Communism is inevitable, and it will prevail. When do you guys

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probably some infinite amount of time in the future, because, technically, it won't rise again

>>717326561
Soon after the second big facism in Europe.
And thats near soon.

Why anyone idolizes an ideology that led to the largest slaughters of one's own countrymen in history is beyond me.

>>717326741
So, people idolizing Fascism?

>>717326561
Communism is not inevitable.

The contridctions inherent in capitalism make the decline of the capitalist system inevitable. The system with it's goal of expotenitally growing profits, growth for the sake of growth in a sense, makes it unsustainable as well.

The issue is what will replace liberal capitalism. It could be Communism, but it's not inevitably Communism.

>>717326913
I was talking about communism.

In America, the Left is growing at a decent rate now.

SRA has grown by ~1k people since the election
Many of the Socialist and Communist parties have grown considerable.

Many of the young democrats are seeing the DNC's corruption and are shifting towards more typical DemSoc ideologies at minimum. Some have become Marxist instead, others Anarchist.

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>>717326714
The Worker's struggle won't go unrecognized,
I'd give it another 10-20 years.

>>717326729
More like America with Trump in office for 4,
possibly even 8 years. Fascism will appear
in Europe again though.

>>717326741

>slaughters of one's own countrymen

You're thinking of Stalin and his corruption, his
heart growing dark and ruining the revolution
that Lenin had set up. Also, there are also
examples of Communism throughout history
that weren't authoritarian, like the Spanish
Anarchists in 1936. Anarcho-Communism.
Also the fucking fascists throughout history
that have killed an equal amount of people, if
not worse.

>>717326938
I disagree, but I see what you mean.

>>717327131
And Mao. Why the fuck do all you commies act like fascism is the only alternative to communism?

>>717327037
So the 600k to 3Mil who died from Communism in the USSR during the Purges out weighs the 6-11 Million Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Reds, and others who died at the hands of the Nazi Regime?

Communism never works it cant sustain itself, name one country where it worked

Lazy parasites waxing philosophical about workers.

>>717327246
Well, if you go historically prior to the term Communism being coined, the Iroquois were very close to it.

>>717326913
One form of socialism is better than another form socialism.

>>717327213
The fact that your rebuttal to criticisms of communism is a criticism of fascism when I'm not a fascist really proves that your ideology sucks.

>>717327336
They didn't live in a modern and developed society. They were all farmers, hunters and gatherers.

>>717327447
How is Fascism socialist?

It''s not. At all.

>>717327131
Fascism is appearing in Europe because of marxist ideas and the SJW parade, plus the shitload of "immigrants" raping the ethnic population of europe and lowering average IQ, school scores and exponentially increasing the crime rate.

Communists are almost as stupid as Ancaps, and I sincerely hope on your behalf that you're just baiting really hard.

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>>717326561
as soon as this asshole takes office

>>717326561
Every generation seems to have a few idiots who still believe it will work. Sometimes they rise to the top like in Venezuela. They they destroy the country and it's back to square one.

>>717327477
I was responding to the fact that you are claiming the Communism killed the most in history. While in fact it is Fascism that killed more.
Also, I'm not communist anyway.

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>>717326561
When the number of people outweighs the amount of jobs for them. Also around when automation replaces human capital.

>Cyka blyat
>rush b

>>717327477
>>They didn't live in a modern and developed society. They were all farmers, hunters and gatherers.

Still a form of Communism.

And if you want more technologically advanced ones look at Rojava currently.

>>717327246
Granted these were all short lived before being crushed by other imperialist forces but:

The Paris Commune
The Free Ukrainian Territory
The various Communes in Spain during the civil war

>>717327131
>"I disagree, but I see what you mean."

Could I ask why you disagree?

This whole "Communism is inevitable" started because of a misinterpretation of Dialectical Materialism (Diamat). The whole point is not that Communism is inevitable, but that Capitalist decline is inevitable. The obviously solution is to create a Communist society in which are free and equal, but this isn't guaranteed. We could end up destroying our planet before that happens.

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>>717327072
Unless the politicians who claim to represent
the People actually do their job instead of
focusing what is profitable to them and their
colleagues.

>>717327204
>>717327213

That's a big underestimate of those who were
killed, and had their lives ruined due to the
Nazi Regime. Not only were people killed, but
their families were destroyed, Germany was
left a mess and people are still affected by it
today.

>>717327246
Those that failed weren't because of
Communism itself, but countries like the U.S
who lead an economic war because they
politically disagree with the far left.

>>717327323
You're blind.

>>717327447
Fascism is incompatible with Socialism.
>inb4 Nazism
The term Nazi DOES mean National Socialism,
but that's in name only, their economics weren't
close to socialism and claiming to be the
champion of the working class like Hitler
claimed to be was propaganda to get the
workers on his side.

>>717327596
Mao Zedong and Stalin annihilating their own populations? "muh 6 million" isn't even close.

>>717327505
If you feel it, it is true.

>>717327674
Unless the politicians... profitable to their
colleagues, we can't trust things will change
without violent revolution. Sorry for not completing
the statement

>>717327131
The communist who says, "no, that was not real communism, which lead to millions of deaths, my communism is different!" is exactly the type of person you don't want to lead or follow. That type of person is a tyrant, motivated by niave good intentions which would end in blood.

>>717327723
How about some actual evidence?

>>717327674
>That's a big underestimate of those who were
killed, and had their lives ruined due to the
Nazi Regime. Not only were people killed, but
their families were destroyed, Germany was
left a mess and people are still affected by it
today.

About 100 million people has died from communism. Once again, "muh 6 million" ++ isn't even close.

>>717327795
This is overly simplistic and fails to grasp the material reasons for why the Russian and Chinese revolutions descended into authoritarianism.

Hint: you can't try to skip the capitalist phase of development.

>>717327131
Stalin didnt go "corrupt" read some fucking books that arent fucking propaganda.
Yes, some of the things done un the Urss were poorly done, but Stalin wasnt a devil. I dont feel like expanding more, but if you have a questions about him, I'll gladly answer if I can.

>>717327131
I find it hard to believe communism will take the same form it has had in the past. I mean are we aiming for reindustrializing europe again so the european workers can control the production of goods? While the climate is being obliterated? I mwan even this wave of fascism is more like a charade of fascism, there's no peoples movement behind the organizations like in the 30's.

>>717326561
>rise again
it wouldn't need to rise again if it was so fucking superior.

>>717327596
Mao and Stalin killed more people than Hitler.

>>717327668
Right and arguing for communism in the modern day while using a native american forest people as your example is ridiculous. Rojava is supported by western governments, it is not self sufficient. It has only been independent for a couple years.

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>>717327131
You dumb fuck

Read this book and still be a communist. Grow the fuck up.

>>717327830
You're pulling these numbers out of your ass.
Where are you getting this 100 million number
from? I need a credible source.

>>717327602
This has been true for quite a while now. The only result has been more suffering for the working and unemployed poor

>>717327861
Sure, bud

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>>717326561
Communist support server
https://discord.gg/nf76qYb
join the call?

>>717327131
Stalin didnt go "corrupt" read some fucking books that arent fucking propaganda.
Yes, some of the things done un the Urss were poorly done, but Stalin wasnt a devil. I dont feel like expanding more, but if you have a questions about him, I'll gladly answer if I can

>>717327795
The Democratic People's Republic of North
Korea calls itself a democracy. The name says
it is, therefore it must be! That means all
forms of democracy throughout history
are like North Korea.

certainly more people have been killed to protect capitalism than were killed to found communism

>>717327944
Mao zedong? Stalin? They massacred their own population.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=death+count+of+communism
Not going to spoonfeed you any more.

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>>717327985
Something will kick off soon, I'm sure. People are getting fed up.

>>717328065
NO TRUE SCOTSMAN NO TRUE SCOTSMAN WORDS DONT NEED DEFINITIONS STALIN WAS A GENUINE COMMUNIST I SWEAR

>>717328006
I know this is /b/ so trying actually deeply analyze the material reasons for why X and Y happened is typically discouraged and a re-hashed cookie cutter explanation is encouraged, but for something complicated like this, you should probably actually think about why the bureaucracy of the USSR solidified like it did into a power bloc.

>>717327944
Instead of being a retarded edgy faggot who supports communism to be edgy and different, maybe learn about the benefits of capitalism, how it actually works, and how it providedes the most wealth to the most people. Capitalism may be imperfect, but communism is just just flawed as fuck.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/13/communism-killed-94m-in-20th-century

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>>717327246
You fucking idiot do you even realise that communism is a stateless society?
Communist advocate for a society and without state and classes and to get there there is a transitional phase called the dictatorship of the proletariat where the low class gets the power from bourgeois hands. Fucking read some books you idiot.

>>717328241
Communism provided a lot of wealth to the communist party, so basically it's just as good as capitalism

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>>717328241
>"Capitalism may be imperfect, but communism is just just flawed as fuck."

Could you explain how actually?

>>717328287
Comments like these help me realize how retarded /b is. Jesus, pretty much everyone here is an autist.

>>717328287
Lol it never works you fuckhead. Nothing you say will change that.

>>717328195
Yeah. I mean how will any form of social peace last when jobs are quickly dissapearing in a society where you need a job to survive. I'm thinking states will respond with more militarisation of society or with programs like basic income. And a proletariat without a workers movement will turn to religious like death cults like jihadists or trump for salvation

>>717328375
then get out normie

Don't you have some baby's blood to drink

>>717328389
But we have historical examples of it working.

>>717328372
You need me to explain how communism is less efficient than capitalism at improving the lives of nearly everyone in a society? Really?

The worst part of Communism is that people are ignorant torwards it.
Sad they are mindless drone staring at their phones 24/7 being fed with Ads to feed their filthy consumer habits.

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>>717328241
>benefits of capitalism
see>>717328327

>>717328463
Fuck, you are trolling, almost had me, anon.

>>717328463
Also several anarchist collectives too

Too bad mean ol capitalism doesn't allow any other game in town

Terminally ignorant crapitalists get out

>>717328497
Yes. When it was done in say the Paris Commune, it greatly benefit the people. Same with the Ukrainians and Spanish before they got raped and slaughtered by capitalist forces.

>>717326561
I feel you OP, Communism is the only answer to our fucked up Capitalism. Anarchy would be even greater, but that's nearly impossible to implement.

>>717328497
I don't think anyone believes capitalism improves the livehood for all anymore anon

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>ran out of Lenin wallpapers that is below 2 mb,
this will have to do.

>>717328241

>benefits of capitalism

that's fucking funny dude, at the same time sad
that you've bought into this preconceived notion
that communism is automatically bad because
a communist did a bad thing. Also, give
examples that aren't cherry picked.
Reason com isn't a credible source, they're
already biased towards capitalism.

>>717326561
Communism can't come back if the marxists are dead.

My friends, I need to ask you one thing.
Crippled people, Old people, Mentally sick people, that can't contribute to society. Will you leave them to rot? That's what I would do.
My country's population is 1/5 old people, that cant contribute and live off my taxes.
They don't even contribute except to be lazy fucks.

>>717328603
>marxists are dead

um... there are marxists out there today,
you realize this right?

>>717328543
I'm not trolling.

Here are some historical examples:

The Paris Commune
Free Territory of Ukraine
Various Communes found in Spain during the civil war

All of these worked except that porky got a little scared of them and had them crushed militarily. They functioned well (as well as you can during a state of war) and showed great promise.

Communism has never really been implemented anywhere.

>>717328463
Tiny groups for less than 20 years is not a functional system for running a society you child.

>>717328571
>society can't defend itself from invasion
>taking it seriously

>>717328628
You won't ever be old someday?

>>717328576
>Anarchy would be even greater, but that's nearly impossible to implement.

Well I think we should see anarchy as something we create every day, rather than some utopian endpoint. We should always try to make our relationships with each other as non-hierarchical as possible, and the scopes of freedom as wide as possible

>>717328195
Maybe The Actions on J20 could set it into motion

>>717326561
Communism will never work because Humanity is flawed. All communist governments have ultimately been dictatorships and the people under those governments suffered just the same as before.
>meet the new boss, same as the old boss

>>717327939
>Mao and Stalin killed more people than Hitler.
And the US and our Puppets have killed more than Mao and Stalin

>>717328707
Yes
But I would accept my fate for the advance of society.
Only those that actually saved up for their future are the smart.
Old people should do stuff by themselves.
Not live off the youth.

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>>717328241
YEAH sure, please tell us how communism is more flawed than capitalism, you probably dont even know what communism is, judging by the fact you go with "communism killed 409999983828 quadrillion people" you dumb fuck. You actually believe an article with no fucking sources just because It pleases you.
By the way, if communism is bad because It lead to some people's death, then your beloved capitalism is horrible too.
If you want some examples, search information about the genocide in Indonesia or the War at Syria.

>>717328686
These are all such small groups that it's effectively meaningless. It doesn't work on the scale of a nation.

>>717328603
the ideas of Liberty and Justice will never ever die and capitalism can't control itself enough to ensure that it won't create the next crop of Marxists

>>717328778
Since when did the US massacre 85-100 million people all together?

>>717328778
Whataboutism again! Holy fuck when will you realize that if you have to point to some other bad guy to make your bad guy look better in comparison that you have nothing to offer?

>>717328767
How about go straight to No Boss instead of taking a New Boss who claims that he will dissolve his position in time

>>717328704

You know the Paris Commune was literally a single city against the rest of the French Empire and invading Prussians, right?

Like the fact it lasted three months is a fucking testament. Militarily it shouldn't have lasted 2 weeks.

The Free Ukrainian Territory lasted 3 years despite being invaded on two fronts by both other Ukrainian forces and by the Bolsheviks.

>>717328876
Well your the one claiming that the Communists killed the most. I'm just showing that's false

>>717328811
The point of syndicates and communes are that they are local... you will never find a "anarchy-state" or anarchyland, but probably instead locally governed communities that cooperate within a network

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>>717328852
Since its 'founding.'

>>717328811
This is the same kind of argument that Americans make when they say America can't have socialized medicine but there are countries much larger than America that have functioning social medicine

I think you're just brainwashed by capitalism and are grasping at straws

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>>717328885

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>>717328571
>capitalist forces

PLEASE 4CHAN HELP ME MY DAD HAS A GUN AND IS THREATENING ME TO SHOOT ME THIS ISNT SOME CANCEROUS MEME PLEASE HELP ME CALL THE POLICE PHONE NUMBER: 111
SAY DAVID IS BACK AT IT AGAIN SOMEONE HELP

>>717328964
I said they killed more than Hitler and I explicitly specified own countrymen.

>>717329048
>This is the same kind of argument that Americans make when they say America can't have socialized medicine but there are countries much larger than America that have functioning social medicine

Except for I'm actually right. You're naive as fuck and probably will grow out of this phase.

>>717328907
Capitalists sure do make a lot of appeals to force

It's almost like their voluntary system isn't quite as voluntary as they claim

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>>717326561
Democracy is the future you communist.

>>717328907
Cuba is a living example of the dictatorship of the proletariat, I dont understand how nobody brought It up

>>717329038
I see a pattern here... almost all of the countries
that are socialist or have some type of socialism
involved with them are/have been targeted.

>>717329157
kekd

>>717328686
So these "examples" got crushed by societies that were richer and more prosperous because they were capitalistic?

What, a great argument for communism! /s

>>717329165
Democracy is working pretty well with all the Lobbyism

>>717329165
And True Democracy is Direct and under a Non-Capitalist system.

You cannot have"Democracy" if the Corporations can just buy votes through Lobbying.

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>>717329204
Just as planned.

>>717329157
If your idea for a society includes difficulty in defending itself then it's a bad fucking idea for a society.

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>>717329165
Communism is direct democracy at its
fullest. Also democracy isn't a fucking economic
system.

>>717329275
Democracy for capitalism apologists is just democracy for the ruling class to vote on their interests through money. Since the elite obviously knows best

>>717329308
Hum, comrade, how is it full democracy if u cant vote?

>>717329398
False dichotomy.

>>717329213
No, because their capitalist rivals had many, many times more resources to work with. Ideology doesn't matter in warfare.

>>717329294
Holy shit. The Paris Commune was a single city against whole blocs of nations. They did absolutely insanely well for what they were going against.

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>>717329213
You actually expect a sixty year old new goverment with no actual experience of other economic and social management like the ones at the Commune to stand against the prusian army?

>>717329294
Ask the YPG if they can defend themselves.

>>717329213
killer capitalists at it again, lusting over death and claiming their violence is an "argument"

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6kbU88wu0

>>717329498
They wouldn't last a year without foreign aid and US air support. They are being held up by the most powerful entity to ever exist, they aren't holding things down on their own.

>>717329432
Because instead of voting, we would have direct
democracy. Research some of this shit instead
of just spewing what you hear from other people.
Learn what democracy truly is, you can have
voting and not have a democracy like the
constitutional republic that is the United States.

>>717329505
Scratch a liberal and you find a "might makes right" fascist 9/10 of the times.

Capitalism is working because workers are being exploited by the rich and wealthy. Of course you might think it's a good system if you're on the right side.

>>717329505
>>717329638
It's because you clowns are too idealistic to have anything of value. It doesn't matter what your imaginary utopia would be like if it would be destroyed by better societies.

That's why it exists in your imagination and not real life.

>>717329584
All sides are receiving support by superpowers, of course they wouldn't be able to single handedly stand their ground against saudi money and nato airstrikes. Point is they've prevailed and where the first geound forces to defeat ISIS while the "powerful" capitalist west was shitting itself of fear. Communists can defend themselves, just ask stalin if you still don't believe me

>>717329776
It wouldn't be destroyed tho. Checkmate

Fun Fact
I almost got kicked out of class in philosophy for backing up communism and saying how capitalism is flawed system.
More schools just brainwash you to support big corporations and be slaves torwards them.

>>717330038
Cool story

>>717329776
Before the French revolution we only had absolutism instead of democracy. Does that mean that democracy was an utopia because the absolutist had all the power?
no

>>717329927
Then why don't they exist?

>>717329845
NATO isn't striking the Kurds. Air support vs, no air support is a huge difference. Stalin slaughtered his people. Your system is dysfunctional and weak when democratic, and the most oppressive in history when it has a strongman force it to work. It is a shit ideology and a shit system supported by the naive, the dumb, the young, the sheltered and the weak.

>>717330038
There's more to that story that you're leaving out.

>>717329776
>Liberal calls the Communists "too idealistic"
>Says we want an imaginary utopia

God I love when people have no fucking idea what they're even talking about.

Hint: Communism at it's base is materialist, it's anti-idealist and anti-utopian.

>>717330038
It's kinda funny.

The Right claims that Schools try to brainwash the youth into believing socialism.

But Schools are organs of the State. So why would they try to brain was us into believing a system that threatens the states supremacy?

If anything they want to try and brain wash us into blindly supporting they State

>>717330183
>NATO isn't striking the Kurds.
What is Turkey?

>>717330163
Right except for commies have had their shot and it's been a fucking nightmare every time.

>>717330207
If it fails when it's tried or turns out as the worst governance in history, supporting it and expecting good results makes you idealistic. This is what happens when you read books but lack basic sense and life experience.

What's up with USA trying to corner Russia, just proves USA is a manchild that bullies other countries.

>>717330327
Turkey alone isn't NATO, NATO as an alliance. This is basic stuff that you fail to grasp, probably why you're a communist.

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>>717330183
That's just plain false, Turkey(NATO member) is targeting the kurds through airstrikes. And I'm not a stalinist, I'm an anarchist.
>out of arguments
>the long awaitwd final resort of the liberal:
>wuuhh communism wont woooooork you are a also a dumb child
lol

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>>717330268
>If anything they want to try and brain wash us into blindly supporting they State
As seen with loans by banks that charge students with higher interest rates than they charge corporations. My uni literally is literally having its strings pulled by Suntrust: the financial aid office has "Suntrust" in gold letters above the booths.

>>717330560
Except I'm not a Communist.

You said NATO isn't, but didn't differentiate between if it is NATO as an Alliance or NATO component states.

>>717330681

>>717330560

>>717330773

See >>717330722

>>717330560
Shut up anon, you where caught saying untrue shit. Youre making it worse

>>717330722
In order to say an alliance is doing something, more than one member of that alliance needs to be doing that thing. Turkey alone isn't NATO. This is so fucking simple.

>>717330839
NATO is a cohesive organization of multiple nations. Turkey doing something alone does not mean NATO is doing that thing. Stay in school.

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>>717330508
So, a nightmare every time, huh?
We could use an example maybe, tell us how the USSR was a nightmare yo everyone, or maybe we could use Cuba since its a living example of dotp, I'll ley you choose.
I know what you are going to say anyways, its always the same propaganda.

>>717330877
>NATO isn't striking the Kurds.

That can be interpreted as either a NATO state striking the Kurds or NATO as a whole.

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>>717330877
>>717330940

>>717330508
What is idealistic is simply dismissing the system without studying why the Communist movement failed and descended into authoritarianism. A materialist (Communists) would look at the material conditions such as was the working class at the time capable of administrating the means of production? What was the military status of Russia or China and how would this have affected internal policy? Was the west intervening in a way to try and break apart the USSR? A materialist would also work at other historical examples that did show great promise.

A petty idealist (liberals) will just mindlessly say "human nature!" and be done with it.

>>717331028
It obviously meant a NATO member striking the kurds, anon is just being a dumbass

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>>717330508
>it's been a fucking nightmare every time.
Even the Qin lasted longer than the Nazis.

>>717330957
>USSR was a nightmare yo everyone,

Millions of deaths of their countrymen, gulags. You know, nightmarish aspects of a society.

>>717331028
NATO is a cohesive organization with command and leadership and official actions. The actions of individual members nations without going through NATO are not actions of NATO. My fucking dog could understand this.

>>717326938
A well-thought post. Are you socialist¿

>>717331177
I'm not a Nazi you moron.

>>717331089
My ideas run the world and have brought the world unparalleled development and prosperity. Yours lead to failure and mass slaughter of one's one countrymen.

>>717331276
Yes I am.

>>717331276
Well he certainly knows his marxist crisis theory

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>>717331351
Didn't say you were, friendo.

>>717331178
>NATO is a cohesive organization with command and leadership and official actions. The actions of individual members nations without going through NATO are not actions of NATO. My fucking dog could understand this.

Well, NATO has supported Turkey against the Kurds

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/nato-isil-turkey-syria-150728085620044.html

>>717331351
>"My ideas run the world and have brought the world unparalleled development and prosperity. Yours lead to failure and mass slaughter of one's one countrymen."

The exact same shit has been said towards the French, English, and American revolutionaries. From the point of view of the people of 1789, Feudalism has brought about righteousness, technology, development, and great Empire while Liberal Capitalism has brought about destruction, wars, great killings, and the guillotine.

Do you think schools will kick you out for wearing a shirt with the communist symbols?

>>717331572
That isn't NATO bombing Turkey. Jesus christ dude you're going to have to let it go.

>>717331636
Once again, you guys had your chance and it turned out awful.

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>>717331730
>you guys had your chance and it turned out awful.
You did everything in your power to undermine it. see>>717329038

>>717331178
So you mean the fights between the kulaks for the expropiation of their territory. You see, the kulaks wanted to keep all their priviliges ober the territory after the Revolution, this causes a really long and painful War against them to expropiate their private proporties. It also led to famine since a lot of countrymen fighted against the kulaks and couldnt raise their crops.
About the gulags, be careful with propaganda against them, thet were the jail system of the USSR but yes, you could argue that they didnt have enough supplies to actually treat people nicely.
But look at the jail system of pretty much any country in those days. Look at Guantanamo today...

>>717331636
Imo a communist society would be great at inheriting capitalist developed technology and progress. Imagine a world where everybody can be a scientist

>>717331730
>That isn't NATO bombing Turkey.
Do you even read what you are saying anymore?

You need to let it go. You lost.

>>717331730
Pssh, you guys had your chance too with the French and English Revolutions. Both of them descended into oppression, war and death.

Obviously Feudalism > Capitalism.

Reactionaries: 1
Liberals: 0

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>>717331705
I wear a large (Male) red shirt with a golden Hammer and Sickle on campus. (I am 18 in
High School)

>pic related

>>717331875
Country?
Curious to know if u use that on USA

>>717331862
Everything was working PERFECTLY FINE when peasants where allowed to fuck around on their land. Then capitalist dictators forced them to slave in their factories. Feudalism=liberty

>>717331705
Can't officially do that, but maybe claim it's disruptive?

Or find a minor offence to use to get rid of you

>>717332024
I'm in the US, California to be more specific.

Democracy is a form of mob rule.
Collectivism is an ends justify the means form of "justice" when played out, excusing gross infringements on basic individual rights. Tyranny, be it from the state, a corporation, or your own neighbors, is reprehensible. The smallest minority is you, the individual. People are self interested, someone doesn't simply become a moral agent because they have a little fucking flag pinned to their lapel. Governments are nothing more than a monopoly of force, and bureaucrats are not going to live up to these pseudo altruistic ideals you parrot constantly. Wanna know something funny? Capitalism is literally the driving engine that had dragged millions of people out of poverty. The sweatshop nation's of the 1950's (think Asian tigers, South Korea, japan) are now first world nation's in a span of less than 50 years. If you actually understood technological innovation you'd also understand the vast majority comes from the private sector . I think it's funny how faux humanitarian lefties bash globalism, but globalism has literally provided a ladder for hundreds of millions of the world's poorest people to drag themselves out of poverty or subsistence agriculture. Authoritarian governments are now the predominant causes of famine in areas where food should actually be plentiful, given free markets weren't chilled by incompetent, arrogant, despotic regimes. I'm looking at you, Venezuela.

>>717331839
It's not NATO bombing the Kurds, it's just Turkey bombign them. The only country bombing the Kurds from the air is Turkey. No other NATO members are bombing the Kurds. You have literally nothing.

>>717331862
Everything's relative, communism has been the worst at oppression and death of its own people.

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I wish you spend a great year ahead that starts with happiness and ends with that too. Happy New year. Enjoy the leaks and leak one yourself - snap-leak-cf

>>717331705
Depends on what country you're in, and even then, where in that country you're living. For instance just from where I'm from (the US, Wisconsin) wearing a shirt with a hammer and sickle will probably get you some weird or slightly uncomfortable looks but nothing big is going to come of it.

But if you did that in say a conservative school in Louisiana, I wouldn't be surprised if they made you turn the shirt inside-out.

>>717332082
Tend to be safer with that stuff their. But in Alabama or something, then you would be fucked

>>717332147
>communism has been the worst at oppression and death of its own people.

Pretty sure Fascism would take that slot for being most oppressive

>>717332135
inceedible. the econ 101 class has really turned you into a good ideologue huh. youre like a liberal version of a party communist who speaks only in lenin quotes

>>717332147
Anon, please give up the NATO thing, go outside and have a breath of fresh air. Namaste

>>717332178
Holy shit, my thread is big enough to get a
spambot to post on it. I'm glad I am getting some
form of discussion on this by the way, whether or not you agree I thank you guys a lot.
Also, Happy New Year, Comrades!

>>717332279
If Fascism is what you point to to compare your system to make it look good, it's time to pick a different ideology.

>>717332403
Happy new year anon, here's to a year of communist opportunities

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>>717329165
Marxism IS democratic.

>>717332147
>It's not NATO bombing the Kurds, it's just Turkey bombign them. The only country bombing the Kurds from the air is Turkey. No other NATO members are bombing the Kurds. You have literally nothing.

But the PKK is considered a Terrorist Org by NATO, which is in turn NATO supporting the Turks against the Kurds in Turkey.

US, Germany and other NATO powers are providing equipment to Turkey, which is in NATO, and large amounts of that equipment is then used against the Kurds (Either in Turkey or in Syria)

>>717332371
Except I'm right. NATO isn't bombing the Kurds, Turkish planes are doing it alone. No other NATO member planes are bombing the Kurds.

>>717332448
Well, you claimed that Communism is most oppressive, while in reality, Fascism is.

Also, I am not even Communist...

>>717326561
Communism is a system of control invented by the Jews to enslave the common man. My father lived in both the Third Reich and communist East Germany for many years. He told me the years of the Third Reich were the best years he's ever had and the communist years were the worst. The Third Reich helped everyone, no matter if rich or poor while Communism created a fake stigma for the poor to serve your rich government officials.

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>>717326561
I cannot say when , comrade.

But Communism will prevail.
It will be a difficult and trying struggle.

But the Revolution never stops.

>>717332526
It's just Turkey Meanwhile, their opposition is being bombed by dozens of nations. Back to the point

>>717332582
Considering that Communists killed much larger portions of their population than fascists, it looks like Communists were worse. Either way, communism is awful and oppressive.

>>717332147
I feel like you're failing to grasp the point I'm trying to make.

Yeah, most attempts at it have failed horribly. But the same is true for Liberalism and our ideas of capitalism. In reality a radical and fundamental change is society is violent, bloody, and things can go wrong.

However, we have to look at precisely why the Russian and Chinese Revolutions failed like they did in order to learn from them.

For example, it's well known from a Marxist point of view that society goes through stages of development. In both the Russian and Chinese societies which were still effectively feudal, they did not have a proper phase of capitalist development. Their working class were still mostly illiterate, half-hungry, peasant folk that had little technical expertise outside of farming. Of course Socialism will not work under these conditions, the workers don't know how to operate the means of production! And as history shows us, a more literate and technically-advanced work force can more easily safe guard against tyranny, since they're often more educated and therefore intelligent.

And this is just scratching the surface of by the Russian Revolution fall apart like it did.

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Greekfag here...can confirm communism NOT working here...repeat NOT working,,
over and out

>>717332526
Back to the point, the Kurds are surviving as an entity because of outside support, without it they would fail.

>>717332652
>The Third Reich helped everyone, no matter if rich or poor

hmm yea this is correct. thread over guys nazism is the best system for the well being of its citizens

>>717332724
>It's just Turkey Meanwhile

Using NATO Provided Equipment. Against an Organization that NATO sees as a Terrorist Organization. Hence NATO is bombing the Kurds.

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>>717332743

>>717326561
Considering only the batshit crazy nations of the world still even try to seriously be "communist" probably not for a long time. Long enough for people to forget the lessons of the currently recent past at least.

Probably won't be actual communism though, just a bunch of faggoty greed filled power hungry tyrants claiming to be communist appropriating the farmer's beds for the "revolution" or some bullshit like that.

>>717332724
Either way, capitalism is awful and oppressive.
Either way, fascism is awful and oppressive
Either way, state socialism is awful and oppressive
What do these all have in common? The presence of a central state.

>>717332652
Congratulations your father was a fascist.
Fuck off, nazi scum

>>717332939
kill yourself

>>717332827
NATO is actually bombing ISIS, Turkey is bombing the Kurds with NATO support. The point is that the Kurds are being propped up and would collapse without it.

>>717332738
Tens of millions of domestic deaths is something you're really downplaying. There are multiple reasons for everything, but criticizing an ideology because it has led to millions upon millions of domestic deaths is perfectly reasonable.

>>717332738
>Of course Socialism will not work under these conditions, the workers don't know how to operate the means of production!

Except they did seize and self manage factories under control of workers councils, Lenin destroyed all of this because it didn't fit his ideological view of how the revolution would happen. If your attempts of understanding the failures of the russian revolution are viewed under the same ideological lense as the powers that crushed it, then you are doomed to repeat their failures

>>717332939
All the stateless areas of the planet are violent shitholes. A modern nation cannot exist without a state, something always fills the power vacuum.

>>717332743
Yeah you guys where doing fine under finance capitals rule until communist seized power of the economy. Where are EU technocrats when ya need them!

It's funny how in neoliberal societies you're a "slave", but if I spoke out against fidel castro or sucked cock within the boundaries of Cuba I'd be put into prison or shot.

>>717332800
>Back to the point, the Kurds are surviving as an entity because of outside support, without it they would fail.

Well, the PKK in Turkey has received minimal external support, and have been surviving in Turkey against the NATO Aligned Turkish Gov't


>NATO is actually bombing ISIS
NATO States are bombing Daesh. NATO it self isn't. It hasn't since 2011 in Libya.

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>>717332860
no...no bait.. we have a left wing goverment..look it up ...we even have this catchy phrase that says ''first time left''
im not really seeing it tho

>>717332800
No shit.

>>717333214
Well both of these statements are true. That's why anarcho-syndicalism is the way to go!

>>717333115
What was Revolutionary Catalonia?
What is the EZLN Controlled area of Mexico?
What was the Iroquois?

>>717333110
>"Except they did seize and self manage factories under control of workers councils,"

Barely, and even then it was horribly inefficient. Lenin's NEP in my opinion a much better policy that could've brought Russia some proper capital development before transitioning over to actual Socialism. Of course then you had Stalin step in to the commanding role and things kind of just went from there.

>>717333245
A left wing government does not mean Communism. I'm not sure I'd even consider Liberalism as properly left wing.

>>717333250
That was the whole reason for that argument. Rojava was given as an example of communist success, but it is not self sufficient by any means, it is being propped up. Read the comments fuckhole.

>>717333215
The YPG are getting a ton of support and airstrikes against their enemies.

The statement "NATO is bombing X" applies far more to ISIS than the Kurds.

>>717333375
Well, and Anarchist system except for "An"Cap.

Anarcho-Syndicalist, Anarcho Communist, Mutualist etc. all should be the way to go.

>>717327213
Nazi stands for national socialism, a form of comunism rooted in marx's ideals. Remember that nazis and ussr were together in the beggining of WW2.

>>717333387
Iroqois were indian forest farmers and hunters, not a modern society, the other two are poor and short lasted shitholes. It is not a valid system for a modern nation.

>>717333388
>it was horribly inefficient
>could've brought Russia some proper capital development

Are you sure you're a communist? You sound more like a capitalist economist to me

>>717333422
>NATO is bombing X
But NATO as an alliance isn't bombing ISIS.

Yes, The YPG is getting NATO State support, but the PKK in Turkey isn't and is still a Terror Org according to NATO

>>717333502
EZLN still exists

Rev Catalonia was stabbed in the Back by the USSR.

>>717333522
I support the workers owning and controlling the means of production (Socialism). I also advocate for a stateless and classless society (Communism).

However, I'm extremely anti-idealist. I recognize that Socialism in Russia by 1917 was unrealistic. Uneducated peasants can't control the economy themselves. Scientists, technicians, and literate industrial workers can though.

>>717333388
Tsipras started syriza with a big number of different extreme left parties that were not in parliment,,but i guess in theory its great but in practice its just not feasable

>>717333388
You do realise that Stalin's quinquenal plans made the Urss a fucking world power at the level of the USA?
Like others have said, are you sure you are a communist?

>>717333422
It's still an example of communist success, and they're not by any means simply being "propped up". They've been the most capable ground force to counter the military advancements of the Islamic State, and all sides they fight receive a tremendous amount of external support.

>>717333475
Yeah they all have their merits!

>>717333562
I agree anon, but the other guy was saying that NATO is bombing the Kurds because Turkish jets are bombing them with some logistical support. The truth is that NATO isn't bombing either.

>>717333627
EZLN exists within a capitalist nation and is only a few thousand people. You have no examples that are standalone nations that last for a long time, prosper and are good places to live.

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>>717332465
Silence Communist.

>>717333744
>However, I'm extremely anti-idealist. I recognize that Socialism in Russia by 1917 was unrealistic. Uneducated peasants can't control the economy themselves. Scientists, technicians, and literate industrial workers can though.

That's liberal idealism if anything.

>>717333778
They have been the most capable ground froce because they're getting a ton of support, have US troops and SF fighting for them and dozens of nations bombing their enemies, the US bombing their enemies actively in their battles.

>>717333478
Just because is claims to be Socialist doesn't make it so.

It's like saying the DPRK is Democratic because it is the Democratic Peoples Republic.

Also, in Nazi Germany, where was the worker control of the means of production? Where was the classless society?

>>717333950
Partly yes

>>717334037
Air support changes the entire ballgame, it's not something to be downplayed. When Kurds fight ISIS, ISIS gets bombed by us while no one bombs the Kurds on behalf of ISIS.

that guarantees their victory in battle.

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>>717334151
>while no one bombs the Kurds on behalf of ISIS.

Well NATO does

Petty commies
Funny to see such small fags thinking they will make a utopia by revolution.
Hahaha, you're all neckbearded fags that got an unfair life and cry on the interwebs about it.
And even if you try to make a communist uprise, you'll be shut down 1 whoop.
Fucking pathetic waste of human thought.

>>717334286
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations

>>717334362
Wow that was ruthless anon

>>717334411
Remember. NATO isn't bombing ISIS.

By your logic, if NATO is hitting ISIS, they are also hitting the Kurds.

But also with your logic, NATO is not hitting the Kurds, so they also are not hitting ISIS.

>>717334752
The labeling of it is irrelevant to the reality in this context. The reality being that Kurds are receiving immense support against their enemies and their enemies are being subject to far more bombing than they are.

>believes in a world free of money
>free of social heirarchy
>free of any government
>only the workers own the production means
>everyone lives according to his needs and abilities
>no private property
>be me
>be part of the human species
>we naturally form heirarchies
>we like excess
>communiggers think we can defy that programming
>we ask for proof
>all they have to show for it is Cold War, North Korea, gulags, and other historical travesties that didn't even live up to true Marxist communism
>only remotely communist nation was the free territory of Ukraine
>didn't even last five years
>i swear guiz, commnism worx!1!1! Also vaccines give autism, chemtrails poison us, the earth is flat, and we must wear tinfoil to protect against aliens and mass surveilance
>puts on aluminum foil instead
>everyone laughs
>"hey! Communism will work! We are enlightened and you're all sheeple and I'm trying to help you"
>people laugh even harder
>communigger wonders why and walks away in rancorous shame
Only the most idiotic of idealists believe in communism, you practically have to be psychotic to accept it.

>>717335181
B T F O

T

F

O

>>717335181
Peep this: Structures can exist that prevent the development of hierarchy. Non hierarchal "primitive" societies and anarchist groups are experts at this. That is if your theory of human nature is correct in the first place

>>717335514
That falls apart when you have millions of people to account for. Some people are highly competent, so many are lazy, stupid, not loyal, selfish, and generally incompetent.

>>717326561
Sometime in the 38th century, just after homosexuality becomes compulsory...

Second tuesday of next week

>>717335719
According to your stupid ideology, yeah thats whats gonna happen. Unless you can foresee the future

>>717335514
If by "primitive," you mean primitive communist factions then of course everyone in the echo chamber will follow the doctrine, same for anarchists. What I stated however is not a theory, but a fact in that humans are naturally greedy, irrational, and socially structured people. Communism therefore cannot work, because these tendencies in human nature will corrupt and destroy it before it could even come to fruition.

>>717336256
Sorry, your neoclassical view on human nature is not a fact, no matter how deep rooted it is in society

>>717326561
αι γαμηθειτε και εσεις

>>717336480
It speaks for itself anon, even kids at young ages form heirarchies. Keep in mind, you're the flat earther, the one who has little credibility while making erroneous claims, so you're gonna need some serious magic of some kind if you expect anyone reasonably logical and intelligent to actually believe communism is remotely feasible.

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>>717326561

I'm seeing it happening in Sweden atm, every PC person is fearmongering the ones that don't agree with them into becoming PC.

Our only hope is this guy, he is the only one challenging the political views of the other parties who are pretty much all on the left, even the ones that claim to be right wing.

>>717336480
It's certainly more plausible/proven than whatever scheme of human nature you align with. Fun fact, can you tell me who the richest person in Venezuela is?

>>717336761
Well ok then. Congrats on winning the nobel prize anon, I can't believe you figured out human nature!

>>717337025
Juan Carlos Escotet?

>>717336808
that's not communism you retard

that's people exercising their free speech rights. you should too. who cares what they think.

this is the problem with westerners, they're SUCH PUSSIES that they think their social positions anno 2017 are ANYTHING close to being in an actual authoritarian regime.

fuck you, PUSSY

>>717337330
You have a hard time understanding because you're an outlier, with a human nature inclined towards sucking fat black cock

>>717327592
>Russia
>communist state

nice

>>717337547

LUL, and you think communism just pops up one day and then just is? It starts somewhere and when the regressive left are fearmongering people into one way of thinking I'd say that's the way to communism

>>717337656
You seem upset

Factual communism leads to oppression to uphold equality in unequal people. Enters corruption.
>failure

Ideal communism needs ALL people to agree being equals. Enters corruption, fails.
>failure

>>717337524
In hindsight I should have said richest woman* the joke was that it's Chavez's daughter.

Anarcho communism ftw

>>717327593
>implying Venezuela is about communism and not theyr corrupt president selling all the shit to America
Please :^(

>>717337736
I'm upset-by-the-proletariat

>>717337840
this

It never went away. It flourishes on American college campuses.

>>717337715

Yeah fearmongering with russian bombs and foreign proxy terrorists, not being disagreed with by someone you don't like.

Communism isnt about being forced to think one way, just pretending is fine. big difference.

wouldn't expect a western puss to understand any of this though

>>717337908
because people i don't agree with are the same as international communist terror

can you honestly not put things into perspective?

>>717337840
That free territory man, can't believe it's still sustained after these ye-oh wait, 1921 nevar firgit!

>>717326561
Human nature is incompatible with Communism.

>>717338226
MAKHNO FTW

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>>717338235

Fuck you commies!

>>717337330
Looks like somebody became that buttmad communist I described in that greentext example I wrote. Once again, communism has failed.

>>717338412
Lol
>just believe the picture ok?
Get out of here with your psychotic ramblings.

>>717338530
Fuck you, pigs.

>>717338235
What do you mean by this?

>>717338724
>>just believe the picture ok?
you came up with this on your own
I just agree with the guy: human nature is not something fixed for eternity. Our behavior and personnality is shaped by our social and economical environnement this is basic sociology

>>717326561
>Mistakes communism for socialism

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After trump trump destroyed the USA and europe has been overun by fascist and refugees.

>>717338859
Communism is equivalent to:
>no really, I swear the earth is flat. Gravity? That's what you were brainwashed to believe. Here, look at this not at all undoctored photo of earth from space from a shady source conveniently proving me right.
Please don't reproduce, there's enough wackos out there.

>>717339120
Capitalism is equivalent to :
>no really, I swear the earth is flat. Gravity? That's what you were brainwashed to believe. Here, look at this not at all undoctored photo of earth from space from a shady source conveniently proving me right

>>717339286
>trying to prove a successful political system is wrong by copying someone's argument about their failed and unfeasible one
Ok, kid.

>>717338603
What?

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>>717339449
>trying to prove a successful political system
>successful

>>717339120
So... Communism, a political and economic theory,
is equivalent to denying a scientific fact? What
the fuck are you even talking about? How did you
think this would be a good argument?

Instead of attacking us personally and then
saying we're equivalent to flat earthers isn't an
argument. Actually address us for our beliefs,
arguments and concerns. Otherwise we won't
take you seriously.

>>717339286
>>717339449

They're not trying to prove Capitalism is wrong,
they are stating that your argument is flawed.

>>717339449
>>717339548
It is succesful, its doing exactlywhat it was intended for, enriching the few at the cost of everything else.

>>717339699
instead of attacking us personally, address our
beliefs, you aren't presenting a coherent argument.

English isn't my first language so I apologize for
bad grammar

>>717338928
Yet there are still primal aspects of humanity that are ingrained. We are ingrained with the desire to fuck, we are ingrained with the fear of being alone, and we are ingrained to look out for ourselves. Not everyone wants to live in a land without a state, or money, or social class. When that somebody finds other somebodys who feel the same, they take over. It's more natural to humans to live unrestricted by an ideology like communism and doing what they please in spite of the law while others prefer a state to protect them from these people. Even animals can't help but form structures that contradrict communism, and no amount of communist nurture will cure that nature.

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>>717326561

>Communism is inevitable, and it will prevail.
>When do you guys think it will rise again?

>>717340178
How are these conflicting statements?
It's like saying
"Sunrise is inevitable, so when is it going to happen?"

>>717339699
We attack you personally because you refuse to listen to reason and logic that refutes your daintily constructed socio-economic theory, much like a flat earther who denies a round earth, likening you to lunatics who know fuck all about anything but communism. Communism has never succeeded since inception, so you can't expect people to believe in something that has, and will never work.

>>717339729
>people actually believe this

>>717339912
>Even animals can't help but form structures that contradrict communism
yes but they are animals that the point of humanism to aknowledge that we human can form other social structure and we are not bound by genetic to act like anst or by material conditions to act like wolves
>We are ingrained with the desire to fuck, we are ingrained with the fear of being alone, and we are ingrained to look out for ourselves.
exactly and the fact that a majority of people want to reproduce, meet and live with other people and be safe is the reason why in theory communism will prevail because the proletarian masses are denied this right of well being by exploiting classes.
>It's more natural to humans to live unrestricted by an ideology
And the restriction of the peoples set by the ideology of capitalism will cause it's collapsing in marxist theory

>>717340369
>We attack you personally because you refuse to listen to reason and logic
what reason and what logic all I've seenin this thread is ab nominem attack,
>dude it never workeb but you'll say that it wasn't real socilism amiright
and rant about flat earth

http://www.strawpoll.me/12006772/

>>717340369
I haven't refused to listen, infact I am open to
change, but I haven't been brought up with an
argument that convinces me, hence the entire
fucking point of the thread.You're the only one
that has refused to address the other side's
arguments. We will treat you how you treat us.
If you want to play the "Fuck you" game and the
"You're like a flat earther" then we will point you
out on your ignorance and your apparent lack
of understanding and maturity.

>>717340863
wut

>>717340840
>>717340898
It's been tried and it either doesn't work for long or it becomes violently oppressive to its own people.

What more fucking evidence to do need?

>>717340646
>cherrpicking what I said to form more convenient replies of communist rhetoric
It's like you're a cult or something.

>>717341076
That's not evidence, it's the same argument
we have heard over and over again and we
already have addressed it. It has been successful for periods of time yes, it doesn't fail
in it of itself however. It's because of the U.S
that most of these countries have failed, with
their economic wars they wage when they
find a country that isn't profitable.

That and Stalin let his heart grow dark, ruined
the revolution Lenin had set up. There are
versions of communism that isn't authoritarian,
however. For example, Libertarian Socialism or
Anarcho-Communism. You should look into
this stuff and learn about where we are coming
from.

>>717340898
Mature people don't believe in communism anon, they accept all political theories are flawed and choose one that doesn't have the most deficits, and communism is loaded with the most deficits.

>>717341335
>cherrpicking
>I can't admit that I'm possibly wrong quick better namecall

>>717341398
>blaming something else for your own shortcomings
Communists, folks.

>>717341398
every nation is subject to external pressures, if yours always fail then that's on you.

>>717341574
You actually cut off a quote of mine and addressed that part, not the whole of it and it's entire meaning. If that isn't cherrypicking, then this isn't 4chan.

>>717341752
*its

>>717341752
I'm looking at my post and yours and maybe I'm dishonest but I dont find it to be cherrypicked at all

>When do you guys think it will rise again?
I dunno, ask the millions that died in the gulags

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89KB, 1920x1080px

>>717342043
>*I* don't see things that way so it isn't
I got no more use for this guy.

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63KB, 610x417px

>>717342544
>you have no proof that I did something
>you accuse me of something
>I claim that I'm innocent
>you post this

>>717326714
FPBP MAGA
LOL XD

>>717327884
how big was his dick?

because it's obvious you've taken it up the ass a few times