>A plane so flimsy the wings were ripped off by lightpoles proceeded to slam through three rings of strike hardened steel and concrete all while not being caught on a single video camera in one of the most surveilled buildings in the world.
Apparently those giant hardened slugs vaporized into thin air as well, while only the fuselage itself punched a neat, round hole through impossibly hard walls. After which it vaporized with nary a trace as well.
>>720003937 engines do not equal wings. a wings primary function is the generate lift. it's primary structure would be 1 or more spar with everything else being mainly formers if engine are mounted to the spars, then the load required on the spar(s) is changed.
>>720004715 >Not knowing that over a quarter million people were in on the Manhattan project while fewer than 50 actually knew what the fuck was going on.
>>720004727 A 757 going full speed in mid-air couldn't make its way through a mostly void skyscraper. To fly a few feet off the ground without skipping and tearing itself apart, they would have to drop the speed to next to nothing
>>720003254 Saudi Arabia did it op, they are pissed about private business from the west coming into SA and taking back their petrodollars. So they took out the main symbols of the petrodollar and its defence. Wahabbism man.
I think the main problem is that at this point 9/11 has become as integral part of republican worldview as the birth of Jesus. Whatever logical inconsistencies and proof against it there might be, the alternative to believing it would be so unthinkable that it's better to declare even suggesting otherwise a heresy.
>>720005394 not quite as stupid as people that think 12 arabs in a cave breached a multi-billion dollar security apparatus, overpowering the might of the airforce, the combat trained pilots on board the planes, as well as our cybersecurity provisions
>>720005090 sort of wrong. Thing is, people only can accept the truth if there is an arab face behind it pulling the strings. Arabs are too stupid to do shit like this on their own
As we have learned time and time again there was HUGE Saudi involvement, and a EVEN BIGGER effort to keep that under wraps by our own government? Why? Because they were in on it and needed an excuse to terraform the middle east
This. Shoving evidence to their faces is just fighting against windmills when they simply choose not to believe it. It's something I learned a long time ago, and which I found completely depressing about even trying to argue.
Here's an old flash about the pentagon strike. It's been blamed for everything from music choises to graphics, but no one one has yet to actually adress the information itself: http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm
Everyone seems to forget the massive fear campaign that the government put on after 9/11. Anyone remember those "anthrax" parcels that were being posted for a few months, then suddenly stopped forever after we went to war. Funny that since nobody was caught, you'd think the perpetrators would expand their operations for, you know, jihad?? The whole thing stank from start to finish
>>720007221 >chooses one unexplained aspect of one frame of one video as evidence of a vast conspiracy. >dismisses the huge swathes of images, data and testimony contradicting his conspiritard viewpoint
And we're the ones ignoring evidence. Good job retard.
>>720008193 wow, its almost as if a Radar can tell when a plane is going off course, especially when it does a complete loop and starts heading to a complete different location. And its almost as if we have a whole air force capable of intercepting
So how is being autistic? Judging by talking to you, it doesnt seem that cool.
Not saying it's not a conspiracy, but there is a tremendous amount of energy in a high-speed impact such as this. Seems to me that comparing the strength and hardness of the materials involved is a bit naive. When dealing with extreme and complicated cases such as this, only a complete ballistic analysis could possibly answer what would happen. I'm sure a terminal ballistics or exlosives expert could answer better what happens when a shockwave ripples through brittle material such as concrete and tensile material such as aviation aluminium alloy.
>>720008438 >dozens of planes on a radar screen and only 30 minutes from hijack to impact >magic radar can read intentions and issue orders to shoot down civilian aircraft Good job magic radar you saved the day again.
>well how will the control tower know that they have actually been hijacked and the pilots arent playing a prank without setting up constant visual communication and people shouting into the radio "WE ARE TERRORISTS" >radars are so useless, like why do we even havvve them
>>720009337 before the 9.11, it wasn't policy to immediately scramble to intercept. cheney made the right call until the facts became clear that this was a terrorist event and not an airplane in distress.
an airplane going lost comm and turning back is unusual, but before 9.11 not suspicious.
I was looking forward to seeing some kind of explanation on how you thought the consiparcy theorists had cognitive dissonance. Luckily I was prepared for it being just another case of meaningless name calling so I wasn't technically disappointed either.
>>720009605 What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Engine's are mounted on pylons which connect to the wings, pylons are the strongest part of an airplane but they will rip off the wings easy, thats why most of the times you find the engine WITH the pylon or the pylon and thrust reversers together while the engines rips out (only like 6 titanium bolts hold it on to the pylon)
Right, so at what point were you refuting a central point of the theory? And could you at least try to tone down the ad hominems as they're making it hard to see when you're actually trying to say something intelligent.
>And how many were shot down? And how many had entirely innocent explanations?
Irrelevant to the fact that on that day no aircraft was even scrambled in the first place.
>They just didn't have the time (30 minutes in the case of flight 11) to make a decision.
They couldn't because they weren't even in the air. Because of a direct order from vice president Dick Cheney himself, who never before had anything to do with any aircraft scrambling whatsoever.
>Are you angry because no one believes your retarded theories or because you secretly know they are retarded but you're in too deep?
No, I'm sad that some people are afraid to accept unpleasant truths so they choose to believe comforting lies instead. Out of curiosity, what would you do if 9/11 turned out to be an inside job? How would that change your worldview? How would you deal with it?
Let's presume that it's all a massive conspiracy and the U.S. government DID in fact attack the Pentagon and destroyed the WTC killing thousands of its own citizens in the process.
To what end? Legitimizing future wars, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq?
The U.S. previously hadn't exactly been a wallflower when it came to dealing with countries it considered to be its enemy, so why the massive conspiracy to legitimize it? Surely there was an easier way.
Then weigh this against the risk of the 'plot' being discovered and the subsequent consequences, when the people find out that their own government had just murdered thousands of their fellow citizens. At the very least collapse of U.S. political institutions, followed by extreme civil unrest, even a coup or civil war.
I just don't buy it. The risk versus the reward doesn't add up.
>>720011595 So are you the "30 minutes lol retard" guy asking for evidence, getting it and then changing the thrust of your argument?
I would be amazed. All the evidence to the contrary, all the refutations of all of the evidence for a conspiracy and yet it turns out to be true. All it takes is some solid evidence. You don't have it. Occam's razor applies.
False flag operations have been done throughout the history as a means to get populations to support war. There's even the now declassified Operation Northwoods, a plan made for performing a real terrorist attack on american soil to gain support for an attack on Cuba. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
No, I wasn't that guy. I just found it highly suspicious that on that specific day Dick Cheney personally ordered that the normal scrambling routine won't be done and the planes would be allowed to fly to their destinations.
The "What would you do" question still stands. You didn't answer what you would do IF you found irrefutable evidence of the attack being an inside job.
>What would you do if you ever realised your retarded theory was bullshit?
I'd be delighted! The free world would be led by relatively good guys, the evil terrorists would be just some cave dwellers without US support, and the world would be a better place with a benevolent world police to protect us from the bad guys. It's such a happy worldview that I would definitely be happier if I could believe in it.
>>720013344 I believe you. You seem otherwise reasonable. Why do you let such obvious nonsense affect you? There are countless refutations to conspiracy theories out there. Go read them with an open mind.
This video clip describes Paul Wolfowitz's involvement in shaping the U.S. Neoconservative foreign policy implemented after the attacks of September 11, 2001, including his role in the creation of the PNAC document ”Rebuilding America's Defenses” during the year 2000 which suggested a need for a ”catastrophic and catalyzing event— like a new Pearl Harbor.” http://www.newsofinterest.tv/video_pages_flash/politics/misc_neocon_globalist/wolfowitz_pnac_nph.php
>most engineers don't dispute the story because they understand how things work and are built. They understand how buildings are built, understand how planes are built, and general understand that we reduce materials and decrease safety factor because this is not 2,000 BC and we have limited resources.
>potheads on the Internet understand the whole story, because they aren't sheeple
>100 dumb as shit engineers disagree with the official story.
>paranoid potheads feel justified because 1% of the scientific community is stoned and paranoid, too.
I understand that the government has and does do some underhanded shit, but the scope and involvement needed to pull something like this off is enormous. Seriously, you would need tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people to be "in on it". How can the number of people who are involved outnumber the number of people on the conspiracy side. How can the remaining 98% be oblivious. It's fucking absurd.
Because there's too much undeniable evidence for it, and too little and too illogical evidence against it. The pancake theory didn't make sense and even the government no longer promotes it as the truth, the incredible insurances of the WTC towers before the attacks, WTC 7 collapsing without any plane hitting it in a classic controlled demolition after firemen walked out of it saying "we're going to pull it"... Meanwhile the evidence against the inside job is so bad that it's only enough for a lazy excuse to keep up the patriotism.
>I understand that the government has and does do some underhanded shit, but the scope and involvement needed to pull something like this off is enormous.
Remember that this is the same government that spends more on military than the rest of the world combined. The amount of americans killed in the war outnumbered the amount of americans killed in the terrorists attacks within years from the start of the war, so don't think the military industrial complex cares about a few lives when war literally is their business.
>No, I'm sad that some people are afraid to accept unpleasant truths so they choose to believe comforting lies instead.
The irony must be lost on you. As a person who can't accept that terrible people can do unexpected terrible things. That is must be a controlled item, in the hands of the few; intentional and planned. That you are one of only a handful of people who can see through the lies. Do you really not see the irony, that you have bought into and created delusions that oppose what most of the educated science and engineering community accepts. That you chose to believe the blathering of a few men who are desperate for views on their monatized conspiracy sites over an overwhelming majority of engineers, materials experts, and eye witnesses.
>>720014764 There you go again. Undeniable? You aren't reading anything that contradicts your view if you believe that. You must only visit echo chambers. I've never seen a piece of conspiracy garbage that wasn't refuted somewhere.
Some of it is easy, some takes better qualified people than me. But it's out there. Go find it. And live a happier life.
>>720003476 >entire plane vaporized except one tiny engine that looks like it belongs on a war head. Don't forget it hit the ONLY side of the building that had been hardened against "terrorism". what a coincy-dinky!
I'm getting tired of repeating these time and time again for years, so here's a document by a man who started trying to debunk conspiracy theories but ended up realizing that they were right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vV9ND1BqDk
>>720015180 That has nothing to do with what I posted. Hidden agendas, disguised troop movements, those can be accomplished pretty easy. A marine on a mission never knows the truth behind his mission. That is far different than hundreds of thousands of people all involved in a falsified terrorist attack. The people involved would either need to know up front, or would shortly afterward realize that they were involved. There would be a ton of people coming forward, and the stories would match (unlike the conspiracy shills who's stories match as much as people who have seen bigfoot). The conspiracy sites would not be putting out data 10 years later that contradicted the original theory they had 10 years prior. Why the inconsistencies on the conspiracy side.
Not going to waste my time on the image because I'm an engineer who spent 5 years in a metal and soils lab, and it's been thoroughly disproven over and over again base on temperature and yield point. Temperature plays a huge role. If temperature and rate of destruction aren't related tell the people of hiroshima that they didn't vaporize, they should have survived, because most people in a fire stay alive for a few minutes.
No. I know this looks like a wall-of-text defense, but I'm just literally too exasperated on repeating everything. It's like every time there's a 9/11 discussion, everyone has forgotten everything they have ever heard and every single point has to be re-established.
>>720016159 Don't believe your eyes. I was at the Boston marathon and apparently saw the most elaborate acting drill ever conducted. In real time it looked like people got torn the fuck apart by shrapnel from a relatively small explosion, but slowed down you can see the stage hands placing all the body parts from what i'm told.
>>720016500 It doesn't work like that dude. If you don't have the patience to defend your argument then you lose the argument. I'm not that guy but he readily refuted your stuff with reasonable statements. Linking a video of some other guy adds nothing to this. He won.
>>720016916 winning the argument doesn't make it so. i saw a fucking plane hit the building. I'm not going to argue about it because i saw it. the funny thing is another guy i was fishing with also saw it and the conspiracy theorists use his eyewitness testimony to try to prove the govment was lying because the planes were a couple hundred yards from the radar-released flight path. i mean - they don't dispute that we SAW A FUCKING JUMBO JET. google steve chaconas.
>>720005287 You mean that Muslims are actually peaceful and responded to the US attacking them?
>Every Christmas I have to see the same dam bumper splash of we will never forget >He doesn't care about the Israelis >He doesn't want to, he even admits if it was true that it was just the Israelis showing what the Muslims could do if they wanted to.
What i find very exciting is the pattern these discussions always follow. Pro conspiracy: it was like that and that because of "evidence". Liberal: this could have also been because of this and that (offers another possible reason for "evidence") Pro conspiracy: youre a retard.
>why even bother?
I promise you: all these conspiracy nerds are, because of their attitudes, fucking lonely assholes. And for those who actually READ THIS. Please wake up. Let the different opinions challenge each other, don't deny the weaknesses of each theory. Otherwise youre doomed to have no progress and therefore no success. Cause success follows progress.
The building in Tehran crumbled, it didnt just fall down on itself like WTC7. Not the mention that building was in IRAN and was hardly well maintained (or most likely well built) in the 30 years before the fire. WTC was a Government owned, glass fronted Steel framed skyscraper. No building like it before or since has collapsed the same way due to fire.
Israel was the party mostly behind the 9/11 attacks. It was a long term plot that took place over the course of years covertly, with Mossad agents posing as elevator repair crews eventually wiring up the building a couple of months before the attack. The short term goal was to tarnish the opinions of islam in the west to gain sympathy for israel in their fight against palestine. The Long term goal was total destabilzation of the middle east in order for israel to take over the region.
Only a few americans knew and they were all given untold amounts in return for their silence on the matter, or were in a position to profit from the attacks independantly.
The Bush family was one of those who knew but took little part in planning or committing the attack.
Larry Silverstein is a Mossad asset and took a large role in financing and planning the attacks.
It's more complicated than that - the WTC complex was insured via multiple insurance policies with 23 different companies for a total of $3.55 billion for a single event. He asked that it be considered two events, so the limit be raised to $7.1 billion. The insurance companies disputed this, and there was a court case, and the resultant total limit was much less the $7.1 billion ($4.577 billion).
And this only covered half the cost of rebuilding the complex, in 2007 this was estimated as $9 billion. Public investment (loans) was required to cover the difference.
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