isis. Fuck all ya fux. People suck.
Everything about abortion is morally wrong and twisted. It should absolutely be illegal. You fucked without a condom, or you weren't careful enough? Too fucking bad. It's your responsibility as a human being to take care of that kid. No ifs or buts.
>>720046397 A fetus can't survive on its own. It is fully dependent on its mother's body, unlike born human beings.
Even if a fetus was alive, the "right to life" doesn't imply a right to use somebody else's body. People have the right to refuse to donate their organs, for example, even if doing so would save somebody else's life.
Would a person refusing to donate organs also be committing homicide?
If not, this makes the right to abortion seem rather more just - as the legal decision to refuse to support a life is incomparable to the illegal decision to end one.
What is your recommendation in the cases where childbirth:
-is as the result of rape -puts the life of the pregnant woman at risk -poses a risk to the mental and physical health of the pregnant woman -poses a risk to the mental and physical health of the fetus -shows there is evidence of extreme fetal abnormality i.e. the child would be seriously physically or mentally handicapped after birth and during life
>>720046971 Some guy beats and rapes your girl then beats and rapes you. The same seed that fills your now ripped asshole is the seed that will grow and mature into the half nigger baby you are to raise. What do you do?
i was for abortion when my gf became pregnant, and was attempting at any means necessary to get her to get one, even at 23 weeks i was still pushing for it
now that he's been born, and all those other emotions of fear and anxiety are over, morally speaking I don't agree with it whatsoever, i mean just looking at that photo from OP makes me feel like shit, but I'm thankful he's alive today and wouldn't want it any other way.
>>720046397 I think it's totally unfair that women are allowed to kill babies if they can't handle the responsibilty, but if I punch a pregnant woman in the stomach I'll be charged with murder. Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous.
>>720046829 They dont. Take it from someone who had gone through with it, costs around 600 to get done not including if you want anastasia, and you definitely will. Ex described it as "vacuum in vagoo"
I'm all for pro choice. As a human right, it is your body, you do what you want with it. However I don't think it should be government funded. It should sway away shitty niggers, spics and white trash from anti-contraception as a go to. If you can't afford to abort your kid than either put it up for adoption or take care of it yourself.
However, I am pro choice to a certain extent. I truly don't know until I am in those shoes, and I'm a man. I really wouldn't know. I do believe that the fetus deserves to live. It's morally wrong to kill something that you made, but if you and your partner are like out of school and can take care of it, then by all means take care of it.
I'm not even going to read peoples comments on this because I get so mad. Abortion isnt used as a whores way of getting rid of an "uh-oh". If I were raped I would not keep the dudes baby. >inb4 female contraceptives I shouldn't have to wear a little plastic stick in my arm to prevent surprise pregnancy by some nigger
>>720047853 Keep in mind, the abortion is painful as shit (>>720047661 anon again) and can seriously damage the woman's parts sometimes permanently. It's not something people are gonna use instead of birth control
>>720047661 If you paid for it completely without government assistance and my insurance premiums are not raised to help cover your stupid ass then I am cool with it. One less genetic failure in the world.
Some people should have mandatory abortions, there are enough people. Morality and your opinion have nothing to do with the survival of the human race. Your first prenatal doctor appointment should include a mandatory iq test and if you and your spouse don't pass the test ABORT.
>>720046563 As a very liberal person, I don't deny this. Abortion is a bad thing, but it needs to remain legal in the interest of the people who would do it anyway if it were illegal. You know, so they only kill one person instead of two.
>>720046397 Im actually pro genocide so abortion isnt really a big deal to me. Ugenics is probably the only thing I like the leftist for. They abort about 35,000 nigger babies alone every year. That doesnt count the wetbacks, kikes, mudslime, or any other shit tier race
>>720047887 Do you really think many abortions happen as a result of rape? The vast majority are a result of skanks who like the feeling of men ejaculating in their holes and cant be bothered to go on the pill. Abortion is just convenient for them.
>>720047853 If a mother is relying on govt assistance to about a child, then she would most likely be on govt assistance to raise the child if the abortion was unavailable. Tell me, what's more expensive to the taxpayer: >1. One time abortion >2. 18 years govt assistance
>>720046397 The only real discussion to be had is where to draw the line. Making a general statement about it just proves a person to be incapable of connecting their ethics to the real, physical world. If they aren't, they are unwilling and hence equally void of reason.
the non-religious pro-life argument "I'm an autistic faggot who will never get laid and hate all the assholes and sluts who enjoy life and get to have sex so i think abortion should be illegal and STD research should be outlawed."
>>720046397 Abortion should be legal at the very LEAST to prevent more retards/mentally handicapped. They are a drain to government money. A drain on the people that are stuck raising them. They make everyone else uncomfortable. They are a liability. They are bad for healthcare costs. It's fucking lose lose. God don't punish by proxy. He goes individually. If you can't handle it, shut your eyes.
>>720046397 I dunno man. Do you even know any babies? It's hard to say they that even a newborn is a person. They just sit there, poop, make noise...
You're nurturing something that will become an amazing person but when they're even younger than that...
Well, not to put too fine a point on it but a quick end is better than a lot of us get. People worry about death, there's loss of life, but no one ever thinks about how there was no life to begin with. You were not here 5 years before you were born and 5 years after you die you're not here. ::shrug::
>>720046397 I'm ultimately pro-choice but I think the pro-life side has the better moral argument.
The sweeping vast majority of abortions carried out are done so out of convenience, often economic convenience, as opposed to some serious medical condition in which the would-be mother's life is sincerely in danger. These rationalizations of, "Oh, I'm not ready," "The child would surely not have a good life if I had it now," or even, "I simply don't have the finances to support a child right now," are all just that--rationalizations. Worse, they're rationalizations a reluctant father could just as easily make and lay claim to and yet these would-be mothers would be just as quick to spit in these unwilling father's faces for daring to say such things. These excuses are not only contemptuous but hypocritical.
However, the simple fact of the matter is that there is a demand for abortions. Hell, we've excavated various cites dating back to ancient Greece that held the remains of infants--an early form of "abortion" if you will. Even more recently, before safe haven laws, we'd find babies thrown in dumpsters, tied up in burlap sacks and tossed into the river, so on and so forth. If people don't want to be parents bad enough they will do some far more heinous shit despite the deterrence of law. If a human life must die, what would you rather? Drowning to death in a burlap sack very much aware of it? Or cut short before sentience?
It's just pragmatism. The state of being in which society gets to a point that the only abortions carried out are those in which the mother is mortal danger is a pipe-dream. You either deal with the imperfect solution of barely mitigated wanton abortion or the far more imperfect solution in which it's heavily criminalized and we go back to finding a fuckton of baby corpses.
Abortion is the greatest gift feminists have ever given the white race!
The VAST majority of women getting abortions (at least in America) are black, which obviously means the vast majority of babies getting a return to sender procedure are black. Abortion is the single greatest contributor to the fact that the American black population has been nearly flat for the last 30 years.
If anything we should be heavily promoting and subsidizing abortion for proud women of color! Hell... I'd pay MORE taxes if you gave black women a "finders fee" for each Tiny Tyrone they scalp.
The only flaw with abortion is that it only guts the black community. Mexicans and Muslims are too damn God fearing to allow their Petite Pacos and Minature Mohammeds to be disposed of. Damn shame.
If the consequence of having a child you cannot support results in the death of you and your child the result would be people that actually have to practice self control and only have sexy fun time when they have earned it by earning enough money to support a family.
If a tiger has 6 cubs and one falls behind it dies. If they stay and cater to the weak then they all starve and become weak which lowers the overall chance of the pack. Nature has had the common sense answer to most problems. Diseases should be a common sense warning but that doesn't stop anyone. Society will find a way around it so the week can continue to shoot porno's.
>>720051981 No. Black and Hispanic women actively try to shit out as many babies as they can so that they can get even fatter cheques from the government. Get rid of welfare and then promote abortion and it would be a gift to whites.
I'm perfectly fine with abortion as long as you can scientifically define the exact moment on OP's flow chart when we go from sack of cells to a human being. If you can't define that moment then how can you possibly be for abortion. If you are wrong then you are essentially, no, literally are for murder.
>>720052477you know we have quantified how many people in the system are exploiters. its less than 2%. government budgets piss 2%. many times republican lead congressional investigations into welfare or food stamps cost more than annual fraud does.
Should be legal honestly until a certain week about 18-20 which I think is the law in the US already not sure about elsewhere. Is it disgusting? Well depends on your religion and such but realistically no because its basically removing a parasite and a fetus is quite literally a parasite.
I dont get why not as long as its not paid by insurance or government. Sure i think women should own up to their mistakes, which is why they should either deliver it or pay a fair ammount of money. Killing a fetus is not worse than killing a mouse.
>>720046397 Better to abort a foetus instead of raising an unwanted child. The world has enough shitty people as is. Yeah It's traumatic for women blablabla who cares. Not as much of a burdening on society.
you should be allowed to "abort" a child until around 2 years old, that's about as young as you can be without really having a complex understanding of your own mortality, let alone suffering. i don't feel bad for eating a cow as smart as a 2 year old, it's not about species, it's about intelligence
>>720053195 Pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies) Eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
Anemia (which can be life-threatening)
Diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
Mitral valve stenosis
Serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
Ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
Hemorrhage and numerous other complications of delivery
Refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
Severe post-partum depression and psychosis
Aren't all those absolutely LOVELY!? But hey, the fetus does "benefit" the mother! By making her feel like she's dying! Yes! That's the spirit!
I have no issue with people wanting babies, but in my opinion, I can't do it again.
>>720046397 For those who think life begins at conception, then tell me this, if, as it's been proven time and again, that alcohol and tobacco use can increase the chances of having a miscarriage, then by very definition, if a pregnant woman has one drink, or smoke one cigarette and has a miscarriage, then she should be charged with child neglect or endangerment or some other form of abuse right? Because she is damaging the life inside?
>>720055207 I don't care about morons that want to ignore the warning signs of life itself in order to use other people as loveless, baby less, masturbation devices. This goes against the human blueprint and the laws of nature itself.
>>720055517 Now thats the real issue here, a lot of religous people dont want their tax money going towards abortion, however tax money will go to things such as public education, transportation, military etc. whether you believe in it or not, so the question is where do we draw the line?
>>720055758 ah i see. your personal twisted idea of what is proper sexuality should be applied unilaterally to all human beings. gotcha.
if it was a "law of nature" that sex was for reproduction only, we would not perform sex for other reasons... we would not have the drive sensations we do. it wouldnt have been advantageous. we would fuck like snails. but we dont.
that is the oldest, most tired ass, and just plain fucking wrong trope people use on this subject.
>>720046397 Abortion is shameful and is overused by whores. Having doctors kill your baby because you don't want to be responsible for your actions is disgusting and I am glad trump will stop funding planned parenthood and stop forcing christians to pay for abortions.
>>720056141 No I have common sense and learn from my environment. If I want to rub one out I will. You won't see me acting like a fake as loser and getting woman drunk so I can use them to get off and then say "oh well my lib tard college has it all under control. We have animalistic instincts that drive up to fuck so that we survive. We also have brains so that we don't fuck ourselves to extinction.
You can do whatever you want. I really don't care because people like you have set this world on a path that it can't possibly come back from. 7 billion and counting.
I think human life is t anything special. Theres really no difference between us and a dog, or a rat. That being said it doesnt matter that you kill a fetus, besides the fact that fetus isnt a person legally.
I also dont like religious nuts telling people what to do. I can use the same logic they do by protesting against not wiping your ass because my god says its a grave sin. Its silly to justify a belief using fairy tales.
>>720046397 Personally, I would never want anyone I was with to get an abortion unless the kid was going to have medical problems that will basically ruin it's and my life.
As far as I'm concerned though, they should be perfectly legal, affordable, and between a doctor and his/her patient only. If a mother, for any reason wants to abort, go for it. I think the less unwanted kids around the better society is as a whole. Better a pile of literal trash then a moral one society has to take care of.
If anything, I think non medical emergency abortions, the doctors should just remove the entire uterus, save us all the trouble of a future child from some random whore.
>>720056571 I'd further the caveat to include late term abortions if the mother's life is in danger or if it was the result of rape or incest. Also, get rid of those unnecessarily long wait periods and mandated reading materials/mandated ultrasounds/etc. since those simply add costs and pain to everyone involved.
>>720056419 oh that sounds good, i'm Canadian and have seen this BS repeat itself over and over, they get on welfare and start a brood thinking they can get more money for every child lulz. stupid vapid cunts go for more gov't support plus now there is child maintenance enforcement. If the father doesn't pay X amount of his earning to the useless whore his wages are garnisheed.
>>720046397 I'm all for it, and for what I understand most other countries are as well. I do agree that at a certain time period (5 months) that it does become inhumane. I know that if my wife had a baby at this point in our lives (trying to survive after college with college loans) we'd have no means to care for it, and there's no way I'd ever give it up for adoption. Once you've had the baby, imo you're responsible for it's care. Also, in my profession I know multiple doctors who are older and talk about the "before times" when abortion was illegal and women literally damaged themselves trying to illegally kill their fetuses. They all say "I'd never want it illegal again after what I'd seen." I think that speaks for itself
>>720057010 oh yeah I am sure they are all "life threatening" considering giving birth is always dangerous and has a small chance of killing the mother. Doesn't change that fact that we are subsidizing an aborting clinic. If giving birth was very likely going to kill the mother then health insurance would cover it. That's what it's for.
>>720056213 Of course, but in a sense they kind of are because if the woman cant afford to support her children she'd turn to the government for support like WIC, Welfare etc. which would potentially cost tax payers more. Its Planned Parenthood that people have a problem with supporting
>>720047258 I'd agree with this. And one reason too is the psychological distress on the woman/man. I do think men should be included in this decision though... My wife has bipolar disorder, and we know that she'd have a 70-80% chance of passing it on to a child... after everything she's been through, it's not worth the risk to her life or the baby's quality of life.
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