Why are dogs that are insanely different considered the same

>>2185054
>Labrador retriever
>Flat coat retriever
>Chesapeake Bay retriever
>Etc.
>Different breeds

Implying

>>2185054
One is a natural differentiation, one is a man made one.

Because separating every sufficiently flashy cultivar or breed into a separate species doesn't serve a useful enough purpose to people who actually need taxonomy for shit.

>>2185054
Dogs cannot produce offspring with foxes.

>>2185097
dog=78 chomosomes
red fox=34 chromosomes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisms_by_chromosome_count
Chickens also have 78 chromosomes, by pure chance. Meaning they can interbreed and produce viable offspring.

>>2185097
This. And foxes can't breed with wolves or dingoes either. I do think wolves, coyotes and dogs can breed with golden jackals if I remember right.

Coyotes and wolves didn't split off from either other too far back. Dingoes are semi-domesticated. They come from early dogs. They all came from wolves/some coyote canine anyway so it's no surprise they can interbreed.

Fucked up shit made by humans doesn't usually count until there's distinct established self-propagating populations of it.

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>>2185054
Biologist reporting in. My specialty is Neurobiology, but at least I didn't sleep through all other lectures.

Species is a classification not only defined by the ability to interbreed. Many vastly different species of plants can produce healthy and virile offspring.
Ecological niches also habe to be taken into account - if both species COULD breed, but are naturally separated by a mountain range, they are different species.
Then you have the issue that historically, we classified by morphology. Now we have DNA analysis and classify by genetic similarity, but.. nature doesn't work that way, we are basically trying to shoehorn a sliding scale into binary categories.

Check my geck.

>>2185118
>Ecological niches also habe to be taken into account - if both species COULD breed, but are naturally separated by a mountain range, they are different species.


>black people
>separated by the ultimate geographical barrier (the Sahara)

What shall we name subspecies of human. /an/?

>>2185155
They're the original humans.

>>2185118
Top summary from sexy geck anon. 'Species' is a very nebulous term in many ways, and most living things are on a spectrum (not the autistic one).

>>2185155
It starts with a n, ends in a r, and you don't want to call any black person this.
>inb4 neighbor

>>2185054
>Doggos can breed with wolves, dingos and foxes
>foxes
Where the fuck have you heard that?

Also, the different species within a genus are not only differentiated by appearance, but also by genetics

>>2185155
Considering that humans spread out from Africa, they're obviously able to breed. Not to mention there's black people all over the world, idiot.

>>2185081
0/10

>>2185199
>if both species COULD breed

Logically as the basal species black people would be Homo sapiens and all the others renamed.

Would be funny if they were renamed Homo niger, though.

>>2185155
Homo sapiens nigra would be my suggestion

>>2185097
Then why have they bred dogs with foxes?

>>2185155
Humans came from africa so every race is a subspecies of the original african.

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>>2185207
WE

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>>2185101
>>2185097
>dog=78 chomosomes
>Chickens also have 78 chromosomes, by pure chance. Meaning they can interbreed and produce viable offspring.
Why has this never been attempted?

>>2185204
Black people aren't basal H. sapiens though, there's clear admixture with now-extinct populations of other Homo species in sub-Saharan Africa, just as Australoids have Denisovan admixture and everyone else with Neanderthals.
>>2185207
That's not how human evolution worked, nor is speciation anywhere near as simple as that.

>>2185054

It's part of the cultural baggage of scientists and the taxonomy thing.

As research into genetics and biology improves the old model of 'anything that can reproduce with viable offspring' kind of falls apart due to things like ring species, sub species, etc.

The truth is biologists need to make up a better system of classification; personally I'm glad species will fuck off already because its raised I don't know how many generations of retards who believe living things are separated into neat little boxes when they are in fact nebulous and amoeba in genetic direction and physicality.

>>2185206
That hasn't happened.

>>2185054
Because one definition for an animal species is that it can make fertile offspring of both sexes.

Dog breeds are also only a very recent thing.
It would be like only breeding 4 foot tall chinese people for a few hundred years and then calling them a different species.

>>2185424
If foxes could breed with dogs then they could breed with wolves and coyotes. Dogs interbreeding with wolves and foxes have been recorded both in the wild and captivity but there is nothing on foxes and them despite they live in the same ranges or even the same houses. Foxes are more diverse so while if I remember correctly it's possible for artic and red fox hybrids(correct me if I'm wrong) there has been none, and they are too different for it. It's been too long, if it could happen it would have happened with any of these animals becoming 'pets'. A bat eared fox or maned wolf also isn't going to be able to breed with a red fox.

Different number of chromosomes is not always the case when it comes to hybrids. Goats and sheep, African and Asian elephants have worked even if how rare its been.

All of canis can possibly breed together with the exception of two jackal species(which may be able to breed with one another). At least with African wild dogs while it may be possible, they are rare, hard to obtain so you at least have an excuse to say why they may or may cannot.

Taxonomy isn't perfect in the slightest either. Goat and sheep hybrids were thought not such a thing and I believe there is only one recorded hybrid between and African and Asian elephant but really. Canis and the fox family have been overlapping for millions of years. It hasnt happened, so it's unlikely it ever will.

>>2185420
Genus (may or may not interbreed, but offspring are sterile, nonviable or have other fitness problems)
-Species (able to breed, including spectrum and ring)
--Subspecies (able to breed flawlessly, habitat/location divided)
---Race (phenotype where not polymorphic)

Canis Lupus Familiaris Labrador Retriever