>>719735095 My dad was paying $250/month for a basic healthcare coverage before Obamacare. It was basically covering traumatic injuries/diseases.
Obamacare comes in, insurance company can't offer that coverage anymore because it doesn't cover everything. Cheapest option my dad can get is $475/month. Dad says fuck that and doesn't sign up, retires, works off the books now.
>>719735780 But, but, everyone knows real doctors are in in for the healing, doctors who want to make a profit need to go to prison WTF is wrong with them just heal me and gain satisfaction from it doc, also go to med school for lot's of years and work and study really fucking hard and pay a bunch of money for school just cause you're a good guy doc.
>>719735095 because i co-own a metal fab business with 2 other people and before obongocare my insurance was $45/mo and nobody was forcing me to pay it, now with bananacare it was like $185/mo last time i checked and im lying to the government about it because im not going to pay $3k/yr for something i dont use. i havent been to the doctor in 15 years aside from yearly checkups
and the reason why the insurance company don't offer the same cover anymore? because they will not make as much profit with it under obamacare. so to keep the profits the same they up the cost of the policy.. that way they keep raking in the money and they can tell people its all because of obamacare.
i doubt Americans will ever see free / government subsidized healthcare, there are to many powerful people making money out of the current system for it to ever change
>>719736292 More like it will get patched up a bit, prolonging the inevitable crash or leeching vast sums of tax dollars (which it already does, but i mean waaay waaay more) to sustain it. Then when it finally fucks up rebubs will be blamed for fucking it up, even thought Onegrocare is fucked as it is. >Huur it needs replaced with something Like what faggots, it's easy for uneducated faggots to demand a service from the government, that doesn't mean there is a win win situation just because you wish it. If there was a good way to do it what would it have been and why didn't Obama do it? >INB4 blame the republicans for the one fucking thing Obama really did in the white house and it's a failure
Live in Canada. Taxes are high, but incomes are adjusted to accommodate them. Not a bad system. If someone needs something, they just go. Expensive, though, and now people are voting to control how people live their lives and what choices they make because they don't want their taxes to go up. For everyday things, the clinics are better than even having insurance in the USA, but if you require any ongoing care it's hell.
Jeez, get over it, you lost. The majority of the people voted for him, that's why he's the president. And allowing illegal immigrants to vote in dem. states was a nice move, yeah...
>Hey, chulio, want to vote? >Si! Si senior! >Are you a citizen? >Si senjor! But me documents, they be in car.. >Good enough, I trust him... who are you going to vote cabaliero? >O... not trump si senjore...
>>719736711 I like the idea of healthcare being a right, and if it's done right - single payer has a lot of advantages. Obamacare is a mess. The issue I have with single payer is that it opens the door for people to start voting for more controlling laws, because now everyone's health is costing everyone money. Like to smoke, or drink, or anything that could be perceived as potentially costing tax payers more money? Your rights are going to be attacked.
>>719736706 Exactly, people don't acknowledge or don't care that 1: it creates a financial imbalance of one form or another, this imbalance could be a trigger to a much larger imbalance, domino effect 2:you lose your fucking liberties cause turns out people don't like paying for other peoples stupid fucking mistakes and lifestyle choices.
Australia here, we are the same here in some respects, tax is high but so are incomes. healthcare is entirely free here though and if you need ongoing care, thats free and easy to get also. people pay for private health basically so they can get a private room and be seen a little faster.
>>719736365 >something i dont use. i havent been to the doctor in 15 years aside from yearly checkups I'm never gonna get old either. If you're born debilitated, you should just die like nature intended.
>>719737013 You tellem buddy, i mean its in the bible god said let there be guns and thats what they are. These liberal cucks trying to take my guns make me so mad id almost be vulnerable to being the subject of trolling....
>>719737140 I liked Australia, when I was there. It was a lot better than Canada - though they have similar systems? I'd like to find out why, tbh. I think that the food, overall, is better and healthier there. That's my take, anyway. Here in Canada we import a lot of the mass produced stuff from the USA. In Australia it's all, mostly, made in Australia. I, really, loved the freshness of the food there, etc. I just don't think that's possible here in North America.
Because everyone is forced to have it and if they don't they incur stiff income tax penalties that increase by a surmountable amount every year. Not everyone can afford it and being forced to pay for it is bullshit.
>>719737395 It's the thing, private insurance companies have actually driven the price of healthcare so high in the USA that single payer isn't possible. It has to be slowly driven down to be able to do it. The thing is, when you do that you make a lot of people mad whose job it is to save lives.
>>719737043 Using Obamas argument. >people that don't like me don't like me cuz dey racist or cause they listen to racists, i'm the first blackity black pres therefor my words and actions are cannon. No ones opinions matter cause i'm always right, why can't Republicans understand that? It almost seems like he really believes this but i think he's to smart for that. He just says it because he knows people like you eat it up.
yeah because they were selling joke policy's that didn't really cover you for shit. its the money grabbing insurance companies that set the prices. so now they sell you the new minimum for even more money, but it costs them nothing more to provide it.. and then say sorry, the government has made the cost go up.
>>719737508 In Canada it's like that, to an extent, but the system here is so overloaded that it's pretty slow. Here in Quebec I'd say it's almost broken, depending on what issues you have. The USA, before Obamacare, was just odd. If you had insurance, you got over-covered. Doctors just throw pills at you, you don't ever get better. It's a gimmick half the time. Something serious, though? Whether you have insurance or not, you go to the hospital. If you didn't have insurance they would just put a medical bill against your credit. Most poor people have bad credit, anyway, so whatever? Now it's more complicated. The problem is mostly that people are having to pay, noticeably, out of pocket instead of having it just get absorbed and ignored in the overall tax brackets.
This. Obamacare fucks the middle class who contribute so much to the economy, so yung "welfare" tyrone can get treated for his bullet wounds to live another day of being supported by the Gov' and not paying child support.
>>719737140 Again, the big issue I have here in Canada is the tendency for people to start voting to take away people's rights because they may impact the bottom line when it comes to healthcare. It's a real thing that's happening. In Australia, it's so expensive to own and operate a car, it's insane. $400 tickets for going less than 10km/hour over the speed limit, $600+/year for registration, it's pretty insane.
>>719736569 OR because or premiums sky rocketed because of it. Shit that's not even the worst part. Now most people have a deductible. A 5 to 12 k deductible. I hate it because I pay $800 a month for insurance I can't use because I can't afford the deductible.. before Obamacare I paid $200 a month for a family of for with no deductible.
>>719738202 Yeah, well, over here people wouldn't take to kindly to that :D. This is what it comes down to. Calmly accepting government controls, because they are for 'the greater good'. That calm and cool acceptance is not something people in the USA like or stand for.
>>719738446 Looks like a terrible Left wing shill doing a horrible job of impersonating an evil crazy right wing person, sigh. You're really doing a poor job there :/. Though I'm sure that the crazy Dems in this thread are eating it up.
>>719738202 communist logic Comrade Stalin turns out group A does not like being adversely effected to provide for group B. And they are a little bitter that all communism glorious promises don't add up and they're doing more work for less money. Stalin: >load up the train comrades if there is no sugar to give the horses than you must use the whip
those speeding tickets are more like $250 from memory (depends on the state) and are hardly an ongoing cost of owning a car.
i agree i don't like the registration costs here, mainly because its another bill, they don't seem excessively expensive to me in relation to the amount of money i earn. most of us earn good money so what may seem expensive to you could be normal for us.
>>719736711 This All these fucking selfish fucks feeling like they deserve everything for free without working. Fucking socialists, there used to be witchhunts for socialists. Amazing times, and look at us now, can't even pay insurance for ourselves anymore. You really don't work hard enough to protect yourself against risk. So fucking funny. Someone else has to pay your protection money. Just die already freeloading fucks.
>>719738570 Registration here is around $150/year? In Florida $50? It doesn't matter how much you make, when you see the bill it's crazy. And a friend in Vic just posted a ticket a few weeks ago - $430 for going 3km/hour over the limit.
all this time and you have zero idea what ocare opponents have been raggin about? goddam 5,000 pages no democrat ever read through promises from the Owhitehouse premiums would not exceed 2500 bucks you could keep your doctor mandatory costs/,,coverage free to 11,000,000 illegal mother cuckers sex change at the working class es' cost for felon inmate cucks, costs for upkeep of moozie murderer major hassan fines for not signing up birth control for no job no anything but state income for dames who need state help to run their soft parts. americans called stupid by jonathan goober the cuck already nicely paid wined and dined through his tenured school position fraud in disability,with a 500k$ commission fee on top of that as a consultant resident egghead expert on healthcare being constitutional. big insurance outfits cancelling coverage,small medium and large businesses doing no fulltime hiring, a few insurance companies made out like bandits,while mr & mz hourly workers ate told fuck you. every goddamn obama democrat policy ends up a 3 stooge 97 floor skyscraper because it was a 97 floor skyscraper from the ground up. AHCA and other obamacrat stupidities were why trump one,,,,genius,,,,,
>>719738853 The proper statement is - if he *could* have. Healthcare costs in the USA are just too high. They have to be brought down before Universal Healthcare can be implemented. Not an easy thing, and there are drawbacks to Universal Healthcare - like the strengthening of the FDA to eliminate more 'unhealthy' foods from American's diets because they cost taxpayers money, stricter anti smoking laws, higher costs for operating cars, etc, etc.
>>719735095 I'm not sure. I live in Canada, but I lived in the US too, and it is one of the big differences I've noticed. San Francisco and Vancouver are verysimilar, but a big difference seems to be healthcare. When you go to the poor areas here, people are more okay. Down there, it's a disaster. It's probably a side effect of havng 10X the population too.
>>719739200 Is it, then? Then why are so many Atheists supporting Trump? Terrible troll. Since I seem to be the only actual human in here at this point, I'll drop it :D. Have a good day :D. I don't think your boss will be giving you any tendies, though. Seriously. He should fire you. You're just not very good at this :(.
>>719739319 Ahh, another possible real person? Hard to say :D. I do agree with you on that one, but it really seems more about the fact that Canada pays off their poor people so they don't try to kill us. It's a pretty decent way to go for us, but I don't think it's very possible in the USA.
>>719738740 >a few weeks ago yeah speeding fines double during the Christmas / new year period in an effort to curb fools on the roads. normal fines are not that high.
yea, compared to $600+ , $150 would be great! - i am under no impression that costs of living are not high here, they are. but it evens out a bit when you consider that the same job thats pays $6 an hour in the US, pays $32 a hour here. idk
>>719739457 No, people support Trump because they believe in freedom of speech and expression, and they can't take screaming teenage girls bouncing around everywhere telling them to check their privilege, that there are 735 genders, and that they are really apache helicopters :D.
>>719739492 Yeah, I liked Aus. Car expense aside. Although, it was super cheap and faster to take the train and I could rent a car there for $30/day - a flat $30/day, not like here where $30 is really $130. I just don't know how that could be moved over here. Australia is so self contained, I think that's how they do it. The other problem with Australia is the internet, but that's another discussion, lol.
>>719735095 I don't have any particular problem with expanding health insurance availability or forcing insurance companies to compete with each other.
I do think it's annoying as fuck to be forced to have insurance or get hit with a massive fine. I'm HEALTHY. It's bullshit that I should shell out $200 a month for something I don't need. Emergency care? Bitch I sliced my hand to the bone on a piece of scrap metal and I fixed that shit with gauze and duct tape. Unless I'm in a massive car wreck, I don't need emergency care, and if I'm injured badly enough that I'm going to need 5 fucking years of rehab and physical therapy to recover then just let me fucking die.
>>719739882 Of course those people should be allowed to express themselves. That's not the issue. It's fairly obvious that the driving force behind all of that is a government funded propaganda machine. Limit or end that funding, replace those cabinet members, higher ups, and the trend will change. Girls will start gushing about something different. It's how things go.
>>719740051 ROFL, terrible shill. Really. You have no clue what platform you are pretending to support. It's obvious and bad. I don't think you're capable of learning better, either. You're doing a rough approximation, but it fails in too many ways to be useful to you.
If you want to shill the "Libertarian" approach, of going your own way, without regulation, then you should also be refused any Government Assistance, like Emergency Room Aid if you are destitute or simply not "Liquid" at the moment.
Perphaps you shouldn't use Government built roads that you don't want to pay for since you have perfectly healthy 4x4 vehicles that can go everywhere over unpaved terrain ?
>>719740065 Because I would rather work less and have more than prepare for a bad circumstance that is unlikely to ever happen.
People aren't meant to live forever, and people aren't meant to be corralled into boxes for 40-50 hours a week. Sickness happens, injury happens, and I want to go fishing instead of being trapped in an office so I can pay for shit I don't want or need.
Scared Frightened Willing to pretend to be nonchalant while still replying to bait
But have you even once considered that that is exactly what the jew liberal propaganda machine wants you to do? I mean seriously you might as well be a welfare smoking negro if you lefties think you can take this wonderful land of ours and turn it into a shithouse pc palace
Ronald reagen would be rolling over in his grave seeing this many liberal cucks pretending to be conservative like you
Australia is pretty self contained, traditionally because of our isolation and all that. worlds a smaller place now.
sometimes i wonder how we ended up with a health system that works so well and is so cheap because early in our days we would often look to other western countries like the US for ideas and tips on how to do things. i think we based our health system on the UK's though, which seems very similar to ours now.
Internet in Australia is our secret shame, its cheap for slow internet and expensive for less slower internet :D
I hate it because I'm oilfield trash. Absolute cheapest plan for me is $300/mo, and it's worthless as I'm not covered in most areas I'm working, and I'd have to get a pcp referral even if the clinic was covered. Over $1k/mo for a plan that would actually be useful.
>>719740248 Yeah, that's kind of the route I'm going with it. I take care of myself. I'll buy medicine if I've got spare cash, but I self-treat everything wrong with me. That's only dangerous when idiots start buying snake oil, but I don't really care if the idiot population starts dying out.
As far as roads - roads have utility. They are literally good for everyone. Forcing everyone to have insurance is so that healthy people, who wouldn't normally buy insurance because they don't need medical insurance or assistance, pay into a system that supports the weak, dumb, and sickly and can keep the system afloat when fat fucks inevitably drain it to the point where it becomes insolvent.
as an european I don't understand you americans at all. you want to be patriotic but you let your fellow americans die because you don't want to pay for insurance of others. because well, if they can't afford it, its their fault. your hatred on "Obamacare" was so big that you would let fellow americans fall in deep financial crisis, let young single mothers fall in despair and hopelessness. you're not christian neither you are patriotic. you're narcissistic and self-driven egomaniacs.
your nation gave me cancer. and I'm going to get my free treatment now because here in the modern west, people care for each other even if they don't benefit from them.
>>719740065 What's so short sighted? If he is willing to accept the risk of a higher chance of an early death there is nothing wrong with what he wrote. Why do you feel the need to police everyone to live to 70+? Will you take away my ability to smoke and drink next?
He's just going to make a few tiny changes, call it Trumpcare and then everyone will think it's a great idea.
Forcing an unpopular nickname on the ACA was a genuis move from the Republicans. Much like you could stop a lot of people from drinking milk if you only had the media refer to it as 'RapingBabiesIsOkay Juice'.
>>719740659 Tell that to a canadian college professor who is being sued because he won't use transgender students preferred pronouns, being cited as "engaging in dehumanizing abuse of students and discriminating against people self-identifying as non-binary genders, and advocating for violence against transgender peoples."
>>719740712 To be fair a destroyed Mecedes Benz would be an eyesore no matter how it came to that state. If something can be sabotaged and is sabotaged then it was never going to work in the first place so why cry about what could have been? We got shit on a platter with ACA why defend it so hard?
>>719740802 There is no reason to save people who don't care enough to live in the first place. If they can't work off their own debt or have been given a shitty hand by life then it should be up to their family or community to support them not some stranger who lives across the country from them.
>>719740802 We're not patriotic in that we love the people that make up our country. We're patriotic in that we love the opportunities that are available in our country. The freedom of movement, economic and literal, the freedom of expression, whether religious or political. The freedom to make our own mistakes and make our own fortunes. That's why our entire ideology around the USA is "land of the free."
>>719740995 yeah sure. because things like getting cancer are indicators for "not caring enough to live in the first place". Your worldview is so simplified it almost hurts. You're proud to be american but you give a shit about americans. bravo
>>719740874 I'm well aware of Pederson, and also Canada is different from the US, and also he is picking that fight - which he absolutely should, because freedom of speech here in iglooland is pretty weak.
However, deep down, that whole thing is a strawman to divide people. Very few are affected, it should be a non issue, but it appeals to emotion, so it plays. But the same person that owns Fox owns Vice and runs both extremes.
>>719736457 you are wrong about this... pre ACA you could do certain types of insurance.. for example, I have depression so I would have to ( be able to ) negotiate with my insurnace company. They would cover me, BUT nothing mental health related. I'd order my meds from india/uk basically.
but yeah after ACA went into effect, it changed how they did business. But you know what, I'm ok with ACA - It needed work, but the old way was really fucked up. People going bankrupt left and fucking right because someone in the family gets cancer, or gets hit by a car or w/e.
>>719736615 you know that ACA helped prop up medicare for a few more years? You know that republicans just made it so that the OMB cannot discuss how much money repealing ACA will cost? literally the group in charge of budgets is NOT ALLOWED to discuss how much money it will cost. repubs fucking kill me.
>>719741130 are you stupid or something? Its the first line in the fucking constitution. It says, right at the beginning.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
We can either drag the entire family into bankruptcy and suffering getting it treated (even with insurance, because of maximum coverage bullshit and non-supported procedures), or just accept that our time has come.
Whether we waste away or take it into our own hands is a choice each member of my family ponders.
>>719741390 or a kidney transplant? lol shit that you could survive...
My wife had a kidney transplant, and she was just booted off medicare - so yeah. no insurance will touch us. No idea what I'm going to do - we are both self employed. Fuck Trump, fuck republicans, fuck you kuks. I'm going to go bankrupt so some jews on wall street can get richer, so trump can live out his dictator fantasy, and some red neck fuckholes can say Nigger again.
the small pleasure I get is that you rural dumb fucks live your small shitty little lives. You are like little smelly moles living underground. You are dog that pisses the carpet, and your rich jew overlords rub your faces in it.
here borrow money oh I'm stealing your house
i need a job sure - lets destroy your unions, remove all the health regs, slave away in this shit factory for a few bucks a day and lick my balls for the opportunity
>>719741472 I don't see your point? The USA is a collective, yes. Individuals have no power. But the ENTIRE reason that collective was formed was to have the freedom to make individual level choices about how we live and act, not to become a nation of people dependent on one another.
>>719740802 Socialized healthcare leads to greatly increased cost, shortages, and bad service. What you advocate is the basic communist ideology. We want everyone to have a job - so let's have government run the economy. We want everyone to have housing, so let the government create housing. We want everyone to have medical care, so let the government run all doctors and hospitals. We want the people to have food, so let government control food supply. As was shown in the extreme in communist countries, this leads to shortages, technological stagnation, and greatly inferior outcomes. This is still true in socialistic countries of Europe to a great degree. You are lucky the USA still has a somewhat free healthcare sector. Just like the soviet union was lucky that the usa was around, so they could try to copy all our technology, like our cars, our medical devices, everything, even though they were always way, way behind. Without the usa, medicine in europe would stagnate, no technological advancement, crap service, and shortages. What medicine needs is to be affordable. What will make it affordable is freedom and capitalism, just as it has in every other industry from food, to computers, to cars. The problem is medical care is getting too expensive and the poor are getting screwed. But the problem has been created by the government. The problem of unaffordable medicine is not more government, it is more freedom, competition, and market forces. Then health care will continue to advance, prices will come down, and efficiency will rise. If you were in a socialist economy and saw the people could not afford food, your solution would be for the government to take over the entire food sector to "save" all the poor people, because otherwise you think they will starve. But the real solution, in fact, would be freedom. Then there would be cheap food in abundance, and problem would disappear.
>>719741514 or you could just get medical insurance, and be fine. but w/e helps you sleep at night.
does it bother you that rich people never think like this? if we get sick we don't even think about hospital costs. It is literally an inconvenience. We worry about the family member - I've had 2 family survive cancer. The money was never ever discussed.
But you have to come to terms with death, and you are ok with that. Shit you probably voted for Trump .
>>719741667 That's nice. The USA doesn't have your healthcare system, and Obamacare is not a single player full coverage system. All it is is a mandate forcing you to have insurance and making it a little easier to find coverage. That insurance doesn't necessarily cover your illness, your procedures, your medication, your treatments, or your surgeries, and not all doctors accept all insurances. And if it DOES cover your particular brand of disease or injury, it doesn't necessarily cover all the costs associated with it, or there might be a wall that you have to pay for yourself before they will provide supplemental coverage.
Relatively decent insurance in the USA (in the sense that unless you get cancer or have full body injury or require open heart surgery, you probably won't go bankrupt if you get it treated) is about $300 a month single person, $800 for a family.
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