>>717468415 im an atheist, not doing it for the edge. its more about how the only presentable evidence for god is a book written by fallible humans. and when asked how they know i get a response like "you cant disprove him" thats no where near enough evidence or argumentative logic for me to believe in a god. yea the guy in the picture is a bit of a dumbass, but most atheists at least the ones ive met are just average people who dont see enough reason to believe in a transcendental entity. Im open for discussion if you'd like to speak about theism though.
>>717469790 Yeah, true Point to the fiction Thing. Or better boosting Events bigger then they realy where. Maybe some of that stuff happened. But like all media it gets hyped to a certain Point where it Looks totaly Alien to us now.
Who knows what is real. I believe in the chaotic order of everything and nothing. And the afct that we all fight for Change and shit.
Really, I don't know why this is up for debate. Not because I have a strong opinion on the one or other side, but if you break it down, every religious debate ends with the question if you believe or not. There will never be solid evidence of "god" or another almighty entity to exist, nor will there be evidence against it. Dunno, believe whatever you feel like, as long as you don't get on my nerves. Been an agnostic, since my parents put up the question if i wanted to be in church. Never cared or missed something, but who knows, maybe I'm going to find myself being faithful as fuck. I studied philosophy and i really find this to be a non-debate, cause there are few solid evidence based arguments.
>>717468415 I have, in fact, met a few in real life, however, I suspect most of them of being attention whores. Why would a true atheist waste so much time and energy explaining to others this disbelief?
to Americans god is Yahweh, to Indians he is Vishnu, to Arabs he is allah. The truth does not act this way, in America 2+2=4, in India, and in the Arab world 2+2 is also 4.
You see the funny thing about the truth is that it will remain true, even if you weren't raised to believe it. The truth does not require indoctrination, communities, traditions, institutions, governments, apologetics, stigmatization, tribalism, incentives, or punishments. Yet without these things religion would utterly disappear, never to resurface. The truth however will remain true and available to be discovered even if nobody spreads it. Whether it be by the edge of a sword, the point of a gun, the explosion of a bomb, or from a parent to a child.
maybe one day, religious people will ask themselves why religion requires so many dirty tricks to be believed.
well im open to discussion, the concept of believing in god seems just as idiotic to me.
As nature reclaims abandoned American homes, as our infrastructure crumbles, and our science standards fall behind. 4000 new tax exempt churches pop up in america ever year. not for Santa, or the tooth fairy but for this so called god. There are hundreds of thousands of them outnumbering schools, restaurants, stores, museums etcetera. These churches fill my neighbors and friends heads with ideas and notions of god. A god who’s everywhere all at once. but despite this they have to go to the church to give him money. then they go knocking on my door with their supposed holy book, waking me up, every weekend. not to tell me about santa or the tooth fairy, but to tell me about god. At my door to tell me how “broken” or “unworthy” i am. if all this were done in the name of santa or the tooth fairy, might you have something to say about it? The book of this supposed god is the best selling book of all time. Not because people want to read it, but because it gets pushed upon everybody. laid atop every church seat, or stuffed in a hotel room drawer, given freely to children, or grasped in the sweaty grip of every preacher on the street corner with his blow horn waxing poetic about my impending torture.
>>717469790 There's no precedent set for Quetzalcoatl existing though. Nobody actually believes he exists anymore so he is bad example.
Christians think other religions are misinterpretations of YHWH anyway so it's not that they don't believe in Krishna or Quetzalcoatl, it's that they believe the representations by Hindus and Aztecs were incorrect and/or Satan worship. Thus the "you're atheist about Zeus" argument is folly.
>>717472545 >>717472330 2/2 there it is written by people no different than you telling us how and what to believe. they aren’t talking about the Santa or the tooth fairy, but if they were might you have something to say about it? you say America was based upon christian values not santa or tooth fairy values, and few politicians are even considered electable without this obligatory “god bless america”. no different than it appears on countless billboards and bumper stickers, placating the masses all who need you to be like them, unlike santa. our lives are governed by these politicians whose policies are dictated by the “God believing” majority, not the “santa believing majority”. But if it were might you have something to say about it? Because these politicians profess to believe in the same just and good god as you, of course we would expect them to behave most ethically, but do they, of course not. contrary to that its the non-believes who aren’t trusted, maybe thats because of the slander spread about us from self-proclaimed “fair and balanced news”, all the way to the book of romans the propaganda from ages past which they parrot, often without thought or empathy, or maybe its because we dare to object against this supposed god. If this situation were reversed might you have something to say about it? to put it bluntly, i don’t talk about God because I know he exists; i talk about god because I know you exist.
>>717468415 not a neckbeard nor virgin, but i do have unanswered questions that are never answered by the theists who purport to know god. Well, if the Abrahamic God exists, then He needs to be told a few things. The things He needs to be told, in turn tells us volumes about His true nature: that God’s specific type of localized old world ignorance curiously coincides with the localized old world ignorance of those who told us of Him. Furthermore, Billions of people claim to “know” God. How could they all be wrong? Simple. Just listen to them. If ten people claim to know your friend Jimmy, yet they all describe Jimmy in different, incompatible ways, then either they don’t know Jimmy, or Jimmy has been doing some lying. The argument i often here next revolves around morality, so to you i pose a question. That question is “is murder wrong because its wrong, or is it wrong because god says its wrong. if its wrong because its wrong morality doesn't require god but if its wrong because god says its wrong morality requires god.” This is perhaps due to plain ignorance or emotional bias, many religious folks think and spout divine command theory as if it hadn’t been soundly defeated thousands of years ago. The funny result is that theists are often operating under the misapprehension that atheists cannot account for morality, when in actuality, it’s exactly the reverse. Now id like to say, God does have a creator, but it might not be who you think it is. Ironically, it was God who was intelligently designed - not us. Id like to end by saying If the Abrahamic God is real, then He cares more about the rapist's freedom to rape, and the murderer's freedom to murder, than He cares about the lives of their victims. The free will which i hear bout constantly, is not free but instead is based in favorability, and gods incompetence.
>>717473231 And somehow here you are wrong. If you accept the fact that you are a victim you will be one. So step up and move up to rank.
To the God has a creator as well. I would say the Lovecraftians may have the right idea. But then Atheists don't believe. So the question is do they exist? If yes then they believe in something. They have a Goal. And even believeing in Science is a Religion of their own. So checkmate.
But who am i to judge People. I mean Satanism was created by someone who worked on a carnival. And Atheists follow the church of Science.
>>717472609 Sorry but you are insane if you do not see that religion/belief in god is in decline, and on its way to extinction. Also, in a completely atheistic society (nothing against it, per se) YOU could easily be targeted, as they naturally will have less inhibitions. I myself, see no reason to spending my life disproving fairy tales, that are mostly irrelevant, and on the decline.
>>717474241 its not my lifes quest to take down the religious establishment. however, i did at one point under bushs presidency write that as part of an essay. so now, religious fanaticism is on the decline, but i think to some degree i want to see some of my questions answered.
>>717474227 contrary, claiming victim in a state where theres no victimization to be had is a complex.
no, they dont "believe in something" i believe in reality whats testible, i dont believe in something without evidence. Science is an objective testible model of reality, it doesnt require belief for it is the most accurate perspective on reality.
>>717468415 Oh go on, I'll bite. I don't believe in a god - the idea of a supreme being who created eveything tutting and ticking some box on a piece of paper everytime I touch myself for pleasure is something I find ridiculous. I am a nice person though, I don't need the threat of eternal damnation to be nice or charitable to other people (of any or none religions) when required (without stating my belief!). I do it because it's nice to do so, and if everyone did the world would be a nicer place. Just to annoy you I have two children who were born out of wedlock. I live with my girlfriend of 19 yrs (we're not married) and if you think that's wrong that's just fine - I genuinely couldn't give a flying fuck. I only replied to your post to make you feel better and superior to me :)
>>717474842 You've literally never tested anything yourself, yet you cling to "science" or what has been told to you. Honestly, how many studies or tests have you done to prove anything that has been taught to you? Do you know why the sky is blue? Do you know anything about space travel? Are all the elements accounted for in your own collection? Is everything of to real? If you honestly think science is the only pure honest untainted thing on the planet your a moron. Science is and always has been conducted by men who want to be famous and the truth doesn't mean shit to them.
>>717474842 Depends. I mean if you are hapy to be Held down then so be it. But sometimes a small fire turns into something bigger. It is all in nature and the reaction to a chain of Events. Sure still a bad Thing, but hey, see it that way. You can decide wha you do.
You know People want to turn the believeing in reality into a Religion of its own? And like i said. So many Atheists or People who chant that god is death follow science like a Religion of their own. Only that their gods are the scientists.
>>717470473 I'm American. Fuck your sadistic YHWH, and take my ass to Valhalla, pretty please. Drink, fuck, fight, repeat. Sounds great. Just hope there's a pinball machine or some shit. Anything gets boring after an eternity.
>>717475702 On what? The fact that i would Punch someone on the face for the fact that he does the same to me (Statement one1)
Or the fact that all the edgy scientists Followers have their own Religion called science? Which is funny. Cause science is much more then a answer to "Thats why God and all religions are dead you Little blind sheep" (Statement 2)
If you say i am somehow wrong so please Point to the Thing i may be wrong about?
>>717474657 Agnostic CAN be a position, but it usually a descriptor of 2 positions. Agnostic Theists believe there is a god, but do not know for fact. Agnostic Atheists do not believe there is a god but cannot know for sure. Anyone claiming to be purely agnostic simply hasn't done any research and is too lazy to de IDE if they believe god claims or not. It's fucking asinine.
>>717475816 Then you are not ready for Valhalla Welp. There is no fun like drinking and fighting. Day after day after day. For all eternity to bath in the glory of a good fight and then to raise the Horns to fill you stomach with met. That is the glory of Valhalla.
>>717468415 dude religion is really just an american thing right now. europe is basically christian but people don't really believe in it anymore. thinking logically and believing - really believing in a god portrayed by any religion is incompatible.
sure, there might be something outside of our perception that we can't measure (yet), but to claim you know what it is and how it created the universe and everything... that's just silly.
If you didn't realize already, there are only three groups of people >Theist >Atheist >Sensible People The two group listed above likes to talk about their belief, where the others will keep their damn belief to themselves since it don't really fucking matter anyway
>>717468415 The concept of personifying omnipotence is stupid to me. If there is a "god", how the fuck can it have an inclination to good or evil when both are a perception of how you think? Bullshit. Having no answer is the best answer, if you're not on the fence you really haven't thought about it.
>>717476966 You've clearly done fuckall research. You're claiming agnosticism to be the right position when it is a prefix to Atheism or Theism, dipshit. That's like claiming the engine is the correct part of a car to be a car and ignoring the other parts required. You pseudointellectual dipshit.
>>717475483 this doesnt warrant a proper response, but ill give a rudimentary one. Blue light is scattered in all directions by the tiny molecules of air in Earth's atmosphere. Blue is scattered more than other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves. This is why we see a blue sky. astrophysics has never been my forte, but nasa .gov should give you all you need on space travel. i dont "Collect" elements, oddly enough i dont like the radioactive ones. or the ones artificially created in a lab that arent even available to the public. No, science isnt a closed subject its always changing, but the fact is science is still the closest thing to reality we have.
>>717477124 MA could work. Mix in weapons and your afterlife in Valhalla will be fun. You will Encounter various good warriors, you will drink a lot of good alcohol and you will also fight the Owners of the Halls as well and you can say that eternity never will be boring.
These threads are fucking cheap. Mention religion or atheism, and you automatically get several responses. When have you ever seen such threads 404'd immediately, without any response? People need to move the fuck on and forget these boring subjects!
>>717477450 Yup, its from the Middle Earth legendarium "The Silmarillion." About the past leading up to the events of the hobbit and the lord of the rings and how the events after lord of the rings would have been fucking nuts.
>>717477497 No. No. This isn't opinion. This is language. Agnostic is to Pre as (A)theism is to Algebra. There are very few WHOLLY agnostic people in the world, and I can't see how anyone could look at all the evidence available and be like "Well there's just no way to tell!" The theistic evidence is folly at best, bronze age bed time stories to make heathens behave. It was the smaller caveman with the bigger stick. It's like threatening to have a nuke and never showing any evidence of it ever. So if you're truly, completely agnostic, I can almost guarantee you that it's from lack of trying.
>>717478375 And you're so limp dicked that you actually picked a side. Your version of reality is different from others, always has been always will be, you have never convinced anybody differently, and you never will. Go sulk about it somewhere, pansy.
>>717468415 >Have you ever met an atheist I met a real life atheist once...like a hardcore one he had burn marks all over his body in designs (like tattoos but they were branded instead of using ink and a needle)
He was actually a very chill, friendly guy, but obviously off in the head a bit
>>717479245 yea except hell is physically impossible considering pain is a purely physical sensation achieved through neurons and chemicals. so when one dies guess what, you cat feel pain because you dont have a body to feel it.
>>717479245 Fuck YHWH. Hard. In his ever-infinite asshole he has for no reason, since we're made in his image. He's a gimped piece of shit. And so are his followers. I could design a better human than YHWH managed to do with infinite time to think on it.
>>717479439 Then you haven't been reading Scripture. Sinners like you will be given bodies that can feel even greater pain and will not be damaged by it. You could feel agony for hundreds of years until the Devil switches to another punishment.
>>717479245 Good luck with that. Most atheists have actually read the bible so they can successfully and intelligently argue with piss-filled-skull jesus-wankerz. Wave yo bible at me and expect to be looking at a bloody stump where your rosary beads + wank-hand used to be...
>>717468415 Atheism doesn't mean you don't believe in a god, it just means you don't practice theism (i.e. worship a god or practice a religion). It IS idiotic to think that there is no being that men would call God, but:
1. It may not be what we view as sentient 2. It may or may not have created the universe intentionally 3. It may or may not be aware of our existence
To assume that number 2 and 3 are positive (that it did/is) is idiotic as fuck.
>>717479586 citation needed. beyond that if we were given new bodies the next implication is we have an eternal souls to put into that body. and once again what humans call consciousness is just neurons communication and working in tandum to achieve thought and other functions. the reason we know a "Soul" doesn't exist beyond what i said is in split brained people, the right and left half of the brain works independently without a singular consciousness.
>>717479789 No, dipshit, Atheism is the position of rejecting all theistic claims made this far. You can't believe there's some god and be an atheist. Not how it works buddy. Learn your Latin roots. A -Prefix meaning without. Theist - Suffix for "belief in god(s)", so say it with me: Atheist - Without belief in god(s).
>>717478375 just stop. all the evidence in the world isn't enough to prove there isn't something you can't prove. otherwise you'd claim omniscience.
there is always more to discover. just as we learned how matter consists of atoms, we will someday learn something that will put our current perception of reality into perspective. and i'm not talking about religion or a "higher power" - i'm talking about science and things we can't explain yet.
so get off your high horse and admit to not knowing everything. it's simple.
Atheistfag here, can someone tell me if Christians actually exist or if it's just fictional characters in American movies who believe in an imaginary friend in the sky. Have you ever met a Christian in real life, because I only see them in movies, the concept of believing in a god is just idiotic to me.
>>717480558 >implyng the overwhelming majory of atheists aren't young men who live either with their parents or in a college dorm accumulating debt. What are statistics? Who needs those! I have anecdotal evidence!
>>717480683 You don't understand. This isn't about "citations" or "proving" anything. Your fathers and your fathers fathers believed in God and so will you and your sons and your sons sons. This is the Order of things.
>>717480762 Provide these supposed statistics and I'll agree. But 90% of the highest Scientific Advancement organisation are atheist. That alone proves your narrative false. Unless you think all Masters Degree scientists live in their mother's basements.
>>717480840 i asked for one verse of when hell gives us a new body to be tortured, not only cant you supply that. you think just because the average of order of things for a long time is the only truth. all that is a series indoctrination, communities, traditions, institutions, governments, apologetics, stigmatization, tribalism, incentives, or punishments. Yet without these things your religion would utterly disappear never to resurface. when your only argument is based on some dirty tricks, its not a strong argument.
>>717468415 I am a 100% flesh and blod atheist, but the word is misleading I guess. It is not that I do not believe in God, it is more that I dont find the defenition of God as something on which I can say to have an opinion. It is like asking me to discuss if I believe in colors that I cannot see based on your description, it is far to subjective.
>>717481014 >But 90% sounds made up to be honest. Atheists, in general, are more likely to be male and younger than the overall population; 68% are men, and the median age of atheist adults in the U.S. is 34 (compared with 46 for all U.S. adults). Atheists also are more likely to be white (78% are Caucasian vs. 66% for the general public) and highly educated: About four-in-ten atheists (43%) have a college degree, compared with 27% of the general public. Combine that with the common trait of young people of this generation living with mommy and daddy and that's the basis for what I'm saying.
>>717468415 I am one. No, I will not attempt to disprove any "god", but to believe that they are relevant to humans is childish. Have fun being manipulated into worshiping the fourth dimensional beings that had to slum it in 3D because they were too autismo to get along in 4D.
>>717481895 12 years is a pretty long time considering it's for ALL atheists. Considering the population and the growth of atheism it's fair to assume many of these atheists are in college or of that age group.
>>717481186 It's actually stubborn cases like you that make it necessary to use force on non-believers. If you would simply stop succumbing to Temptation, you wouldn't need to be brought back kicking and screaming to the fold.
>>717482007 dude religion is really just an american thing right now. europe is basically christian but people don't really believe in it anymore. thinking logically and believing - really believing in a god portrayed by any religion is incompatible.
sure, there might be something outside of our perception that we can't measure (yet), but to claim you know what it is and how it created the universe and everything... that's just silly.
Religions view atheists as more dangerous than anti-theists. Anti-theists attack and fight religions because of their gods, with recognition and contempt. But Atheists have no reason to get involved with things that don't exist... Atheism already killed the gods. Religion has to fight against these non-combatants that in a blink of logic destroy entire belief systems.
>>717468415 I don't know any hardcore atheists, but i know a lot of people who are agnostic or simply just don't bother with anything. You know, the people who drink and party, don't go to church but don't really have a religious orientation.
I'm legitimately "Atheist" but that makes you sound like a faggot now so I just say "I'm not religious" or "I don't believe in a particular religion". The extreme God hating assholes need to stop making a bad name for people who just don't believe in God.
>I know this thread is b8, I'm just saying my opinion.
>>717482800 Religions view atheists as more dangerous than anti-theists. Anti-theists attack and fight religions because of their gods, with recognition and contempt. But Atheists have no reason to get involved with things that don't exist... Atheism already killed the gods. Religion has to fight against these non-combatants that in a blink of logic destroy entire belief systems
>>717482743 Guess it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication, my overly-angry friend. Dude was tagging his next posts. So, naturally, when I saw the first tagged post, I assumed it was a follow-up. Try not to let an internet image board rile you so badly.
>>717482336 Religion is dead in Europe because its inhabitants were forced to accept a desert religion unsuitable for the people or land. America has deserts and brown people so Christianity can still hold on longer there.
Also it was founded by those fleeing the pagan renaissance.
>>717482540 The god that doesn't fap along or the god that does?
>>717482211 Huh? Oh so you AGREE with indoctrinating the likes of us because you can't seem to accept the hard truth that such a thing is simply a made-up being from generations ago as their primitive minds were able to be tricked into such nonsense as they neither had the capacity or development of thought to think otherwise. Face facts, a being which was imagined by humans in a primitive age is being rejected in modern society as unlike yourself who likely bent over backwards and accepted such a brainwashing we are able to see through such stupidity. Your tradition is not sticking with the newer generation and it will rot away as time progresses. You cannot force lies when the truth is already exposed, away with you.
>>717483101 I'm trying to understand this 'soul' you are claiming exists. Help me understand something about it. What's it look like? How does it get to 'heaven'? Is it lighter than air or does it use a propulsion system? Help us out here...
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