mostly NO - they wasnt, because they were defeated and could only rush half-europe because their oppponents were just badly prepared for such a case. Also the nazi-machinery could stand the test of time only 6 years, thats far away from other empires. Romans and Ottomans lasted for hundreds of years til they fall The former British Empire also lasted a few decades. Even the US is an Empire since the first world war
But of course, it was definitly impressive how the nazis run over europe. It is clear they set the right goals and developed a few new techniques.
Soviets: Fought the Germans for 4 years. Highest motivation as they were fighting for their own homeland. Right next to their supply source. No other enemies to deal with at the time.
US : Fought Germany for less then one year Moderate motivation as they were fighting for someone elses homeland. 5000+ miles away from their supply source. Fought the Empire of Japan at the same time and even before fighting the Germans. Defeating Empire of Japan pretty much by itself.
Also don't forget the 10's of million of tons of supplies the US sent to Britain and the Soviets before it even entered the war.
As much as I love the NAZI war machine I would have to say that ultimately it would have been defeated. Even if it had won in Russia and even if it had turned back the Allies in Normandy on D-day or at the battle of the bulge, the US would have still developed the Atom bomb first. The initial plan was for it to be used on Berlin however the war finished sooner so the Japs ended up being the guinea pigs.
So due to this vast technological advancement the US even had it lost all battels up to that point would eventually develop the bomb and nuke NAZI Germany into submission. So even though they were advanced in more in many areas and had some of the best elite undeniably some of the best Divisions in the history of warfare, by declaring war on the US sealed their fate. Had the US not entered then they may have done it
>>685112759 You gotta realise how close the nazies were to the a-bomb. The norwegian rebellion luckily halted their development alot, yeah the americans might have been first yet but the germans were also very close
>>685107997 Germany's army was stronger, but the Russians used cold to kill a lot of them, along with Hitler going bat shit crazy thinking every one of his plans would succeed without a hitch so he would just send his men to march into Russia without enough food to make the journey.
>>685109037 >americans They didn't do anything significant they literately came when millions of men on both sides died, and when germany was fighting a war on 3 fronts. Also being across the Atlantic helps with the fact that you didn't feel any direct effect of the war.
There was this 4chan post about some key victories in world war 2 and none of them were american.
>>685116442 because a modern computer does it in a much more intelligent level, its like saying that if i manually try to unlock a 4 digit lock and go singularly 1111 -> 1112 -> 1113 etc that i am a computer.... some people are such retards on this board i swear to fucking god... you cunts trigger me so much sometimes
>>685111342 Ok they fought 2 wars, but what finally won the war, was the nuclear bomb. Which was made by. German scientists. And if it wasn't for the fact that they simply surrendered for america because. The living conditions were better than russia.
Also pic related you were lucky you weren't surrounded by 10 different countries which were culturally different from you and had their own ideals.
I'm not talking about a modern age computer, I'm merely pointing out the fact that you can discuss what you define as a computer. The first computers had almost zero calculating powers. Also getting triggered by a discussion on a internet board.
it wasn't a computer, it was specifically designed to break codes. there is no computing power behind it... all it did was systematically (via electrons) spit out numbers in an orderly fashion and they just happened to get lucky one day because the germans fucked up. it didnt even do shit until HUMANS intervened
They were and they weren't, they were the best army until around 1943, they had been prepared for war earlier than anybody, since 1933. Stalin believed that Hitler wouldn't risk a two front war in Europe and believed he was safe, obviously Hitler smashed France and there was no second front, by 1943 Russia 4/5 of output was dedicated to the war effort, and they began to outproduce Germany in both quantity and quality. I forget the quote exactly, but when Stalin told one of his advisors that he had learned of Germany's preparation for Operation Barbarossa, somebody replied by basically saying no matter what happens, who fights and where, germany will never conquer Russia. it's simply too big, Stalin, unlike Kutuzov in 1815 saved Moscow, but he could have retreated and retreated, Germany would never have had the power to beat it, yes their army was huge, but they were stretched 1000km from Berlin to Mozdok, and then 1000km from Finland to Turkey, if Stalin fought alone he would have had the option to retreat and retreat just as Kutuzov. He didn't because he had the power to defend Moscow
>>685109488 the oldest computer is actually an ancient Greek device used to predict astronomical events, it's called the antikythera machine/ mechanism
also Poland actually cracked the enigma code before the English, can't remember exactly how but basically German soldiers, in their day to day handling of the machine were lazy, they wouldn't scramble the machines prior to use like they were supposed to, they would sign off, and people would sign off with the same initials, etc etc, basically repetition is the key to cracking codes
>>685116109 >other countries These "other countries" were german regime- and later war-refugees. Not to mention the "voluntary" requisition of all remaining loyal german scientists during and after the war.
They defeated themselves. Hitler was no general, but was seems to have been acting as one. No one had the balls to stand up to him. They managed to snatches defeat from the jaws of victory, though they military minds like Rommel.
>>685120402 yeah I think they cracked it, but the Germans discovered that it was compromised and switched it all up, and then clamped down hard on how it was actually being used by people, ie: no more heil hitler on the end of every message, which makes it pretty difficult to crack
>>685120420 this guy is right, basically the Germans had the Blitzkrieg, which could only really last for a few days, if you know about the battle of Dunkirk, the German panzers rolled all the way to near the coast, but Hitler stopped them from going in to basically take Dunkirk itself, because Blitzkrieg was only really meant for short bursts of extreme military might, ie: fucking up the Benelux countries and Czechoslovakia, not Russia. Russia had the Deep Battle tactics which were invented by Tukhachevsky I think, basically you go well behind the enemy, cut off their supplies and then surrounded, which is what happened in Stalingrad, the Caucasus, etc etc, the Germans lost a HUGE amount of men which were simply captured, I think 600,000 in the Caucasus alone.
>>685120724 They definitely cracked it, not like they could really do anything with the information they had though, they had no army, and were beaten quickly.
>>685120717 Rommel wasn't actually as successful a commander as history would have you believe, in Africa, the Germans relied almost entirely on information being passed by an American military attache, who was using out of date codes which were being decoded an hour after, Rommel referred to him as his 'good source'
>>685107773 That would be US Army. >>685116145 By that logic Russian army was the best, because they had the most people in it. Sure, half of them didn't have guns - but we're judging armies, not weapons, amirite?
Look, difference between having nukes and not having them is like difference between having guns and throwing stones at the enemy. Or having tanks and charging at tanks on horseback. Pretty motherfucking significant. If Germany didn't surrender, and US would drop the nuke on Berlin, that would be pretty bad.
Heisenberg when captured was still estimated to be a couple years away from a bomb, both in the engineering and the physics.
As far as funding goes, his political failing was partially that he was apolitical (and actually a bit sore on the expulsion of Jewish academics), partially that he was overoptimistic about everything he did.
>>685121398 I think he did more than write a book, he was Marshall of the army during the civil war, Russia would have beaten Poland in the civil war of the 20s had it not been for Stalin disobeying him and marching south. Zhukov was the most prominent Marshall during the 2nd world war, and he was a pupil of Tukhachevsky, an interesting fact about him is that he was one of the only men truly feared by Stalin, scary mother fucker
The Polish "cracked" a civilian version of the mission which lacked the plug board in the bottom.
It was only the English who cracked the naval Enigma machine as it had a 4th rotor.
Also I was never arguing what the "oldest" computer was. If we are talking about predicting solar events then I would argue that I could class the pyramid of Giza and Mayan stone wheels under that too, as they predicted astronomical events as well.
>>685121736 to add to my point, if Tukhachevsky beat Poland in the 20s, Russia would have marched all the way to Berlin and Hitler would have probably died in the 20s.
>>685121854 I know the English cracked the naval enigma at Bletchley, but the definition of computer, like the definition of engine, predates 20th and 21st century definitions of being electrical and running off petrol
>>685121458 >information decoded by the Polish was given to their petty civilian militias
Actually none of the information decoded by the Polish was given to either their military or civilian government -- even that regarding the imminent invasion -- because everyone knew that resistance was futile. Instead, information relevant outside of Poland was passed on to a British spy network, and arrangements were made to transport the bombes, codebreakers, and engineers to Britain before the invasion.
There was literally a desk drawer in the head of intelligence's office filled with the decoded German messages that were never passed on -- basically if any tactical information was responded to preemptively the Germans might suspect their code was broken.
The Germans only lost confidence in the original enigma iirc as late as 1941. That's when they started beefing up the complexity of the machine itself, but still the engineering and cipher concept were the same, so the British computers could still crack the code, albeit it took them a lot longer and they needed longer messages.
>>685122907 they had millions more men, also the aid given to Russia wasn't that great or important, and before you start trying to claim that aid saved Russia, the only reason that aid was given was because the West wouldn't open a second front until 1944, pretty much because the Allies were worried that Stalin would conquer Europe
>>685123143 Essentially. The US and Britain wanted to invade the USSR after the war was over but couldn't because Russia still outnumber them in terms of military. I think the planed invasion was called operation "Unexpected" or something.
>>685123444 Nice trips, I'm not too sure about that sounds kind of bizarre, I've never heard anything about that, the general consensus was for universal peace after the war, the UN, EU, NATO, etc etc these are all evidence of inter-governmental co operation through association, Britain certainly never would have had the ability to invade a country following the war, it had bankrupted the country, and decolonisation was inevitable
>>685123444 but you are right in that by the end of the war, Russia was a superpower, most of the satellite countries of the SU in Eastern Europe became so because the Russians had boots on the ground all over Europe
>>685123936 Yes well de colonisation happened for loads of reasons, for one India was promised independence in exchange for continued support during the war, also yes the Americans funded practically most of Europe by the end of the war, the Marshall Plan gave Britain 3.75 billion dollars, so the foreign policy for near every European country not behind the iron curtain was to appease America, which wanted closer political and economic ties in Europe
>>685124047 Oh wow this looks interesting, thanks I'll read this tonight
Of all time, no way. The US could declare war on the entire world tomorrow and win. Warfare today is more technology based than troop strength/training. The US Navy is the most dominating unit the world has ever seen.
Nukes would be suicide. The US has nuclear capabilities on nearly every part of the globe including all waterways. If one was shot at them, they'd retaliate and it would be game over
3 vs what, like 15 countries, 2 of them are superpowers.
NAZI Germany alone is a superpower compared to its retarded axis bros.
When Japan spits on US (Hawai bombing), Hitler shouldn't have declared war on the US to show sympathy and camaraderie. That was fucking stupid. Going to war against two superpowers, WELL OF COURSE YOU WOULD FUCKING LOSE. CHRIST.
>>685124269 untrue about the occult. Hitler relied on nobody but himself, Stalin understood that he wasn't a military commander, Hitler fervently believed he was a capable commander, would literally take absolutely no advice from anybody, he believed his ideas came to him from some kind of divine power, this was true in every aspect of Hitler's life, for example nobody wrote his speeches, he would lock himself in his room for hours, probably just sleeping, he was a very lazy man, but he would piss out a speech, for war, his generals for example Manstein didn't argue enough with Hitler over key decisions, ie Stalingrad. 90,000 soldiers trapped, and Hitler ordered them to stay within the city, rather than try and break out and reach the German relief forces. His generals understood the importance of the decisions at the time, but were too feeble to argue with hitler, leading to terrible decisions. Stalin was surrounded with yes men, but for Zhukov who would argue ferociously with Stalin, and Stalin was smart enough to know that he wasn't a military man, he was a politician.
>>685124625 Hitler wasn't aryan, he couldn't even prove he wasn't of Jewish heritage
>>685125482 historiography is the term for basically when historians near fabricate stories in a bid to sell. Wikipedia is largely made up of loose internet articles, quoting other internet articles, it isn't peer reviewed, and if you're quoting internet articles, you obviously don't know your shit, wikipedia is like spark notes, good to read for bitesize but doesn't really add up to anything.
>>685125482 maybe just to highlight what i mean more, the wikipedia article in question cites 4 books, all dated between 2006-2013, one with the title 'the third world war' - does that sound like a genuine history book or a book you buy at the airport??
>>685125770 >made up of loose internet articles Reliable sources are required. That means established publications for facts and experts or influential names for interpretations. >if you're quoting internet articles, you obviously don't know your shit Editors quote articles and books for interpretations and context -- you are not allowed to provide your own -- it's not a blog.
>>685125934 >4 books, all dated between 2006-2013, one with the title 'the third world war' The article subject was declassified in 1998, so of course the books are all recent. That book, if you bothered to look it up, is by an academic on the Cold War.
>>685127281 This is cute that you are defending Wikipedia, I would like to see you try and submit a real historical paper and defend Wikipedia there.
In the 90s loads of information was declassified regarding the Cold War, in particular about whether the Stalinist regime ruled with popular support or through fear. A whole batch of books was released, I have just finished reading number 16, claiming that actually people actively spoke out about Stalin and that resistance to Stalin in the Soviet Union was incredibly common, and in fact formed a key part of Soviet life. Of course this is not true, don't believe everything you read. Even historians get it wrong, I didn't bother to look it up because I know that there wasn't a third world war, you should be smart enough to know that too, but maybe seeing as you're here, start reading my other posts and learn something
>>685127855 >Of course this is not true Are you a historian with proper context of primary sources? If you're doubtful, check academic reviews online -- there will be plenty.
>Even historians get it wrong That's why it's good to have a site that presents multiple academic interpretations. When another interpretation comes up from an academic source, an editor can add it to an article. If another editor calls bullshit, they can only do so if they can find an academic criticism of that source (again, there are plenty for every book).
>I didn't bother to look it up because I know that there wasn't a third world war So you literally judged a book by its cover? More to the point, you didn't stop to think that maybe it was in reference to the hypothetical scenario contextualizing literally every Cold War strategy document?
>>685129486 i'm not arguing the uses of Wikipedia, i even gave you a use of it. I use it myself, I'm just trying to tell you, you've never read anything from a book, that has been written by an author who used Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an organisation, not an institution. It therefore can never be legitimately used academically because it is published by an Organisation, not an institution, like a University, this is the principle on which medicine, science, history has progressed in Early Modern Europe.
>>685130152 Doubt it, I don't know too much about the ins and outs, but for all of Hitler's role during the war, him taking drugs would not have made any impression, he was inherently lazy and was a corporal, not a general. Drugs wouldn't have changed that
>>685129486 Why do you suppose that more people know about the cuban missile crisis than the supposed invasion of russia by britain and america? Because one actually happened, was experienced by people, recorded at the time, was commented on at the time, was evaluated afterwards by historians from institutions funded to advance human understanding. Not a company on a website that relies on user donations, and user input, using 4 books (you don't understand how insignificant 4 books are when you are trying to tell me that there was nearly a third world war in 1945.
>>685130597 to put 4 books in context, in the past 2 weeks i have read 4 times that many on a different issue, which would make me the absolute supreme master of all knowledge in that field, but i'm not, am i?
also your naive wikipedia defense mechanism has forgotten the fact that being a historian is a job, you have to produce, you cannot write a book on something already written, you must find something new, something worth purchasing to feed your family. This is why I said that historians cannot always be trusted, but like always i have to spell it out for your retarded brain, how about you go read that article on wikipedia and see how much you learn
>>685131092 the whole big building thing is a result of the German belief in being supreme. They believed they could shock and awe the world into submission, the Bismarck wasn't a bad idea, it took an enormous effort to sink it, and the war in the Atlantic was very nearly won because of the Turpitz and Bismarck, which sunk the British flagship in a single shot. There's no connection to drug use, just their fanaticism that they could achieve more
>>685131521 also it's worth mentioning, a lot of these colossal projects were propaganda machines, they influenced the Germans to fight as fanatically as they did, which contributed a lot to their war effort, but yeah a lot of their war effort was wasted on things like attachments to allow you to shoot round corners, which are pretty useless, but under Albert Spier, armament production was actually increasing towards the end of the war
>>685129908 >Wikipedia ... can never be legitimately used academically
No shit. It's an encyclopedia. You use encyclopedias for quick reference and referrals to other sources.
>>685130597 >you don't understand how insignificant 4 books are Historians didn't know about the operation until 1998, dude. How can you compare the scholarly research on that, the source for which is a single set of papers and nobody alive to interview, to the Cuban Missile Crisis (the article for which has a shitload of sources)?
>>685131956 Germany was a continental power, not a sea power why would it have an aircraft carrier? where would it go with it? Why do you think they aligned with Japan?
It was sunk by a torpedo yes, but when? How many years did it take until that happened? Just because it was destroyed easily doesn't mean it didn't dominate, and wasn't a naval priority of the British. Ever heard of the achilles heel?
>>685132148 It was launched Feb 14, 1939 and was sunk May 27, 1941. Short lifespan for a weapon that dominated. My point was that it was made obsolete by air power. Aircraft carriers allow you to project that power.
>>685132603 you keep making points, you don't answer any of my questions though, that is how i know you don't know what you're talking about. Anybody can regurgitate information. copy and paste init. But you can't analyse or weigh up anything because you don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you answer some of my questions?
>>685132603 aircraft carriers are more of a modern thing. Only america and japan had one, Britain, the naval empire didn't have one. Why would Germany build one? The germans never had any air power, they lost the battle of britain, Goering was a fucking idiot
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