>>typical liberal deflection. Libs cant use logic and facts. They do their best to rationalize their strong feelings about feelings so they can feel better about the feelings of others, making themselves feel self important enough to feel confident to argue conservatives... with feelings.
because i believe in freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of association, freedom to assemble and the right to self determination. basic liberal values, i believe my life is mine to live as i feel free so long as i don't impede others rights to do the same. i believe the government exists to settle disputes at the intersections of individual rights and to provide for the health and well being of it's subjects.
>>685451687 Hey trump people, You like trump because he's self funded(for now) and you think he's not bought or corrupt. But he hasn't made any promises to get money out of politics forever. I could care less about socialism and gay rights but Bernie sanders is the only presidential candidate that has promised to get money out of politics and have free and fare public funding of elections. Thats why I a former libertarian is voting for Bernie.
>>685452657 >because i believe in freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of association, freedom to assemble and the right to self determination. basic liberal values, i believe my life is mine to live as i feel free so long as i don't impede others rights to do the same.
this contradicts literally every single one of their policies and their "protests"
progressives do not adhere to most liberal values, they prefer more of a nanny state, they take the idea of the government providing for the health and wellbeing of the people to mean the government should provide EVERYTHING, they don't value individual rights but instead focus on collectives.
>>685452657 Not him but it's funny you mention all those things when the "left" is currently seeking to weaken all of those things and strengthen the power of the federal govt. as soon as I realized that that's when I stopped being a democrat as true democrats that love America and freedom do not exist anymore and after Clinton 1.0 most of the real dems switched to the Republican Party.
progressive = far left with fascist ideology, and collectivism.
liberal = central right with individual liberties, and individualism.
Progressives hijacked the world liberal in hopes that real liberals would not notice. If you are a progressive, you are a fascist. You want to limit peoples individual rights to make their own choices by over-regulation, and the use of political correctness to squelch and limit free speech to only those ideas that are in agreement with your progressive views. How does it feel to be an oppressive fascist piece of shit?
>>685452992 main thing is that most of those people are authoritarian left rather than libertarian left. there are authoritarians on the right who wish for the same thing (whether it's christian conservatives looking to censor violence in video games or progressives looking to censor violence in video games...it's the authoritarian angle that really makes it)
>>685452657 Sounds more conservative/slight libertarian than liberal to me.
Liberals might claim to support rights, but only the ones they like. If you support conservative ideals, they attempt to silence you. They quash speech they don't like, many have spoken out saying freedom to assemble should be limited if you're part of a group they feel is "hateful" or offends people.
They believe in expansion of governments power and reach over peoples lives, which I believe directly conflicts with the idea of "freedom" and peoples rights.
Liberals only support freedoms as long as they are the freedoms they support. If they could, they would outlaw anything they deem "hate speech", many have already advocated restricting conservative talk show hosts like limbaugh or hannity.
>>685452975 Like Bernie. Anon, you are right. Liberals, like JFK, would be the outcasts of the current Left. They are a dying breed, sadly. True Liberalism has become more Libertarian, and even a little constitutional leaning... Sadly, most Democrats keep voting for the most left leaning Democrats, thus leaning further and further away from what "Liberal" should mean.
>>685451687 Because conservatives are the party of people cucked by rich people hoping one day they'll become rich themselves. Thats why conservacucks continuously vote for things that go against there self interest. >huh duh lets give tax cuts to rich people cuz ima be rich one day and I don't wanna pay no taxes.
>>685453241 in the political compass liberatarian sits opposite authoritarian and liberal sits opposite conservative. they form a grid, so you can be libertarian conservative or libertarian liberal or authoritarian liberal (which still strikes me as odd) or authoritarian conservative
>>685453241 >Liberals only support freedoms as long as they are the freedoms they support. If they could, they would outlaw anything they deem "hate speech", many have already advocated restricting conservative talk show hosts like limbaugh or hannity. Just not true. Speak for your fucking self faggot.
>>685451948 I never get how people think that because the steel doesn't turn FULLY INTO A LIQUID that that is somehow equal to "steel beams do not soften or weaken or change at all under extreme heat."
>>685452935 Liberal college professors actively squash any discussion that contradicts their social teachings because they think it might offend someone or they think it's hateful.
Conservative professors have been fired for simply offering an opposing view, students have been kicked out of class for simply voicing an opinion against gay marriage or transgendered issues.
The IRS actively targeted conservative 501c3 corporations SOLELY based on their political affiliations. In Wisconsin, the conservative governor was targeted by multiple bogus John Doe investigations just because he enacted policies liberals disagree with.
Liberals are fucking ruthless and attack anyone they disagree with, but it's ok in their minds because conservatives are the axis of evil in their minds and any tactic used against them is justified because they are so dangerous.
>>685453566 i would point out authoritarian conservatives do the same, the issue isn't left or right, it's authoritarian or libertarian.
progressives and christian conservatives support banning violent video games for instance, christian conservatives support blasphemy laws while progressives support hate speech laws, extreme christian conservatives support segregation, and extreme progressives ALSO support segregation.
all of those things come with the territory of a conservative. Of the two groups, ask yourself who finds the language of the law to be sacred and not misconstrued? conservatives. If it's the first amendment youre worried about, conservatives do anything in their power to uphold them. If anything, liberals are the ones trying to cut down on what free speech is actually classified as.
>i believe the government exists to settle disputes at the intersections of individual rights
that is the textbook definition of a conservative. I think you're in for a rude awakening.
>>685451687 >because i have a false sense of civility and i feel you can force people to be altruistic through a series of high taxes. Even though i have an average iq, i will berate you because i have been taught my way of thinking is superior even though it isnt. I think the complex government budget is just like my simple house budget.
>>685453965 tht would be the textbook definition of libertarianism, the definition of conservativism is a resistance to change, preferring tradition even if that tradition is terrible. sometimes that means upholding liberal values but it's incidental rather than purposeful.
>>685453744 >The IRS actively targeted conservative 501c3 corporations This was completely debunked In January 2014, the FBI told Fox News that its investigation had found no evidence so far warranting the filing of federal criminal charges in connection with the scandal, as it had not found any evidence of "enemy hunting"
>>685453171 >If you are progressive, you are a fascist Not a fascist, just authoritarian and totalitarian. Do they see the state as the absolute? Do they agree with the racial teachings of fascism? Are they nationalistic?
They aren't fascist, they are authoritarian faggots.
>>685454391 well i'm not him but if you want something more substantial look up "no platforming" which college universities use to keep anyone they don't like from giving a speech, people like milio icantspellhislastname, richard dawkins, christina hoff summers, and a large number of others, basically anyone who isn't SJW enough (even a prominent feminist who caught flack because she doesn't consider trans women as being women)
ITT liberals who just assume they're intellectually superior and scoff at the idea that anyone might disagree so just resort to derisive name calling because they can't form a real argument because they have no logic or reasoning to support what they believe
>>685454489 I fucking love when this happens. Two retards debate about how libtards are fascist or socialist or marxist or commies. I think obama is a marxist fascist - well, I think he's a socialist jew totalitarian. It's an hilarious circlejerk.
>>685451687 I don't think trickle down economics works. Also >dude weed lmao I'm more fiscally libtard but socially conservashit. I really don't care who you want to marry or if you want to not have that child. But I really hate modern feminists.
Well that may be how people with lower IQs describe it, but this is because they are the ones being told what to do. They don't know better on their own, so we need laws passed to help protect them (and us) from themselves. Laws are a sign of a modern and civilized society. Conservatives would rather run amuck with absolutely no laws to get in their way and inconvenience them.
I am liberal but: I like dark humor and dislike sjw's. I believe in government healthcare that is extremely cheap. Not free but not debilitating. I understand social issues and apply logic and sympathy. Blacks are still being opressed subconsciously by a white America. White people don't like having to hear over and over again about them being racist. Income tax should be maximum of 30% and it shouldn't be flat tax.
>>685454461 thing is...jet fuel CAN melt steel, hell coal can melt steel...easily...i have to work not to accidentally melt my steel. you just need enough air flow. add to that other things burning and adding more fuel to fire.
then there is the question: was the metal STEEL? could it have been melting aluminium or melting tin or zinc, or any number of other metals in an office. certainly has fuck all to do with why the building went down which is just a WEAKENING of the steel.
>>685455025 well feel is kinda the core of any policy, we make laws to form a country that best aligns with how we feel a country should be, how we would like things to be. it's all very subjective. whether libertarian or authoritarian or liberal or conservative views are best has to do with the kind of world you want to live in. how you FEEL things should be. even when you build a complex system of rules around it the base is still feeling.
>>685455055 Police target blacks because they suspect them of breaking laws. This brought on by crime statistics which are caused by the poor economic situation of Black people which lead them to a life of crime. (These are generalisations) The economic detriment and marginalisation of Blacks comes right out of slavery where they were paid less and had access to less resources. Now is it bad that blacks haven't gotten out of this position themselves? Yes, although with a poor family structure where fathers are locked up, their children get taken down a bad road. It is a vicious cycle.
>>685454785 Not really, just using the knowledge I got on fascism, and the theory that is behind it. Mussolini is interesting to read about. >>685454798 >Laws are a sign of a modern and civilized society Laws show a problem with the population, that needs to be changed. If you need anti-racist zero-tolerance laws, you aren't doing shit about the actual problem, you are just punishing them. They reason they are that way isn't being dealt with.
So laws are part of the modern and civilized society, but needs to be handled with care. Laws can be abused, and will be abused.
When I say they are authoritarian and totalitarian, I am describing what they do. They tell people what to do, and they try and take control of different institutions to make this possible. Again, this has been seen with more people being fired for doing rational things. So I do not see how this got anything to do with low IQs, since it's descriptive.
You sound like someone for a fascist regime more than anything, or at least a totalitarian state, which is fine. We all got our own idealistic states. Sadly fascistic theory relies on utopian theory, which in practice can't work.
>>685455567 That is a 'perspective' argument. Dems say Reps feel their racists beliefs are correct, while they can logically deduce that all men are equal. So in this case Dems "think", while Reps "feel".
Again, an argument of perspective.
>one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter.
>>685453467 Its just an accurate definition of core liberal values. I dont know what else more you want. I guess you could say liberalism is open to rejecting traditional values in favor of making said progress. Liberalism also believes that government should be a force to protect civil/human/individual rights and promote equality. Of course the devil is in the details - there are a whole spectrum of opinions on how far the government should go in promoting equality etc.
Personally, i'm socially liberal and economically moderate.
>>685455852 those are the authoritarian left (opposed to the libertarian left) they have a lot of the right ideas but they have been in the echo chamber for too long and feel the only way to bring about these ideals is through force, they don't believe in individual rights but "group rights" so they aren't for the rights of a gay person for instance but a nebulous "gay people" group.
conservative ideals tend to be favouring tradition, hence why many conservatives are against gay marriage and in the past were against interracial marriage and against integration...because those were traditional.
some conservatives may well support traditional liberal values because our country has a long tradition of liberal values. but that is incidental.
>>685456028 well i say you have it backwards and since you are providing exactly the same amount of evidence as me i shall have to invoke the "that which can be stated without evidence can be refuted without evidence"
>>685455658 Not if it's bullshit, uninformed, unsupported, speech should be left at the curb. Students are free to seek out any information they want, bring it to a forum, and get roasted by their peers for it, or accepted as seen fit.
>>685456067 >government isn't fiscally responsible >let billionaires dictate if they want to donate any money to you >Lol stay poor faggots, we rich people gonna keep all our money while you eat rats. Ok then, literally these neo-neocon babbies are literally rich kids who have never worked a day in their life or never seen someone who works full-time and still can't out of poverty. I'm not saying taxing the rich is the only answer, but taxes aren't a bad thing and only retards think that rich people shouldn't pay more taxes to improve equality in the taxation system. One less private jet for trump in taxes would mean that thousands more get to eat a meal and children go to school. So fuck em, make em take jet blue.
>>685451687 there are no true liberals. im a liberal myself but i recognize real liberals dont exist in u.s. politics. liberals and conservatives both alike. they pass laws to get more money out of us like obama care. it went from a free healthcare idea to forcing everyone to pay. Yeah Bush passed the patriot act but Bill Clinton passed martial law act.
>>685454789 I agree with you, but have no opinion on economics because I have not studied it enough, yet.
>>685454436 Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white, and you people keep projecting opinions on me that I don't actually have. For example, I don't hate Mexicans, I just think they should immigrate through the legal process in place, instead of crossing it illegally, and that there is nothing wrong with kicking them out if they don't. That goes for every migrant.
And yet, I keep getting called racist for that, which actually makes me hate the other races for real because I'm not "allowed" to criticize them even if my complaints are legitimate. I guess lies really do become true if you say them enough.
Affermative Action is also bullshit. If you really want things to be equal, remove the ethnicity question entirely and read resumes for work and higher learning like a double blind study and admit people based solely on merit.
>>685455439 >he doesn't know about the conference about mens issues that feminist protested with a picket line and even ended by pulling the fire alarm This is one of many times the SJWs have actively suppressed speech.
I guess, rather than right or left, I just really fucking hate authoritarians, and the left hates me more than the right because I'm a cisgendered straight white man, so they draw more of my hate's attention.
If things go too far left I'll just wear a fucking dress, I guess. Maybe they won't bother me then.
>>685456487 let them say what they will, let them debate it, discuss it, refute it if they can, but they should be exposed to it and just shutting it down and attacking anyone who might want to view it is not how you build a more robust ideology.
college shouldn't be "well you can go learn about the world in you own time" it should be "this is what people think" it should be giving all sides of a debate, it should be showing liberal and conservative views together, it should be expanding people's minds not putting them in an echo chamber.
I love this meme how Republicans are racyss. I'm not even going to back to the guy who freed the slaves, just look at modern American history:
>In the 1950s, President Eisenhower, a Republican, integrated the US military and promoted civil rights for minorities. Eisenhower pushed through the Civil Rights Act of 1957. One of Eisenhower's primary political opponents on civil rights prior to 1957 was none other than Lyndon Johnson, then the Democratic Senate Majority Leader. LBJ had voted the straight segregationist line until he changed his position and supported the 1957 Act.
>The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress. In the House, 80 percent of the Republicans and 63 percent of the Democrats voted in favor. In the Senate, 82 percent of the Republicans and 69 percent of the Democrats voted for it.
>Contrary to popular misconception, the parties never "switched" on racism. The Democrats just switched from overt racism to a subversive strategy of getting blacks as dependent as possible on government to secure their votes. At the same time, they began a cynical smear campaign to label anyone who opposes their devious strategy as greedy racists.
>>685457086 Socialism never took root in because we're not retarded enough to have a revolution just because we believe in faulty economic theories. American economists were some of the first to point out the flaws of socialism btw
>>685457086 >Goddamn that Trump is so rich, If I'm retarded enough and keep believing the bullshit he keeps selling me, maybe my dad will suddenly give me millions of dollars to invest in real estate and exploit the gentrification of new york city to my advantage.
>>685453744 >6 The WI governor was investigated because the government workers in his office (Milwaukee county executive, at the time) were performing campaign activities on the taxpayers' dime. Furthermore, he was concealing this activity by using a private internet connection in his office.
>>685454467 Who the fuck are you to say what anyone should or shouldn't be able to do? Just because you don't make that you think you have some right to what someone else makes? This isn't a left/right argument. You're just a fucking jealous asshole who's probably too lazy to get a good job
>>685456225 No the whole point of an election, amd this thread is because people have differing views on what the role of government is. The role of the federal government is not supposed to be mommy. It isnt supposed to care for us. The role of the federal government is a very limited in. Yes the program was a bust but they were filling one of their roles, protection from other countries. That role also creates jobs and knowledge.
>>685457319 >taxation is theft No, taxation is not theft. Your roads, schools, hospitals, fire department, police, army and welfare of the poor and disenfrenchised have to be paid for for the good of the nation. If you don't like taxation, please stop using the nations facilities. The only people who believe taxation is theft is people who don't actually pay taxes or understand why the tax system works.
>Flat tax We don't have a flat tax system because you know, people have actually progressed from after the times of feudal lords and flat taxes don't work because you don't have flat incomes dumbshit.
>>685457798 please switch your brain to the ON position.
Flat income =/= flat tax.
One is fixed, while the other is a percentage.
A flat sales tax is the best way, and would give the government more money than they know what to do with. bu-bu-but this will effect the poor on welfare. Wrong, you give them extra to cover the tax, and in the end they will have more.
>>685457708 All I'm saying is that there would be nothing wrong with higher taxes if they were spent in the right places. Not spent on a 150 dollar hammer. To add taxes without cutting spending is fucktarded though
>>685458086 >Flat sales tax is the best way No it fucking isn't. Poor people pay a much larger proportion of their taxes on food and actual necessities. Having a flat sales tax is basically a tax on the poor.
>>685452835 "Liberal Freedom" >Making heterosexual intercourse illegal by giving women the right to revoke consent after consensual sex >Making it rape to have sex while drunk because women arent capable for being responsible for their own decisions >Making quotas favoring females and non-whites in employment, education, salary, politics and other areas where nothing is actually stopping these people from entering, other than lack of their own interest >Making criticism against their totalitarian nazi inspired ideologies "hate speech" Yeah, liberals are all about freedom
Because we've elected exclusively rich and connected people to high places in society for the better part of the existence of this country.
Being a politician pretty much requires that you're rich, or funded by the rich because campaigning is a full time job that doesn't come with a paycheck.
They rich hold a disproportionate amount of sway in government and it is silly to think they've been doing anything with that power but making themselves richer and slanting the rules in their favor. I have a ton of examples of this if y'all are interested, but the heart of my thesis is that even if I don't agree with every dumb thing Bernie proposes, ($15 an hour Federally, Free college), my vote goes to the guy who most represents a move in the other direction. Right now that is Bernie.
>>685458086 >wrong you give them extra to cover the tax But anon, that's literally making people dependent on welfare.
Rich people or poor people can only consume so much. Flat sales taxes are basically a tax on the middle class and poor because they make up the majority of consumers. Whether you're a billionaire or on welfare you're basically only going to be able to eat 1 burger and fries at any given time so basically you're taxing the poor disproprotionately. >Just give it back to them That sure is a whole load of wasted effort wasted to tax someone then give back the taxes you collected from them.
>>685451687 Rather than mimicking better countries than the States which use more Berniesque economic policies like Canada, Australia, Scandinavia, Austria, etc... retards with no economic understanding claim Trump is the better economic manager since he's isolationist which is bad for an economy.
Fyi economic growth is better under Democrats than Republicans & Liberals than Conservatives by about 2%. The far right is based on proven false dogma. The best economic approach is centre right which is far to the left of the Democrats.
Politics would probably be less fucking awful if we'd stop calling each other "libtard" and "conservicucks" and just actually converse and understand each other's differences instead of posting shitty poorly researched memes and ridiculing anything a different party proposes.
If a poor person receives $100 a day for welfare, and a 20% flat sales tax is introduced, give them $120 a day.
Also, having a flat sales tax would eliminate all other taxes. No income tax, not property tax, etc, since there would be more than enough revenue from the sales tax.
Also when a rich boy buys a new private jet for 10 million, he will pay 2 million in taxes on that purchase. Where as when a middle class person buys a car for 25,000 they will only pay 5,000 in taxes. So only 5,000 instead of 2,000,000. In the end the rich are still paying more taxes.
>>685458040 When I was in the gulf for 9 months bombing Syria and warding off Iranians, the Iranians only had 2 f4s patrolling for the entire 9 months. The 2 f4 phantoms we sold them in the 90s. We had an aircraft carrier filled with Hawkeyes , hornets, prowlers, and Seahawks. Our military is bigger than the next 25 nations combined. Spending a trillion on jets that don't work when we have socioeconomic and infrastructure issues is a disgusting waste of taxes
>>685458709 >Please explain how >Give them $120 a day You assume that collecting taxes and redistributing them doesn't have any overhead. Collecting consumption taxes are fuck expensive and literally all of the $20 are going to be consumed by the cost of collecting and redistributing it. Consider this instead, you collect income taxes from the rich people who don't even notice $20 a day and give it to the poor people instead of having an expensive as fuck consumption tax.
>>685456487 >Not if it's bullshit, uninformed, unsupported, speech should be left at the curb. Spoken like a good little Maoist. I guess you don't understand how your first statement contradicts your second: >Students are free to seek out any information they want, bring it to a forum, and get roasted by their peers for it, or accepted as seen fit.
>>685456974 Read the second to last paragraph again. "I guess, rather than right or left, I just really fucking hate authoritarians,".
>>685457060 To be fair, our school system as a whole needs a lot of work, and the nignogs have an anti-intellectual culture which doesn't help at all. I've met blacks smarter than I am, and Mexicans better at my job than I am. If they get a job before I do because they are better at it, I just need more practice and better luck.
If someone less qualified than me gets the job because the boss needs to fill his color quotas or face bad publicity from the Left that could hurt his business, thats fucked up, and it is reasonable to be upset, just as if I got hired over the smarter black guy because the boss hates niggers.
>>685457280 We are not more racist than the Asians for damn sure, and the blacks are equally racist as the rest of us, they just haven't been in a position to abuse huge populations of other races because they were one of the last races to get guns, and never sailed the ocean until we got there.
In Zimbabwe, white farmers had their lands confiscated and were often killed so that it's president could give the lands to his black friends, and other white populations in Africa have been purged in recent history.
>>685458345 It is my right to hate the people who hate me. Stop being an asshole to me because I look kinda like a guy you don't like, and I probably wouldn't give a shit.
>>685458958 Infrastructure is not "mothering" I'm more liberatarian, but if they're going to tax us anyway, at least help people. We're one of the only countries that is taught to hate ourselves for being poor.
>>685459062 >authoritarians Trump is the biggest authoritarian this side of Putin. He literally personally attacks anyone who doesn't agree with him or actively helps his cause.
Because of your awesome two party system you get to choose the lesser of two evils. Doesn't really matter really because you have a senate that's bought and paid for by corporations so basically you get to choose a figurehead that can veto shit.
>>685458995 Sales taxes are the easiest to collect fuck tard.
I own a business, and as the business owner, I am also the sales tax collector. Also the tax forms are a fuck ton simpler than other tax code, because it is a straight percentage. No loop holes, no "if this condition than add that, or that condition then deduct this' bullshit either, just straight percentages and math. A computer could do this, the entire IRS and other tax agencies would be eliminated, saving a shit ton of money.
>>685459249 Oh don't forget if someone wrongs him he can't take anyone to court either because the judges and juries of the court system are paid for by the taxpayer. So basically he can live in a hut where everyone can steal from him without remorse or fear from repercussions. That is true freedom amirite?
>>685459015 People on the lower end would make a ton more money. Why because employers won't have to hire accountants and pay payroll taxes, that money will end up going straight to the employee (most of it anyway).
>>685459094 What do Hillary and Trump want to do? The answer isn't "Decrease the size of the government".
The last conservative president we had created an unfunded expansion of medicare to the tune of billions of dollars a year, The Department of Homeland Security, and the TSA. $8 billion a year for a worse airport experience that does nothing to make us safer.
Oh, and there was that whole trillions of unfunded overseas adventures to kill 60,000 innocent brown people.
>>685459664 I dont care about that friend. America has and will be an experiment. We are the country others can look to to make informed decisions. That is our role, to test the waters and see what works while still affording our citizens the greatest amount of freedom.
>>685459366 >Sales tax is the easiest to collect It isn't, everything you buy has to be tagged and companies who sell you such things have to withhold the tax for the government and pay them.
Anything bought overseas is literally impossible to tax/or it's not worth the hassle trying to collect the tax.
You literally need to employ thousands of people to keep track of every purchase made and make sure that the correct amount of taxes have been paid on them. That and flat taxes don't work because they probably won't apply to everyone, (charities, tax exempt organizations, tax exempt supply,) So you have to collect the tax then refund it and keep track of all of it which is basically an accountants wet dream.
>>685459366 >no "if this condition than add that, or that condition then deduct this' bullshit either, I don't know what state you live in but that's not entirely true. There are deductions for the collector and different percentages depending on the county the entity is in.
>>685459798 Sounds like that isnt a problem. The voters need to get out and have their voices heard or be left behind, its shitty but the truth. How many people have died in our country and others to have this luxury and people shit all over it?
>>685453244 Everyone in the western world is liberal unless you're an authoritarian you idiot. Conservatives are all relatively liberal just in a less dramatic way then bernies get everything from nothing ideas.
>>685459848 Payroll taxes. Used to be 50/50 match on the employers part for FICA, Fed tax, Fed Unemployment. Now it has increased on the employers portion to 66/33. So when you see that $340 was your federal withholding tax, the employer also contributed $680 to this tax, which means the govt got $1140. Even if you get a 100% refund, the govt still got $680 because the employer doesn't get this back. That is $680 less that he has to work with that would help pay higher wages to his employees, or hire additional employees.
The govt does this to be sneaky, and the typical worker is unaware that any of these funds are matched or doubled by the employer. Guess what they all are. There is a ton of hidden shit, that costs companies lots of money, that could be better used to hire more employees, and pay better wages to those employees.
>>685460132 why should they? the government and the system are working fine right now. is it perfect? no of course but. but if your life is shit just remember that it probably would be under a perfect system too. take some personal responsibility, fix your own shit.
>>685460439 nope there are some very big loopholes that allow me to have to pay almost no taxes. but then i'd have to sit in a room and go over every one of these things in an audit.believe it or not i want to pay my fair share of taxes.
>>685459977 >American citizens the most free This meme again. Please tell me you don't actually believe that. http://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. >The United States is ranked in 20th place.
A country lacking social mobility is not free. The American dream is the Canadian/Australian/Scandanavian reality.
Being liberal (to a point) on social issues I have no problem with. However, this extreme shit we are going to now days is getting pretty terrible. I was with them for gay rights. But the fact its not socially acceptable for cops to protect themselves from criminals, being offended by everything that "might" offend someone, and the other general bullshit has gotten out of hand.
On the flipside, conservatives who start quoting scripture, you can go fuck yourself. We have had to amend a document written in 1776 to keep up with modern times and laws. Your 2000 year old book is out of date with modern times and you can go fuck yourself.
>>685460360 Payroll taxes are done to create a safety net for employees in case they get laid off. It's quite fair that everyone pays it and if you give it back to employers they'll just have to make it up by taxing companies/employees more on their personal taxes.
Remember children, the government will always get paid and lowering taxes basically means lowering services. There is no free lunch anywhere.
>>685459249 Not that guy, but I'd pay less taxes for not calling the cops, I have a gun, and I'll kill anyone I find trespassing, and I have signs that say "trespassers will be shot" at the boarders of my land.
I can't pay no taxes, though. I still use the roads, after all, and I'd like to have the option of using the fire department if needed.
>>685459357 I hate our two party system, and I never said who I support. Which is no one. There are no "good" candidates. I know what comes next contradicts what came before, but I have very little choice. I'll vote for whoever isn't Hillary in the general election.
>>685459543 >>685459863 He can't sue anyone, but if the cops can arrest him, others can bring him to court as well, and he can pay a private lawyer. And you can still be shot.
Never forget that the very VAST majority of people living outside of the cities own firearms, and use them.
>>685460360 >Payroll taxes. Used to be 50/50 match on the employers part for FICA, Fed tax, Fed Unemployment. Now it has increased on the employers portion to 66/33.
When did this happen? A quick googling says that FICA is still 50/50. And Medicare/SS are going to be underfunded in a few years, not overfunded. That means M/SS will soon be paying out more than they take in which is ostensibly a net + for the American citizen collecting on these programs.
I'm not making any political statement on this programs for or against, just saying.
>>685460632 the system works. it's all those useless socially un-mobile that fuels the amazing american dream. if you are driven and motivated and have some sort of skill you'l be able to rise right up on the backs of the useless.
the idea that hard work is the key is a joke. hard work is not the way to achieve the american dream. it doens't mean shit. and shouldn't.
my entire life i've worked much less than my "peers". i'm better at what i do. i don't need to work as hard or as long. that's the reality.
>>685460843 you wouldn't last a week with your guns. you have no idea when people are coiming and they'll be coming continuously once they know anything can be done to you without fearing repercussions. you'd be doomed.
the fact that you think otherwise is indicative of how out of touch with reality you are.
>>685460843 >Cops >Court These aren't options available to you, courts are paid for by the government through taxes. Other people can't sue on your behalf, also basically you're leeching off other taxpayers basically if you don't want to pay taxes but want to enjoy the police service.
you dont' get to say where your money goes line-item style faggot. it doesn't work that way. your should worry about the gross military spending going on before you worry about welfare recipients. at least welfare has a chance of keeping people off your property because they're hungry enough to steal.
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