New thread

>>646598971
Why are your photos such shit?

AHHHHHHHHH

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>>646598971

LE PEPE THREAD

this better b good man

>>646599150
because the phone keeps sliding in his sweaty fat hand

Video this shit pussy

someone screencapt it?

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she doesn't seem to notice

>>646599349
nice photoshop faggot

>>646599349
gay shop check the pixels

>>646599349
Nice shoop, gtfo

>>646599349
GO FUCKING TALK TO HER YOU IDIOT

>>646599349

>> bad shop

go away fag

>>646599416
>>646599451
>>646599453
dat hivemind

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>>646599349
she's ignoring you faggot, just fucking talk to her you cringy fuck!

>>646599349
r u throwing paper balls at her? kek

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you already know her.

bait.

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OH SHIT

Try throwing them at someone else.

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i been lurking, shit was funny

SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

>>646599631 this

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GUYS SIT THE FUCK DOWN. Notice how all the balls in OP's picture are identical., same shadows and shape. OP's a big fat slimy phony.

>>646599631
Shit on her head. Maybe she will notice you.

Rules 1 and 2 anon, kill self

>>646599631
whats with the rings, r u a vampire?

>>646599838
LOOK AT THIS POSTER
HE'S FUCKING RIGHT.

>>646599838
yeah the first ball from left to right

>>646599349
Those balls are photoshopped you sad sad wlu faggot
Don't step on the hawk pussy

>>646599838
that pic is not op's it is an OBVIOUS photoshop, made as a joke

>>646599988
them dubs dont lie

>>646599631
She found us! Everybody! Run!

>>646599631
is that the girl holding the paper? please post proof that you are

>>646599801
Thumbnail saved

>>646599801
what faculty are you in?

>>646600221
No look at the bottom left of the paper, it's photoshop

>>646599349
this guy is so full of shit... okay look at that nigger bitch... okay... now.. the table is empty... clearly someones shit is across from her.. this is staged.. anon is a phoney.. get a life ya fat fuck

why is this staged jew shit even getting attention
sage

>>646599407
That's just about the worst thing I've ever seen, anon. You missed like half the fucking stall, faggot

>>646598971
>>646599349
>>646599631
Meet me outside by the wilf statue if 5 mins il fight u both

>>646598971
You know what? Fuck you, OP! Stop shitposting and talk to her.

>>646600496
be cause we real channers still believe in the power of love

yes
you heard me
real channers
are in for postiive things

you think hate is good?

all of my hahas to you inferiorite, we root for confidence and honesty and will forever support people who follow their dreams against inferiorites like you

I'm so confused. The fuck is happening here

go kill yourself sand nigger

>>646600640
here's your reply

>>646600449
this

i have been up to 3AM for this ... i have class in 4 hours. 4chan cunts

>>646600640
<3

>>646599450
Fuck old thread 404

you coulda had /b/ but you had to try and photoshop

>>646600449
well spotted, the seat is askew and everything

fake and gay

>>646600640
kill yourself

>>646600645
some guy is about to go on a shooting spree at his school, and hes messing with people to let them know its about to occur, once they start panicking he takes out the gun

>>646600645
OP trolled 300 newfags and now this is like the fifth thread because of it

>>646600791
same here, man

OP= Master troll

still lurking

Guys, I can't do it. She already saw it. Abort! Abort!

Well 0layed op

>>646600925
we wish...

>>646600928
Thanks for leading the way!

i want to believe

don't praise OP for his shitty troll

>>646600791
I feel like I saw you post earlier about being up since three am and that you'd shit in his locker if OP didn't deliver, same anon?

op and his faggot friend are thinking of what to do next

>>646600922
no u

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still lurking...

>>646601085
It's like the X-Files in here.

>>646601125
nobody even really believed it we're all just bored as fuck

>>646601148
>Same picture but zoomed in
how stupid do you think we are

>>646601148
Shut up.

>>646601174
agree

you mke bad troll. even chinks shame u. failure

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>>646598971
>>646599631
>>646599801

I took her out, it was a Friday night

>>646601148
Come lurk at my place. At least you'd get a real man and not a neckbeard.

>>646599631
I dont understand. It looks like OP's girl but the paper is shopped in. WTF

looking forward to the relation up date 1 month from now.

You're Not Yelping anyone OP!

>>646601148
Okay bro I'm coming from bricker get ready anons ima kick ops ass>>646601148

>>646599801
fag

>>646600856
Thanks. Anon is surely a faggot.

>>646601288
I wonder what happened to her!

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>>646601030
If your IQ isn't in the double digits, there's no way you would have thought this shit was real from the moment it was posted.
Was so clearly fake and 300+ newfags all got baited.

>>646601148
Timestamp or gtfo

well played OP you got all the newfags excited

>>646601362
lets do it boi

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>>646601244
very, since you guys fell for this

WTF IS GOING ON!!!

I don't care if it was staged. It was better than trap/dubs/copypasta garbage that usually inhabits this board.

>>646601416
HAH my IQ is single digits
Joke's on you!

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>>646601402

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>>646601548

>>646601548
HE TRICKED ME!

>>646601548


>>646601498

>>646601416
>makes fun of people for having double digit IQs
>literally can't count
dumbass

>>646601548
>Fell for it
some naive kids did fall for it but most of us are bored and have nothing better to do.

>>646601645
truth

>>646601148
Fucking time stamp then, but wait, you can't because this isn't real

>>646601645
This

>>646601305
>hitting on women on the internet
>/b/ no less
>real man
kek. Didn't know boys turned into men at 12 years old

>>646601548
Dew lel funneh memes

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hay there at this location https://www.google.ca/search?q=laurier+science+building+hall&rlz=1C1ASUC_enCA603CA603&espv=2&biw=873&bih=915&tbm=isch&imgil=bqfuK2ZZlcRyEM%253A%253BX6RQZG5ZrWnN8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.thecord.ca%25252Fafter-hours-crack-down-in-the-science-building%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bqfuK2ZZlcRyEM%253A%252CX6RQZG5ZrWnN8M%252C_&dpr=1&usg=__tbrTkOKfxr9_mab_NeE8OkiubGg%3D&ved=0CDYQyjdqFQoTCKCwq9HWxcgCFYIaHgodNv8HzQ&ei=9TwgVuDhJYK1eLb-n-gM#imgrc=bqfuK2ZZlcRyEM%3A&usg=__tbrTkOKfxr9_mab_NeE8OkiubGg%3D

>>646601777
checked

>>646601645
True that

what is the context here

>>646601852
shit son where is OP?

>>646601737
topkek

>>646601787
That's when normal guys hit puberty. Still waiting for it to hit you?

>>646601852
stampd ohhhh shitttttt

>>646601852
Yee

>>646601852
gurl, he fat?

>>646601852
why haven't I seen tits yet

>>646601903
Basking in his 4chan fame.

>>646601852
HAHAHAHHA ... this bitch is POPPED...

>>646601852
And fag OP hasn't said anything?

>>646601852
OP is clearly taking the photo

>>646601852
Oh Fuck....

>>646601912
>implying puberty has anything to do with being a man
You sure are summer aren't you kiddo

>>646601852
what the fuck is right hand doing and where did the black ring go

>>646601852
Kinda pointless when all the newfags already figured out this is setup

>>646601903
He ran back to his mother's basement giggling and prancing the whole damn way.

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For some of you guys who weren't in the last thread

>OP posts a picture of a girl browsing 4chan
>Someone suggests drawing pepe and throwing a piece of paper asking to be friends
>OP misses and its left on the floor
>OP draws another picture and it hits her in the head
>Girl posts to /b/ calling OP a kissless virgin

Get it? Ok now we're waiting to see if one of them posts again or if it was an elaborate troll

>>646601852
obviously a boy

>>646601852
Guys, wait a minute.

WHO'S HOLDING THE FUCKING CAMERA?

>>646601852
8 year olds are now allowed on college campus?

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>>646601852
fucking update you fucking faggots

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>>646601852
OH FUCK where that autistic tardbwhos stalking you

>>646602014
Busy tearing up dat ass.

>>646602050
>>>50 GET

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>>646601814

>>646601852
OP, REPORT FAGGIT,

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>>646601548
Its not about falling for it.

>artistic works of fiction and falsehood

We're just along for the ride, whether the ride be fake or not.

>>646601852
BROWN TITS OR GTFO

>>646602029
probably laptop taking the pic m8

>>646602041
It's how civilizations judged it for thousands of years newfag.

>>646602109
MacBook w/ built in webcam?
as seen on table in earlier pics

>>646601852
What happened to OP?! What did he look like???

>>646602014
He's not saying anything because he's letting the girl take control now. It's staged.

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JUST DO IT YOU MASSIVE FAGGOT

>>646602209
she was on ipad

>>646602109
She could be using the mac that was in front of her

>>646602109
im telling you... if you look at the picture he took .. you can see her sitting at a table empty.. but there is shit across from her and the chair is skewed. Anon is a fake. This is a troll

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>>646601852
HOLD UP PEOPLE, HOW THE FUCK WAS THAT PHOTO TAKEN?

>>646602273
probably had a laptop available

>>646601852
SHOW POOPER NIGGER WHORE

>>646601548
>mtn dew

where's OP? I demand pic of OP!

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>>646601852
Have we met before?

>>646602400
dubs seal of approval

>>646602359
There are timer apps that can delay the picture being taken.

>>646602359
She had a Macbook on the table

>>646602359
OP IS A FAKE!!!

>>646602453
My nigga

>>646601852
WHAT THE FUCK EVER HAPPENED TO FUCKING TITS OR GTFO
FUCKING BULLSHIT

>>646602368
See>>646601548

>>646602471
But it'd be hard to have the ipad at that angle without something decent enough to prop up on

welp, it was a fun ride fellas. lets go back to masturbating to retards and shove plastic dicks in our asses

>>646602453
If Only...

>>646602099
New friends look here to catch up to speed

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>>646602359
>tfw it was all an inside job

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>>646601852
aw shit son

>>646602617
See>>646602568

>>646602566
She wasn't attention whoring or using her gender for a reason. Learn the rules or gtfo

yo OP im at kings street res. on my way

>>646602671
underrated post

>>646602359
How about a webcam you fucking autist.

>>646602656
Wait, you stopped???

It's been fun.
Unless some other anon can get there and bust em both, I'm out.

>>646602671
Found wally

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>>646602671
god damnit

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>>646602758
Uhoh. this niggas bout to REK SHOP!!!

Today I bought a 5 dollar lottery ticket and won 2.5 dollars

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>>646601416
>Hey guise jokes on newfags, arent we oldfags awesome. I came over because of the Fappening doesnt that make me an oldfag now.
Kill yourself

>>646602859

anon says he's going
>>646602745

>>646601947
yea hahaha
>>646602045
LOL i was trying to figure out how to hold up the paper

>>646602109
its my laptop dumbass

>>646602116
i think campus police are talking to him

OP don't be a bitch where the fuck did you go?!

OP is taking the photo?
Op is not a fagget

You guys are idiots. The only 'proof' you have that it's fake is that there was a ton of stuff on the table, and the chair she was probably kicking her feet up in wasn't perfectly under the table.

It's legit. Get over your conspiracy theories. All signs point to legit.

>>646599450

>>646603051
Did you actually call campus police?

>>646603101
>All signs point to legit.
I can't begin to tell how gullible this guy is

>>646603051
Pic of him getting chatted up!

>>646602758
we'll get this all straightened out in no time

>>646603051
Post a picture of him like he did to you

>>646603051
Could be legit.
Feels honest.

"who's holding the camera"
You fags are retarded.
>camera setup
>timer

>>646603175
>Did you actually call campus police?
ya

its funny because Laurier is on a reading week at the moment. Therefore it can be concluded that OP has no friends or family to go back to and is therefore on campus

>>646601852
East coast?

I get that you guys are all saying this was a clever ruse but nothing about it makes sense. HOW the fuck was it OP trolling? OP wasn't grill all along, were they in on it together?

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>>646603251
roll

>>646603205

All your 'proof' - ALL of it, - has been debunked. You have nothing that says it was staged except your autistic chanting.

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Pic of autist or gtfo.

>>646603051
So you actually called campus police? You bitch...

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>>646603051
How could you resist his call of love?

>>646603251
>>646603223
This

>>646603335
bitch why???

>>646603335
Prove it yo

>>646603335
so close to getting QUADS

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>>646603051
post of a picture of him its only fair he took so many of you

>>646603051
He drew you pretty pictures. The least you could do is touch his peepee you ungrateful cunt. This is why you sheboons cant find nice men.

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>>646603377

>>646603335
Post proof

>>646603251
Rolling

>>646603416
Fat dude just wanted to be friends poor guy

>>646599349
Each piece of paper on the ground is the exact same, gtfo fag

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Fake and gay.

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>>646603051
You two could've been best friends if he wasn't autistic

>>646603553
Faggot, that wasnt OP

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>>646603398
please!

>>646603383
No, it hasn't been debunked. Go away.

SOMEONE PLEASE REPOST "THE CABIN" NOPE CREEPYPASTA PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>646603051
>i think campus police are talking to him
>>646603175
>Did you actually call campus police?
>>646603399
>So you actually called campus police? You bitch...

If you were some girl alone trying to study and some fat autist was circling you, taking pictures, and throwing shit at you for an hour, you would probably get a little concerned for your safety. She did the right thing.

Is love dead

️️️️️ ️️️️️️️️️️ ️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️️ ️️️ SGAF GNINRAW

we need to go deeper

>>646603798
Imagine telling this "how I met your mother" story to your kids kek

>>646603798
>trying to study
While browsing 4chan? Fucking retard.

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>>646603827
find the connections, anon

>>646603798
Could've had fun with it though

>>646603816
for fatties throwing paper at you with pepe on the piece of paper it is.

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>>646603798

TOOO THE RESCUUUUE

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OP here i just wanted me some nigger pussy

>>646603706
>No, it hasn't been debunked.

PLEASE tell me how it's fake. Her not holding ipad for a picture? The picture of the 5 balled up papers being photoshopped? The excessive crap on the table? Everything has been explained away. There is nothing left. If you had been following the thread, you'd know there was zero evidence that it was staged.

>>646603798
Yeah. Probably the rational thing to do. Even though she should have just called the beta out and make him run away in blubbery cringeful fear.

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>>646603051
>>646603335

If this is legitimate, you're a fucking jerk.

OP wasn't taking creepshots just saying hurr look dis hot grill on 4chan, he was a socially anxious person trying to get tips on how to talk to you.

He draws you sweet pepe picture because he notices you have something in common and you call campus police? You're a straight up cold person

>>646603958
I drew her a Pepe
She touched mah peepee
Den we had you kids.

>>646604019
fuck off NOT OP

>>646604019
>rotating the image
gg faggot

>>646603974
i was taking a break bitch

>>646603798
Yeah, and it's what he gets for being a pussy beta and not just talking to her in the first place. Worst case scenario if he did that "Ew get the fuck away weirdo" now the bitch gets consequences. Femanon: Kudos to you, although I probably would have just posted his pics on here to laugh at him

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>>646603958
Kids, I was throwing memes at your mother for about one hour before she called me fat.

>>646604090
I'm telling that to my kids even though I'm not OP. Screen capped for posterity.

>>646603974
>While browsing 4chan? Fucking retard.

She said herself she stopped to "actually study." Stop trying to debate the legitimacy of a thread that you haven't even read.

The moral of the story is:
Don't talk to girls, if you try the police drag your ass away.

so, wheres the beta?

>>646604313
/thread

laurier is trash. waterloo for life

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Mods should've sticky the last thread. It was the most entertaining one in a while.

>>646604313
No, anon.

The moral is, don't throw scrunched up balls of pepe paper at girls with thread numbers on them.
Because then the police drag your ass away.

>>646604128
>I was throwing memes
lol

OP, cum in your hand and throw it at her!

i missed the few threads before this except for first one. what happened? did girl notice?

hmm

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>>646604263

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>>646604258
>claims not to be op
>implying not op

OP is kill?

>>646604313
no just talk to them instead of being a fucking creep

>>646604313
>throwing pieces of paper with memes on them is your idea of "talking" to a girl

Yeah makes sense.

>>646604033
The "I will call police" part is fucking made up. Remember that she is also a /b/tard. That kind of reaction from someone like that sounds fake.

>>646604454
I 2nd that. that is how I met my girlfriend

>>646604404
>patented pepe paper

>>646604404
>Pepe paper
Dunno why but that made me kek my pants.

>>646604313
Correction. Don't circle around and take pictures of a female for an hour, or else the cops will drag you away. Had OP walked up and said hi, she'd have laughed at him and he'd go home and post about how women are evil. No real harm done. But it's just fucking creepy what he did.

Fuck you femanon poor dude just wanted to be friends. Better off without your bitch ass anyway

>>646604051
>Even though she should have just called the beta out and make him run away in blubbery cringeful fear.

A woman's thought and reaction process is generally different from a man's, as you know. As life goes by, you start to notice all the consistence patterns. Her response is one of them. It's fine. Woman thing.

>>646600536
>hasn't seen it reposted a million times before

>newfag detected

>>646604705
I bet he tried to run after he threw the paper but his fat ass hasn't had exercise in so long it took the girl to post on /b/ and call the campus cops on him before he even made it to an exit

>>646603051
Bit harsh

Well, as the OP of this thread, I'm calling it quits... idgaf what happens between femanon and betanon
cya later fags

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>>646604596
>>646604612

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>>646604973
Ditto, im going to bed

Gonna kick your ass as you leave SMC library, faggot

>>646604550
>The "I will call police" part is fucking made up. Remember that she is also a /b/tard.

Woman react differently than men. There is no mystery here. A man would have either left, examined the situation, or played the game. A lone women is not likely to stick her neck out into a situation with so many unknown factors unless she has to.

would of liked to know if he taped the pussy but i gusse he diddent

can someone please explain what has unfolded here?

>>646603784
THISSSSSSSSSSSSS

>>646605067
Jeez Louise

Is this the end of this? fucking retarded.

>>646605167
Nigger niggin.

>>646605186
X - D

Moral of the story:
If you just have a shred of confidence all of your women problems would disappear.

>>646605167
Something shit but all these retards are hyping it up

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>>646605129
>>646604550
>mfw i realise you niggers are still debating the validity of this thread

Let it go. Doesn't matter if real or not. It was most amusing.

>>646605125
get 'im anon
YOU GO FUCKING GET HIM

>>646605167
ure mom

>>646605150
>taped the pussy

>>646605167
Something was unfolding, but it seems to have folded itself back up again.

>>646603784
>>646605295
>>646605186
PLEASE FAGGOT ITS NOT FUNNY, rEPOST THE "cabin" CREEPYPASTA NOW, I WAS READING IT AND EXPLORER CRASHED I CANT FIND IT, PLEASE I NEED TO IKNOW HOW IT ENDS

>>646605167
>fat beta faggot saw possible hot grill
>circling her taking creepshots
>asks /b/ for advice
>takes the bad advice
>draws a pepe on a piece of paper and throws at her
>misses
>does it again
>she notices
>calls cops

>>646605459
unless it was all a setup

Im going to make an encyclopedia dramatic article about this, what should i name this?

>>646605339
This. I pretend like this stuff is real cause it's more fun that way.

>>646605355
>>646605125
FUCKIN BASH HIS ED IN LADDY

It can't end like this, it just can't.

>>646605459
>two 'friends' trolling /b/
fixed

>>646605459
proud, son

I have a confession guys. I don't even think the girl was black. Indian, maybe. Latina?

>>646605543
Ode to a beta

File: what the fuck.png (419KB, 300x900px) Image search: [Google]

419KB, 300x900px

this thread has won the autist of the year award. Op please just go and talk to the girl. So anon does not beat your ass when you leave. Even austic as i am i, would have had the balls too say hello and make, a big conversation and said stuff about the papers you would have threw.

>>646605543
"that time op was a faggot"

wait
too generic

>>646605543
The Potent Power of Pepe Paper

File: 1401819971135.png (184KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

184KB, 500x375px

>>646605459
what a retarded ending for our little betanon

>>646605543
Get the fuck back to reddit

>>646605623
yes, me too. Sieg Hail

>>646605643
>autist
>op
>not you who falls for this obvious pasta

TOPPPSSORKEKSONATORRI

>>646605536
Senator wellstone all over again man. Only this time with actual valid reasoning it might be set up.

>>646605654
This

>>646605322
i like this explanation the best

File: 1437233352551.gif (2MB, 320x200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x200px

>hey i havent been on /b/ in quite awhile let's see how many tits threads there are on the front page
>top thread is some tiny chink twit stalking a nigger
never change

>>646605750
how is it pasta you retarded faggot

>>646605654
winrar

>>646605623
She was most likely indian, there's tons of them in Ontario.
Some of them are fucking hot too.
Sounds like OP fucked up.

>>646605730
>Sieg Hail
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sieg_Heil
tfw sieg heil

>>646605891
sari

>>646605543
Pepe the pickup artist

>>646605543
rare pepe, rare love

>>646606077
the fuck are you trying to say now

Think about it though, how does this work out...
Walk past girl
Browsing /b/
Say "hey girl, i see you are a /b/tard, let's hook up"
She says "1&2 FAGIT GTFO"
Calls police and u r v&

Throwing Pepe is legit strat

>>646605543
The Betanon that miss used the power of PePe

>>646605432
>>646605186
>>646605295
>>646603784
POST THE CABIN CREEPY PASTA NWO NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!now cabin creePY PASTA NOW NOW NOW POST IT I NEED TO FINISH READING IT NOW

>>646605697
let's be honest, there's no other way it could have ended.

Real or not.