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BodyWeight General

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Thread replies: 314
Thread images: 34

File: planche pushh.gif (3MB, 500x281px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>Why bodyweight?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRmsDjMujjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Dfy_9dqxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q69nII2xTXk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2JFhkTQ1dY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_f5qDofhU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1RF7pLlyY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUmGd0wA-lM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeAQnYhrolQ

>Websites
gymnasticbodies.com/forum
startbodyweight.com
/r/bodyweightfitness
fitloop.co
http://gmb.io/

>Youtube Channels
https://www.youtube.com/user/Calisthenicmovement/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/bboySaza/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/FitnessFAQs/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/GoldMedalBodiesVids
https://www.youtube.com/user/DemonDrills/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/slizzardman/videos

>Books
>Overcoming Gravity
https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7663751/Overcoming_Gravity_%28gnv64%29

>Foundation 1+2 and Handstand 1
http://kickass.to/mastering-gst-pdf-2014-ubtrg-t8577688.html

>Foundation 3+4, Handstand 2 and Rings 1
http://kickass.to/mastering-gst-2-foundation-three-foundation-four-handstand-two-and-rings-one-pdf-t9160432.html#main

>Stretch course, Front Split
https://kickass.to/gb-stretch-course-front-split-wildturkey00-pdf-2015-ubtrg-t10296049.html
>>
>Official Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/DETH4J6k

>Safest Straight-Arm Progression (Steady State Cycles)
www.antranik.org/how-to-implement-a-steady-state-training-cycle

>Common Prereqs
www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/3750-prerequisites/?p=93540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkI1GBjj3eQ

>Wrist Prehab and Bodyline Exercises
www.kitlaughlin.com/docs/wrist-mobility_bodyline-exercises_handstands.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMfW2kCkeE

>Rice Bucket Prehab For Wrists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqZiVt9YBX0

>Bicep Tendon Prep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaH_HUMooyM

>Shoulder Dislocates for Mobility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NbuQdGdXH8

>Proper Scapula Positions For Statics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-njKUc-f9U&list=UUMrY-JHG6bF3LEdlDvhv7XA [Embed]

>Ido Portal Scapula Mobilization
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Wo095zPnc

>Homemade parallette guide
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/13_03_Parallettes.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvbbrulbW8Q
>Greasing the Groove explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGjtPtXXWCg

>Basic Stretching Routines
http://phraktured.net/
>>
File: PPP+hollow.gif (4MB, 500x281px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>FAQ
>Which routine to begin with?
What are your goals?

>Skills and Gymnastics: Do Foundation
>Strength: Do Foundation or Build your own routine with Overcoming Gravity
>Aesthetics
>Easy mode - Join a gym/google BarStarz/do wighted exercises
>Hard mode - Do Foundation or Build your own routin with Overcoming Gravity

>I'm REALLY overweight:what do?
Stop eating like a hippo and cardio, cardio, cardio. Don't forget to start a routine.

>How difficult is it to actually snap my shit up/how dangerous it is while doing bw exercises?
Connective tissue adapts slower than your muscles, and having great muscular strength is certainly not any indication of having strong joints and tendons; progress slowly and do mobility exercises.

tl,dr: Take it slowly

>Can I do Foundation 1 and Handstand 1 and the Stretching series simultaneously, or is it supposed to be one after I'm finished with the other?
Read the pdfs

I'm stupid: Yes, they are built to be worked out in conjunction.
e.g.: mon Foundation, tue Handstand, wed Foundation, thu Handstand, fri Foundation, sat Handstand, sun Rest

>All gymnasts are manlets, am I too tall to do bodyweight?
You can still do bw, but the taller you are (go and play basketball, bruh!) the harder it will be.
https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/18457-motivation-for-the-taller-guys/

>How big can someone get from bodyweight training?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=male+gymnast+physique

>What equipment is needed for Foundation?
>F1,F2,H1
Stall Bars or Something to hold on to for Body Levers/Dragon Flags and stretching exercises
Horizontal Bar or Rings
Parallel Bars
Elevated surface/Box for exercises with elevated feet

>F3,F4,R1,H2
At this point joining a gym or having necessary equipment should not be an issue (in that you should already have everything or joined a gym properly equipped)

>Can I lift 2 to 3 times a week and do bodyweight? If so what would be recommended?
Yes, just ask anons.
>>
Alright guys, got lots of questions

>L-sits, scapula retracted or slightly protracted? since Manna has them retracted, would it be better to focus on retraction now even when doing half/tuck L-sits? should there be focus on pushing the chest out, i.e., shoulders back?

and how bad is Antranik's form here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZJoSP66HI
since his arms don't seem locked and his chest not open

>best rep schemes/progression? Naterman often talks about how F1 overemphasizes endurance, as well as adding too many reps per week, improper deload, and too much of a requirement for endurance.

thoughts? what do you think are F1s holes? what's your cutoff point for mastery? how would you improve F1?

>PROPER pull-up form. turns out i was overly stressing the rotator cuffs as well as using traps instead of lats, turning into this ugly hunch at the top. who knew you could get pull-ups wrong.

should scapular retraction and depression be the best pointers, as well as refraining from internal rotation? should i really focus on "pushing" chest out? can pull-ups/chin-ups crudely substitute for rows?

>should i do elevated push-ups? i can do 5x9 pushups at the moment but don't want progress into PPP yet since i'm still doing planks at 4x36 and would rather get a good planche lean first

>best/favorite source on mobility and stretching? Kit Laughlin, GB stretch series, or Thomas Kurz (Scientifically Stretching)?
>>
>>960746
Get your push ups up to 5x15 before progressing.
>>
Is it possible to replace stiff-legged windmill with shoulder dislocates for F1?
>>
How do you pair bodyweight training for the purpose of strength / skill training with conditioning and cardio?
>>
Should I do l-sit and all the variations if I have a longer arm? It's impossible to keep the shoulders even.
>>
so I can do a lot of push ups, I recently started doing them in my basement though because I didn't want to get sweat all over my carpet anymore

so its a concrete floor down there, really hurts my shoulders to do push ups on it for some reason. It's an ouch pain too, like I'm hurting myself. dont know why
>>
So i downloaded the stretch course from OP and glanced through the pdf, didnt look at the videos yet.
How do people usually du this?
>Front split, bridge and middle split series all once a week as a MWF setup for instance?
>Do as many as you can, and practice the rest?
> When you can complete all of the series, do you just keep doing them?
>>
>>965614
Well assumedly you'd have to work towards full versions of each stretch, starting at a not so deep version and working through to the full version (which would take a while)
>>
>>965111
you need balance. stop doing push ups for a while and do rows with full retraction at the top. you're working your anterior delts too much and putting yourself at risk for an impingement because there's no balance from the posterior delts. seriously just stop. for some reason, people think they should keep going even though they feel something is wrong until it goes bad (like me).

you may also be doing push-ups wrong.

fingers forward, head facing the floor, hands directly below shoulders, whole body touches floor at the same time (not the dick first, not your face), don't arch your back, activate core quads and glutes slightly to keep straight, retract at the bottom and protract fully at the top for serratus work.

are you doing dips, curls, bench press, military press/OHP/HSPU, planche progressions, but no rows or pull-ups? that could be why
>>
>>965111
might also be improper pull-up/chin-up form causing stress on rotator cuffs
>>
>>966027
I need some TRX bands, I do lots of exercises but I do a disproportionate number of push ups compared to all other things for super setting and circuit purposes
>>
>>956039
Great resources!
Ive decided to do foundation 1 and the stretching. But are there more resources for foundation 1 available? The link in OP leads to a pdf but is there supposed to be videos with it? There is only like 3 pictures and 2 tips for some exercises.
>>
>>960746
Start with protraction and as you gain compression strength you push hips forward and the arms back.

Antranik is not advanced by any means.

I would follow rep mastery for F1 unless you are stuck for SEVERAL MONTHS with PERFECT FORM because of rep requirements.

You are correct about pull ups. Avoid internal rotation like it is the devil. It fucked up my shoulders. But rows are substantially different from pull ups. Neither will substitute the other one.

Keep at it with push ups and planks. Personally, I had my planche lean way before push ups mastery. But that is very individual.

I recommend both GB and Kit Laughlin. There is something good to learn from both. They have different approaches, and it is all about being clever integrate both. Perhaps use GB as a template, keep the most important stretches and add the most important stretches from Kit. Since we all have our different deficits there are different stretches that we benefit from. Like, a seiza is rest time for me, but pec minor stretches almost get me crying. Just remember to target WHOLE the body still.
>>
>>964518
Why would you want to do that? Windmills are great, and you get shoulder dislocates in H1

>>965024
To keep it simple do light cardio on off days or right after skill work.

>>965093
I would ask this over at GB. I believe none of us are qualified to answer that question.

>>965111
Problems with with push ups usually arise from doing them with elevated shoulder blades rather than depressed shoulder blades. Or an imbalanced physique.

>>967435
That is the problem with pirated programs. On GB there are videos, form check forums, a wiki for advice and experienced moderators ready to answer any question you might have. You have to buy the programs to benefit from that.
>>
what are your guys current Foundation progressions???

im at open tuck front lever, frog stand, side lever block, L sit scissors, static pistol squat, russian dips, and L sit Chinups
>>
>>964187
got it.

>>967528
thanks for clearing things up Alex. one last thing, why does F1 have sPL right before HBP? by the time i'm doing push-ups, i already feel a bit tired from planks. isn't it counterintuitive to put similar work outs on the same day?
>>
>>968784

Not on foundation, but im doing currently at


Rope Pull-ups arm to elbow
hspu against belly button to wall
adv fl which may need a form check
hands at hips psuedo planche hold
>>
>>968784
I am way behind. Flexibility and endurance strength requirements are holding me back. I am at full hollow holds, straddle ups, planche lean, ppp, rows, elbow twists, cossack squats. I am trying to master the exercises meeting the same tempo and rom requirements as the athlete, perhaps slacking on the reps since I respond well to the lower range.

>>969455
Are you doing the split or all the exercise progressions on one day? The split is for new people and will not have you do sPL and HBP on the same day.
>>
>>970163
The split on the website does have spl and hbp on the same day

As for my question. Why, if I'm stuck on the early progressions, should I not just stop doing gb movements and focus purely on mobility and 3 days intense stretching building up until my deficits are improved?

Coach always says that most people's problems are mobility deficits. I'm going to spend the next 6 months doing nothing but their HS courses plus stretch series alongside kit Laughlin work and then get back into GB progressions.

I'm not going to give up all my work with weights to be stuck on straddle ups and and other nonsense. Plus it's too much volume to combine both so for me foundation is on the backburner.

Believe me I will be making foundation my primary fitness training eventually but not until my mobility isn't lacking and I'm breezing through the strength elements. I just don't want to be stuck on scapula push ups for 3 months or whatever because my hips don't swivel enough
>>
File: split.jpg (207KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>>970163
here's pic related for the split. what's your workout schedule then if it's not this?

>>970185
yeah, personally i jumped to half L-sit straight away since i didn't have the flexibility for straddle-ups. i'm planning on just keeping it at 5x12 while my flexibility improves. i know there are a lot of important iMs that i'm missing but this just seems to work better. not having the flexibility to perform the proper ROM kind of makes it a waste of time since you're limited to exerting effort in small angles and developing little flexibility and strength. also it's very frustrating.

Naterman does also talk about how F1 is lacking in terms of flexibility work, otherwise there wouldn't be any reason for the GB stretch series.

i'm not sure if i'm doing the right thing but only time will tell if what i'm doing is wrong.
>>
>>967540
>Windmills are great, and you get shoulder dislocates in H1
I tried doing F1 before and ended up having pains in my lower back when i did Windmills. I'm not sure if it's a form issue or not, but whenever i try to do one with any kind of weight i can feel it in the lower back.
>>
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How is this possible?
>>
>>970246
20kg lead weight hidden in the cap, i guess.

Or its a dynamic exercise and he is " just" jumping up and down with his legs and not actually balanced like the picture implies.
>>
>>970241
Or you bending at the hips? Some people just lean forward. The key is to fold forward. Perhaps post a form check.

>>970246
I would say it is a dynamic exercise too. Never the less, still impressive. Do you have a link to the original video?
>>
>>970258
>Or you bending at the hips?
I might have done that actually. I just had a hard time figuring out right form from the pictures in F1, also when i looked up videos of it on youtube everyone seems to position the upper body differently which only made me more confused.

So you're supposed to fold at the hips, and keep you upper body straight? or do you twist the upper body?
like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvDVfY00sI
or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-da8NJKPhxQ

Because to me they look different.
>>
>>970209
Im>>970185

That's my point too. My problem with GB is that it's proclaimed as a full stand alone system yet there's a ridiculously low level of information. It's good but they just haven't caught on to the masses saying it needs to be updated and more detail about the exercises added in. Sommers claims that the videos are meant to be studied in depth. But what are we meant to be looking at in particular?

From my standpoint. I am still at a fitness deficit, even a movement deficit. I'm 26 and the only exercise I did before ta year ago was long distance running at primary school. I didn't even know what bulking and cutting was a year ago, let alone what retraction and protraction of the shoulder blades were.

So as a novice wanting to learn gymnastics training, along with my novice intelligence of fitness, how am I supposed know what to look for when performing these exercises that are meant to be more complex and intricate than barbells? On top of what every other dumb thought and insecurity I had as a beginner?

Oh those 2 bulletpoints will do the trick...

Sommers dumbest mistake was dropping Kit Laughlin from the team. I'd recommend anyone to check out his videos. High quality, a lot of information and attention to detail. He won't have the advanced levels of movements that Foundations has, but he goes in depth on the forms for beginning gymnastic movements better than Sommers. Hollow holds, proper push ups, ABH. For a beginner wanting to know how to do these holds and movements properly I think Kit takes the cake. Plus it'll save your ass later if you think you've progressed a few elements only to find your bent hollow body holds were terrible.

Sorry, rant over
>>
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>>970280
if you look at it from an educational perspective, GB is lacking. but if you look at it as a business model, it's quite viable. that's the fundamental difference between Kit and Sommer. Kit just wants to learn and teach more using whatever he gets without sticking to any set school or principle. he doesn't care about pride, ownership, or money. for Sommer, teaching everyone everything he knows would make him useless. that's why membership is needed and why Foundation alone barely tells you anything about proper form. if he cuts off the umbilical cord and removes exclusive access, there's no point in buying. but because injuries become very likely and progress impossible without dedicated self-educating, and because there aren't many good sources out there, he makes it difficult for anyone half-assed about gymnastics to get anywhere without buying into his program.

that's also why F1 has a lot of holes. for the same reason Nvidia gimps its processors, or why Windows offers different operating systems with lacking features, or why coach exists when there's first class, this creates artificial rooms for improvement and more ways to "upgrade" a product. it's probably his way of foreseeing piracy.

i don't really mind though. Sommer's a businessman. it was that very desire to make money in the first place that opened up a path to gymnastics for anybody who had an internet connection. capitalism works in its own way.

this also means there's a lot of room for experimenting right now. many different paths we can use to optimize our training and no set method for it. hopefully threads like these will continue to serve as an alternative nexus for knowledge. anyone experimenting with a different method would do a great service posting their results.

to add to that, the next thing to put in the sticky would be comprehensive sources of good form. youtube is filled with horrendous advice and only occasionally are there videos that make very clear what good form is.
>>
>>970246
what's the problem with it? is there no such thing as an inverted planche?
>>
>>970246

These street fag need to get on some gymnastics (srs)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1cWOqiyfOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa624efH-Qk
>>
>>970246
bboys do some amazing shit
>>
Alright /asp/, I desperately need your help. Last year, I decided to start Start Bodyweight, Starting Stretching, and Molding Mobility. But I only ended up exercising once every couple months because each session takes SO LONG. I want to get in better shape, but I can not make myself do it for +1 hour at a time, three times a week. I don't know much about fitness, I can't afford to buy books and shit to learn, and I don't pirate. So I am BEGGING for your help.
Goals: I want to slowly, but consistently, improve my strength, mobility, and flexibility throughout my whole body. I know I won't get ripped, and I don't want to. I just want to improve my physical condition for health, martial arts, and parkour.
Routine Requirements:
1)I can do 30 minute sessions 3 times a week. I simply can not fit any more into my schedule.
2)To facilitate this, I will obviously need to stick to exercises/stretches that work as many muscle groups at once as possible.
3) Since I am posting in this thread, I obviously want to stick to bodyweight. I can't afford to buy a bunch of dumbbells, and don't wont them cluttering up my house. I have a pull up bar and can improvise dip bars.
3) The exercise can be as intense or as difficult as it needs to be within the given time constraints. My problem isn't that I'm to much of a wimp or that I hate exercise, it's just that I can't stand to spend SO MUCH time on it.
Please, please, PLEASE help me /asp/. I would be eternally grateful.
>>
>>971674
do the reddit bodyweightfitness routine

dont do squats

move lsits to off days
>>
>>971746
That seems like it takes up just as much time as Start Bodyweight. It's mostly the same stuff. Is there really no way I can get a full body workout in less time?
>>
Question regarding the wrist conditioning in Handstand:
Does the wrist exercises build size in forearms? Feels like the forearm muscles are being worked, just curious. Would be cool if they added mass to forearms
>>
>>971674
>>971775
If you want results you have to put in the work you fucking pussy. That is just how it is with everything in life.
You could do super sets
Something like
Warm up with burpees then Pull ups - Squats - Dips Something core, go right from one exercise to the other with no rest, then after your done all rest for 2-4 minutes and repeat. You could probably do that circuit 5-6 times in your time room. Basically super sets

But you are not gonna make it anyways with the mentality you have.
>>
>>972766
>Does the wrist exercises build size in forearms? Feels like the forearm muscles are being worked, just curious.

You have basically answered your own question. Of course they do, but hypertrophy is the lesser priority in the wrist exercises for handstand, stability and strength are as they work your forearm muscles from every direction to correct any imbalances and strengthen possibly weak musculature.
>>
>>971674
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.madbarz.madbarzApp
I've been using this app for a few weeks now and really like it. Except for a few exercises, you should be able to do everything at home with any equipment.
>>
Do anyone of you guys do gymnastics?
I'm looking for all the advice I can get as someone who wants to start from an untrained level as an adult.

My primary question as of now is, will strength from weightlifting have any carry over? Or is it all relative strength?
My absolute strength might be okay, but relatively maybe not. I can at best like 12 unweighted chin-ups but can do chin-ups with 30kg added...
>>
I cant touch the bar on rows, what to do?
>>
>>970185
Optimally, you should be doing hard stretching once a week for every muscle group and daily limbering. I see no reason to focus on mobility and stretching at the cost of your strength. When you get back you will have to work on another deficit; strength.

>>970209
I am basically on a hybrid where I do all elements on the same day two times a week. Then I have two handstand days with handstand work, shoulder mobility, body line work, press handstand/compression work. I stretch after each session with a medium intensity session.
>>
>>975716

I didn't say I'd stop strength training. I said I'd stop bodyweight strength training. Still doing barbell work. I don't want to drop barbell work for GB only to spend 6 months on straddle ups not progressing in strength
>>
>>956039
>>956039
who here also lifts? im currently training powerlifting style, specifically Texas Method, meaning I lift for volume on monday, have a slightly easier day on wednesday, then lift heavy on friday. Should I do my foundation routine before or after lifting at the gym? Should I do it on the same days or alternate days?
>>
>>968784
Your trip is literally my name...
>>
>>976474
what a coincidence its my name too :^)
>>
>>970163
you honestly might wanna try and progress on some of the ones that youre held back on in terms of reps, if you think about it the guy doing the display for the exercises can already do the mastered exercise, meaning he can do it with perfect form since hes not a total beginner. just my 2 cents
thats why i always advocate pairing foundation with some other sort of routine thats heavy on the basics like pullups and dips which foundation only has you doing 5x5 for
>>
>>975716
woah. you do everything in one day? surely it must be difficult to maintain form after all that, especially with the short rest times
>>
>>976930
I am actually not following foundation training. I am doing a hybrid to help me better reach mastery of the foundation progressions. I also had the experience that doing some other programming (usually building maximal strength before endurance strength) is the fastest way to go for me. The exercises I mentioned are those exercises that I need to master, but not necessarily the ones that I am currently doing in order to master them

>>977561
I always had a good work capacity. It is something that people should work towards over the course of months or years.
>>
>>976254
Hmm, how do you plan to strengthen your serratus anterior? And how do you plan on maintaining straight arm strength and compression strength?

I am not against barbell work but foundation work has some specific strength requirements that barbell training cannot mimic.

>>975595
Work your way up to it. I am also a few centimeters off the bar with my chest. I am unsure whether I can decrease that distance any more.

>>973414
Much of classic gymnastics are straight arm movements. Surely bent arm strength will help, but most likely barbell training has made you stiff and therefore you need to stretch a lot.

>>972766
The wrists recruit a lot of their power from the forearm muscles. You both strengthen and stretch the forearms.

>>971674
The more quality time (up to a certain point) you put into a exercising the better the results are. Spending 3 x 30 min. a week is surely not optimal by any means and you would see better gains by doing a higher volume.

But we work in a world where we can only put so much time into our hobbies. You should do what you can for now because it is certainly better than doing nothing. Just know that by adding more right now will get you stronger faster.

The foundation 1 3 days a week split seems like a good idea for you. Workouts should take around 20-40 min. depending on how strict you are.

>>970382
Good points. I agree. Although I find it hard to sympathize with them because of some arguably unethical decisions they have made.
>>
>>970794
it would be like doing a victorian on the ground.

Most olympic gymnasts can't perform a perfect victorian, so it's unlikely any mere mortal could perform it's ground equivalent.
>>
>>976379
pls help me asp
>>
I wasnt doing rows for 6 months and now my rotator cuff cramps and hurts, should i stop working out until i have possibility to do rows?
>>
>>976379
you shouldn't do foundation at the same time as a separate routine,
Best is to modify your training with elements you want from foundation, and adjusting your training workload to account for it and it's ideals.
>>
>>978142
if youre combining gst with lifting theres 2 ways you can do it depending on your rate of recovery
the what id like to call tyson edwards method (lift one day, bodyweight the next, rinse repeat) or you can pair up f1 before or immediately after your lifting session m/w/f
>>
Doing Foundation, how bad is it to skip one rest week? I am just above to advance in 2 moves, i want to just go for them instead of having this rest week.
>>
>>978258
>rest week
you mean a deload week? theyre not VERY necessary especially if youre on the beginning progressions unless youre moving up on the exercises at a rapid pace
>>
>>978135
but the ground is stable, unlike the rings
sounds to me that if a mere mortal were to perform a victorian anywhere, it would be on the ground first
>>
>>978273
thats what ive seen too
very similar to doing a maltese and victorian on dip bars first since they offer support on the forearm
>>
>>956039
Op is the guy of the pic?
>>
Why is this thread on /asp/ and not /fit/?
>>
>>978491
Because the /fit/ mods delete them
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>>978563
why tho? /plg/ is just a bunch of fat autists and they're allowed to stay there.
>>
>>978491
>>978563
>>978570
they dont delete them. if you put a calisthenics thread on fit it turns to complete shitposting very fast
>>
not sure if i'm doing it right. i'm doing foundation and i just came after a deload (but i followed Naterman's advice and kept reps/times the same and just did 2-3 sets instead).

so i was doing 5x9 push-ups before the deload, then 3x9 on the deload. the foundation progression says to go to 5x12 but i could only do 2x12 with the 3rd set at 5 push-ups before technical failure, and the fourth at 7.

should i still bother trying to reach 5x12? or does this mean i'm not responding very well to high reps and should just go to the next progression? OR do elevated push-ups? what's your recommendation?

in the first place, why is 5x9 not considered mastery while 5x15 is? i understand it's for joint preparation, but isn't strength the more optimum goal (while being vigilant for any signs of joint/tendon/ligament pain and scaling back when appropriate)? endurance gains don't carry over to strength, so more difficult progressions will always require strength.

also, is it a bad/good idea to do a set of dips once a week? i kinda like them and have the shoulder flexibility for it from skinning the cat
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>>980427
>not sure if i'm doing it right. i'm doing foundation and i just came after a deload (but i followed Naterman's advice and kept reps/times the same and just did 2-3 sets instead).
You should imo follow the program and don't make any adjustments to it. I don't know the thoughts behind cutting the time as apposed to sets. I can see that might be a good idea with long static hold times, but as for your push up progression's it does not seem like an god idea.

>so i was doing 5x9 push-ups before the deload, then 3x9 on the deload. the foundation progression says to go to 5x12 but i could only do 2x12 with the 3rd set at 5 push-ups before technical failure, and the fourth at 7.
Maybe that is because you chose to cut the sets instead of reps?

>should i still bother trying to reach 5x12? or does this mean i'm not responding very well to high reps and should just go to the next progression? OR do elevated push-ups? what's your recommendation?
Yes you should follow the program and get your push ups up. What it means is that you are (no offence) a weak bitch who can't do some very simple physical feats. That is what it means, and on top of that it sounds if you lack patience. You are not even yet out of the hypertrophy range for push ups. Follow the program, don't adjust it, don't fool your self, you are very weak atm. There are no short cuts. Be patient.
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>>978166
Do not train something that causes pain or irritation. It could likely be a muscular imbalance. Like if you do many push ups you must balance out the shoulder girdle by doing a certain amount of rows as an example.

>>978258
Depends. However, you have to realize that skipping rest is a bad thing. As Leo correctly states - skipping deload in the first micro cycle with elements that are not very challenging it will not hurt your progress that much.

But if you are working with some heavy endurance strength elements and you completely skip rest you WILL burn out if you are working at the edge of your capacity each work out as you should be doing. The same thing applies to heavy strength training.

Foundation is programmed around the microcycles (which is a good thing), and to have the programming work for you, you must follow it as much as possible.

It should certainly not be your ego that put your progress at risk.

>>978273
Victorian training are done using the rings as an elevated surface which allows you to adjust your pike and with ease transition in and out of the position. That cannot be done on p-bars or on the ground. In addition to that rings open up to a lot of cool combos like front lever to victorian.

>>980427
2-3 sets is too little work. Go with 4-5 sets and instead adjust down the hold time/reps.

As for the push ups, break the 3rd microcycle into smaller steps. You are certainly not the first guy to reach a plateau here.

The goal of the push ups is to give you a solid base of strength AND hammer in good form. Imagine doing 5 x 10 PPP if you have not gotten 5 x 15 push ups and not perfected your form. Foundation also puts a huge focus on building capacity for later ring strength training where you need to be able to have a lot of joint prep and capacity to be able to stay on the rings for a prolonged amount of time. There is also the point that once you have reach the capacity goals later strength training become almost plateau-less and cont.
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>>980427
>>981031
is just a ride through mastery or the third micro cycle (except for manna work, sPL which is heavily skill focused and advanced iM work).

It is a good idea to have a small set of dips once in a while AFTER your foundation work. That way you can work on your form so that it will not hold you back later. Remember to stretch shoulder capsule and pec minor a lot with all this push up/dips work.

>Yes you should follow the program and get your push ups up

It is the consensus of GB that push ups are required to be broken in smaller steps for a lot of people. In fact, with GB+ being released you can have a work out scheduler which recalculates exact rep number/hold time amount based on your current performance and the mastery goal.

With that said I agree that push ups are a grind. I progressed to PPP a while ago after I reached 5 x 10 consistently. I have a very high concentration of high twitch fibers, and in combination with long limbs and would figure that the last 5 x 5 reps would take me a little less than a year to achieve. Considering pro and con I ended up settling for 5 x 10 for now and revisit push ups when I have a higher degree of maximal strength. Doing 4 x 5 PPP already from 3 x 3 it seems like a good idea since I clearly respond well to low reps
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>>980670
Forgot to quote you in >>981056
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A question on handstands
I'm a real beginner, like can't even do the wall walk. The problem is that where I train (my attic) there's no actual vertical walls. I have a pull up bar across the ceiling and rings hanging from it. Can I do a sort of progression by hooking my feet into the rings and walking from a plank position up to a pike? Or something like that?
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>>981490
just go to a fucking park dude
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>>981884
where the hell do you live that parks have walls?
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>>983016
the park i go to has a bathroom facility near an open field, with a door inbetween it that i do a majority of my handstand work on involving a wall. if you cant find a place to do handstands on youre not looking hard enough senpai
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>>981031
Could you (or other people :)) give some more info (or links to good resources) on that balancing stuff you mentioned in the first paragraph?

I'm a total newbie, just lurking here to gather info and gain some understanding, as I'm still in a stage of just doing cardio to lose some fat before starting "serious" exercise (as soon as I'm no longer really overweight). So I have no practical insight of my own yet, but in the little bit of reading/researching I've done until now, I've occasionally come across vague references to such balancing concepts, but never any real explanations.

I.e. if you train muscle (group) X (or do exercises A or B or C) then you should also train muscle (group) Y (or do exercises D or E or F) to keep them in balance (to avoid bad posture, or potential injuries in the long run, or ...). Similarly, you might need to stretching exercises M or N or P to maintain flexibility etc.

I assume that many programs incorporate such thinking and thus implicitly take care of such issues, but I think it's seldom explicitly explained.
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>>983016
you could even use a chain link fence and it would probably be easier tbqh, if your park has no fences OR walls it's probably just a field, for the record.
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>>983044
The issue I was asking about was not not finding walls (my house is, indeed, built with walls). The issue was not having a wall in the attic where my training takes place. I have no problem going down a single flight of stairs for the HS training and then back up for the rest, but if I could make do with the rings alone I'd been interested. That's all.
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>>980670
so how do i properly progress to 5x12? do i do as many reps as i can maybe 3 short to technical failure, and then do the same for the next set? like i can do 20 push-ups first set, then 15 next, 12, 11, 8. or do i maintain a certain amount of reps like 5x10 for three weeks and then attempt a 5x12 the fourth week? i really don't know man.

i don't wanna be in the dark only to figure out there was a better way to do something. foundation isn't a bible but it's the best anybody's got while they're figuring things out. besides, i'm already doing things substandard without a coach or clear instructions. i don't think we should have that attitude of not improving things because that's antithesis to what we're doing.

>>981031
>later strength training become almost plateau-less

that gets me hyped. what do you mean by breaking it down into smaller steps?

is Naterman's video here alright to follow for progression and rep schemes?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wae4h9GyKU

>>980670
>Maybe that is because you chose to cut the sets instead of reps?
>>981031
>2-3 sets is too little work

do you guys program deloads as GB instructs? i wanted to try out Naterman's advice in pic related which is why i did that. if you guys wanna have a look here
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>>984784
>so how do i properly progress to 5x12?
By following the program that has neatly laid out a pretty good progression. I am not saying this from a perspective of militantly following the program just to follow the program. It works, and you probably as a newbie do not have sufficient knowledge or experience to make adjustments, and if you then you are just sabotaging your self, most likely.

You said you had mastered 5x9, the next progression from there is 4x12, not 5x12.

My approach has been to pretty much try new personal records each workout, i try to reach 4x12 by getting 12 with each set. So it looks like 12/12/11/9, then next work out i improved that with 12/12/12/10, and then the next work out i did 12/9/12/11(fucked up second set, dunno why just happened), and then i did 12/12/12/11 and then i had to do a rest week i did 4x6, and then i came back and i fucking nailed 4x12.

Next up was 4x15 , first attempt looked like this 15/12/12/9, next workout 15/15/12/10, next workout 10/10/10/10/ for some reason, maybe bad day, i dont remember. Next workout 12/12/12/12,, dunno why, next workout 15/15/15/13, next 15/15/15/14, deload week, 5x8, then coming back i nailed 15/15/15/15/

That is just my progress.(i packed on good muscle on my chest as well) But i followed the program and stuck with it, even though it seemed slow and some times not hitting even the previous record. If you meet an obstacle and you change the shit up right away it shows bad perseverance, and if you are inexperienced you don't either get to know your body or your self because you change things up. What you respond good or bad to is to early to tell.

Naterman gives good advice in general, but in this case i will disregard it, i have never lost progress after a deload week, and in my opinion it is way better to cut the reps instead of the sets. You are not being held in the dark.

Now shut the fuck up and get to work you bitch. :-)
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>>985204
>the next progression from there is 4x12, not 5x12

oh i must be retarded. isn't the first time this happened. thanks man. i was wondering why i was expected to jump to 5x12.

i'll get back to it. gonna stick to Naterman's deload for maybe 3 months and see how that pans out.
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>>981490
You should start with headstands to build some basic strength and awareness. The best option would be to follow Handstand 1.

>>984140
Not really. The push ups vs rows is a classic scenario. Basically, balancing out the should girdle means having a healthy balance in your rotator cuff because if a certain movement pattern is dominating it will cause irritation because of the narrowness of the shoulder joint cavity. Further aggravation will result in further pain and muscle inhibition. This is probably as simple as I can explain it. You have to pick up physical therapy to have a more in-dept look at it.

You would be surprised by how many programs that do NOT. Especially in terms of body weight training it is a huge problem. Shoulder extension and shoulder retraction are rarely included in a proper way because of the fact that either people are exposed to back lever work prematurely (because it is dangerous to train for adults) or people refuse to include weighted mobility because of muh bwf ideology. It is certainly hard to train retraction/extension as a beginner with only body weight training.

>>984784
>what do you mean by breaking it down into smaller steps?

Your minicycle will have you progress from like 5 x 48s to 5 x 60s. You basically add a third step in between so that your progression is 5 x 48 to 5 x 54 to 5 x 60. Remember to do this consequently so that you still deload all elements at the same time.

Naterman's advice is good and that is basically what changed my approach. If you follow the advice in pic related you are following the best arpproach to deload in foundation endurance strength training.

Unlike the other anon I know it is rather the rule than the exception to have problems with push ups and I know that have had to break down the microcycle and somehow tamper with their deload. Whether they did follow Naterman's advice as I told them to or they did a full maintenance set every day they still followed the science behind cont.
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>>984784
what Naterman said: To maintain endurance strength capacity you must very often work within an endurance strength rep/hold time spectrum.
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>>973414
>>973414
I coach gymnastics. Depends on what sort of gymnastics you are interested in? Artistic?
Having any sort of strength is great, I've seen lots of untrained adults who cannot do a pull up when they start.
You may find you have poor mobility due to weightlifting.
I personally found my legs very heavy due to lots of lifting when I was younger.
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>>987954

thanks for the advice. here's some info on how antioxidant supplementation gets in the way of exercise adaptations.

www.researchgate. net/profile/Paul_Della_Gatta/publication/51557960_Infusion_with_the_antioxidant_N-acetylcysteine_attenuates_early_adaptive_responses_to_exercise_in_human_skeletal_muscle/links/00463535ecc2b21545000000.pdf

in summary, your body makes its own antioxidants to lower ROS (reactive oxygen species) that are produced during exercise. ROS leads to tissue damage and muscle fatigue which appears to make antioxidant supplementation good for performance. however, these ROS metabolites also lead to pathways for exercise adaptation, i.e., getting stronger. supplementing antioxidants does that for your body instead, and improves your performance during that workout, but will also reduce the improvements you received because the body is no longer regulating its own ROS and adaptive pathways.

in this case, it was intravenous supplementation of n-acetylcysteine with eight 27-32 year old men performing cycling.

for any doubts as to whether this applies to relevant populations (20 something male), doing relevant exercises (eccentrics, isometrics, concentrics), or at relevant doses (like a cup of tea) read their related literature. the sample size appears too small to provide anything generalizable, but i don't know if metabolic pathways would differ too much between person to person. i also don't know the effect sizes or the other studies cited.

for relevance, fish oil commonly has the antioxidant tocopherol that reduces rancidification, increasing shelf life. fish oil itself also attenuates inflammation, which may not be a good thing as these findings suggest. tea, cocoa, black rice, are among many antioxidant sources.

with this, i suggest not taking any antioxidants before exercise. i don't really have the time to get more grounded in the literature, but maybe i'll post findings later on.
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>>987989
Ehh, thank you, but when did we discuss nutrition?
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Guys i will be getting rings real soon, any good plan? body by rings or R1?
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>>988538
Neither. Rings 1 requires a solid base of strength and Body by Rings is poorly programmed. That is not to say that you cannot train on the rings. You can still do rows, and once you have solid p-bar support you can work rings support hold.

But, as an adult beginner, engaging in the more advanced rings elements (even ring dips) unprepared might lead to injure or stalled progress.
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>>988592
I have already mastered p-bar dips so i will jump into support hold and definetely rows. Should i add some pull ups and push ups maybe?
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>>988596
There is no inherent advantage in practicing pull ups on the rings. If you plan to do push ups on the rings make sure that you have solid protraction and depression in your normal push ups. The instability of the rings can grind down your connective tissue around the elbow joints over a longer period of time if you shake too much. When you have solid push ups I would suggest you start out with straight arm planks until you have at least 3 x 30s without any shaking at all before doing the push ups. 5 x 30 or even 5 x 60s if you are a beast.
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>>988657
Oh okay, thanks for help :)
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>>988257
nah just some info i wanted to share with everyone
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Soooo i ve got a question. I m a 25yo with avarage mobility, nothing amazing but i m not a block of marble either. I d like to be able to perform gymnastics splits, both frontal and sideway, do you think that, given enough time and training, i could become able to do them or it s just too late for a 25yo to learn?
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>>991017
never too late my man. if anything, you're pretty young. check Kit Laughlin at his website, or on youtube.

for a more condensed version, try the GB stretch series. they have a program for front and middle split.

i'd definitely recommend going to Kit first. his videos are very enjoyable and informative. just really drill into your head the key sensations and NEVER push yourself too hard in a stretch.
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>>991067
Ok i m digging right into it now, thanks!
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I am pretty sure that the time spent on computer is fucking up my forearms,elbows and shoulders for that matter more then anything else.

Thoughts?
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Who else made their own bodyweight gym out of PVC pipe?
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>>991017
It will take some time but it is never too late.

>>991333
Too much computer time usually results in tight muscles (forward posture). You want to stretch your traps, biceps, serratus anterior, sternocleidomastoideus, pec minor, lats, shoulder capsule, and strengthen rhomboids, lower/middle traps, lats, posterior deltoids, serratus anterior and pec minor. Doing this will most likely gradually remove tightness and irritation.
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>>956039
>BodyWeight General
I like this.
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>>991508
Another anon here. Will doing Foundation + Stretch Series be enough to correct posture? Or one does have to be in a perfect shape before starting Foundation?
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I've worked up to F7 for 3 days a week now (m,w,f) and I want to add in HS to my program lol don't even ask why I wasn't doing it before.

Should I put it before F7 or on rest days?
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what is the endgame of pseudo planche pushups?

beginner here doing it for a bit more then 3 months, doing the reddit bwf routine. goal is muscle.

currently doing 3 sets of pppu, and moving my hands back a little once I reach 3x8.

Is this all I do? is there any progression I do after reaching a certain level?
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>>993923
hands to hips, then declined
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>>991508
Wow, you just summed up all my postural problems! +1karma

Do you have any suggestions for a rehab routine? Especially stretches for the muscles mentioned and strengthening exercises for lower/middle traps, posterior delts, serratus anterior and pec minor? (my lats are ok)

I an doing some googling now but you seem knowledgeable so i am wonder if you have any suggestions?

I have a pair of dumbells, pull up par, rings, elastic band and cable thing to mount on door. I have no bench so some of the rehab exercises i can not do.


>>991017
At age 25 your age is not yet a limiting thing. Your body is still young and your stiffness is from lack of use rather then deterioration of aging i would say. Of course you won't reach Olympic level but.. Still really damn good

>>993450
Another anon here. Will doing Foundation + Stretch Series be enough to correct posture?
It is probably going to help, but it is no guarantee that it fixes your particular posture problems. So finding out what the issues are and then making a program to spessifically handle them would seem ideal.

>Or one does have to be in a perfect shape before starting Foundation?
Not at all, it is made for couch potatoes. It starts very easy so almost everyone can do it.
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>>993450
It will be plenty. Remember to add Handstand 1 for optimal results.

>>993631
I would do F7 twice a week and then H1 twice a week as well.

>>993923
PPP is a stepping stone towards hollow back press but because a lot of reasons you need to also work dips and HSPU progressions.

Progressions (simplified) usually go from push ups to PPP to dip variations to HSPU progressions to dynamic variations (like swinging dips and chest rolls) to in the end put everything together into hollow back press.

As for PPP itself you just have to lean in and do push ups and lean further in as you get stronger. Remember to have shoulders protracted and depressed, maintain ppt, rest on upper side of the feet, no excessive flaring in the elbows.
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>>993998
Usually you "just" want to spend time in positions where your shoulders are extended and retracted. So rows for strength work and the GB TB stretch course, foundation HBP iM work and H1 iM work for mobility and flexibility work.

The programs are linked as torrents in the OP. Alternatively you can buy the programs at GB's website.
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I've progressed from tuck planche push ups and tuck planche holds to the same with my legs going closer to proper position.

I do heavy weighted dips and weighted handstand pushups as accessories and am adding lever pull-ups.

I have no pain yet, but are the lever pull ups considered suitable replacements for bent over barbell rows for ancillary planche pushup exercises?
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Are L-pull ups supposed to focus on pecs and front shoulders? As much as I try to retract my scapula, I don't feel they targeting my back like normal pull ups.
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On dips, what is bad form? Is it when the shoulders shrug to the ears? Should there be a slight forward lean of the chest, even for gymnastics purposes?
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Got myself a nice shoulder subluxation doing judo.

Cannot elevate or protract shoulder without pain. All other movements are fine.

Is it okay to do HSPUs without that final shrug in the end?

Am I supposed to do chinups/pullups to deadhang? Or is it okay to only lower myself to the point where my shoulders are just about to come forward/up relative to my body?
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>>996651
Always to chinups and pullups to dead hang.
Ensuring full range of motion is an important factor in training, performing a different exercise to full ROM would be more beneficial.

Maybe temporarily replace HSPU with bw dips, or if they are too easy, weighted bodyweight dips (hold a weight between your legs, or tie it to a belt designed for it)

https://youtu.be/gRbzWiyWJUA?t=1m21s

As for replacing chinups/pullups, maybe try an isometric bent arm chin hang, holding it for as long as you can for sets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHLQ_1zHiSw
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>>994680
L-pullups are simply performing an isometric abdominal and iliopsoas hold while performing the pullups.
like performing your L-sit training and your rope climb progression at the same time, so to speak.

If you feeling different work from the exercise, it could be from the different center of gravity having your legs forward would bring, potentially you are pulling with more latissimus dorsi and biceps in comparison to other upper body pulling muscles because of the differences in your bodies orientation, or it is even possible that you could be somewhat 'kipping' if you legs are not completely static in front of you during the exercises, meaning you could be accidentally cheating the exercise.

Get back to us what you feel the difference is when you come to a conclusion.
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>>970382
I feel that in regards to Kit's approach as the sharing of information and knowledge to improve fitness, it is outstanding in everyway.

But I also feel you've misinterpreted GB's intention.

There problem isn't that they are trying to create a system they can profit from, it's that they are trying to create intensive programs that are simple to follow, for the masses, but structuring it with the premise of an individual product.

The issue being that the product is incomplete, and is still being developed and modified as it comes under criticism and as fitness and gymnastics training develop.
As well as the general lack of information that the 'complete products' include, it would need to be a requirement for whomever bought the products to become an active forum member simply to even be able to understand why the different products (foundation, handstand, rings) are structured the way they are.

For this very reason is why I've found myself looking more at the work from GMB, and looking through different sources of information, like Kit Laughlin's youtube among a few other contributors (like Antranik, who is really only just getting off the ground, but will definitely be a significant resource in a few years if he keeps up the good work.)
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>>999343
I think the lack of information is a deliberate action as to not "over-coach" people and to bait people to attend the seminars where they will have all their questions answered.

This is also reflected by the GB pro+ addition where people who are unable to attend a seminar will be given extensive tools to progress better.
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>>999343
Have you seen the forums? He's questionably alienated a number of influential members such as Kit and Naterman and you can look up their takes on the issue.

It couldn't possibly be that it is still being developed. It isn't incomplete, it's meant to be. Naterman has often suggested improvements to be made a long time ago which were immediately shunned such as deloading, progression, and flexibility. It's exactly because it's a product for the masses that GB can do this. They don't need to teach you everything, the best way to progress, or proper form.

It's evident in the layout of their products. 80$ for Foundation 1, 275$ for Foundation 1-4. Why so expensive for something that still isn't complete? Then the Stretch series is separate, implying that the mobility in Foundation isn't enough. And before the Stretch series was Sommer cutting ties with Kit. Then you have other products, Nutrition, Handstand, each sold separately. The programming problems that have been pointed out (large increases in reps from week to week) haven't been solved for free. It's now a separate product named GB Pro+ for 25$ (per month, not lifetime). Because these are incomplete, attending seminars that cost 2000$ each becomes a must.

Sommer already knows everything about what works and what doesn't. I've gotten so much farther from just reading up the things that Foundation doesn't contain. For example, why is there no gymnastics equivalent to the wealth of knowledge in Kit Laughlin's Stretching and Flexibility, or Starting Strength? OG doesn't even come close. The best market is the mainstream. And that's all they're focusing on. The average person is content with plug-and-play, and so long as that's all they want, then that's all GB will sell. GB won't improve unless it becomes favorable, e.g. competition arises.

After all this, you can still disagree. But GB is a business first, and an educator second. And there is nothing wrong with that. They're still the best out there.
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>>999691
>>999343
To add to that, GB effectively nets consumers who are both price sensitive and those who are price blind. The Foundation, Stretch, HS, etc. are for those who can't afford seminars. Meanwhile, the seminar becomes an option available for those with money such as actual athletes who need the training.

It's the same way plane tickets work. If the price was fixed then it's inefficient. Because they miss out on people who are willing to pay more and the people who want to pay less. That's why first class and coach exist. That's why ISPs offer different speeds. It's not because they can't give everyone high speed. It's because it doesn't pay well. This way everyone pays as much as they can afford for the service/product they want and the company can get as much money as they can. Same with GB's products with all these different options and prices. If they released a bible with all the information they had, what else would they sell? What price would be appropriate? If this bible cost 1000$ and someone only wanted to pay 100$ then he wouldn't buy it, so GB loses profits. If someone were willing to pay 10000$ but it only cost 1000$, then GB could have earned 9000$. Add to that, you'd only have to buy it once.

Kit and Naterman do not take this approach at all. They tell you as much as they can in that moment. Kit's stretch series is only 10$ at Vimeo, while his book is 54$. Kit did not delete his youtube channel despite the move to Vimeo and Naterman still uploads videos and dutifully replies to questions. Both do not aggressively market or sue people doing the same thing (Sommer sued Steven Low, and threatened Naterman). There is no active Youtube channel for GB. You don't see Sommer explaining anything for free.

>tl;dr It's just good business.

I just wanted to make it clear to you that you are wrong and these are my points. But these don't really add to gymnastics discussion and I'd rather get back to my question on dips here >>995421
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>>994004
Currently doing Foundation but it is not enough for my particular kind of imbalances and what not. I need to do some stretching and isolation exercises or other exercises that targets the muscles directly.

I don't understand how to do the GB TB stretch course and there is little information in it as to how to do it. I assume i start at whatever level is appropriate for me and do it 2-3 times a week and once i master one step i just move on to the next level. Is that correct?
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>>995421

During conventional dips you are moving your arms from extension to hyperextension and viceversa, so, during the eccentric portion (the bottom part) your scapulae should be retracted and depressed with your serratus anterior being active throghout the entire movement to keep the scapulae sticked to your ribcage.

>On dips, what is bad form? Is it when the shoulders shrug to the ears?

If you are shrugging your shoulders during the bottom part it means you have lost control of your scapulae and are using muscles that shouldnt be active at all. If you dont feel an intense stretch in your pecs during the botom part, you are doing it wrong.

>Should there be a slight forward lean of the chest, even for gymnastics purposes?

The lean is mostly a preference thing, depending how much you want to activate your chest/triceps you can increase/decrease the lean. I think that for gymnastic purposes, the more vertical your dip is, the better.
>>
The videos don't answer the question.
WHY bodyweight? also I'm 5'7 is this a good manelt height to become a gymnast?
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>>1000064
>Currently doing Foundation but it is not enough for my particular kind of imbalances

If you are also doing Handstand 1 it should be. Unless you have some very grave injury and need to see a physical therapist for some specific exercises.

For the stretch series you basically do the follow along video and all the poses that you can in sequence with what is shown. You can do each course once a week which means 3 flexibility sessions once a week.

>>1003272
You do body weight fitness because it is fun to try different positions instead of working the same working the same and only increasing weight. But let us not get ideological. I do both weight training and body weight training to be healthy and as strong as possible in every parameter. Only foolish people dismiss the benefits that body weight strength training can provide.

5'7 is semi-tall for gymnasts but it is really a matter of proportions. It is good to have short limps, broad shoulders and small waist. It is also good to be muscular, but to have smaller bones.
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>>1000413
Thanks for clearing it up. Just wanted to be sure. Naterman's advice here with the serratus anterior really does seem to be right.

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/5959-scapula-position-for-basic-and-static-exercises/

I think this would be a good addition to the sticky or the pastebin.
>>
>>1003272
Don't quote me on this, but I like how bodyweight doesn't only tackle strength but also flexibility, the joints, tendons, ligaments, and proprioception. It feels more holistic (barring legwork). These will carry on better in old age (less arthritis, neuro gains that last long).

Gymnastics just feels more creative, with progressively more difficult movements that end up looking cooler as you go along. You aren't limited by your equipment also. It's practically free. But it definitely takes longer.

>Why bodyweight
feels like the wrong question. It depends on your goals. If you want to look good quick then it's not for you. But at your height, I think a year of smart work can get you looking lean. Big legs? Can't do it without weights. If you can afford a gym subscription and eating a large calorie surplus then weights are more up your alley. If you're poor, live near a playground, and think the stuff looks cool, then it's perfect. I just really liked the idea of a one arm chin-up then I read up on this and that, wanted a planche, handstand, etc. then ended up here. Figuring out which is best for you is a process. Just take the dive and you'll find out as you go on.
>>
>>1008689
>>1008405
Dunno how to explain it but I'm really bored of lifting weights and I totally need something new to try and this maybe mit b cool.
I always liked how gymnasts look I might give it a try.
>>
>>1009164
I hope you enjoy your time then.

Just remember that every discipline will get boring and will get super exciting at some point. The people who make significant progress are those who disregard the ego factors and train intelligently towards their goal despite whatever obstacle they face.
>>
I also had an IRL conversation with Niels Jorgensen. For those of you who do not know him Niels is on the GB World Team and hosted a seminar in Denmark some years ago. He has almost mastered all elements in foundation despite starting out as an adult.

Anyway, we talked about many thing, like handstand training. His approach to this was to start out with mobility training and body line exercises to hammer in the good form for the later wall handstands. He considered wall handstands a strength element where if you can hold a wall handstand with 5-10 cm off the wall with good alignment for 1 min. you are ready to try skill training for freestanding handstand. He liked to do wall handstand scissor kicks where you simultaneously attempted to kick out the feet and "catch" the straight handstand. This means going from pike to arch and reverse until you had the ability to catch the handstand in full lockout. Once you had that ability you could work on your freestanding handstand close to the wall while at the end of your handstand training you could train handstand kips with a spotter to try to catch the handstand again, of course this being a lot harder.

I feel like the conversation I had with him really gave me some good input to my own handstand training and made me consider to change up my routine in favor of this approach.

Of course, this is past a beginner workout and if you cannot hold a headstand and an aligned wall handstand this is out of the question for you for now.

I hope some of you guys might benefit from this advice as well.
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If all i do is Bench, static place and go through HSPU progressions, will i lose my ability to do tuck planche push-ups?
>>
Does anyone have that infographic for body weight routines?
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>>999691
>Sommer knows everything about what works and what doesn't

He does have an absolutely outstanding knowledge base, but he isn't used to training civilians, the people he actually programs for are hardly mere mortals.

But going from 'scratch' to deck squats for reps is hardly a smooth progression for a novice.

That being said, I have no doubt he will eventually make a program fit for the progression from completely sedentary to Foundation series, probably in it's own 4 instalments for the low price of $50USD each or $175USD altogether.

>Starting Strength
>OG doesn't even come close

kek
>>
>>1011116
It depends how the level you are at with HSPU relates to the level you are at the tPPU.
They essentially use the same main muscles, but the tPPU decreases leverage by torque, so they are comparably harder by default.

If you train to a comparable volume you should still be able to make progress, just make sure your form is pristine and don't skimp on the range of motion.

Although if you can already do tPPU, you should be pretty close to being able to do quite a few reps of good form HSPU, the two exercises are quite similar, with PPU getting comparably harder than HSPU the further you are able to extend your legs.


But on another note, most civies don't know what PPU are, and virtually all consider HSPU to be amazing, gymnastics style (the faux hollowback) in particular.
>>
I want to work on my health a bit, and after I found this thread and read a bunch of the linked resources, I tried some entry-level things, but I have the impression that even those are a bit too difficult for me.
If necessary, I'll just try to keep at it, but I also wanted to check if you guys might have some hints, or some specific links I could check out first (I haven't gone through everything yet, there's quite a lot of material :))

In some cases strength seems to be the issue, though not necessarily strength in the main muscles that I would associate with the movement.
For example, I can barely do 1 push-up (and probably not even that with "good form"). I feel as if arm-wise I could manage a bit more, but the main issue seems to be in keeping my body straight. To compare, I also did a "plank", and I could only hold that for about 10 seconds, but I sort of felt little mini-spasms along my chest and belly almost immediately.
Earlier, through /fit/, I discovered "wall push-ups", of which I could do like 10, but those did seem to mainly work arms/shoulders, so I'm not sure how useful it is to do them, as those areas aren't really the bottleneck for normal push-ups. Or could I just do wall push-ups + planks in the hopes that eventually I can sort of combine both improvements into normal push-ups again?

In other cases, flexibility or balance seems to be the issue.
I tried squatting, but can't keep my heels anywhere near the floor, or my upper body upright. I used to go jogging quite a bit in the past (from 15 to 3 years ago or so), and back then I did stretch a bit after my runs, but I was always pretty inflexible (e.g. in the standard reach-down-touch-toes stretch my hands never really get closer than 10 cm or 4 inches or so from the ground).

Some general info : 32 year old male, 1m95 / 6'5'', 90 kg / 200 lbs, but little muscle and quite a bit of fat (visible gut). Recently eating relatively healthy and doing some jogging (5K in 35 minutes or so).
>>
What would you guys recommend for triceps isolation work. Need to stress my left arm more than my right one because there is a huge imbalance.
>>
>>1017862
considering your weight and height, you may be better off starting with weights rather than bodyweight. there you can build strength while you lose weight and work on flexibility rather than having to lose weight first before doing bodyweight. and maybe by that time if you're still interested you can get into bodyweight. but your height and weight at the moment will make everything unreasonably difficult for you.

take it slow. you're 32 and out of shape but everyone's gotta start somewhere. weights definitely seem to be better for your goals.
>>
>>1017862
do pushups from standing position leaning into a wall.

Just make sure you lean in from a similar distance each time so you can track your progress, as you get to being able to do more reps, progressively move your feet back for an exaggerated lean.
Continue moving lower like this over an extended period of timing moving on to the next stage as you can do 10+ pushups at the current level.

Ideally you should be able to go from the wall, to a high table, to a lower table (the back of a couch say) to typical seat height, to the final floor push up.

good luck!
And great job to even make the choice to improve and grow!
>>
>>1011116
Most likely, yes, very different muscle emphasis.

>>1016797
As far as I know foundations was programmed exactly for us, mere mortals.

The program has a lot of intricacies in terms of progression which may seem confusing for people who do not have not been around the GB forums to ask the important questions.

As for the deck squat we can all agree on that it is not the most important exercise. However, I think it is question in the program as an exercise to detect bad ankle rom, build basic coordination and basic endurance strength.

>>1017862
GST exercises requires you to have or to build a high sense of body awareness for concepts like hollow body, protraction and depression - things that are more or less required in a push up. You just have to keep at it until you hit correct form.

I also find it hard to believe that you cannot perform even one push up. You are supposed to perform 5 x 15 while inclined. And even if 45 degrees of inclination is too hard then you have to do them against the wall, a taller object etc.

Flexibility is all about frequency and volume. You want to do limbering (soft stretching) almost daily) and when you do hard stretching you spend a fuckload of time in the different positions. That is how to stretch properly. As for hard stretching there is a link for 3 routines in the OP which should take 40 minutes each
>>
>>1017871
I have had this issue too, and I have found that the the solution in terms of body weight training is simply to step down the progressions, perform with perfect form and slowly make the left arm adapt. It is simply too hard to isolate a weakness (unless you have an experienced coach) because specifically targeting one side requires you to re-position a lot of muscles outside of the arm. This puts you in risk of developing new problems.
>>
>>1021128
>>1021134
>>1021422
Thanks!

I figured that if an exercise was hard and made my muscles sore etc, that's just part of working out. It might be uncomfortable, but it's not unhealthy. As long as I can do the exercise properly for at least a minimum volume (say, at least 3x 3 reps, or 15 seconds for a static exercise, all with decent form), I can just work through it, and at least feel happy that I did things right, and the situation will probably improve relatively soon.
But if an exercise is currently so hard that you can't even handle that basic volume with decent form, or if it hurts in a bad way (heavier muscle pain, joint pain, ...), it will be demoralizing and/or unhealthy, and not enough of a foundation for making improvements.
Which is why I thought that I needed easier versions of the exercises, or different easy exercises all-together, or dummy exercises just to learn the correct form, so I could build the required strength and flexibility and balance and form, in order to reach that basic volume to make the "normal" exercises rewarding and useful.

I'll look into basic weight exercises (would be dumbbells, instead of the barbell that the guys on /fit/ seem to prefer), and those easier push-up variants and stretching exercises etc. And leave the currently-too-advanced exercises for the future :)

As for not being able to perform one push-up : I can lower and raise my body a few times (though not really enough to reach my "basic volume" check of 3x3), I just can't keep my body straight while I'm doing even those first "fresh" reps, so I'm definitely failing the "good form" check.

I like the term "body awareness", I sort of had a vague notion of that in mind as part of what I meant when I talked about flexibility and balance and form. Not just being able to do it properly, but also having an innate sense of when you're doing it wrong (instead of having to constantly check reflection in window etc). Is that what you meant with it?
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can somebody explain me how to read this? escpecially the mastery templates bit?
>>
any ab exercises one can do if my hamstrings are super tight? doing the reddit bwf routine, but skipped the lsits because I hated them and had mobility problems.
>>
Is handstand important? I cant even do wall plank because of my fucked up mobility and totally weak hollow body. Is overhead pressing very important?
>>
Gymnastic twinks this stuff is for teenage cheerleaders LMAO
>>
>>1021432
fair enough, thanks
>>
>>1021744
Download Foundation 1, it is explained in 5 pages.
>>
>>1022724
i can't. my computer's too fucked up
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>>1022738
that is a fucking lie you lazy bastard, gtfo
>>
>>1022752
it's a torrent, right?
so i'd need a torrent-program to download it, right?
well, i don't have one installed and for some reason i can't install anything on this piece of shit laptop. if it was just a .pdf i wouldn't have a problem
>>
Should I do body weight exercises after lifting or on my rest days? Seems pretty obvious that I just want to add them after my barbell routine but I'd like to double check.
>>
Say when working core is it best to do 2-3 exercises for abs and 1-2 for lower back? How does this look for core work?


>abs
weighted Leg raises
incline sit ups
fl lever hold

>lower back
psuedo planche hold
weighted reverse hypers


>obliques
side plank raise
side plank holds
>>
>>1025521

would weighted leg raises and reverse hypers be superior assistance exercises compared to box Maltese holds, and Victorian box holds?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2HqG1J-3gU

Video related, something similar that im doing with leg raises.
>>
>>1021672
For the push ups you should be able to hold perfect form while doing them inclined. Then slowly work your way to the floor. Perhaps this is not what your ego wants, but it is the most effective way to do so.

When I talk about body awareness I mean being able to feel the correct and incorrect muscle activations for a certain exercise. Further increasing body awareness also means being able to feel individual muscle contract in a certain movement.

>>1021869
Stretch. If your hamstrings are tight you will never end up having a strong core. Start with the foundation exercises and follow the progressions while emphasizing stretching.

>>1022217
It is important for two reasons. The first one is that handstand leads to a great deal of other very rewarding exercises like press handstand, one arm handstand, handstand push up and hollow back press. If you cannot perform a handstand you can never reap the benefits of the more advanced exercises. The second one is that you have a┬┤discovered a weakness in your body that will lead to an imbalance later on if you do not fix it.

On an off note. If you cannot do a wall plank then planche work will be very slow. And if you cannot do a hollow hold front lever will be out of the question.

Basically, you are limiting yourself. What you should spend most time doing is fixing these weaknesses instead of only nurturing your strengths.

>>1022852
I am sorry but I see no way around it. If you do not even have a form reference you are fucked.

>>1022988
Depends. Body weight training might tax you as much as lifting so you really need to pay attention to your recovery ability.
>>
>>1025521
You need hollow body holds. pseudo planche holds does not work lower back, but rather abs and glutes.
>>
>>1025604

Hollow face up or down? i also work ghr and heavy deadlifts.

>>1025529

Could you answer this too plz alexx
>>
Good bicep tendon preparatory excercises?
>>
>>1027930
masturbation 2xdayx10years
>>
>>1022217
Bro, why would you even get in to calisthenics/gymnastics if you don't wanna do handstands? What the fuck ........................
>>
>>1025682
Hollow body holds facing up.

The linked video shows an easy-to-learn exercise with bad form. She needs to holds ppt for a lot longer time.

I would like to see videos of your full hanging leg raises on stall bars (or something similar - freehanging is way too easy) before I would comment on that. Reverse hyper extensions are harder to put weight on that just back extensions. When you perform around-the-world back extensions with ease then weighting them is a good idea.

Box maltese holds and victorian box holds are advanced skill work for the full exercises, and without proper preparation there is not benefits to gain from those exercise other than stroking one's ego.

>>1027930
Rows, straight arm plank progressions, biceps curls, pull ups, straight arm support holds. Those are some basics to get you started.
>>
For this kind of stuff, you need to be a lot leaner than for weightlifting. Well, strictly speaking you don't, but it generally comes with the flexibility and mobility etc.
I guess this means that long or heavy bulking/cutting cycles are a bad idea? Do you guys just alternate between slight surplus and slight deficit? I guess that requires pretty strict calorie counting?
>>
>>1031867
just do some fucking excersise you nerd
it's not space science lmao
>>
>>1030967

i see, not even tucked box victorian or maltese? Thanks m8
>>
>>956039

Weights are good so long as you lift them. but if you lifelong core strength, bodyweight. Also jucies you up mentally
>>
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First week of foundations 1 following the template of 4 days excersi. Current body.
24 years
60 kg >inb4 thanks mr skeletal
Can't do pull ups
Can do only 3 chin ups
Can do only 3 good push up( With bad form like 20)
Current diet
2000 - 2400 kal a day
I will post every 28 of each mont with a fucking photo in progression in here.
This will be my diary. I'm not seeking your approval or your advices. I will follow Foundations 1 to 4. Yeah it will took time. Let's if I can do it.
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>>1032544
Nope.
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holy shit im a rock climber and a pianist what have i stumbled upon. just the wrist prehab was fucking phenom. i can almost Lsit for 30 seconds im stoked to start foundation. this is incredible.
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>>1033370
>2000 - 2400 kal a day

too much if you're really only 60 kg
>>
>>1033370
Welcome on board friend! Looking forward to watching your progression. Don't be afraid to write down your thoughts on your training and asking for advice, we are happy to help. You could also post with a trip so it is easier for us to identify you.

I couldn't do 3 push ups with good form when i started but i could do about 20 with shit form just like you. I suspect that is the case for most people honestly. (i also didn't want to admit that and kept doing them with shitty form until i got shoulder pain. quality over quantity ALWAYS!)

You'll be in amazing shape next summer if you stick with it and do it meticulously. I hope you are doing Handstand 1 as well, as handstands is one of the best body weight exercises there is imo.

Cheers
>>
What kind of body can I expect from a basic bodyweight routine? 5'9", 200 lbs with no experience.
>>
>>1035392
images.google.com "male gymnast"
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>>1034053
I forgot where I read it (gymnasticbodies public forum I think) but there are rock climbers that use some gymnastics progressions in their training. From what I read, it's always going to be a decision between one or the other once you reach a certain point.

Enjoy your improvements in rock climbing. After applying gymnastics, climbers often feel like they've improved. Also, there doesn't seem to be any wrist/finger extensor work in the sticky so you might enjoy that too with some rubber bands and this as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU
>>
Handstand pushup question:

I have no problem lifting myself off the floor but finishing the movement is impossible. I can do only one with full ROM, and the rest are just partials. I stall about halfway up.

Weak shoulders? Weak triceps? Weak shoulders AND triceps?
>>
>>977984
>But we work in a world where we can only put so much time into our hobbies.

This is 4chan.

If he really wants to, he can use all the time he (or she) has.
>>
I started the "Starting Stretch" routine, but for the squat (even with legs wide and toes/knees pointing outwards), the deepest I can go while keeping my heels on the floor is about halfway between standing straight up, and having my upper legs parallel to the floor (and that's with my upper body leaning forward).
Pic related, the absolute best I can currently do is only slightly lower than the 2nd one.

Do I just keep doing it like that and will it work out eventually? Are there any auxiliary exercises I can add?

For some of the other exercises, I can't handle even the "beginner" version either (i.e. Standing Pike I can only get about finger-length from the floor even with my arms hanging straight down instead of pointing at my toes), and definitely not very long. But here for the squat, an uninformed observer would barely be able to guess what I'm trying to do :) So that's why I'm asking for some tips on this specific one...

Bonus question : when getting down to or up from the floor, my wrist or hand (thumb area mostly) hurts occasionally. Anything I can do to fix that in the long run (aside from just repeating it and causing pain in the short run)?
>>
Planche snapcity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZgxkE-2QAw

2:15

too lazy to gif it
>>
>>1037484

delete this
>>
>>978142

still here m8?
>>
How the fuck can people do a lifting routine AND Foundation? And how the fuck can they do that on the same day? My foundation workouts are about 1 hour to 40 - 50 minutes at this point. And doing that AND a lifting routine ON THE SAME DAY?

But JUST combining Foundation with a lifting routine is fucking much. Are you guys gifted with super athletic genes or something? Jeezus
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>>1038895
jesus this stuff's nasty.
>>
I used to be able to do 10s of pushups, more 10s of pushups if I gave myself breaks.
Now, I can only do 10 in a row, maybe 15 if I really push myself.

I used to be able to kick well above my head.
Now, I can only kick between my abdomen and chest, chest if I lean back.

I used to be able to walk miles upon miles.
Now, I'll need more than 2 recover days for my calves after walking 3 miles.

I used to be able to do 100 sit-ups in a row.
Now, I can only do 30.

I had CARDIO.
Now, I just have cardio.
>>
>>1038895
Mixed-grip deadlifts and bench presses, tearing bicep tendons and pecs since their invention.

You dont see any oly weightlifter pulling with mixed grip.
>>
>>1036458
Handstand 1 has plenty of wrist and finger conditioning for strength training, but perhaps it is not enough for climbing specifically.

>>1037127
Are you able to hold a freestanding straight handstand? Perhaps you arch your back, make a kip or somehow tilt your body?

A proper handstand push ups will require the most effort right at the start of the concentric part when you try to push up. The rest is purely balance.

I suspect you have bad form but a video will confirm/reject my hypothesis.

>>1041278
People should not do lifting and foundation in their entirety. Both will suffer because both you exhaust you too much performed correctly.

The foundation split should take 20-40 minutes AT MOST. You are resting too much if it takes 1 hour.
>>
>>1038895

should be in the op, so you guys know why we tell you to work on your connective tissue slowly.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06fGd0oLUrs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bihlndzv2Ho

More scared of tricep tears.
>>
>>1041621
>Are you able to hold a freestanding straight handstand? Perhaps you arch your back, make a kip or somehow tilt your body?
Wall-assisted, but often my legs leave the wall and I end up doing a free-standing pushup. Legs don't fall down, mind you, I can keep them straight up.

Can't say I do any kips. Today I did a couple of hspus, then couldn't finish reps again.

>A proper handstand push ups will require the most effort right at the start of the concentric part when you try to push up. The rest is purely balance.
I thought it might be because my triceps are fried from benching and I can't lock out since as far as I understand the movement, delts work more in the beginning, and then triceps finish it.

But maybe I just have shit form, yeah.
>>
>>1042034

1.why are you benching and doing hspu on the same day?
2.did you previously work negative reps before jumping into hspu?
3.can you get negative reps 5x5 or 3x10?
>>
>>1041621

Say could i work bent arm presses and hspu together to get a hang of free standing hspu?
>>
>>1041621
No, 2-3 minutes of rest between each set is perfectly fine.
>>
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What's your take on vertical sit-ups with Foundation 1? I want to do them for the reasoning here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYybClJ5Zk

and also because I don't have the equipment to do 45 degree decline sit-ups, just a playground. They also seem pretty fun. My hollow holds are currently at 4x36 and I can perform 5 vertical sit-ups with PPT, no neck-pulling. Planks are also pretty easy for me.

They seem pretty fun, useful, convenient, and not beyond my reach. Anything that should stop me from doing these?
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>>1043565
Yeah, I'm also not sure on this. What are the best rest times for Foundation purposes? I know Sommer strictly says to only take as much time as the iM but that has you getting 20-40 seconds of rest.

Reducing rest times is good for endurance while longer rest times are for strength goals. But endurance gains don't make you more capable at doing more difficult progressions because these are strength based.

I don't really see any point to the short rest times other than making workouts more convenient. Is the purpose for work capacity? If that's the case, progression will be slower than with longer rest times because it will take considerably more time to build up the capacity to do say, 5x60 planks with 30 seconds rest than 5x60 planks with 1-2 mins rest. Your workout will be shorter, but it will take you longer to progress. I can't really say which is better or why. I also don't see why you can't just start with longer rest times once you reach the specific elements and then shorten them later or why you'd want them shorter in the first place.

>tl;dr why the short rest times?
>>
can someone send a link of The Naked Warrior ,the link in the pastebin is dead.
>>
>>1043565
If you want to follow foundation by the word then the iM is the rest, no more. The program is structured around this approach.

No matter what program you follow 2-3 minutes of rest is retarded. I would agree that iM + 30-60s could work for some exercises, but resting more is pointless in any imaginable case.

You simply cannot build any work capacity if you rest that much. And if you have no work capacity you are poorly positioned to progress, once you add handstand and press handstand work, once you have to do all 7 foundation elements on all days, once the mobility elements require a little more strength to execute and once you reach harder strength elements.

Guess this is also an answer to >>1044183. I agree that it is not productive to rest 20-40s with an iM exercise that targets the same muscle group as the one that you are working.

>>1042346
I would focus primarily on handstand work first, and then at the same time start from the bottom with push up variations to dip variations to inverted pushing variations.

Doing both horizontal presses and vertical presses without having a solid base of strength would be too much for most people.

>>1044146
I do these 3 times a week with and 1-2 sets of straddle ups as skill work. It takes a clever mind to work these into a foundation workout because they overlap with both manna progress and front lever progress. It is a very good strength builder but due to the tight position you still need to work straight leg compression exercises and full hollow body exercises. I do not have the bench either but I do these with my feet stuck under the lowest bar of a stall bar setup.
>>
>>1044549
>No matter what program you follow 2-3 minutes of rest is retarded.
And the most retarded thing posted on 4chan as of today has just been posted. Congratulations on proving just how clueless you are. Get off your high horse and stop pretending you know so much because you really fucking don't.
>>
>>1037484
Sorry to get back to my noob question here, but I came across some sources suggesting to people like me to put something under their heels, in order to allow going deeper, while still being able to put weight on the heels (which would normally not be possible as we can't keep them on the ground).
Is this a good idea? It obviously allows more squatting immediately, but does it slow down progress to proper no-help squatting?
>>
How much do dips work the lats? Assuming your hands are on a flat surface behind you and you keep your arms at the same level of tension throughout (I.e you take your tris out of the equation and your hands being behind you means your pecs arent a part of it) then surely the only muscular group which could be responsible for bringing your shoulders down and pushing you up is your lats right?
>>
>>1044650
Good counter-point. I made my argument, and if you want to prove me wrong feel free to present your points in a constructive way. I simply refuse to listen to some teenage-like whining without anything to back it up.

>>1044793
I dislike that method. Basically you try to compensate for bad ankle flexibility and cheat yourself to more depth. Because if you look at the angle in your knees when squatting with/without ankle support it should remain the same.

My advice is to work on ankle flexibility first.

>>1045013
When you depress your shoulders you activate the lats so dips work the lats fairly well. The lower trap fibers and pec minor are also quite active.
>>
>>1045351
Different anon here, I feel like you can work ankle flexibility whilst performing the cheat squats. The cheat squats provide a way to work on everything that your squat is lacking in a time efficient manner, instead of working hip, ankles, calves etc all separately and achieving a full squat very slowly.

Also, I don't see them doing any harm because you're accommodating for your flexibility and not forcing anything - although I say this because I'm wondering if that's even right, and I'm thinking you could enlighten me if not
>>
>>1044549
>>1044650

https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/comments/2jzhmw/concept_wednesday_rest/ seems to have a decent answer on rest.

>No matter what program
is where Alex is wrong since that depends entirely on the athlete's goals, which is more of a moot point since it's implied that gymnastics is the goal.

The most important thing seems to be consistency. If you rested longer than last week's workout then you didn't improve. Conditioning is important for gymnastics but starting out with longer rest times then cutting them shorter seems to work just as fine. But having a consistent rest time of 2 or 3 minutes doesn't look like a bad idea so long as it's consistent. I mean, moving up in progressions is obviously going to improve work capacity itself. When it gets too difficult to do all the elements, I don't see why you can't just start with long rest times, focus on form, and then shorten rest times as you improve. Rest times feel like a small thing to be worried about, so long as they are consistent since you can easily build work capacity.
>>
>>1045418
They are not doing any harm, but they do no good either in terms of improving ankle flexibility. I would make ankle flexibility a priority first, but as long that is your primary focus you can do whatever squats you like, but that is just my opinion. As long as you know that elevated ankles is basically cheating.

I am also guessing that the "cheat squats" would prove to be a bad thing if you ever go heavy on them. Just a guess.

>>1045733
I talking in the body weight strength training context.

You miss out on a lot of benefits if you do not address work capacity. A lot of advanced elements require significant time under tension, and to add to that the advanced elements have so many finesses that you need to address separately. Without having the capacity to address these finesses you make the learning curve much longer.

An example is the planche. You need to train balance, protraction, depression, ppt, toe point, bent legs/straight legs, pressing into the planche, side split flexibility (passive/active), strength, elbow prehab, dynamic planche exercises... These are just those I can mention off the top of my head.

Many people train for the planche in a very linear way with frogstands to tuck planche to adv. tuck to straddle to full planche. Each progression has its limitations in terms of what you train and what the requirements are before you can correctly hold the position.

Take a beginner as an example. They need basic strength so they have to do bent/straight arm planks and planche leans first. Balance they get from frogstands. Side split flexibility from separate stretching and mobility like swivel hips. ppt by doing straddle holds/donkey kicks. Planche lean presses from straight arm plank to planche lean and back again for body awareness, skill work and strength. I could go on...

And then we have the time efficiency point. All above mentioned planche work could take 20 minutes instead of 60 minutes.

cont
>>
>>1045733
>>1046475
cont.

In the light of what I mentioned above I do believe it is a mistake to have too much rest time. You simply either miss out on too much supplemental/specific work or you spend 3 hours at the gym every day instead of 1. If anyone is serious about getting to an intermediate/advanced level in terms of body weight strength training you HAVE to cut down the rest time as soon as possible.

I agree about your point about consistency, but I value consistency in following a superior approach to strength training rather than following an inferior approach. In the end it turns out to be an ideological/ego problem and/or a lack of understanding the discipline you want to excel in.
>>
I might add my planche work here. It is a part of a larger workout.

First I do my balancing in a frogstand for 10-20s of 1-2 sets and warm up my wrists and fingers.

Then I do 5 x 20s planche lean and some pressing back and forth there. I do swivel hips in between. Sometimes I also do straddle planche leans.

I have a flexibility routine for side split outside of my strength work. I am not yet advanced enough to do dynamic work, bent arm planche work.

A lot of my of other exercises in the workout involves ppt in some way.

I rest with iM + a water break sometimes. It took some time to work up to, had a sickness + separate feet surgeries and wrists problems. Despite that I still got very far. I contribute that to doing a lot of different planche exercises quite often for optimal nervous stimulation.
>>
Hey guys, can someone link me to a very in-depth form breakdown of hanging leg raises?

Specifically, how far behind is my ass allowed to retract? If not at all, how to achieve this?

Is tightening up my shoulders just before lifting my legs cheating? If I try to keep everything tight just before the eccentric phase, then my ass goes too far behind is my problem.
>>
>>1046620
Hanging leg raises should be performed with back support like from stall bars or a partner pushing you forward to minimize lat involvement. I would say that freehanging leg raises are 3 times as easy as the ones with back support strength wise and they require less flexibility.
>>
>>1046632

how important is it, if I don't really see myself having an access to the right equipment anytime soon?
>>
I need some advice, and I prefer bodyweight to weights so I'll ask here.

I need to cut 20 pounds by May (or as close to 20 as possible), what advice do anons have in terms of workouts? I was thinking of doing a deck of pain type deal, really basic ad focusing on main compound movements, with 4 sets of tabata sprint intervals on the off days. Any advice is appreciated.
>>
>>1046649
I guess I should say what workouts would you guys advise in addition to controlling diet.
>>
>>1046770

if your only goal is to lose weight, anything will do

you want a bit more than 500kcal deficit daily, you can get away with just eating what you eat and taking a fast paced walk 1-2 hours a day (weight dependent)
>>
>>1046778
Well I'm 190 and I need to lose for air force basic training. They have a sit up and push up quota that I already meet, and I need to get my mile and a half time down but I have a fair amount of extra weight.
>>
Damn, i re-write post like 12 times already. It's so much info and everything is so complicated and new to me and i have so many questions and i don't even know where to start.
>>
>>1046793

then run and do an endurance-based pushup/situp routine (nothing like we do here, which mainly targets strength)

>>1046832

don't make it more complicated than it is brah, won't do you any good to wait until you know "everything" - go with startbodywieght.com or reddit's routine, learn on your mistakes as you go

hell, I started with Convict fucking Conditioning and it was still better than nothing (sort of)
>>
>>1046857
Would you recommend those 100 push ups and 200 sit up apps they have? I remember seeing them but never looked into them
>>
What do you guys know about those 100 push up programs?
>>
>>1046485
I can hold a tuck planche for about 5sec, how do you think I should program my planche training, I guess I should keep doing leans right?
>>
>>1046857
Oh, i actually heard a lot about Convict Conditioning. What makes it so bad?

I already has established routine now, i can do pretty much everything from startingbodyweight.com with little to no trouble. My problem right now is amount of new stuff in GST and the fact that i don't know what or how all this things into my workouts. I'm confused by some exercises because i had a spinal cord surgery and i'm not sure my back will be able to handle it and it ruins progression.
I'm mostly intrested in core strenght\stability and balance.
>>
>>1046645
Very important. A playground latter, a rail sticking out for a wall or perhaps even a stairwell with a grab-able rail and back support. Hanging leg raises are very important in terms of building compression strength.

But for now you can work on sit up variations reaching as high as possible. First tucked, then straddle and then pike ups.

Perhaps you can also work on L-sits but my estimate is that very few people can efficiently go that route without having trained hanging leg raises.

>>1046832
On a day off download handstand 1 and foundation 1. Spend some hours reading through it. Write your questions down. Pay very close attention to the form demonstrated in the pictures. Attempt a few workouts and then return to us with your questions. That is my best advice for you.

>>1047292
5s seconds is way too little. Even if you could hold 30s seconds you would still need supplementary work where you really use your core and have legs straight.

Yes, go ahead with the leans. Perhaps post a form check. 4/5 people do these with substantial form issues. As a reference it took me 4 months before I could perform them to a gold standard. If you have additional capacity/time you should also go with some stretch of internal/external hip rotation and some more specific ppt work.

>>1047333
Appreciated. Threads are going down the pages very far, and all the generals are flooding the board along with shitposting threads.

>>1047509
>because i had a spinal cord surgery and i'm not sure my back will be able to handle it and it ruins progression.
I'm mostly intrested in core strenght\stability and balance.

As I wrote above; start those programs. The whole focus of them is to hammer down perfect form and rep requirements are overly strict so that very very few people can injure themselves. It is also a philosophy of the programs to build the body from the core and out and hammer away all imbalances before attempting the more cool but also potentially dangerous exercises.
>>
>>1047544
Thanks for the answer! I've already did some stuff today and gonna attempt one more workout and return with more questions later.
>>
Anyone want to see how i combined lifting and gymnastics in a Texas method format?
>>
>>1047710
Sure. It would be nice if you put it in a format that could be saved easily like a pdf or doc.
>>
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Anybody who has any tips for shoulder impingement? It's not bad enough to call it an injury, but I've matured enough to stop all arm workouts and nip it in the bud. Self-diagnosed but I followed multiple tests as best as possible and they were all positive while other tests were negative, so I'm sure it's an impingement.

I've already looked at Naterman's shoulder pain stretches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnAsnVNh0C0 and I've also looked at Kit's rotator cuff series. I'm also eliminating bad posture habits like slouching. The cause I can somewhat guess since I did internally rotate during pull-ups and didn't keep my shoulders back for a good time before fixing it, as well as dips with shoulders shrugging.

What other things can I do now? Rows with active retraction seem like they would help in impingement. And can I keep chin-ups as well? I also have no pain in half L-sits.

>inb4 doctor
college budget
>>
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>>1048032
Actually, I think swinging around in the monkey bars caused my impingement. It seems the most likely since I do it frequently and have no marker for good form since I'm just dicking around. My body also turns around a bit when I'm holding on one arm. Now I'm carrying bodyweight with one arm, internally rotating, and since I'm left-handed with a stronger grip there I put more force on that arm - BAM. Impingement in the left shoulder. Well not really instant but gradual. But adding to that wall handstands, some history of bad pull-up and dip form, bad seated posture for long periods of time, and no rows, it must have been inevitable.

The pain is in internal rotation and going overhead, so no more of that. Thank God I have the foresight to smother it in its crib. If I were younger I would've kept going and ended up like one of those horror stories where guys can't raise their arms anymore and have all sorts of tears.

So, anybody wanna test their pet theories on shoulder anatomy? I don't mind being a guinea pig so long as the advice isn't retarded. I'm actually enjoying my pre-injury. It's taught me a lot.

Anybody else doing gymnastics on their own? I think everybody's got some good stories at this point.
>>
>>1048020

heh it's not worthy of that, plus im not too familiar how to do that
>>
>>1048120

TX method ML style, note this is a routine i made specifically for my goals, the exercises may be changed in order of importance to you. The body weight movements are progressed week to week using the foundation format. If you would like me to go in depth more plz rsp.


>Volume day
Muscle Snatch + drop SN 8x2
deficit snatch pull 6x3
front squat 5x5
HSPU 4x4
Rope pull-ups 4x4


>Recovery day
full Snatch 6x2
pause squat 3x3
Bench press 3x8
DB Seal row 3x8
GHR 3x10

>Intensity day
Muscle snatch 1x3
Deadlift 1x5
Front Squat 1x5
HSPU 4x4
Rope 4x4


>Acessory work split done 2x out the week
psuedo planche static work
front lever static work
weighted planks
dragon flag static work
weighted reverse hypers
weighted leg raises
Side plank static work
side plank legs off bench static work


Other accessory work like weighted mobility if worked as a warm-up
>>
>>1048138

Should bw athletes train bench with an arch like powerlifterS?
>>
>>1048138
Rest times, prehab, height and weight?

How's your snatch? Stuff looks damn scary.

I see planche is going to be a long way for you. I wonder if anyone's been able to do planches AND heavy squats.
>>
>>1048349

Ill type it tomorrow, fitness FAQs does like 300 pound front squats and can straddle planche. However he weighs something like 190 pounds, and i weigh close to 215. Planche is a goal but for now i want the elevator.
>>
>>1048366
Sounds like you'll get there quick.

Looking forward to it.
>>
>no simple pictograph that shows all excersise progressions for a year or more to not have to come around for a while
get on that dorks
>>
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>>1048665
>pictures
>not videos with multiple camera angles and key pointers for form

enjoy your injuries

foundation has videos in different angles and even that isn't enough. there would probably have to be a paragraph for each exercise and stretch just so you know what you're doing.
>>
I'm about to start up the reddit bodyweight routine, and need to find a stretching routine to use for flexibility and cool down. The only one I know of is Starting Stretching on Phraktured, but it's long as fuck. Is there a shorter stretching routine I can use that still works my whole body?
>>
>>1048349

Height 5'11 - 6ft
rest times 2-4 min depends
snatch is ok, muscle snatching to get down form

>>1048450

Inverted muscle up is going to take like another two years haha.
>>
>>1048349

I do my prehap as a warm-up along with static work.

weighted dislocated
internal rotations
shrug variations
and pull over privatizations
wrist push-ups
knee prehab
hip prehab
hip circle squats
ect
>>
>>1049676

check op bruh

>https://kickass.to/gb-stretch-course-front-split-wildturkey00-pdf-2015-ubtrg-t10296049.html
>>
>>1047544
>Yes, go ahead with the leans. Perhaps post a form check. 4/5 people do these with substantial form issues. As a reference it took me 4 months before I could perform them to a gold standard. If you have additional capacity/time you should also go with some stretch of internal/external hip rotation and some more specific ppt work.

thanks, what arm angle do you consider to be a gold standard? can you clarify what ppt work means?

>Threads are going down the pages very far, and all the generals are flooding the board along with shitposting threads.

seriously, fuck wrestling
>>
best way to train l-sit if I can hold it tucked for 20 sec? should I train compression every day?
>>
>>1051769
youtube dan jeong conditioning. he'll give you a bunch of prerequisites that'll make L-sit progression smoother.

dedicated stretching routines once or twice a week will help. can you do the toe touch with your palms and not just your fingers? pike progressions will help.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzkSPtt5ExU

PPT leg raises, eventually want to add weight to these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRdNOSUMGbM

An idea i have on intensifying reverses hypers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Uss53PmYY

Inverted muscle-up mimicked by weights


Thoughts Alex?
>>
>>1044256
don't even bother. it's shit
>>
Any ideas on reducing lower back pain? I think it's chronic by now; I'm only 24 :(
Arch holds and reverse plank seem to help temporarily.

>>1052809
>Inverted muscle-up mimicked by weights
that's a curl + OHP. You're not imitating the lat or triceps involvement in either the HAPU or muscle up.
>>
>>1052987

Lmao, you're funny man.
>>
>>1052987

>":( "in post
>"You're not imitating the lat or triceps involvement"

Prove to me you know what you're talking about, do you even bio mechanics bro?
>>
>>1052809
why mimic muscle-ups with weights when you can do pull-ups and parallel bar dips?
>>
>>1053858

Lmaooooooooo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVNuk2Qq194
>>
>>1053832
tbqh I ain't got shit to prove pal
go ahead and do your alternative, and when you see no real improvement after three months, start the real muscle up progression
>>
>>956039
I'm a 5'5 grill, 65kg will I make it? I just want to be lean and fit.
>>
>>1053998
my bad. missed the "inverted" part
>>
>>1054155
b u e n o s a i r e s
u
e
n
o
s

a
i
r
e
s
>>
>>1048032
Pull ups with internal rotation are my nemesis. Avoid them at all cost. What helped me a lot was trap stretching and the first rope climb progression in F1.

>>1049825
Hands at hips level. PPT = posterior pelvic tilt, hollow body, flattening the lower back.
>>
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>>1054091

Not sure if trolling but ill godhead and clarify. I train handstand push-ups atm, this is and assistance exercise im using to mimic

>>1053998

I posted the video to get the opinion on Alex as to if my form is on point, furthermore if you are implying that no triceps are used in the movement you have shown to me you don't know what you're talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQmM7zdNtYA

Above is a video from SP where that dude sam has a decent demonstration of this around the 2:40 mark, don't watch the rest it's bro science.

>>1052987

As far as your back pain you can try several things.

1. decompress by doing bar hangs/reverse hypers
2. strengthen it with glute back bridges/reverse hypers
3.ice and rest it
4.http://www.mayoclinic.org/symptom-checker/low-back-pain-adult/related-factors/itt-20009075

Be more specific when trying to ask fro help, just a head up we are not doctors.
>>
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>>1054388
Do you still get any pain from your shoulders or does it just get less noticeable? My problem appears to be supraspinatus, and not subscapularis but I can't be sure. And I can't tell if it's just overuse, imbalance, or a tear. Right now I'm actually surprised at how much I ended up learning about the shoulder.
>>
>>1054547
It was inhibited supraspinatus for me. Basically my traps did all the work. I have tight chest, traps and biceps too. It would most likely be a muscular inhibition and/or a muscular imbalance. Tears mostly happen if you push through the pain for a longer period of time with cell degeneration. An injury might have triggered your bad form though, and it is possible that this injury have not healed yet.

But this is only guesswork. Have it checked by a physiotherapist.
>>
>>1052809
>PPT leg raises, eventually want to add weight to these

They have limited range of motion in comparison to other compression exercises like hanging leg lifts. Therefore I believe that is a bad idea.

>An idea i have on intensifying reverses hypers

What is your point with this video? It is either a poorly performed planche exercise with no carryover or a kipping reverse hyper extension. The kip basically means less strength potential.

>Inverted muscle-up mimicked by weights

The muscle up cannot be mimicked by weights for a lot of reasons. First of all you do not condition the elbows, second you do not learn the skill part, third resistance distribution is entirely different, forth the very hard transition phase is being avoided completely... And so on.

But why even use weights for exercises that are skills? Do some pull ups, some dips, support holds and false grip exercise. No need to complicate a simple skill.

>>1052987
Oblique stretches, glute activation exercises, hip flexor stretches, ppt exercises, pike stretches, thoracic spine extension, focus on posture, avoid excessive spinal extension.
>>
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>>1054893
>Have it checked by a physiotherapist.
>tfw third-world uni student
>only middle class in developing country

Time to learn. Wish me luck.
>>
Guys if it comes to plank on rings should my forearm touch ring? I noticed how the strap is sometimes grinding into my skin
>>
>>1055010
It is very hard to assess a shoulder injury. What we do know is that perform pull ups wrong and dips wrong.

So for pull ups without external rotation and retraction you must strengthen lower traps, middle traps, rhomboids, infraspinatus and teres minor, perhaps also deltoids. Basically the posterior chain. You need to stretch all the front side muscles; you mentioned shrugged shoulders in dips so especially pec minor, but also the rest of the chest, anterior delts, upper traps and sternocleidomastoideus. Massage of the neck muscles will help. Also look into Kit Laughlin's neck series on youtube.

>>1055459

Everything on the rings should be performed with rings turned out (biceps facing away from you) without any contact with the straps. Planks on the rings are quite taxing on the brachialis and the biceps. Be very careful. Perhaps post a form check of your normal planks first?
>>
>>1054945
>>1054945


Alex please tell me you know what an inverted muscle up is. aka Elevator.

I started off with a reverse hyper rep, then scooted down a bit and tried to do it again with a hold, and then scooted down further and tried to hold again, which is where i obviously failed. If i get my positioning right i don't see why it's not a great planche accessory movement which can be progressed.

I want to do hanging leg raises but i got no stall bars to do them on.


Alex please tell me you know what an inverted muscle up is. aka Elevator.


>>1054398

Refer to this as to why im doing the movement.
>>
>>1048032
>any tips for shoulder impingement

if it's really bad, acromioplasty surgery is the only thing that will help

...and if it's that bad, without the acromial decompression, chances are almost 100% that you will develop at least a supraspinatus tear at some point, no matter what you do (or don't do)

>I'm sure it's an impingement.

unfortunately there's no such thing as "sure" when it comes to rotator cuff / shoulder injuries... small injuries might be agonizingly painful, massive tears might be almost completely asymptomatic, and vice versa and everything in between

the "empty can", "lift off", etc. shoulder tests are really, really unreliable, especially in young and physically strong patients

ultrasound is pretty cheap these days, and even though it isn't 100% reliable, it is good enough to detect at least the most serious rotator cuff injuries if there are any
>>
>>1056016
d e l u s i o n
>>
>>956039


I just started reading this, but i have to ask. Will i ever "overcome gravity" if i'm a girl and i'm about 195 cm? would i need steroids to do cool shit?
>>
>>1056245
you could've read the whole first three posts and found this:

>All gymnasts are manlets, am I too tall to do bodyweight?
You can still do bw, but the taller you are (go and play basketball, bruh!) the harder it will be.
https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/18457-motivation-for-the-taller-guys/
>>
Can you do planks with palms facing backwards for elbow and biceps conditioning? They're easier than planche leans.
>>
>>1055689
No pain for me in rows, push-ups, chin-ups, l-sits, planks, fish (bodyline), and even shoulder dislocates and planche leans. However, internal rotation in any of these causes pain. More so when hands are overhead. Handstands and arch body holds with the hands overhead cause pain. The pain is specifically at the front of the deltoid. I won't resume any arm workouts except for rows and chin-ups with emphasis on retraction and external rotation. I'll also do dip shrugs and scapular shrugs for depression and protraction. Deadlifts also feel pretty nice. I'm assuming there's no way to work on elevation without some risk. Rotator cuff exercises with proper form, rotator cuff stretches with no pain, massages, and proper posture will also be part. It's been almost a week since the pain started however I have not implemented my routine fully.

>>1056163
In any case, surgery is the last resort and even then doesn't appear to be better than non-surgical treatment (Wikipedia, didn't check sources though). Also can't trust doctors where I am. The costs add to the difficulty. And if ultrasound doesn't pick up anything, then they'd be putting me on a similar cookie-cutter routine anyway.

I'll take it as a gamble. It's my body so I'll be the only one to own up to it if I fuck up. Thanks for the advice though. Helps me be more cautious. I hope it fixes itself soon.
>>
>>1056016
>Alex please tell me you know what an inverted muscle up is. aka Elevator.

Sorry, I missed the inverted part. But that only reinforces my point. Weight training cannot replicate the necessary balance, tissue load, skill portion and weight distribution of the inverted muscle up. Best thing you can do are still pull ups and dips. It takes many years to get to the inverted muscle up, even if you follow the best possible way to get there.

Planche requires a straight back, not an arched back, which is obviously what you do in your exercise. Furthermore, you are using a pull in your shoulders to keep your body in place, not a push. There is very little carryover from that exercise.

Instead of trying to be creative you should follow regular progressions to the skills you want to master, progressions that are proven to work. There is not shortcut for ring skills with weight training.
>>
>>1059014
>surgery is the last resort and even then doesn't appear to be better than non-surgical treatment

I've read those studies too, but their problem is that the majority of treated rotator cuff cases are in patients well over 50-60 years of age.

Conservative treatment for an older patient who is looking forward to 10-20 years of a largely sedentary lifestyle can be very effective and have "good results", but conservative treatment for a young patient who's still going to need to use their shoulder for work and sports for decades is another matter entirely.

If you're under 30 years of age, though, you probably don't have to worry too much. Impingement-induced degerative tears very rarely have had time to yet develop in that age. But if you're over 30 and you have had repetetive shoulder pains, you should get your shoulders checked.

I've had a RC tear in my shoulder fixed recently, and my surgeon told me that the youngest patient he's done an acromioplasty on (the acromial decompression surgery for impinged shoulder) was a 13 year old boy who was a competitive swimmer.
>>
>>1059571
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3UJCZbVekMaYmFNOEdwbzgtUDA/view?usp=sharing Here is my plank on rings(3rd set). I havent tried turning out, i think i am to weak for it so i started without turning. The strap is kinda grinding in to my skin. Sorry for potato quality
>>
>>1060039
That video is close to useless. I new a sideways view with the entire from of your body to see rings stability, turnout, daylight between the straps and the arms, straight arms and protracted shoulder blades.
>>
>>1060155
*I need... entire frame...
>>
>>1060159
You trying to fap Alex?
>>
>>1060159
I can see an arm and i think its most important part of my question
>>
>>1056245
>i'm a girl and i'm about 195 cm
holy shit
>>
>>1059571

Nothing wrong with getting creative, i understand that i should master the wheel before tampering with it. Im just playing around with possible accessory movements that nobody has thought about using to possibly geese the goove. Working handstands, handstand push-ups, and curling shoulder press does all together does not sound all that crazy.
>>
>>1059571

I suppose i should just stick to dragon flags, and planks for core accessory work then?
>>
>>1059884
I'm 19. I get the difference between underuse in older people and how it might just be a long bone spur. It would be a load off my shoulders if it were just the acromion. I'll get it checked on May if it's still gonna be bothering me. I've read that it isn't really the kind of injury that needs to be fixed as soon as it occurs, and I won't be doing anything aggravating it anyhow.

At the moment, I'm going through Fix My Shoulder Pain by Rick Kaselj. He's gotten pretty decent reviews. His masters thesis was on the rotator cuff and he appears credible so far. Since he works with people who normally get injured doing resistance movement, I figure his knowledge would be more relevant. Pete Egoscue had more of a sedentary audience so he normally gives out simple strengthening exercises and posture. Kit Laughlin has given some good stretches though.

I'm against surgery because
>always has risks. misdiagnoses/falsepositive/falsenegative and permanent effects if done incorrectly. riskier here in third world country
>expensive. testing then surgery then rehab
>doable alternatives exist when done correctly
>pain isn't unbearable. just this sore pain in affected ROM. also has this numb nerve-like feeling like when that spot beneath your elbow hits a desk
>currently am not debilitated. I can do Foundation pretty much pain free if I don't rotate internally, just not Handstand.

But if nothing helps then that's that.
>>
what is gb pro?
>>
>>1060418
No, I need to be able to spot shoulder protraction and depression, ppt and foot position.

>>1061194
Believe me that many people have been asking questions of weighted progressions for planche training. I am not saying that you are like them but most people lack the ability to stick to conventional (and boring) training methods and instead they try to shortcut around what needs to be done.

>>1061197

Can I have a form check on your hollow holds first? Dragon flags are usually performed with arched back which makes them close to useless in terms of progressively adding core strength for exercises like front lever and harder variations.

>>1062454
A monthly subscription with access to follow-along videos and a more individualized workout planner, in addition to your copies of F1/H1. Furthermore you get access to the online classes
>>
>>1061547

>>1061547

At age 19 you probably don't have tears, at least not in the rotator cuff. The labrum etc. might be another story but that's slightly less serious.

But, just as a warning:

I'm in my 30ies. I had a tiny partial tear of the supraspinatus and had non-surgical treatment for it. The tear developed into a nearly inoperable total tear (supraspinatus completely off the bone and split in two up to the glenoid level) in under 18 months. And even at that point, I had full ROM and hardly noticeable decrease in strength.

So be careful. Medical science still isn't THAT good.
>>
>>1062603
Thanks for the advice man.
>>
>>1058969
Bump.
>>
>>1054945
>avoid excessive spinal extension
kinda hard considering that in this field of athletics of ours most skills starting with the l-sit require lumbar extension. thanks for the help, and yes, the glutes seem to be a main issue here, I tried doing the pancake split today and felt the ass extremely tight
>>
>>1063426
>kinda hard considering that in this field of athletics of ours most skills starting with the l-sit require lumbar extension

It was in relation to planche lean. Still try to avoid it as much as possible for the lumbar part. For L-sits as soon as you can ppt you can do so. The dangerous part of lumbar spinal extension is the repetitive back-and-forth flexion-extension cycle
>>
Weightlifting supposedly helps prevent osteoporosis, does that also apply (to the same degree) for bodyweight training?
>>
>>1066364
Yes, but it is highly dependent upon which exercises that you perform. Having a healthy bone density is often connected to properly scaled high impact sports like parkour, gymnastics, MMA and sprinting and maximal strength training.

The keyword is to put the joints under a certain amount pressure. Too little and you will see no difference. Too much and will injure yourself or wear the connective tissue down.

Current scientific literature suggests that jumping down 30 cm or higher from a chair to the floor as a daily activity strengthens the bones. Professional sprinters have also been known to have stronger and more flexible bones, especially tibia/fibula, femur and the spine. Shaolin monks are also them for their incredibly flexible and strong bones.

If we look at the studies we come back to the conclusion that just the right amount pressure applied in a healthy way will strengthen the bones.

As for body weight training I believe the straight arm work scaled correctly will give you super-healthy elbows and wrists, the programs in the OP will also provide plenty of knee/ankle prehab. You probably need some dynamic movements to really strengthen the bones of the spine and generally the lower body
>>
>>1066364
You might want to look into vitamin D, vitamin K, calcium, iron, zinc, and magnesium supplements. Cardio also improves BMD and reduces fractures compared to non-impact cardio like cycling and swimming.
>>
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>almost at master rep for human flag, front lever and rope climb
>mastered pistol squat and back lever on rings
>can just barely nail a tuck planche with proper form
brehs...
>>
What is a progression I can use for ring pushups? I'm doing them as my main chest exercise really for a bigger chest. (I do olympic weightlifting for everything else).

Also, can someone point me to a good progression for pistol squats? I think it's more likely a strength/stability issue than mobility.

I can't even start with what GMB recommends (from the ground up).
>>
so, i ve got a very flat chest. I ve always been very weak in term of chest strenght but i ve always compensated using my back, my shoulders and my arms. When i used to train at my gym i hardly ever got over my body weight (65kg) at the bench press, and when i do push ups i can t get over 15 reps (i usually do 3 sets with 30 sec cooldown ).

My question is, if i started training my chest doing push ups every day with different excercises, would i be able to increase at least my strenght to go up at minimum 100 reps in a row given enough time?
Also, would my chest increase in dimensions to be able to keep up with an increase of reps or to get a bigger chest i have no other choice then to lift weights that excede my body weight?
If i trained every day would my chest increase in dimensions or would it stay the same but just get harder and harder?
>>
>>1067912
Doing 100 push ups is endurance and not strength. It will add some definition to your chest, but honestly not a whole lot. It won't do much for your overall strength because the only way to gain strength is to progressively overload the muscles. This means you need to consistently increase the resistance being moved.

That's why we talk about progressions to more and more difficult body weight moves. In the case of push ups there are lots of options. One arm push up, rings push ups, planche, etc.
>>
>>1067838
I just did it by sitting down on a high chair and getting back up again using only one leg, as soon as I could do that I took a lower chair, and so on.
>>
>>1067838
If you cant do a ring push up in your knees then you shouldn't be using rings yet. Start on the floor (or a chair, table, or wall) until you can do 3x8 diamond push ups. Then you'll be ready for rings.
>>
I'm weakshit and can't even do a leg assisted l-sit. Is there any progression before that or do I just keep struggling with this along with other core/arm exercises until I get it?
>>
>>1068129
Do them on parallel bars or on a stack of books or something.
>>
>>1068129
Seated leg lifts for core strength and hamstring mobility and support holds for shoulder strength. Just to keep it simple.

The best way however is in my opinion to go through sit up variations, stretch the hamstrings, do straight arm planks and planche leans for shoulder strength, leg lifts as skill work. If you master all of the above-mentioned aspects you should have no problems with L-sit
>>
>>1067912
try chest dips. they'll most probably work. and don't do push-ups everyday since you won't be giving yourself enough time to recover. either you'll be too tired from yesterday and won't make any gains because you're supposed to rest, or your connective tissue will give like your elbows and shoulders.

of course, there is a difference between upper and lower pecs but i don't know a lot about hypertrophy to begin with. stick to 5x12 rep ranges with 1-2 mins rest times.
>>
I've been training for over a year now with good results. But my lower back is significantly lagging behind the rest of my body.

As a result I'm beginning back lever training (skin the cats right now). Am I corrected in believing that my scapula should be protracted and depressed in back lever movements?

Thanks.
>>
>>1022262
I could probably break you with one arm.
>>
>>1035392
Somewhere between twink faggot and girly boipussy faggot
>>
>>1046479
I would argue that if you're ready for another set in 60 seconds, you're not working out with enough intensity.

Sometimes I take ten minutes rest because that is the difference between having a shit set with four reps and a good set with a full 8-10 reps.
>>
>>1074138
Yes you are.

I must say that back lever training might be dangerous for unprepared athletes in the long run. Quite a few strong athletes have had their biceps tendon partially or completely torn.

Also, back lever does not work the lower back. Performed correctly with ppt you should feel the tension in the glutes and abs.

Body weight exercises for the lower back would be back extensions and reverse hyperextensions. With body weight training do not get significant hypertrophy in the lower back until you hit later press handstand variations and side lever variations. I recommend deadlifts, weighted squat or single leg squat variations for lower back.

>>1074196
>I would argue that if you're ready for another set in 60 seconds, you're not working out with enough intensity

Depends on my current work capacity, recovery ability, muscle fiber composition, the exercise itself and what I want to gain from the exercise. When I do my last set (4-5 sets) I am on the brink of mental breakdown.

I happen to have a good work capacity although I worked hard to achieve it. I respond well to low rest and low time under tension. But we are all different.

With that said 10 minutes of rest is way too much, and I might bring up the point that if you need 10 minutes of rest you are out of bounds of terms of your current level of strength. Even with 1RM rep training 2-3 minutes is the absolute max. Another point is that it is definitely not very time-efficient.

In my opinion you need to go back and work with smaller rest periods. I am not trying to say exactly how much rest time you will need, but anything above 3 minutes does not fit any strategy
>>
how do you guys get the mobility/balance to cossack squat? I can't manage it
>>
K. newfag here. I've been doing strenght raining for 2 years and I want to switch to bw. I read what's posted here. My question is: will I look better if I follow startbodyweight or foundation/handstand ?

also, why is startbodywieght.com site not working?
>>
>>1074428
Either programs will cause hypertrophy. In foundation you start slower and explode once you have mastered the basics. startbodyweight has you at medium hypertrophy all the way. The good looks are due to genetics, muscle hypertrophy will only enhance so to say your physique.

No idea about the last question.

But welcome here. I recommend F1 and H1 for a healthier body, more impressive skills in the long run and more intelligent design.

>>1074358
Cossack squats are largely "an expression of current mobility". What I mean by that is that the performance is largely dependent upon how flexible you are. I would spend the time stretching hips external rotation, internal rotation and ankle dorsiflexion.

Horse stance is a good bang for your buck exercise.
>>
>>1074345
The problem is that I don't have access to free weights. I can pistol squat with a 30lbs dumbbell, but it hasn't done much for my lower back. I don't train handstands and getting a press handstand sounds like a two year journey at least.

I have rings, a power tower, and an ab wheel. Is there anything else I can do?

Back extensions and supermans are pretty shit imo. I get a better lower back workout doing skin the cats.
>>
>>1074592
Look up the back extensions in foundation. There is some circular movement which should keep you busy for a while. You can always load the extensions fairly easy with the 30lbs dumbbell. It is generally a better idea to go for reps with core work so you are not that badly positioned.

Supermans train glutes and abs again, because you are supposed to ppt.

Regardless of your goals you should start training handstand immediately. The benefits of handstands and their variations are worth it for any kind of athlete.
>>
>>1074626
Alright thanks I'll look that up and see why I can do.

I would like to train handstands. Many months of shitty back to wall handstands fucked my shoulder up a bit so I have to back off for now. The pain and weakness seems to be diminishing, albeit slowly.
>>
>>1074636
Put your effort into shoulder mobility and stretches and body line work first and work chest to wall handstands meanwhile as you open up your shoulders and walk closer while keeping ppt.

No problem and good luck
>>
Any tips to improve forearms mass?
>>
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Guys halp, when doing leg raises I keep getting a really strange pulling sensation in like the northwest part in the middle of my left leg. I tried marking the approximate area on this pic with a blue line. It feels like the feeling you get when your hair is pulled out (like after taking something sticky off your skin), and afterwards I notice that part of my leg feels really numb, and now that I mention it I think my 3rd and 4th toe are slightly numb as well.

Any ideas what is going on? Am I somehow injuring a certain nerve? Is it something I can fix by specific exercises?
>>
>>1079849
training false grip and one arm hangs worked for me
>>
>>1079997
how are your toes during the leg raises? are you hooking your feet or pointing your toes
>>
hey body weight guys. If you train hard enough can you look like the ryback?
>>
>>1080368
Seems to happen more intensely when I point my toes, which is what I normally do because I'm not flexible enough yet to really curl them inwards when my leg is raised.
>>
>>956039
Can I go from lifting for a long time -> Gymnastics/Bodyweight succesfully?
I've been lifting for strength/aesthetics for like 2 years and I want to make the switch
>>
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Would any of you use knee/ elbow warming/compression sleeves? Like pic related?

http://www.enerskinamerica.com/collections/mens-compression-clothing
>>
>>1082234


why or why not?
>>
How to keep good posture with shitty chair? I spent most of my time sitting, i dont have 300-400$ to buy a new chair
>>
>>1082312
Just a personal thought, spend as much as possible in the things you'll use the most. I'm the guy with lower back pain from earlier in the thread, just yesterday had what by all accounts seems to be sciatica and the cause is most likely the hours upon hours spent sitting at the computer on a shitty chair.

Other than that, pic related
>>
>>1082083
sure. just learn to enjoy stretching to deal with deficits in flexibility and listen to your joints for any sign of pain to scale back when appropriate. you're strong, but probably mostly in a muscular sense. you might be able to jump right into planche leans but your elbows might give or your shoulders aren't mobile enough to be fully depressed and contracted or your wrists might not be strong enough or your hollow isn't enough so your back arches. one problem is that some progressions might feel easy enough that you can do mastery but not know you're doing it with bad form.

remember when you first paid attention to form for like the first month of lifting? you're gonna be doing that all the time now. it's not gonna be like minor adjustments to your squat form after a year since you're gonna be using different recruitment patterns possibly every 2 months.

>>1082312
fix chair? /diy/ it or something. if some guy can fix his teeth with a 3D printer and dentistry books for 40$ then i'm pretty sure you can fix a chair.

pretty much just read any book on proper posture and breathing. plenty of benefits that will carry on into old age just from good posture. your shoulders will be aligned correctly, activating your scapula to retract, reducing tension in traps, aligned hips lead to proper gait, etc.
>>
>>1067323
How? If you have the straight arm strength for FL and the lower back strength for BL, how can you not do tuck planche?
>>
Need a new thread guys
>>
>Can I lift 2 to 3 times a week and do bodyweight? If so what would be recommended?

Well anons?
Thread posts: 314
Thread images: 34


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