>>611553996 Anybody that gives a shit about "Reality" in comic books is full of shit. The whole point is that its about the imagination you stupid fuck, and to that regard yes Batman wins and superman gets his fucking ass kicked.
A movie like this can only end up with batman wearing plot armor to win with prep time. The whole movie is just going to be plot armor to give batman the conditions he needs to use his own plot armor to beat superman
Oh did I say beat. I meant survive.
Superman can't beat batman because it would be over too fast. Batman can't beat superman because well its superman and he pretty much never loses so batman of all people won't be the one to do it
So you're going to get batman getting really close to winning and he either gets the most ridiculous batman hax you've ever seen or something happens where its a draw
The thing everyone here doesn't seem to realize is that Batman HAS to win. Comics, movies, TV, doesn't matter. Batman HAS to win. Batman is just a man and Superman is essentially a god. So the comic writers are like 'Well shit, now what? This is gonna be the shortest fight in history!' So they consistently come up with shittier and shittier ways for Batman to win.
If Superman won every encounter they had (and let's all be really honest here, of course he would) then the comic would be boring and no one would buy them.
But if, just if, Batman won against Superman (for whatever dumb reason), then that would show all of us piddly little stupid humans buying the comic that despite our frail bodies, minds, etc. that a man can defeat a superman. And that would sell like crazy. And there you have it. Batman wins every time. Because he HAS to.
Which totally sucks, cuz I love Superman. He is, without a doubt, the best superhero ever. Everyone reading this will have arguments to the contrary, and all will have valid points. But if I were to say to you, 'What is a superhero?' the very first thing to pop into your head would be Superman. Don't deny it. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean you don't like Batman any less (or whichever superhero you waifu at the moment) It just means that Superman is the epitome of what it is to be a superhero.
To be continued..... if I don't get blasted by Batman lover's everywhere.
>>611558712 > if I were to say to you, 'What is a superhero?' the very first thing to pop into your head would be Superman ubiquitous =/= best Superman is quite possibly the worst superhero of all. He has nothing in anyway that makes him an interesting character. He is not at all relatable and he is a complete mary-sue.
Do you mean the result based on the logical constraints and motivations of each fictional character, or the result we should expect from the movie? Either way the answer is that the only way batman could possibly win is if superman is unwilling to just nuke from orbit. In that case, it's not really batman vs superman, it's batman vs bitch mode superman.
Here's why Superman is the best. Countless times, writers have tackled the idea of 'What if Superman went bad'. They flesh out a non-canon story and somehow, the world's superheros would band together and defeat this new enemy. Blah, blah, blah, comic sales, blah. But here's the thing, Superman wouldn't do that. Ever. He just wouldn't. It's why he's the best.
Despite having all these powers. Despite being so overpowered that writers literally had to keep giving him weaknesses in order to make it fair to the rest of DC heroes/villians (weakness to magic, really? Oh and don't get me started on his 'weakness to lightning/electricity') Despite all that, Superman just wants to help the world. That's all, he just wants to help.
Superman could very easily take over the world, nothing could stop him. Its why so many villians have tried to recruit him, because he's practically unstoppable. But no, Superman shuts them down everytime, because he is that good. He is that righteous. And I believe that Batman relies on that.
During these arguments, everyone always says that Batman will outsmart Superman. That he will have already come up with a contingency that will counter anything that Superman can throw at him. But that's just it. That IS Batman's contingency. That Superman just won't do anything like that. Yes, Superman gave Batman kryptonite just in case. But that was really for Superman's peace of mind than because Batman wanted it. Batman is smart enough to know that he would never need it. Because Superman would never do anything to harm anyone on Earth.
Now people will argue that Superman sucks because he is so goody-goody. Or a, "Mary-Sue". But that's just it, Superman is a SUPERHERO. The word alone means he is not just an average hero with average character flaws. He is above all that.
Which is why Batman exists. To be the antithesis to Superman.To be the Yin to his Yang. To have all the flaws that Superman can't have.
>>611552909 Assuming that they both have adequate time to prepare for battle, batman would beat him hands down. He would probably come out of it brutally maimed, but he would definitely kill superman. Like theres a movie that i cant recall the name off where he basically fights for his life against superman, and he has green arrow fire a shot at him laced with kryptonite dust, when superman catches the arrow, he inhales he residue and batman basically gives him the what for, and that he should still be humble with all his superman might.
>>611561467 >Here's why Superman is the best. Countless times, writers have tackled the idea of 'What if Superman went bad'. They flesh out a non-canon story and somehow, the world's superheros would band together and defeat this new enemy. Blah, blah, blah, comic sales, blah. But here's the thing, Superman wouldn't do that. Ever. He just wouldn't. It's why he's the best... So Superman is the best because he is a shallow one dimensional character?
And you can still write a superhero and have them be complexed and flawed. Superhero doesn't equal completely perfect because a completely perfect character is, by their very definition, boring.
>>611561959 That's Dark Knight Returns, which is non-canon. Superman could never actually lose though. And in Dark Knight Returns, had Green Arrow not hit the arrow, Batman would have lost so bad it wouldn't have even been funny.
>>611561467 It's also why he's boring as fuck, and why everyone wants batman to kick his ass. Perfect, inhuman characters don't make for good fiction. They're great for wartime military propaganda, but that's about it.
I can't relate to Superman at all, he just tries to do what he can with what he's got, which is bullshit because space aliens aren't real. I relate much better to Batman because he was born into enormous wealth that makes the average king look like a shit-eating peasant and he's always the best at everything because the writer said so and he's an expert at all of the fighting styles and he a genius detective and he can fight gods because they forget that they're capable so Batman can win. Batman is way more realistic as a character.
>>611561467 You have really shit taste. I mean to each his own and all, but you laud things that are classically and objectively negative, things that are trademarks of bad character writing, and hail them as good.
I mean my point to go with that is yeah, batman has no powers, so if it boiled down to a street alleyway meeting battle to the death, superman eould kill him. But because batman is infinitely smarter than superman, preparation time would give him the edge he would need to win
>>611552909 I think, that the amount of movies that revolve around solitary hero worship saving the world by shooting and exploding their way out of every situation, indicates that USicans really just want to be sheep. This idea that some militant ubermensch lone operator is going to come out of nowhere to save you and your civilization from consequence and let you go on with your lives as is so you never have to lift a fucking finger to take the risk of changing how you live your shitty little lives, seems to be the #1 thing people want to see when they watch films and read books and comics and go to church.
I wouldn't care at all, and barely do, but for the fact that at this point, mankind is too big for that. Humanity will not be saved from the destination it's chugging on down the tracks toward by the outdated all-powerful Great Man fantasy figure archetype of the past. It can only be saved by billions of people updating their underlying philosophies to match humanities enormous present reality.
Now people will say, 'That's why Batman is better. Because he has those flaws. Because he is human, with human needs and human wants' But that doesn't make Batman better, it just makes him different.
The idea here is not what would make a good story or what will relate to people the most in order to sell comics. The idea is of a superhero. A being that will not faulter in the face of great evil. Will not even consider the idea of giving up, or changing sides. A being that only has kindness and respect in his/her heart. That idea is, for all intents and purposes, the idea of Superman. It is why he never falters. It is why he is at the front of the Justice League line up. It is why you think of Superman first when thinking of a superhero. It is why Superman is the greatest superhero if all time.
And now, I'm done preaching and will begin accepting all insults to my, 'Nah Nah Boo Boo Stick Your Head In Doo Doo' folder.
>>611563278 You're completely misreading the symptoms. People don't just like hero action, they also like villain action. Breaking bad and game of thrones are prime examples. We don't give a shit about the morals or consequences, we just want to see as much death and destruction as possible. It's always been that way, all the way back to public executions.
Anyone who uses Batman could kill Superman because of Dark Knight Returns is a complete retard. Batman had Green Arrow, nukes and Kryptonite and Superman repetitively said "I will not fight you". You fan boys are so deluded with this shitty piece of writing. It is an elseworlds story by a bad writer.
If the character writing is so bad, why does it sell so many comics? Why is Superman one of the flagship characters of DC comics?
The writers have made Superman interesting in so many ways despite being 'boring' or 'overpowered'. I would rather applaud the writers for doing that than curse them for making a boring character.
It's kind of like writing for the character of God. How does a writer make that interesting when literally anything is possible? But somehow they do and some of the best screenplays/stage-plays have been produced as a result.
Superman is not boring. Superman is just what everyone should aspire to be.
Not really conceited. Just a realist who knows that everyone has their own opinion and will attack others for trying to present arguments to the contrary. If I let that get to me, then I wouldn't be a very happy person.
>>611564225 The writers don't make his perfection interesting, they temporarily change him so that he's interesting. They make him randomly flip his shit, they give him a weakness, they make him in some way imperfect, because the character as you describe him is about as interesting as a glass of water.
And those screen/stage plays about God you're talking about? Those aren't about the actions of God, those are about the lives of humans, often of Jesus, because humans are way more interesting. They could make a play exclusively from God's perspective, but it'd be boring as shit.
>>611565210 If he lost all his money, he couldn't invent anything.
In movies, where money grows on trees, it doesn't cost anything to invent shit. In reality, the cost of prototyping is fucking enormous. I build 3 small components for racing bicycles, out of aerospace composites, with relatively low precision, and we spent 3 million on finite element analysis, prototyping, and stress testing them first. To make a few bicycle parts. Tony Stark needs billions and billions to skim an R&D budget off the top of in order to fund his inventing habit. And needs to hire several hundred engineers to have a hope in hell of doing all the low level shit work, even with his software and robots.
Good point. I'm not above taking criticisms. However, not all of Superman's stories change some aspect of him to make him interesting. I personally find him interesting despite his 'perfection'. And besides, he isn't totally perfect. With regards to superpowers he is, but with regards to emotions, pain, even death' Superman is not perfect. He is not God in that way. And yes, many plays, movies, etc. about God are about the people he influenced. But there are a few from His perspective that are still interesting. We cannot truly comprehend God. It's just not possible. (at least as far as I know, but I'm just a dumb ol' human being) So truly writing from His perspective is impossible.
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