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Eternal HEMA General: Grappling Edition

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Historical European Martial Arts Thread
Please keep it kind and on topic. Also no SCA/Reenactment/HMB please.

Essential Information:

http://www.communitywalk.com/user/view/81443
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=619536
http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=686
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.hroarr.com/
http://www.middleages.hu/english/martialarts/treatise_database.php

old thread : >>2018589
>>
First for three hundred replies of /pol/ getting triggered, with swordfighting and history interspersed between.
Keep it classy, folks. HEMA is awesome. Racism not so much.
>>
>tfw you friend buys you a gift but forgets that, unlike him, you're not left-handed.

Have to sell it :(

>itt: Post-Christmas HEMA feelz
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>>2096442

Why are you being a cuck in a dead af general? lmao stupid nigger
>>
>>2096419
So what is the best sword style? What I mean is compared to MMA, BJJ turned out to be the most dominant single art that revolutionized martial arts. So what is the BJJ of sword fighting? Is there one style that just seems to beat everything else? Do sword styles even compete against each other?
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>>2096521
>BJJ turned out to be the most dominant single art that revolutionized martial arts
But that's wrong. BJJ is the thing that proved you have to know grappling in order to be successful and it's the one that blew up the most, but it's not the most dominant single art.
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>>2096419
I still have to proof-read Hergsell, but early January should be the time I get part II (saber) and III (stuff like how to fight against a 'natural fencer', code of honor and so on) of "Die Fechtkunst" out.

ALSO STILL WAITING FOR MY FOOKIN' SABERS
>>
How many of you own a sharp to match whatever style it is you train? Are you aspie enough to think you'd ever use it in a self defense (or other) situation?
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>>2096874
>How many of you own a sharp
I'm planning to get a sharp Longsword, Messer and Saber but atm I've spent so much money on new equipment I'm taking it slow now.

>Are you aspie enough to think you'd ever use it in a self defense (or other) situation?
Maybe if I'm home while someone breaks in since I don't own a gun.
>>
>>2096874
I plan to have one sharp for every weapon I train. I currently own one antique sword that has no blade on it. it's a British Rifle Officer's sword, pattern of 1845. So it's just about as real as a sword can get.

I'm putting off buying a sharp for now, because I will be going to school.
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>>2096517
>>>/pol/
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>>2096485
Wat. It's practically symmetrical. The only difference seems to be the top ringing, who the fuck cares about that?

Keep and use bro.
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>>2096830
You're great, thanks for your work
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>>2096874
>Are you aspie enough to think you'd ever use it in a self defense (or other) situation?
Nobody is that fool
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>>2096485
The fuck is that a hilt to?
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>>2097691
Looks like rapier furniture to me.
>>
Which type of fencing or manual would you recommend to study once you start getting better at Fiore's stuff and want to try something new?
Meyer? Liechtenauer? Something totally different like Polish Sabre or Rapier?
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>>2098248
Fiore longsword's one of the most boring things *in* HEMA if you ask me, it's a shame so many clubs start on it. Almost everything's more fun, personally I like Spanish rapier best, but probably the most fun sparring for the amount of practice put into it is military saber. Most saber systems are a bit superficial, they don't stand up very well to more complete systems like backsword or Bolognese sidesword, but you can get into them and enjoy sparring against others in the same system with relative ease. If you get tired of the limitations you can also branch out, although military saber footwork is very different from something like Bolognese so it doesn't adapt very strongly.
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>>2096830
Thanks so much anon.
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>>2098248
You can either go one handed (or two with buckler) and go Bolo, or maybe you like to venture further on the long sword and check out Meyer.
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>>2098407
Maybe because you can't do much with military saber with no gear.
Also, you better begin with something that is... a whole system, before trying something that isn't.

It give you the basis that will you need everywhere.

+Longsword poster boy of HEMA, Vadi usually don't bother using sword, etc. Fiore is kinda balanced.
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>>2098441
>>2098248
>You can either go one handed
But Fiore has one-handed plays...
Nonetheless, Bolognese sidesword seems to be a logical choice, there's even a good deal of terminology that is common to both system.
>>
>>2098457
>Maybe because you can't do much with military saber with no gear.
What? You can do at least as much in military saber with no gear as you can do in longsword with no gear.
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>>2098407
>Fiore longsword's one of the most boring things *in* HEMA if you ask me
Maybe do lots of dagger and abrazare and actually use his integrated system
Grappling German longsworders is fun since they almost always panic.
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>>2098675
>Grappling German longsworders is fun since they almost always panic.
Not sure where you from, but we train grappling a lot in German Longsword. Same goes for disarmaments and pommel strikes.
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>>2098729
Lots in the treatises, but a lot of schools that teach German longsword seemingly ignore grappling and dagger for some reason.
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I was reading the ruleset for a tournament and apparently dropping your sword resulted in a point for your opponent, unless you dropped it on purpose to do grappling or something like that. I'm interested in watching some examples of this, has anyone found a video of sparring with something similar? I never tried doing it, but now I'm interested since in our club we also study some abrazare
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>>2098481
>>2098441
>>2098407
Bolognese, so Manciolino or Marozzo?
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>>2100226
Depends on which weapon, sword and buckler you're pretty much left with those two, but if sword alone, you should go with Dall'Agocchie and read what Viggiani has to say about it.

Sword and dagger / cape, the three of them have to say about it (but Manciolino?).
>>
>>2100240
I have a translation of Manciolino's Opera Nova and there is single sword, sword & buckler / rotella / cape / dagger / sword and polearm plays. I haven't delved too deep into it yet though.
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>>2100250
>>2100250
I didn't read Manciolino but iirc, Marozzo derives his single sword from his sword and buckler (and companions in general), maybe it's the same with Manciolino but I couldn't be able to say.

Then Dall'Agocchie starts with sword alone and expand to sword and dagger than cape. This last book is fairly short though, if you restrain yourself to this three weapons, it's only something like 60 pages, but there's quite a lot of stuff to be extract from it.
Between those three, it seems like the variations are there because of different sensibilities (parrying with true edge rather than false edge, starting from weapon rather than this other one, preferring to thrust rather than cut) in the end, it's the same tradition. As I say, you should ask yourself what you want out of it and pick the author most aligned with your views (but read them all anyway).
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>>2098407
I take it you never actually studied Fiore, then? Pommels to the face, kicks to the groin, eye gouges, all sound real real boring.

Enlighten us and tell why, exactly, any other longsword is more exciting than Fiore.
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>>2101297
after you've gouged out so many eyes it just feels repetitive, you know?
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So since I'm a wrestler, if I was transported back in time to the 15th century what are the chances of me being an effective warrior? I'd obviously need to spend a lot of time mastering the intricacies of blades combat, but would I have an edge? It seems like there are a lot of treatises out there which talk about how wrestling/grappling was a requirement for most soldiers in the 14-15th centuries.
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>>2101334
From what I understood, you don't want to spend half your time on the ground with the opponent. Wrestling would be useful but you need to use some kind of weapon training to finish your opponent safely and quickly.
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>>2101334
If you're talking modern collegiate wrestling, then you would certainly have the necessary skillset to be a good fighter, but you would also have to unlearn a good amount as well, since whoever goes to the ground first in a swordfight usually dies.

Because you have a weapon, you don't need to follow your enemy to ground to effectively kill him, as it is in unarmed combat. Maintaining a high posture and solid footing is more important than ground work if you and your enemy have weapons.
>>
>>2101297
He's talking about the sword plays not involving grappling, which are very limited and lacking in variety. Which makes sense because, and I'm typing this in all caps so everyone understands this:

FIORE'S MANUSCRIPT IS MISSING OVER 60 PAGES OF MATERIAL

We basically have a fraction of what he thought was important in fighting, and it's likely we'll never know more than what we have. Which is a damn, sorry shame.
>>
>>2101347
>>2101398
Makes sense. In wrestling, I've developed the ability to choose whether or not I want to go to the ground which I think would be helpful in this particular autistic fantasy scenario. If it was one on one combat with weapons, is being on top generally regarded as advantageous? That's something that I think wrestling has given me.
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>>2101334
>>2101436
Being on top would be advantageous, but you have to keep in mind that EVERYONE wrestled at that time period. It's not like you'll be Royce Gracie at UFC 1 with some art nobody's ever seen before.

Also since you have no weapons experience, you'll probably get fucked up standing. In unarmed combat, most grapplers can eat a shot or two to get into takedown range, but you can't do that when sharp pointy things are involved.
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>>2101436
>get on top
>sharp piece of steel get involved
>get stabbed anyway
Wrestling isn't all in Hema but it can be a damn good start.
>>
Happy New Year.

I am a complete novice to HEMA but have trained in Hapkido and wrestled some. What weapon, system, or manuals would you all recommend me?

My only real weapons training to date has been knives and canes.

Thank you.
>>
Why are rapier/sidesword guards so expensive?

I know their complexity makes them hard to make, but they cost like half as much as the sword itself.
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I think I'm going to order an Albion Liechtenauer. Just wanted to share.
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>>2101957
>looks at the price
>tfw can't afford one
Have fun with it anon.
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>>2101957
Nice I'd like a Ringeck. I can afford it to but I just wouldn't. Price is absurd.

>>2096442
nah the last general was ironic because HEMA is full of shitposting SJWs like yourself. Racism is not an issue in HEMA whatsoever.
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>>2100226
why not both?
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Do you think Peter Johnson's research will help sword makers and especially feder makers to bring swords that handle totally differently to life or that it'll just some gimmick for Nerds?
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>>2101898
>I know their complexity makes them hard to make

You just answered your own question.
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Is this general for olympic fencing too?
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>>2104322
nope, I think that's >>>/s/
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>>2103545
It would be extremely nice
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>>2101297
If you want to do anything other than just use your longsword as a prybar for grappling, then yes, Fiore's boring as shit. He's not wrong, literally anything's more fun unless you're a grappler in disguise.
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>>2101410
This is interesting, heard it for the first time. Do you have any further info?
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>>2098757
>a lot of schools that teach German longsword seemingly ignore grappling and dagger for some reason.
Because muh Windshield-Wiper of Pain or muh Budgie-the-Little-Helicoptor of Doom.
>M-muh Vor...
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>>2101801
HEMA isn't a practical pursuit, so just pick what suits your fancy or what you have being taught nearby.
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>>2101801
Patenostrier's rapier...

Heh some suggestions are better than no suggestions!
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>>2104906
So...Fiore is boring if you fight under very specific limitations that prevent you from using all of your faculties to defeat an opponent? Would you rather stand in close distance to your opponent and take turns swinging? Sure sounds fun to me...I'd rather take his sword, or throw him to the ground and kill him thanks.
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>>2096521
First of all what the fuck do you mean by style?
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>>2106893
I guess he meant schools and traditions.
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>>2096521
It depends, Liechtenauer is supposed to be some anti-meta school, Meyer is Liechtenauer with rapiers and sidesword brought into the mix, Fiore is about grappling the shit out of people once you closed in or using blinding powder on the poor fucker's faces. It depends.
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anyone know of any HEMA groups in Hawaii?
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>>2106573
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>>2111557
>blinding powder on the poor fucker's faces
And grappling hooks.
Don't forget the grappling hooks.
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I want to get into HEMA, but there's no groups within reasonable distance because I live in bumfuck nowhere.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you that I'm not expecting it to be a good substitute for real sparring practice with other people, but how far would I be able to get by just copying things out of treatises by myself?
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>>2115805
Not very far, but just having no group or experience doesn't mean you can't start one.
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>>2111557
>Meyer is Liechtenauer with rapiers and sidesword brought into the mix
No, it isn't. Meyer is Marksbrüder tradition, it incorporates some Liechtenauer techniques, or at least he naming, but it is vastly different from the earlier German school.
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>>2115805
You need other people to attain muscle-memory levels, bro. And you ain't the only one.
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Does anyone here have experience with training with the quarterstaff? I can't find much info on the subject.
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>>2115805
Start a Fiore study group with a few friends. Get some people from some other martial arts club like kendo, iaido, krav maga, wrestling, boxing or whoever can help get some of the basics right. Then pommel the shit out of them.
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>Currently have a mask and gloves for safety gear
>considering buying a gorget, elbow/forearms and plastron or a jacket next

It's one or the other. Hard armor or the padded coat. Which will be better for long term training?
I'm gonna be a broke ass college student for the next eight months. So I'm not expecting to buy anything.

We currently spar with nylon longswords. A combination of rawlings and black fencers.
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>>2117107
Get a jacket. It's a single big purchase. The hard parts can be picked up piece meal or made of IKEA chopping board in your student kitchen.
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>>2117181
You make a good point. I'll pick up the jacket as a send-off into poor student land.
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>>2115562
You use shitty memes, and probably spar with no thrusting or grappling. Gfy.
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>>2117107
This guy >>2117181 obviously had the right of it right off the bat, I just wanted to add that gorgets are super fucking cheap, a hockey throat protector won't set you back more than £15-£20.
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Besides, a mask, jacket and gloves is sufficient for friendly Feder fencing.
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>>2117890
Italian long sword fighters are so ass pained because they get absolutely destroyed in every tournament.

Just because you don't want to use your sword for a sword fight it doesn't mean your system is superior. German longsword has plenty thrusting and grappling.
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>>2122154
Yeah you put an italian fencer into a tournament that strips him of 2/3 of his arsenal and he doesn't do well. Huge shock.
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>>2122154
Mike Prendergast represents well in Longsword competitions, recognisably fencing from Fiore.

I think Fiore is a good place to start HEMA, but if you're serious about training Longsword then Meyer or Earlier Lichtenauer tradition are far more fleshed out systems.
>>
>>2111557
>>
>>2122305
Germans have the same limitations you idiot, they just learn how to fight with the sword instead of using it as a bar-tool to pin people.
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>>2122605
You're not swordfighting.
You're fighting with a sword.
Grappling happens familam. And often going JOHN CENA leads to positive outcomes.
>>
You know grappling is fun.
But, I feel like in a real swordfight, I'd want to keep a good distance whenever possible.
Grappling is for when the close-range engagement happens. But people sometimes just try to go for it initially, which seems silly.

I think we forget that these are supposed to be really fucking sharp huge pointy knives.
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>>2123342
>I think we forget that these are supposed to be really fucking sharp huge pointy knives.
Yes, I also get the feeling that happens far too often.
Getting hit isn't so bad when you have lots of safety gear, but in an actual fight with sharps and without any armor I don't think anyone would 'go in' immediately, it's just too dangerous
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>>2123362
I do sabre, and a lot of the sources are quite conservative about getting close. I like that mindset. It really feels like "this is a big knife".
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>>2123673
Sabre is pretty defensive in general IME, lots of systems go hard on the lunge-recover, give-parry dynamic no matter what, preferring to only hit on the initial lunge or else GTFO over advancing into a potentially advantageous following position (which of course is more risky aswell) in closer measure.
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>all my neighbours think I do kendo because of the gear
>>
>Matt Easton wears a FAR shirt
The only time I browse the YouTube comments. Every time, someone from /pol/ gets triggered.
And it's endless entertainment. Thank you.
>>
>>2127057
Him and David Rawlings totally do it on purpose for our shameless pleasure and it's all the more delicious.

Also,
>polish sabre has no historical manuals...
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>>2127121
>This video is shirted for your pleasure
Also he wasn't wrong. There are no direct sources for polish saber that survive.
Polish saber is definitely cool. But it's like Roland W's viking shield.
>>
Anyone saw sword musket and machinegun? Can't see it outside of the UK and it's supposed to show what not to do in I.33.
>>
So whats wrong with SCA? No grappling but is not that terrible, been on and off a few years with a local group.
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>>2127719
It just has nothing to do with HEMA. It's LARPing.
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>>2127719
perpetuates the stereotype that knightly combat consisted of cavemen bashing each other into the ground.
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>>2127719
>no grappling
>SCA Heavy uses rattan and foam boffers that don't feel like swords
>Focuses too much on hitting hard, and not martially appreciable cuts
>silly "light hit" and "wound" rules that allow people to be colossal autists
>SCA cut and thrust and rapier, however, use steel
SCA's focus is on large scale battles, and as such they've got rules like no grappling to make it safer. You wouldn't want to throw your mate down and get him trampled.
>To it's credit, the use of historic ingredients in food recipes, historic tools and medium use in art, and recreation of blacksmithing have been massively valuable from an academic standpoint, which the SCA spearheaded in the 1970s-90s
If you have cut and thrust or rapier close by, I recommend checking them out. Stay away from heavy.
>>
>>2127755
Oh I forgot
NO HAND HITTING ALLOWED[それはでたらめです]
>>
I realize that its not the most accurate to the point but its sacrificed for safety. Is there many plenty iron age, migration age, or bronze age history and fight in hema?
>>
>>2127792
>iron age, migration age, or bronze age
no real sources, so no. urns don't count
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>>2128156
Not SCA guy, but has anyone even tried to rebuild anything from amphorae, etc, for the Greeks? And there must be manuals and treatises on Roman training.
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>>2128243
De Re Millitari by Vegetius is the closest thing you're looking for. But it's about the boring parts of warfare you're not interested in. Earthworks, recruitment, force organization, marching, reacting to certain situations on a command level.
Absolutely nothing about the specifics of hand to hand combat is mentioned. If I recall correct, he does mention hitting a pell and training with grappling. But only in passing.
Because it was someone else's job to train soldiers for hand to hand combat. Not his job.
>>
>>2128156
So its like only if it has manuals and recorded technique? That eliminates alot of interesting cultures, not saying the ones advanced enough to do this are boring. Just narrow
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>>2096521
Unironically George Silver
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>>2096830
I'm watching the shipping tracking for my Feder V4 from Spain to the UK via Belgium and it's fucking agonizing
>>
>>2096874
>>2097369
>Not owning a sharp, armour and Templar tabard for the coming great European removal
>>
>>2128680
>being an edgy teenager
>doing HEMA
Sell your swords and return to playing video games.
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>>2128693
Real talk for a sec, that you feel the need to voice your oh-so-erudite dismissal of a hyperbolic, clearly jovial comment on a Laos sandal carving chatroom actual confirms the veracity behind it for everyone else observing, even if you're joking yourself
>>
>>2128726
I don't appreciate jokes that call for race wars. It's the reason why I don't share crusader memes on any of the forums I frequent. And being legit here.
The situation with /pol/ started with jokes 4chan made since ever.
So let us, as a community, not joke about racism. Even if someone is from /pol/ and does HEMA, they can see the benefit of not getting earmarked as racist by the mainstream media.

And the post we're replying to has no indication of being a joke. There's no meme. No rewarding punchline. Just a single statement about race war.
>>
>>2128738
It's just jokes Mahmoud, what's the worry?
>>
>>2128738
If you're not allowed to joke about everything then you're not allowed to joke about anything.

But who give a fuck, this is /hema/, talk HEMA!

Tomorrow I'll get my blackfencer synthetic sabers, can't wait to test them.

Also 'Die Fechtkunst' will take me a bit longer to proof-read, my wife got the flu so I have to take care of my baby son nearly all day...
But I'll try to keep it within January!
Also there are so many references to the first part (Fleuret) that I'll release a second version with those integrated into the saber part.

After that's finished I'll get to work with 'Unterricht im Säbelfechten' and once that's out too I'll start translating that stuff to English. Damn, that's a lot of stuff to do...
>>
>>2128319
If you want it to be "historical" that's pretty much the only way to do it "safely". Not to say that interpretating spear fighting from some amphora is uninteresting, but you're pretty much assured that you'll do your own mind stuff instead of something resembling what the ancients did. Besides, images are much less reliable than text and many authors realized this (Dancie talks about this for instance).

It's just a matter of not being a hypocrite to yourself. But then it's all in good fun anyway, so that lack of sources shouldn't stop you, don't fool yourself thinking it's any close to the real deal.

Problem is that without written or purpose sources, you can't even know if you're either right or wrong.
>>
>>2127153
Thanks for saying that
>>
>>2127572
Here (apparently)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6fOI42G--k
"I:33" is starting at around 17:00
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>>2128738
I'll bite

Don't forget that these jokes are being made on 4chan. The media and by its extension, the mainstream population already have this expectation of the site. Even though this is the HEME general on the Alternative Sports Board on 4chan, it will be seen as 4chan first by the people who do not visit the site.
Is photography scene as racist, or camping, or anime, or fitness, or cars, or pokemon? These kind of jokes can be found everywhere on the site. All allegations made of racism using 4chan as a source can be disregarded as 4chan being 4chan and nobody would question it, even if most of the site isn't
>>
>>2128776
That's a poor argument. In the HEMA community, we have enough maturity to not let the slope slip. This is a group made of academics of various stripes and martial artists. All well developed people.

I'm glad you're getting Blackfencer sabers. I'd love to get a pair for me and a fellow student who want to play with various saber systems. We haven't decided on a single one yet. I have a BF sidesword and I love it. I have a Cold Steel buckler to go with it, and I'm getting a dagger and a rotella soonish. I guess I have a cloak as well. The only thing I'd need to complete the suite would be another plastic sidesword. If I even bother with case of swords, that will be much later.

And you seem like you've got a lot on your plate. Doing translations and helping with getting texts published is a big job. You're doing a solid service to the English speaking HEMA community.
>>2128744
Making the neo nazis comfortable in our community is the worry. They should always know that racism isn't welcome. They could be welcome, if they quit being racist.
>>2129223
You make a good point. And this is something that I consider as well. But someone can also bring out the idea that this is still part of the HEMA community. And if you look at the HEMA racism tracker, you do see a lot of people not using 4chan, who are consistently being racist. In our community. We've got honest to goodness neo nazis practicing HEMA in Canada, America, UK, France, and Germany. And sometimes it's event organizers, club instructors, or yes, lower level students.
Bottom line is that the 4chan part of the HEMA community doesn't need to be racist. And it still reflects on HEMA.
>>
>>2129397
>the 4chan part of the HEMA community doesn't need to be racist.
While I agree, it isn't going to happen because this is 4chan and freedom to post jokes or beliefs is a strong part of this site. The best the HEMA community as a whole can do is to stop people from putting their prejudice into practice. That and encourage anyone of any background or ethnicity that has an interest in the historical European martial arts to join and participate.
>>
>>2129397
Making people who don't believe the stuff I do comfortable in our community is the worry. They should always know that believing stuff I don't isn't welcome. They could be welcome, if they quit believing stuff I don't.
>>
>>2129431
I'm not expecting to force people to change their posting habits. Especially not on the whole of 4chan. And perhaps you're correct about stopping people from letting it bleed out into more important parts of our community.
But being proactive and not letting it bleed from 4chan in the first place, I feel, is a good idea.
>>
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>>2128674
Silver is just watered down broadsword, plus none of his stuff past the single short sword is any use.
>>
>>2128980
>they blur the sword out to cover up that it's a Hanwei blunt pos
>Ol' Rupert looks like a coked up Tim Curry

Yet another shitshow from the BBC.
Where's that bald dude who was on everything for decades when you need him?
>>
>>2129465
>>2128980
>>2127572
What gets me is that Rawlings was on the BBC radio show just a while back. Easton was on Time Commanders.
It's not like the BBC doesn't know about the HEMA community. I haven't even heard of this Rudolph fellow.
>>
>>2129469
I was wondering about it because Rawlings was getting pissed at the BBC.
>>
Does anyone here study without a 'certified' instructor or not in an organize class?

If not-How do you study? Is this even possible without a proper teacher?
>>
>>2129570
Start a sparring and study group. Look at other people's youtube material for the source you study. Go and find instructors who do what you are doing, and become their friends.
You'll do well enough.
>>
>>2129570
>Is this even possible without a proper teacher?
It's possible but will take far far longer and there's always the danger of learning wrong things because of the narrower sight on things (unless you manage to get a group of 10 people or so together).

If you get the chance learn with a teacher, if not then get a lot of guys and start swinging
>>
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>>2129623
Not the same guy but it wouldn't work with the montante, right? I may be the only guy attempting to learn montante stuff in a 100km radius, I should get off my butt and go to some HEMA meeting like HEMAC Dijon or fightcamp if I want to get it right, right?
>>
>>2129646
>montante
Wow, I think that's extra tricky, because even training techniques with that thing can be pretty dangerous.
I honestly don't know how to tackle that, but a teacher is (when available and of good quality) surely always the best thing!
>>
>>2129660
I'm looking at most of the HEMA events and their program in Europe to find some teacher that I could bother. Learning the rules and various drills without an experienced teacher can only get me so far.
I'm not to the stage where I invested in a steel montante negro and shit, I just have a blackfencer one that barely fits in my car.
>>
>>2129646
Most people practice Montante solo. You'll be doing a lot of solo drills with them. The old Spanish systems only really showed solo drills for practice.
So you're in the clear. What you'll learn in Montante is valuable. And it will improve your Longsword handling.
>>
>>2116739
Paulus Hektor Mair has some quarterstaff. George Silver has also a system i heard. Joachim Meyer might also have something. nut sure about that one thought
>>
>>2130326
>Joachim Meyer might also have something. nut sure about that one thought
He has a whole chapter about it, called Halberstangen,
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Joachim_Me%C3%BFer
http://www.hroarr.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/12/Meyer-halberstangen-article-2014-v2-0.pdf
>>
>>2130545
>>2130326
And Fiore, ofc
>>
>>2116739

http://www.hroarr.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/12/Meyer-halberstangen-article-2014-v2-0.pdf

http://wiki.meyerfreescholars.com/index.php/Polearms

http://hroarr.com/basic-meyer-quarterstaff-series/
>>
>>2129397
>Bottom line is that the 4chan part of the HEMA community doesn't need to be racist. And it still reflects on HEMA.
I'm fucking Jewish myself and this kind of "we don't NEEEEEEED liberty" shitass rhetoric makes me want to post HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG memes all over the thread, just so you know, Smarmo McFascist.

Nothing more galling than this kind of cuntery.
>>
>>2130943
I feel you bro
>train in city club
>pretty much every ethnic background, religion, sexual identity and politic orientation possible
>everybody gets along well
>we are united by being HEMA freaks and outcasts anyway
>come here, sjw everywhere
>what do?
>>
>>2129397
Harping on about racism in niche communities invites witch hunters who ruin the culture within.
That's been my experience anyways.

People don't like neo-Nazis, they're not going to be accepted except by other neo-Nazis. I am more concerned by those who would take personal pleasure in convincing others that there are racists under their own bloody mattresses.
>>
Should I have sex just before doing HEMA? Logistically it makes sense but I worry I might be sticky and others will notice.

Virgin btw
>>
>>2096419
Hey guys, I personally do not practice HEMA but I am an ancient history and medieval history student. I also do machining and metal working.
I really would like to make high-quality, historically, accurate custom weapons and armor. I would be using modern methods but the equipment would look historical.
It is very time consuming to make this stuff. Do you think I could make money off it or is the market too big and the demand too small?
I'm not trying to get rich, I'd probably price my stuff at like $15hr labor + material + fraction of tool cost (for tool wear).
It wouldn't be cheap but I'm not going to be a ripoff.
Should I do it guys?
>>
>>2133162
Do it, send one sample to a known HEMA gear reviewer, get free advertising, get more clients, earn money doing shit you love.
>>
>>2133162
AFAIK it's really low-paying at the best of times. I wouldn't advise going into it expecting money.
>>
>>2133138
>Should I have sex just before doing HEMA?
Yes, it is the right thing to do, especially if you train an Italian or French style!

>>2133162
Just do it, however having some fencing background is helpful for understanding how blade mechanics work and hence what a good blade makes and what the proportions should be.
>>
>>2133162
if you are somewhat good at it than it pays enough that you can be poor
>>
>>2133435
I have a pretty good understanding of how blades are supposed to be as well as proportions.
I'd be trying to make reproductions of actual historical designs.
In the medieval pre-mass production there are a lot of unique pieces of equipment. I'd be interested in going to a couple local museums and making reproductions of some truly unique designs.
>>
>>2133667
Like where the forward pivot point should be on a good Type XVIIIb and where the vibrational node should be on a XIa?
>>
>>2133162
>Should I do it guys?
Yes, Danelli's waiting list is shit all the way up. It's a couple years long now and that's too long to wait.
>>
>>2133138
>but I worry I might be sticky and others will notice.
Don't worry, the smell of being freshly fucked is hard to detect, but it will be subconsciously noted by every female in the room. It instantly will raise your sex appeal from virgin to viagra force feed donkey. If you play your cards right, like giving a sexy pose when you take of your sweaty shirt off and then bending over and showing some cheeks while you put it into the bag, then you likely will be the main actor in some wet dreams that night.
>>
What's the Meyer square good for?
>>
>>2137265
solo drilling fast and fluid strike combinations.
>>
lol fuck this european gay shit
kenjusu is INCREDIBLY BETTER

why would you practice this gay ass retarded """""MARTIAL ARTS"""""

take a look at THIS SHIT >>2096419
is that from a porno

LOL
>>
>>2137945
(You)
>>
>>2128885
I have no illusion that what I do in the SCA is accurate, its a sport I can do with friends that is history based. Otherwise, anyone take up codes or practice a form of chivalry in HEMA or is it all fighting and method?
>>
>>2137945
I want a HEMA themed porno.
going from medieval Europe duel, to grappling, to ancient Greek real quick
>>
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>>2138497
>>
>>2137945
(UUUUUU)
>>
>>2138497
>>2138587

http://wiktenauer.com/images/thumb/d/d5/Mair_grappling_029.jpg/800px-Mair_grappling_029.jpg
>>
So who signed up for Longpoint? Anyone here in Tier A?
>>
>>2138478
>Otherwise, anyone take up codes or practice a form of chivalry in HEMA or is it all fighting and method?

Bro it's just a martial art/sport we all get together to study and practice.
>>
>>2138478
>anyone take up codes or practice a form of chivalry in HEMA
Yes, some people do that. You can usually see them advertising their "heritage". It's exactly as nonsensical and cringey as you'd imagine; not much different to karate bullshit.

If you want to take up 16th/17th century ideals (and it's usually this period, because earlier ideals are usually too Christian for people's tastes), read a book. Don't go to some swordfighting convention.
>>
>>2142538
I took up the 16th century ideal that the best thing to bring to a duel is your friends.
>>
I don't think you can pick up much chivalry or other things from manuals, however doing a combat sport with friends is usually beneficial to the attitude.
>>
>tfw finally found winter space for my club
Certainly was a struggle.
>>
don't forget to name your three players for the 4CC
>i even asked for you guys to get three instead of one
>>2129967
>>
>>2143559
i just used three memes (well that and my waifu (actually matt's my waifu too (actually so is silver)))
>>
So no much interest in chivalry and related is there much incouragement with any other arts or talent except fighting? Cooking, calligraphy, sewing, art, even smithing to make your own armor?
>>
>>2143695
sca
>>
>>2143695
I took dancing lessons and went to Buddhist meditation lessons to improve my fencing.
>>
>>2143727
That sounds pretty damn interesting on the meditation, I took a dance class as well once, great footwork exercise
>>
>>2096521
a big fucking sword
>>
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>>2144151
Aye, the mighty BFS!
>>
weird question, but the US army NCO sword is a spadroon correct?
>>
>>2143559
>>2143613
Who the fuck is Lucy? Should have gone with Dirty Florist or Marcus Gloss.

>>2144738
The images I found on a quick google search do look spadroonish.
>>
>>2138478
The only code I follow is Meyer's encouragement to court beautiful women.
>>
>>2144738
>spadroon
Yes, and spadroons are shit. For once I agree with Easton.
>>
Why is that often when I see people (even rapier instructors and people who know much more about rapier fencing and HEMA than me) use rapier against cut oriented weapons they still keep their off-hand forward like in rapier vs. rapier? Although a thrust can be parried with a hand but a cut realistically speaking not, so isn't that a bit foolish? Shouldn't you choose the off-hand position based on what weapon you are facing and not what weapon you are using?
>>
>>2146060
Yes, you are right.
>>
>>2146060
>they still keep their off-hand forward like in rapier vs. rapier
Wat
Your off hand should be up under your head in single rapier, holding an empty hand forward is just weird.

The exception is if they're trying to bait a cut to the off hand, I guess, so they can withdraw it and thrust into that line.
>>
>>2115805
That is literally how every HEMA club starts.
>>
Without trying to troll,
Is there any Asiatic armed martial art that do sparring ?
Fighting, uncrontroled sparring even with a shinai or foam thingy.

I mean, there must be peoples wanting to put the practice to use, and with the kendo protection, without the kendo sportivised rules for hitting, no ?
>>
>>2147435
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7nUFpznK7E
>>
>>2147456
Ho right, kenjutsu. good. Often saw those, but never in armor.
is toyama ryu a special school of kenjutsu ?
>>
>>2147465
>is toyama ryu a special school of kenjutsu ?
I am no expert by any means, but I have been told it is a simplified "modern" school (Post WW1?) that is one of the few that does steel sparring.
>>
>>2147435
>Asiatic
Plenty, especially if you remember Asia is a bigger place than just China or Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oAVHmP7U9A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNxhPMuszyk
>>
>>2145884
you call this shit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF_5Ae52lhw
>>
>>2147705
Ever hold a period spadroon? With a nice wobbly blade and too light for a decent cut? It is not a good weapon.
>>
>>2147468
>>2147465
>>2147435

While most of the people doing that are from toyama ryu, as far as I know that practice "gekiken" isnt part of or restricted to toyama ryu.

Toyama ryu is mostly a batto or sword drawing art that was developed from WWII era miltary sword work.

If you're interested in older stuff there are several schools that practice there own in house shinai sparring
>>
>>2147435
>>2147465
>>2147468
Toyama-ryu is based on the swordsmanship teachings that were done in the Toyama military academy during the interwar and then WW2, the program was developed in 1925 and then modified in the early 1930's and finally in 1941. After the war, the three main instructors continue to practice kenjutsu under the Toyama-ryu name, though they would usually indicate which branch (Morinaga-ha, Nakamura-ha...) they were practising, as there are some differences in the techniques. Toyama-ryu forms are batto forms (blade sheathed), they are few but efficient (some of the founders of the style even fought against bayonets during the war in China). Toyama-ryu is mostly famous for its cutting practice and yes, they also practice gekken, sparring in or without kendo armor (with shinai though some use boffer training swords). Toyama-ryu isn't a koryu (old style) but a gendai budo (modern), obviously that says nothing in itself of its practice which is usually well esteemed.

Several later Edo era Koryu used sparring in their curriculum and still do. Most famously Jikishinkage-ryu, Tennen Rishin-ryu and Hokushin Itto-ryu (one of its major schools is in Munich atm).
>>
>>2147362
Yeah I obviously don't mean like forward extended. Clearly it's more forward than in say sabre vs sabre where it is often kept behind the back.
>>
>>2147778
well it was the spadroon that broke in the vid, and it was doing far worse in the sparring. I was hopping that would help convey that I was joking
>>
>>2148818
Sorry, I wasn't watching till the end. Now a replica blade breaking is not rally an indicator. But then yeah, Spadroons are an abomination.
>>
>>2147435
Owari Kan-ryu starts with spear sparring (and simple drilling) and only later covers the classical kata.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OXx7dv0u8E&t=2m50s
>>
>>2148521
nakamura ha is usually called nakamura ryu these days. From my understanding Nakamura added material and refined the theory behind his swordsmanship a good deal.

I have read koryu practitioners denigrate toyama ryu. Some have problems with its connection to the military, others believe its cuts are simply to big, and thus telegraph, others have a problem with some of the lead figures like Nakamura who published some pretty insulting criticisms of other schools.

Habiki gekiken is also rather unpopular, common responses are that it looks like bad kendo and they would lose nothing form just using kendo gear and shinai
>>
>>2149102
So basic shit-talking just like in HEMA?
>>
>>2149565
Perhaps to some extent but there are some differences to how they use the sword and how they train so its natural they think the other side is doing it wrong.
>>
Talking about Hema and such is there a good waster/training tool for exchanges between oriental and occidental martial arts? Something balanced like a katana but safe for sparring not like the cold steel one.
>>
>>2149673
would a Rawling longsword be sturdy enought to spar with a boken ?
>>
>>2150141
No
>>
>>2150141
No, but a purple heart armoury wood or synthetic should work.
>>
>>2149565
>>2149579
>>2149102
Just to complement, it's true that Toyama-ryu and Nakamura-ryu in particular is getting some flak, but then it's not uncommon in the japanese swordsmanship world in general and it has nothing to do with them being gendai. I remember reading stuff about Nitta Suzuo (Toda-ha Buko-ryu) getting similar heavy flak for admitting "too many" strangers in her school, even letting them perform during embu (and giving way too many of them menkyo-kaiden)! The new sôke of Hokushin Itto-ryu (chiba) said some japanese took very badly is nomination as well (he is german-born).
Now it's also true that Nakamura wasn't exactly the nicest guy in the block, and I suppose people answered him with the same verve, in the end, it's not like they actively went up against each other other than with words, basic shit-talking as the other anon said.

Whatever you do, people are going to speak badly of you and what you do ("I wouldn't have cut like that" "it would never work on da streetz"), I don't think it reflects general contempt regarding the precise case of Toyama-ryu, to my knowledge, the school is overall well-received outside of Japan anyway and then there is the usual shit-talking at home. I remember a japanese who made fun of the whole "Toyama-ryu was part of the military" thing: Shinkage-ryu and Itto-ryu were the official schools of the Shogunate and most certainly they helped to train quite unsavory people, yet it's far enough for us to forget that. Let's not pretend that koryu people back then were cute pandas who never do no harm ever and never went around decapitating people...

Know what you are doing and don't listen to shitters basically.
>>
>>2150606
I saw that blackfencer did a katana waster with a POB somewhat similar to a sharp katana but it's bigger and lighter than the average katana.
>>
>>2146060
No. Arming sword styles also keep the hand on the chest for the same reason as rapier. The only reason to have it behind you is if your footwork is linear and there is a risk of cutting it off with moulinetti if you have to be side on. If you're passing and aren't facing the same side all the time then it's better to keep it in front of you, on your chest or, if you're not cutting much with your sword, under your chin. It's not just there to swat thrusts, it's also there to grip and come into grapple and punch and shit.
>>
>>2151517
I still think a lot of their cuts have to much extension
>>
Where daggers used in tavern brawls, in the 13th century?
>>
>>2152383
We don't know about the 13th century, but we do have the 15th century Wittenwiler manual that deal with the use of (swiss) daggers in tavern brawls.
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Hugo_Wittenwiler
>>
>>2152383
You would have to check judiciary and court records but it seems to be a fair assumption. Why daggers and the 13th century especially?
>>
>>2133138
Fun fact: I lost my virginity a couple of hours before my Kendo class. My recommendation: don't. I ended up rushing the sex and, in retrospect, people probably did notice (more the "I just had sex for the first time" glow than the smell or anything).
>>
>>2153286
>walk in to kendo class
>feeling good
>whole class goes well, really friendly
>Packing up my bogu [armour] after class
>cum stain right on the front panel of my Tare [fauld]
>smile awkwardly
>go home commit seppuku with my Nito
>fail because haven't learned that kata yet
>embrace body pillow and cry self to sleep

u
>>
>>2153957
>go home commit seppuku with my Nito
>fail because haven't learned that kata yet
But Junto is about killing someone who is doing seppuku, not killing yourself!
Also did you plan to double stab yourself with your "nito" (would be quite a sight mind you) ?
>>
>>2153957
>cum stain right on the front panel of my Tare
Why would anyone ever have sex in Kendo gear?
>>
>>2155157
Fetish comes in many ways
>>
>>2155224
This
>uhm anon, could you please not shower after training
>but I am all sweaty and stinking
>yes yes yes! please leave your sweaty training gear on and just make sure you come home quick after training! I'll clean you up real good!
>>
>>2155157
Well, I've never done it, in the bogu itself...
The uniform though, is another issue.
>>
>>2155537
How do you get your dick out of a hakama without taking it off, though?
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qkHutxhzdc
Is this guy for real? Like someone heard something about a full out duel in Poland?
>>
>>2156902
>Is this guy for real

Of course not. Lol.
>>
>>2156337
Could just tie it lower.
>>
Are there any fencers here with particularly small faces? What mask do you use?
Even the "s" size masks seem 2/3 cm too big for me
>>
>>2158612
Can't you put on a ski mask or something?
>>
>>2158612
Have you tried bending the mask a little, like put it on the ground and gently kneeling on it? by this you can adjust the shape a little. if that doesn't help, Negrini makes XS mask which has some extra padding and velcro.
>>
>>2158668
Yeah, I tried, works just a bit. I didn't know about negrini, I already ordered a gajardoni air mask in small, hoping for the air mechanism to work for those extra 2 cm
>>2158617
I never thought about that, it would probably be uncomfortable as hell I think
Also I have the same problem with gloves. I hate being this small ffs
>>
>>2158987
try a padding cap. The thing that reenactors wear under helmets. I use one although only for the extra safety
>>
Post unusual wasters.
>>
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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfo-YX-Sdoo
Dave is a miracle.
>>
>>2156337
>>2158581
>not cutting a hole in front plate for exactly this reason
plebs.
>>
>>2159262
Still doesn't solve the Hakama issue.
>>
>>2159165
Is this what autism in an adult looks like?
>>
>>2159304
Yes. Even as a hard-core HEMArtist myself, this kind of shit is horrendously needless and makes us look like a bunch of assholes.
>>
>>2159165
This is like a bad actor pretending to go full anorak but he's actually like this.

Nothing wrong with that though. Autism is something to be proud of.
>>
My arm hurts. My muscles, insofar as they exist, got tired quickly. How do I make the pain stop?

Like I heard normal lifting (squats &c.) wouldn't necessarily cut it, but would it help given I am working from, let's be honest, nothing?
>>
>>2163049
>How do I make the pain stop?
What I'm doing is training at home (just look for a few solo exercises for your specific weapon on youtube) until I get tired WITHOUT overworking my muscles!
It gets better and better but if you're working from nothing then it will take time.
>>
>>2163071
I know the exercises I'm meant to be doing, so that's good. But what should I do them with? I don't have a practice weapon. I can use a ruler or something for technique, but they aren't particularly heavy.
>>
>>2163076
>I don't have a practice weapon
Oh, that's a problem.
Tbqh, get one, there's no real subsitute! A synthetic waster does the job absolutely fine if you can't/won't afford steel
>>
>>2163049
Arnica cream or ginger extract, if the pain is too much however, you're probably over exerting yourself. I also heard good things about sea salt soaks but I only tried them for tired legs
>>
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>>2163175
Tiger Balm is fighters choice.
>>2163076
A good core strength workout is beneficial for HEMA, calisthenics usually work nice.
So is training for the upper arms, 150 strikes for warm up from all angles and then then endless minutes in the upper guards.
Add some footwork drills and your body should be hurting all over.
>>
>>2163049
mind over matter, your mind quits before your body.
get your body accustomed to the pain. Hold static flexes over long periods of time work well for this, Like fully extend your arms from your sides so that your arms are parallel to the ground and hold it for an hour, or do an air squat while keeping your knees at a 90 degree angle, or lay on the ground with your hand in the small of your back with your feet raised about 6in off the ground and the legs fully extended, or do planks / hold a pushup halfway down.
>>
>>2163246
I choose life.
>>
My first version of "Die Fechtkunst" is finished, of course there are still a few things missing I want to do but at least german speakers (or rather readers) can enjoy that stuff
>>
>>2163262
once I'm home (in an hour or two) I'll upload it and post the link here
>>
>>2163250
It could be worse,
you could instead to things like flutterkicks, scissors, overhead arm claps, crossovers, Jane Fondas, monkey fuckers, air squats, ect at a minimum of 100 repetitions and maxing at a little over 1000 all at a 4 count.

this provides faster results but has a very high chance of fucking you up.
>>
>>2163280
>has a very high chance of fucking you up.
99,99837% is pretty high, that's true
>>
>>2163281
well chronic issues in the long term probably.
It seems like only 1-2 out of 10-15 people tear muscle / ligaments / tendons out of the 2 week workout. 6-20% is still an alarming number
>>
>>2163276
Fug I'm excited...
>>
>>2159165
I don't like his use of replica swords as historical precedent. You can't just say "the bloke who makes them knows his shit", it's the same error the TV show makes.
>>
>>2163495
I hope you like it!

Here's the first version, choose whatever you like more (google drive or dropbox):
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwKu5Md5kPLoM3lIOFY0VDJRVzA
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/alg87jvy0tv34hh/Die_Fechtkunst.pdf?dl=0
>>
Do we have anything on why Talhoffer called random sowrds messers in his codex?
The only thing I found was in an ARMA pdf, pic related, and why is a good first step explanation I still want to know more
>>
>>2163812
I mean, they are big knives.
>>
>>2163812
Pic is simply wrong.
Wittenwiller explicitly talks about Dagger and the Baselard and names them that. The mounted fencing in Von Danzig differs between Schwert & Messer.
>t. guy that can into old German
>>
>>2164273
>"Item nun han ich dich gelert vechten mit dem schwert und mit den spieß und mit den ze roß und ze fuoß und mit dem bassler und mit dem tegen och ze roß und ze fuoß Nun wil ich dich leren vechten mit dem kurzen messer und spies und under basler und under andri messer "

>schwert
>basler
>tegen
>messer

Also he says theres the "kurzen messer" the "basler" and "andri messer" (other knifes). Whats unclear? He even explains the different weapons and describes the basler as a kind of messer with various subtypes.
>>
>>2164293
the unclear thing to me is basically talhoffer as that's where I've encountered it

>Der nott stand im messer
>>
>>2164332
>Der nott stand im messer
means the emergency stance in the messer situation.
Nott Stand or Notstand in modern German is a recurring theme with Talhoffer, it's emergency techniques, like quick draws or defense against several and so on.
So maybe the illustrator just showed the correct technique but chose to draw a sword instead of messer.
>>
>>2164360
in the mixed weapons part of that codex there are several pictures where there is a sword and the text mentions messer
>>
>>2163506
Dave Rawlings has been teaching swordsmanship and interpreting manuscripts as his sole career for, basically, all of his adult working life.
>>
>>2164458
I just went trough the other treatises of Hans, when he calls something a messer, it is not necessarily a messer, but often a sword. However, it is always used like a messer, cuts only with the true edge and reverse parades (use of the Nagel).
Not sure what to make out of it. Good question!
>>
>>2164493
it's MAYBE some local language thing or one of his quirks or whatever.
But the thing is he sometimes calls a sword a sword, but never calls a messer a sword as far as I know (I could be wrong there)
>>
>>2164611
>but never calls a messer a sword as far as I know
saw the same.
>>
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Hey hey /asp/. Looking for a hookup... Does anyone have a copy of the comedy fechtbuch "Krotchpunt". It long out of print, and my copy got borrowed and never returned.

>>2096485
Brand new Hand Pavaise for christmas. Im freaking stoked, and the change in shield geometry, even with the lessened size, is amazing.
>>
>>2163049
Di Grassi mentions how specifically:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Giacomo_di_Grassi
>>
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>>2163520
FUCK YARR
>>
>>2164360
>universal parry in to hanging guard
This is why Broadsword is the best sword.
>>
>>2127755
Yeah, heavy rules is lowest common denominator. This is why there has been more and more cross-practice into HEMA for the serious types, and a growing focus on steel.

>>2127762
Hands are valid targets in rapier and cut-and-thrust, and are simply not scoring targets in heavy, which started as a variant of pas d'armes. (but you can still hit them).

>>2128243
>>2128319
Put bluntly, you can't interpret anything meaningful from such primitive depictions.

>>2138478
HEMA is just the academic reconstruction half of the nerd cake. Cultural and social recreation is not what HEMA is about. Thats why a lot of us do both.

>>2144738
>>2145052
>>2145884
Museumfag here: No, the hilt is based off a type C67a troupes de terre infantry hilt, which was a heavier, vaguely smallsword like two-lobe dish hilt design from the early 18thC, that we adopted from the French style. Obviously, they supplied us with a metric shit ton, and the design stuck. The design continued to be modified and carried through in use until the 20thC.

>>2152383
>>2153109
There are a handful of accounts, but in general, it would probably be avoided. All the English accounts I am seeing typically end with the survivor being hung for murder.
>>
>>2149565
Related to your pic: Has anyone actually started repro wicker basket helmets for single stick?

>>2158612
Stupid question: Have you tried ladies or children's mask? We have a guy all of 5'7" in our smallsword group, and he ended up buying a large sized child's three-weapon mask.
>>
>>2166624
No actually, I just looked for the smallest possible one. Already ordered one a couple of cm too big but with an air mechanism, will see how it goes. Your friend is taller than me (but if he picked up a large, I assume a medium childrens mask would fit me), I'm 153 cm which is approximately 5'0, and my face circumference is like 60 cm while all the masks go down to a 64, 63 max
>>2159011
Thats smart, will try while I wait for the mask, thank you.
Thanks everyone for the replies anyway, I will post here when I get the mask in the hopes of helping any other short fencer
>>
retarded question time:
In lecküchner why there are no guard which is similar to the schrankhut with the only difference that the true edge is looking forward, instead of the false?
>>
>>2166958
Because no Master couldn't (well, chose not to) cover ever single conceivable position and write down techniques for it.
>>2166624
>Has anyone actually started repro wicker basket helmets for single stick?
I had one made by a basket weaver group.
Let me just say there is a reason metal and even buffalo-hide were preferred in the primary sources.
>>
>>2167087
as far as I know lecküchner doesn't really wrote techniques in a way of "what you can do from this position" but rather "if he does this you should does this" without stating any starting position for you.
Although it was a couple of years since I last read Lecküchner so I might mistake it for someone else
>>
>>2164467
I was actually referring to his appeal to the Peter Johnsson's Albion reproductions.

Anyone involved in historical study, without further context, would be unimpressed if you said "oh well we know this was x way because look at these market reproductions from a smart fellow". It's a bad looking argument, even if you're correct in the end.
>>
>>2163520
Thanks!
>>
>>2163506
Maybe if you weren't such an idiot you would have understood that Dave was using a real authentic antique sword as reference, researched by Peter Johnson, and only brought up Albion because they have published the statistics of the original on their website, along with their replica.
>>
>>2164493
He's showing that the same technique can be applied to both, kinda like Leckuchner does
>>
>>2167087
Oh, im sure, but I specifically want it because of a program I am hoping to get going at the museum I work at. I have documentation for similar woven head protection for the late 18thC.
>>
>>2168641
>Oh, im sure, but I specifically want it because of a program I am hoping to get going at the museum I work at. I have documentation for similar woven head protection for the late 18thC.
I which case just find a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Cultural Heritage and Anthropological Relevance of Basket-Weaving.
I'm serious.
It's a real thing.

>imo if you do demos do not, I repeat, do not allow thrusts to the face. Wicker against ash or willow singlesticks does fuck all.
>>
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>>2168881
I am already chatting with some VCU students, and my backup is the actual Weavers at the museum.

Im looking for instant gratification. Im still super salt purpleheart discontinued their woven hilts, and changed the design of their leather hilts.

>>imo if you do demos do not, I repeat, do not allow thrusts to the face. Wicker against ash or willow singlesticks does fuck all.

>do not allow thrusts to the face
No duh dude.

>Wicker against ash or willow singlesticks does fuck all.
Your problem is you're using wicker. Wicker is OK for baskets, but you're supposed to use river cane, like >>2149565 for helmets and hilts.
>>
>>2166615
>Museumfag here: No, the hilt is based off a type C67a troupes de terre infantry hilt, which was a heavier, vaguely smallsword like two-lobe dish hilt design from the early 18thC, that we adopted from the French style. Obviously, they supplied us with a metric shit ton, and the design stuck. The design continued to be modified and carried through in use until the 20thC.
You wouldn't happen to know the proper sword type it is then by any chance?
>>
>>2169053
According to US Army officer's dress code, the modern NCO sword is basically unchanged from the M1840 NCO/Musician's straight saber, with the exception of the scabard, which changed from leather with brass hardware to steel in the early 1900's.
>>
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>>2169155
Can you even cut with a modern NCO sword? If it cant be sharpened or used its more a sword like object
>>
>>2169235
I have only ever handled a modern USN sword (my dad's), but I assume they are all similar. Its a stainless steel costume piece for the most part. They tend to have rebated edges, and are generally overbuilt, but I am sure you could sharpen them like any other really nice wall hanger, though it will never be a cutting sword.

Fine taste in comics, bro.
>>
Are air masks legit? I just heard of them, and considering a medium is way tight and a large is loose I thought it'd be worth ordering...
>>
>>2169678
>Are air masks legit?
Pictures? I don't really think so, but maybe if they're really really sturdy
>>
I'm in the market for a feder. There's a guy selling a used Ensifer for $260 on Facebook.

Is that a good deal? I know they go for a fair amount more when new, but I don't know how much life is left in it.
>>
>>2169727
http://www.gajardoni.com/it/maschere/42-kombat-mask.html
They have this version, and another one that costs a bit more. Someone I know has the kombat mask without the air thing inside, as far as sturdiness goes looks like its like any other 1600N fencing mask.
>>
>>2169852
Oh, I was thinking of something different!

Looks good, I guess if it's "like any other 1600N mask" then it should be safe to use
>>
Is there any way to replace the grip on a training sword? The one I have right now has a rubber-like texture for absorbing impacts, but holy God does it rub my skin raw. I've got blisters all over my thumb.
>>
>>2170310
Is it a rawlings waster? I think you can screw off the pommel and slide it off to replace it with something else. Or you could just wear thin gloves. Maybe just look for those tapes they use for bats etc and simply put a layer of that over the grip.
>>
>>2170318
It's one of these guys
http://casiberia.com/resource/red-dragon-armoury-hema-sparring-supply/321

It works great for its job, but after training my fingers hurt worse than my muscles.
>>
Any advice on where I could find club members?
We've got about four, but it's costing us a bit to train at our current location, how do I advertise this stuff?
>>
>>2171078
We usually hang lots of posters at the local university, but I doubt that really does anything.

Mostly it's just word of mouth.
>>
>>2171145
Would it be bad manners to advertise here?
>>
>>2171154
As long as it is non commercial it should be ok.
>>
>>2171154
Not worth the effort. Your chances of actually finding someone in this thread who happens to live near you are far, far lower than your chances of just grabbing random people near you and finding someone interested.
>>
>>2159165
holy shit this scene is hilarious! I don't know shit about sword fighting but it's so ridiculous it made me laugh. Thanks.
>>
Where do these lightsaber schools get their fencing styles from?
Bolognese Sidesword? Saber? Fleuret?

Anyone having any experience?
>>
>>2172549
stage fighting
>>
>>2172565
Is it truly just pure staged fighting that's meant to look good but nothing else?
>>
>>2172568
yes. it MAY have stuff that looks similar to some other stuff but that's mostly because humans really have a limited range of motions.
stage fighters and those who do the choreography never really learned hema.
>>
>>2172571
Pity, but thanks for the answers!
>>
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>>2172578
here is a little more in-depth analysis
>>
>>2172602
very interesting read, thanks very much!
>>
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>>2172571
>stage fighters and those who do the choreography never really learned hema.
Um, fucking excuse me m8y I make a side income performing like ol' Figg here >>2169041
so yes, we in fact do.
You know that most early Stage Combat was based off military manuals right?
Granted, it's more Acting than Martial Arts, but that sound from the crowd when you execute that perfect (historically accurate) technique gives me a rush.
m8.
>>
>>2172602
>that comment
>>
Is this atypical of stage fighting? 'cause it's pretty good imo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6BBq9zE2pY
>>
>>2172777
>I make a side income performing like ol' Figg here

Publicly challenging drunks and idiots to duels for a wager?
>>
>>2172930
>atypical
yes. it's better than a lot of stuff, but it's still pretty bad.
>>
>>2173343
>Publicly challenging drunks and idiots to duels for a wager?
I see you've taken up my challenge then ;)
>>
>>2169842
Seen Ensifers last, seen ones chewed up in a year. Ask for photos of the edge. Compare to a new Regenyei, Ensifers are the best feder but it's not that long a lead over the others.
>>
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What are some good smiths for sharp longswords, other than Albion?
>>
>>2174508
>sharp longswords
Dunno about their sharps but Regenyei is great in general and Berbekucz is relatively cheap while still providing high quality
>>
Any good videos or explanations how to do Moulinets the right way without 'breaking' my wrist or the muscles getting tired within 2 seconds?
I get the feeling I'm not doing 'em right...
>>
>>2175819
Matt Gallas is king of flow drills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhNnwby--yQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgDcCNNaIRY
>>
>>2175819
Oh, and here is your Moulinet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWf9JYjY0Ik
>>
>>2175831
>>2175837
Ah damn, thanks but I meant for saber!

Still that's gonna be extremely useful for increasing my longsword dexterity, thanks
>>
>>2174508
'Swordmaker' Maciej Kopciuch, Lukas MG, El Gur, Pavel Moc...
>>
>>2175813
I figured Regenyei would be an option, but I wanted to get some reviews before looking closer.

Berbekucz I don't know much about. His stuff looks really cheap - like, cheap enough that I'd be worried about the quality. Is it actually solid stuff?

>>2176333
Thanks for the info, but I should have been more specific; I'm looking for stuff that doesn't cost several thousand dollars. Albion's stuff is probably the upper limit of my budget here.
>>
>>2174508
>>2176963
Arms & Armor
Lutel
Valiant Armoury
>>
>>2176979
Neat stuff, thanks.
>>
>>2176333
a cute
>>
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>>2122529
The existence of the pepper poleaxe is one of the best reasons to not kill myself
>>
>>2176963
Fair enough. Slightly concerning that I've normalised Albion's prices.
Pavel Moc's piece are generally less than 500 euro, as are Lutel, and I can confirm both do good work.
In the US, Angus Trim is at the edge of your price range but well worth considering- sometimes you'll get a discount for cosmetic flaws. Darksword Armory looks nice, but I've read varying reviews.
>>
I'm looking for a hema club in north italy but they all seems to be oriented towards olympic fencing and foils and the like.

I can't find the old hema map with all the clubs, seems like they update the hemaalliance website and all the clubs info are gone.
>>
>>2178411
I think the old map is gone. Now there's only one listed in Padua and one near Milan.

Maybe contact Italian HEMA people and ask them? The smith behind Broken Anvil was in northern Italy for a while, so he might know.
>>
>>2178424
>Italian HEMA
Found a dedicated page.
>>
>>2178411
Try Achille Marozzo maybe? Iirc they have various schools
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