Prove that a historical Jesus ever existed. >protip:

Please, Christfags. Direct me to single shred of concrete evidence that a human Jesus ever lived. Do something that no one has ever been able to do. Prove just the man, not even the God.

I'm waiting.

>>607877808
Historians have proven his existence, faggot. He is mentioned in a shit ton of both roman and hebrew texts.

>>607879238
No he's not, faggot. Show me one.

>>607879238
^

>>607879238
Nah, it's far from proven.

>>607879238
this

he existed but he didn't do anything magic, probably just quite an intelligent chap

>>607879238

Name one from the 1st century AD.

>>607877808
the bible states his existence, and is the oldest known book in existence. id say it holds more ground in an argument about whether jesus existed than some historian writing anything in the present day

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>>607877808
if wew lad exists jesus exists

>>607879394
Dickus Longus comes to mind

>>607877808
Check Wikipedia at "Sources for the historicity of Jesus"

Faggots.

>>607879482
>bible
>oldest known book
is this bait?

>>607877808

Prove that you'e not a faggot

>>607879482
kek. You can't be serious.

>>607879680
/thread

>>607879680
Not a single historian took notic eof Jesus during his lifetime. Fact. The first citation of him in written history was by Flavius Josephus in the late 1st century AD, but it was proven to be a forgery. The next earliest is the roman historian Tacitus in the 2nd century AD.

There is literally not a single reference to Jesus Christ by a single contemporary historian.

>>607877808

prove that [insert name of any person not currently alive] existed

protip: you cant

>>607879683
show me an older book then

>>607879763
i can, and i am. multiple authors all who knew him verifying each other. what can a modern historian who wasn't even there tell me about this?

>>607880236
The bible is not a book. It started as a scroll. Any greek or egyptian texts are much, much older.

>>607880236
The Iliad you stupid cunt.

>>607878190
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

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wew lad

>>607880492
Now please direct me to the single shred if concrete evidence that Jesus ever lived that you can't find in there.

People who deny Jesus existed are seriously as bad as people who STILL believe the Earth is flat.

Stop being ignorant and educate yourselves, you fucking retards.

>>607880666
Show me evidence then Satan.

>>607879573
I think you mean Biggus Dickus

>>607880468
i guess i can understand why you'd believe that, but as the chapters in genesis were occurring at before 1200bc, when the Iliad was supposedly from, this makes the bible significantly older

>>607880636
They believe in superpowers and gods. Imagine the things they interpret into a wiki article.

>>607880666
Explain to me why John the Baptist was so well documented during his lifetime, yet a man who apparently kicked his ass at miracles and was personally executed by a fucking Roman governor didn't leave a single impression on the historians of the time?

>>607880236
>>607880492
The only non bible sources in that article are Flavius and Tacitus, both too young to have known a jesus, and flavius being a confirmed forgery.

>>607880909
Code of Hammurabi.

>>607881241

That was more of a rock, wasn't it?

>>607881341 implying the medium matters, ignoring the newness of the printing press, not recognizing we're just barely starting a new age of information storage

>>607879238
Saying Jesus didn't exist is like saying emperor Augustus Caesar didn't exist. Sure, he probably wasn't quite a miracle worker, but his philosophies still have a huge impact on our lives today.

Yeah, I thought so.

Enjoy your Easter you fucking retards.

Prove he didn't or rather still does exist.

We should bring back that "christians to the lions" thing.

How can you say that something exists and the only prove that you have that there is no prove against it?

There was a giant flying spaghetti monster. Prove me tha i am wrong.
Protip you can't

>>607881782

I used to be 15 too

>>607881780
Except that people wrote shit down about Augustus Caesar during his lifetime. Show me a contemporary source that documents the existence of a historical Jesus. I double dog dare you.

>>607881047
Your argument:

>If one historical person is more well-documented than another, the latter must not have existed.

Talk to me when you graduate high school, champ.

>>607877808

Tacitus is the most widely accepted due tot the level of -detail- he included in historical context. Even the most skeptical historian accepts this. Also you're a faggot, OP.

He's got you talking about him. Happy Easter.

>>607882001
Where did I say he didn't exist? I just one shred of evidence.

>>607881885
>Prove he didn't
onus probandi much?

>>607881935
Where was the monster? When did it exist? Was there any census and excise records of it? Was it prominent enough to start a huge religion to which its teachings were central?
Wew lad.

>>607881935
>>There was a giant flying spaghetti monster.

IS. You fucking heretic.

Praise Him. Reach out today and be touched by His noodly appendage.

>>607882003
Tacitus. 2nd century AD. 100 years after jesus.

Show me one single contemporary source documenting the existence of a historical Jesus.

>>607882070
People also talk about Satan and Allah.

Point?

>>607882001 That's not his argument at all. While he does highlight weight of evidence, it speaks more to the validity of the initial affirmative claim.
>>607882070 So talking about Jack Ryan makes him real?

>>607880071
Actually Josephus references Jesus in his book of jewish history. He writes that Jesus was a wise teacher who gathered a large following and people claimed he performed miracles. According to Josephus, Jesus' disciples stole his body to fake his resurrection and expand his following.

>>607882234
Yes a retarted kid said he saw it 70 years ago and now there is a Religion called the noodlists.

ugh at some point I just decided she was going to be my wife from there I just kind of stopped giving a fuck. i wanted to say that out loud be prepared for more outbursts /b/hive

>>607882198
>Where did I say he didn't exist?

>implying you weren't implying

Go back to trolling your teenaged classmates, faggot.

Gay

>>607882234
You're making the correct arguments against historical Jesus, including that the propagation of ideas enough to make a religion doesn't evince existence.

>>607882416 Not primary source. Besides, stolen body is as valid a claim as "didn't die on cross."
>>607882462 ?
>>607882487 he wasn't implying, it was a contrast in standards of evidence

>>607882328

There are so many in the first century it's unreal. And Josephus, even though you think it's a "forgery" wrote a hell of a lot about his existence as a teacher. Why argue with a faggot like you? Name me one credible historian who doubts he existed.

Lol wtf? People still believe this shit in 2015?

>>607877808

there are records when he was a teenager of going to the hindu mountains..
google it.

>>607882896
>There are so many in the first century it's unreal.
cite some, then
>And Josephus, even though you think it's a "forgery" wrote a hell of a lot about his existence as a teacher
acknowledges forgery, defends it because of length

>>607883057
lel what? also as he who posits, the burden of proof rests on you, not google

>>607882896
Dr. Richard Carrier.
Robert M. Price

Show me a single first century source besides Josephus. Who wasn't born until after Jesus died and never claimed to be a first hand account.

>>607882804
They were asking for evidence of his existence not evidence of his miracles. I provided a respected historian from that time period that acknowledges Jesus' existence.

>>607877808
even jews who hated him wrote about Jesus outside the Bible during his time.

>>607883247
>Who wasn't born until after Jesus died and never claimed to be a first hand account.

And was at least a partial forgery.

>>607883275
>implying credibility
>>607883275
>They were asking for evidence of his existence not evidence of his miracles.
So was I, and you failed to meet that burden.

>>607883275
You provided a single historian who was writing nearly a hundred years after the death of Christ.

Show me a contemporary source, like I've been asking for.

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>>607883411
Josephus is considered credible, look it up.
>neckbearding this hard

>Proof of a historical Jesus?
>Literally nothing.

Get rustled Christfags.

>>607883815
>When you have no argument just poison the well.

Sick may may bro.

Atheists who are completely unwilling to accept the fact that Jesus was a real human who existed, or that there is the slight possibility that God exists, are as bad as Christians who run around shouting hellfire at the heathens.

It's not the fact of whether Jesus was a human or not, this whole thing is a bait argument of atheists circejerking "show me the proof." None of you atheists would accept proof if Jesus knocked at your front door and magically gave you three heads, because you still would be set in your euphoric ways.

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>>607883576

/thread

A classical "op is a faggot"

>>607883988
Did I ask for proof of a historical Jesus? Or did I ask you to cry about it?

>>607883988
I don't trust you skeleton.

>>607884187

Who's crying? All I'm saying is that people who believe he exists generally will tend to always believe he exists no matter what, and people who believe he doesn't exist will always believe that he doesn't exist.

>>607883988
CAN'T FOOL ME SKELLY

>>607883095

>>There are so many in the first century it's unreal.
>cite some, then

>"There are so many texts documenting the civil war"
>"cite some, then"

If you don't believe anything without your eyes personally seeing the evidence firsthand, you must not believe in much.

>>607883842

Don't worry, bro, I used to jerk myself off over how superior my intelligence was too.

It'll wear off when your balls drop.

>>607883988
>None of you atheists would accept proof if Jesus knocked at your front door and magically gave you three heads

Yes I would.

>>607879238
The character Jesus is actually caesarean caesar, the child of Julius Caesar and cleopatra who disappeared

>>607879700
Protip: you can't

>>607884350
>people who believe he exists generally will tend to always believe he exists no matter what
Wrong. Many have been deconverted.
>people who believe he doesn't exist will always believe that he doesn't exist.
Wrong. Many have been converted.

>>607884350
Show me a Roman record of his execution and I'd be completely satisfied that a historical Jesus existed. As it is now I think one probably did. BUT! I reiterate. Show me one single shred of motherfucking proof that one did. I beg of you.

>>607884447
>making fun of intelligence

I have no faith in humanity.

HURRY UP ANDROMEDA GALAXY.

>>607883815
reasoned arguments are now neckbearding, got it.

>not even insulting me for valid reasons like short height, extra pounds from medicine, or disabled veteran status
>>607883988 your post makes no sense in the context of atheists seeking evidence and accepting it
>>607884425 it's not a matter of my belief, but your inability to understand the different weights and validity of evidence, as clearly shown in your post
>>607884447 it's not a matter of superior intelligence

>>607884640

While you are correct, as far as threads on /b/ go, I don't think we'll see many deconversions nor conversions.

>>607884350
>people who believe he doesn't exist will always believe that he doesn't exist.
onus...fucking...probandi

>>607884655
Even if he did; he's still got all his work ahead of him as this does nothing to show Jesus had a bunch of magical powers.

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>>607879238
Those text were either used in the Bible or written long after compiled into the Bible. You've failed.

Even historians know Jesus was loosely based on several people crucified, and a singular being of Jesus never existed.

>The Bible says He did.

Atheists - 0
Christians - 1

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>>607877808
>you use wew lad when you're lonely, when you feel like no one understands you, when you know you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, when you feel degraded, humiliated, forced. When your car won't start, when you have to wake up early to get ready for exams, when your parents die in the bliss is sheer ignorance, when you feel xenophobia affects those around you, when you feel like you want to make a change, a change for the better, a brighter 4chan, a 4chan of multicultural memes and joyful banter, then you know, you can always count of wew lad.

>>607884861

My point is that people set in their beliefs only want evidence to prove that they're right. You think an atheist is going to come to /b/ and get converted? Fuck no.

>>607884940
>I don't think we'll see

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. All you see here is text.

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>>607885036
>Spiderman comic says Spiderman is real therefore Spiderman is real

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>>607885095

And all you see here are dubs

>>607878190
Proof historical jesus existed?
Try the books of the new testament, they have the apostle accounts of Jesus. Sure you dont have to take word for word of whats in the bible but its still got some great ideas that are relevant even today.

>>607885227
Yeah, but that's a comic, not the Holy Word of God.

You're so ignorant, I feel bad for you.

From the references on the "Historicity of Jesus" wiki page.

>In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees"
>Robert M. Price (an atheist) who denies the existence of Jesus agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars.
>Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."
>Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more."

I am not sure if you've ever done any legitimate research before, OP, but when you study with a professor you realize there is a wealth of knowledge only found in libraries, costly subscriptions, and other professors' papers. As an example, I have seen writings of Machiavelli that are not available anywhere online for some reason, along with many other old authors works. Given this knowledge, it is difficult to say that a lack of reputable evidence from Google gives one a good reason to not believe in the existence of Jesus.

If this is something you truly care about finding the answer to, and you're a university student, schedule time with a professor. Otherwise, you'll have to dig deep elsewhere.

>>607885083 But that's wrong. Atheists don't (or shouldn't) want evidence in favor of their correctness, they're just properly understanding that the burden of proof rests on he who posits not he who negates.

>>607884861
You were born with a fedora on, weren't you?

I seriously don't think I've ever encountered a bigger neckbeard faggot than you. And I'm not talking about the content of your "arguments", I'm just talking about the way you speak. Get your head out of your ass, dude.

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>>607885289

Prove He didn't exist...

>>607885360
>believes in flood, Adam and Eve and maybe young earth
>calls dude ignorant

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>>607885360
>Yeah, but that's a comic, not the Holy Word of God.

Both are fictional stories written by man.

>>607885339
>Try the books of the new testament, they have the apostle accounts of Jesus.
uh, what?
>Sure you dont have to take word for word of whats in the bible
like virgin births
>but its still got some great ideas that are relevant even today.
like the basic shit every society does, as in Golden Rule and other norms and mores

>>607885549
lolu

>>607885424
>Richard A. Burridge
biblical professor
>>607885471 odd, I was being polite but you're assblasted at how wrong you are and anyone criticizing your bollocks religion. good use of ad hominem, though, don't you think?
>>607885531 onus probandi

>>607885449

Yeah, that's how Atheists SHOULD be, but not the neckbearded faggotry that goes on on /b/.

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>>607885424
Yes elitists working at Universities funded by Christian groups, nothing suspicious about that.

No, just no.

>>607883411
Basically, you're saying that you don't believe he existed, and no proof that anyone could offer will change your mind.
You're as stupid as a Christfag.

>>607885724
>uh what
Haha check out this fedora fag
Why dont you go educate yourself more on the history of how catholicism and the bible came to be
>Like virgin births
Exactly, you dont have to take it word for word you just gotta find the symbolic value
>Basic shit every society does
why dont you tell me what the indeginous americans, the vikings, and nazi germany had in common?

>>607877808
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dM22O2P27M

>>607885424
Again. I reiterate. All I want is a shred of proof that a historical Jesus ever existed. At no point do I make the claim that a historical Jesus DIDN'T exist. I want proof on did.

Why do people take it for granted that a historical Jesus existed if there is no proof? Because there is no proof. If there was proof the world would know. I;m pretty sure I wouldn't have to blow a professor in some secret library to get a hold of it.

Direct me to proof of a historical Jesus plz.

>>607884809

I wasn't making fun of superior intelligence, I was pointing out that only children tout it around like OP and his ilk tend to do.

If you were intelligent, you'd realize that.

>>607886550
I apologize for childishly touting my intelligence and humbly request that you direct me to proof that a historical Jesus existed.

>>607886495
Well asides from the new testament they have a few relics such as the shroud and many more writings from the past, all these are in the vatican. They even went to the hill where jesus was crucified and found the shed where the romans stored the wood and nails.

>>607886344
>no proof that anyone could offer will change your mind.

Yes it would. But not once in the history of this entire thing has proof EVER been given. Of any "God" or even a single supernatural event.

>>607885010
I don't know... there were Christians within a short period of his death. Then soon, a LOT of Christians.
Do you really think people were just that much more stupid 200 years ago? Obviously, many people talked of this guy and his sermons etc.
I know it's not scientific, but if this many people had heard of his existence (not the whole "son of god"thing; just his existence) then he was probably a real person.

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>>607885983

>odd, I was being polite
>your bollocks religion
>ad hominem
>onus probandi
>onus probandi
>onus probandi
>onus probandi
>onus probandi

>>607886344 I didn't say I would reject evidence, I said there's not that's credible
>>607886438
>Exactly, you dont have to take it word for word you just gotta find the symbolic value
if you don't believe basic shit like this then you're the same as an atheist saying "muh values"
>>607886438
>why dont you tell me what the indeginous americans, the vikings, and nazi germany had in common?
indig and natives were pretty cool guys, and great Godwin
>>607886550
>I wasn't making fun of superior intelligence, I was pointing out that only children tout it around like OP and his ilk tend to do.
>>607886550
>I wasn't making fun of superior intelligence, I was pointing out that only children tout it around like OP and his ilk tend to do.
they're not touting, though
>>607886550
>If you were intelligent, you'd realize that.
you are

>>607885983
>onus probandi
this isn't a court of law. you can't disprove God either.

>>607886977
All supposed relics have been dis-proven. Shroud of Turin carbon dated to between AD1260–1390.

>>607886990
Ok but you never mentioned the supernatural bullshit. I'm just talking about a man called Jesus existing, wandering around, telling his stories. That's it. I'm pretty sure this happened. The god stuff if bullshit, and I doubt that Jesus ever made these claims. Anyway, we'll never know.

>>607886495
Read my post again:
>there is a wealth of knowledge only found in libraries, costly subscriptions, and other professors' papers
>If this is something you truly care about finding the answer to, and you're a university student, schedule time with a professor. Otherwise, you'll have to dig deep elsewhere.
It is unlikely that you'll find good proof of the existence of any normal (as Jesus was not regarded as an outstanding existence at the time; crucifixions weren't uncommon) individual here.

>>607886338
>>607885983
I hope you are aware that your criticisms do not discredit my post. If anything, you note an obvious predisposition among some professors.

>>607886495
What standard of proof? Historical standard, or physical standard? i.e., the same level of proof we have for anyone who ever existed before the 1800's and photography? Or a higher standard because it's somehow different?

>>607887405
>I'm just talking about a man called Jesus existing, wandering around, telling his stories. That's it. I'm pretty sure this happened.

Just be aware that there is no proof that it ever did.

>>607887277
You also can't disprove that I can shoot pink and green fireballs out of my ass when no one's looking.

>>607885010
What I think is that initially someone wrote about a fictional Jesus themselves and other people started writing about him because it was a good story, and just built up on it. Or a person wrote about an actual crucifixion of someone named Jesus, but added stuff like magic and followers so that the story atleast has some base. It is even possible that others actually believed the story and faked stories to add to it so that people believe it more. Maybe a person named Jesus did eat dinner and talk with people but the person added drama and magic to it and got inspired for a story.

Could be many things.
It is very possible that a Jesus existed, but it could just be made up. Not that he did any mircales, but just that he existed, or a person who looks like the typical Jesus on the cross.

>>607887573
Show me a contemporary historical reference of the existence of Jesus.

>>607886887

Don't have any. Never claimed to either. Not a historian, nor, I'd wager, is anyone else in this thread, perhaps even this site.

Considering that, I don't see why one would feel justified in asking knowledge of people they know don't have it, instead of people who've actually studied and researched these things in an academic environment. Perhaps you should challenge actual historians instead of people who are only here to find porn and gore to save, then pat yourself on the back when they can't answer you.

>>607880127
There's pictures of Hitler

>>607887076
That's because people wanna believe things. It is human nature. They're afraid of death and find no meaning in life, and the fact that there was no knowledge of the world or physics or anything, some but barely, they wanna believe the first thing they can believe.

Cmon, there have been atleast 10k small pagan religions throughout humans existences. It's just human nature to believe things when they're desperate.

>>607887679
I also want to say that I am in no way religious and don't think that there is a god. But there could be, and no-one will ever know for sure until they die. To say otherwise is really very unscientific in its own right.
But there was probably a man called Jesus, on the balance of evidence.