I don't watch movie for the stunt work i watch it for the story

>>2168673
thank you

I always put ring work first because that's what pro WRESTLING is about. Stories are just icing on the cake. Icing can't hide a shit tasting cake.

>>2168673
>I don't watch UFC cause i have no reason to wanna see either guy win no real investment in anyone there.

lol whatever the fuck you're talking about you idiot lmao

>>2168682
no, pro wrestling is not about that. pro wrestling has always been about a lie told and sold. nowadays we conflate that with a ''story told'' but it's the same thing.

Most casuals watch it for the story.

That's not an insult either. Everyone still fawns over the Attitude Era, and that had possibly the heaviest story to wrestling ratio ever in WWE.

Basically, it doesn't matter why you watch it.

>>2168682
Some of the biggest drawing names when the wrestling was at hottest were far from great in ring workers , take the Rock for example if you judge him just on his in ring work flips and kicks then he's not as good as AJ's of the world are , but id still take Rock in a heartbeat over AJ , Sami, Omega. Average in ring worker who can hold on his own and can put good , GOOD not great matches but can talk and has tons of charisma is way batter asset then someone who's only selling point is his in ring work

>>2168695
Rock isn't a wrestler, he's a sports entertainer

>YOU DON'T SEE A MOVIE FOR THE ACTION
Marvel's eight billion movies would disagree with you there.

>>2168746
Wrestling isn't a movie.

There are movies about wrestling, but that's not even nearly the same thing.

>>2168752
Then why did the OP start this thread with an analogy comparing wrestling to movies.

>>2168755
Metaphor ?

So if you want to watch good story telling with compelling characters, why the fuck would you watch wrestling?

>>2168780
Cause wrestling used to tell a good story with compelling characters.

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>>2168673
>I don't watch UFC
Okay.
>cause i have no reason to wanna see either guy win
You have no reason to watch WWE just to see a handpicked dude win, either.

>>2168673
The story is garbage and inconsistent. It's childish as fuck. Grow up.

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>>2168793
And you have a reason to watch choreographed fight ?

>>2168682
You're a stupid mentally handicapped neckbeard piece of shit. PRO wrestling has never been about ring work. That's what AMATURE wrestling is. Try learning something before pretending to sound smart you filthy sweaty neckbeard.

>>2168789

Yes and people cared because they thought one guy was going to beat the fuck out of the other at the end.

>>2168800
That's exactly the fucking point, you dumbass.
There's no reason to watch fake fighting if you have no reason to watch real fighting. Otherwise you're just autistic.
>inb4 - UFC/MMA is fake
>inb4 - watching wrestling for zero-heat, zero-plot stories

>>2168709
same thing retard

>>2168780
What else would you recommend asshole? Game of thrones? Everything else on tv is garbage too

>>2168793
that's why he's saying there needs to be interesting characters and a fucking story you stupid piece of shit

>>2168795
Yeah but sweaty greasy midgets in speedos doing gay flips and kicks and slapping each other doing dance moves in a ring is totally cool and not childish right retard?

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>>2168815
Another internet tough boy. He said that he doesn't watch UFC cause there are no characters , WWE has characters but they act like they don't. If those characters were engaging then there would be a REASON to see them fight even if its a fake fight.

>>2168811
>>2168816
>i-i don't have an argument so i'll SEETH like a whittle babby

>>2168816
Beside a few of them having amateur wrestling background they are all sports entertainers

>>2168830
i actually do have an argument im sorry if you're too much of a brain damaged autistic neckbeard to be able to read

>>2168834
Pro wrestling = sports entertainment. Amature wrestling is something completely different and unrelated.

IWC wet dream was DB's fight with authority what was that if not a good story ?

>>2168811

>One thing is a legitimate sport where two people compete to beat the other by any means necessary
>The other is 2 people choreographing their contest to get a specific reaction from the crowd.

Can't imagine which one would have the in ring product matter.

>>2168846
If you think it's the second one you're wrong. No one cares about that trash in pro wrestling except filthy neckbeards. That's why the time when pro wrestling was most successful was when it was completely story and character driven.

>>2168834
>>2168837
>>2168839
>I only watch wwe so all pro wrestling is automatically sports entertainment

just shut the fuck up already if you don't know what you're talking about

>>2168854
IWC will always try to chase away casuals and casuals will never care about scripted fights if they don't find characters cool and they wont find them cool if all they do is have fake fights no matter how cool that fake fights look

>>2168856
Sorry to burst your bubble dumbass but yeah all pro wrestling is sports entertainment. And wwe was the only promotion that ever did it right. That's why they are the most popular while your stupid indie feds can't sell out high school gyms. But wwe has fallen a long way since they did it right so you should be glad they cater to your smelly neckbeard needs now like all the other failed PRO WRESTLING promotions out there.

>>2168854

So Undertaker threw Mankind off the Cell because he really wanted to hurt him then?

Are you really this fucking stupid?

>>2168826
>>2168673
>WWE is cool
>WWE is a PG childrens tv show
kek

>>2168673

Most movies don't have action sequences that make up the majority of their runtime. The ones that do are usually kung fu flicks and 'dumb' killfest action movies. If you're going to allot that much time for action in your movie, it had better be fucking good action. Imagine watching something like Enter the Dragon, but with some talentless schmuck in the lead role instead of Bruce Lee. Everything would look like shite and the movie wouldn't have the narrative or emotional depth to make up for the fact that it now looks stupid and has no style. Same thing with an action movie like John Wick. Yeah, it's more story focused, but do you think anyone would like it if the stuntmen were replaced with hacks and the awesome fight choreography was replaced with sloppy arm flailing awkwardness? Fuck no.

Story and characters are still obviously really important. Matches need to have a reason for happening, and the fans need to have a reason to get behind the wrestlers. But what's the point on even telling a story through wrestling in the first place if the wrestling itself is crap? In the end of the day, even shows that with more of a focus on the 'entertainment' side of things than the wrestling (like WWE), still allot a large portion of the runtime to the wrestling matches themselves. Why give your audience that much action if you're not going to make the action look as good as it possibly can?

>>2168864
thats network fault it forced WWE to carter to IWC they depend on hardcore fans to get a subscription so they gotta do what they gotta do i guess

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>>2168822
>implying
UFC is literally just putting up people talking shit to each other during conferences and it creates better stories than WWE dancing around with their uninspired squabbles.
How that gives him reason to watch WWE, but no reason to watch UFC is beyond me.

>>2168828
>internet tough guy
Back to YouTube.

>UFC
>no characters
They literally have a fucking mick talking shit to everyone and dragging two belts around, provoking a boxing legend for a fight. On the other side of the spectrum they have a suicidal and potentially autistic woman-fighter fallen from grace thanks to two literally whos beating her face in.
And of course you have Phil.
A lot of chatacters.

>WWE has characters but they act like they don't
They have and they act like they have, but it's either the same old shit or it's too bland.

>If those characters were engaging
>then there would be a REASON to see them fight
If you're talking about UFC, then most people get engaged just by Conor generating heat and being in the main event. Most people watching UFC don't get engaged for the fucking fighting. Otherwise they'd watch some Russian gore.

>>2168869
Taker didn't throw him off. Mankind threw himself off.
>at this moment anon realized watching tv meant for children is a waste of time

>>2168861
They will care if they bring back cool characters and edgy stories. Regardless of how shitty or fake the fights are. They ate it up before and they will eat it up again if you just bring back badass characters and stories. That's all that needs to happen. Casuals don't give a shit about the matches at all.

>>2168673
OK

>>2168869
How did i imply that at all? Are you seriously mentally challenged?

>>2168870
WWE is not cool. WWE used to be cool.

>>2168864
But that's wrong. Literally only WWE calls itself sports entertainment.

Oh and it's obvious you don't actually watch indie promotions when you think they still have events in high school gyms. This why I told you to just stop talking since you obviously don't know a single thing you're saying.

Too bad WWE will never allow their talent just be themselves and s root everything to a t. You can flippy manlets sell as long as people can relate to them.

>>2168883
>wwe ever being cool
if you are an edgy virgin probably yeah

>>2168885
Script* everything.

>>2168878

Actually they probably wont. Back when wrestling was at its peak the majority of people thought it was still real, where now everyone knows it's fake so they wont care about shitty writing and acting from failed football players.

>>2168876
Im gonna beat you up. No i am gonna beat you up. UFC promo. Engaging yeah right . WWE when done right pay attention to story leading up to first mania match between Stone Cold and Rock. Look at the story of Rock turning baby face. Look at the Hollywood Rock run. Look at Hogans heel turn.

>>2168895
It was at its peak in the attitude era and by then everyone knew it was fake.

>>2168876
My first UFC match i looked forward. Velasquez vs Santos 1 waited for several hours ends in 40 sec or so. Say whatever u want about WWE but at least when u pay to watch match u waited a long time to see its gonna take more time to end then i need to take my popcorn.

>>2168884
You stupid filthy neckbeard retard sports entertainment means pro wrestling. It doesn't matter who calls themselves what. Anything that involves scripted wrestling is sports entertainment = pro wrestling. Hang yourself you disgusting fat smelly neckbeard.

>>2168887
What do you consider cool? ufc? njpw? fuck off

>>2168897
This is sad. Read these anons.
>>2168887
>>2168883

WWE is lame af. Promos are cringe, gimmicks are cringe. Your admittedly defending a pg childrens tv show since it used to be good.

>>2168897
>Im gonna beat you up. No i am gonna beat you up

That was literally all the was to Mayweather/Pacuiao, a fight that made almost as much money as WWE makes as a company for the entire year.

>>2168907
>I can't give a good rebuttal so i'll just keep throwing insults like a child

I think the funniest part is that I didn't once insult wwe for calling itself sports entertainment, yet just the fact that i'm correcting a babby makes you go into an autistic frenzy.

>>2168873
Actually no the wwe backed itself into a corner when they eliminated all cool characters and edgy storylines with the pg era. Then the only fans that remained watching were the smelly neckbeards who only care about in ring shit. So now since these are the only ones left stupid enough to keep watching wwe they has to cater to them if they dont wanna go out of business. But it was wwe that pushed away the casuals by going pg. It wasn't the neckbeards or the network that did it. By the time the network was a thing it was already far too late.

>>2168912
Do you have a sports team you like ? By your logic if they are good and at top then thats good. But as long as they hit a bad time you should give up on them and move on. You stand by your team no matter if they are playing for a championship or struggling at the bottom and you wanna see them be what they once were.

>>2168920

WWE was losing their audience way before the PG era.

>>2168897
And what the fuck do you think WWE promos are?
At least in UFC they don't beat around the bush and go all out on the heat. Because that's what you want for a fight. Fucking heat.

>>2168905
>fighters that actually fight aren't fucking around and want to win, and win as fast as possible at that
Quality > quantity.
You are the same people that cried over Omega vs Okada being a 40-minute spot spam.

>>2168911
At least UFC and NJPW have respectable fanbases, one is chads who respect the art of legitimate combat, and the other is cute asian bitches who cum at the sight of the top company guys.

>>2168919
It doesn't matter if njpw calls itself pro wrestling. They are still sports entertainment whether you like it or not. You can deny this all you want but it will remain true.

>>2168816
If you really believe that, then YOU are the retard.

>>2168926
Filthy neckbeard confirmed. Hang yourself. Both are shit and both have autistic fanbases just like wwe.

>>2168933
What's the difference? Pro wrestler = sports entertainer.

>>2168921
Nah. That's not my logic. For one you cannot compare WWE to an actual sport. It's closer to certain type of vydia, and to tell you the truth if my favorite vydia from.back in the day starts to suck, I will stop playing it like any rational person.

>>2168928
>>2168934
>>2168936
>if I keep saying i'm right, it'll eventually be true

that's not how an argument works, but keep trying seething babby

>>2168876
A bunch of idiots talking trash like kids in middle school doesn't involve a story and isn't cool. And i never said anyone had any reason to be watching wwe right now so you're the one implying.

>>2168954
I swear i can smell you through the screen. Instead of bitching about it then tell me why they're different you filthy neckbeard.

UFC will never have it's own Rock , and if their own fighters are as good with exceptions of Conor and Rhonda who are marketable they wouldn't need to pay millions to Punk and Brock to fight on their shows. And they would do the same thing if they had a chance with a solid number of other guys in WWE on other hand WWE never used any of UFC names to sell out their events Rhonda segment wasn't announced for mania.

>>2168965
Sports Entertainment = less focus on the wrestling and more focus on outlandish characters and stories

Pro Wrestling = less focus on the stories and more on the actual wrestling, still stories involved but a lot simpler

how is this a difficult subject to understand jesus christ

>>2168922
Not at the alarming rate that they started losing them when they switched to pg.

>>2168965
Hey by any chance are you the mgtow autist?

>>2168990
you don't know that. wwe has been around for decades. The ufc has been around for a shorter period of time and had already garnered mainstream attention

>>2168994
Im talking about the technical definition. At the end of the day if you do some research on the history of the sport it's all the same shit. Scripted wrestling with stories and pre determined winner and loser. Now even if we go by your definition and assume they are two different things basically that would mean that pro wrestling is the gayest thing in the world and no one would have any reason to watch it whatsoever. Cuz it's still just as scripted as sports entertainment but without the cool characters and the stories. So why the fuck would anyone not autistic watch pro wrestling assuming it was actually different from sports entertainment? Why would you wanna watch two sweaty midgets in speedos doing a bunch of scripted dance moves? Do you get off to that shit or something?

>>2169022
im not mgtow but yes

>>2169030
you imply that "cool stories and characters" (spoiler: they aren't cool) are somehow not as gay as fuck as scripted dance moves

we're both faggots but at least i'm not afraid to admit it, you're just pissed I prefer one aspect of a gay as fuck hobby over your own favorite aspect

>>2169063
The stories and wrestlers today are just as gay as the in ring aspect but the wrestlers and stories during attitude and ruthless aggression eras were definitely cool.

>>2169063
wrestlers are just really athletic actors. i want to watch a good tv show, not a fucking homoerotic tumbling routine like the young cucks put on. spotfests and the no selling indie shitters that partake in them are cancer. give me foul mouthed beer chugging roided out mastadons that can actually sell that they are tough, pissed off, and want to win a belt.

>>2169068
>attitude and ruthless eras being cool
now I see the problem

18+

>>2169075
What era was cool then retard?

>>2169071
i'd rather have those athletic spotfests over edgy gay shit for edgy virgins like yourself

>>2169082
it's a tv show. if you want to be impressed by athletic ability watch real sports. sounds to me like your thing might be figure skating you fucking queer.

>>2169080
pro wrestling/sports entertainment was/isn't/never will be "cool"

it's insecure normie fucks like you who think otherwise

>>2169063
>>2169082
Then pro wrestling isn't for you. Stick to your gay ufc shit or go to the circus or something.

Story vs game play. Most want both, some prefer metal gear, others enjoy meatboy. What's fucking wwe is that they can't decide who to cater to

>>2169085
Yes i understand if you look at the bigger picture it's pretty fucking gay. But what the fuck isn't? Everything is fucking gay nowadays. If you think ufc or something is cool then you're a hypocrite.

>>2169090
The difference between me and you is that's I can admit something is gay as fuck and still like it, while you have to have to pander for excuses like "manly" and "cool" to justify why you like gay shit.

You like sports entertainment, I like pro wrestling, it doesn't mater which is right or wrong, they're both gay as fuck in the end. So let's just move on yeah?

>>2169100
Sure but i ain't no fucking normie.

Number of five star matches in a year doesn't equal ratings , having cool characters on your show does. What event would drive more people. Rock vs Taker , or Zayn vs Rollings ? What match would bring more mainstream eyes to WWE? You think those casuals would care how good match is between Zayn and Rollings ? That being said that doesn't mean that WWE should get rid of Zayn , Rollings and rest of spot guys they have their own place on the show and they are also needed. Don't get rid of them just dial down on flips and kicks and give us some characters and story as well

>>2169090
if everything is gay nothing is gay lol FAGGOT

>>2169100
You fundamentally misunderstand that it's a tv show. You're not impressing anyone by calling something that isn't pg garbage """""""""edgy"""""""""" you fedora. a tv show that has grown men fighting doesn't have to be gay as fuck - it's gay as fuck because there's no developed storyline behind it to justify it and it's horribly over choreographed shit.

WWE can't be cool if they keep letting vanilla midgets win over huge jacked up guys , its far from believable. WWE is fake but that is not an excuse to insult someones intelligence. Who the fuck in a normal mind would believe that if DB and Batista or Triple H legit fight DB had any chance of winning ? Underdog story is nice once in a while but it has to have some limits.

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>>2168673
>he watches action/martial arts movies for the story

>>2168695
Rock was fucking great, you shut your mouth

>>2169125
Even action/martial arts movies have story.

>>2168673
Well the problem is the story is shit too. You expect people to believe a jacked guy to be the "underdog" but at the same time never loses? And that's wwe's formula for the top guy since 10 years ago, for two different guys.

>>2169106
They really do need to get rid of zayn though. Maybe keep rollins but make him shave that disgusting neckbeard and never turn him heel again.

>>2169129
Punk/Cena story that he is referencing had Cena as an obstacle not as an underdog , besides OP says that they need better engaging stories not that the ones that they have now are good.

>>2169132
they need him to keep his beard to cover his disgusting giraffe neck. gross armenian iowan autist

>>2169128
Yes but the story is always an excuse to lead to the meat of the movie which is the actual action parts, the choreography that people pay to watch and be entertained by. If the story is good that's great, it's a tremendous bonus but without the good action scenes an action movie is failing in its purpose. You can try to seem smarter by saying you watch them for the story but that just makes you sound dumb and like you're just ashamed to admit you enjoy something simple and basic.

>>2169151
Why can't you have both in one movie? Action movie with good action and story is a great stuff.

>>2169151
but admitting you like loud bang bang and boom boom makes you sound smart!? lol what? love it when retards try to justify their tasteless cluelessness.

>>2169151
There's no way you bingo hall dweebs can be this dense. The story is what makes your high spots worthwhile. If there's no story giving your precious 9 star match a purpose, it's just to oiled up skinnyfats they could have pulled out of the crowd tickle fighting each other. The story comes first because it's needed to sell the match.

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>>2168682
Wrestling for the sake of wrestling wears thin...
Take for example:
>CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION UNTIL 205 LIVE STARTED

You need story to keep people engaged with the ring work. A great story can turn a technically proficient match into a masterpiece.

You have to balance story and ring work.

If you want just the sport of it, the UFC is that way buddy. But WWE is performance art, first and foremost. While both are important, Story>Ringwork

>>2169144
If he has to keep that filthy beard then id rather they just get rid of him completely.

>>2169121
>who would believe that x could beat the bigger y
Many people would actually now that the UFC has taken off. A trained dude DBrys size can easily take some juicehead in a straight up fight

>>2168826
>Watches wrestling
>Not for the wrestling

I think you're the retard. I like storylines but lets face it, how many good feuds are there in a year? Like two. I feel so bad for you that 2017 WWE has compelling interests to you.

>>2169154
Never said you can't, even said it's better, but focusing on the story in a genre where story is typically used entirely as an excuse to set up the things people pay to watch and want to see is silly. It'd be kind of like choosing to watch a Romeo and Juliet play specifically for the duel scene demanding it be an amazing display of swordsmanship, you're kind of missing the point.

>>2169157
Admitting you can enjoy something dumb precisely because it's dumb and having no delusions about what it does or doesn't do is rather smart, yes. Takes some degree of self-awareness. Being in denial and trying to argue the dumb thing you like is actually super deep is rather childish.

>>2169158
I did say the story's used to set up the subsequent fight scenes/choreography, the match in pro wrestling, yes, we're in agreement. But it's there to set up the main thing that people want to see. Pro wrestling deals in the basest forms of storytelling and those work because no one expects narrative genius, they just want something simple to set up the action and carry a degree of investment.

>>2169182
Arguably the UFC and many fighters also sets up storylines because they know it helps draw dimes. About 99% of the shittalking is never ever serious and all the "tense" faceoffs and posturing and "hold me back bro" moments are just manufactured to get more viewers. Dominick Cruz, then UFC bantamweight champion, openly admitted that his last challenger only got the nod because Cruz and the guy's team had a rivalry dating back years so people would pay to see the feud unfold.

>>2169195
I never said 2017 wwe had any compelling interests to me. I cant stand it. Also pro wrestling isn't about wrestling. What you're looking for is ufc.

>I don't watch kung fu movies for the kung fu, I watch it for the story!
>I don't watch comedy movies for the comedy, I watch it for the story!
>I don't watch wrestling for the wrestling, I watch it for the story!
The only reason obese marks say shit like this is because WWE has always been shit at actual quality wrestling. And your """"argument"""" might have a leg to stand on if WWE were putting out compelling storylines on a regular basis which of course not even the most markiest of obese marks would claim they were. Also; 99% of every single wrestling story in WWE is simply a different variation of 'I DON'T LIKE THIS GUY SO I'M GONNA BEAT HIM IN MATCHES'.

>>2169234
Pro wrestling isn't about wrestling. Kill yourself.

>>2169298
>Pro wrestling isn't about wrestling
>this is what obese marks actually believe
Fucking KEK.

>>2168961
>A bunch of idiots talking trash
Same thing's in WWE, though.

>doesn't involve a story
It does just as much as WWE's stories based around talking trash.

>isn't cool
People lost their shit over "who the fuck is that guy", so I'd say it depends on the lines.

>And i never said anyone had any reason to be watching wwe
Then why the fuck do you say something as stupid as "hurr I have no reason to watch UFC because muh cheer for good guy and bad guy"?

>you're the one implying
K.

wrestling is fake i dont care about what they do in the ring as long as there is a good story this is why bingohall feds cant sell more than 200+ tickets to mostly fat reddit users or bored locals if you dont have a good character or story nobody will care and trust me any casual fan who watches wwe ( the only the company that matters ) they dont care how good you can fake wrestle because they know its fake and they certainly dont care how a indie wrestler "traveled the world" fake wrestling


its really sad that there are people out there who legitimately believe ring work matters the most

look at what made wrestling popular since the beginning, guess what...it wasn't because of ring worked

>>2169962
>wrestling is fake i dont care about what they do in the ring as long as there is a good story
lol the story is even more fake, you fat fuck.

>>2169978
so is almost every tv show am i supposed to watch it for how many sick flips they do

>>2169994
>movingthegoalposts.png
There's a reason why it's called professional WRESTLING and not professional TERRIBLE STORYTELLING WITH THE OCCASIONAL MEDIOCRE WRESTLING MATCH.

>>2169999
sorry but numbers show that in ring work isnt what makes the majority of people watch sports entertainment

>>2168673
>So whats with the obsession over in ring work?

The stories expressed physically in the ring. The story told outside the ring should get you more emotionally invested in the match, caring who wins, and influence how the match is told.

If two people are heated at each other and have personal beef that involves shit like possible cucking, beating up of dads, racism, or whatever, I don't expect to immediately see some mat wrestling as soon as the bell rings.

I want a combination of a good story and good creative action scenes in a movie. I want a combination of good story and wrestling in a wrestling match.

The story is more important. If there is no story/stakes its just two guys fake fighting. If i want to see that, I could just watch UFC. Casuals want larger than life characters and compelling stories, then there is emotional investment to see the guys meet in the ring even if they know its fake.

>>2169125
>>2168673

OP is the kind of nigga who plays street fighter games for their storylines LMFAO

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>>2168811
>the S E E T H I N G in this post
lol
talk about gotten to

>>2170062
True, anon is seething. But this just confirms that caring about in-ring ability and work rate and shit like that is a troll. None of that matters at all if the story behind it is garbage.

>>2169999
You don't know what pro wrestling is retard. Just look it up and you'll see for yourself it was never about the wrestling you autistic neckbeard.

>>2169311
Pro wrestling or sports entertainment has never been about wrestling.

>>2169999
Yeah, the reason is called kayfabe. You're getting worked you obese smark sweat junky

Everyone watches for the story. Thats why starcade 97 was wcws biggest buyrate. And wm23/28 for wwe. Story.