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French & German people, what are you honest thoughts on the

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French & German people, what are you honest thoughts on the EU?
I'm a UKfag and fully support Brexit, not because I'm a small minded little Englander but for control and sovereignty. I don't believe countries will stop trading with us, they still need to sell us their goods just as much as we need to sell them ours. The EU does seems to be acting like a rabbit in the headlights at the minute throwing around threats to discourage others from leaving so I wondered what the French & Germans think of the EU? France has got their elections soon, along with Germany and Italy this year I believe as well. Any Germans hear stupid enough to vote in Merkle again? Is the EU in as good a shape as they would like you to believe
Discuss.
Picture related.
>>
Fuck off, and stay the fuck out, have fun with the new trade tariffs.
Also have fun as the City funds and banks leave for Ireland and Luxenbourg.

>inb4 EU need the UK more than the opposite
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>>720016899
cuck detected
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>>720016899
Fuck you. Switzerland also isn't in the eu and things are going much better than anywhere else in europe. Go out and get yourself blown up by some rapefugees. Thats what you get from being in the eu
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Europe was a good thing until liberals.
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>>720017155
Because the richest hide their money in your banks, your faggot country wouldn't survive without them.
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>>720016899
OP here.
There won't be trade tariffs otherwise we'll put trade tariffs on other countries which will negate any tariffs in the first place.
I'm really after what other Europeans think of the current state of the EU, but I can get in to a slanging match if you want.
>>
As a Frenchfag i love uk but i've always felt like they thought they were too good for us. I'm not surprised you left and also a bit disappointed since Europe is a dream of peace of cooperation and you just left at the first difficulties. I'm not mad tho, uk's always been acting this way.

Might be right or wrong. I still think European unity is something to preserve.
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>>720016637
>fully support Brexit,
Haha, fucking moron. Let me elaborate.
> I don't believe countries will stop trading with us
Of course not, but to an extent. Brits will always need goods that they cannot generate themselves, and as long as there's money to be made, it'll happen. But things will be more expensive for you. The bigger problem, however, with you losing access to the EU internal market is that and a significant proportion of the 'goods' will go elsewhere. I say 'goods' because a large part of what is driving your economy is non-material, as in, stock trading and facilitating transactions on the main land. This type of trading will become much more expensive to do in London, so it'll probably move to Frankfurt or Dublin. It's easy to move because essentially it doesn't matter where it happens (because it's digital trading) as long as trading taxes are low.

Aside from that, you'll lose access to all kinds of EU subsidies for science. That may seem unimportant to you, but in the long run it'll significantly stagnate technological development for British companies, because inevitably the science is going to be done elsewhere. You'll lose expertise, because there will be fewer jobs in science and so people will go to the mainland for work. I'm in neuroscience, and some of my friends working in the UK are already making plans to move to Germany or Netherlands.

Most idiotic of all things, immigration (despite what UKIP wants you to believe) is good for economic development in the long run. Especially in countries like Germany (and the UK) where birth counts are low, you need an influx of young people to combat population ageing and keep the buffers of pension funds sustainable.
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>>720017424
>There won't be trade tariffs otherwise we'll put trade tariffs on other countries which will negate any tariffs in the first place.
Yeah. So we'll have trade tariffs both ways. That's inevitable.
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You're begging us not to punish you after what you just did. How long untill you realise you are not above us.
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The subsidies you think the EU so 'generously' gives the UK is just half the 20 billion we give them each year so I don't think we're going to lose out too much there.
As for immigration, we're not saying we want to cut ourselves off but have controlled immigration, something that few people seem to understand.
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>>720018051
Fully support, you got a point.
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>>720018051

I'd agree with everything except the immigration part, the low population problem must be resolved from within, importing large masses of unqualified immigrants wont be supporting any pension funds as their salaries will come from unqualified work which generates low salaries and consequently low deductions.
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>>720016637
Amerifat here. Sounds like a lot of butthurt itt. Seems like they're pissed because you left their circle jerk... I don't understand all this globalization stuff. It benefits in the short term, but can cause problems in the long run, and ends up being like an arms run or a colonization-like clusterfuck.

We wish you good luck out on your own, we can still be friends.
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>>720018938
One of the big arguments seems to be other EU members citizens won't be able to work here. What I think should happen is all the lazy cunts who claim benefits are TOLD that they do the jobs or no FREE MONEY. If we then need an extra 50.000 people we let 50.000 people in to the UK. We don't need to be taking in 300.000 extra people every year.
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>>720018651
>The subsidies you think the EU so 'generously' gives the UK is just half the 20 billion we give them each year so I don't think we're going to lose out too much there.
The British government will compensate scientific institutions for only two years. After that, they lose funding. The government probably could pay for it, but the reality is that they won't.

>As for immigration, we're not saying we want to cut ourselves off but have controlled immigration, something that few people seem to understand.
It's already controlled. You want to make it stricter, which is your right of course, but it'll hurt the economy in the long run.

>>720018938
The reality is that even if you import unqualified workers, their children tend to gain higher salaries due to better education than their parents and consequently contribute more. This is a multi-generation effect, not one that manifests itself immediately. Aside from that, of course it'd be good if birth counts were to go up natively, but that's rather difficult to manage.
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As a frenchfag I can't stop to laugh at britbongs and their damage control.
Yes, the EU is a nasty neo-liberal institution that make our governments its bitches but there is no other way.
UK has lost all its diplomatic influence except their veto at the UN's security council. The strenght UK had was to be able to speak from the EU and as USA's first allies. Now USA under Trump presidency is not interested in NATO nor about what happens in Europe...
UK cucked themselves with that brexit and nothing of value was lost for the EU...
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>>720018938
>large masses of unqualified immigrants
>this /pol/ meme
Most migrants have superior education degrees, are young and willing to work harder than anybody else.
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>>720019099
>I don't understand all this globalization stuff
kinda ironic since your nation pioneered it
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>>720019991
>superior education

Yet the cunts still can't speak English.
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>>720020479
Well then anon does that mean I have to believe in it? I haven't really been a fan of any of its iterations past some small scale agreements.
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>>720019667
Cheese eating surrender monkey, OP here. I think you'll find there is another way, as we proved with our referendum. Saying there is no other way just shows you're still cheese eating surrender monkey, but now you're cucks as well.
So out of interest, who are you voting for in May?
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>>720016637
German here.
I hate the EU since they waste money even more than individual countrys and aren´t even realy democratic.
The €uro was a misstake, we can´t unite countrys with different inflation ratios under one currency.

Free trade on the other hand has its benefits and should stay.
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>>720020848
>Well then anon does that mean I have to believe in it?
It most certainly does not.

The thing is, the EU is in large parts responsible for keeping globalization in check. The people you hear complaining about globalization often in the same breath complain about EU regulations, when it's those regulations that protect small businesses and, ultimately, consumers.
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>>720016637
>Is the EU in as good a shape as they would like you to believe

If anything, the EU will get stronger now that the UK is finally out.
As much as I like the English people, the UK, and specifically England, have been sabotaging the EU for decades, trying as much as possible to turn it into a Thatcherian/Reaganian shithole, which is one of the reasons people are so defiant nowadays about the EU.
Speaking of which, it's fucking hilarious listening to Britons whining about immigrants, when it's the UK itself that opposed giving the EU the tools it needed to strengthen its borders.

Regardless, the EU isn't only about establishing an internal market, it's about ensuring European cultural and geopolitical independence.
I've travelled enough to realise that Europeans have more in common than they think, which is only logical when you know two fucks about the history of Europe.
There's obvious cultural differences, but these are mostly cosmetic and behavioural, Europeans have core values distinguishing them from the rest of the world, including Western places such as the US, and these values are endangered by existing or growing powers such as the US, China, or even India, Russia and Africa in a forseeable future.

Anyone not realising that the EU is the only way to ensure our political and economic freedom and our survival as a culture is an ignorant and narrowminded fool digging Europe's grave while boasting about
>muh nation
>muh independence
>muh great history
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>>720021053
>aren´t even realy democratic
did you vote for the European elections?
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>>720021345
>>
As a german, i want a better eu than this

Has to be More Reich
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>>720018651
>controlled immigration,
>colonizes literally half the planet
>complains about immigration
kek, never change britbongs, never change
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>>720021124
Don't get me wrong, there are undeniable benefits from it, such as that, but there are definitely drawbacks, and oftentimes, when you lift one side of the see saw, the other goes down.
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>>720021345
A+ for that post anon
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>>720021723
>there are benefits
>and there are drawbacks
Congratulations, you've described pretty much anything that ever existed. The point with the EU is that the benefits vastly outweigh the drawbacks.
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>>720019991

I'm far from being a /pol/tard but that's absolutely false.
Working hard probably, being in any way qualified not really. Not to mention language and culture barrier.
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>>720021345
Kek.
Now you've got Merkle turning it in to an Islamic shit hole.
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>>720021897
I'm not that anon, and you're probably right in general, but I'd just wanted to add that the other guy is actually correct when it comes to the current wave of Syrian immigrants. The ones who made it over here were wealthy enough to pay for the trip, and those are typically the best educated people.
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>>720021380
>European elections

That's one of the main problems of the EU, only trolls and national parties left overs go to the European parliament.
No cares about them because their only power is to talk and manage bureaucracies.
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>>720016637
I think EU would have best fared if it would have stayed a fucking trade union, nothing more, nothing less. Free travel all through europe is a nice feature too. Sucks you guys left, I like you, but I can understand, probably would have voted for brexit if I was from the UK.
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>>720021982
Meanwhile, in reality, not even 5% of the European population is Muslim.
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>>720016637
You are a prick.

I'd explain why, but I'd be wasting my time...

Prick.
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>>720021453

That map is complete bullshit
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I think Germany and France should leave the EU as well, because all other EU-countries are trash
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>>720021050
> To vote for presidential elections
> Implying it matters
> Implying people actually still vote
I'm gonna try to make the revolution live again. Last year was good (4 months of weekly riots) and we may have another ride.
We're currently bitch slapping/throwing flour/disrupt rallies of the candidates
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>>720022137
So you comblain about lack of democracy, yet you refused to vote in it's literal democratic election. Think about that for a second.
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>>720021887
Ideally yes, but I don't think it does outweigh all the costs practically.
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>>720021053
>aren´t even realy democratic

The European institutions literally work like any other liberal democracy in Europe.
The European Parliament is elected and voting the law.
The Commission is akin to your own government, it's elaborating laws, and just like our national governments and their ministers, it isn't elected but appointed.
The European Council setting the general direction is made of elected heads of state/government.
Etc.

If anything, the EU is more democratic than most of our countries, along with the aforementioned similar democratic structure, the elaboration of European laws goes through a lenghty process involving several steps asking the opinion and input of the whole european civil society.
The problem is, and that's a real problem, most people don't understand how it works, because they don't give a fuck about it, and/or they are brainwashed by the medias and/or stereotypes about the EU, and/or the whole process isn't clear enough to most people.
So they don't get involved with that process, and whine when things are finally set in motion and goes against what they'd like.

Btw, it's hilarious to hear Britons whine about the lack of democracy in the EU, when half of their own parliament, the House of Lords, is made of unelected aristocrats.
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>>720022400
Whelp, then I'm sorry to say, but you're either an idiot or simply not informed enough.
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>>720016637
scotsman here.

I think we're screwed for a simple logical reason:

the EU can't afford for the UK to be in a better position after Brexit than it is now, with respect to trade and free movement. If we were in a better position every other country would also want to leave, leading to the demise of the EU.

Therefore we have to be in a worse position than we are now, or at best a comparable one.
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>>720016637
You're living on a frickin small island without natural resources. What do you actually want to sell to EU ?
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>>720022101

The ones that came BEFORE the war, yes they were educated and had the foresight to leave in time, the ones that come after the war, packed in with other from Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Africa etc no.
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>>720022539
this guy gets it
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>>720021453
>based hungary
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>>720022209
Thanks for the constructive argument. Not op, but I fucking hate people like you who use emotions and call people unsubstantiated names, and refuse to dialogue. You are the stereotypical libcuck that ruins everything, specifically the American election. Take your opinion and cram it up your ass if all you have to offer is to call them a mean name like the big meanie you think you are. You are the problem with the world, and you make it everyone else's problem, just because mommy and daddy didn't pay you enough attention. Please never post again.
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>>720022684
We can argue about this ad infinitum or you can simply google the statistics. Up to you.
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>>720018051
I am a PhD now software developer. I am considering leaving UK to EU mainland. I am paying taxes, work hard. I was talking on the phone in a shop in talking in Polish on the phone and was spat on. I was always humble and worked as an arsehole for British. I have frankly enough of this shit. So I will work elsewhere. My cousin has moved to Germany working for ESA.
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>>720020735
Like many English people, then?
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>>720022539
But if Sturgeon gets her way you're going to be completely fucked as (if other countries don't veto you joining the EU) you're have to adopt the euro, sign up to the schengen zone and pay in to the EU's budget. How the fuck is that independence?
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>>720021345
>the EU is the only way to ensure our political and economic freedom and our survival as a culture
Fucking this.
It's like europeans/eurosceptics don't realize what the fuck is going on around them and act like we're still living in the 19th century.
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>>720022526
Well then inform me on what I'm missing. I'm happy to change my opinion if you can find a reason that I don't know before you're going to make assumptions about me.
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EU corruptness and anti democracy is out of control
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German fag here. Fuck EU!
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>>720022503
>filename
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>>720021345
Proud of you eurobro.
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>>720022953
Summing up all the benefits of the EU is a little much to ask. Books have been written about that. Perhaps it's best to restrict this to a specific topic of your choosing (e.g. economic growth).
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>>720022579
Liz Truss thinks the cheese we get in Costco will win over the French. Liz Truss is a mongo.
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>>720023014
>EU corruptness
EU countries are literally the least corrupt in the world, out-ranking the US.
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>>720017935
I'd put most of that down to what we (britfags) see as good natured banter.

You Frenchfags are cool by me apart from you seem to close everywhere on a Sunday (I'm talking S France round Aix) so it took me ages to find somewhere with food and beer.

>worth the wait though because I ended up taking the only waitress I could find back to my hotel room later that evening
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As a swiss, it was a good thing. Fuck the eu.

Switzerland is too small to fully exot the eu but our time will cone. Our %exports to eu vs rest of the world are dropping.

10 years time, switzerland will leave eea and rejoin the brits.
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>>720022503
>Btw, it's hilarious to hear Britons whine about the lack of democracy in the EU, when half of their own parliament, the House of Lords, is made of unelected aristocrats.

That's the first thing that come to my mind when I hear british complaining about a lack of democracy in the eu.
They're just fucking retarded and oblivious.
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>>720022901
>I am considering leaving UK to EU mainland.
You're more than welcome here buddy.
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>>720023255
Ask them to name 3 laws the EU has forced on us. Its funny.

I bet they say freedom of movement and some retarded shit about bananas before they talk about all the positive consumer and environmental protection laws that have stopped companies ripping us off and idustry from using our beaches and rivers like a fucking sewer.
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>>720023132
How about the independence of each country. In what way would It allow each country to make its own changes and choices? What if they don't support the multiculturalist agenda, or other things? How do you assure everyone has an equal say, and not one person using it as their empire?
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>>720023432
as a yankee, this always make me cry
aldf org/blog/u-s-lags-far-behind-europe-in-protections-for-farmed-animals
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>>720016637
you can shout sovereignty all you want but I honestly don't believe that your country can invest money as well as the eu does
>>
If it wasn't for all the refugees Europe could still stand proud, but fuck it there is a shitskin muslim street on every corner these days (and has been for many years, just increasing).

I'm really done living in a city that has become a ghetto.
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>>720017306
this
also, swiss people are surprisingly non-retarded, if any other country had referendums on everything like them, they would fuck themselves into the ground
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>>720022933
no, I believe we just want to have what we've got with respect to the EU: no Brexit, keep the pound sterling, stay in single market, keep free movement and leave the uk.

It's independence in that we would choose to go into that arrangement. We don't choose to be slaves to westminster.
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>>720023432

1) free movement
2) cap
3)cfp
4) lorry overtime directive
>>
For those saying about funding being cut for research, for farming subsidy- where does the EU get that money from?

You do realise you pay for that?... How many EU countries put more in than they get out, for that matter.
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>>720017211
I think you're talking about a different united europe
>kinda like the square design
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>>720023752
The EU doesn't invest money, if gives the UK back some of the money we give it for 'membership'...
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>>720017424
>>720018266
trade tariffs don't cancel each other out, they lead to less trade
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>>720023836

>keep pound

Fucking idiot. You can't have a common currency without political union. You need fiscal union. In your situation Scotland's interest rates would be set by England. That's why the EU is fucking up. They have no fiscal union so southern European will be fucked.

Get your head out of Sturgeon's arse for a second. Scottish independence is a retarded idea. And I am Scottish. It is based 100% on bullshit and lies.
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>>720023938
>>720016637
Same shit, different ass... Oh wait, not it isn't. It's the same asshole too!
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>>720017155
>Switzerland
>things are going much better than anywhere else in europe
>literally draining european wealth through its opaque banking system favouring tax evasion
>things work well for us
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>>720016637
My honest thoughts is that Churchill would be ashamed of the UK right now.
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>>720018051
since you're a scientist, do you think the uk would invest in science as the eu does today or do you believe they'd invest more/less?

also
>immigration
the uk already had complete border controls except for eu citizens (romanians, bulgarians,...), the thing is that, for a country to join the eu, it must be unanimously approved so, if brits really trust their gov. so much, they signed off on poor eastern european countries joining the union.
>>
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>>720023878
>4) lorry overtime directive

HO MY GOD THE HUMILIATION OF IT ALL!!!!!!
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>>720023836
Like I said, IF you leave the UK you will only be able to join the EU if you accept free movement, accept the euro and pay in to the EU's budget. You don't want to be slave to Westminster yet you want to be ruled by Brussels...
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>>720024415

No. He would be proud. He was the leader of a fucking empire, not a lapdog for Germany.

Stop sucking eu cock and balls.
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>>720018407
have you seen them leave yet?
trust me, they know they're fucked
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>>720024526
They will, they're too proud not to.
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>>720022503
That kind of statistics are what made me proud to be european.
The UK wants to leave? Good riddance.
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>>720023515
This, I suppose, comes down to a fundamental disagreement on what democracy entails.
>the independence of each country
Each country has a say that is proportional to their share in the seats in the European parliament. Small parties of individual states form coalitions with like-minded parties from other nations, so that ultimately, the parliament is a pretty accurate reflection of the political views that the citizens of individual member states hold. This is similar to US congress, where individual states contribute congressmen.
>In what way would It allow each country to make its own changes and choices?
Pretty much the way it is now. Particular economic problems that aren't easily regulated properly by individual states (such as tragedy of the common phenomena, think over fishing) are regulated at the EU level. Individual freedom of nation states should never have priority over the common good.
>What if they don't support the multiculturalist agenda
Countries are pretty much free to set their own immigration policy from countries outside of the EU. The current crisis is called a crisis for a reason, it is a specific set of exceptional circumstances that require us to rethink how we handle these things.
>How do you assure everyone has an equal say, and not one person using it as their empire?
Ironically, this is why the EU was founded. It was to ensure that one nation could never rise to take control of Europe ever again. It's doing that job extraordinarily well, and we should value that.
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>>720024489

For me it is. My job is practically taken over by polish people. I can work more but i am not allowed to.

In poland nobody gives a fuck and ignores it. Sorry that i voted to better my job and earn more money.


You can stick your eu up your arse
>>
>>720019099
>It benefits in the short term, but can cause problems in the long run
elaborate?
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>>720024133
you most certainly do not need a fiscal union:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/03/can-scotland-be-independent-sterling

"Kosovo is not a member of the eurozone but uses the euro. It is legal tender but the country is not even a member of the EU and has no formal currency agreements with the European Central Bank (ECB) and other European institutions."

"The free-market thinktank cites the example of Panama and other Latin American countries that use the dollar as proof that the informal use of another country’s currency “can foster a healthy financial system and economy”."

You're the fucking idiot, lapping up what your superiors tell you without question. You good little drone.
>>
>>720024467
>since you're a scientist, do you think the uk would invest in science as the eu does today or do you believe they'd invest more/less?
They'd probably invest about the same, but they'll lose the EU part of the funding, which is substantial. They've already announced to only compensate scientific institutions for two years.
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>>720019254
there are plenty of unqualified brits on benefits, the only thing the eu forces you to do is treat eu citizens the same way you treat you own
your solution is nationalism, admit it and be proud
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>>720022933
> But if Sturgeon gets her way you're going to be completely fucked as (if other countries don't veto you joining the EU) you're have to adopt the euro, sign up to the schengen zone and pay in to the EU's budget. How the fuck is that independence?

How the fuck is that independence when your own little county have to submit to a national parliament to strenghten your position and ensure your survival?
In case you haven't noticed, we're living in a globalised world, and the european way of life is threatened by global powers.
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>>720024611
People can come up with statistics to prove anything Kent. 40% of all people know that.
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>>720022684
"the war" you're talking about is not a single event on a determined location with an equilibrium of the force between beligerants...
People move to another continent at the moment they're forced to.
Yes the wealthy people from Alepo moved first, years ago, but what about people from Damascus, where the situation is nowhere near the same? Anyway you don't see these people because they speak english, have relations, jobs and they're not sleeping in the streets.
Then you have all the middle class (engineers, doctors, lawyers, electricians, students...) who flee'd to Europe second and they're the one you see asking for refugee status and living in the emergency housing centers for migrants.
The poorest are stuck in Turkey/Hungary/Greece and you won't see them reach Germany/France/UK/Sweden. That's why you have a mostly QUALIFIED young workforce that will take any job offered, paying taxes and stimulating growth, sustaining our pension system (especially in France and Germany).
But yeah it's easier for you to believe they're some underclass proletariat here for free shiiiet and rape because the {{{{{ jews }}}}}} let them in for forced multiracial breeding, /pol/ack
>>
>>720019667
love the map
>should say location of sandnigger deposits
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>>720024683
Thanks for your insight anon.
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>>720021050
>I think you'll find there is another way
show us the way then, stop messing about and leave already
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>>720022503
>mfw actual quality of life in the US is the same as in Poland
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>>720024765

So you want your currency controlled by an external currency? Are you fucking retarded? I gusss so when you use fucking KOSOVO as your example. That shithole? Is that what shite Sturgeon has been filling your brains with? Go look at Greece and Spain, you mong.

Better yet go read an economics textbook.
>>
>>720021053
either stupid copypasta or just stupid
great grammar/spelling too btw
>>
>>720021345
>Anyone not realising that the EU is the only way to ensure our political and economic freedom and our survival as a culture is an ignorant and narrowminded fool digging Europe's grave while boasting about
we should hang out
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>>720024956
There were a lot of engineers, doctors, lawyers, electricians, students that came to Europe last year then. All I saw on the news was shit loads of black 20-40 year old men on boats.
>>
>>720024687

So Poles are the culprits not the inefficiency of local companies in providing more jobs.
Also, poles and pole speaking make 1% of the UK population, they must have super powers to be able to take on all the jobs..
>>
>>720024683
Personally I would like it if this system was smaller. Too many ways to hurt other uninvolved countries within the eu, too close to the ally system that ended up with ww2. I also dislike how childlike they deal with other countries leaving, and so on. It just looks bad, and I think it wasn't the way to handle it. That was helpful and it definitely influenced my views however. Thanks for not being an asshole anon
>>
>>720021488
agreed, but under the original inventors of fascism

>am pizzafag
>>
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>>720024873
>>720024873
>come up with statistics
>literally statistics from the OECD, IMF, Fed, US bureau of census, UN, world bank, etc.
>come up with statistics
>>
>>720024690
Forced Culture blending, inevitable war, dependency can cause issues, it's exclusive nature can cause others to dislike it, ect.
>>
>>720025259
Maybe if their German, English is their second language you dumb fuck...
>>
>>720022189
most (not all) of the goals/laws of the eu are to harmonize the internal market for easier trade (standardisation if you will)
>>
>>720022199
that's still waaaay too much
>>
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>>720025249
That's the american dream for you.
Behind the shiny bullshit, the US have one of the highest poverty rate of the developed countries.
Texas and California are the wealthiest US states, combining them gives the GDP and population of France, but with double the poverty rate.
>USA USA USA
>>
>>720022213
>netherlands
trash
>italy
trash
>sweden, finland
trash
>poland
trash
>belgium
trash

should i go on?
>>
>>720025395

You have fuck all clue about lorry driving. I go to france and germany from london. Poles risk the fines because they are poor as shit and never pay when they get caught. To get a lorry driving license in poland is a joke. You can ride a bike and pass. In the uk it costs up to 5 grand.

Open borders destroyed my job.
>>
>>720025581
That was a line from the Simpsons so I was slightly taking the piss, my bad it went over your head.
>>
>>720021053
>we can´t unite countrys with different inflation ratios under one currency
Actually we can, Germany did this several times, even in peace.

It just needs to go for a real union, which was the course until some faggots dropped the ball because of "muh control" - which was never theirs to begin with.
Leaving would be understandable if they regained direct control over something, but all they got was losing checks on their governments.

Union is the course as it has always been. It either comes with annexion oder with unity. If you leave the unity way while not able to annex shit, you'll lose everything. Every country in the EU hopes that upon leaving, they get the switzerland treatment. Military safety and economy prosperity by being embedded in a supranational system of allies, but if this system fails and everyone is up to oneself again, we're royally fucked.
>>
>>720025858
My bad then.
>>
>>720022503
yeah but it's inconvenient when arguing to leave
>>
>>720025858
>>720025965
I'm kinda drunk right now.
>>
>>720025259
English is my second language...
>>
>>720022901
good man, come to the mainland
>>
>>720024956

See with that sort of language you're just the same as the idiots on /pol/..just be less edgy and look at things as they are.

Most immigrants from that region ARE NOT qualified, just deal with it, a friend of mine worked on an immigrant triage in Salzburg and he said most of them barely spoke English and their skills were doubtful at best.

Example, one accountant from Damascus didn't even knew how to work an excel sheet let alone using accounting software, not to mention his English was part loose phrases, part sign language. He'd require formation from the ground up in order to get a job as assistant accountant.
>>
>>720023878
1. I was right. You'd say it.
2. You surprise me
3. Not sure that laws preventing overfishing are bad but each to their own.
4. Restricting people who are in control of 20 ton lorries from working all hours? I'm obviously missing your point.
>>
>>720022933
>How the fuck is that independence?
it's not, it's better
>>
>>720025386
How do you recognize a syrian engineer from an irakian coal miner when they're sleeping in the same migrant center on their way to Germany?

>I only see black/brown people on boats
>They're not white
>So they can't have had a good job / degrees / social position before leaving
>They are rapefugees! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
autism
>>
>>720023980
The European Development Fund gives money to areas and projects that need it. The UK Government gives money to those areas that offer it the greatest political benefit.
>>
>>720016637
For control and sovereignty?
UK's fairly irrelevant. It's still pumped up with old money, but that won't be the case when this brexit thing of yours goes through. I do support brexit but for different reasons than you do. You see UK has a bad habbit of sabotaging EU and its members time after time, and overall trying to undermine wellbeing of others. Whatever you may think of yourself in your small inbred circles, I assure you it's delusional. As for now UK is gentem non grata. You've proven that you can't be a team player and you proved that you can't be trusted, and now you're trying to pull off a stupid stunt. We don't want to do business with you anymore. Please leave.

As for the necessarity of EU; yes, I think EU is necessary to make irrelevant countries (like UK) relevant in the world politics and economics. It has to be a power which can compete against other powers. Would I do some structural changes to it? Yes, but I wouldn't demolish and rebuild it.
>>
>>720023014
the eu itself is probably the least corrupt government in the world (mainly because it's always accused of being shit)
>>
>>720023038
no, Fuck YOU
>>
>>720025847

..So all the lorry driver in England are poles? because that sounds strange
>>
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>>720024161
i know you're gonna say edited but, just in case you're a human...
>>
>>720026181

My uncle was paid to burn his boat. Seriously. Cfp ruined him.

And read my posts above for the lorry thing. I used to make 40 k a yr, now i make 20.
>>
>>720022503
>it's hilarious to hear Britons whine about the lack of democracy in the EU, when half of their own parliament, the House of Lords, is made of unelected aristocrats.
This isn't getting enough attention.
Legit question English people, how comes you complain about a fantasied lack of democracy in the european union, when you're partly governed by an unelected caste?
>>
>>720025435
Sure, no problem. Something that we can both agree on, I think, is that the system isn't perfect. But in my opinion, the best way to deal with that is to improve it, and not to discard the system altogether.
>>
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>>720024520
where's the empire then?
>>
>>720026464

Pretty much. Poles work in the uk for more money and then send it home. Uk minimum wage is billions for the average pole
>>
>>720024600
sure, but they're scrambling like little bitches, it's quite hilarious actually

it wouldn't take long to press the button
>>
>>720026180
That's not me saying this, that's actual statistics from EU/government agencies and NGOs...
And we all have a friend who knows a migrant who's on welfare and has raped two underaged jew girls in the ass on the day for the shoah memory while screming allah akbar... /pol/tard
>>
>>720025847
So without open boarders Euopean lorry drivers couldn't drive across the continent but you could?

Do you think that the UK Government making it so expensive faor haulage firms to register trucks in the UK made companies think 'fuck it, we'll just do the whole shit from the continent'

Do you think UK consumers having an ever growing lust for cheaper goods means that logistics firms get squeezed on things liek wages?
>>
>>720025251
Our currency is already controlled by an external entity: the BANK OF ENGLAND. As well as Kosovo I also used other examples.

Greece and Spain use the Euro. Totally different situation you massive spastic.

You've yet to come up with a coherent argument why this is not economically possible. Yes it'll be tough, and things will be hard, but it's a much better situation than the one we're heading to now for reasons stated in my original post.

I'm assuming you're a Rangers fan.
>>
>>720024804
since the uk is a net contributor, they would have more money on hand (if the gov. budget didn't change), my question was, if that money didn't go through the eu, do you think it would be spent just as well/better/worse?
>>
>>720026714
I'm still not seeing how limiting the hours a person can drive a 20 ton lorry is a bag thing.
>>
>>720016637
We started as tribes.
We evolved into small kingdoms.
We transformed into nations and local empires.
The next logical step is continental unification in a globalized world.
It's just a matter of survival.

I've travelled for about 10 years around the globe for my work, and whenever I'm back in europe, I do feel at home, despite the supposed cultural differences.
>>
>>720024520
>literally still living in the 19th century
>>
>>720027117
It would be a tax cut for the rich. Like when we cut payments to the disabled to save money and at the same time gave half the savings to people earning over £40,000 per year a tax cut.
>>
>>720027144
>tfw real life is Clash of Clans
>>
>>720026948

Without open borders, low skilled people couldnt take my job. Poles go into the uk easy, do my job and send money back home. They literally took my job. And like i said, polish lorry licenses are a complete joke. A kid can get them.

If we controlled our borders, we wouldn't let millions of poles in taking low skilled jobs.

I had a shit upbringing and never did well thanks to my abusive family. This was my job. I earned decent money. Now my wages have halfed. And thousands like me suffered. But fuck the uneducates raycis brexshitters, amirite?
>>
>>720025623
>Forced Culture blending
a fear of mine too but you don't require immigration for globalization

>inevitable war
over resources?
with our current superpowers and nukes?
i see it as highly unlikely

>dependency can cause issues
but if everyone is dependent on everyone, noone will cut off trade, that's why we need the eu, you can cut off trade with the netherlands if they piss you off but you can't just cut off ties with an 18T$ economy
>>
>>720016637
Do you even realise that huge amounts of waste/garbage is getting exported out of your island ? I don't like the eu either.. Shitfest but it has alot of positive things despite the corrupt money grabbing assholes mostly from the eastern country's trying to abuse the shit out of the system...

The uk obviously handicapped themselves out of pride. Time will tell how bad you will decline under your pride and 'sovereignty'
>>
>>720025635
nono, you can see that it's either intentionally faggy or too quickly typed => not worth debating
>>
>>720027358
retrain for a different job then?
>>
>>720027358
How many hours a week were you working to get £40,000 a year and how long ago was that?
>>
>>720027117
I'm still not sure what you're asking. If I paraphrase, what you're asking is: is the UK better off spending the money that was destined for the EU, on their own economy? No.

The term 'net contributor' only takes into account how much a nation pays in EU fees versus how much funds it gets back directly. Indirect effects, for instance through access to the internal EU market, aren't taken into account. Every single EU member state makes money through that mechanism, more than they contribute to the EU. The net effect is that the UK will have less to spend, all things considered.
>>
>>720026105
that was still very shitty, even if you learnt it yesterday
as for your points, the eu is more democratic than most eu govs., countries must meet certain standards (including for inflation) to join the euro and where is it that the eu wastes its frankly tiny budget? only thing i can think of is rural development, one of the highest payoff longterm strategies they have and something short-sighted governments would never do
>>
>>720027358
>>720027657
And either way it still only ticks point 1 that I predicted would be said. So your point 4 about limiting working hours is still hugely wrong.
>>
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>>720021345
Hear hear
>>
>>720016637
Hey mate, fellow Brit.

With your concerns for control and sovereignty, I'm curious on your thoughts about the House of Lords. I appreciate the monarchy is largely irrelevant within the government, but the House of Lords are unelected and make actual decisions that effect us. Do you believe the HoL should be abolished?
>>
>>720027043

No you dickhead. I never said it was impossible, I said it was shit. Why would anyone want interest rates set by a country they want independence from? England could intentionally cause a recession in Scotland and we would not be able to do anything about it. OUR ECONOMIC POLICY WOULD BE DICTATED STRAIGHT FROM ENGLAND YOU MUG. Kosovo is a shithole, no use talking about them.

Oh and Spain's youth unemploymebt is 40% and Greece has a 72% negative view on the EU. Good examples.

Like I said, you have no idea about economics. Keep sucking Sturgeons tits though.

And idgaf about football.
>>
>>720027286
that's what i thought, thanks
>>
>>720027806
If you are going to judge someone speaking English as a second language at least have the courtesy not to be a lazy fucking cunt with your own lack of punctuation.
>>
>>720027144
thread/
>>
>>720021050
>Cheese eating surrender monkey

cant barrage the Farage
>>
>>720027358
>I had a shit upbringing and never did well thanks to my abusive family.
Now that you're free of your family it's the right time to improve yourself, ans top acting like a fucking victim.
> But fuck the uneducates raycis brexshitters, amirite?
Correct. Cry me a fucking river, you did this to yourself.
>>
>>720027117
net contribution does not mean you have more left to spend if you drop it. The EU is not a subscription that you pay with a single check over your net contribution. You use the EU institutions to distribute the money, use partnerships to get discounts and get for instance cheaper products by subsidies.

There is so much connect over the free market, that it is even possible you have less money left afterwards.

Thats why this is a very interesting experiment because those calculations have never been made before, and it's good that the UK got out the hard way. So we all will know.
>>
>>720027520

I was going to but we are leaving so i have hope.

>>720027657

I worked like 12 hours a day before, now i can only do 9.
>>
>>720021345
I didn't realize France held so many territories around the globe, holy shit
>>
>>720017935

UK joined when it was only a trade organisation. They don't want to be a part of any United States of Europe which let's face it, either the EU collapses or it becomes a country.
>>
>>720027787
that's exactly it, ignoring indirect effects:
>uk leaves
>uk gets x million pounds more in the budget that previously went through the eu to finance uk projects
>uk also gets y million pounds that went to other countries

would(will) the uk invest its x+y million pounds better or worse than the eu did for it
>>
>>720026180
>look at things as they are
>a friend of mine said
Jesus dude, don't be a lazy cunt and just google the stats. It's there for you to find.
>>
>>720027520
more difficult than blaming foreigners.
>>
>>720028072

Nope. My job was stolen because of the eu. Not because i didnt work hard enough. It is their fault for fucking me over. The UK's initial rules were good enough for me.

Only 1 politician addressed this and it was nigel farage. Been waiting for a man like him to start talking about this. Thanks nigel!!
>>
As a Canadian I can't help but laugh at how shitty Europe has become. Good on you UK for bailing from their flaming mess
>>
>>720026939

From the official statistics:

>Education Level
Since 43 percent of the Syrian refugees are under the age of 14, and 56 percent are under 20, Syrian refugees tend to be less educated. 9.4 percent have a technical, university, college, or graduate school level of education. Since the refugee flow skews young, this group should become more educated as they age.

Basically 9.4% have Syrian level education..

>and has raped two underaged jew girls in the ass on the day for the shoah memory while screming allah akbar... /pol/tard

You're just are retarded as the average /pol/tard but on the opposite direction..
>>
>>720028301
>would(will) the uk invest its x+y million pounds better or worse than the eu did for it
Better, probably, since now it's under the UK's control and there's less bureaucracy to deal with. But the equation is missing the z variable, which is bigger than x and y combined.
>>
>>720027997
I apologise. In truth, I only ignore punctuation and fail to optimally structure my sentences due to the time constraints placed upon me by the rapidity of new posts appearing in this thread, all of which I would like to read.

OR

fuck off, throw a quality insult back and answer the fucking points
>>
We're ganna send all fucking migrants to Germany and merkel's office.

Alleen Nederlanders in Nederland kut! Godverdomme!
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxWbhEdOtI
>>
>>720028409
It was them lazy immigrants that don't speak a word of english yet somehow took your job, was it? If your job can be done by a lazy, illiterate immigrant then you're a chuggin woof-bangaler, if you know what I mean >;)
>>
>>720028409
>My job was stolen because of the eu. It is their fault for fucking me over.
kek, you can't make this shit up.
>>
And no one has yet talked about radical islam, mass rapes in berlin and sweden. Good job eu, fucking up our demographics forever.

Inb4 white supremacy. Fuck that shit. Why cant i live in europe which emphasises integration and not 2000000 nigerians claiming welfare?
>>
>>720027918
>>england could intentionally cause a recession

Stopped reading at that point.

Think it's past your bedtime kid. Night night.
>>
>>720028148
i know, i meant a hypothetical scenario ignoring all other changes in the economy

>got out
they're taking their fucking time though
>>
>>720028507
wtf is z?
x and y were numbers, not variables
>>
>>720028409
Your job was stolen because it's worthless if less qualified people than you can do it cheaper.

It's as simple as that.
Nigel won you over with "you don't have to change and it isn't your fault"
>>
>>720028576

Yes i was poor. I accept i am dumb. Like i said i had a shit childhood. How am i meant to do better when poles take my work? I am 35, i have no money to get more qualifications. I can barely do maths.

Is that an excise to take my job? To halve my wages?
>>
>>720016637
the french are pretty much albaniers and north africans by now, the germans lost all their real men in ww2.
>>
>>720028641

Bye Nicola. Remember to give Alex a quick blowie before bed.
>>
>>720028414
>9.4 percent have a technical, university, college, or graduate school level of education
kek, you do realize that this is higher than the European average, right?
>>
>>720028234
France has the world largest maritime domain iirc
>>
>>720027870
The House of Lords is elected by either the Government or an independent body. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there might not be any back handers helping people get in, however it's our Government and political system that gets them in. I didn't vote for Junker, did you?
>>
>>720028749
Kek, a variable denotes a number.

x = money the UK got from the EU
y = money the UK didn't get back but had to pay to the EU instead
z = the money the UK made through access the the EU internal market, which they'll lose after Brexit

x < y < z
>>
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>>720019254
But you have benefits pullers breeding like rabbits in the country itself.
>>
>>720016637
Germanfag here.

The EU should have never become more than a/the European Economic Community. A region of (tax) free trade.
No common currency, no open borders and no fucking political decisions coming from Brussels.

I'm not saying this because of weird nationalistic thoughts or looking down at other countries. It was and still is just a stupid idea to force countries that are so different into a community. With so much differences in culture, politics and economics it was doomed to fail and will do so.

Oh and before you start argue that the EU is a good thing so there will never be a war in Europe again, you, I and everyone knows that wouldn't happen anyway. Todays world is controlled by companies, commerce and money.

However, something I'm also tired of is this Merkel bashing everywhere. No, I'm not a fan of hers but what are the alternatives? Right, there are none. Just look at the candidates of the other big political parties. They are a complete joke.
And if you're honest, it doesn't matter who is on top of a country in todays world. They are all controlled by lobbyists, big companies and the media. Not to mention, are there any good leaders out there? Anywhere? I couldn't name one.
>>
>>720028294
It was clear from the beginning where the European Community was heading to. At that time economy was the only step available to get started.
The UK was well aware of it, but it all changed when Thatcher rose to office and started to undermine the whole process.
>>
>>720028985
did you vote for cameron or may?
it's the same fucking thing (almost)
you vote for people who know what they're doing who then vote for a leader
>>
>>720016637
Europe is a necessity for us to hold and stand stro.g vs the world, we must unite and build a stronger identity than just our nation.
We must identify as citizens of the european union, hell the union will become strong as fuck in a couple of decades or after a major world war.
Proud to be a european union member, and id my country France tries to leave i will fucking do anything to stop it
>>
>>720019991
Sweden, 67% pulls benefits.
>>
>>720029118
Bingo. Someone fucking gets it.
>>
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>>720019991
>superior education degrees,
>>
>>720029118
>It was and still is just a stupid idea to force countries that are so different into a community
kek, this coming from a german sounds odd
>>
>>720021380
European elections, ppl dont vote for the european shit at all, havent you watched nigels vid.
>>
>>720029096
>a variable denotes a number
in computing, yes, in everyday speech it's more likely to mean something that affects a certain situation, also vars can be arrays, strings and whatever else you want

>z >> x,y
i know, i specifically ignored z to see how much britfags trust their gov. to spend the money better than the eu did (even if they have more (but they'll have less, i know))
>>
>>720028847
£20,000 is more than a hell of a lot of people in the UK earn. Like 99% of people who work in service or retail industries.
>>
>>720028926

>Educational attainment levels of the population have improved significantly over the last thirty years. In 2015, 79.1 % of people aged 25–54 in the EU-28 had at least attained an upper secondary level of education, compared with 62.6 % of those aged 55–74. Those with tertiary educational attainment amounted to 32.6 % of those aged 25–54 and 20 % of those aged 55–74

Stop pretending you're smart, when you're not.
>>
>>720029398
That's exactly the problem you dumb cunt. Don't complain about lack of democracy if you don't use your democratic rights.
>>
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>>720021887
no it doesnt, look at the fucking state of europe.

iq is dropping income is dropping welfare drops crimes way up costs are absurdly gone up
>>
>>720028847
Hey man, as one Brit to another, do you want me to teach you maths? The education system in this country is utter shit, you'll probably be pretty decent at it
>>
>>720029456
>i specifically ignored z to see how much britfags trust their gov
But I'm not even a britbong
>>
>>720028847
In the last decades, the UK have been in the forefront to break down social and workers rights in the name of free market and the invisible hand of capitalism, and heavily influenced european legislation in that way.
Most continental europeans don't agree with that kind of neoliberal ideology, but your own country fought tooth and nails to make it real.
Just saying.
>>
>>720029463

Have 2 kids and a wife mate. 20k is not much. I know people on benefits earning the same.
>>
>>720022199
in reality its 7% and its a total of 20% of non European.
Not having a isolated population group means extinction.
>>
>>720029118
>The EU should have never become more than a/the European Economic Community. A region of (tax) free trade.
No common currency, no open borders and no fucking political decisions coming from Brussels.

the purpose of eu legislation is to steer the whole market as one and harmonise regulations both of which massively help free trade

also, it's trade that prevents war in europe
>>
>>720028985
Don't get me wrong, I voted leave too, I just feel pretty strongly about the HoL and always wonder if other leave voters are the same. I was hoping there'd be a push for reforms after the leave vote, but it's disappointing that there haven't been any yet, especially given how widely criticised Junker and the EU politicians were for being undemocratic.
>>
All in all never forget Rothschild the juds!!!!!!!!
>>
>>720029617

Thanks for the offer but I'm pinning my hopes on brexit raising my wages. I just want my job back with decent wages. Ever year since 2006 when blair opened the door, my wages plummeted. I have to hope.
>>
>>720029607
>iq is dropping
No it isn't, google the Flynn effect.
>income is dropping
Due to the economic crisis, yes. Incomes are rising more quickly than inflation at the moment, however.
>crimes way up
Crime is steadily going down and has been for decades. Google the stats before contradicting that fact.
>costs are absurdly gone up
Are you kidding me? Costs are going up at a historically slow pace, in fact we almost have deflation at this point.
>>
>>720029634
question wasn't mean for you then, still what do you think?

because i wouldn't trust any eu gov. to invest as much in rural development which i think is a great long term strategy. (govs tend to look short-term)
>>
>>720022503
2000`s 2009 i dont want to be that guy, but allot has changed in the past 5 years. europe has gone bankrupt pension funds are rolled up.
>>
>>720029818
>Junker and the EU politicians were for being undemocratic
See >>720022503
>>
>>720029858
Sure thing, man, but it doesn't hurt to have a backup plan, just in case things don't pan out.

No charge, no strings attached, I'm just interested in helping a fellow Brit out.
>>
>>720028414
Thank you for proving my point.
Also, pic related from the same site
>>720029302
Sources: American Community Survey, 2014, 1-Year Sample, S0501 and S0201
>>
>>720030001
agreed but your quads game is weak
>>
>>720025495
You wrre a good allied back then, and a honorble enemy the war b4
>>
>>720029975
Don't quote me on this but I think the point of that chart is to point out how lagging behind europe the US are
>>
>>720030030
>bachelors
syrians > americans
>graduate
syrians > americans
>some college
americans > syrians

what?
>>
>>720022821
dif here. anon either way they are still lower iq and the paki md i got knows less about the human body then i with a high school biology diploma
>>
>>720029607
>hurrdurr nignogs be coming

I can't hear that whining anymore. We are a fucking 510 Million people union and have exactly how many immigrants coming in?
Exactly. A wet fart. Yet it's all over the (alternative) media because it stinks in the fine noses of some idiots. Fucking half of Africa needed to come here to even outnumber us.

Yes the immigration crisis is a problem to solve. That's why it's called a crisis. If the people turn retarded over something so miniscule like some foreigners, how fit are they for worse to come?
>>
>>720030073
ww1 is irrelevant but thanks
point is, we should ally under Salvini and whoever you pick to lead the 4th reich and make europe great again
>>
>>720029740
>in reality its 7%
No, it's less than 5% dumb shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

Look at census stats.
>>
>>720022942
dude ikr i have email correspondence with some of the parties where they state they want to force other countries to take in more asylum seekers instead of sacking up and close all the fucking borders.

They are effectively leveraging rape.
>>
>>720030244
>anon either way they are still lower iq
jesus fucking christ the irony in that post is enough to forge a submarine out of
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