This still pisses me off

>>2298358
I think you mean terrible proto-mammal

>>2298360
Though it's true that synapsids are more to mammal than lizard or mammal-like reptile, but aren't they just reptile at the end?

>>2298358
RRREEEEEEEE

>>2298358
>push it over by the sail
>stand on sail
not so turrble now, are ya?

Yeah, it's terrible at being a lizard. That's why it isn't one.

>>2298366
>but aren't they just reptile at the end?
at the end they're either mammals or they're dead.

>>2298358
dumb fucking synapsids. such a tease. I though you were cool dimetrodon, but you're just a fucking mammal

>>2298366
Isn't reptlie just a meme?
It can mean whatever you want it to.
That's what I get from reading Wikipedia, at least.

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>>2298541
Some people suggest birds should be considered reptiles to tie up loose ends. Without them, reptilia is a paraphyletic term.

>>2298541
>>2298561
yeah "reptile" is just being used here because that's what most people are used to. Sauropsida is what I would officially call it, but if I just said that to a stranger they wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

>>2298561
Well, reptilia is a better group, then you can include birds, which should be easier. But just reptiles, then you include synapsids, and then you exclude mammals. Double paraphyletic. If you can have reptilia, consider synapsids non-reptiles, and birds reptiles, then it's cleaned up, but there is no agreement. Some even include amphibians. It all comes down to your opinion. Should reptile be a real word, or just an inaccurate word used by casuals?

There's a similar thing with fish. Some think fish should be a paraphyletic word, other insist keeping it a real word, and that cats and birds are fish. You could also have both, but then you'd have to consider lung fish and sharks non-fish, and limit it to just ray-finned fish. Imo, we should just let fish include everything, and have it a real word.

>>2298576
>i-if birds can be reptiles then everything must be fish!

I hate those dumb people

>>2298598
What's wrong with that?
It's just about wanting to use the word "fish" for a monophyletic group. You could remove fish from everything and just use latin names, but I think it's nice to use real words for things. There is literally nothing wrong with saying whales are fish.
If you want to talk about water based fish, just say "non-terrestrial fish", like how you say "non-avian dinoraurs".

>>2298607
Come to think about it, don't we already have the word vertebrate? There are no vertebrates that aren't fish, right? We don't really need the word fish, so maybe we should just let "fish" be, and use it for whatever people want it to.

>>2298607
its a stupid reductive argument because at the end of it you end up with everything just being single celled organisms because there decedent from single celled organisms

there comes a point when a group evolves sufficiently different from its ancestors to the point there not outwardly recognizably related.

you don't look at a human and a jellyfish and say humans are bilateral land jellyfish. because at this point there so sufficiently different they warrant being 2 distinct ends of a gigantic family tree

>>2298373
>place boulder on sail
Fuck Trump and fuck dimetrodons.

>>2298607
we only say stuff like "avian dinosaur" because we spread misinformation for so long that people wouldn't understand that just the word "dinosaur" could refer to a bird.

>>2298678
you're confusing the organism for which the clade is named for the morphology of that member.

if your mom's name is Smith you're still a Smith even though you look nothing like her.

it's fine though, most people here aren't smart enough to understand basic biology like this. Just be aware that your outrage means exactly shit. Scientists aren't going to stop calling humans bony fishes just because it irritates your autistic OCD and grade-school ignorance.

What's so bad about paraphyly?

>>2298924
nothing.
It's useful to ecologists
useless to taxonomists

>>2298849
>counter argument consists entirely of insults an ad homenim

k

>>2299028
no argument is necessary.
your view is outdated for reasons you don't understand and your uneducated opinion doesn't even slightly matter.

sorry if you consider that an insult

>>2298849
so in that case shouldn't scientists refer to all multi cellular live as single celled eucaryotes since theyd form a clade? And all eucaryotes as Asgard Archea?

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>>2299032

>this fucking thread

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>>2299033
we do.

humans are eukaryotes

>>2299037
>humans are eukaryotes

also water is wet

more news at 11!


yes but what are eukaryotes?

>>2299034
honestly you're the one insulting others by being this ridiculously uninformed in public.

your ideas were popular in the 1800's and rejected by 1945. Literally older than your grandparents. Your understanding is so old it would be collecting retirement right now if it was still alive and kicking.

but we buried it ages ago. It's so long dead we can smell the rot of it in your breath and on your words. An ancient mistake resurrected by your meager mind and paraded like some ragged puppet before us all while you pretend it's new and valuable.

you are pathetic. Your education is pathetic. You should be embarrassed to speak in front of adults and you should apologize to each and every one of us for inflicting your outdated smarmy stupidity on us as if it mattered or you were somehow equal to the conversation or its weakest of participants.

you are a joke. A sad, sorry joke.

>>2299039
>A eukaryote (/juːˈkæri.oʊt/ or /juːˈkæriət/ yoo-KARR-ee-oht or yoo-KARR-ee-ət) is any organism whose cells contain a nucleus and other organelles enclosed within membranes.

>>2299040
can this be a new copypasta?

>>2299044
save it if you like.

>>2299042
>smart ass answer

so you cant tell me what eucaryotes evolved from?

Protip:they already been mentioned in this thread

>>2299046
it doesn't bother you that you can't even spell it?

you still think you're teaching people stuff? are you literally retarded?

>>2299048
>attack the speeling

whow hows aboot yoo anser the foocking qwesthun insted?

>you still think you're teaching people stuff?

Holy fucking shit, You do realize this is 4chan right? It's not a university lecture hall. You need to calm your autism down and come back to fucking reality.

>>2299051
I imagine you pretending to teach biology, holding court here so long as nobody points out how ridiculously stupid you are.

handing out your kindergarten playground knowledge as if you were some expert. For so many years nobody bothers to challenge you and you begin to believe the shit that pours out of your stupid sheep's face.

You aren't an expert. You wouldn't even pass elementary school in the worst parts of the US if your grades actually depended on you understanding basic taxonomy.

you're woefully wrong. Completely ignorant. And so misguidedly egotistical you actually seem to believe your wrong opinions are the correct ones or that other people need to argue them.

As if your own ignorance was a reasonable argument in itself. And to you it is, because after all these years not a single person has been able to defeat it. No arrows of knowledge no matter how sharp can pierce your armor of stupid, willful ignorance. You're undefeatable, you cannot be taught anything you refuse to learn. You cannot be elevated from the swill of your own mind, so you win every argument by sitting in your own shit sucking your fingers and daring anyone to prove to your stupid brain that its stupid thoughts are wrong. Secretly you smile because you know you'll win, you're too stupid to be taught.

>>2299055
>long drawn out post that just tells someone how stupid they are.
>filled with adjectives to show off how impressive "muh vocabulary skillz"
Not the anon you are arguing with, but you should probably consider the possibility that you are both cunts.
At least that's the impression I get when I read your rambling wall of text.

>>2299055
Assuming your not a troll out for a few (you)'s I feel genuinely sorry for you, so I'm going to give you a tip for life

Not everyone is as self important as you.

I'm just a regular Joe with a bit of spare time and an interest in dinosaurs and biology in general. I'm no expert but I try to understand because it interests me. I never once claimed to be an expert on biology, a teacher or a citizen of the US for that matter. That is all assumptions YOU made. Sure I might be wrong , but your not going to sway peoples opinions by talking down to them like a colossal prick based off assumptions YOU made of them based off a few lines of text on a screen. YOU then took these assumptions and built on them until I'm some egotistical prick trying to preach down from an ivory tower with fingers in my ears.You're the one who assumed all this, You built a straw man in your head then put me in it.

For what its worth sure I can be wrong and frequently am, anyone can, nobody is perfect, People aren't bastions of logic and infallibility.

In the end I pity you because you built me up into this pseudo-intellectual arch Nemesis, off a few lines of text on the internet for no other reason then I presume to inflate you own ego.


If you want to inflate your ego just get a name and a trip its infinitely easier.


Lastly can you just answer the fucking question.
Cladisically what are eukariotes? And don't give me the domain of life bullshit they evolved 2 billion years after bacteria and archaea did. They had to evolve from something.

>>2299062
Eukaryotes evolved from some Archaea which is also the ancestor of Lokiarchaeota (Eukarya's sister clade) and was probably similar to it.

Also, this is 4chan, no need to get so worked up because of a troll.

>>2299206
eh the guys self righteousness got under my skin but thanks for the info, does this mean the theory that Eukaryotes are a decedent of a symbiotic Archaea/Bacteria is incorrect and Eukaryotes evolved organelles independently?

>>2299206
I'm not trolling.

this faggot is factually incorrect for reasons he's not educated enough to understand

AND he's challenging people to debunk his ignorance like it's their job somehow to teach him shit he doesn't want to learn.

Like it's even possible to teach him shit he doesn't want to learn.

Your board is dying, friend, and this faggot is the reason. Him and plont/bugguy, but that's if we pretend he's not plont.

>>2299257
you know what your a delusional autistic fuck

your not even worth the (you)'s

>>2299268
*you're

learn to fucking spell, moron. and stop pretending everyone that disagrees with you is wrong. Or deluded. Or autistic.

the real truth is you're an uneducated idiot and people SHOULD disagree with you. Because you're wrong.

Wow I hate this specific board and have done my fair share of headed arguments here but this thread is one special kind

>>2299275
spend enough time saying stupid shit and attacking people that disagree with you and perhaps you can be the star of a thread like this one day.

>>2299275
>headed

be careful, he'll rage at you for not spelling it correctly

>>2299238
Some organelles have their own DNA (most notably mitochondria) that is very similar to that of bacteria, so that theory is probably right.

>>2299282
thanks, so eukayotes are advanced archaea/bacteria symbionts that gradually evolved to the point they became a single organism?

>>2299280
Yeah I figured I got that wrong
And this is actually an interesting discussion

I figured myself we should stop using the words reptiles and just talk of turtles, crocodilians, lizards + snakes (?) and birds and so forth.

I sometimes can't stand it that certain stuff isn't correct(ly named), but maybe in this case we shouldn't care.

Though in the past we had stuff like this too, so I dunno. In my language reptiles and scorpions were considered the same, sorta called 'crawlers'.

>>2299285
I wouldn't say 'single' but yes.
With many different DNA molecules inside one single cell, it's important to mention that the genetic material in the eukaryote nucleus is the one nested within Lokiarchaeota, the genetic material in the organelles is not.

>>2299288
Reptile is a fine enough word to use to describe them, it just has no meaning in terms of how we classify life

if we were to apply the same logic to fish we would need about 7 or new names for the distinct orders that exist or did at some point and that's not including hagfish which debatably aren't even vertebrates

>>2299297
>Reptile is a fine enough word to use to describe them, it just has no meaning in terms of how we classify life
Well I am not even autistic but it does trigger me when we talk of reptiles it is: reptiles minus birds.

But I think folk taxonomy is fine if it exists.

To name another example of the past: Catholics declared beavers as fish so they could eat them on - I think it was - sundays.

>>2299298
fridays. if you'd ever lived in an apartment building with catholics you'd know.

>>2299298
personally I prefer Synapsid/Sauropsid, it carries none of the baggage more traditional terms carry, but that's just my personal autism. At the end of the day it is an argument of pedantics

>>2299306
I personally don't care if the average Joe (or the Bible) calls bats 'birds'. Shit like 'Canis mesomelas' which is commonly used in scientific literature really pisses me off.

>>2299319
>Canis mesomelas

if you don't mind me asking why that in particular?

>>2299330
It shouldn't carry the genus 'Canis' because Cuon and Lycaon are more related to other members of Canis than C. mesomelas is. And don't even get me started with fossil canids.

>>2299333
>And don't even get me started with fossil canids

fuck that shitshow

Also Forest elephants are more closely related to Palaeoloxodon that Elephas or Loxodonta but they wont rename them because it "complicates conservation measures"

>>2298849
nobody calls humans bony fish in the first place except for autists on 4chan who are butthurt about birds being reptiles.

>>2299040

You seem like you have a huge ego. I get the points of what you are saying but coming into this thread and seeing the way you react you are just a cunt. A smart cunt but just as douchey as a dumb cunt.

Condiscend less and I'll inbreed less since I am sure insults as to my intellect would soon follow. That or "You are beneath me".

>>2299055

I worry you have a hard on when you type like this. Don't worry I am mouth breathing to confirm your suspicions.

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>>2299040
>this level of autism

>>2299285
mitochondria lost the ability to self replicate, so cells nucleus does it for them during cell division, in return for energy production. Hence the symbiosis. This is a way we can tell all animals came from multi-cellular organisms.

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>>2299040
>this much autism in a single post

lets see if i can summon the autism


HUMANS ARN'T BONY FISH

>>2298358
Hey

At

Least

He's

>Cool

Get it? HAHA

>>2299946
>outdated theory and a bad pun