The Japanese would never surrender while they believed their ruler was a living god. We showed those Nips the power of God and we showed them their emperor was powerless to stop us. We forced unconditional surrender and the emperor renounced his divinity, sparing the us armed forces a bloody invasion of japan, in which more people would have probably died than died in the bombings.
>In late 1937, over a period of six weeks, Imperial Japanese Army forces brutally murdered hundreds of thousands of people–including both soldiers and civilians–in the Chinese city of Nanking (or Nanjing) >hundreds of thousands
Japan declared total militarization of their nation, thereby setting a precedent that all civilians were enlisted combatants.
Men, women, and children quit every activity of their normal lives to go work in factories making tanks, planes, and bombs to fuel the war effort.
When we dropped the bombs, we only hit soldiers, and this was on top of sending them repeated warnings. Our messages even circumvented their monarchy and media in an attempt to persuade their soldiers to surrender.
Without using the bombs, we wouldn't understand the weight of using the bombs. Another way of saying it is... how would we know how terrible it would be to use on people if we had never used it on people?
>>717507868 Can't justify it, but retards use the a bombs like they were the worst. A bombs were no worse then fire bombing, which every side did during ww2, including the Japanese to the chinese. Worst bombings of ww2 weren't hiroshima or nagasaki...
Another one of the reasons we dropped the bomb was to stop the daily slaughter of thousands of Chinese during the Japanese occupation. Instead of negotiating a peace treaty (which would have taken months), we instead forced a quick total surrender and therefore saved thousands of Chinese lives.
>>717509670 They estimated that the war would not end until 1951 or 1952 if not for the atomic bombs. "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" were the only A-bombs that we had at the time and it would take us several months to finish another. I believe that if the Japanese had known that they were our only 2, they would not have surrendered. Even after the destruction and death at Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
By saving a projected 2 million american lives from dying to a country who will defend its homeland to the last kamikaze pilot because their culture is based upon not being humiliated and preserving honor. libtards so dumb.
>>717507868 Either we nuked them or they wouldn't have stopped. Also, the amount of people lost to the nuke was far less then the amount that would have been lost if the war had continued going. /thread
You faggots really need to spend some more time browsing /his/
Japan Got Nuked Primarily because after Russia defeated Nazi Germany it raced to engage Japan with the invasion of Manchuria.
Russia was literally on Japan's Doorstep and because the Alliance with America - The Americans would have to carve up Japan with the Russians and they absolutely did not want this. Russia was literally weeks away from entering Japan when the bomb was dropped.
>>717507868 They didn't give a fuck about their civilians and thought we were bluffing. It was a fucking act of war, ya shithead. Anyone who sees it as a terrorist attack or otherwise needs to go sit in the high chair at the adult table, since they're such fucking babies.
>largely defeated island >ready to surrender as long as they don't have to renounce the Emperor >a bunch of big boys in your military oppose doing it >drop not one but two on civilian targets anyway because you kind of want to see what your new toy can do and because afraid of Russia >try and justify it ever since by saying you would have lost troops in that war that you were fighting
They were and still are heavily influenced by their completely messed up perception of honor and extreme elder worship, only now they don't have any military. There is a well justified fear, based on the Battle of Saipan, that when america invaded the mainland, jap citizens would start committing suicide in the hundreds of thousands.
My grandfather was an enlisted solider operating in the pacific theater, all i know is that what ever happened there, he spent the rest of his life drinking scorching hot black coffee, smoking 4 packs a day, and barely ever spoke a single word to anyone ever again.
>>717511998 Nigga if the shoe was on the other foot the japs woulda dropped a nuke on pearl harbor dont even play that shit. This whole argument can be boiled down to when you were a kid playing golden eye and the other kid picked up the golden gun and 1 hit kill you for 6 kills and you had to sit their like a bitch and take it because he got the gun before you did, youre doing the equivalent of "play fair, gimme a chance!" Except in fucking reality why the fuck would you give your enemy ANY FUCKING CHANCES, yeah shit sux, japan got their shit pushed the fuck in and if they had been lucky enough to get nukes before us then we would have got ours pushed in instead thats just how things fucking go.
>>717509117 During the peak of the cold war in the 70's 80's, the Soviets and US avoided going hot because of the memory of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those two uses of 1st gen atomic bombs literally prevented WWIII.
>>717512601 They kept fighting after two atomic bombs were dropped on them. There was a general (forgot his name) who wanted a third atomic bomb to be dropped, but the President had decided to send in a massive air-raid with around 300 fighter planes. Japan surrendered right as the planes arrived.
1) The Japanese were not going to surrender. They were prepping suicide boats to Kamikaze our ships as we landed on the beach. They were going to go down fighting. The Japanese Army which had been fucking around in Manchuria was mostly untouched. The USA had been throat fucking the NAVY only, the Jap Army was pretty much fine. Estimates on a ground invasion of Japan put casualties at more than a million, most of that being Japanese defenders. The nuclear bombings actually saved lives.
2) The Soviets were massing in Manchuria to start stomping a mud hole into the Japanese Army. Had the Soviets had the time to mass and send their troops in we might have had a Communist Japan. Which would have been a festering shit hole instead of the #3 world economy of today. At the time, any nation needs to protect its own interests first, so the bombings let us scoop up Japan. In hindsight, it's a good fucking thing Capitalism got there first.
3)The Japanese were seriously messed up fuckers. They did shit as bad or worse than the Nazis. Yes, the war wasn't started because of that, but still, a moral right is a moral right.
>>717507868 If it had not been done, they were only a few weeks away from busting out shit loads of aircraft stockpiled in caves. The nazi's were only a month or so away from their own nuke. You like sour kraut? I fucking dont
>>717511998 Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima house military depots and ports making them extremely high targets, plus Operation Downfall would've costed everyone involved atleast a million casualties, so I think a couple hundred thousand japs is justified
>>717513078 Id agree with every point you made but 3, i think the allies were doing equally shady and reprehensible shit ( thats the nature of war) but when you win a war you get to villify the enemies and make your side the heroes, and really why not? It helps the country transition into peace time
>>717509996 We had more than those 2 bombs...bitch was, they were sitting at the port in California. Side note...we dropped a shit load of concrete filled 'fat man' and 'little boy' dummies as training for the real bomb pilots.
"As an example, after the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II, the Japanese military tortured a captured American P-51 fighter pilot, Marcus McDilda, in order to discover how many atomic bombs the Allies had and what the future targets were. McDilda, who knew nothing about the atomic bomb nor the Manhattan Project, "confessed" under torture that the U.S. had 100 atomic bombs and that Tokyo and Kyoto were the next targets. McDilda's false confession may have swayed the Japanese leaders' decision to surrender."
It was faster and more effective than fire bombing jap city's look up the fire bombing of Tokyo. I would rather be nuked than die in a firestorm from fire bombing.and it was war that's makes the act justavible
>>717515565 Japan had unprecedented power and control over Asia during that time, with no oversight or international outcry from anyone other than its victims. What makes you think they *didn't* do it on that scale?
>>717507868 the japanese were relentless and they didnt have a value for human life so conventional warfare didnt faze them. It took something big like the atomic bombs to make them realize that they would not win.
>>717517047 because it's odd that all these years later Nanking is really the only big name that can come up, if they were genuinley going around raping places to the ground until no one was left then how out of all the territory they managed to reach do we just hear about this one little place? Considering where Nanking is located it just feels in general like the perfect place the Chinese party would pick to take a semi-real story and exaggerate it
>>717517591 It's always been a problem. It's just that everything else China's been having to do since then (civil war, dealing with Mao, reforms, etc) were enough to put it on the back-burner, more or less. The only places in China not ruined by Japan were farther inland.
>>717512149 To be fair everything else in that doc about the US using the Cold War and the delusional "spreading democracy" horse shit only to further our own economic interests was pretty spot on. The amount of radical dictators who gassed/tortured/slaughtered their own people with our full support and funding because of our fear of a differing economic policy is staggering.
>>717507868 You cant Its one of the worst war crimes in human fucking history and America needs to pay for it Everyone uses that same retarded "Japan wouldnt surrender" excuse, no fucking shit we wouldnt surrender. If you had one if the largest empires on earth, and some cocksuckers start a giant fight and then demand "total surrender" of literally everything you own, you're not going to ive it all up. If America had stopped for a fucking second and decided not to be the imperialist shit eaters they are, and end on amicable peace, Japan would have whole heartedly accepted it. But no, America absolutely MUST have everything from Japan to Korea to stop communism, despite the fact that Japan had a much bigger bone to pick with the commie rus than the Americans by far. The entire situation could have been avoided if America said, you can keep your dignity and territories, but you have to help us battle communism
>>717519024 >actual records of chinese soldiers being ordered to execute anyone, civilian or soldier attempting to evacuate nanjing >the whole story coming from a Nazi diplomat ordered to keep alliance with china and give allies a reason to look the other way when Germany began expanding
>>717518686 >bombs another country unprovoked >after getting ass handed to them, expects amicable terms of surrender where they get to stop whenever they want and keep everything >talking about communism when that's completely irrelevant
Sorry faggot, you don't get to attack people and then keep your dignity and territories just because you're losing, that's not how it works.
Not sure why you're referring to your own people as "cocksuckers" but I guess I can't deny the accuracy of it
>>717519474 >implying photo doctoring didnt exist >implying you cant put chinks in uniforms and have them do dirty work for a penny >implying a modern army with as big and honor complex as Japan goes around murdering babies Allies told the world the krauts did the same thing in ww1, with similar photo evidence, its the oldest propaganda tactic in the book
>>717507868 >tell them to fuck off with their conquest shit. >they dont. >warn them we had a new superweapon. >they dont give a fuck. >actually dropped one. >They take note, before continuing what they were doing before >tell them to fuck off again >no fucks given >we drop another. >they concede. >MURICA
>>717519711 Embargos that were put in place specifically because Japan had already started invading countries for the purpose of empire expansion. Was the US just supposed to continue to aid and support Japan in its ruthless conquest? Try again asshat
>>717520046 Keep telling yourself Japan was a helpless victim even though all the historical evidence clearly indicates you brought it on yourselves. Maybe you shouldn't have started randomly invading other countries if you didn't want repercussions.
Alright OP, tell me what would have been better: The entire Russian army and combined US Army and Marines gutting Japan and killing/raping millions, then dividing the country like Korea Or Two atomic bombs killing 300,000 or so people and irradiating the place for a few years.
>>717520546 >empires the entire pacific Yep, we made strategic allies like any smart country would. A little different than randomly showing up and slaughtering civilians with plans to annex their territory
>>717521057 And it was a fucked up thing to do, I admit. But that's not a post-WWII event so it's not within the context of what you were referring to. Now that I've accepted what my country did wrong, how about you do the same instead of being an arrogant dipshit?
>>717521576 I went there after I finished my freshman year midshipman cruise. Talking with the local youth about WWII would always elicit half-assed justifications of the war, though I remember the older generation being more open to admitting extreme fault in the japs' actions
>>717511998 >ready to surrender as long as they don't have to renounce the Emperor This is the agreement that they signed after they got nuked. Beforehand they wanted what would be closer to a ceasefire and would have led Japan to rearm and begin hostilities again in a decade or two.
Both cities were military targets - major centers of the military industrial complex. Even the children there were trained to hug explosives and roll under American tanks. Liberal dipshits 80 years later pretend like both cities were peace loving and full of kids skipping around licking lollipops. They started the war, and we finished it. We made it so terrible for them that they have not made a single aggressive posture since then. Fucking success.
>>717521857 I live in Japan now. What they were taught in school about Japan's involvement in ww2 is totally different from what we were taught. They pretty much think it was totally justified, and have absolutely no knowledge of any various atrocities committed by the Japanese government before or during the war.
>>717507868 Not using the atomic bomb would have required a full scale invasion of the Japanese mainland thereby resulting in many times the casualties. The Japanese government was training civilian militias with the express intention of repelling an Allied invasion. This poorly trained and under equipped militia, combined with the suicidal end of war military tactics would have created a massacre. /thread closed
Really? They should be thankful honestly. Instead of turning their country into rubble and then going home, we took a very Roman approach by rebuilding their country and making their defense one of our highest priorities as it still is today. The result is that they have been brought into our sphere of allies and protected nations, and they have greatly prospered under it.
>>717509703 Yeah I never understood this either, and have never heard a satisfactory answer (not that I've researched one mind you). You certainly aren't gonna get one here amid all the edgy trolling. All I've ever got from relatives and the like has been "because they wouldn't have quit otherwise". Wouldn't it have been MORE effective to drop on a primary military base? Or the emperor's castle? Maybe those targets were too guarded? I'd say fear-motivated public pressure but seems unlikely that the emperor gave a fuck about the public, otherwise he wouldn't have started shit in the first place.
>>717525904 World War II was all about economic output Destroying military bases kills some easily replaceable troops but does nothing to reduce the enemy's ability to produce more weapons, fuel, bombs, ammunition, vehicles, etc. Destroying cities removes factories, workers and infrastructure necessary for production
My old man fought those short little savages to the finish in Okinawa,and would have most likely died during mainland invasion. I owe my own timeline to the bomb,as he produced me decades later...he also brought home some sweet swag I ended up with...
>>717527602 >My old man fought those short little savages to the finish in Okinawa,and would have most likely died during mainland invasion. I owe my own timeline to the bomb,as he produced me decades later...he also brought home some sweet swag I ended up with... Same here only I spend all my time sitting at home, unemployed, and dressing like Naruto. Dad cries a lot. I think the war gave him PTSD.
>>717528126 My old man had me in his 50s,thus I didn't spend many years with him before he died. But his war stories only came out when he drank,and he'd seen some shit. He was ironically stationed in Japan after the surrender,and took pics of Nagasaki months after the bomb,I still got em...
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