US criminals and mass shooters get their guns legally. The 3 biggest mass shootings in US history were with legally obtained weapons. There's no incentive to spending extra money for a gun on the street when gun stores don't even do background checks. Foreign gangs living in countries with strict gun control smuggle weapons from gun runners in the US that were originally bought legally.
The gay club shooting by Omar Mateen was done with legal weapons and caused 50 deaths and over 53 wounded. The virginia tech shooting was done with legal weapons obtained by that crazy asian guy. The sandy hook shooting is 3rd with 26 deaths and was done by a guy who stole the guns his mom bought legally. She'd be training him how to use them in case the government ever tried to go fascist. Another dipshit conservative.
>>719872445 >There is not one state where it is legal to obtain a gun from a store without a background check
That's not true. People walk in and out of gun shows without doing a background check all the fucking time. Some states require gun stores to do background checks only for handguns, some require permits, etc. The end result though is anyone with a history can get his hands on a gun legally easy enough.
>>719873022 You mase the claim, you have to cite the sources. And you lied as usual. >>719873022 Mateen was on 2 government watchlists when he bought them. The background checks (government) failed; not the 2nd Amendment. Lanza killed his mom and stole the guns. How is that even close to legally obtaining them? The VA tech shooter shouldn't have been able to get the gins, it was a breakdown with an online pirchase whoch is the store's fault Fucking idiot
How is the U.S. government responsible for the Sandy Hook shooting? How is the U.S. supposed to know the mental condition of every member of a family? Europeans have taken upon themselves the past time of shitting on U.S. policies without thinking of the circumstances and must apply their cuck ideology on everyone they know. The only reason for guns is to defend oneself. Now do I think high caliber assault weapons are way too much? Yes! Do I think we should completely annex all guns? No. People wouldn't need to buy guns if there weren't a reason to do so, and the solution to fixing crime is a thing(created by culture and socioeconomics) that can't be fixed with anti gun legislation. Whether you restrict guns or not people will still smuggle them in from other places, essentially the same situation in reverse.
>>719874377 >Mateen was on 2 government watchlists when he bought them. The background checks (government) failed; not the 2nd Amendment. >Lanza killed his mom and stole the guns. How is that even close to legally obtaining them? >The VA tech shooter shouldn't have been able to get the gins, it was a breakdown with an online pirchase whoch is the store's fault >Fucking idiot
>it's everyone's fault except the guns! >guns are a hobby of peace!
This shit will never end because you guys want to fantasize about fighting an armed conflict with the government or fight off a crowd of criminals or surviving some kind of apocalypse. There's no reason for allowing civilians to own guns.
>>719873920 In Switzerland in order to own a gun you have to fill out massive amounts of paperwork and demonstrate a need to purchase a gun. Also under Swiss law, you need to store the barrel and receiver in separate parts of the house
>>719876587 thats just like private sellers of anything. no one verifies your identity, license to drive, or insurance status when you buy a car private party, and as we have seen, they can be pretty deadly.
>>719872286 Swap out the guy's empty palm with three knife-filled palms. This is what happens when you remove firearms. Violent crime goes up, gun crime goes down. Would you like more violence overall or some gun violence?
>>719878096 >Would you like more violence overall or some gun violence? Tell us more about how Omar would have killed more people in that club with a knife instead of a gun. Tell us more about how much higher Dylan and Eric's kill count would be if they had knifes instead.
>>719873897 >Criminalization of firearm ownership does anything but remove the guns from those who would legally use them. Where there's a will, there's a way to build a firearm from plumbing pipes and dirt.
>We should outlaw anything on four wheels that travels faster than 5 mph and has assault-style d doors Cars can be and are involved in accidents; you don't need a privately owned car. Just use the public transportation system.
This way anoyone with the capability of doing another person harm is a criminal! Oh, wait, that's stupid.
>>719878306 Omar could have stabbed people on the subway (in some other state) and could have kept doing it for weeks before getting caught. Omar could have used a bomb, if it were easier to procure than a firearm (which is the implication). Omar could have made one or imported one piece by piece. Sounds like you're just upset that he had the freedom of choice to do something negative. Sounds like you're not prepared for freedom and all of it's products, positive or negative. I would recommend moving to Europe or China, maybe.
>>719877694 Hear me out here. What if since he's a criminal he stole the gun? What if criminals don't respect the law? What if the thought process of a criminal goes like this, "if I'm going to kill a man using a gun I might as well go the whole 9 yards and obtain the weapon illegally to avoid background checks?"
>>719879178 >Sounds like you're just upset that he had the freedom of choice to do something negative. >Sounds like you're not prepared for freedom and all of it's products, positive or negative. >I would recommend moving to Europe or China, maybe.
>>719879263 >What if criminals don't respect the law? So why should stealing be illegal if criminals are steal anyway?
>What if the thought process of a criminal goes like this, "if I'm going to kill a man using a gun I might as well go the whole 9 yards and obtain the weapon illegally to avoid background checks?" You underestimate how dangerous this. You can easily wind up dead killed by some gangster just trying for this.
>>719879441 Any real argument for taking firearms away other than 'I don't like firearm crime more than I don't like other crime? ' At this point, I don't like other crime, so we're at an impasse and you're doing the equivalent to changing your voice into a mocking tone because you're at the end of your mental rope. We done, then? Right, have a nice day, retard.
The arguments of this thread are all weak. >ban all guns so no crime! >give everyone a gun so no crime!
The fact of the matter is that where guns are banned crime increases. However even in gun utopias there is still crime. The cause of crime, like murder, robbery and rape is more directlyrelated to the culture of the people in that given area.
>>719879070 >complains about gun free zones >doesn't realize it doesn't work because you can buy guns everywhere else if there were only gun free zones, it would work perfectly. it doesn't work when you can just take five steps to the left and buy your own personal artillery.
>>719879709 >At this point, I don't like other crime, so we're at an impasse and you're doing the equivalent to changing your voice into a mocking tone because you're at the end of your mental rope. No retard, that image was appropraietly used. You couldn't come up with an argument, so you literally just spout "muh freedumbs!".
I'd tell you to have a nice day, but you probably won't since you'll see another mass shooting this week on the news and call it a falselfag.
>>719879996 >and if there where no gun-free zones, where everybody where armed, few would dare to commit crimes out of fear of being shoot to death at the spot. So all those war-torn African countries should be utopias then.
>>719879602 >implying that the illegality of a matter is directly relevant to the prevention of crime The illegality merely allows us to punish behavior, that we as a society deem unfit, in an authoritative manner. Law is the meta. You can get past the meta and succeed on your own, but the meta will make it difficult. What we're discussing here is not the effectiveness of law on crime, we're discussing the potential impacts of a law on society as a whole. If laws actually stopped peoole from doing things, there would be laws against lying in any form at any time.
>>719879996 not true. usa had a gun violence problem way before gun free zones. instead what you get is armed gangs fighting full force. if guns made things peaceful, syria would be a utopia.
guns don't stop crimes, it only means they will shoot your ass instead of just taking your shit. in my country, which is very gun free, robbers just come and ask for your stuff. say no, and they'll just leave and try someone that are more easily scared. if everyone has guns, you just get shit like brazil where some cunts of a scooter drive up to you and shoot you dead, then steal your shit.
>>719878096 The point is that guns make killing lots of people quickly easier
Rob a bank with a knife you get wrestled to the ground and hurt a couple people if that, everyone survives Rob a bank with a gun you typically end up with a shootout with either you or other people dead, not injured. Dead.
Guns fighting guns is the most retarded thing someone can say for the "pro gun" side of things. With no guns there would be no need for regular civs carrying guns to "protect themselves" No civs with guns, no kids getting their hands on guns, no school shootings, great reduction in crime overall as it becomes harder to do.
>>719871139 i dont know where this thread is atm, just saw it as i scrolled, but gun control is complete ass, many european countries encourage gun ownership and knowledge and crime is way down. if it is an advertised fact that EVERYBODY owns a gun, nobody is gonna commit crime, cuz they WILL get shot. it just makes sense
>>719880296 the only armed people in those countries is either (A) part of an communist militia (B) corrupt cops/military. regular people don't have guns for the same reason government want's gun control: prevent the people from rising up and take away their power
>>719880488 what needs to be regulated is who can buy guns or not. people with a mental health issues or an criminal history should not be able to purchase guns legally (you can't prevent illegal commerce).
also, people need to go through proper education to learn safety & technique. being a skoal dipping yokel that listens to kenny chesney is not an qualification.
>>719880522 I would rob a bank with a bomb over a knife. That's pretty retarded. This knife robbing fantasy you have is inherently flawed. With serious gun control, bombs are easier to procure than illegal guns. >No civs with guns is an unrealistic impossibility in any country, unless any criminal cannot be a civilian.
>>719871139 YAY LET'S FIGHT WITH WORDS ON THE INTERNET AND NOT ON THE STREET COS THATS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE GUNS AND IF WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT THERE SOMEONE MIGHT GET SHOT BECAUSE THIS IS THE LAND OF THE FREEEEEEEEE SO FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Also, how many pro-gun peole wish they were in Syria right now, shooting mudlsimes and niggers in the face?
I mean, really imagine it; You and your buddies in a pimped out station wagon, armed to the teeth with all the guns you can carry just shooting brown fucks in the face?
Imagine just driving into a village, just shooting every brown fuck in the face there and then afterwards just raping all the girls at gun point. Maybe keep some cute ones to make your waify later.
Doesn't that sound liek a dream come true?
Well why not join Isis?
All the freedom to shoot muslims in the face but without your pesky "US laws" getting in the way.
Isis: Shooting Muslims in the face since, I don't know? 2012? 2013? Who fucking cares? They have their own crazy fucking calendar but you get given a high powered assault rifle, all the muslims you can kill and your pick of the conquered women to fuck afterwards so NONE OF IT MATTERS!!!
Every libertarian I ever met thinks that business owners have the "right to segregate." They're all so obsessed with property rights, that they think freeing the slaves was a violation of their sacred NAP.
>>719881160 >what needs to be regulated is who can buy guns or not. people with a mental health issues or an criminal history should not be able to purchase guns legally (you can't prevent illegal commerce). >also, people need to go through proper education to learn safety & technique. being a skoal dipping yokel that listens to kenny chesney is not an qualification. genius! if somebody only had thought of this before! we could call it... GUN CONTROL. good thing we republitards aren't tarded.
>>719872020 They do background checks in every state for any concealable weapons. Long guns are considered for hunting pretty much exclusively, though some states still background check for them.
In fact, there are states that have mag capacity limits and heavily-restrictive registration hoops to jump through.
Everyone thinks Americans can get a gun at a gas station, but that's only true in shit-tier hick states, where none of us that matter even go.
Now strip the ability to obtain weapobs legally, and yes. The criminals will find illegal weapons. They dont have to yet. If they did, and they felt strongly enough to murder people, they would find a way to obtain illegal firearms, which are VERY easy to obtain from your average group of niggers named Jamal.
Guns are a part of America, for better or for worse. Using other gun-free countries as an example is unfair considering how easy it is for criminals to sell blank saturday night specials here. Introducing gun control at this point is going to disarm the wrong people.
Tl;dr - We've always had guns and its impossible to get rid of them now, no matter the measures taken.
>>719881315 Ideally, businesses should have the right to segregate, but it'll hurt their business and they'll go under, which no government programs should save them from. To me, slavery goes against the basic principles of libertarianism, since it literally makes another human being into property and gives them zero liberty.
>>719880028 This is what happens when you remove firearms. Violent crime goes up, gun crime goes down.
This was my original argument and you seem to have misconstrued it into some other fanciful, retarded saying. Still waiting on your argument in support of the premise that more violent crime but no guns is better than less overall crime. I know it's hard for you to use your brain, but give it a go, hm?
>>719881668 >gun control is banning upstanding citizens from purchasing, owning & carrying guns in public. that's just what republican propaganda wants you to believe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control
>>719881756 There you go deflecting again. It's cute to watch you flop around like a fish out of water. Take your time and formulate and argument, please. I'll be here until the thread closes in the case that you're done shitposting and you have something useful to say. Bon chance, faggot.
>>719881913 I don't personally support segregation, no. But if a racist owns a business and wants to only sell to certain people, it should be his right to do so. The business will not succeed with such a policy in place, so it won't even be an issue.
>>719881854 Nah, it just costs more and you have to do some legally ambiguous activities. You could own a tank if you were willing to pay the taxes on it, each round, and never drive it on paved roads (without proper tools and permission).
>>719882023 >Take your time and formulate and argument, please. I'll be here until the thread closes in the case that you're done shitposting and you have something useful to say. I did before, and you wasted it on dank buzzwords and fallacies, so you don't deserve a proper discussion anymore.
This was fun, but I gotta go now. Be American, get shot.
>>719872020 According to police most criminals get their guns from theft or borrowing it from their criminal gang. Some mass shooters buy them but should of been flagged like the aurora shooter, the laws were in place to stop him from getting them but they didn't. That's how effective gun control laws would be we've already seen it in effect. Maybe we should get like 1 nogun state like an island or something so anti gun people can have a safe space to go live at
>>719882329 >Maybe we should get like 1 nogun state like an island or something so anti gun people can have a safe space to go live at If you like guns so much move to Africa so you can have your gun-nut safe space.
>>719882255 In no post within the chain is ther an actual, worded argument. I'll go back and check, just to give you the benefit of the doubt, but damn.
This is the closest thing to an argument so far: >Tell us more about how Omar would have killed more people in that club with a knife instead of a gun. >Tell us more about how much higher Dylan and Eric's kill count would be if they had knifes instead. They would have gotten plenty of kills with timed-bombs placed around the targets. You seem to think knives are the only other available force multiplier. Still no real argument.
That's not true. Civilians were never allowed to have naval ships or the big guns of the day that went on them. In fact, the Navy was explicitly created separately from the army to be permanent and not a militia.
The WMD of the day were giant ships of the line. And civilians could NOT own them.
I find it funny that literally the only retards banging their head against America's gun control laws are non-Americans and tumblrina liberal faggots. Focus on your own shit. If we die from bullets, let us die from bullets.
For those of you who are American and don't like guns, go to another country. Ours was founded from revolt using firearms, so it was sort of baked into your country's earliest levels of development.
>>719879441 Are your kidding China sounds great! On the day Sandy hook occurred China actually had a insane man attack a school as well. However only one person was injured and it was a teacher who was stabbed in the arm wrestling the man too the ground because all the fucker had was a knife.
>Gun control works in civilized countries >translation: >gun control works when you don't have niggers who shoot people
Listen, moron. If you had a country with 100% white people and everyone owned a gun, it'd still be some of the lowest gun crime rate in the world.
I really don't understand liberals. They have to know that niggers are where all the gun crime is at. Yet they lop all gun owners into the category. Even legal gun owners own guns to defend from niggers. Seriously, a bunch of southern white people with guns are not killing anybody. Zero. Yet niggers going around killing themselves with their illegal guns are.
Either liberals are really stupid, or they know niggers are the problem and hope that gun control gets guns out of their hands. Which it doesn't.
It's an open and shut case. Get it through your thick head. Gun control works the same way as banning drugs. Supply and demand, no matter the law. Niggers will still have them illegally, except now the white man that has them will be considered a criminal.
>>7198719883 China has a huge hitman network in some of the seedier areas. Illegal firearms are commonly used.
We don't hear about it because Chinese reporters probably don't want to report the deaths of every person in the country with the largest impact on the total world population. Or aren't allowed to. Whatever the case.
>Once you have gun control it will only be a matter of time until you have a defacto gun ban a lot of countries have had gun control for a very long time without gun ban. even norway doesn't have a gun ban, but does have gun control.
>>719875749 Where in that post is an argument? It is merely a logical statement. I swear to fucking god every person on 4chan is on the edge of their seat waiting to have their views challenged at the drop of a hat. Your lives must suck. Woe is fucking you.
It amazes me that people like you think single circumstances like this - exceptions to the rule - somehow disprove the rule. It doesn't.
The amount of people Anders killed was beat the same day by niggers in America. Liberals see 36 deaths at one time as somehow more important than 50 spread across a country. I think the fact that 50 niggers went out and killed 50 people is a little bit more of an issue than 1 loony white guy who snapped.
And this is why you're batshit retarded. And that is why you and your future generations will be raised in a volatile world full of niggers and muslims because you wanted to baby them instead of standing up for what's right.
>>719884485 The Norweigan population is smaller than Americas so those he killed caused a massive spike in murders per capita, especially considering how there aren't that many murders carried out in norway, and especially not by terrorists with guns. Or people with guns in general.
Plus he killed 77 people, mainly kids.
But I like the fact that you think he is a nigger. I am sure Anders himself would be tickled by that.
>>719871139 Ausfag here. Can confirm gun control doesn't work. Just puts weapons in the hands of criminals and takes it away from law abiding citizens. People here trust Police Officers who have little to no training in firearms only because they wear a uniform.
>>719883556 The problem is that liberals want a feel good solution rather than looking at the hard truth. Violent crime is caused by three things: lack of education, mental illness, and income inequality. Banning guns just means stabbings, beatings, and others forms of murder go up.
Now, the Republicans are equally fucked in that they don't want to fun schools, government job programs (like infrastructure - we spent our way out of the Great Depression and Great Recession), and health care.
That's fucking stupid. Besides which, snowniggers snatched up all the land and built up all the good stores while real niggers were still property being bought and sold for sheckles on the free market.
They didn't even allow blacks to own businesses in the south until 1965. So of course 95% of businesses are white-owned, including all the biggest businesses that would be most damaging to ban people from like the giant chain stores.
Imagine banning all niggers from Walmarts? There'd be entire cities where niggers literally couldn't buy underwear or t-shirts unless somebody let them borrow a credit card to get them off Amazon.
And could I see a crazy Arkansas racist drunk bitch like Alice Walton waiving her majority shareholder wand and making that happen tomorrow if it were legal?
Absolutely. Have you ever heard that uneducated billionaire hick talk?
>>719886341 Not to mention that it would be way worse for America because there is a huge market for illegal guns brought from mexico. Shut down the drug runners and gangs and violent crime would drop drastically. I don't believe this is an achievable goal however...
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