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My friend wants me to take up Capoeira with him. The idea is

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My friend wants me to take up Capoeira with him. The idea is for self defense.
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>>813796

You see, most martial arts have a lot similarities.

You'll find one certain kick with only minor differrences in Karate, Kung Fu, Muay Thai, Capoeira, TKD and so on...

Of course there are "special techniques" that are only present in one style, but there's definately overlap.

The bigger difference is not WHAT stylse teach you, but HOW.

In Capoeira you'll have this "Hey everybody, let's have a party" feeling, with a lot of good looking girly, music playing, very aesthetic movements and a lot of fun.

It will NOT put you under severe stress (i.e. someone charging at you with many strikes), it won't teach you to apply a technique against someone who is trying to knock you down, it won't teach you how much pain you can stand and how you can deal with it, it won't teach you how much power you need to enforce a certain technique on someone.

But all those are pretty important if you want to be prepared for "real fights", and that's why many guys on /asp/ recommend martial arts that do sparring on a regular basis.

So I'm not saying Capoeira can't be usefull, but for self defense reasons you should do something else because otherwise you'll be missing a lot of skills that are relevant for self defense..

What yuo could do is training regular kickboxing in combination with Capoeira, so you get a "solid foundation" and all the fun that Capoeira brings.

Or just what the picture says.
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>>813928
I think you underestimate the effectiveness of Capoeira. Imagine it being like the drunken monkey form, the unfamiliar rythm and movements throw the enemy off allowing you to suprise attack them.
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>>814012

Maybe my post was misleading, I'm not underestimating Capoeira.

But let me put it like this:
Before you can think about the "funky" stuff you have to know the basic stuff.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to dive away from someone and do a reverse kick, but if I never learned the basics of blocking kicks I'll get into trouble sooner or later.

The guy on the gif kicks ass, but he has:
-probably a lot more skill than the guy he's fighting
-an opponent who gives him the space to accelerate and move
-an opponent who is obviously unfamiliar with his attacks

So as you said, the unfamiliar movements can be an important point, that's why I recommended to cross train kickboing and Capoeira.

But if the kickboxer on the gif would have been on a higher level, he would have been mroe agressive, putting more pressure on the Capoeira guy and actually attacking instead of waiting for what's coming..
You see how the Capoeira guy steps backwards to get enough place right before the final knockdown? A better fighter immediately would have followed him, Jab, Jab, Lowkick.. Which is also great for throwing some off his rythm!

See this video, the kickboxer manages his distance pretty well and doen't give the Capoeira guy the time/ opportunity to start a good attack:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2qfhlp


So no offense, every school trains differnt, but I'm pretty if you practice Capoeira at a usual school and as a stand alone style (without additional cross training) would get a lot of beating in the ring - which doesn't mean it's a bad martial art, it has still a lot to offer.
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Learn judo, judo is probably the best for self defence in the modern world. Not the best choice if you want to compete in mma (you learn to fight with the gi in judo) but how often do people walk around shirtless outside?

Also, if you're serious about self defence, start lifting. If you pit a pro mma fighter against a gym bro, the gym bro's getting his ass whooped but in reality most of the fags touting the anti lifting nonsense are nowhere near as skilled as they think they are lol. Before I got into martial arts I used to powerlift (was fairly strong, 1300 total) and I had a skinnyfag "wrestling champion" (for his weight class) try to prove a stupid point by picking a fight with me at a party and unsurprisingly it didn't end well for him

I only lift 1-2x a week now, more focused on judo and boxing but I firmly believe my strength background has helped me out a lot in martial arts
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>>814069
>would get a lot of beating in the ring
This isn't going to be for some scripted fight in a ring. It's for the streets.
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>>814082

Sorry but unless you are an exceptional fighter (Madame Satã level) you'll get your ass kicked with Capoeira on the streets. At least when you are fighting someone with the same skill level in Muay Thai, Boxing or Kickboxing..
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>>814105
I don't think you have any experience in fighting or the streets.
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I have 4 years in capoeira and I would advise against it if it's for self defense. For self defense I'd go for boxing, necause it teaches you first the thing that will be the most useful : footwork, distance, not breaking your wrists.
Capoeira has aweful to none hand techniques, hence no hand defense, and that's what you'd want to train against first.

I do kung fu now, but I wouldn't advise that for self defense either. Basically the lengthy-response anon got everything right: every school is different, but go with what works, IF your in for self defense. Also, the pair of jeans you'll be wearing will make a compasso totally impractical on the street
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>>814012
>Imagine it being like the drunken monkey form
This is a pretty good tell that you can safely ignore this person's opinions on martial arts
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>>814839
9/10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-gstckxAsY
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It is shit for self defense but it is fun as fuck and you will probably have a good time with your friend.

Think of it as something fun to do rather then something you do to become a great fighter or bad ass.
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>>814618
>I have 4 years in capoeira and I would advise against it if it's for self defense.
>My Capoeira definitively represents the whole of Capoeira.
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>>814865
>person asks for advice
>someone gives advice
>"you don't represent _______"

/asp/ will never change
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>>814074
Fuck I wish I could practice judo. I have bjj near me though which is good. But I really wish it were judo. I wish I were more equipped to stay on my feet.
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>>814839
Oh I bet you know so much more than everyone else from the Mcdojo you frequent everyday.
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>>814914
Martial arts will never change, this is endemic to a community that thrives on taking insecure people and making them feel badass. Any time that notion is challenged they'll respond in a similar manner.

>>814940
>drunken monkey
>not being keywords for mckwoon central
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>>814865
Yeah I did 4 years of Capo. It's great fun.
Though in capo you'll learn how to play with and against capo, which is NOT how you'll be atacked in a self defense situation. Ans, since you won't be wearing those abada everyday everywhere, your jeans will severly limit your mobility, and hence effectivness.
Anon is not wrong in saying that capo can be a great addition, but only once you have the basics covered.

If you really like capoeira, do some 6-12 months of boxing, and then switch to capo.

I love capoeira, even if I'm not doing it anymore.
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>>814954
>drunken monkey
You know what, I'm sure you know more than everyone else. I'm so happy that /asp/ has someone like you to debunk centuries old fighting techniques developed by practitioners of an era that actually trained properly and used these fighting styles. I mean where would we be if you weren't here after spending 5 years at a Mcdojo, next to a Planet Wings, to tell us how full of shit people who spent their lives practicing and developing fighting styles are really.
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>>813796
dont its gimmicky as fuck
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>>815579
>muh centuries old tradition
>muh warriors of the past that trained to kill with these techniques
>muh blown up folklore to make the style sound badass is undeniable fact

And then people wonder why CMA are stuck in a perpetual shithole with only crap like Aikido being more of a punchline in the martial arts community, Sanshou notwithstanding.
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>>815681
Oh, you. You really thing that this drunken monkey exists.
It was quite an obvious troll. Or wasn't it?
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>>814865

Great. Show us the real capoeira that works.

>>815579

Great. Show us the real drunken monkey that works.

You see, I can show you the real boxing that works. It's called literally all boxing. I don't have to show you one of the six 15-second videos we've all seen already. I can show you somebody kicking ass with boxing or muay thai or judo or wrestling for months and never repeat myself.

Shit, drunken monkey doesn't even have the half dozen videos capoeira has.
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>>815725
I'm sure something called Drunken Monkey exists, whether it's garbage or not is another matter entirely (it is garbage), and the one guy clearly assmad at me for writing it off as crap and desperately claiming I go to a McDojo clearly cares about it.
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capoeira is terrible for self defense because its attacks are based mostly on telegraphs. Its only application of actual fighting is sparring "dancing" with other capoeristas. Its good for building self confidence and strength though.
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>>814572
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>>816029
>whether it's garbage or not is another matter entirely
>(it is garbage)
Explain how it's garbage. You're making a claim without backing it up.

>>815942
So because an obscure fighting style doesn't have many youtube videos, it's garbage?
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>>816957

Nope. But there's no reason to believe it isn't, so why believe it's so great?
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>>814012
>Imagine it being like the drunken monkey form
So it's shit?
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>>816957
Acting drunk and/or like a monkey or using dance-like motions like capoeira is not terribly effective at masking your rhythm or movement, in fact, it can make the quick, simple and actually effective motions needed to defend oneself more difficult to perform because you're busy doing your overblown shit that no fighter worth his salt has ever used. It's also energy-consuming when compared to any of the several more practical stances constantly used even in other chinese martial arts and does a lot of stupid shit like crossing your feet, at which point you're wholly open to getting rocked and landing on your ass.
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>>817194
>crossing your feet, at which point you're wholly open to getting rocked and landing on your ass.

Putting your weight onto your front leg to add power to a punch leaves you open to getting your leg fucked by a kick and landing on your ass with a useless leg.

Everything has a risk and a reward, it's how you use them that counts.
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>>817194
>>817210
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>>817210
>Everything has a risk and a reward, it's how you use them that counts.

No shit, but here's the thing: Boxing, kickboxing in its many forms, MMA, in none of these full contact contests with consistent, verifiable results is crossing the feet considered a good thing precisely because there's no particular benefit to doing so that cannot be otherwise achieved by safer means that don't leave you completely open to getting hit and falling right on your ass.

Yes if you put weight forward to throw power strikes it makes it harder to check kicks and easier to eat a fight-ending counterstrike, but crossing your feet is an even more telegraphed and more vulnerable position for generating power. Why do it then when there's safer and just as effective means of knocking someone out? You should only try fancy shit that goes against the textbook sparingly and when you have a good grasp of proper fundamentals, and every fundamental says that crossing feet is a pretty terrible idea.
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>>817210

>leaves you open to getting your leg fucked by a kick and landing on your ass with a useless leg.

Only if you are a weakling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fMRRiBCSJA
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>>817832
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E_1Jpb8j8k

More proof of this. Takanori Gomi eats a kick to the front leg, powers through and lands a huge right hand to become the first man to ever knock Tyson Griffin out, an accomplishment shared only by two other men.
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>>817832
>Only if you are a weakling.
Only if the kick isn't good enough.

>>817939
I'm not saying it happens all the time, just that it's common.
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>>813928
That flowchart is really good, but I've got to say that CMA's include Sanda, which is a pretty fucking good MA.
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>>815942
>You see, I can show you the real boxing that works.
Yeah, sure. Let's see a boxer defend against a knife or a any kind of lock or grapple.
Or even better, let them use a weapon. I'm sure nothing can go wrong.

Boxing is a sport. Nothing more, nothing less. It teaches you how to punch properly, but that's more of a side effect than the intended result of boxing. The intention of boxing is to become better at competing with other boxers, which goes to the detriment of everything else.

Also, good luck not accidentally breaking your wrist because your panic response is to punch like you got gloves on.

Boxing is only better than fencing and Kendo because its basic skill set is more applicable in mundane situations.
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>>817974
boxing will teach you to kick someones ass faster than any other fighting style. boxing is alot more than punches. thats like saying wrestling is just takedowns. Capoeira will teach you how to look cool while getting your ass kicked. drunken money will teach you how to look like a huge dork while getting your ass kicked.
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>>817974
Yeah boxing is a sport but so is every martial art worth doing. Muay Thai is the most deadly striking style out there and its a sport. Judo is a sport, wrestling is a sport, BJJ is a sport, MMA is a sport. A boxer would be extremely deadly in the streets. there is so much evidence that suggest boxing is a great style for self defense that i can't believe there are people that actually still argue that boxing sucks.
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>>818009
The point of monkey/drunken/whatever style is to do things that look like you suck but actually require you to be extremely well-versed in the techniques.
It's a way to show off/perfect your art.
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>>814074
>serious about self defence
>start lifting
KEK
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>>818089
people are alot more likely to fuck with you if you look like some skinny pussy. plus size and strength is an advantage in a fight. why wouldn't you start lifting in addition to martial arts?
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>>818161
jesus you sound insecure as fuck.
learning something solid like boxing/bjj/muay thai is more than enough to defend yourself.
any other form of physical activity will obviously help, but you hardly need it.
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>>818178

Not him, but why are you so anti-lifting?
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>>814012
Kapoera is dancing.
>>813928
Savate isn't specialised in kicks. It's just a form of kickboxing, the best one.
>>818178
Lifting won't kill you. Do it, lazy.
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>>818181
i'm not anti-lifting. i just think it's unnecessary.
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>>818184

>Getting stronger is unnecessary

Well if you say so.
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>>818185
>you need to lift weights to get stronger
if you think so.
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>>818190
You don't have to, but lifting is a very, very good way to get stronger. It's not 100% necessary if you're just taking stuff as a hobby, but if you really want to get stronger and face things with a sort of "what is the most effective way to be a badass" mentality? You gotta lift, no doubt.
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>>818178
being big has the benefit of being a deterrent and avoiding fights all together which is nice. and also even if you were trained if you are a 120 lb weakling you will have trouble with people much bigger than you. The only reason not to do some form of strength training would be laziness.
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>>818161
Just don't start lifting and think you can kick someone's ass.

My brother lifts. He moved stiffer than a tree when I tried to show him some moves.
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>>818363
>The only reason not to do some form of strength training would be laziness.
I thought lifting referred specifically to being autistic and going to the gym and using their tools.

Obviously, you should do the occasional push-ups and shit. But mostly the training itself will suffice.
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>>818014
None of those besides wrestling is a sport. You can compete in them but that doesn't make it a sport.
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>>818937
Judo is a sport. Many of its nuances are bad for actual fights but perfectly sensible in a competitive environment, due to how a rule-based settings differs from reality.

Is there a school of Judo that isn't primarily intended for competitive fighting?

MMA is more varied than boxing and definitely a much better preparation for actual fights, but it's still restricted in its rule set. Just recently some guys here on /asp/ talked about how the ruleset incentivized a certain style of fighting in MMA.

On the flipside, there is no realistic way to actually do real combat training. And doing deadly techniques in training without sparring has its own share of issues when it comes to entering combat situations.
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>>814012
>Imagine it being like the drunken monkey form

I'm so sad I'm 4 days too late to make fun of this post
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>>819081
Never too late m8
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>>819101
All right, I will do my best

>trying to defend capoeira
>comparing it to ancient chinese dancing
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>>817960

Yeah, I don't like all the hating about CMA either.

First of all, some Kung Fu styles do basic kickbox sparring and secondly you have the whole weapon stuff..

But generally CMA are rather "martial ART" than "MARTIAL art", if you know what I mean..

>>818170

That kick is actually quite nice, but the guy sucks.

>>818945

>Judo is a sport. Many of its nuances are bad for actual fights but perfectly sensible in a competitive environment, due to how a rule-based settings differs from reality.

Interesting. I always found Judo is very close to actual "street fighting" because of many things. In my opinion it's closer than Wrestling or BJJ for example.. (I'd say BJJ is better for the ring, though).

But (unless you are just a shitposter) I'd really like to hear what parts of Judo you don't consider realistic for street fights (apart from turtling up and laying on your belly, which no one will do in a real fight).
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>>819172
>But (unless you are just a shitposter) I'd really like to hear what parts of Judo you don't consider realistic for street fights (apart from turtling up and laying on your belly, which no one will do in a real fight).
Grappling itself is already kinda a bad choice for street utility - Going to the ground makes it easier for other opponents to join in.

The real issue with Judo is that punches, for example, are forbidden and thus no consideration for the fight. This shapes the entire tactical game.
A technique that pins your opponent but leaves their left arm open is perfectly valid in a competitive setting. In a real fight, though, that left arm could enter your opponent's pocket and pull out a knife or attack your eyes.

Now, I'm not a judoka, so I can't really go much into specifics. I just did a bit in the past and recently saw/tried a few techniques with a bit of discussion with actual practitioners.

Another thing that was mentioned is that you should try to pin your opponent with something that allows you to go mobile at any time, like pushing your knee into their solar plexus or mounting them.


>Yeah, I don't like all the hating about CMA either.
/asp/ in general seems to have a circlejerk going on about MMA, it seems. Anything that isn't a cage fight and doesn't prepare you to randomly fight a Muay Thai practitioner on the street is disregarded outright and mocked for whatever reason.
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>>819190
>Grappling itself is already kinda a bad choice for street utility - Going to the ground makes it easier for other opponents to join in.

Here's the thing though, you absolutely want to have an understanding of grappling in order to avoid going down or to know how to best regain your footing if you ever go down. You can't pull guard and buttscoot or try throws where you hit the floor as well in a self defense scenario, no argument from me there, but historically unarmed curriculums for military forces have included a hefty amount of grappling, because having the better grappling allows you to dictate where the fight takes place and gives you a better chance of controlling someone before subduing or killing them.

>/asp/ in general seems to have a circlejerk going on about MMA, it seems. Anything that isn't a cage fight and doesn't prepare you to randomly fight a Muay Thai practitioner on the street is disregarded outright and mocked for whatever reason.

The reason is the same as with any other pro-MMA communities: proven practicality. The martial arts are, at their core, about teaching fighting techniques. Many of them don't do so well, especially when compared to others that do, and hence they draw criticism now that we have easy ways to compare. MMA is a sport focused on finding the efficient ways to inflict bodily harm on people sans weapons and fusing them into a battle-tested whole, therefore it is well regarded.

Sure, it has rules and those change how its practiced, and they do away with things like hair-pulling or eye-gouging. But compared to your average martial art school that's stuck endlessly repeating tradition with no thought to its function and zero pressure testing, not to mention the endless amounts of straight up bullshit in the martial arts? MMA are golden.
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I did capoeira for 6 years.
I can attest that it has not really given me anything in the realm of self-defense.
For me self-defense was not why I started it. If you are the same then go ahead
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>>818937
>None of those besides wrestling is a sport. You can compete in them but that doesn't make it a sport.
actually every single one of those is a sport. Muay Thai is the national sport of Thailand. Boxing and MMA are the most popular combat sports to watch right now. Judo is an olympic sport. and BJJ is also a sport. what makes you think they aren't sports?
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>>819229
>Here's the thing though, you absolutely want to have an understanding of grappling in order to avoid going down or to know how to best regain your footing if you ever go down
so much this. people always say BJJ is terrible for self defense but having grappling knowledge is really valuable in order to stay off the ground.
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>>814012
>drunken monkey form
so Capoeira is like every drunk old man in any fighting game ever?
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>>819172
>I always found Judo is very close to actual "street fighting" because of many things. In my opinion it's closer than Wrestling
I'd say the opposite. Wrestling is more effective in the street than judo.
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>>819275
Both are great for different situations, if the opponent is wearing long, easy to grab and resistent clothing, Judo is probably the best option.

But IMO fighting for street defense is stupid.
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>>819190

>Going to the ground makes it easier for other opponents

That's exactly why you should train to not go to the ground. Also there's a big reason I consider grappling better for self defense as striking: If you want to defend with striking against someone, you can only severly damage him to stop him. If you know grappling you can savely control him. I have had one situations with a crazy bitch who was attacking someone, so I just grabbed her arms to hold her until she calmed down a little bit. It wasn't high level grappling, but my point is "self defense" isn't always "total war". Sometimes you want to defend without hurting someone.

>The real issue with Judo is that punches, for example, are forbidden

Yeah, but that's the problem with every "specialized" art. However, training in differnt specialized systems beats training in one single "complete" system most of the times.

>Another thing that was mentioned is that you should try to pin your opponent with something that allows you to go mobile at any time, like pushing your knee into their solar plexus or mounting them.

There's a lot of pins and also some armlocks that allow you to let go and get away fast. I'm not saying Judo is perfect or can't learn stuff from other systems, but generally it works pretty good as a stand alone system as well as a addition to other systems.

Furthermore, it's pretty easy to turn "nice" Judo into "dirty" Judo, some throws (Soto Makikomi, Sode Tsurikomi Goshi) easily allow for ellbows to the face as part of the throw.
>>819275

Well it's a tie, then.

Maybe I don't know enough about wrestling to judge it properly, but I have used Judo in conflicts (some who who was "temporarily out of his mind", I used an OSotoGari and pinned him to the ground) as well as recieved it (having trouble with a guy who footswept me, getting pinned) before I started with Judo. So I can say Judo is very effective. It's also taught to various polices and military all over the world.
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>>814074
>Also, if you're serious about self defense carry a gun.
FTFY
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>>818046
Yes we have all seen that fruit's description of drunken monkey on Fight Science. We all know the elevator pitch it's going for. The point is that it's dumb bullshit compared to styles that are FAR more practical, FAR more reliable, FAR more accessible, and FAR more comprehensive. You aren't going to convince anyone otherwise and you are already sure of how right you are so just fuck off.
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>>820314
>The point is that it's dumb bullshit compared to styles that are FAR more practical, FAR more reliable, FAR more accessible, and FAR more comprehensive.
Being inaccessible, unreliable and impractical is the entire POINT of the art.
What the hell is your problem? Can you not think beyond cage fights? There is more to martial arts than just punching people to death.
Just look at fencing. It's also fucking useless, but that doesn't make it a bad sport. In contrast to that, this art is actually related to combat.
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>>820333
>Being inaccessible, unreliable and impractical is the entire POINT of the art.

So you admit it's garbage for an actual fight, which is the point of martial arts. Martial, after all, means it's related or suggestive of war, conflict, warriors. Glad we can agree that Drunken Monkey is shit, we didn't think you'd see how retarded you were being.
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>>813796
Modern day capoeira is shit for self-defense. Mestre Bimba himself said that the incorporation of jujitsu into the art was the death of it. When you're not very good, you tend to resort to holds, which meant the jujitsu aspect eventually overtook the kicking aspect and at that point, you might as well learn actual grappling. In actual capoeira for self defense, close quarters is composed of tripping, elbows, and headbutts. You do hip throws but you don't go to the ground because that's asking to be stomped on from a bystander. But of course, there was only a few people who could pass his courses, so Bimba had to lower the bar because he wasn't making any money.
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>>813796
Capoeira is more than just a fighting system. Think of it akin to Tai Chi, where the primary focus is physical and spiritual wellbeing, with self-defense being an afterthought and only applicable once you've been doing it for years.

Also agree with
>>819172
>>819190
CMA don't deserve all the hate just because you dont see it on UFC. Not that I'd expect any of you armchair warriors to know first hand but sport fighting is a whole different ball game to street/bar fighting.

I do agree that the lack of sparring in CMA is a bit shit, but that's more reflective on the schools rather than the art itself. If you want to do Kung Fu, maybe go for somewhere that teaches Shaolin style rather than Wing Chun. The techniques themselves are a bit more flamboyant, but in my experience they REALLY push you as far as physical conditioning is concerned (strength, flexibility, agility) and they do sparring-esque exercises and drills.

Yeah, many TMA forms/katas might not be that efficient, but if you commit them to muscle memory it'll help counteract the adrenalin-rush panic, which'll give you a huge advantage in a real fight. Yeah, I've been fortunate enough that I've never had to fight someone who really knows what they're doing, but let's face it, how likely is it that the drunk douchebag who starts a bar brawl is a champion boxer or experienced karateka?
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>>829919
Ironic that you bring up Tai Chi considering it was repped in the UFC by Nick Osipczak. He kinda sucked and went 2-3 but it was there. The whole physical and spiritual wellbeing focus is nice and all but if you're not learning to fight in an at least moderately effective way you can't call what you do a martial art.

>http://web.archive.org/web/20080905131429/http://www.wutehtaiji.com/articletext.html

ctrl+f "an interview with yang fukui". Dude's a member of the Yang family behind the Yang-style Taichi who says that focusing on the actual fighting bit used to be paramount even in Taichi practice when compared to physical and spiritual wellbeing and speaks about how one becomes better at fighting by actually fighting. Shocking that what could be called a Tai Chi master promotes all these sensible views about fighting, I know. Feel free to write it off as "not muh real tai chi" if you like.

Trying to separate sport from self defense when sport is one of the best ways to prepare someone for fighting by forcing them to employ their techniques full speed against a resisting and equally skilled attacker is ridiculous and shows you're grasping at straws to justify failings. I don't dismiss CMA offhand, but I do dismiss people like you who think that doing forms prepares you for a fight.
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>>820376
I don't even know what the fuck to tell you.

I think you might have terminal brain cancer.
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>>830299
>but if you're not learning to fight in an at least moderately effective way you can't call what you do a martial art.
>winning against trained cage fighters
>requirement for being good
See the problem? Most people that you will encounter are NOT trained UFC fighters. They will be an average joe with maybe a bit of boxing training or a bit of lifting.

Your lovely cage fighting tricks won't help you in your life aside from actual fights. In fact, boxing's tendency to give you head hits fucks with your brain.
Taichi, meanwhile, will help you with back problems and also teaches you how to fend off a drunkard or asshole.
>>
>>830356
You said it yourself. The entire point of it is being inaccessible, unreliable and impractical. This automatically makes it worse at its purpose than other more accessible, reliable and practical martial arts. Since the purpose of martial arts, as stated by the very term, is learning to fight, that means Drunken Monkey is shit. It's a very simple line of reasoning you provided.

>>830361
Well yes, if you learn to fight against the men and women who train exclusively for it it means you're, indeed, good. I'm not saying everyone has to be as good at it as a professional mixed martial artist, but that's a goal to strive for, something we can look at and think "yeah that's a skill level I'd like to have", and it has actual verifiable results.

Training boxing at an amateur level, with headgear and thicker gloves and only doing so ocassionally and without cutting weight won't put your brain at risk because you're not undergoing the kind of harsh training regimen and engaging in the extreme levels of performance demanded of professionals. Stop being retarded.

Not only will training boxing teach you more about better fighting in a far shorter time than something like 95% of tai chi schools, boxing training includes very complete conditioning that helps with coordination, reflexes, cardiovascular fitness, muscle, bone and ligament strengthening, core strength and stability. Fitness is not exclusive to China, the world elsewhere has developed and one can, surprisingly, also engage in a physical regimen in addition to their martial arts classes.

People like you and Drunken Monkey Guy is why people have no respect for CMA. You are part of the problem.
>>
>>830459
>implying the brain damage is caused by the weight cut and training
are you really that stupid?
>>
Luckily we live in a world where you can go your entire life without having to fight someone. Capoeira is good for looking cool, having fun and staying fit. I don't think it would do much in a life or death situation but when would you even find yourself in that situation?
I will always avoid a fight but if I was planning on getting into one I'd study boxing or kickboxing or kyukoshin because they all spar and for grappling I'd do wrestling, judo, bjj or sambo-again forms that spar.
>>
>>830485
I'm not implying, I'm outright stating that the extreme levels of performance required of professional boxers and the weight cutting exacerbate the natural problems with getting punched in the head. I am also stating, once again, that an amateur stands about as much risk of suffering brain damage training boxing than they do any other contact sport where the head might get struck, considering they fight less and tend to do so with thicker gloves and headgear to boot. Since you don't know, I'll explain: Weight cutting removes fluid from the brain and makes it that much more susceptible to damage. It's that simple, it's been known for a while. Not my fault if you're retarded.
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>>830525
that's why NFL players get brain damage too right? because they have to cut weight? stop trying to justify the brain damage you evidently already have.
>>
>>830539
No, NFL players get brain damage because they engage in constant high impact collisions with their head wearing helmets that do nothing to stop that level of concussions yet give them a feeling of safety. Charging headfirst at someone doing the same is not the same as getting punched.

And you continue to go to extremely high demand settings as proof that a hobbyist would suffer brain damage from training in the discipline. You really should stop talking about things you obviously don't know anything about, it's seriously playing into the CMA stereotype way too much.
>>
To get away from NFL and back to the point, I've done Capoeira (not at all mastered it), and I've learned some BJJ, some striking (Muai Thai, Karate, etc) and even Tai Chi.

If you're looking for some serious self-defense skills, the most appropriate way to go is Krav Maga, or maybe even akido. Both are made for "self-defense". The truth of the matter is that no matter what you learn, it's only going to be helpful if you study and practice applying it to actual fights.

Capoeira is actually an incredible workout. People talk about the kicks in this dance martial art, but truthfully your upper body and flexibility will be trained the most. You'll also learn rhythm (which can help in a fight if you have both the means to apply it and if the fight goes in such a way that it can be applied).

But after watching the videos of dudes in MMA straight wrecking people with Capoeira, it's got a lot more popular. What isn't mentioned however is that these fighters have also studied other martial arts, because what you are seeing is NOT pure Capoeira.

Hope this is helpful
>>
>>830622
Aikido is garbage and the only bigger punchline than CMA in the martial arts community, because CMA might be bad in general but they have Sanshou/Sanda and the term is so wide-reaching and poorly defined and controlled beyond "anything chinese" that it can apply to both basic posture exercise Tai Chi or something like Choy Li Fut school where they actually train to fight.

Aikido is a nice, constant target, an outdated system that was further filtered of practical applications by the philosophical bent of its creator. Training half-speed drills where a guy charges at you in a cartoony lunge attack then does a perfect flip when you gently sort of twist his arm or grab at his wrist does not lead to proper self defense skills. Aikido's lone redeeming value is still having something of a weapons curriculum but its training methods are shit.
>>
>>830591
you really do need to have been punched in the head over and over again to think getting punched in the head over and over again isn't going to cause you some brain damage.
i mean sure, if you feel you don't need your brain to be in optimum condition for whatever you want to do in the future then go ahead. a bit of brain damage isn't so bad if you're planning to take the less cerebral path.
>>
>>830651
>CMA guy
>talks about less cerebral path

Oh the irony of someone talking about brain condition while blindly following a watered down and consumer friendly "tradition" with unverifiable credentials and a history of poor results in front of pressure testing. I mean it's not like Shaolin is basically a tourist trap nowadays or anything.

Now, if you take the time to read my posts you'll notice I've acknowledged that yes, getting hit in the head causes brain damage. Here I'll even quote it for you just to reduce your workload, I figure it must be hard for you otherwise:

>the extreme levels of performance required of professional boxers and the weight cutting exacerbate the natural problems with getting punched in the head

I'll still spell my point out for you, though, because clearly you need all the help you can get: training boxing as an amateur that does it for fitness and maybe learning how to fight will not give you brain damage, because the safety standards are greater, you're getting punched less and you don't have all those other factors that increase the risk.

If you get punched in the head enough to develop brain damage as an amateur that's not even looking to compete seriously, you're training in the wrong place and should probably sue. But feel free to go ahead and keep thinking how boxing is so barbaric and how doing basic stance training and slooooooooowly repeating overlong forms will somehow prepare you for when you actually need to fight anything more dangerous than low self esteem.
>>
>>830664
not even the cma guy, i just thought what you said was really dumb.
yes weight cuts make the brain damage worse, the brain damage is still caused by force rattling your tiny brain. like i said, if you don't plan to pursue anything intellectual and your life doesn't require anything beyond a simple mind then go ahead.
>>
>>830299

I'm not the guy are arguing with, but I used to do Kung Fu for about 1.5 years, and we did sparring (semi contact kickboxing rules). Like my old Master used to say, Tai Chi is for Kung Fu guys, when they get old. And I don't mean that as an insult. Tai Chi is great for well being. And honestly, when you are older you might not feel like doing flashy highkicks anymore , the hip mobility vanishes, the kness start to hurt.. Tai Chi keeps you very fit until old age and even when you are younger you can pratice it for health reasons, you can do it when you take a break from work without breaking sweat. It's great for what it does.
>>
>>830713
>not even the cma guy
Sure thing buddy. Also, wow, again you fail to read. If you could, you'd realize I've already long since acknowledged that brain damage comes from force rattling your brain. It's okay though I'll repeat my entire point again, maybe this time you'll actually understand what I'm typing. Here it goes, so try your hardest okay? Even the big words:

Amateur boxing without any serious attempts at competition such as Golden Gloves has such a vastly diminished risk of brain damage, comparable to that of any other contact sport, that trying to link it to the extreme issues seen in those who box for a living and do so for a long time is ridiculous.

Got that? Try again if you haven't. As an aside, going back to the root of this (A CMA guy being retarded and thinking Tai Chi is the only way to stay fit) both wrestling and brazilian jiu jitsu are integral parts of "cage fighting" that do not risk strikes to the head, or any sort of strike at all, and are also terrific workouts, and while wrestling is more highly demanding, BJJ built its reputation on allowing a smaller or less physically capable fighter to overcome a larger one. Romanticism, the sport has weight classes for a reason now, but one can very much roll into old age and these skills, by virtue of pressure testing and being practiced at full speed against resisting opponents, translate into effective fighting skills better than what 90% of any CMA school will teach you.
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>>830798

Hey, that was a pretty long sentence!!
Not fair.
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>>830798
>going full retard
yea don't get punched in the head kids.
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>>830650
>then does a perfect flip when you gently sort of twist his arm or grab at his wrist
Not flipping would lead to injury.
>>
desu for every time a fancy capoeira kick works in practice, there are several dozen failures where they get their shit pushed in because their opponent doesn't give them the time or space needed for most of them to be effective

t. capoeira scrub
>>
>>831417
>thinks doing forms will "give you a huge advantage in a real fight"
>promotes Shaolin like it's anywhere near respectable
>thinks you need to do CMA to do healthy conditioning
>talks about going full retard

Walking proof that you can take no punches to the head, or indeed ever approach any risk of harm in any way, and be incredibly retarded. And then they wonder why no one seems to take CMA seriously.

>>831426
You tell yourself that champ. I'm sure all those actual grapplers who don't do a full front flip any time their wrists are grabbed are doing it wrong and that, any day now, an aikidoka will provide undeniable proof that their martial art can actually work as advertised against a moderately resisting opponent instead of looking like white belt level Judo at best.
>>
>>831624
i'm literally not that guy lol @ you raging so hard i guess brain damage messes with your emotional circuitry as well
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>>831697
>disastrously losing argument
>lolumad
>>
>>831731
>argues with someone else
>says he wins argument
brain damage is real rofl
>>
No real contact, no real learning.
>>
>>831788
>I-I swear it's not me you guys
>It's...its not like I wrote about being punched in the head in the first place and have continued this line of argument to discredit boxing training

Man this thread has been a goldmine for CMA retardation between Drunken Monkey guy and you. I feel sorry for the people who run reputable establishments that actually teach martial arts and get shit on for being vaguely related to chucklefucks like these.
>>
>>831818
if you keep insisting something it makes it true rofl
>>
>>818774
the occasional push up will accomplish nothing. whats wrong with going to the gym and using their equipment? they have barbells there that you can use for strength training. there are programs designed specifically for athletes.
>>
>>831818
>I feel sorry for the people who run reputable establishments that actually teach martial arts and get shit on for being vaguely related to chucklefucks like these.

> ching chong dancing
> reputable
>>
>>832419
Believe it or not, yes, I'm not one to dismiss the entirety of CMA off hand, not any more than the entirety of karate for instance. But for every school that trains Sanshou/Sanda, whether as a standalone curriculum or by actually making their students fight and realize what works and what doesn't in the context of their system, you have like a million who think slowly performing forms actually teaches them how to fight and that there's no other way to stay healthy.
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