Why does /asp/ recommend Kyokushin karate as a good striking

>>734359
>What does it have that muay thai doesn't

Honor

>>734359
>What does it have that Muay Thai doesn't?

Belts, uniforms, Japanese terminology. A bigger variety of techniques.

You'll find many schools DO train for punches to the head, but honestly not as well as Muay Thai.

You'll probably end up a little better able to take hits to the body from Kyokushin, but not substantially so. Conditioning will probably be better from MT, so that's a wash.

They're not THAT different, but if the cultural trappings of KK appeal to you more than those of MT, you're going to look forward to training more and end up getting more out of it.

>>734364
Kyo trains for self defense and with self improvement as the first and foremost goal

In muay thai you train to win matches as the first an foremost goal

Before you can go into technical details you have to look at the overall destination of each art/sport.

>>734359
>Why does /asp/ recommend Kyokushin karate as a good striking style when it doesn't even train for punches to the head?
There is more to good striking than punches to the head.

>What does it have that Muay Thai doesn't?
Bare-knuckle striking. Different techniques to accomplish the same thing in a different way. Also, its offshoots add practical kata and rudimentary grappling.

>>734359
> What does it have that Muay Thai doesn't?
1) Fancy Japanese dress.
2) Useless katas take 80% of training process
3) Absence of clinching, head punching and elbows and any effective technique in general.
4) Useless prods in the chest.
5) 'Spiritual' faggy betas thinking all this shit will prevent them from bulling in school.
Used to train kyokushin for 3 years

>>734361
*tips jingasa*

Honestly to me kyokushin's value lies in it's practitioners.

Next time you're at your local MMA club doing MT notice the quality contingent. Most likely it's tattooed trashy dudes in their late 20's early 30's, some of them with aggression issues. These are not the people I wish to be around.

Call me what you will, but I find I gain more value out of something I actually enjoy, and people are a big part of it

>>734373
> Useless katas take 80% of training process
Some kyokushin schools regard them as dancing.
> 'Spiritual' faggy betas thinking all this shit will prevent them from bulling in school.
Im about as spiritual as an iPhone and Im an adult

>>734373
Thats too bad you wasted so much time but not all kyokushin schools are like that. You should spend minimal time on katas and punches to the chest should hurt like a bitch, not be useless prods. Did your school even compete?

>>734364
>You'll probably end up a little better able to take hits to the body from Kyokushin
You've clearly never been kicked by anyone who trains muay thai properly

>>734392
That completely varies from gym to gym. I spent five years training and eventually teaching muay thai in a gym in one of the wealthiest areas in England, everyone was super nice and friendly and we had three guys who actually competed (two still do) at a very high level nationally.
And then on the flip side, if I drive half an hour in the other direction there's another muay thai gym I've trained at a few times which is in a fucking shit hole, they do kids classes and the way some of those parents spoke to their children disgusted me.
While I agree to some degree that you'll get more dickheads at an MMA gym than a tai chi class, it also depends on the established membership, people surround theselves with likeminded people, and if a dickhead goes to a gym filled with nice people they just won't fit in, regardless of the art.

>>734405
While i have to agree that the muay thai kick has an edge over the kyokushin roundhouse kick, i think kyokushin body conditioning is a lot better. Kyokushin is by far the more painful martial art out of the two.

>>734373
You are like the bizzaro version of the CMA guy who says he happens to practice at the one school that teaches REAL kungfu

They do train strikes to the head. They just don't use them in comps. as to not fuck up their hands since it is all bare knuckle.

I have yet to personally see evidence that this some how prevents them from aiming 4 or 5 inches up and punching someone in the face if they wanted to.

The main negative effect is that they tend to keep their hands slightly lower then a boxer or something. But most MMA guys keep their hands lower too (but not TKD point sparing low).

>>734407
>people surround theselves with likeminded people
Depends on the people, actually.
Our internet social group(s) bond us (in some ways), but we're certainly not all very like minded people.
Please be mindful in the future about how psychology is a valid scientific field of study, and can overrule personal experience and commonly held beliefs by people who don't study scientific psychology.

>>734428
>They just don't use them in comps.
There are some other kumite comps that allow head punches, but they require head gear.

>>734392
too bad those "tattooed trashy dudes" would beat the fucking shit out of you. get over yourself. yeah there are cunts but you can't always judge someone by how they look in martial arts.

>>734408
do they check kicks in KK? that shit hurts in MT

>>734449
It'd be delusional to always judge someone by how they look in general.

>>734453
It's effective more often than not though, most people who get visible tattoos are shitty, trashy people

>>734461
You sound like a whiny bitch. That tells me more about you than any tattoo or visible feature ever would.

>>734566
Except you can only see it when I open my mouth and reveal it to you.

>>734405

What I said is a common remark I've heard from boxers and kickboxers who have trained with people from KK - that KK fighters can take body shots better than anybody.

I'm not insulting MT by suggesting that another martial art is a little bit better at one little thing, really. I promise. You're still the bestest ever, okay, little guy?

>>734674
You know, even TKD guy can take that we're not the best in punching and throws and such, we're confident that we're the king of kicks

i think MT is angry because outside of their weird, restrictive clinch rules they have no real thing they're best at

>>734451
Hell yeah they do.

I did Kyokushin for about 5 years. It's all about the gym. Most of the reputable gyms have a direct connection to an international sanctioning body that keeps a relatively tight grip on the training regime. For instance, all the IKO1 gyms are structurally part of the same organization as the Hombu in Japan. To promote past 2nd dan, you need to go to Japan and take a promotion test in front of Shokei Matsui. IKO and it's splinter organizations produces fighters like Judd Reid, current heavy weight champ for the WKO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlN-ruKbK5w

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Kyokushin made strong inroads beyond the Japanese enclaves in California, Hawaii, and New York. For instance, there are a grand total of 7 IKO1 gyms in the US, 5 of which are in Southern California, and 4 of which are in Los Angeles.

>>734419
Kek

>>734392
If you have a phobia of people with tattoos I suggest kyokushin, don't do aikido. All of those namaste tattoos on wrinkled women and men might cause you to have a panic attack.

>>734461
for you

>>739484
because Hollywood bs?

>>734371
From what I've seen, the people who train to win matches are often better at self defense as well since they train to actually fight, and not maybe fight

>>739722
>From what I've seen, the people who train to win matches are often better at self defense as well since they train to actually fight, and not maybe fight

This so fucking much.

This is what all the RBSD and "pure" TMA fucks ignore.

>>739722
but what things are they specifically getting better at while training to win matches, that aren't getting better as much while training for self defense (generally speaking)?

>>739738

Let me turn this around for a moment.

Kyokushin (canonically) doesn't train head punches, so it's not the best example, but leaving that aside, what training do you think is going to make you better at self defense but not better at winning matches?

Let's add the condition that it has to be something you CAN train with aliveness, so that leaves out all the eyeball poking and throat chopping that you can't practice without enrollment at your gym being cut in half every practice session due to the death or severe injury of your classmates.

>>739748

There are some valid answers here of course. It's not a trick question. I would say for instance that if the win or scoring conditions for the type of competition you're training for are not similar to the win conditions for a fight or self defense situation, then you're de-training yourself. This was my experience in sport karate, which encourages participants to game the system by scoring light, tapping, uncommitted touches or overcommit to a touch like in the superman punch, where as long as you touched the other guy first it didn't matter if he knocked your helmet off afterwards.

But in the respected martial arts here on /asp/, the things you do to win a competition will win you a fight or get you out of a self defense situation as well. A punch in the face is as good on the street as it is in the boxing ring. An knee to the liver wins you a knockdown karate match or a bar fight. An ippon throw wins a judo match and does unspeakable things to a guy on the sidewalk. Training to do those things in competition is going to allow you to do them in self defense.

I'm interested in whether anybody has examples of counterproductive practices from alive martial arts that haven't already been brought up ad nauseum.

>>734392

This is true most of the time, most MT guy I know have many tatoos and this "bad boy attitude" whereas the few Kyokushin guys I've met always seemed friendly, weeabo-esque and like total bros.

On the other hand there are differnt Kyokushin offshoots that are rather "bad boy".


>>739722

Absolutely.

In vilolent encounters, pumped up with adrenaline you won't be able to think very clearly, "sport fighting" teaches you to withstand pressure and access your skills.

To be fair, I think that that the Krav Maga apporach to do drills with lots of pressure is not that bad acutally. Even though I don├Дt like KM as a system.


>>739738

First and foremost: reflexes and the ability to do damage very fast and precise.

If you drill a technique (in self defense courses) you know the theoretical way to do that technique. But if you apply it against an moving opponent you have to be much better, you learn to read your opponents movements, you learn how much power you actually need to make a technique work.

That's why many people that never sparred overestimate their techniques, because they don't know that people don't just magicall drop dread from a simple punch.

I'm not saying that stuff that Aikido or Krav Maga can't work in a street fight - just because you are used to stop your punches doesn mean you can't punch through. But a competing sport (especially with full contact) will grant that you have more experience in choosing the right amount of power and the right targets and so on..