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What're people's problem with Capt. Paul Watson?

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Thread replies: 35
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I find him very honourable. He has raised awareness about oceanic problems, such as acidification and pollutions (e.g., PCBs), and how they affect biodiversity and even our future selves.

I agree with his actions of defending cetacean life by breaking down ships and harassing stupid Faroe, Japanese fishermen, and Inuit people considering there is copious evidence defending cetacean high self-awareness and intelligence. If we acknowledge their high encephalization quotient, high degrees of brain folding, complexity of their neocortexes, psychological experiments validating strong self-awareness, and the established "theory of mind", then there is strong reason to believe their brains have a high capacity for integration and complexity, meaning they deserve to be called "non-human

While I think his means may be critiqued, one cannot disagree his end goal is not so bad.
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Why does something deserve to be alive just because its brain is more complex if it can't use that complexity to learn to avoid danger?

You know what everything that can't avoid danger is?

Extinct. And most of it not by our hands.

The earth is fuelled primarily by the sun.
This fuel allows life to form and flourish.
This life takes on many forms, each attempting to cling to a niche, each doing the same thing; surviving.

Those that are better at surviving go on, those that are worse do not. Where is the fairness in this? Nowhere, it isn't fair, never has it been fair until we came along and for some reason decided that the natural order of things is wrong.

It does not matter on any grand scale that things die.
If I die tonight, you will not give a shit.
If you die I will not give a shit.

The other whales don't give a shit.
Nothing gave a shit about the dodos.
Nothing gave a shit about the dinosaurs.

The lion does not give a shit about the gazelle and the other gazelles do not give a shit either, just so long as THEY aren't the ones getting eaten.

So where do we get off saying "Whoa, hey, you know what we're above this, we're in charge here, lets change the rules for everything"

You don't want to hunt whales? I suggest you don't get a job on a whaling boat then.

Long after we are gone and either this planet is a barren rock, lived on by something else or perhaps even destroyed, absolutely nobody will give a fuck and it will not matter.
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>>1994196

...You're very much going into what is the point of life territory. Why don't we all just kill ourselves? If life has no meaning and nothing happens after, what's the point of living?

If everything you experience means nothing, then there's no reason to live.
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Bleeding heart ex-greenpeace faggot who watched too many pirate movies and thinks he is one. One day, a destroyer is going to blow him and his crew out of the water and nobody is going to give a fuck.
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>>1994200
The point of life from a mechanical view is to on living and make more of us. That's as good an answer as I can give you to that question.

Nothing about what I said implies that there's no reason to live but it is just realistic to understand that in the end we are just going to be, at best, a footnote somewhere. That doesn't mean that we can't enjoy our lives though holy shit.

The point of life is to live, that's what life DOES, it isn't a journey to an end goal it's a constant task and we're doing it pretty fucking well all things considered, better than a lot of other things on this planet.

You can lead a happy contented and productive life while still recognizing that in the end nothing matters and some would say there is a kind of comfort in the knowledge.
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>>1994206

>You can lead a happy contented and productive life while still recognizing that in the end nothing matters and some would say there is a kind of comfort in the knowledge.

No you can't. This is literally the entire point of religion. That life has some meaning.

>Nothing about what I said implies that there's no reason to live

Everything you said implies that. If at the end we're just a footnote, what is the point of living. What's the point of "enjoying" life, if after you die everything you did doesn't matter?
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>>1994206

This line of thought leads to ideas that morality is pointless. We should all just do whatever we want, because nothing matters.
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>>1994212
>We should all just do whatever we want, because nothing matters.
that's only if you pretend your peers won't torture you for harming them.

morality is just your neighbor kicking your ass if you hurt him. And assuming the point of a pointless existence is to have fun, it's best to not hurt people. You hurt people and you're not going to have a good time.
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>>626618
Cetaceans are one of the few animals with greater apes, elephants, and corvids (this one more controversial) established to possess a "theory of mind" (i.e., "capable of modeling the thinking of others and attribute mental beliefs, desires, and intentions to both oneself and others"):

http://www.quora.com/Which-animals-have-a-theory-of-mind

Basically, they can link each instance of a mental states sequentially and continuously in their thought (i.e., called metarepresentation). They do not experience mental states "at isolated points of disparate events" unlike other animals.

Given the research, it is not crazy to claim they have narratives and suffer far more greatly than other animals.
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>>1994209
Some religions embrace that life is nothingness and simply a means to an end of itself. Faith and understanding that we're nothing in the scale of the universe and meant to fade are not mutually exclusive.

>>1994203
...and how is that not awesome? He's a freaking pirate that hunts whalers and illegal fishermen instead of sitting there and expecting countries that don't really enforce fishing laws to suddenly give a damn and start enforcing their laws.

Fun fact: the people doing this crap aren't using destroyers. They're people in small fishing boats and trawlers. In short, they're not likely to be "blown up" by them. Even dynamite fishers are more likely to run like hell than stand and fight as they don't want to get caught!
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because he's a fat faggot
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>>1994209
Are you saying unreligous people cant have happy productive lives?

Or the fact most people lean on religion because they cant accept that humanity and all its glory means nothing in the big picture of the universe.
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An ethical system does not have to be derived from religion. There are systems like virtue ethic and negative consequentialism or even utilitarianism. I think your issue is with deontological ethic, which typically treads religious territory.

Moral nihilism really has no place when discussing the suffering of other beings or people.
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>>1994240
>Given the research, it is not crazy to claim they have narratives and suffer far more greatly than other animals.

>>626625
>Given the research, it is not crazy to claim they have narratives and suffer far more greatly than other animals.

I should have said "Given the research, it is not crazy to claim they have narratives and suffer to a level comparable to humans."
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the point is, you wouldn't harm an innocent human, and given cetacean sapience, why would you harm them?
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>>1994308
Given their sapience and capacity of suffering greatly due to narrative structures, it is equivalent to killing a human being.
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>>1994187
Because he is putting other people in danger. I am all for animal rights but not at the cost of human life. Human > Animal. Period.
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>>1994187
>What're people's problem with Capt. Paul Watson?
watch southpark, you'll see.
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>>1994244

The major ones with billions of followers sure as hell don't.

>>1994266
The second bit.

>>1994232
If you're the original guy I was talking to, you're also wrong.

Everything we do DOES have an impact. For as long as the human race/animals race exists, what we do has an impact on the universe. Our experiences with other people affect the way they behave, how their children behave, how the kids a thousand generations later behave. Making sure we actually have animals for our kids to experience is not a bad thing.


>>1994333
>Human > Animal

He's not trying to kill them, just change their ridiculous behaviour.
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>>1994196
This is the most eloquent, well-thought out excuse to be a careless asshole I've ever seen.

I'm glad you've found a way to make peace with your complete inability to make a difference, be it positive or negative, on the world around you even though it's a completely self-instilled value. But do go on. Apathy is a nice, warm blanket to rot under.
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>there is copious evidence defending cetacean high self-awareness and intelligence
[citation needed]
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>>1994389
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9K_RlZ8fLU4

^ This is a good video that cites evidence from a prominent researcher in the field.
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Pigs are on par with dolphins when it comes to intelligence. Dogs are on level with human babies and are the most socially advanced creatures on earth. Crows and other corvids are extremly smart. All if them are eaten or killed just cause. Dolphins and whales are not unique or special. They're not going to go extinct from current hunting levels. There's literally no reason to be against whale/dolphin hunting.
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>>1994196
Good on you for being so realistic. I like your posts a lot.
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>>1994590
cite the research.
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>>1994649
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence

This is a notable one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33317/

Reiss, D; Marino, L (8 May 2001). "Mirror self-recognition in the bottlenose dolphin: A case of cognitive convergence". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (Proc Natl Acad Sci) 98 (10): 5937–42. doi:10.1073/pnas.101086398. PMC 33317. PMID 11331768.
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>>1994649
This was a good study too, but it had some issues. However, if you read a bunch of other studies, it can reveal a lot:

http://www.theotodman.com/Abstracts/Abstract_15/Abstract_15494.htm
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>>1994196
Considering the vast majority of recent extinctions have been attributed to man, we've been taking charge of the natural order of things far more than any environmentalists.
Your edgy nihilism and lack of concern for life is what will bring man to extinction. Feel free to be a part of the grandiose self-fulfilling prophecy that is human apathy, but even the most cynical of people should care at least a small bit about observing the untouched misery of man's genesis for the purpose of learning about ourselves.
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>>1994196
humans as a species want to preserve animal life and the environment because we value it; hence the existence of this board. Too complicated for you?
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>>1994196
You lack empathy, therefore I do not consider you a complete human being.
FUCK OFF, YOU FUCKING CUNT
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>>1994956
People on /out/ are even crazier.
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He makes me laugh when I remember how he pretended to get shot.
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>>1994196
>And most of it not by our hands.

the difference being this situation is entirely and completely by our hands . theres nothing natural about this.
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He's a dildo and I hope his stupid boats gets Rainbow Warrior'd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpJtqvvmjY
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>>1994187
>What're people's problem with Capt. Paul Watson?
He's a bloody nonce that's why
Thread posts: 35
Thread images: 5


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