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ITT: We debate the existence of God with philosophy.

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

Thread replies: 304
Thread images: 58

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ITT: We debate the existence of God with philosophy.
>>
In other words, famous philosophical approaches to proofs for and against God.

ANTI-GOD
The Problem of Evil:
>God is omnipotent.
>God is omnibenevolent.
>God is omniscient.
>There is evil in the world.

These four statements are seemingly contradictory unless one is proven to be false. For instance, God may be omnipotent and omnibenevlent, but no omniscient, and ths not aware of evil's existence.
>>
>>565119267
OP is a faggot.
All faggots suck dicks
Therefore, OP sucks dicks
>>
bump for curiosity
>>
FOR-GOD

Pascal's Wager:
>Believing in God may produce two outcomes: one leads to a reward in Heaven, and the other leads to nothing.
>Not believing in God either leads to nothing at best, or an eternity in Hell at worst.
>One should believe in God, since at worst there is nothing to lose and at best, he will be rewarded.
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>>565119267

I'm not so sure about debating with reference to philosophy. I don't know too much about that shit. I'm up for debating about it in general.
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>>565119267
N I G G E R S
>>
Niggers NiggersNiggers Niggers Niggers Niggers Niggers NiggersNiggers Niggers

God is a nigger
>>
>>565119267
A picture is worth a thousand words.
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>>565120370
sorry, but Pascal doesn't make the rules, thus any wager on behalf of God is void
>>
The only answer to this is "I don't know".
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If I ask two subjects if truth is relative, and one says yes and the other no, who is correct?
>>
>>565120370
I dont think basing ones beliefs on the basis of a win-sorta win scenario is much of life. Thats pussy shite
>>
ochams razor

its easier that god doesnt exist than that he does.

universe might have create itself more than god would have create itself... as well.
>>
What God? What properties does God need to have to be called God?
>>
>>565120370
Actually, there is something to lose, and that something would be time. You see, to truly prove your belief in God during your mortal life, you have to separate certain amount of time and effort to actually abide the religious laws, norms and traditions and conduct yourself in accordance to the same. Belief itself without a deed is nothing.
>>
I think God is very similar to aliens.

You can debate it extensively, spend your entire life devoted to the cause of discovery, and both are a complete waste of time.

It is not about whether or not you believe, it is about acceptance.
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>>565120906
depends on whether truth is relative, and what you define as truth
>>
>>565120536

You can give your own proof if you want. Anything's welcome here.

>>565120950

His argument admittedly wasn't very great. Still, it's a pretty commonly used one for whatever reason.
>>
>>565119267
anti-god: Occam's Razor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

the existence of a deity adds complexity to the known theorized model without achieving or contributing to the predictive power of scientific knowledge.
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Am I dumb for believing god created the big bang and god made us through evolution. I also think god is a chilled dude who doesn't interfere with life on earth apart from creating it and we all go to Heaven regardless of our life on earth. I've always believed in this since my parents gave me the freedom to choose in what I believed in.
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>>565121021
>>565121021

Actually, it's easier if God does exist, as to the understanding of the universe.
Y'know, 7 day universe, miracles... Occam's razor is on God's side dude
>>
>>565121132
Nah, god is like the number 7. Does the number 7 exist?
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>>565121478
that anon did a terrible job of explaining. please see >>565121352
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>>565121392
Why?
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The Stoic point of view.
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>>565121496

Can anything be non-existent?
>>
>>565121496
Does math exist in physicality? No. As a concept? Yes, math is a useful descriptor of both real and fictional concepts
>>
God is too complex for you to understand

He works in mysterious ways, you dumb faggots
>>
FOR-GOD

Aquinas's Unmoved Mover
>God is the cause of all movement in the Universe.
>Since it is evident to the senses that objects have motion, something must have moved something else without having been moved itself in the beginning of time.
>This unmoved mover is what we call God.
>>
>>565121737
>>565121737
Nah, man. I'm still right. Sure, it's more complicated to understand how God works, but with God, it's easier to understand how the universe works. "God works in mysterious ways"
>>
>>565122081
Do spinoza next! Do spinoza next!
>>
he doesn't not exist.
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So in ancient times, people were stupid. And they probably believed a lot of stupid shit. The Greeks had Gods for every little aspect of their lives; it made sense because they were stupid and didn't understand how the world works. I think most religions were founded this way; some guy couldn't explain something so he assumed it was a Deity. He then went around telling all these stupid people about his brilliant idea and boom he now has a following.

Now that we know about SCIENCE and SCIENTIFIC TRUTH, it's just stupid to believe that there was some sort of intelligent designer who created the world in 7 days or whatever. It's just ignorance. That's why I think education is so important, but that's another matter.

I'm all for interpreting religion as a metaphor for living your life, as in, treat people respectfully blah blah blah, but believing in a Deity is retarded nigger shit.

Sorry if this makes no sense I'm really high.
>>
if not the bible is wrong on this count so why would it be true on any other account. I will end with my favorite Bble Passage. Go among the little ones as god thy lord has commanded and kill all the children that are male. Kill all the female children old enough to have known a man by lying with him and take the rest as your slaves... Hooray for ethnic clensing
>>
>>565122582

>Scientific Truth

See>>565120906

and get back to me, if you can.
>>
>>565121808
True words
>>
>>565119267
> pro-tip: you can't
>>
>>565119267
ITT: I explain why most of you are idiots.

>>565119684
1) Benevolence is a subjective construct we base on evolutionary programming which boils down to cooperation. There is no such thing as good or evil.
2) You're basing your argument on one version of god.

>>565120370
This argument is based on the assumption of one God, a specific one, and the assumption that believing in that one God immediately grants passage to heaven. It falls apart either way.

>>565120894
Nobody knows anything until they find out. Thinking about things isn't something to be ashamed of.

>>565120906
The one that says yes. Truth is relative. Logical statements are not.

>>565121021
Occam's razor states that assumptions decrease the chance of finding valid explanation due to simple probability.

>>565121048
You're not an idiot.

>>565121132
Tripping balls and making no sense.
>>
>>565121808

What determines what is just and unjust?
>>
>>565120370
That ignores the following
>Your religion isn't the correct one (e.g. if Islam is correct Christians will go to hell)
>Your religion isn't the correct one, and by worshipping a different God/following a different religion you have pissed off the correct God more than you would have if you'd have simply stayed neutral on the matter
>God only lets atheists/agnostics into heaven, and hates those who follow any kind of organised religion
There are probably some other flaws in that statement, too. Besides, it doesn't actually provide any arguments that God exists, only why someone should follow a religion.
>>
>>565121808
Define "good"

I'm sure SJW's believe they're leading a good life
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>>565119267
Wait, isn't the point of philosophy to describe the world around us without resorting to faith and religion?
>>
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>>565119267
If god is perfect, why is his greatest creation imperfect?
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>>565122737

Thinking about this is actually dizzying.
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>>565121392
Why do you believe this?
>>
>>565123132

>Assuming perfection is an objective status
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>>565122276
except not. for example, let's talk about atomic forces.

it is theorized that atoms are held together by a collection of sub-atomic interactions. these interactions have been enumerated, the strength of their interactions determined, and the consequences of changing them has been discussed and simulated.

saying that god holds it together does not have the same demonstrable predictive power that scientific theory does, nor does it improve scientific theory by adding "oh but god too".

therefor we eliminate god from our explanation of subatomic forces.
>>
Okay so let's say God does/did exist, where did it come from? That's the real question for myself personally, how can something just start existing from nothing?
>>
FOR-GOD

Anselm's Proof
Okay, guys, this one is kinda stupid but I'll post it here anyway because it's interesting.
>You have the idea of a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
>Suppose that this thing--this greatest thing--only exists in the mind.
>Existence in reality is obviously greater than existence in the mind.
>If this being than which nothing greater can be conceived exists only in the mind, then it can be conceived to exist in reality as well.
>However, this means that something greater than this greatest thing can be conceived.
>Clearly, this is absurd.
>Therefore, the greatest possible thing exists in reality, and this is what we call God.
>>
>>565121746
I always thought god existed but the 10 commandments and the bible seem man made. I don't believe in jesus either. To be honest I don't really know I think I just like believing that there is something after death.
>>
>>565123312

>Heaven

The same idea can be said of the study of science as a whole and The Big Bang Theory.
>>
>>565119684
You do understand, despite this argument, Epicurus (the original progenitor of the argument) believed in God*. (Multiple gods to be exact, who were outside the limits of the world, and, beyond creating it/ having a part to do in its creation, simply didn't give a fuck.)
Also, does evil really exist?
Perhaps the things we perceive as evil really aren't evil because we have a skewered perception of the true* good in this world.
>>
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>>565123243
>Assuming perfect doesn't mean having all the desired and required elements for it's purpose.
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>>565122953
I'm a fan of epicureanism myself
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>>565123310
Right then, dark matter, black holes, white holes, the weight of a human soul. God did it. Your move.
>>
>>565123312
But then where did everything in existence come from? Was there just nothing and poof out of nowhere things started happening?
>>
If god was real what made god or where did he come from
>>
>>565123318
How were people ever taken in by this one?
>>
>>565122953
Doing what you genuinely believe is a good life, genuinely trying to help people, etc. In this way, yes, SJWs are leading a good life, they are genuinely trying to help people. SJWs are not bad people, just fucking retards, there's a difference.
>>
>>565122953
>>565122883
Stoics talk about just and good a lot in their writings, so fucked if I'm explaining all that. I can only simply say it's mostly about virtue, and what that word meant to them is different than what it means to us. Look up the stoics if you're really interested (Seneca, Marcus Aurelius etc.)

I read a really good book about them not long ago but I forget the name. If I can remember it I'll post it.
>>
>>565122883
Common human values not arbitrary religious morality.
>>
>>565120370
>nothing to lose
your years spend on nothing and expecting help from something that is not there.
>>
>>565123485
This is where Occam's razor is actually applicable.
>something that came from nothing made the universe
>and made rules to live by which are more easily explained by biological prerogatives
or
>the universe expanded from nothingness
>>
Why do people care about that subject so much anyways, its not like it can be proven anyhow so why raise a pointless debate that in the end would've achieved nothing?
>>
>>565123784
What is the purpose of God creating us, then? How do we know this we don't have all the desired and required elements for our purpose?
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>>565123897
excellent. please describe the event horizon of a black hole using your knowledge that god made it.

please make some useful predictions while you're at it.

i'm waiting.
>>
>>565120370
Even if this were true it's not even an argument for God's existence, just for believing he exists which isn't the same thing.
>>
>>565123318
This one makes sense if you are arguing a counter against a religious and none religious person debating if god or a greater being exists, this argument however does not show proof in a god, but in a human ideal of the perfect being
>>
If there is a god...
who created him?
why did [insert dictator name here] exist?
which god?
why so many religions?
omniscience forces determinism over free will, so why do you let people suffer.
With so many religions, and therefore many sets of rules, we do not know which ones to follow, so, if we are break them, why do we suffer in the next life for it?
>>
>>565121808
You beat me to it, Epikouros.
>>
Atheist fags:
How would you feel if you were God and you created everything and everyone all full of love then these ungrateful fucking creations said 'Fuck you God, you don't even exist'?
So stop being cunts and worship our almighty lord and savior Jesus Christ/God/Holy Ghost.
>>
>>565123485
Whoops totally didn't mean to sage but that's true as well. If I had to guess it's a mix of both but not in a "this was preplanned" way.

>>565123919
That's what I want to know because I just can't believe in this "man made" god/gods. How can we assign attributes some something we can't even begin to grasp?
>>
>>565124708
Just appear as a pillar of flame and tell them "I exist",
he did it in the bible.
>>
>>565124349
A) God doesn't exist.
B) Because the aim of the game of life is to survive no matter what.

I'd say there are a lot more creatures able to do it better than us.
>>
>>565124708
I wouldn't feel anything, because I'd be nonexistent.
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>>565123132
free will.

next.
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>>565124129
It was "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" by William B. Irvine. It has some practical applications of Stoicism for modern day life, but it also felt like he was almost trying to make a new religion out of it or something. Still a good read though.
>>
>>565124708
Strawman argument, correct? I'm still getting used to the types of logical fallacies.
>>
>>565122452
Pan-theism!
Pan-theism!
>yfw Hinduism struck a similar bell before his philosophy.
>yfw all interpretations of religion, god and nature are simply personal constructions of the godhead.
> All religions are driving at the same thing, and are manifestations of the same thing.
Source:
"The Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell
>>
Dont trust the post above, he is Mr Skeltal
>>
>>565124708
>worship our almighty lord and savior Jesus Christ/God/Holy Ghost.
>Jesus Christ/God/Holy Ghost
>Not Allah.
>>
Never understood why people think we have some greater purpose or how people believer we are more than just accidents the same as millions of other creatures and accidental beings that exist in this universe and the next. Face it faggots you are worthless accidents and when you die you will be gone and that will be the end of your pointless existence and in a few million years when the last of us dies out and there are none of us left another accident will take over somewhere else and it will all start again and all you will be is a remnant in the ground long gone and forgotten
>>
>>565123243

A god who makes a perfect creation is better than a god that makes an imperfect creation. The god that made the imperfect creation is therefore not perfect, because there would exist another god that outperformed it.
>>
>>565124561

On the subject of suffering, there are three forms of optimism that attempt to counter this.
>Absolutistic optimism: there is no evil in the world; evil is an illusion.
>Instrumentalistic optimism: there is evil but it always lead to some greater good; everything happens for a reason.
>Compensatory optimism: evil exists, and there are cases where it leads to no good, but when taken as a whole, the Universe simply automatically has more good than evil.
>>
>>565125117
Question; How can free will exist with an omniscient creator?
>>
>>565125215
>mfw Taoism is 'the way' forward
>>
>>565124708
I'd show myself to them that I exist, if my divine form was too much for them, I'd create a slightly less divine form that could still perform miracles.
>>565124978
I'm an atheist, just playing devil's advocate. How do we know that that's God's aim for the universe?
>>
Time, the path in which history progresses is littered with evidence against a so called all powerful and all knowing deity. Throughout time, our thoughts have progressed just as history and invention have. Thus, so has our idea of an all powerful. If our idea of a god has not remained as it was, then it is a flawed idea to think that the god we idealize is perfect. He changes just as we do. If that can be recognized, then he is simply the will of the people, a changing ideal welcomed into the minds of believers to give faith onto what they have little faith for. 'God' is not a god, but an idea. He exists, but is not all powerful, all knowing, or in any way a physical deity. Instead I purpose he is a driving ideal behind our philosophies.

~A Squishy Human
>>
>>565124708
>assuming you're not trolling
I'm not Atheistic, but I would assume that a God petty enough to be bothered by such a thing isn't a God at all.
Many humans have even surpassed that. I don't understand how you could believe 'God', an omniscient and omnipotent being beyond your wildest imaginations could stoop so low as to actually feel human emotion, or barring that lack the understanding that most of a person's life decisions are based on genetic predispositions and life experiences.

Please. Your concept of a god is pettier than 80's villains.
>>
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>>565125486
Self preservation of life, evolution made it so we can judge situations using our 5 senses and instinct to make decisions on whether it would be beneficial to us or not.
>>
>>565125486

Free will doesn't exist. If a burglar corners you in an alley, no matter how much you want to, you will never morph into giant rock monster and smash the alley wall to escape.

You can only do the things available to you at the time, and you will only act in accordance to your nature.
>>
>>565125486
let me rephrase that. let's say you have implanted a chip in somebody's brain without his knowledge and cognitive science has advanced enough to tell you what he's thinking. how would that knowledge be incompatible with his being free?
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>>565123897
>>565124380

thesists BTFO by occam's razor. soak it up, illiterati.

and just remember- as long as we're discussing from a philosophical perspective, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof always stands true.

rekt.
>>
>>565125748
Gods aim for the universe is to not exist?

Omniscient my ass.
>>
>>565126024
I am a skeleteon
>>
>>565125883
you're confusing free will with the power to enact your thoughts into reality.

next.
>>
>>565125858
Sorry, let me explain. If god exists, and he's omniscient, then how can free will exist? My point is that if he is omniscient, then he knows our actions before we make them. If he knows our actions before we make them, then our actions are predetermined. If our actions are predetermined, then it's not free will.
>>
>>565126240
Okay. I'm next I guess.
Define free will.
>>
>>565126150
2 posts away from a Liar's Paradox.
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>>565122781
>muh nihilism
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>>565126124
Bullshit man. I dont believe you
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>>565126452
That's what I was going for. Oh well.
>>
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>>565126384
The wrong notion that we control our actions instead of whatever chemicals are floating in our head at the time.
>>
>>565120370
>Pascal's Wager:
>Believing in God may produce two outcomes: one leads to a reward in Heaven, and the other leads to nothing.

so God simply has to check the quantum spin of an electron in a neuron in your brain (up = believed, down = didn't) to determine whether you go to heaven or hell?
>>
GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GODS GOD SGODS GODS GODS GODS
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>>565126531
the humor isn't lost on me
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>>565125815

Did everyone simply pass up my argument?
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>>565126372
this.
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>>565126240

You can't have free will if your will is bound by limitations.
>>
>>565126628
Define 'we'.

>>565126504
Nihilism is pretty much inarguable, but that's not what I was going for to be honest.
>>
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God only lives in a humans mind. Without humans there would be no god.
There is no way on earth to prove that God is an actual living, breathing being.

>Lets say there is only 1, religious man living in the entire world.
>He believes in god, goes to church, etc.
>One day he dies, there is nobody else to believe in god anymore.
>God ceases to exist

That is my point of view on "God"
>>
>>565126935

I thought it was interesting. Reminded me of Nietzsche a bit.
>>
>>565126935
Yeah, nobody wants to hear what a gelatinous biped has to say
>>
I don't know why those thread still exist, the idea of god include perfection and perfection include existence so you can't debate god existence... said so i'm not a religious freak nor i belive in some kind of humanoid god
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>>565127017
"We" as in every animal in existence you dildo.
>>
>>565126384
I'm leaning toward a Platonic model: the reason analyzes potential course of action and recommends to the will a specific course as good. Since will is oriented teleologically toward attaining personal good, will will follow the advice of reason.

The interesting corollary is that if you persist in a certain action (let's say, smoking) and claim that you understand smoking is bad for you, then you don't actually understand what you claim you do.

imokwiththis.jpg a la Hegel
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>>565127054
for me, it sounds like a mixture of analytical philosophy and nihilism, but i was just shitposting.

i'm at your side. your arguments are quite valid
>>
>>565127120

All humans are squishy by comparison. What does that make you, a quadruped lizard?
>>
>>565127020
That's not philosophy.
>>
>>565126704
no you have to listen to Him as well

and act upon His want for you, obey your conscience which comes from the holy spirit sometimes our wants get in the way though and that is why we pray to seek His clarification
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>>565126746
HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN HAIL SATAN
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>>565119267

You should be old enough to hear this by now if you're posting here, it was always your parents, they made it up and lied to you, that had a big group in on it all over too. Just like Santa
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>>565127120

It's like what you said was almost a reference to I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.
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>>565127020
So, god is actually a parasite. I like that.
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>>565127020
god is the mind, and beyond. all creation has god as its basis. he is the undifferentiated substrate beneath all reality. you're right that the problem is in man's mind- he thinks he actually exists, separate from the rest of reality. destroy the ego, realize God.
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>>565126991
you're confusing free will with omnipotence. i can determine i want to save a child from drowning even if from a purely physicalist description i can't (the distance is too big, i can't swim fast enough, etc.)
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>>565127371
sorry wrong post, i meant this one: >>565127017
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>>565121113
I feel like I know this person.
>>
If you think gods exist you LITERALLY need to be killed. It's as stupid as thinking ghosts, souls and free will exist.
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>>565127508

Satan Hail seems like such an awful form of precipitation.
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>>565126935
Do you pay attention to how you breathe? You can, but your body does it subconsciously. Can you explain how it's done?
Can you explain how you walk without thinking about each step?
That is God
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Does anyone think it matters to the boy in medically induced coma that Justice was trying to be done?

The fact it is never right to harm another is the proof you ask for when debating the existence of God. It is never right, it maybe expedient but never right. This is a fact and anyone who disagree with this fact gives license for another to harm themselves in the administration of Justice. Because God has condoned harming another for the administration of his Justice proves he does not exist.
>>
>>565125815

Just because the conception of an image changes over time does not mean it is a man-made idea, nor is it strong proof for that position either.

>>He changes just as we do.
One could argue that our understanding of He changes as we change, but he never actually changes. Our ideas are flawed, but he is not. Our conception of him is not perfect, but he is perfect.
>>
>>565119267
It's just an idiotic idea with no ground to stand on. If we were to send a copy of Harry Potter back in time and given it to the right person we would have the same result. Religion is manufactured by man as a form of control.

It's working.
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THIS THREAD IS HERESY!

THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND!
>>
Not technically on religion itself but i think it fits here.

We spend all this time arguing and even dying over what others believe.

The concern of this day and age may be better directed away from where we as a race came from, and more towards were we are going.
>>
>>565127297
What defines every animal in existence?
>hint, it has to do with what you said in the first place

>>565127329
What do you mean with 'personal good'?
>>
>>565127734
It's as stupid as thinking YOU exist.
>>
if God isnt real, why would random atoms from unexceptional chemical reactions, that came from nothing, join to create my brain which tells me that God is real?

if God isnt real, then i wouldnt believe in God

my brain of accidental chemical reactions wouldn't create the belief unless it was divinely inspired in it
>>
>>565127374
They call me lazer lizard

>>565127529
Not taking credit for knowing some obscure sci-fi book nobodies heard of
>>
>>565127734
god is a metaphysical concept, the question of his existence is meaningless
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>>565128140

Well hell, it's not really that obscure.
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>>565127771

If I believe in a God who simply established order in the universe (i.e created the universe and its processes), then

how does your argument work?

Who can argue what is right in regards to violence? Is it never right to simply hurt another of the same species? What about animals? Plants? Are lions "wrong" when they kill for substance or to rise as leader of a specific territory?
>>
>>565128064

When you were a little kid, you may have believed that Santa was real, and that monsters were under your bed. What does that tell you?
>>
>>565122781
>>565122781
This person knows how to have a conversation.
>>
>>565127771
>the fact it is never right to harm another
that's your opinion

Also, you're assuming human beings have no free will. What we assume is wrong could be considered right since we're only humans. A human being cannot understand what a God knows. At least, this is just a different perspective.
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>>565127992
>What defines every animal in existence.

You're a unique kind of retarded aren't you?
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>>565127771
>>
All of you are bots and I am living in a simulation and the only god of mine is the one who created that sim. None of you can prove me wrong.
>>
>>565127805
>twirls fedora
if you actually believe that religion didn't develop because it addresses existential concerns and gives answers about the self and the universe, as well as providing a cultural institution that strengthened early human communities, then you're the idiot. has it been misused to control people? of course. but reducing it to just this role is simplistic.
>>
God is a dmt trip gleep gloop glorp
>>
>>565127771
no He does not condone of harming others but it is possible within the boundaries of the universe.

we are not His dolls we are His beloved creation
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>>565128470

Well, it's reasonable to assume that "existing" is something every animal does. Therefore, it is a part of its essence.
>>
>>565128470
I don't think you understand why I'm asking you things. It's not that I don't know. I just want you to finish your train of thought.
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>>565128535
Watch the truman show
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>>565128343
that they're fictional, and also are never described in metaphysical terms or as abstract concepts.
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>>565128535
Solipsism, bro. I was into that level of stuff Freshman year of high school. Now I'm in college, bitch. We're the same person because we are both aspects of the same simulation amothafuck yeah smoke weed every day
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"If this post ends with a 7 god exists"
- Thomas Aquinas
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>>565127992
Personal good boils down to pleasure.
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>>565128535
But you can't prove that's right either so..
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>>565128758

So... bullshit?
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>>565120370
Whattabout the other religions?
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>>565128343
that not all ideas are true and that what some people say/do/think has no bearing on existence what so ever

so just bc some dont believe in God does ot mean that he doesnt exist

I believe in genuine truth in the universe and God is that ultimate truth
>>
>>565128951
if that's how you view metaphysics and existential questions, sure
>>
>>565120370
That's 50% on one out of thousands of gods we've made up. So that's a 1 in 20000 chance that you're correct.
>>
>>565119267
And, OP, I don't know the answer to this shit. I just keep learning about it.
>>
>>565121808
This is exactly how I live my life. I don't particularly believe in a God (give me undeniable proof and I'm totally open), but I just try to not be a terrible human being and try to treat others well. I figure if there is a God, he will still let me into Heaven because I lived my life in a positive light.
>>
>>565129008

So you are basically taking the word "God" and applying it to a more broad concept?
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>>565128315

Is your God alive today? Your believe is only borrowed from another's, unless you have first hand knowledge?.
>>
One of my issues, specfiically in regards to the Christian-judeo version of God has to do with this idea of free-will and sin.

Why is it that we do not hold God accountable for all sin? As we hold him accountable for all good? Think about it for a second.

A simplified abstraction, if you are the programmer of a universe. You can create the rules and functions that will determine how your world works. If you create a function , i.e "sin" as a possibility, then why don't you share responsibility in its use? Free will has nothing to do with this, free will implies that God has almost an obligations to fufill some outer-universal requirement to introduce this function of sin, as if there is a God beyond God.
>>
>>565128910
Immediate, or maximization of total possible pleasure? If so, how do you quantify pleasure?
>>
>>565128926
Yeap, exactly as it is with god. People always tend to overthink and get stuck in their delusions sadly.
>>
>>565129060

But it is just all a bit of hokey bullshit, isn't it? The whole metaphysics thing is basically something that really can't even be discussed, because it is ultimately meaningless.
>>
>>565128990
Still a gamble, but one can argue it's better than nothing. When people say you waste time when believing in a religion, it is subjective. It doesn't require any sort of commitment, unless the religion demands it, but even then there is some grey areas or personal beliefs within the religion. It doesn't demand time to be wasted, only certain behaviors throughout your daily life.
>>
>>565127947
This. I don't think it should be like that when just talking about it is fun. It gets your mind flowing and really makes you think of other aspects of life. But you are right as humans we really need to shift gears a bit.
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>>565128423
it is also yours. If it is not then you are giving license to anyone to harm yourself for what ever reason they seem fit in the administration of their Justice.

Or do you reserve the right from harm for yourself?
>>
>>565129321
Everyone has a different scale of assessing the importance of various types of pleasure (eating, watching a movie, smoking a joint, etc.) The answer to this question will vary from person to person.
>>
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>>565128640

You are saying God does not condone the harming of others?

What of which burning?
>>
>>565128064
Then what is divine power? if that's real then wouldn't that be an elemental reaction or something? If it exists in the universe we as humans should be able to harness it.
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>>565129262
Probably because free-will = sin. Human beings are created to be imperfect, allowing free-will allows sin. What's worse, not allowing human beings to have free-will or granting them free-will only for sin to be inevitable.

Sin can also just be another name that ties into the function of free-will. Sin doesn't really exist, but it's given a name to stop people from harming each other.
>>
Does anyone here believe in the possiblity that there is not even such a thing as right or wrong? That they are just anthropomorphic beliefs based on the circumstances we live. (Many right and wrongs could be tied to things like survival)
>>
http://www.esotericarchives.com/proclus/metaelem.htm


http://www.scribd.com/doc/122938891/PROCLUS-commentary-on-Platos-PARMENIDES

https://archive.org/details/ProclusOnTheTheologyOfPlato-ElectronicEdition

http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/
>>
>>565130176

Again, that doesn't seperate from my original argument. Even if sin was only a reflection of free-will, whatever "free-will" must exist as a cause of God, or otherwise have an extensive power beyond God. If it resulted as a cause from God, then God still shares responsibility. And God shares responsibility (if not all) in all forms of imperfect free-will, just as he does when we attribute good to him.
>>
>>565119267
the brain cannot handle not knowing or not having an explanation for something as simple as our existence so people believe a man in the sky created the heavens and earth so they have sunbathing to believe in instead of nothing.

> religion: fear of the unknown
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>>565128720
Ok, every single thing you have ever thought, done, will think, and will do is based on a certain mixture of chemicals released in the brain when faced with any and all situations.

These chemicals will trigger subconscious memories, experiences and instinct, and your brain will react accordingly to this and will send messages to your conscious mind, which heavily if not completely dictate what action you will perform in order to best benefit the situation.

What the benefit is, and how you will do it is based on whatever your subconscious deems best for its survival.

In case you're going to argue why everyone isn't selfish and greedy as fuck, it's because the basic instinct I mentioned before has "hard wired" your brain into being generous and caring because all animals depend on other members of it's species and members of other species for survival.

Your conscious mind is a medium between your surroundings and your subconscious, nothing more, nothing less.

Specific enough?
>>
>>565129262
One this note If God has absolute power why would he send his son to die to relieve his creations of something he created when he could just absolve sin himself? I couldn't ever believe in something that preaches that and its one of the many reasons why man made gods are just illogical.
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>>565119267
>This entire thread
>>
WHAT IF God exists, but simply choose to not interfere in our world? Or just interferes in ways we can't be sure he actually did something?
>>
>>565130621
have fun explaining id ego and super ego to these tarts
>>
>>565131030
I think of this sometimes.

My rationale against the argument is that you cannot hold it as a belief, however. Simply because we are applying the term God in substitute for "That which created the universe", but then we imply properties about God (Maybe conscience, capable of thought) rather than leaving it open to other possibilities such as God simply being a process.
>>
>>565130621
this explanation is so riddled with holes that i wonder why you included the picture of somebody who supposedly wants you to keep an open mind and question everything.

if all actions are deterministically driven by self-preservation why do people sacrifice themselves for others? shouldn't there be some kind of grand reset button in their brain that stops them from dying for other?

>inb4 moving the target to the survival of your genes; examples can be easily produced where that can't happen but the individual stills sacrifices himself

>inb4 the survival of the species; more examples can be produced where the survival of the species was not at risk.
>>
>>565130569
God does share (if not most) the responsibility. It is something a God must bear when creating any sort of free life.

I don't know if Christianity views that Jesus is paying for that responsibility. It's never really explained.
>>
>>565120370
ANTI GOD

Debunking Pascal's Wager
>Believing in the wrong god will lead to an eternity in hell
>There are thousands of "gods" that all have different characteristics
>Your chances of Hell are extreme, no matter which god you believe in
>Believing in no god may lead to one of the thousands of Hells, but if you don't believe in those hells, you will not live your life based on possibilities, rather than finding the truth for yourself
>>
>>565131549
>Sacrifice of yourself can lead to the survival of your species, or more often, your gene line.
>>
>>565131205
early Freudian analysis derives super id from the functioning of the id in a cultural context. the focus is not on survival but release of tension (primary model is sexual).

late Freudian analysis postulates a drive to die or cease to exist.

in both models the functioning of the id and the derivation of the super id is not grounded in an evolutionary approach to mental phenomena.
>>
>>565132136
>you will not live your life based on possibilities, rather than finding the truth for yourself
That's a possibility as well.
If it's not, then you can kill yourself and come back a few days later and tell me what's right or wrong.
>>
>>565132361
can or cannot. there are examples where people choose to sacrifice themselves because they love someone (the species is not at risk and the individual is not in a position to procreate - think infertile individuals).
>>
>>565128736
the truman show is satanic/gnostic propaganda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7NfJhS3_S0

>>565129254

yes exactly the word "God" unfortunately has been distorted from what I believe His original intent for that word was.

like the game telephone kids play(a message starts with somebody and by the time the last person hears the message it is different than the original)

we are so far into mankind that His original intent for us has been distorted or outright denied by many

I believe there is a "higher/broader/more encompassing/more honest" idea than anyone/ all of humankind combined could comprehend/sustain and that is/belongs to God

in another way, I have experienced that I am not the source of ideas. none of us actually we only facilitate certain ideas into physical reality.

the way you look at a child and to an extent can see what they think/feel bc they have a smaller faculty than yourself is the same as others could say the same about you and I and so on so forth with higher faculties. if we can look at each other and know that there is a higher faculty among us than where did that higher faculty come in the first place? it had to be created or always exist in order for it to be recognized in varying degrees.

ive also had undeniable encounters with God/highest power that saved me from harm
>>
>>565132730
But it offers a path of which such behavior could have evolved. And later developed into modern behavior
>>
>>565132730
Someone would argue that a "family function" serves at an almost sub conscience level. That although the individual who sacraficed themselves for the love one may not actually be of blood or consciencly sacraficing themselves with the purpose of allowing the person to reproduce, at a subconscience level the individual has attributed a level of kinship or family to the person they are sacraficing themselves for.

For some people, this could apply to people as a whole, or people and other species, or people and plants.
Etc.
>>
>>565132598
Worded it badly, sorry I'm a little drunk

My point was you if you look at the chances of hell no matter which POV you take, compared to the rest of the world, your chances of hell are almost certain
>>
>>565131549
Survival of the species takes priority over survival of the subject.

The aim of the game is to carry on the species, by any means necessary.

>>565132730
Chemicals bro, the more you like something (e.g. loved ones) the more dopamine is released in the brain, which trigger protective instincts.
>>
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Then what is described with the reference of "God" would not be the Absolute as that is assigning a particular nature to "God" and reduction to only those attributes (that are expressed as a reflection of one's state of being) and detracting from the All-ness that is and of "God".

"interfere...our world"

Which is to say that "God" and/or "our world" is somehow isolated and disconnected from each other rather than "our world" or THE world and the varying degrees of aligned consciousness of those within and a part of it that the very structure is a part of the Infinite. Also,not to mention the so called "gods" being living principles and complete within themselves,but still are a "part" in the universe. And "God"(as the Absolute and most high) being the very epitome of such a title and beyond.
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>>565121021


the odds of the universe existing as it does today by a big bang or something is the same odds of marking one single grain of sand in the Sahara desert and telling a blind man to find that one grain of sand, near non-existent chance
>>
>>565130796
well Jesus is God in the flesh,

He came into the flesh and died so that He fulfilled His own commandments by living a perfect life. by doing so He took our rightful place of seperation. Hell is punishment but not out of spite but bc God is so holy sinners can not be with Him on by their own power, so God sacrificed Himself out of love and by believeing and trusting that He would do that,bc He loves us so much, we have the possibility of eternal life

and if you believe that you repent, go through sanctification and act as a disciple of Jesus Christ
>>
>>565122781
no your the idiot in this thread, you're assuming that everything is fucking random and then putting the word subjective as a way to hide your mental retardation..

Subjective doesnt = random you dumb fuck and if you assume that right and wrong are based upon this human subject that has no basis for his actions then you are the cancer killing /b/. You might not agree with the basis that a person has for their actions but you must understand that everything is not entirely random just because you disagree with what is going on . For example just because a man rapes a child doesnt mean the child's experience was random. God damn there was a reason behind it and it might not be based upon a hindu universal karma system but there was still a reason it happened. You might not like why it happened but thats your problem and not mine.
>>
>>565130621
Great, I completely agree. Your definition of free will is;
>The wrong notion that we control our actions instead of whatever chemicals are floating in our head at the time.
Our brains are made up of chemical bonds which form neurons, etc (I'm sure you're smart enough for me to skip the biology of it all). The bottom line is this; We are chemicals. Determinism in the face of free will assumes our inability to control the choices we make due to physical forces, when in fact those same physical forces form who we are. It's not causation, it's a parallel. Saying "you don't have free will because your mind is bound to physical principles" is like saying 2+2 is not 4 because 4 is a single digit. Of course it's not the same thing. But that's only because it's a representation.
>>
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>>565121021
As propagated by a Catholic priest.
>>
>>565133543
The odds of the Universe existing exactly as it does today are 100%, because it does.
>>
>>565133543
>Unless the multiverse theory is correct

That means that life as we know it CAN exist ONLY because the universe, which had a random chance at all cosmological constants, happened to be the one that allowed life to form in the first place.

This can also be applied on a smaller scale, that the earth is not designed for humans, but rather we are designed for it because natural selection, and later artificial selection, made us like this.
>>
>>565132910
this is either vacuous or wrong.

if it means at one point such behavior was useful to one individual in the history of the species, then the evolutionary theory ceases to be an empirically-falsifiable theory because for any potential counterexample you can claim at one point that type of behavior was useful to one specific individuals.

second it flies in the face of standard theoretical assumptions (behavior conditioning has to be long-term, intensive in order to create a functional disposition in all members of the species). it also operates with species as wholes as a theoretical postulate separate from individuals. this is wrong. species behavior is derived from individual behavior in evolutionary theory.
>>
>>565133302
Not all religions have hell. Some religion's hell is based on morals.
Either way, you're right, you might be going to hell anyways, so even if the chance is slim, some people take it. And the middle-ground religions is more forgiving. Don't even know how to account for the possibilities with so many variables to consider.
>>
>>565119267
Pro God:
>The universe COULD NOT have come from nothing.
>Everyone has a built-in sense of morality whether or not they follow it.
>Everyone is conscious. How could that possibly have arisen in a deterministic/naturalistic system such as abiogenesis?
>>
>>565133892
I applaud your effort, but I'm way too tired to get into a meta trolls-trolling-trolls-trolling-trolls skit.
>>
>>565133462
why are protective instincts not overridden by the survival instinct? again, we're talking about acts of sacrifice made for an individual you are not related to.

survival of the species exists only in hollywood. evolutionary biology starts from the individual and ends with the individual (group behavior is explained only insofar as it benefits the individual).
>>
>>565134219
Yes that is true, but a lot do. The statistics are almost the same.

>>565134334
If the universe is so complex that it needs a creator than what created god, an even more complex being?
>It's an uncaused cause
Then why can't the universe?
>>
>>565129823

i think those were incidents of people who took it upon themselves to do what they wanted(revenge)

there has been times where God commanded His followers to get rid of wicked people(cannibals and such)

but that was the old law I dont think He still does that bc we are under the new law. (accept that Jesus died for us so that we can be with him bc if He hadnt we would have to be eligible by our ritual works which is impossible, ie superman is impossible,)

He gives us freedom, some of use that for things that are against Him and our own kind, but that is not His intent for us. He gave us freedom within the laws of physics to love and honor Him as we please which goes along with following your conscience/soul

not just harm because we have free time
>>
>>565122582
They were so stupid they built pyramids, founded continental empires, invented algebra, geometry, and trigonometry, and figured out how to make gun powder and steel?

Sure sure, everyone is stupid but you, right?
>>
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>>565119267
>tl;dr informational law proves there is a "God" since information cannot be generated by matter alone. (Matter is information)

>hurr durr it's all an illusion maaaan

What is projecting the illusion, eventually an illusion must be interpreted, be it right or wrong.
>Interpreted = information

Bye, proved there is a God. Is God a man in the sky? No.
>>
Pyramids
>>
>>565134815
>Because of the development of the super ego

Biological evolution is not evolution of an individual, it's the evolution of an entire population
>>
>>565120370
>at worst there is nothing to lose
>simply believing in god, and not living a life of restraint and humility, is what gets you into heaven
>this is what protestants actually believe
>>
Wow. All the god fags and all the logical fallacies. Grow up. There is nothing that would point to the existence of a god.
>>
>>565130569
thats why He died on a cross for us, Bc He loves us and without that act we would all be doomed to tfailing at being supermen. we arent under mosiac law anymore.

we are under the His law of accepting what He did/does for us and genuinely honoring and loving Him which coincides with honoring and loving yourself and others
>>
>>565134987
God is information too then, just not matter. Why can there be an infinite source of energy that does not need explanation?
>>
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>>565133979
That was the shittiest argument I've ever heard.

>We are basically chemicals, so chemicals can't influence us.
>It's like saying 2+2 isn't 4.

Your mind IS bound by physics. It's a principle of existence in this universe.

Truth be told, I had no fucking idea what you were trying to say about causations and parallels.
>>
>>565134958

>missing the point
>getting this buttblasted
>>
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>>565135558
Just consider this
>>
>>565133505
your assuming that your or humankinds knowledge is the end all be all truth

we may have parts but God is the ultimate truth and we can only ascertain some
>>
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>>565135560
It doesn't need an explanation. But it can be.
Life has no meaning, that doesn't make it meaningless.

Goodnight.
>>
Under the judeo christian views god has infinite power. If so can't he create an unmovable rock? And if he made it, could he move it? God I love philosophy.
>>
>>565135151
this is an incoherent mesh of evolutionary biology and psychoanalysis, probably based on the idea that the selfish drive to self-preservation is somehow related to unconscious drives in a psychoanalytic theory.

the development of the super ego can only occur in an existing cultural context and is at odds with evolutionary explanations. this is also the reason why virtually all standard psychoanalytical theories reject evolutionism as a one-size-fits-all theory.
>>
>>565136064
why doesn't it need explanation?
And that reasoning can be applied to the universe itself without god.
>>
>>565120536
now i will explain why these threads always end in fail /cancer killing /b/.

see these guys always argue 1 of these 2 arguments rarely both because they contradict each other. 1. Everything is subjective and thus random because it cant be objective otherwise they would say everything is objective. 2. Evolution bitches.

well see a smarter more competent person could point out that whats objective could indeed be subjective as well but no im not even going to go there because most of the people here dont even understand basic grammar rather they just know how to use the language, they dont know the purpose behind the grammar they use. Or they know the how and not the why behind it.

And in regards to evolution bitches, well only a retard would say that the theory isnt true but what i have a problem with is using any scientific theory and then basing my morality behind it and then making broad claims about it. Ex: I wouldnt say that because atoms exist that I should start the church of atom and start dancing and worshipping it. And similarly i wouldnt sacrifice my children for the survival of the species or that sort of bullshit. I mean yeah on a broad scale the theory of descent with gradual modification by means of natural selection is a very useful tool to explain stuff with but on a narrow scale like a day to day basis not so much unless we're talking about bacteria multipying and shit like that.

So yeah thats why everyone here is a retard and should be treated as such. but if you dont believe me just take my argument and divide it by zero and that should fix everything.
>>
>>565120370
Also if this is the case, have fun sifting through hundreds of other religions.
>>
>>565135852
Just consider being a protestant for life you fail fag. Go back and take those jesus cookies and shove them up your arse and call the doctor because we just found the CANCER KILLING /B/!
>>
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Straw men. Straw men everywhere. Learn what the fuck atheism is. And learn what the fuck evolution is. If any of these things you guys are bringing up actually proved the existence of a god (not just the one you happened to be born into believing in), it would be a huge deal and someone would win a Nobel prize (at least) for proving a god's existence. Let go of your ancient fairy tales that have no basis in reality whatsoever.
>>
>>565136237
Because you can live in the world without explaining it.

You can use a car without knowing how it works can you not?
>>
>>565135852

I understand what you mean, your are questioning truths right?

well its not just ask Jesus and your good to go and do whatever, its more like ask for forgiveness, and then following God and grow closer to Him and act as He did. (paraphrasing) God said ..but what have you done with my son?

more over ive had personal experiences where I prayed to God for help and things beyond humans control happened
>>
>>565136179
The concept that the mind evolved from evolutionary biology is not that difficult to see.
Many "Morals" are just behaviors.
Rape is bad because it allows the possible passing of inferior genes when the woman does not want that one's genes past.
Murder is bad because it dwindles the population of the species, thus making the species prone to extinction.

>>565136894
But those things CAN be explained. Unlike god
>>
Personal experiences don't prove shit. Every person of every faith has experiences that they say "proves" their god exists. What makes your experience real and people who believe in other gods experiences fake?
>>
>>565130621
but the sad thing behind all of this is that no one is disagreeing with your premise that chemical reactions regulate brain activity and thus have an influence and are required for any mind to exist at all. Rather we are disagreeing with your notion that you can simplify everything down to quarks and then predict what John will buy at the mall tomorrow by using quantum mechanics on his brain.

While it is true that chemistry works and all that shit, psychology became a scientific discipline apart from chemistry because you dont need to fully understand chemistry to understand aspects of the mind or personality for that matter. But you do need to know chemistry to understand chemical imbalances that may lead to mental disorders and that stuff.

but in no way can you say god doesnt exist because of a principal based on classical mechanics. And yes you are argueing from an 1700-1800 strict determinism physics perspective because if you were argueing from a quantum mechanics perspective then you would say you cant prove or disprove God's existence because we dont fully understand the universe enough. hell there is a lot we dont know about physics but that doesnt mean that we know nothing but at the same time it doesnt mean we know that god doesnt exist. And by the way your making my posts overly long, if you just stuck to one subject material like theology as opposed to bounce around the sciences like your fatass mom when she landed on target and killed all the innocent folk in there then it would be easier for me to debate with you about God's existence.

But anyway I don't expect someone of your caliber to even know what a thomas aquinas is or what an actual axiom is. Rather your like science bitches and then thats your argument. Lol no substance no depth, no you sir are the real cancer killng /b/ and not these other faggots. You BIG OL FAG
>>
>>565136482
Protestant may not eat the flesh, but they still pray to Jesus a lot instead of God. Anyway you look at it, nothing will answer everything perfectly and we don't know what we don't know. You sir can shove Jesus straight up your ass for all I care.
>>
God is your morality, it has no spectrum, no scale, god is what you make it.
God is the love you have for yourself and what you besbow on others.
God is the hate for yourself and what you besbow on others.
Freedom to chosse what you think is right and not to be bound by laws that others make, for you are a free person that should only be bounded by what you belive in.
Life is what you give and take.

Think not of others, the earth or scociety think of what you love, cherish and improves you.

It is all indifrent.
>>
>>565137557
Just because you cannot explain God at this time, or in the future, doesn't mean "God" doesn't have an explanation.
>>
>>565136593
your right imaginary shit is just wrong to talk about because if its out of sight then its out of mind right? Well if thats the case then by all means dont talk about zero because it doesnt exist, nothing is not a tangible or perceivable thing therefore its not real and dont talk about i or i squared which is negative one for that matter because negative numbers are not real in nature. You cant have anything beyond the absence of a quantity and even then your negative numbers are not real numbers thus they're imaginary. So you cant talk about physics or engineering for that matter, so by all means dont ask any engineer whatsoever to build your bridge because it involves imaginary numbers to build. And dont ask for all the other shit engineers usually do because you sir are A WASTE OF TIME to talk to.
>>
>>565137649
you can because every explanation that "requires" god to explain in physics can be replaced with "the universe". Thus what many think of as "god" is intact the universe

>>565137937
But thats the thing about god. There is no way you CAN explain him. No way in the present or ever.
>>
>>565137752
lol your protestant is showing you might want to call a doctor and ask to be cut off from /b/ because you sir are indeed the cancer killing /b/, i know this for a fact.
>>
>>
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>>565138385
You are confused.

Why do you think you know the ultimate truth about "God"?

You're a waste of my time and a pleb if you have absolutes like "WE CANNOT KNOW". Go away.
>>
>>565138643
I don't know the ultimate truth about god because he doesn't fucking exist. At least not the Abrahamic god
>>
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>>565138867
If you take any of the books literally, you're definitely a waste. Read more.
>>
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Oh, wow. I totally forgot about this thread. I just found a doujinshi where Nausicaa gets impregnated by bugs.
>>
>>565138643
>Doesn't counter any arguments
>You are confused
>Go away

>>565139046
Why would an all powerful being make his word in such a terrible form.
>>
>>565139046
But why so much confusion? Why would God do this? Making someones life an unbearable struggle between truths knowing they will never get answer in their lifetimes. What is the point of being such a hidden edgy faggot and staying hidden? Why not just create us with knowing? It would make his job a hell of a lot easier if all he wants is for people to worship him.
>>
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>>565137649
That entire post just tells me you're a nigger who didn't pay attention to the fact that I was merely explaining the notion of "free will" and not the existence of God directly, has no idea what the fuck chemical neurobiology is, nor quantum mechanics that you tried to use as an argument,, to berate me with shitty insults and use terms and names you think I don't know.

This is by far the shittiest post in the history of posts.

Congratulations, shit for brains.
>>
>>565139250
>Implying God is a man in the sky.
>Implying people didn't write the books.
>Implying the book isn't encoded.

Sigh.

I am not countering your arguments because you're way too off and that does not interest me on a personal level.

But since you're curious, check out
>"Vortex Based Math"

Man was born into SIN. SIN in science = time.

Man was born into time. Make sense now? Ok. Now continue to study.
>>
>>565138385
no see in theology as in any other academic discipline you study you must first define your terms. Now we should focus on the system by which we derive/define our terms as opposed to focusing on the term itself otherwise we will never understand how to arrive at that term.

Language is the system by which we arrive at the term. Now since we're dealing with theology we have to discuss metaphysics but not the bullshit ghost in your closet metaphysics that we often equate with theology but rather the fundamentals of metaphysics because it is the fundamental concepts of metaphysics that explain how the universe works. I think using the law of identity correctly would fix a lot of things but you kow it would take volumes of books to explain all the logical fallacies you could fall into just by misusing the law of identity. And the laws themselves can be quite equivocal in some circumstances but anyway if you want to disprove or prove in the existence of an all powerful being the governs the universe and that possesses a personality or a personhood which is what i normally think of when we speak about gods and god then it is best that we start with speaking about metaphysics and the fundamentals of it otherwise you and i will be so lost.

And no its not that simple, you cant just say atoms physics bitches and then be done and you cant go on about chemical reactions in our brains because monotheists can believe in the scientific method and all that stuff and still believe in monotheism. You sir are just begging me to write a shit load as if you were my philosophy professor or something, fuck you and your /b/ killing cancerous ways!
>>
>>565139820
>god is length width height and depth
>>
>>565139832
fuck you dont even talk about free will, what the fuck does that have to do with God or any of that shit. You random ass cracker!
>>
If there is a god, then where did he come from? If he was himself created by a still greater being, then he is not god. If he always was, why not save a step and say that the universe always was, theres no need for a creator.
>>
>>565140450
>>565130621
>>565128720
>>565128470
>>565127992
>>565127297
>>565127017
>>565126628
>>565126384

Here's the entire fucking conversation about free will you so ignorantly ignored and rudely crammed your fat ass into.

Enjoy, you retard.
>>
>>565119267
>>
>>565139862
>Implying sin is time
If i were god i'd make the bible and my other holy books have, you know, facts about the nature of the universe not encoded in metaphor and interpretation

I also don't think you know what science is. Science is just the process in which we learn things.

>>565140007
Dude I'm drunk. Explain it in non-superfucking philosopher words.

But at your last paragraph, the mind can be explained with chemical and atomic reactions. We just did it. A few scrolls. up. And monotheism, at least Abrahamic Monotheism, does in fact contradict the scientific method by making a claim and looking for the facts that support it and IGNORING the ones that contradict or debunk it
>>
>>565140369
Exactly. What is the cost of making your creation at the same level of thinking as you? You can destroy them at anytime. But who knows, that nigga may have went through process of trial and error of the last 10^100000000 years and decided this was the best route. I guess at the end of the day we can only hope our great great great grandchildren will get the answers we hope for.
>>
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>>565127992
>What defines every animal in existence?

>Height, width, depth, length.
>>
>>565141283
Thats just the space. Matter also does
>>
>>565125484
I see that the thesis of your argument is that suffering exists for some better reason. I will counter that by invoking Omnipotence, which states that god can eliminate all pain, evil and suffering, and in fact, most religions state that he will do so for some at the end. Being omnipotent god should have already done so, but he didn't.
>>
>>565122737
this goes back to the old "I could be a brain in a vat" argument. The truth is that "what if's" don't matter. It serves no purpose to wonder if we're even real or not. "I think, therefore I am." point being, this is the reality you inhabit, test, ponder, experience, etc.
>>
>>565141563
"Just the space."

>Implying there is such a thing as empty space.

Protip, there isn't.

What we call "empty space" is information canceling itself out, thus it looks like nothing is there.

>Nassim Haramein, google him.
>>
>>565141221
no monotheism doesnt make a claim and then look for facts to support it like a criminal defense attorney defending his client in a court of law. But anyway why the hell are we talking about theology if your drunk. You should be sober otherwise things will make even less since. You know my girlfriend got drunk while playing a video game once and he was quite hilarious to watch, she's so cute and funny when she's drunk hehehe.

>>565141283
your obviously incorrect and if you divided that argument by zero then you would arrive at 42 which is tangent to the line we are talking about here.
>>
>>565141901
>Nothing else to do.
>>
>>565141901
No.
>>
>>565141894
length width and height are just representative of empty space
>>
>>565142650
lies
lengthxwidthxheight=area of a rectangle which is not empty space ediot!
>>
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>>565141901
I am utterly convinced that this guy is just a shitposter, every reply he's given is either a long ass unnecessary comparison, or complete bollocks.
>>
>>565142650
No, man, no.

I'm out. Lost patience for stupidity. Sorry man, but damn? Really? I just told you there is no such thing as empty space and gave you enough information about it to confirm it for yourself.

>If there is no empty space, then my definition is correct. Use your thinking cap.
>>
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God is dead!
>>
>>565142793
>>565142938

>implying not in euclidean geometry length, width, and height are not just a grid, with nothing really in it, who's axles extend in every direction forever.
Lrn to fucking grid
>>
>>565142853
no sir you are mistaken, you in fact are the cancer killing /b/. You can't write well thought out elaborate paragraphs because you lack the mental capacities to do so. Go back to hello kitty little girl!
>>
>>565143102
I said depth too.

>Get out.

>No such thing as empty space.
>>
>>565143310
lol he's drunk
>>
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>>565143126
Just once, will you reply to a post with an answer instead of being euphoric or calling people cancer.

Is it just too much to ask?

It's like talking to a child with a dictionary.
>>
>>565143310
>Implying depth is not just another word for one of the dimensions

Such thing as empty space in euclidean geometry dumb ass nigger
>>
Does the creator of the Universe really have to be benevolent? Does He really have to be bounded by the laws of humanity in order to be worshiped? As a Christian, I believe God has the right/privilege to do whatever the fuck he wants whenever he pleases. All these Atheists always bringing up how he kills a lot of people in the Bible. So, what? If he created life as we know it, why does he have to be a "goodie-goodie" just to fit your wants?
>>565143051
>>
>>565143549
no fuck you and quit killing /b/.

lol i quit taking this thread seriously a while ago and for good reason.
>>
>>565143754
New thread?

New thread....
>>
>>565143627
>>565143627
>>565143627
>>565143627
You are hopeless. Learn to vortex based math.

I'm out.
>>
>>565143627
but space is three dimensional! And we all know euclidean goemotry is 2 D
>>
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>>565143896
The epitome of retardation.
>>
>>565143965
dont give up on us teacher
>>
>>565143908
post thread link here pl0x
>>
If god is real then how come this is Shrek's swamp and not god's swamp?
>>
>>565144196
aw fuck you brought the kling ons from retard-trek i'm shaking in my pink prissy flowered undies. As sure as my name is BAL GRUUF I DECLARE YOU TO BE THE CaNCER KILLING /b/
>>
There is a philosophical belief in god as a wathcmaker. Can't remember who came up with the philosophy. But it goes like this:

Imagine you are walking down a beach. You come across a watch in the sand. Imagine that, whoever made the watch just abandoned it there on the beach without a second thought, ever.

Does that mean the watchmaker never existed? Or doesn't exist? Maybe he made the watch and was finished with it and simply let go of it.
>>
>>565144563
Got pruned.
>>
>>565144816
lol thats cuz fags like you dont deserve hot girls like me.
>>
>>565144734

God does interact with us though you just have to genuinely seek Him 24/7 and you will find Him,

He didnt just leave us in the sand
>>
>>565145125
true that is why he wanted me to give everyone this killer argument to end the thread with. To give closure to all the traumatized children including the mod who were forced to read this thread.
>>
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>>565145369
right on brother
Thread posts: 304
Thread images: 58


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