Hey /b/ whats the most usefull coding language to learn for my

Bootstrap is best

>>658460767
Depends on what you mean by useful.

>>658460906
The one i can learn most from and will help me with other languages

Stop being a faggot and go learn x86 assembly

>>658461191
C

High level language and you can take it's concepts into most other modern day langs

>>658461348
Hmmm, ok thanks! Going to look up some tutorials online, how do you feel about lua is it a good one to learn?

>>658461741
lua does some stuff different from most other langs (example being that lua arrays are indexed from 1) but it's not bad - just different.

Choice of lang doesn't really matter when learning. The concepts are what's really important.

C if you think you might want to write real code at some point / do it for a living. Python if not.

Learn straight pure C, not C++. C++ is terribly designed. Switch to java once it's time to learn oop. (Modern C++ is fine, but... You should not try to get your understanding of oop from it, I think). To be clear, C++ is the most important language in the world, and you will learn it if you're going to write code, but don't start there.

>>658461348
this

>>658462353
>>658461741
If arrays are indexed from 1 then avoid it. Your first language is your native language. You don't want to go through your whole life feeling uncomfortable with the arrays in every mainstream language.

>>658460767
learn c first its the best way to learn the concept of programmation since its a low-level programming language(to be clear low-level doesn't means it easy)

>>658463820
The word "low" refers to the small or nonexistent amount of abstraction between the language and machine language; because of this, low-level languages are sometimes described as being "close to the hardware."

>>658460767
Sounds weird... But knowing Ti-basic was really useful when i started coding in java... Its really easy but teaches you the basics of coding... Idk if i would recommend you learn it since its kind of useless to know...

ITT: the highest of virgin wizards.

>>658464007
>>658463820
it's not low level you retards

Depends on what you want to program OP

>>658464214
Go fuck a girl faggot

>>658464215
Not sure if troll or autist

>>658463799

THIS FUCKING THIS.

i was taught Pascal in high school. everything was indexed from 1. seemed easier. 4th value in the 4th rank. now i moved to C and JevaScript and it's kinda a mess.
also even the syntax is different ; "=" is now "==" , ":=" is "=", "repeat" is now "do..while"

>>658463423
What about C#?

fortran

>>658463820
>programmation
are you french/north african?

>>658460767
Why the fuck is turing even on this?

>>658460767
C++

it depends,

you should definitely learn C, and Basic at some point. (NOTE: Not visual basic, but something like on the Sharp 1500 pocket calculator). That way you get two very basic introductions to what your computer actually does.
The first few paragraphs might help: "http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills1".
Cheers

>>658463423
That is because C++ is not an OOP language, it is merely a language where you can use OOP if you want. Most of the standard library is based on generic and functional programming.

>>658463820
If you plan on working as a professional programmer, I'd go straight to Java or C#. Programming as a job is quite different than writing sparse matrix programs with pointers in C.

>>658465139
Turing is still kind of used, currently learning it in high school.

>>658465411
Followup:
Oh and don't learn OOP first.
It took me rather long (about 1 year).
It is an important and powerful concept, but in most implementations (read OOP programming languages, like: C++, Java) it keeps you from first learning to think in terms of a computer.

>>658465786
Bad languages to learn with.
They are "awesome" once you know your way around (and have not understook LISP yet - but that is a different story).
Most programmers are fluent in at least one of the two and you can read sourcecode from both once you know one.

>>658465541
As I always see in software companies, programming in a language that supports classes doesn't make you program OO. You can write Fortran in C#.

>>658465541
True, but it is not functional in a mathematical sense.
C++ is like a LISP with down-syndrome (meaning a shorter life expectancy and a little to much DNA).

>>658466311
understook = understood and grok
kek

>>658466615
Did you mean writing a Fortran parser first?

python if you just want to learn basic programming concepts, C/C++ if you want to actually do something useful and productive

>>658467209
Python is a little weak on arrays though, so you should be a little careful.

>>658466055
>ng
sounds smart anon

>>658466882
No, he means that some people will always write shitty code, no matter what fancy tools/styles they get presented

>>658467725
This is because the concept of an "array" is by itself very low-level.

>>658466615
can confirm. have worked with old school programmers who never learn anything new, and can manage to write very C-style procedural code using C++ with little to no OO

>>658468250
Exactly.
I train Java-Programmers. and those who fail at arrays, fail at almost everything else.

>>658468354
Be happy they did not use brainfuck (or any other turing-machine-like language)

>>658468617
Whitespace (^:

>>658468702
It printer friendly.

>>658460767
Scratch

>>658469324
kek

>>658460767
Dos its the only useful language today.

>>658460767
JavaScript

>>658460767
>knowlage
how about you learn some English first, you ruski fagzor

>>658469557
Dos?

>>658464797
C# is an awesome language. Visual Studio is top IDE

>>658469679
no, based on OOP.
Eventually you should learn it though (it is browser lisp, anyhow)

>>658469967
this

>>658460767

C is the one i went for first then i learned pearl and python together then C# but if you wanna make stuff quick id say C then java just because the transition into actually making things is pretty quick which keeps things interesting but dont rely too heavily on java its not perfect by any means

>>658469967
Indeed. As much as linux fanboys try to deny it, VisualStudio is by far the most advanced IDE.

>>658470156

sorry i fucked up basic was the first one i learned then C

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>>658469679

As you already know a little of python, I would say that's a really good start, the language is quite expressive making it easier for a new coder. It's easy to make simple things and you can also go deep in its mechanism.

>>658469967
>>658470156
>>658470173
no, spacemacs is better.
And has decades more experience behind it.
C# looses to LISP, sorry

>>658469967
>Visual Studio is top IDE
says someone who's never touched QtCreator. VS is dogshit by comparison, for C++ at least

>>658470173
What are some features that visual studio can do that bash + vim can't?

>>658470384
At least 3 years back, the documentation on metaclasses sucked.

>>658469982
What are you talking about? Do you even code bro? JavaScript is the most useful language ATM, for beginners at least. What is so special about pure OOP? All languages are adding functional syntax, Lamda expressions, async, etc.

>>658470423
I have used both to great extent, and I must say that QTCreator is barebones compared to VS.

>>658461348
C++ masterrace

>>658470462
A normal text editor can never replace an IDE.

>Lua
>Lua
>Lua
>Lua

Learn C, it's pretty similar

>>658470173
no one denies VS is spoiling coders and is awesome for .NET

less so for C++, which is still as intense as ever

point is the .NET & Java families have so much abstraction from the actual OS that modern programmers have no idea what's going.

They're good starting points to pick up coding in general, and you'll be spoiled to death with complete OM awareness etc, but it will take almost a decade for anyone to become proficient in real OO compiler languages like C++

>>658470284
that's more like it.
The programmers I know who startet with a (non visual-)basic and then learned C are the best I know.

>>658460767
HTML and CSS

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>>658469796
The dopest of the assembly languages.

>>658470669
Can you tell me why please? It's not really a "normal" text editor when vim has extensibility.

>>658470609
in what possible way? VS couldn't even highlight symbols or do any refactoring until recently. It couldn't even do simple symbol searches, it just did retarded string searches.

>>658470669
bash is not a text editor. Just saying...

>>658460767

I built this yesterday. Android Dev.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.terminaltwofourty.rmgsoftware

>>658470816
MOV AX,0013h
INT 10h

any oldfags here ?

>>658466615
Real programmers can write FORTRAN programs in any programming language.

>>658460767
If you're a beaner you should learn English

>>658470423
Remain ignorant, I don't care. Check out some videos on latest VS. I'm not going to waste my time listing the features out for you.

>>658469967
This. C# masterrace.
As said, to begin, do C then C++. It's better to understand how the system works before adding an abstraction layer with a high level language.

File: 4chan battlestation.jpg (86KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

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F# is best

trust me, i'm a licensed hacker

>>658470866
It is not directed to vim, I actually use a vim emulation plugin with VS. But people forget that a big IDE like VS is way more than just editing text; its the unmatched debugger and profiler integration that really makes the difference.

>>658471060
good old QVGA

320x240 indexed color mode

ah, such good times

>>658470594
>What is so special about pure OOP?
A: (1) The Metaobject Protocol (2) Let over Lambda (up to now I only got halfway into the second)
>All languages are adding functional syntax, Lamda expressions, async, etc.
A: Most of that is definitely no where near OOP

>>658470780

well i started coding when i was about 7 on a zx spectrum +2 reading from a book that was entirely basic cause it was the only option

>>658470462
with a decent IDE you will be many times more productive. Symbol highlighting, refactoring, navigation between files. There's no comparison. If you're just making small changes to existing sources, then yeah, vim is fine. But if you're actively developing, adding and changing source files, etc, you need a good IDE.

>>658470462
Try using Google to find out the answer. VS is top, I still use other IDEs but VS is the best.

>>658470774
"real"

>>658470669
IDEs are emacs rip offs.
And they only got 50% right...
So from an emacs point of view, IDEs are just text editors...

>>658471273
no it wasn't you dickwad

you always had the option to hammer the metal in assembler on all the oldschool 8 bitters, as many of us did

Phrogram is a good and easy language. We learnt that in our intro comp sci university corse.

>>658471257
Serious douche bag detected. Are you even professional or are you amateur basement coder?

>>658471120
Try Haskell :^)

>>658471335
real, as in compilers vs. interpreted languages or IL vm's

>>658471120
F# is good and paying top $. Jet.com built on F#

>>658471174
read: "Emacs rip off without a real REPL."

>>658461348
This

>>658471281
Yea, I imagine the "old-school I only use vim" portion of programmers never had to deal with big legacy code bases with near to no documentation like you find in most companies these days :\

>>658460767
learn web development, web app development.

HTML5, CSS, Javascript, SQL, Bootstrap, JQuery, AngularJS.

>>658471519

not a single clue what you're talking about as i said all i had was an old zx spectrum and a book on basic coding bear in mind i found the damn thing in an attic and was bored

>>658471328
Okay maybe I will.

>>658471174
>>658471281
>profiler integration
Like valgrind?
>unmatched debugger
Like gdb?
>Symbol highlighting
like syntax highlighting?

>>658471566
(1) How long have you been programming?
(2) Are you bothered by the books?

>>658472006
GDB and valgrind are a joke compared to Intel's tools.

>>658472006
Gdb is a horrible pain in the ass.

>>658471697
you mean compiled (*ed*) languages and probably not compilers (the piece of software that compiles)

notepad and/or vi is all I need to code anything. Anything more is for incompetent girly boys.

>>658470774
You are living in the 90s. It is a new world and never going back. OSs are now blackboxes. Have you heard of a little thing called Docker or the cloud? Oldfag about to be replaced by a 20yo Indian programmer detected.

I would advise python 2.7, its a really good language for doing a lot of things

>>658465541
c++ is an OO language. wtf are you talking about.

>>658472006
>like syntax highlighting?
no, asshat, symbol highlighting. as in I click on a local or member variable, and it highlights all uses of it, making it obvious everywhere it's used. It's actually very helpful.

Can vim do refactoring? As in renaming all uses of a symbol across my entire project without fucking it up? It's more complicated than just doing a regex replace

>>658472164
>>658472143
Well that's unlucky.

>>658472484
Then you obviously never did any real programming work.

>>658472269
compilers as in the actual meaning of the word.
creating native code for a platform
applications that can be statically linked and run completely standalone on bare metal

>>658471328
http://www.fefe.de/nowindows/

>>658472617
There's probably a plugin for it :^)

>>658472617
Be careful, he might answer by integrating clang-format or any of their useless tools directly into vim (^:

>>658461348
this

If you want a job, Java or C#

If you wanna hack, assembly and c++ for coding the homebrews

>>658472683
Come on, thats some idealistic bullshit right there.

>>658472819
Lisp is faster, after 2 years of getting into it.

>>658472586
because it's not enforced. C++ is a federation of technologies. there's C preprocessor with classes, template metaprogramming, etc. You can very easily write completely C-style procedural code with no OO whatsoever.

>>658472586
No, it is multi-paradigm. I can write perfectly fine programs by just using template programming, which is not OO.

>>658472668
Yes, up to now I was under the impression,
that the languages are called "compiled languages" (vs. "interpreted languages") and the AST translator was called a compiler.

>>658472651
I worked on programming your mother to clean up the overflow that occurs when she rides my stack, faggot.

start with python. it's the easiest language to learn logic.

>>658460767
Assembly or QBasic.

>>658473219
How creative. You should just let the big guys talk while you hide in your basement (^:

>>658472651
Then why are emacs and vim still around?

>>658473428
Because they are great tools!

>>658472582
and you're being as ignorant as a 12yo script kiddie wannabe

fyi i code firmware for satellite communications equipment. We implement the latest in DSP tech on bare metal.

get with the program faggit

>>658472582
Thats hipster shit. No one in the industry takes that shit seriously

>>658473396
I take it you use the term big guys in the sense that you are all morbidly obese? Rhetorical question, we all know the answer is yes.

>>658473944
Better off with being obese than being a cunt.

>>658473247
This, actually. You'll never be able to use it in the real world, but for the sole purpose of learning how to think logically, this is the ideal language to begin with.

>>658464639
this

I also started with Pascal, and am now learning Java. I think Pascal, while old, is a good simple language to start you off

>>658472582
you're thinking of modern IT education, where the only possible job opportunities are working on boring data entry and lookup apps. financial crap, stock & client management, etc ..

yes, YOUR job will be outsourced to india.
Also get over yourself you simpleton

>>658473247
/thread

>>658460767
Learn at least 1 language NOT tied to the JVM and at least 1 language NOT tied to .NET/CLR and at least 1 language tied to neither.

>>658474109
>implying you've ever seen a cunt and possess the experience to positively identify one.

>>658474209
i notice that a lot of mathematicians in our company stated out with Borland's Turbo Pascal, and later switched to delphi and then Kylix (or whatever it's called now)

They're good at maths, but they are all TERRIBLE programmers, and have no idea of the underlying workings of all the nicely wrapped API's.

>>658473655
Alright, if that is your job, respect. I did troll you good tho. Not a script kiddie, I write programs and algorithms for hedge funds for 20 years. However, it is a different world now. If you are writing for specific hardware (military, vehicles, machinery, planes), you are right. If you are writing anything to be consumed by PC or mobile OS is no longer relevant. Everything is abstracted by many layers at this point. That trend is accelerating, not reversing.

>>658473247
This.

Python is easy mode. Learn to crawl before you walk.

>>658474587
Mathematicians are usually bad programmers.

ONLY HASKELL HAS THE PURITY REQUIRED

YOU MUST LEARN CATEGORY THEORY AND SPEND OVER 9000 HOURS IN SCHOOL TRAINING TO BE A LOGICIAN IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT WORD COUNT ON A SIMPLE FILE

PEOPLE MIGHT TELL YOU, WHAT DO I DO WHEN I RUN OUT OF MEMORY?

GET A BIGGER COMPUTER

>>658474660
>>658473655
How well integrated are SBCL and CMUCL for embedded systems?
(Not necessarily open source adaptions.)

>>658474757
Dude what the fuck...
How are these jobs still out there

>>658472582
>OSs are now blackboxes
thanks for proving my point. to YOU an OS is a blackbox. Us real engineers that evolved with it from the start have a VERY good understanding of how everything works.

>>658474787
kek

I'd say JavaScript. It's really easy to write a JS program. Once you got it down learn C. Then you're pretty much set to learn anything. I'd probably do Java next.

>>658475036
???

Someone give me a quick summary on how I can get a job doing this shit?

I'm learning php as we speak.

Arnold C is good too

>IT'S SHOWTIME
>TALK TO THE HAND "hello world"
>YOU HAVE BEEN TERMINATED

>>658475086
Trust me, I remember when it was necessary to know OSs, DLL hell, etc. However, that is the past. Win 10, Android, etc. Different world.

>>658472582

>Oldfag about to be replaced by a 20yo Indian programmer detected.

i'm not afraid of people that still shit in the street

>>658475005
what part of bare metal did you not understand

>>658475194
knowing only php will get you nowhere.

Depends what you want to program. I'm a game programmer, and pretty much everyone uses C++.

>>658475371
DLL hell was always very easily mitigated and was only the result of uneducated coders like yourself.

>>658475394
Agree, me too. However, in this game you can never rest. Must constantly learn and improve. Never think the learning is complete. Otherwise it's outsource city. Companies have a boner for offshoring.

>>658475149
Seconded foo

JS was designed as a beginner's programming language

It's also the language most consistent with the song "no type" by Rae Sremmurd

>>658475589
Would you recommend C++ as a first language though? I don't think that just because a language is the end goal that it should be the first one you learn.

>>658475450
Exactly my point.
I got bored with repetitive programming the moment I wrote my second goto-statement in basic.
(Yes I learned programming with goto.
It was good (I was organized enough to NOT produce spaghetty code) and I appreciate every single abstraction that makes gotos unnecessary (except in assembly of course))

>>658475164
Turbo Pascal?? Delphi?? Kylix??

>>658475962
>does not like GOTO
>clearly a cut above the rest
>asked in an interview what his favorite design pattern is
>says its the while loop because it avoids GOTO

>>658475662
Not everyone can be as brilliant and highly paid as you. I bet you are one of those people that never makes mistakes. A real pleasure to work with.

>>658469967
this.

>>658473019
that's actually useful though. You're saying because C++ allows for functional C style programming doesn't qualify it as an OO language. really?

>>658475829
no definitely not, keep in mind you can spend over a decade on C++ and still not master it.
I have been coding C++ for 20 years and templates still give me headaches.

>>658475829
To be honest, it doesn't matter, it isn't that difficult to change once you've learned one language. It's mostly syntax.
My biased opinion would be C++, but I guess there's some merit to it since you get to learn pointers. Threading is also a breeze with C++11

>>658475450
In Common Lisp you build a sufficiently smart compiler for your specific domain. So my question is: What parts of compiling Common Lisp straight down to specific embedded systems has already been done? (Especially cutting out stuff you do not need, like a REPL?)
(Omitting Deep Space 1 - if I remember correctly - here.)

>>658476161
i still use boost

>>658476090
I consider a "while" statement (as it is called in C) a useful abstraction from goto, just as do...while and while's for (a while DSL).

>>658471060
me but i am not autistic

>>658475962
Dude this isn't a cringe thread, get the fuck out right now!!!!!! Go suck PG's cock some more!!! And maybe write an elevator in fucking Arc Lisp!!!

>>658476124
It's not that bad really.

>>658461741
C is hard to get right, Lua is OK. Try Python or Java.

>>658475513

I already know other languages, but it seems that its easier to get work if you dont have a degree with php.

>>658476116
it's not an OO language because it isn't. It allows for OO. There's a big difference there. And it doesn't do functional programming, not sure where you got that idea. About the closest it gets is lambdas added in C++11

>>658476487
I have only tried boost, but it's pretty cool. I think they've got smart pointers as well.

>>658476427
let me just explain what bare metal means.

all interfacing with hardware for a specific architecture is done directly through peripheral registers and interrupts. Mostly C, some assembler. These files are architecture dependent. EVERYTHING else is written in C/C++ for portability. Why write a new compiler when C/C++ is all we need. There is not a single advantage to do so.

>>658461348
C++ is literally C with extra shit. There's no point in solely learning C.

>>658477699
you have no clue

>>658461321
This /thread

>>658477189
They use an old compiler ("Python" unrelated to the Python programming language).
With LISP you programm the compiler. Therefore it is less of a black box than C-compilers.

>>658477189
What do you use more:
(1) ASICs
(2) FPGAs
?

>>658477823
I really don't know what to say more than, back at ya.

>>658477963
C/C++ is far more superior and modern than lisp

>>658460767
Swift

>>658460767
java ? learn java its cool

>>658461348
this

>>658478256
first 2 for development, then 1 in production, you clown

learn mircscript then sit on your dad's dick OP

>>658478440
but we mostly use mcu's with dsp cores
there is a lot of silicon dedicated to signal processing

learn MAX/MSP

>>658478314
then why is writing compilers in LISP faster
(both at write-time and at run-time)?
(TIP: if you can write a compiler for ANY domain specific language you already beat the (problem-)domain )

>>658478877
>and at run-time
if you believe that you're incompetent or a troll

anyway you fags got me to reply when i was only looking for a celeb thread. i'm out

>>658461348
better to c# then, modern language, better on a resume. visual studio ide, OO, friendlier on a beginner than C.