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Who is to blame for the burning pile of shit product we have

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Thread replies: 257
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Who is to blame for the burning pile of shit product we have now? Don't blame PG either. Even Frozen had a better storyline than the WWE in the last 5 years combined.
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We are.
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>Even Frozen had a better storyline than the WWE in the last 5 years combined.
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Kevin Dunn
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>>793048

The man in your picture.

Think back to the fact that in 2 years, Austin, The Rock, Chris Jericho all left the company and it didn't crumble upon itself (well RAW did suck but Smackdown was GOAT) now, your main event picture is Reigns and Sheamus....that's it. Product sucks so much they rely on a 50 year old with a dead wizard gimmick.
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Millennials, political correctness.

>hey lets have a divas match as the main event
>hey lets have 3 back to back nigger matches

also wwe network
>our writing sucks so lets dilute it even more by writing reality shows
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>>793057
As much as i think the divas revolution thing is shit.

Kill yourself with this /pol/tier post

Vince is the only person to blame. And yes, hes an out of touch old man. Its said so much because its true
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>>793060
>new day fan detected
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>>793060
I am not heavily invested into the politics of WWE, but the Attitude Era was God Tier and RA era was great too. Vince was heavily participating in both. Why do people blame him for the sack of shit we have now?
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You want to know why WWE is boring and ratings are low?

Boring new wrestlers with no charisma, Seth the Screeching Faggot, Roman BBuh Belive That, Cesaro's stale ass, Daniel Bryan's nerdy faggot ass.

Writers are Hollywood writers, don't know shit about wrestling.

Vince is out of touch pushing all these boring wrestlers like Sheamus.

No one gives a shit about woman wrestling. Fuck that, even if the divas were getting naked, it will still be a piss break.

Self-entitled fans.

Not to mention wrestling is not cool anymore and the only people who still watch the WWE in 2015 are mostly neckbeard nerds and kids.
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The unified roster thing is pretty bad
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>>793048
paul Levesque aka shovel man

It's literally the same match ups every single raw and the same tired feuds.
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>>793087
HHH is still superceded by his father in law.
He runs a pretty tight ship on nxt from what I hear
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>>793087
Hunter isnt the one writing on RAW or Smackdown, he is in charge of NXT, a far better product.
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>>793048
>he thinks mandrama storylines will go above actual films
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> VKM
> Kevin Dunn
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>>793048
The only person on the current active roster is John Cena.

In the 90s you had super super stars like The Rock, Stone Cold, Mankind, HHH , the undertaker all at once which drew in huge crowds and it peaked there.

Now we have a rehash of the attitude era with the athourity (aka the new McMahon-Helmsley Era) and the banal plot of Russev and the Russia vs America Rocky 4 bullshit and a until recently they completely ignored the tag team division.

Also Kane can't wrestle and cost daniel bryan and seth their careers pretty much.
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>>793109
>cost daniel bryan and seth their careers
What?
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>>793112
Kane injured Seth and Daniel and stripped then of their titles. That takes them off the active roster for an average of 9 months between the both of them.
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>>793117
But he wasn't responsible for their injuries
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>>793121
Kane please

You know you can't wrestle.
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>>793125
Prove to me that he was responsible for Seth and Daniels injuries
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>>793126
You were there Kane, you should know you suck
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>>793129
Seth injured himself because he botched a landing from a flip and Bryan was already injured before Extreme Rules
Are you working me or something?
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>>793126
>both were injured during a match with kane

I mean what else do you want fella?
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>>793135
>fella

SHAMUS no one cares you're WWE champion
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>>793048
The man in the picture. Watch Lucha Underground instead
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>>793119
Alright I can see your point but he was a good heel though.
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>>793119
please have intercourse
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>>793166
holy shit you are a fucking autist
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>>793180
>le autism meme
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>>793166
>implying Triple H isn't a superstar
confirmed underage
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Raw Ratings from last night

8pm: 3.190
9pm: 2.990
10pm: 2.712

Avg: 2.964
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The talent is terrible.Seth Rollins is probably the best out of all of them, and he wouldn't even be on the mid card in the early 2000s, let alone the 90s. inb4 indy fag ass nerds say Daniel Bryan. lmao

CM Punk was the last "new" star to come along.

Even Undertaker is old and stale now.

Brock Lesnar is the only guy worth watching.
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>>793227
you've got to be the most retarded anti-smark i've ever seen
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>>793227

>It's a CM Punk nuthugging post

Even worse than that guy who got mad I said Enzo and Cass suck.
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>>793245
>objectively the most successful and popular wrestler since Cena
>made it into pop culture
>pointing out facts
>"hurr nuthugging"

idiot
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>>793233
>brainwashed kliqfraggle
brainwashed smark detected
18+
Triple H is a legend bro
>co-founded DX and leaded it for a while, DX became better under his control
>Top heel of the Attitude Era, one of the greatest heels ever in wrestling (unless you count Vince), McMahon-Helmsley Era
>lead Evolution and helped create two future superstars in Batista and Orton
>Put over the future stars like Benoit, Bryan, Cena, Batista, etc.
>Many championships to his name
>Is responsible for NXT right now
>many classic matches
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>>793288
You forgot to mention how the Kliq started the AE all by themselves.
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>>793305
>>793305
If Triple H isn't over then why are so many people fans of him? Even in 2000 HHH was pretty over with smarks as a heel
>haitch only became top heel because he wasn't good enough to be top face
?
Classic HHH matches? Here are some noteworthy ones
>HHH vs Cactus Jack RAW 1997
>HHH vs The Rock Summerslam 1998
>HHH vs Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000
>HHH vs Cactus Jack No Way Out 2000
>HHH vs The Rock Backlash 2000
>HHH vs Benoit No Mercy 2000
>HHH vs HBK Summerslam 2002
>HHH vs Benoit vs HBK Mania 20
>HHH vs Batista Vengeance 2005
>HHH vs Cena Mania 22
>HHH vs Undertaker at Wrestlemanias 27 and 28
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New generation of generic millenials with ZERO FUCKING PERSONALITY. I swear every promo sounds the same. Characters are bland and we've seen them a thousand times.
Vince needs to fire all writers and start from scratch.
Also WWE takes itself too seriously. I miss the ruthless aggression days. At least the skits were funny.
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Every fucking week Raw starts with a 20 minute authority promo. Fuck off Triple H. This company has been The Triple H Show for the past decade. Goddamn i hope he gets triple cancer that big nosed boring faggot.
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>>793305
>someone that couldnt get over on his own for shit and always had to be propped up by better more interesting people. people like haitch only become top heel when they arent good enough to be top face
We're not talking about Bret Hart right now
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Two words.
>Vanilla midgets.
Goddamn vanilla midgets should be on midcard and midcard ONLY.
Leave main event to the big boys.
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If WWE does this ratings will spike back up:
>Bring back 14+
>Stop breaking kayfabe
>Make brand split (Raw vs Smackdown)
>Bring more celebs to get peoples interest.
>Let wrestlers use roids again
>Fire any and all wrestlers under 5'. (Does not apply to Divas)
>Get rid of the stupid Authority storyline
>Give John Cena the WHC
>Give champions meaningful storylines
>More backstage segments
>Have different sets for PPVS
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>>793333
Here are some more classic matches
>HHH vs SCSA no way out 2001
>HHH vs Rock Judgement Day 2000
>HHH vs HBK Armageddon 2002
>HHH vs Jericho Fully Loaded 2000
>HHH vs Daniel Bryan WM 30
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Vince McMahon, his idiotic daughter, and his doofus son-in-law.
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>>793366
>actually caring about kayfabe
How can an adult justify this?
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>>793379
I dont care about it but it'll make the product seem more legit.
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>>793063
He's become delusional. NXT gets more pops because of Haitch.
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>>793115
>Gaytch
so how's highschool?
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NIELSEN 2.16 SAYS
I JUST KICKED YOUR ASS
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The McMahons and the writing team.

I don't think that WWE has been lacking in grade-A stock as far as wrestlers are concerned. I think that both the main event and the mid card have potential to be every bit as good as what we had back in the late 90s and early 00s. However, much like any other relationship between actors and writers, the wrestlers largely rely on the writing staff to utilize their charisma in a manner that's entertaining to watch. That hasn't been happening.

Also, while some people don't like this being pointed out, wrestling in its prime was always a soap opera for guys. Tough dudes fighting it out in bitter rivalries, violence, rude gestures, sexy women, good guys who weren't necessarily role models, humor that wouldn't fly in church, high tension driven by action, and a very rough, manly atmosphere in general. That was its appeal. Both dads and sons loved it.

>Why wouldn't they appeal to a LARGER AUDIENCE?

They're clearly not appealing to a larger audience, considering that ratings are down. A good product focuses on pleasing its most prominent customers. A bad product flails around trying to please everybody. This would be like if Lifetime suddenly decided that it wanted male children sitting down and watching their channel. What would that do to their shows, and to its fans?

Maybe what the writers need is an actual direction that's well suited to take the medium and turn it into something very fun that people want to tune into every week. The Attitude Era is so popular because it fit that description to a T.
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I wonder...
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>>793379

I think it probably matters as much as any work of fiction. Was there ever a Game of Thrones episode where Jon Snow turned and winked at the camera? Just because it's fake doesn't mean constant reminders don't take you out of it.
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>>793048
Old guy here.

I've been around long enough to still think it's weird to see wrestlers out of character. So I think I have a slightly different perspective on this than most of you younger guys.

I've noticed that modern (adult) fans think the Attitude Era was "normal" and use that as a measuring stick to judge all of wrestling by. The thing you gotta understand is that the Attitude Era was a freak show. And shock value doesn't last. So if you think bringing that back'll do anything for the business then we're all lucky none of you are bookers.

Truth is PG is normal. Always has been. So the "problem" is not in any way shape or form about that.

The biggest reason why the product is the way it is today is because the market has cratered and Vince and company are just trying to do what they can to stay afloat. So everything you see on TV nowadays on Raw or the PPVs or whatever is what WWE looks like in survival mode.

I've noticed that very few fans know how unbelievably HUGE professional wrestling used to be. Hogan vs. Andre in 1988 on NBC drew over 30 MILLION viewers. So when I hear people act like The Rock was the biggest thing ever because he was getting like 7 mil, that's just a straight up joke to me. Even the Attitude Era was a decline since the 80s.

But this isn't to say that the Attitude Era was bad or anything. I'm just pointing out how far things have fallen. Now Raw will get like 2 mil and half those are 8-13 year old boys who only watch for Cena and are literally going to give up wrestling forever when he retires.

When you're in a position like this you have two options: 1) Pull off a miracle and get a new boom going and everyone watching again, or 2) cater to the limited market you have so they stick around and prop you up. And when so many of the fans you have are ONLY there for one guy then your hands are fucking tied. Either build the entire company around one person or go out of business. There's nothing else you can do.
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>>793849
That's not all though.

On top of that you've got PC shit getting so big that half the time tested angles in wrestling, or just ANY type of fiction that works at getting people emotional and making them react, you can no longer do or you'll get straight up yanked off the air.

Then you've got the wrestlers themselves. Used to be wrestlers were just blue collar guys with no job skills and decent gymnastic abilities looking for some rent money. Now they're dweebs with athletic talents. They're the kind of guys that if they were fat they'd be on /r9k/ or /mlp/ or be into some other nerd shit like that. So none of them are relatable anymore. How the fuck am I suppose to root for these jackasses? I'd rather see them all get their asses kicked, except then one of them would have to win, so I don't wanna see that either. Come to think of it it'd be more entertaining watching the WWE roster get hit by a truck than watching them wrestling.

Then there's the wrestling itself. Everybody having to have unique movesets and all the moves being over stylized makes NO sense and looks RIDICULOUS. These guys look like fools doing this shit and they don't even seem to realize it. Plus no one has updated wrestling for the MMA era. You can't get away with bouncing off the ropes anymore because it makes it look like you're trying to act out fucking cartoon physics and nobody wants to see that. And when you lay on the ground from half a minute motionless waiting for the other guy to pull off his bullshit flip move it destroys suspension of disbelief now that people know from MMA that shit does not and cannot work that way.

The biggest problem though is the constant obsession with camp humor. McMahon obviously thinks it's hilarious, but all the "LOL AREN'T WE BEING SO SILLY/TRASHY LOL" just scares people away and makes almost everyone embarrassed to even watch or be associated with wrestling.
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>>793057
New Day is one of the only good things in the WWE right now. You're objectively wrong if you think otherwise.
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>>793366
>>Stop breaking kayfabe

This.

The rest of your ideas are shit except for these:
>Get rid of the stupid Authority storyline
>Give John Cena the WHC

>>793379
See: >>793826 and stop being such a smark fag.
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>>793849
>>793878
As far as ideas on what to fix/how to improve:

>bring on-camera kayfabe back 100%
>treat the titles like they seem something
>treat the results of the match like they mean something
>drop anything that pushes suspension of disbelief too far (e.g. running the ropes, acting like you're fucking dead or unconscious after a move, overselling [like fucking back spasms after a bodyslam])
>bring in more lucha guys to draw hispaniard viewers
>fire people who are known to treat the company like their own personal playground like Johnny Ace
>fire the writers and getting a proper booker
>drop "storylines" and go back to proper feuding
>no more "nerd/geek" wrestlers that only appeal to the diehards on the internet -- those people are not and never will be a desirable market for any company that wants to profit
>don't ever let Heyman or Russo anywhere near the company or industry again
>>
>sponsors
>linda mcmahons political "career"
>steph
>PC society
>social media
>chris benoit
>no competiton
>Cena

Probably missing some stuff

And
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>>793882
You think having different stage setups for ppvs is a bad idea?
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>>793099
Actually, he oversees both Raw and Smackdown.
Vince jut has final say on the script, which I'm sure is him only reading Reigns' segments.
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>>793915
Waste of money. What's the point?
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>>793894
>don't let Heyman near the company or even industry
Heyman was the main driving force behind WWEs best output ever, the early 00s Smackdown. Any show that gets mark crowds to give full blown heels a standing ovation after a losing effort is clearly doing a good job.
He's also the best promo guy on TV by some margin
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>>793063
Vince was dragged kicking and screaming into Attitude by people that were ACTUALLY in-touch with audiences at the time and Ruthless Aggression was only good on Thursday nights, because Vince wasn't hands-on with the booking during the SmackDown! 6 Era

RAW was GARBAGE in 2002-2003
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>>793894
>>no more "nerd/geek" wrestlers that only appeal to the diehards on the internet -- those people are not and never will be a desirable market for any company that wants to profit

Yeah that must be why all those cape movies are bombing and The Big Bang Theory is ratings poison
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>>793921
Makes it feel special/different.
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>>793952
>RAW was GARBAGE in 2002-2003

I wonder why
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>>793972
You. I like you.

> tfw you feel old as balls when you see IWCers non-ironically marking for Evolution
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>>793952
Its ok no one liked attitude era. No one wants to watch that. There is no reason it is seen as the golden age of WWE.
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>>793977
> implying that 2002-2003 was Attitude Era

18+
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>>793985

Wow maybe you should learn to read because

>implying I said anything that implying attitude was 2002-2003 you fucking reddit child ape
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>>794003
So what WERE you saying, then? Because that was the only faux-sensible interpretation I could draw from your ambling
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>>794009
The post before me was commenting about how Vince was dragged into the attitude era kicking and screaming. I was make a sarcastic joke that is not so if your fucking too retarded to read and pick up on context clues. Jesus fucking christ this thread is 18+ plz
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>>794012
lol but it absolutely is, his booking in the mid-90s was just as bad as it is now

Learn more about wrestling, junior
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>>794015
I just....how....what... how can you still not understand....just I'm done I'm going to go fap instead.
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>>794016
Funny, because I thought you were jerking yourself off after your first post in this thread

> I was make a sarcastic joke that is not so if your fucking too retarded

I - RO -NY
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>>793378
This punk understands what is wrong
>>
he keeps hiring failed tv writers instead of good wrestling writers
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>>794146
>tfw freddie prince jr was actually a good writer and a wrestling fan but left to go do other things
he should come back.
>>
>>794146
> he keeps ignoring what everybody else says and just doing whatever he wants

Fixed
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>>793958
>cape movies
>"nerdy"

Do you post on facebook? Because you sound like the kind of faggot that does.
>>
>>793958
>The Big Bang Theory

A show about making fun of nerds and portraying them as literally autistic.
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>>793048
"Creative", which is ultimately the responsibility of Vince. Not surprising desu, you just have to listen to his podcast with Austin to hear how out of touch he is. I felt some pity for him, probably the first time ever I've felt sorry for Vince, but he still really wants to run the show and can't admit he's not cut out for it any more.
>>
>>793366
What a bizarre mix of good ideas and retarded shite.
>>
Vince and his equally egomaniacal, retarded and stubborn "creative" team. Lack of competition doesn't help either.
>>
>>794183
>>794184
And yet they're crushing WWE in mainstream appeal
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>>793212
>that third hour drop off
Every week. They need to cut it down to two hours. Why the fuck did they even change it?
>>
>>794444
quads confirm
>>
>>794441
There is no "team". It's just Vince. Everything that gets on TV is what he wants to do.
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>>793140
WHO LOOKS STUPID NOW!?
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>>793878
>all the moves being over stylized makes NO sense and looks RIDICULOUS

So do fake boots to the chest that miss by half a foot.

>The biggest problem though is the constant obsession with camp humor. McMahon obviously thinks it's hilarious, but all the "LOL AREN'T WE BEING SO SILLY/TRASHY LOL" just scares people away and makes almost everyone embarrassed to even watch or be associated with wrestling.

I'd agree that the humor is overboard these days, though it still belongs.
>>
>>793881
They were pretty over the top last RAW and insulting country music was about as cheap as the heat can get, but they were also one of the few highlights.
>>
>>793251
CM Punk was compelling tv at least.
>>
>>793878
> no-one has updated wrestling for the MMA era

ECW was doing MMA gimmicks over 20 years ago

ROH has been doing MMA gimmicks for 5 years
>>
>>793342
Come on this one was perfectly justified. Who better to recap the PPV than the pissed off boss?
>>
>>793379
It's the unique thing WWE has to offer. And a lot of the time they only break it for cheap heat or a few adclicks
>>
>>794438
Still it being a mix puts it above most of the real ideas.
>>
>>794442
What do you mean 'and yet' bashing nerds is 'normie' catnip.
>>
>>793878
It sounds like you just want to watch MMA anon.
>>
>>794665
Same with wwf. They were doing mma gimick with Shamrock and Severn and they even had a special cage and fought owen hart had the dungeon match with Shamrock and it Was awesome
>>
>>794688
Shamrock was so fucking awesome

Suplexes, MMA holds AND Frankensteiners

Pretty much the perfect wrestler
>>
Combination of factors.

Vince's micromanaging essentially subverts the need for a writing staff in the first place, let alone one with over 20 people on it, but I'm sure their ideas don't exactly capture the spirit of wrestling anyway. His fixation on getting his vision to be the one people accept has really narrowed the main event story.

Stephanie's a corporate robot who thinks she understands business after going to different public relations conferences, so she focuses on a specific "brand image" for the company.

Scripted promos tend to be so bad that they don't appear to be written for or by real people.

Kevin Dunn has homogenized production and there is no variety of presentation. There is nothing "raw" about the presentation of the product, and it hasn't changed in 13+ years besides HD presentation. Unless you want to count sets for PPV's being the same as TV sets.

The most glaring problem is the fact that their revenue, by and large, flows through their Network, which doesn't lose subscribers as much as it gains. As long as that generates a great bottom line, they actually don't have to present a product that anybody likes. They just have to present one to fill space on their money-making streaming service.

They have actually reached the point where they can do whatever they want and be on auto-pilot for wrestling.
>>
>>794146
>Adam Blampied now writes all of the storylines
WWE fixed?
>>
>>794740
> autopilot

RECORD
LOW
RATINGS
>>
>>794746
Most viewed channel on YouTube desu senpai
>>
>>794748
Yeah I'm sure they're making bank off that ad revenue
>>
>>793048
>Don't blame PG
why not? its also big part of the problem
>>
>>794766
Being PG doesn't stop NXT from being great
>>
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>>794768
>NXT
>great
mind to tell me what's so great about a jobbers and midgets show?
>>
>>794777
> I only watch for main eventers

I bet you non-ironically still want to see Grampa Undertaker wrestle, too
>>
>>794777
>jobbers

How is this a legit complaint? Someone HAS to lose the match.
>>
>>794782
have you seen that fucking roster?
they all look like jobbers, maybe midcards.
i don't even watch raw anymore
wrestling is dead
smarks wanting pushes for all these midgets and jobbers rustle all of my jimmies
>>
>>794800
Go away Smarkbustuh

> Look = Stardom

That must be why Reigns is doing so well and why that Bryan kid never won anything
>>
>>794781
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HLIqrN8P1Q
>>
>>794806
> fake Attitude Era fanboiz who jerk off to Batista in 2015

O - P - I - N - I - O - N | D - I - S - C - A - R - D - E - D
>>
>>794768
>NXMeme
>great
>>
>>794831
> memeposting

Go back to /sp/
>>
>>794777
Enjoy your over the hill vanilla gorillas you dumb nigger.
>>
>>793366

>Bring back 14+

Stopped reading
>>
They need to first get rid of their shitty writers. Then get rid of Vince and have Stephanie strictly for PR, and have her stay away from creative and off of TV. After you get rid of the writers bring it back to 3 or 4 guys booking the shows. Heyman, Lawler, Zeb, and JR would be good with Haitch having the final say so

Cut down the amount of PPV'S, they don't need 12 a year. Stick to your core attractions

>Mania
>Rumble
>Summerslam
>Money in the bank

Sprinkle maybe 3 or 4 other ones into there and you have 8 shows a year Make them meaningful. And while you're at it, since you cut down the amount of PPV's a year. Use that left over money to make the stages significant and unique. Instead of making it look like a RAW with a generic PPV skin over it. Bring back the king of the ring tournament PPV and have it in June, instead of making the tournament to determine who gets a shitty king gimmick, make it so they can get a shot at the WWE title at Summerslam in August.

Give people a reason to watch your show from week to week. STOP HAVING REMATCHES CONSTANTLY. Nobody is going to sit through a 3 hour show to see a rematch they've seen happen 50 times in the last two months.

Make Smackdown live again and book smaller fucking venues. Make Smackdown the B-show acknowledge it as such. And make it good. It doesn't need to be a brand split but it can be a spot where lower and mid card guys can meet with NXT guys on the verge of a call up. Make it must see TV and not a RAW recap show with nothing 6 man tag matches. They book these giant ass venues for Smack down and they can't even fill half of the place. Save money. Use that extra money elsewhere.

Get rid of the authority.

Get rid of the do nothing Divas. Alicia Fox, the Bellas, Rosa Mendez, all of them. Reform the divas division as the women's division. And build it around Natalia, Sasha, Becky, and Charlotte. Send Naomi, Paige, and Summer back to NXT. Scrap the butterfly belt and bring in a women's championship.
>>
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>>793366
>bring back 14+
nicememe.webm
>>
>>793048
Why is Vince posing with all the money he has left?
>>
>>794853
>>795035
>wanting WWE to stay a TV show for children

18+
>>
>>795075
>"18+"
NXT is PG and none is complaining about it.
>>
>>795075
14+ won't change shit as long as WWE stays like this, bub.
>>
Why not get rid of the audience altogether? Stop pretending it's a real fight and just film it in a studio like any other TV show. Have real actors play the fighters, use stunt doubles for the fights. Use real writers to write the script, dialogue, match results, everything. You'd get better promos (real actors) and better-looking fights (multiple takes, special effects, etc).
>>
>>795082
Because it has a tiny audience on a wrestling-only network. If it was on an actual TV channel it would have plenty of non-marks complaining about it

>>795087
We won't know until they try. It worked last time they were in the shitter
>>
>>794650
>So do fake boots to the chest that miss by half a foot.

And they should stop doing strikes that can clearly be seen aren't connecting.

>>794665
That's not what I meant. No one said anything about "MMA gimmicks". If people wanna watch MMA they'll watch MMA.
>>
>>795178
Worst idea I've ever seen.
>>
>>795207
>We won't know until they try. It worked last time they were in the shitter

With PC being what it is if they wet full Attitude Era they'd get literally banned from television and sued and/or charged with "obscenity" or "promoting rape culture" or something equally baseless.
>>
>>795075

>People cussing will make the show better

You're the underage here.
>>
With all the great writing on TV shows nowadays, is it really that hard to bring in some competent writers?

Or are they just trying to appeal to the child/moron market and don't want any storylines that are too complicated?
>>
>>793048

Owen Hart.

If he doesn't break Austin's neck we'd still have 3:16 going strong. He's the same age as the Undertaker, who still brings the house down.
>>
NXT is the MAIN FUCKING REASON why WWE is dying.

You're getting all these "great technical wrestling" from all these faggots who come from there onto the main roster having matches that NO ONE can get invested in because there's no story behind them. And you have all this going on for THREE FUCKING HOURS.
>>
>>795499
Undertaker is running off name alone at this point. It's quite clear he can't wrestle at any decnet level.

>>795339
This
>>
>>793048
Vinny Mac
>>
>>793048
I honestly can't make it 3 hours of the same dogshit.

Also they're pushing people who have no mic skills and zero charisma while people with mic skills are told to shut up and burried to mid card matches.
>>
>>795567

Except smarks don't give a shit about mic skills, they want great "technical workrate". Which is why this product is dying, because NO ONE else wants that shit.
>>
>>795576

This is why ratings were the lowest for Rollins, he sucked on the mic and as a character/champ. But had great "workrate", whatever the fuck that means.
>>
>>795082
Because nobody watches it
>>
>>795002
Reddit: The Post
>>
>>795002
>Get rid of the do nothing Divas.

Better yet, get rid of the Divas entirely. You already permanently ruined the division by having a Bella hold the record for longest reigning Divas champ.
>>
>>795586
This. Womens wrestling has never or will ever be a draw. Its boring and just a waste of time.
Just keep divas on that Total Divas show and keep them out of the ring.
>>
Vince, Kevin Dunn, PG Programming (fuck you I am), & sponsors
>>
>>795590
>Sasha Banks vs. Bayley
>boring
>waste of time
>not a draw
>>
>>795615
it was boring
>>
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>>795615
>was boring
>was a waste a time. 20 mins that could've been given to real rookie talent like Corbin or Enzo.
>do you honestly think that crowd was there for that match? Holy fuck kek.
>>
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>>795615
Go back to your saaafee plaace on /squaredcircle/ faggot.
>>
>>795619
They were, but that doesn't make the match better. It makes the crowd worse. Just look at the NXT crowd in comparison to the Summerslam crowd. Literally a bunch of neckbeard losers and sloots.
>>
>>795633
They were a main draw that is.
>>
>>795339

>With all the great writing on TV shows nowadays, is it really that hard to bring in some competent writers?

Even if they had amazing writers, they'd be hamstrung by A. the total lack of acting talent and B. said untalented actors often have creative control over their characters, or at least some creative input.

Imagine Keanu Reeves as Jon Snow, and he gets to decide what happens to his character. Have fun writing for that.

>>795246

Wrestling is just live-action anime anyway, might as well make it official.
>>
>>793227
>The talent is terrible.
lol no. The current WWMEME roster is the most talented it has ever been in terms of in-ring action. The lack of charisma is due entirely to Vince and the horrible writers scripting everything these guys say. You think Stone Cold or Rock would have became as popular as they did if they were forced to read from scripts written by failed writers meant to entertain children and the retarded?
>>
>>795586

>get rid of the Divas entirely

I didn't know it was possible to say something this gay.
>>
>>795510
> I've never watched NXT
>>
>>795580
Son no one in the wwe except paul haybro is any good on the mic. The skill has been lost. Go back and watch attitude era shit they talk for as long sometimes longer than the fight. Seth was basically as good as it gets currently.
>>
>>795789
> muh Attitude Era

The 90s ended over 15 years ago

WWE has lots of good talkers on its roster now, but they can't possibly get a chance to show it off when they're being scripted word-for-word to what Vince wants
>>
>implying this isn't all apart of Vince's plan to have a second attitude era

Get the ratings so bad that a second coming will give him 6.00+ rating.
>>
>>795807
>WWE has lots of good talkers on its roster now

Really? Name 5
>>
>>795839
Seth Rollins
Dean Ambrose
Kevin Owens
Dolph Ziggler
Miz
>>
>>795839
Ambrose
Owens
New Day

If that's cheating, you can throw Bray, Cody, Barrett, Ryback & Rusev all on there, too.
>>
>>795328
>the Attitude Era was only 'cussing'
>having the show aimed at children is the best way forward
>RECORD LOW RATINGS

18+
>>
>>795894
WWE isn't aimed at children

It's aimed at Vince
>>
>>793804
God
>>
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>>795903
>WWE isn't aimed at children
>>
>>795919
Read the whole post, Stupid!Shinji
>>
>>795681
This. Austin himself has said he could never work full time in pg and that he feels for a lot of the guys now who have no input.
>>
>>796014
If Rock was on the roster today he'd be getting booked EXACTLY like Reigns
>>
Wrestling fans for eating shit and liking it.
>>
>>793972
don't you mean RAHHH
>>
>>795849
>Seth
Decent but he could be better if he didn't use the same goddamn tone no matter what he's talking about

>Dean
He's fine, haven't seen anything recently from him

>KO
Best out of the 5

>Ziggler
What

>Miz
Agreed, only heel that can actually get heat on the main roster
>>
>>796056
> Miz
> heat

It's not 2011 anymore m9
>>
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>>795857
>ryback
>>
>>796059
When he's not being scripted in-ring, dummy.

Watch his stuff on backstage Fallout
>>
>>796060
you mean his corny promos that he's clearly reading from off camera
>>
>>796063
> improv banter with Axel
> reading

STOOPID!
>>
>>793048
>PG
They make money off kids so it only sucks for you
>PC
Corporate bullshit and a public traded company in this pc world means we get streamlined shit
>Talent
There is talent but only a few are booked to be over
>kayfabe
is dead and there are only a few kayfabe heels like owens left
>writing
writing can't be that bad, they have top tier writers I bet.. IF they could write and not everything would be run through Dunn and Vince
>asskissers
No one seems to talk vince out of his shit tier ideas
>step
please just kill this bitch and her corporate social justice bullshit
>50/50 booking
no one gets over
>commentary
not the commentators whole fault because they get yelled in their ears all the time but CALL THE FUCKING MATCHES YOU IMBECILES and talk about heels cheating etc etc
>there are no heels
brayylmao losing every ppv killed his credibility
cena killed owens momentum
>pushing the wrong ppl via shit tier booking
it was so easy to turn ramen heel last ppv...
>>
>>796056
how can you criticize Rollins for being one-tone but then proceed to call KO the best out of the five?
>>
>>796060
Ryback is shit through and through
>>
just watch martial arts flims OP, much more entertaining and if you watch old flicks theres plenty of colorful characters. might i recommend the Venoms movies.
>>
Vinny Mac is out of touch. The writers came from soap operas. Promos are scripted word-for-word, with no room to let the wrestlers explore their characters (I guarantee Macho Man would never have any of his crazy promos in this era). With Rollins on the shelf, there are no main event heels. Lots of safe and predictable booking. There is no major competitor to WWE anymore so there's no impetus to do anything exciting to draw attention.

That's what I think.
>>
>>795849
>>795857

Hahahahahahahahaha

Thanks for the laugh
>>
>>795002
i can get behind that.
drop money in the bank add survivor series( an acutal survivor series). Drop the 20 minute promo, drop it in like in the 2nd or 3rd hour. and call up nxt and have them on smack down only.

Get rid of the bellas, eva marie and push sahsa banks. no more charlotte run, and get rid of the damn diva's belt/division!
>>
>>795849

I REALLY hope you're joking.
>>
>>795246
Actually, Lucha Underground is shot pretty much in this exact manner and it turned out great. However, you're losing out on all the ticket and merchandise sales, fan feedback and probably lots of other stuff. You're alienating your public. Also if I recall someone had mentioned that an episode of LU is worth about $25 million to produce, so there's that too. For toher promotions it might work, but WWE is just too big on scale for its own good.
>>
>>796154
you are talking about a season i guess because I highly doubt a fucking episode is 25Million
>>
>>793366
>Fire any and all wrestlers under 5'
Fuck you, lucha dragons are awesome
>>
>>796014
That's not what he said. He has a quote on what he think about PG and whether the stone cold character would work, but he didn't say he couldn't do it.
>>
>>795082

>NXT is PG and none is complaining about it.

Because only retarded smarks who only watch for great "technical crisp workrate" watch NXT, and they're trying to ruin WWE by bringing these no personality having faggots to the main roster.

These are the same smarks who are actually defending WWE saying that the wrestling is getting "better", when wrestling is the main problem.
>>
>>793048
Vijce has to be the problem. HHH runs NXT pretty much all by himself, and it's been solid for over a year. WWE on the other hand has been shaky for like the past 3 years. Just bad writing, poor angles, not pushing guys who are over, forced diva revolution bullshit etc.
>>
>>793051
You speak the truth. WWE has the shittiest fans. Like Filthadelphia iggles tier shitty
>>
>>796134
What a sophisticated rebuttal.

Eat a dick cunt.
>>
>>793366
> firing El Torito

Fuck you.
>>
>>796216
> parroting Smarkbusta opinions

You're even dumber than they are

Enzo Amore has more personality in the buzzed sides of his hair than Reigns does in his entire being
>>
>>793048
They are still trying to market WWE as mainstream entertainment when that ship had sailed years ago. They don't want to come to terms that their audience is niche because they'd have to downsize to regain efficiency, which could mean losing corporate support. They can survive with their loyal customers but they'll never grow unless they take risks to change the company. It could take years, but if they keep this up, a more efficient brand (like LU) will continue to grow and soak up their viewers.
>>
>>796216
Have you even watched an episode of NXT? The non-wrestling segments and promos are miles ahead of RAW.
>>
>>796258

And? None of that shit matter in the end.
>>
>>796261
> doesn't care about matches
> doesn't care about promos

Why are you even here?
>>
WWE is doing more than fine financially. The ratings are down but they're still making mad dosh. WWE isn't dying or going anywhere.

Why the fuck do you guys care about ratings anyways? Do you guys have WWE stock or some shit? If so, it's up even if the ratings are down so go figure.

If you don't likethe current wrestling product then don't watch but don't try to talk about shit you know nothing about. Look up the numbers and the reports, they're public and a google search away. WWE is making lota of money, just not ridiculous amounts like in its peaks. Still more than enough money to not panic like you faggots.
>>
>>796271
WWE is making "lota" money in SPITE of itself, because its core business (ticket sales + ratings) are way down and keep going down
>>
>>796273

I'm on a phone give me a break with grammar. Ratings are going down but it was expected from football and now going into the worst months for ratings. They are way lower than expected but the downwards trend was expected, they will only panic if the trend keeps going during royal rumble and wrestlemania road season.
>>
>>796283
This year's Road to WrestleMania was the lowest-rated since 1997.

And they can't use WCW eating their lunch as an excuse now
>>
>>796295

You can't judge how well or how poorly WWE is doing as a company just by ratings. Merch sale still strong. Toys still strong. Ticket is still a huge profit even as Smackdown draws like 350 people for its tapings. Network still strong (not as strongas they predicted but still making them good money at little cost). Total Divas strong.

It's a cause for concern if the TV ratings are down but not for panic. If there was panic WWE stock woild plummet. It isn't plummeting because WWE is still very profitable as a whole.

People need to stop speculating aboit things they don't evem bother to research. WWE is a public traded conpany. All the info is there for you to look and stop making such a huge deal of ratings.
>>
>>796308
> 350 people
> good

Smackdown is getitng fucking outdrawn by ICW

> stock

You don't understand the stock market. Stop.

Ratings are down
Tickets aren't selling
PPV buys no longer exist
>>
>>796311

Ticket sals as a whole, don't use Smackdown to judge how ticket sales for PPVs and Raw are. Stop making up stuff like "tickets aren't selling". Not even the WWE gives a shit for smackdown until it moves to USnetwork, why would the fans?

Let's not use stock as a metric then. Let's use profit, which WWE is still making nicely despite ratings going down for the last 6months.

What are you even try to prove or say at this point? Are you unhappy with the product? Are you worried about the company?
>>
>>796312
WrestleMania didn't even sell out this year, mate

Vince is making millions when he could be making billions.
>>
>>796316

It's a huge stadium and still time to sell most of them. Didn't the latest batch of ticket sales sold out? I could be wrong.

Anyways. Again, why do you care about how much money Vince or WWE is or isn't making? I'm legit curious.

I came to terms with not being WWE target demographic years ago and follow it as a hobby and not with the passion I did once. Fuck Punk, but he was right, the wheel will just continue to spin.
>>
>>796325
If WWE is staying stagnant and not making an effort to grow it's viewership, competitors are going to smell blood. Sure they're making a profit, but their product is lacking, has been on decline for a greater part of a year with no signs of it coming back up.
>>
Maybe you can blame the undefeated Patriots playing on Monday night for lower than usual ratings?
>>
>>795002
No, they need to bury the divas division entirely. It's a waste of fucking time because, from the beginning, it was clear creative was going to put 0 effort into it.

The Divas Revolution was one of the easiest storylines to book ever. And they even fucked that up.

Having a divas contract signing close the show is a joke.
>>
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>>796361
Contract signings are literally a crutch for drama. Lemme guess they break out into a fight. Absolute cancer.

The only contract signing worth a damn was when CM Punk made demands to Vinny Mac to bring back the WWE ice cream bars.
>>
>>793366
The WWE is all about Paul Levesque
>>
>>796378
>RAW opens
>It's another 15 minute Haitch promo
>>
>>796240

>Expecting a sophisticated rebuttal when he unironically listed Ryback as being good on the mic.

Were you born yesterday or are you just taking the piss?
>>
>>796375
My point exactly. Now add that with the fact that it's a signing for a divas title match. And they fucking close the show with it?

Paige seems to have worn out her welcome and Charlotte is Nepotism: The Champion.
>>
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Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, Neville, Stardust, Cesaro, Lucha Dragons etc.

All these people are to blame. When people tuned into wrestling in the 90's they wanted to see what crazy thing Austin was going to do, when ratings were at their highest. Was he going to destroy The Rock's car and get his skull belt back? You know? Will Sting attack the NWO again? Will the Dudleyz, Hardyz, E & C, DX, APA, do something funny backstage.

Things like that is what people actually cared about. Nowadays you turn on RAW and what, Triple H comes in and flaps his gums for 10 minutes straight then either Rollins music will hit (now replaced by Sheamus) and then Roman will interrupt, mumble some words then a main event match will inevitably be set vs. Big Show or corporate Kane or someone entirely boring.

Then follows a string of completely boring matches that last 6 minutes with 3 commercials inter-woven between them. Like who wants to sit through that nowadays? Oh wow Neville is coming up next, so what? He can do his flips and his red arrow, what's his character? what's his gimmick? Can he offer anything else other than flips that a circus clown can do?

I have to agree with that fedora who says no one watches wrestling for the matches. It has always been about way more. People didn't fall in love with Hulk Hogan and the Rock because they were good wrestlers, but because of their character
>>
>>796404
I watch wrestling for matches.

Thats also why i dont watch raw, only ppvs
>>
>>796413

I'm explaining why RAW ratings are low. Clearly if anything interesting was happening in them, people would tune in.

Even the matches themselves suck on there. Survivor Series itself was a total disaster.
>>
>>793053
FUCK THAT BUCKTOOTHED RETARD RIGHT IN HIS BUCKTOOTHED RETARD MOUTH. I WOULD RATHER MARRY MY MOTHER OFF TO SUCK VINCE RUSSO'S TWO-INCH DICK FOR THE REST OF HER UNDEAD LIFE THAN LOOK AT THAT DISGUSTING BUCKTOOTHED RETARD.
>>
>>796385
>Ryback

Is there a meme I'm missing here? Ryback wasn't on his list.
>>
>>796433
NVM just read the other post. Owens and Bray are both compelling heels on the mic though.
>>
>>796435

>Owens
>Compelling anything
>>
>>796017
No, they actually let him turn heel
>>
>>796438
You don't have to like Owens but I do. His schtick is a nice break from heels all screaming hoarse into the mic or jumping around giggling like a maniac.
>>
>>796438
He's an interesting heel unlike literally any other heel on the roster.
>>
>>796400
I just got back into it but I liked Paige well enough from the last RAW. Don't like charlotte much though.
>>
>>796441
>>796444

He's not a heel. He's a panderer who tries way too hard. And he doesn't even get heat for all the shenanigans he pulls like leaving matches or screaming at Cole, people cheer him. The only time he got heels from marks was when he beat Cena, and that was from little kids crying while smarks celebrated like a new era had arrived though it was pretty obvious Cena would get his wins back.
>>
>>796400
>And they fucking close the show with it?

didnt impact anything anyway and paige and nikki are proven not to cause significant drop offs in ratings.

>Paige seems to have worn out her welcome

with no one that matters

>Charlotte is Nepotism: The Champion.

she seems like a good soldier
>>
>>796271
This.
Ratings are worthless as long as WWE Network still goes on. If that doesn´t change there's no reason to be worried.
However don't expect a good RAW for years to come.
>>
>>796404
That was back in the 90's, folk. Nowadays people are way more interested in the matches. This is the reason why Cesaro is so loved by the fans.
>inb4 smark
>>
>>796537
Ratings tell you how many people watched the show. Where does WWE's money come from? People who watch the show. Less people watching = less money. Also, less people watching = less people viewing their sponsor's ads = angry sponsors

I'm sure Vince doesn't see thousands of people deserting the product as 'fine'
>>
>>796448
there is no third category, he's a heel.
>>
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>>796404
Seriously this, but smarks are too fucking loud to hear this out.

It's the fact that WWE caved in and started listening to fools like this that they've slowly buried the hole they're in even deeper.

Now damn near everyone is expendable since the attention spam of the majority of the audience is short
>>
Great thread /asp/ keep it up!
>>
>>796448
Can you imagine being so buttmad about someone you delude yourself this hard?
I surely can't, lads.
>>
>>793878
>>793849
Did you ever LIKE wrestling?
>>
>>796549

>Where does WWEs money come from

Network subscriptions
Stock potfolio
Merchandise sales
Movie Sales
Ticket sales for TV / PPV / House Shows
Licensing
Media / Music / Movies / Video Games

TV is literally only a fraction of where WWE income comes from. They could move off TV and still exist via Network.
>>
>>795789
>Seth was basically as good as it gets currently.

HAHAHA
>>
>>796592
>They could move off TV and still exist via Network.

LEL no TV exposure would totally fuck their ticket sales and audience generally. No casuals would watch without RAW
>>
>>796598

Over 1m people have the network
You cannot watch Raw on the network for at least 4 weeks because of TV deals
1m people would have access to raw within a week of taping via Network at a time of their choosing

Why do you think the Netflix model is so successful you raging spastic.

If Raw went off the air with other WWE programming you would immediately see a jump in Network sales
>>
>>796600

Netflix has many genres.
>>
>>796600

People subscribe because they watch RAW and see the ads for the network.
>>
>>796592
For all those things you need people who actually want to buy them. Less fans = less money as I already said in the post you're replying to
>>
>>796592
If you don't think keeping RAW valuable to advertisers on TV (I.E. keeping the ratings up) isn't priority #1 then you're a fucking retard.
>>
fuck wwe
>>
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>>793048
Kevin dunn

>remember folks if in doubt over why wwe sucks always blame kevin dunn the buck teethed mother fucker
>>
>>793052
>A shit Disney movie has a better storyline than the wwe.
This is a real problem.
>>
>>796438
He obviously completes his meals
>>
>>796587

>Mad

I'm not mad about this dude as much as you are about Roman Reigns.
>>
>>796081
KO has the edge on Seth because he rarely stutters or fucks up his lines, and even when he does he can rebound from it excellently
>>
>>793849
>There's nothing else you can do
Yes there is, you can make new stars that kids will care about after Cena. As it has been since the dawn of wrestling, the torch passes and new superstars fill the void.
>>
>>796680
You queers hating on Dunn just because me drive through burgers has a hate for him
>>
>>796325
I think you're projecting your interest in WWE's financials a little too obviously there, mate
>>
>>796375
The one on NXT this week was a nice subversion of the usual
>>
>>796404
Sorry that your childhood idols all get old, pally

If you think RAW would be any different now if those guys were around + in their primes you really don't understand why the product is as bad as it is

If Dwayne were around today, he'd be SMILIN' Rocky Mavia getting booked exactly like Reigns is now

> Oh wow Neville is coming up next, so what? He can do his flips and his red arrow, what's his character? what's his gimmick?

He could in NXT so HEY look, you just reinforced what the actual problem is
>>
>>796592
> he thinks WWE makes actual liquid money off stocks

What a mark!
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