Republicans are going to repeal the Endangered Species Act.

I'm not a libshit but this still does trigger me.

>>2299998
Hm, maybe actual issues are more important than your fucking moronic tribal attachment to "liberal"/"conservative"?

>>2299997
can burgers do ANYTHING right?

>>2299999
The thing is we will argue until the end of time as to what we see as an issue, but it is obvious that endangered creatures dying off is one.

>>2299999
>Expecting Americans to ever let go of their epic Crips vs Bloods reality show

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>>2300000
quints confirm

>>2300007
Except it clearly isn't an issue to Republicans.

>>2299997

Welcome to mostly republican everything.

My violently republican friend thinks we've tipped the boat too far to one side. Good going USA.

anyone who votes Republican is a literal cousin fucking sub human

>>2300000
To be fair I think france got in trouble for not protecting some wild animals at all. I think it was a hamster or something.

But great. Unless we have some rich die hard animal activists to buy up land then we are kinda fucked either way. I can just imagine PETA buying shit up since it's not like they use the money for anything helpful.

>>2300036
Didn't continental Europe extinct most of their native species long ago? They might have better protections now but I doubt they have as many species as US.

>>2300034
>Still butthurt cuz shillary lost

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Post your face when Americans literally have, and willingly defend, a head of state who thinks global warming and vaccines aren't real and in all likelihood agrees with this shit too

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will withhold judgement for now, hopefully it's just one bumblefuck from flyover america

>>2300060
global warming is fake thou

>>2300079
>implying bumblefucks from flyover America didn't save this country from four years of Hillary

Well I just hope wildlife and wilderness aren't too fucking gone before i die

>>2300094
fuck off faggot, I'm not here to argue politics, public lands and the ecosystem are near and dear to my heart, and I don't give a fuck what party you're from as long as you preserve them. I voted for the man because he said he approves of keeping public lands public, but now I'm not so sure.

>>2300094
>Bumblefuck from flyover America still justify this shitstorm with "th-the other one was worse!" months after the election

>>2300101
Your right. Maybe I should just throw a tantrum and say he's not my president like the opposition.
>>2300100
Good thing I wasn't replying to you then, faggot.

Maybe, just maybe, Trump is going to replace it. Things in the US government aren't as well governed since the last 8 years, and new laws and change has made a lot of loopholes and corruption in DC. Trump isn't just getting rid of Obamacare, rather, he is making a new one he's stated that it'll work better. Hopefully, he'll do the same with the ESA.

>>2300100
>I voted for the man because he said he approves of keeping public lands public
Good job being retarded enough to fall for that, go join the other drumpfers losing their healthcare in the regret corner.

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>>2300105

>>2300103
suck my dick nigger, I'll fuck you up irl

>>2300100
>>2300105
>they fell for the /pol/ meme

kys idiots.

>>2300100
>Public lands and the ecosystem are near and dear to my heart so I voted for the guy who says the Chinese invented global warming
>This rich politician says he cares about public land so it must be true

I didn't know that was what people meant when they said Americans love Kool-Aid.

>>2300048
>le hillary lost meme
Fuck hillary, she was the worst candidate imaginable until trump showed up. It's not about losing, it's about trump winning. He and his team of inbred rednecks are about to throw this country under the bus and destroy what is actually great about it just to create a few more robot-tier jobs for unskilled cucks who refuse to do anything to better themselves, and instead whine about the gubment not feeding them more work that a we should be giving to our mentally disabled.

>>2300122
You wish Trump's team was inbred rednecks. It's rich people supported by inbred rednecks for no apparent reason, while Hillary's would've at least been rich people supported by no one.

>>2300122
No, the problem isn't that they're inbred rednecks. The problem is they're mostly people with exactly 0 political experience and interests that go directly against the position they're assuming.

>>2299997
>conservatives
>not conservative about the nature
>unironically liberal policies
really makes ya think

>>2300122
Okay honest question, Do you know the real reason trump won?

>>2299997
he's right

my uncle purchased a whole mess of land in florida, an endangered bird started nesting there so the government seized his land and made it a bird sanctuary. He wasn't reimbursed anything for it

it's just a bird

>>2300180
it's just your redneck uncle, who cares

>>2300013
see bundy ranch for what they are talking about.
Provisions need to be written in to protect private property owners

>>2300180
>>2300196
>muh land

Nobody cares. Rather someone not have land than species extinct.

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>>2300199
If you don't believe in private property you should leave the United States.
There are plenty of other solutions for endangered species rather than requisitioning land without proper compensation from private citizens.
Namley, allowing people to farm them.

You should strongly consider killing yourself.

>>2300199
I'm sure you would sing a different tune if you got kicked out of your home because a bird picked a tree in your yard to make a nest

>>2300204
>allowing people to farm them

This is why most endangered species are endangered.

>>2300205
>tract of forest purchased by government
>kicked out of home

No.

>>2300211
it wasn't purchased, it was seized. he wasn't given anything for it, he was served a document saying it didn't belong to him anymore.

It's funny to see them bring up the muh land thing and then turn around and defend civil forfeitures

Apprently muh land only matters if you can afford to lobby for it

>>2299997
Why does everyone think chaos candidate will be a dictator? If you even read the article, they don't say anything will necessarily happen. Not only is nothing set in stone, it hasn't even been fucking discussed yet. And they only think it might happen because the house and senate are also largely republican. If that's all they needed and what all the republicans want, Bush would have done this in a heart beat in his term.

King Nigger has been secretly selling large portions of our national parks to oversea companies for years now, if it makes you feel any better.

>>2300122
Incredibly butthurt that shillary lost

>>2300060
The correct term is actually climate change, want to take a guess at why? Also, it's only a single vaccine that the 'anti-vaxxers' are up in arms about, and it's not about never giving them the vaccine, it's giving them the vaccine a few months late when the immune system is strong enough because the vaccine is linked to febrile seizures. Can you believe how things can be spun in a way to make masses think one way, even if it's not 100% truth?

>>2300199
I don't even own land, and you're retarded. The very least they could do is compensate with a little cash or some of that land they are selling to china.
Not all endangered species are globally endangered. Some animals get labeled endangered because they are rare to be seen in a specific area, often because they weren't really made to thrive in that area

>>2300211
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/16/private-property-endangered-species-pose-problems-landowners.html
I was looking specifically for a story I read in a magazine about a man (in Florida I believe) who was building a home on his land, then they found an endangered species of bird there and he wasn't allowed to continue building anything. The best part is the bird was only endangered on that side of the mountain, and was flourishing on the other side. If any one can link it for me that would be great.

>>2300105
God trump apologists will literally sit there while he fucks shit up and tell themselves "d-don't worry, h-he's going to replace it l-later!!"

trumpfags could be burning to death in a house he set on fire and still believe that he's just getting rid of it to build them a new one

>>2300223
>foxnews
Really?

Can any if you link to an article about the guy having his land seized? Ive found stuff about the bundies and people being told they cant cut trees or such but I haven't found anything about this alleged bird sanctuary on a mountain in Florida

>>2300219
I don't believe you. Land isn't seized without compensation unless you're breaking the law.

>>2300223
>a bunch of environmental ignorance and conspiracy theories

God damn I hate Trumptards. They literally take pride in being unintelligent.

>>2300234
Imminent domain
Typically a state will only resort to this if the landowner has refused fair offers, the property is logistically important, or small sections designated for municipals and utilities.
Typically, but there are always exceptions.

>>2300223
>Some animals get labeled endangered because they are rare to be seen in a specific area, often because they weren't really made to thrive in that area

No dumbfuck. They are listed when their former habitat is destroyed.

>>2300237
So he refused payment. This is not the same as "seized without compensation". And I still care more about the bird.

>>2300237
Imminent domain wont stop if the endangered species act goes away
States do it all the time for land to build infrastructure on
this is just a bunch of people being paid by oil and logging companies and they dress it up as a rights issue without dealing with the real problem (imminent domain and civil forfeitures)

>>2300232
I'm not finding shit other than 'its not going to happen'. What makes me even more skeptic is that I know a handful of people with land who farm/hunt, and they've actually received assistance in managing it to ensure it'd still be a thriving habitat/or had enough of it aside for environmental reasons.
My old job also has protected wetlands on their property with a confirmed endangered butterfly population. Despite it being one of two or three places in that state with the butterfly, they still got the go ahead to tear it down. I'm sure it varies, but I don't believe that this guy got kicked out AND was never compensated in the slightest.

https://www.fws.gov/athens/whatifes.html

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/the-5-biggest-myths-about-the-endangered-species-act/

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>>2300060
Goodbye all, see you in a few million years (or not).

>>2300231
>it's not sauce if it's not CBS

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st303.pdf
http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1243&context=cjlpp
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/publications/papers/StateEndangeredSpeciesActs.pdf

>>2300236
>Has no rebuttal
>still thinks he's right
Heh Ok kid

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/e1.short
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/129/5/809.short
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18340332

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=VN7WFz9Aq68C&oi=fnd&pg=PA135&dq=Climate+change+vs+global+warming&ots=eqImu7GlJe&sig=SZ5pb9QY4KkfzDjQqw1ISpgpaAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://gms-wga.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bio-brief2l_TA7833_climate_change_LAO_2013.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gerald_North/publication/6108220_Abrupt_Climate_Change_and_Extinction_Events_in_Earth_History/links/02e7e532c3ef2ae202000000.pdf

I will say I do believe that people make a significant impact on the climate. However, when doing the bulk of the research, the scientists have fucked up severely either accidentally or to make it look much worse than it was at the time. We don't currently have a good enough understanding about our climate and it's change because of those early misconceptions or lies.

>>2300231
After all the bullshit CNN and the other news outlets have spewed?

As shitty as foxnews is, I'd trust it before I'd trust any of it's libscum competitors.

>>2300254
the endangered species > hurt feefees of landowners. Sorry you don't like it

>>2300103
Republicans have been doing that for the past 8 years though, with the current president elect being one of the louder voices.

>>2300265
People's lives > hippies hurt fee fees

>>2300255
>I agree with them, so that makes them trustworthy

>>2300271
How old were you when King Nigger took office? How many riots do you remember hearing about?

All I remember was a few south park episodes and drama over said south park episodes, and a ton of people making baseless claims that kids were saying nigger in class. But with George W. Bush and Bush senior there were riots in the streets and at inauguration. Liberals have always been known to be the crybabies, because they've always been largely made up of the young generation who doesn't know what it's like yet to lose

maybe go tell fuckin' china an india to stop the brute impact of pollution first. They've already fucked it beyond repair.
Guilt tripping western nations on actions they are not responsible for is retarded.

>>2300280
>riots

most protests i've seen going to work was just them walking down the street chanting

>>2300281
It's white people's fault, though

>>2300280
I recall there were some targetted attacks, a black guy who was dragged behind a pickup and a burned store in the after Obama won the election
back in the 2008, among other violent incidents.

It's useless sword rattling, they won't be able to repeal it.

This is a political tactic to distract the other side from some other floor issue they intend to introduce.

>>2300199

He did however deserve to be reimbursed. He didn't purchase that land knowing that there was some endangered bird species there. Not to mention, the government reserves the right at any point to do whatever they wish with it whether there are birds there or not.

>>2300211
>this is why most species are endangered
Quite the opposite, unregulated plundering of their resources is why they are endangered, that and being banned from being kept in captivity, putting them on a list just made it worse.
Allowing them to be kept in captivity and be farmed allows them to be defended by private investors. You could relocate them to a better area.
If you don't understand the white rhino problem you're a fucking moron, which you've allready proven to be.
>>2300274
>They are not trustworthy because all my liberal media pundits and comedians say so
Fox news is the most reliable cable news network in the United States.

>>2300272
endangered animal lives > faggots who are too lazy to move

Not everything is about you

>>2300402
>Allowing them to be kept in captivity and be farmed allows them to be defended by private investors.
>what is the Tasmanian Tiger

>>2300406
Where in the world did you get the notion that
A. the Tasmanian tiger was farmed privately
or
B. that I was talking about the government putting bounties out in endangered species

How exactly fucking retarded are you?

Tigers are actually the animals that would benefit the MOST from farming as there is a sizable population in captivity allready.
>>2300404
Read the constiution.
Private property is named explicitly.
Endangered animals are not.

>still no links to proof of the government seizing land from people without pay specifically because of the Endangered Species Act

Really sizzles my sirloin

Reminder that our soon to be attorney general Jeff Sessions supports civil forfeiture and if you think this is actually about curtailing government power you're a fool.

>>2300204
Farming doesn't take into consideration the genetic diversity of the species. Not very helpful for conservation.

Besides, why would anyone farm the economically-useless endangered species anyway?

>>2300211

>>allowing people to farm them

>This is why most endangered species are endangered.


What are alligators?

>>2300103
>>>2300101
>Your right. Maybe I should just throw a tantrum and say he's not my president like the opposition.
>>>2300100
>Good thing I wasn't replying to you then, faggot.

You're*

>>2300041
Explain yourself please, I do not understand, not her by the way
>>2300036
Well that hamster is kind of retarded, they do fine in Eastern-Europe but in Western Europe they are what in Dutch is called "culture-followers". They used to be a pest in agricultural lands with wheat, they could not keep up with the agricultural changes.

In fact many more species - in for example the Netherlands - found new niches in agricultural lands but most cannot keep up with the new intensive agriculture.

>>2299997
>The government has too much power! The only solution is to give all of that power to foreign corporations not answerable to the American people instead :^)

>>2300034
What's wrong with cousin fucking?

>>2300180
>He wasn't reimbursed anything for it
He lied to you about that, it's actually in the Constitution that the government can seize your land for any reason so long as they pay you a "fair rate" which they themselves decide. It's called eminent domain.

>>2300446
The same people that breed endangered roaches and tiny fish. Universities and private hobbyists. The Act makes it impossible for private breeders to own any institution's surplus along with networking to find unrelated males.

>>2300455
>Comparing a generalist macropredator akin to a reptilian raccoon to a specialized warbler (or whatever you want) that only nests in a single species of tree/etc.
>>>>>>>>>>back to /pol/

>>2300402
>kept in captivity and farmed

Yeah this might work for the five or six large species that are "attractions", but there are thousands on the list. Don't be a dumbfuck just to defend your tribe.

>>2300410
>muh constitution

Not an argument. It's been made irrelevant by both sides.

>>2300418
Because there isn't any. It's a made-up excuse to sell more land to fracking and logging.

>defending literally Disney evil villain-tier policy

Trumptards are cancer.

>>2300418
But there have been links about that, just not that one specific case in Florida that was covered by some now dead conservationist magazine
>>2300254
>>2300223
>inb4 source is shit because it doesn't support my opinions

>>2300446
Because rare things become more valuable. If supply is low, demand rises even if demand was not high when supply was high. I learned this in high school on America's education system, you have no excuse to not know this.

>>2300404
If you want to help endangered species, you should kill yourself. You make a huge impact on the environment. Not everything is about you, take one for the team faggot.

>>2300603
It would actually have the best effect for smaller species, as large ones like elephants or tigers are more difficult to house because of their size, and will require permits, they are more difficult to just handle in general. Private zoos, and really zoos in general, are shills that do it for the money, they don't give a fuck about inbreeding or how healthy their stock is. Hell zoos don't even take over-breeding into consideration, and there have been huge controversy about zoos killing off their excess common animals in the past. Your average insect freak or biology teacher with a frog hobby would actually make a big difference if they were allowed to. For mammals, reintroduction into the wild is largely a failed concepts. For whatever reason we haven't figured out how to properly do it yet and most will die in the first year. So for mammals, keeping them for breeding is not helpful. But birds, insects, reptiles and plants reintroduction works well. I'm not sure about fish.

>>2300606
>He's a Disney villain guys!
This is why children are not allowed to vote.

>>2300410
the point was that attempting to keep an endangered species going through captivity instead of protecting them and their habitat in the wild is retarded

>tries using the inbred tigers in zoos and neglected illegal backyard tigers for their argument
ffs

and like >>2300418 said, still haven't provided evidence of your claims beyond some papers saying that the ESA is inconvenient for some people and industries

>>2300610
I would love to see the look on people's faces if you actually tried shilling a "I want the endangered species act repealed because it's inconvenient" argument. You would indeed look like a whackjob Disney villain.

>>2300610
No one is going to "farm" or protect most endangered species without government incentive. Why is your stupid political tribe "winning" so important to you that you have to spout obvious bullshit?

Trumptards don't understand ecology. Keeping some species alive in a zoo (which isn't even possible for many of them and wouldn't be done anyway) isn't the point of the act. It's about protecting disappearing habitat and ecosystems.

>>2300610
Are you trying to make the point that private breeding (outside of mammals) protects the integrity of a species more than preserving their habitat? You mentioned inbreeding in mammals before, what makes you think that the means for collecting organisms for trade isn't EXACTLY the same for zoos? After all, you did say that zoos in general are a business.

>>2300604
You saying it's irrelevant doesn't mean it is.
>both sides
>polar politics
>current year
Yeah you're just mentally retarded, I'm convinced

>>2300614
the Tasmanian Tigers extinction was not from people keeping them and breeding them in captivity, they were systematically exterminated.

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>>2299997
I know some species don't need to be on it anymore and I feel we should focus on more obscure organisms.
Repealing it completely is stupidity.

>>2300011
Which side is the Crips and which is the Bloods?

>>2300619
Why are liberals always so nearsighted? Has it ever occurred to you that the act could be changed or replaced? Why is there only one possible option for you? Oh wait, that would be too complicated for your kid's movie view on the world.

Trump hasn't even looked at the ESA let alone thinking about repealing it.

>>2300620
>What are alligator farms

>>2300624
We are selling tons of the ecosystem overseas, why not just take back what we sold off to China and let country bumfuck billjoe have his cabin innawoods?

>>2300625
Because zoos do it solely for profit. Some people will also do it for profit but you're more likely to come across people who genuinely care than zoos that do. Think of it like dogs; puppy mills are purely shit and do it for profit. BYBs, while some may mean well, aren't commercialized but still shit. Then you have the good breeders that actually care and make no money off it.

>>2300638
To be fair, no one in any kind of power to repeal it has talked about the act at all. But I do agree it needs to be changed. I bet it won't be touched at all in the next 4 years.
Obviously red - Republican and blue - Democrat

>>2300643
>red - Republican and blue - Democrat
That makes sense.

>>2300610
>It would actually have the best effect for smaller species, as large ones like elephants or tigers are more difficult to house because of their size, and will require permits, they are more difficult to just handle in general.
On the other hand their popularity is so high that the benefits are greater than the costs. Which is why more obscure species (which specially happens with small ones) are often overlooked. And as you said they do it for the money (although some might do also more conservation efforts than the average).

>For mammals, reintroduction into the wild is largely a failed concepts.
Cases like the Spanish lynx say otherwise. You got a specie on the border of extinction limited to a national park and after 10-15 years of efforts ,more or less, the population has increased and sightings and traces more than 600km away from the starting point have been reported (which is the most impressive thing imo), and was able to jump from the CR category to EN.

>>2299999
Am I the only one that noticed quints?

>>2300012
There's 2 quints, one quads. This thread gets digits

>>2301160
The lynx died off due to it's main food source dying off (rabbits). It wasn't just reintroduction, they not only improved the habit but also started stocking the rabbits. I wouldn't be surprised if most of their comeback was due to the added rabbits and not the reintroduction. 22 lynx were killed by cars the year after they started introducing them to the wild

The same could be said for pandas, they went from endangered to at risk and their conservation efforts included reintroduction. However, even though reintroduction was part of the conservation that led to pandas no longer being endangered, the actual reintroduction was a complete failure. Most pandas returned to the wild died in a year, and none of them reproduced before dying. So you can see how it would be misleading.

And even if the lynx was an outlier and it actually did help, that's all it is - an outlier. Most mammals do not do well with reintroduction, it's generally something added on top like protection from hunting, adding food source, etc that actually makes the difference.

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>>2299997
>Doesn't even understand ecology
Don't need to understand ecology when you're a Republican. You just need to know how to please rich assholes and pretend that nothing is wrong with pollution. Democrats may be stuck up pricks, but they at least accept science.

>>2300643
Zoos do NOT breed animals merely for profit, it's just that they have no better means of obtaining their specimens, much like hobbyists, majority of organisms come from a single/select few populations. So majority of animals you see in trade or on display are far more susceptible to hereditary issues, regardless of how the curator "cares" about them. I've been behind the scenes at a few zoos, they understand the issue of increasing genetic diversity, which is why they often screen potential breeders before they pick mates. Just try to remember that someone caring is not quite the same thing as a person who understands.

>>2301255
>but they at least accept science.
Yet they refuse to accept the results of an election, and insult and ridicule anyone with a different perspective.
Yeah, so tolerant, so progressive.

>>2301255
>at least accept science.
Like everything, for good boy points. And also the amount of lefties crying about GMOs and falling for the alternative medicine meme is too high.

>>2299997
it literally won't get passed so it doesn't matter

>>2300254
>https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/febrile-seizures.html
>Febrile seizures do not cause any permanent harm and do not have any lasting effects.

Oh, but do please go on with your fear mongering and backpedaling.

>>2300000
>can burgers do ANYTHING right?
can Republicans do ANYTHING right? ftfy

>>2301358
They can win an election.

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>>2301366

>>2300034
>stereotypes
Ugh, it's 2017. I can't even

>>2300236
>being ableist
Holy shit you're toxic

>>2301255
They accept a specific, cherry picked version of science.

>>2301333
>Ignores the other sources

And if you know what a seizure is, you should know that it's entirely situational on whether or not you will get hurt. Have a seizure in a high chair? While a sibling is holding the baby? Generally seizures alone do not kill people, so I guess you're right there. Seizures are a-ok because they don't often kill people alone ;^)

And if you ever look it up, it isn't just a single case of the shakes for half a minute. There are usually a few minutes at a time, but they happen multiple times, sometimes in quick succession and sometimes it is dragged out to days and some cases weeks.

And that's where the anti vaxxers came to be baby killers, because they didn't want their infant child subject to something completely avoidable by waiting a few weeks. And then uneducated fucks that can't make a connection or think beyond their hugboxes start shaming them for being better parents

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>>2299997

>>2301884
Hey different guy here but i'm looking at one of your sources and I have a question.

The thesis of this article seems to be that the benefit of humans will also benefit the endangered species, and that a law that deters humans will also hurt endangered species.

But the evidence so far (i'm not done with it yet) does not seem to be advocating a complete repeal of the act, which is what the OP was discussing, rather it seems to be focusing on certain oversights and specific situations which could be easily fixed if one were to change the language of the bill.

Both Figure 1 and Figure 2 both have the same problem, which is that the land's value decreases when an endangered species is on it. Now this could be considered a reason to repeal the ASA but it also allows a reason to strengthen it. If people are more likely to cut down trees when an endangered animal is on their land to get it off, then they will have no problem with allowing federal or state employees to come onto their property to move those same animals correct?

>>2302991
Also, this is not an unbiased source. I understand it is very credible and trustworthy, but that does not make it unbiased. The frequent use of referencing the "Death Tax", whch a democrat would tell you doesn't affect anyone other than the very wealthy, is enough to identify a potential conservative bias.

I'm not discrediting your source, but I urge you to understand that just because a source is trustworthy does not mean it is infallible and should be followed to the letter. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find a liberal source that contradicts or refutes yours.

Also forgot the link to the source i'm referring to because i'm groggy.
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st303.pdf

This shit is only an issue because of butthurt ranchers who want to exterminate grey wolves, a demographic with a pretty huge degree of financial control over the Republicans party.

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>>2299999
>>2300000

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Wake me in 4 to 8 years.

>>2300034
Statements like this are exactly why the Republicans won the lower class.

No cunt is going to vote for you if you insult them, especially if your opponent is promising to out food on their table.

>>2303287
Even completely disregarding that, you have to be completely retarded to vote republican if you're paying any attention to what they're doing.

Absolutely 100% of republican voters are either enormously stupid, misinformed, seeing to fuck over everyone through their business, or malicious.

>>2303324
I know they are going to ELECTROCUTE THE GAYS how horrible! Literally going to end the fucking world! We're all going to die! Take your suicide tabs now people, before they deport you

>>2300501
>her
???

>>2303331
Thanks for making my point.

fuck Animals, if they can't live without human help them the die

also fuck pandas fucks should have died out a longtime ago

Who cares, you're all gonna die and you'll never have a say in what happens to animals or anyone for that matter

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>/pol/tards fell for the trump memes

>>2300181
Since humans don't matter, why don't you kill yourself and give all your property to the feds?

>>2300265
>animals have more rights than humans
Survival of the fittest. Those faggot animals can't compete with humanity so they deserve to get wiped out.

And like everyone else, it's "we're just animals, laws of nature, et cetera" when you want one thing, then you want something else thirty seconds later and it's "humans are above nature, we're different and special and this is our right."

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>>2300180

Shoulda grabbed a bird and held a gun to its head, telling the feds to back off or the bird gets it.

>>2303356
You're welcome, us strong independent black women need to stick together and love Trump's hate. HE WILL NOT DIVIDE US

>>2300007
Counter argument
It's not, species disappear all the time
Nature has killed off more species that we could ever dream of

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>>2300034
>>2303324

Keep it up and it'll be 16 more years.

>>2303659

>We're tired of being called dumbfucks, so we're going be dumbfucks and vote for trump.

mmm k

>>2303659
>>2303475
Well worth the "dumbfuckistan" nickname.

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This thread is so animals

>>2300180
things that literally didnt happen, the post

>>2303654
nature also causes fires and floods but we don't kick out the fire departments and tear down the dams

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>plan to roll back PARTS
>thsi means they're going to repeal the whole thing
THOSE EVIL RETHUGLICANS OH NO
Holy shit, you liberals are dumb.

>>2303666
Thanks for the input, Satan.

>libshits btfo

I could use 8 more years of this. Say goodbye to the EPA too :^)

>>2301170
Of course, it is very naive of course to say that reintroduction was the only thing that made recovery possible. Opening the water tap a to fill a bathtub with a hole in it has the same effect.
But reintroduction still works in its main purpouse which is reinforce the populations. The problem with most lynxes are that settled adults kick them out of their territories and they have to fend for themselves outside Doñana. Needless to say, the fabulous Spanish infrastructure makes it hard as fuck for them to find new territories.In fact iirc, there is NO reintroduced lynx that died of other causes than roadkill or people that killed them accidentaly or not (even though you can get in prison for that) .

Still,even if in general doesn't really work, rather than think "it's just and outlier, it won't help other cases" what should be done is try to mimick the success of this one. And of course if the issue why the specie is on the verge of obvlivion isn't solved at least do something about it.

>>2300223
>The best part is the bird was only endangered on that side of the mountain, and was flourishing on the other side.

You don't understand enough about ecology to even be allowed to have an opinion.

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>>2305443
>http://reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15906G

say goodbye to your environment too. Thank fuck scientists backed up data to servers outside the US

>>2305518
>Thank fuck scientists backed up data to servers outside the US
>implying this was anything but fear mongering

>>2305572
>implying their reasons for fear aren't valid

>>2305580
>the reasons are valid cuz Trump is a racist!
I literally can't even :D

>>2303202
This. It makes me so fucking angry.

>>2303477
You can't compete with all of humanity either, maybe we should wipe you out

>>2305489
So are we just ignoring the first introduction resulted in over half of the cats dying in the first year? I'm not saying it will never be plausible but right now we just really suck at it, and relying on it accomplishes nothing.

>>2305581
>didn't even read the article
have fun with your "alternative facts" then

wtf i hate clapistan now

>>2299998
I'm from /pol/ but this still rustles my jimmies why? for what purpose?

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>>2299997
To be fair, there are parts of it that are bumfuck retarded, as well as inflexible.
It needs a revamp, and if you bothered to read the article, you'd know that.
But no, you chose to be lazy and arrogant.

>>2300125
>rich people supported by middle class women
si

>>2300231
Fox unironically provides information and news that is true to source and topic more often than MSNBC, CNN, and BBC.

>>2301255
>complained for years about GMOs with zero evidence to support their claims
>to this fucking day
yeah k they sure do accept science

>>2302991
>>2302999
>mention of death tax is now cause for question of the source when it is relevant
jesus christ on roller skates, anon.

>>2305518
>fearing it might vanish
>for no reason
neat fear mongering. At worst, they'd lose funding.

>>2300122
and where exactly do you think hillary would have led us?
where do you think bernie would have led us?
what about the clinton crimes syndicate made hillary a better president that business tycoon trump?
how are business owner and organ farmer synonimous?

you obiously have no idea what youre talking about. that or you havent thought it through yet.

face it. america. our fine republic was saved.

>>2300134
WHAT IS POLITICAL EXPERIENCE?

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?

politician is just the name of the office.
what matters is how past experience dictates the politicians actions.
and going by the most recent lineup of people filling in the role. id say were ready to fibally move on ahead

>>2305640
>for no reason
it's no secret that trump and his administration are not only bumfuck clueless about climbate change and gain monetarily from it not being addressed. The trump administration has already tried suppressing climbate change data. Read the link

>>2300237
and what is a fair offer according to tge state?

>>2305719
>and going by the most recent lineup of people filling in the role. id say were ready to fibally move on ahead
trump's cabinet picks has even many of his own supporters cringing. Can't tell if just a troll or brainwashed /pol/ cuck to worship everything trump does

And by your logic people who get high paying powerful jobs don't need any experience in that field because LOL WHAT DOES EXPERIENCE MEAN amiright?

>Article about something that hasn't even been talked about yet
>Turns /an/ into /pol/
God, this whole presidency is beautiful on so many levels

>>2305725
Maybe it's the push needed to finally delete /pol/

>>2305726
God, I hope so.
What would even happen?

>>2303674
>classic liberal
They're as big a meme as An-cap lolbetarians
Progressive is the way to go, SJW boogeyman is irrelevant, the alt-right cry-babies are 100 times louder and more prevalent on the internet and real life than SJWs

>>2299997
Fuck why are we trusting white people with animal protection

Remember when they pretty much ran the buffalo into extinction in 10 years when the natives had been living off of those herds for thousands of years. The rich white dudes only care about the almighty dollar. Fuck some wimpy animal that isn't good for profit, right?

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it's time to be afraid my dudes

>>2305728
Probably them spilling out onto other boards since their little echo chamber is gone, then leaving once people stop playing into their bait and trolling. Likely would move to another site if we're lucky

>>2305738
I live in a town that is supposedly filled with SJWs and in day to day life I've known maybe like.. 7 or 8 Classic SJWs over the past couple years. I've seen far more alt righters getting toasty over them than the SJWs themselves. there were two I knew from school who were arrested for threatening to shoot it up that were alt right as fuck

Unless of course you're the type of person that thinks any left leaning person is a SJW, but that's like when republicans get mad over people saying all right wing people are nazis

>>2305980
https://apnews.com/c1423276fb574b07953651a68a082db9/EPA-science-under-scrutiny-by-Trump-political-staff?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Public lands are fucked. Wildlife is fucked. All while fat fucking Trumptards sit on their grease-stained sofas and whine about "SJWs" they saw online. Fuck you goddamn morons.

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>>2305984
slightly better but still ridiculously fucked

>The scientific integrity document expressly "prohibits managers and other Agency leadership from intimidating or coercing scientists to alter scientific data, findings or professional opinions or inappropriately influencing scientific advisory boards."
until now, apparently

looks like NASA is next

>>2300418
They don't seize it, just prevent development of it, this costing the owners money.

>>2305987
You are really blaming people for democratically electing someone, and you're unhappy with the results? HOW ABOUT LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE WHO SWITCHED SIDES?? Maybe then you fuckers could win and most people would be happy.

I mean it's no wonder you lost, you riot when Trump wins fair and square, you DON'T riot when Bernie gets dumped, by your OWN corrupt side for Hillary?!

The republicans listened to the people, and took Trump, just like the democrats should've picked Bernie!

BLAME YOURSELVES!

>>2305827
Fuck white people! Death to whitey!

>>2305995
No one is rioting. Just because people voted for him doesn't mean it was a good decision. Most people are fucking dumb. I'd rather just have technocrats like China desu.

>>2306004
>No one is rioting
Literal riots in the streets after Trump was elected.

>>2306007
>marches=riots
Are you a cop?

>>2300060
>global warming shill
Overpopulation is the cause of it all. Don't underestimate the immigration policy lads

>>2306016
Not the anon you replied too, but I thought there was riots in Portland right after the election.
I'm not sure considering there is a protest every other day anymore.

>>2306025
I live in Eugene and from what I've seen and heard is that there was disruption in Portland that night, but to call it a full on riot is a little overblown and all the protests after that were remarkably peaceful

I did however hear that riots were happening in DC more than anywhere else, which does make sense when you think about it

>>2306025
The woman marches also resulted in businesses being broken into, most notably were the Starbucks and bank in DC but the local March by me also had damage to business.

Once you start breaking and entering, it stops being a protest and is upgraded to riot

>>2306040
>womans rights march
>wear vagina costumes
>"stop objectifing me"!
Jesus fuck, what a way to discredit a good cause.

>>2305614
>So are we just ignoring the first introduction resulted in over half of the cats dying in the first year?
You make it sound as if they were kill because they weren't suitable for living by their own, when most of the time these lynxes die by the hands of humans.

Captive breeding (and to some extent, reintroduction) give you an influx of specimens that might not be possible in wildlife conditions.At the very least it slows down extinction, and that is undeniable.

Also:
Wikipedia on the Iberian lynx article
>There were 14 surviving kittens in 2008 and 15 in 2009.[66] In 2010, intense rain and health issues resulted in lower reproductive success—14 born, 8 surviving[66]—but the next year, breeding centers recorded 45 births with 26 surviving kittens.[67] In 2012, breeding centers in Portugal and Spain reported a total of 44 survivors from 59 births,[67][68] while 2013 saw a total of 44 survivors out of 53 born.

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/sociedad/lince-iberico-alcanza-poblacion-440-ejemplares-5731258
>Spanish lynx population is about 440 specimens (4 times bigger than almost a decade ago)
>The endangered specie grows in every repopulation area
>12 lynxes died on the road in 2016, 15 in 2015 and 22 in 2014

If what you are saying is that if you don't solve or ease external problems that endanger the animal in the first place (which is the case of roads, or the rabbit crisis) it becomes pointless effort, then I agree. But saying that it accomplishes nothing by default is wrong.

>>2306065
It sounds like those lynxes were born in breeding centers, which does nothing for the wild population unless they can survive and reproduce in the wild. I believe if they fixed the fact that the fucking things had no food supply, that alone would have fixed the issue, there would have been more breeding and more being able to survive.

>>2306097
>does nothing for the wild population unless they can survive and reproduce in the wild.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/natural/20160506/401608863089/linces-libertad-toledo.html
>It has been confirmed the birth of a litter in Toledo
>The mother was a female that was born in a breeding center in Silves (Portugal) and was reintroduced in 2014
>Another litter in that territory was a product of a male from that same center and a female from the breeding center of Granadilla
>Each of those litters had four kittens
>In Vale do Guadiana (Portugal) one of the first lynx that were reintroduced in that country (in 2015) was spotted with 45 day old cub

>I believe if they fixed the fact that the fucking things had no food supply, that alone would have fixed the issue
Not when amongst the problems that it has to deal with is a ridiculously tiny distribution. Also, this isn't like the panda where the problem is just "the fuckers don't have anything to eat, give them more space to eat bamboo and that's done". If I'm not mistaken lynxes, like pretty much every medium to large sized mammal in the Peninsule, already were getting fucked over by hunters and everything. The mixomycosis outbreak was just the nail in the coffin.

> there would have been more breeding and more being able to survive.
Considering the number of deaths, leaving the reproductive couples to fend for themselves outside those centers seems a little risky. Specially when the population is so low.

>>2306194
Are you trying to prove animals don't have to reproduce to continue their own species? Because you're doing a bad job of it.
If you read your own material they stated the main reason for their decline was lack of rabbits. They added rabbits, and the lynx species made a comeback

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>Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species.

>>2306271
Good, because there are too many humans and too few endangered animals.

>>2306263
>Are you trying to prove animals don't have to reproduce to continue their own species?
No, I'm trying to prove that good breeding+reintroduction programs are better than not having anything, and those litters born to captive bred lynx are my example. What you say is to leave the captive reproductors in the forest to have more specimens, disregarding that you are putting at risk animals that could be used to generate more stock, which is needed.

>If you read your own material they stated the main reason for their decline was lack of rabbits.
Yes and it DID work, but that huge comeback of cuadruplicating their population and extend their distribution thousands of kms across the Peninsule (if we take the starting points Doñana and Sierra Morena, and compare to what we have today) would probably not be possible at least in that short time.In a most pesimistic scenario, I think it would have died off in the 2020's if no reintroduction program was made.

Reintroduction works, it just serves as a way to speed up things or have an ace in your sleeve in case things get ugly or are already that bad. Case in point, addax and scimatar oryx.

>>2306271
>Implying humanity can't work on those two
>Implying in some cases solving the former isn't the best way to prevent some species extinction

But really, people don't give a shit. More people get upset and sad to muh inmigrants than to muh animuhls.

>>2303324
>democrats in a bubble pretending to "hip and with it" to the point Nancy Pelosi, democrat minority leader, said she didn't think anyone wanted any change in the democrat party, this right after trump won over hillary
They're both fucking garbage, if not equally garbage for their own fun reasons.
And our little tussles online and irl are keeping it that way. Too distracted fighting neighbors to kick them into shape.
Accept this, it makes life easier.
Enmity is the cancer killing political discourse in this country and abroad.
Good job everyone on feeding into the cancer, good thread on /an/.

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>>2305991
>in favor of deep space exploration
FUCKING
YES
All those resources in asteroids that can drawf total supply on earth, and we wouldn't need to rape our environment to get at them...my God, Trump don't stop now!
MAKE EARTH ITSELF GREAT AGAIN
Wait fuck that, we can leave earth and make the whole solar system our home, with all those nice little moons, oh I'm feeling it.
This happened because it needed to happen. Deregulation of business leads to ease for space companies to get going, and with presidential support, oh my knees are getting weak.