This is what a friend told me when I asked him why men don't

No, he replied to your legitimate question with a total non-sequiter amounting to a dismissal.

Conclusion: your friend is full of shit

>>18515768

>No, he replied to your legitimate question with a total non-sequiter amounting to a dismissal.

Can you explain that sentence. Lol. English isn't my first language.

>>18515769
Non-sequiter means what he said does not follow. Meaning, his response to your question has nothing to do with what you said. You asked "who decides worth?" and he answers "men and women are different."

Not only did he not answer your question, he then dismissed it by insinuating you are not smart or worthy enough to discuss or have an opinion on the topic

>>18515784

Ok, is his reasoning sound though? Men and women are emotionally and mentally different which is why women need constant validation and men don't? Or is this because society expects it to and nobody bats an eyelid.

I think I'm pretty stupid.

>>18515788
No. Needing validation from other people to maintain your own sense of worth has a lot to do with how you were raised as a child and what kind of psychological issues you've developed based on that. It isn't a male or female specific thing

But I mean yeah he is right in the fact that men and women are different. But he might as well have said water is wet.

>>18515800

So, why don't men need validation though? A lot of them go through mental disorders etc with a lot of more frequency than women?

Can you explain more on how it depends on how you were raised. Are women raised to seek validation? I don't see it.

>>18515765
He's on the right track. Men check compliments against their own assessment of themselves, and we typically value things we've worked for more than things we were born with (looks). This may not be unique to men, but men are probably less likely to respond politely if we detect insincerity.

>>18515814
Ok. But is it because men are mentally different or is it because they were raised that way and society expects them to? Why wouldn't a man love to be complimented on his looks.

>>18515806
>So, why don't men need validation though?
I'm saying this premise is wrong. Some people need a lot of validation from others and some don't. It isn't something specific to men or women. Some people develop insecurity from either being bullied or neglected as children and need validation from others whereas someone who was raised in a very supportive environment won't. If you don't think men need validation take a look at all the sad sacks around here whining that women won't give them the time of day.

>>18515765
Everyone has their own thing regarding their sense of self-worth. It isn't something you consciously choose, but it is different for everyone. That said, gender roles do tend to give a sense of fulfillment for each gender, at least when painting with a broad brush. There are tons of exceptions to that rule, and I'm not advocating enforcement of gender roles, but its been enforced by society for so long that a mere 50 years won't fully undo the natural selection that's taken place over millions of years.

>>18515824
>>18515820
How do I reply to my friend. I think he triggered me with the "foolish" sentence. English isn't my first language so I have a hard time keeping up. Lol

>>18515833
He just says he knows something you don't and doesn't even say what it is. Ask him what the actual proven differences are and make him connect them to real world situations. You could also challenge him to prove that biological outliers should be forced to act a certain way.

>>18515833
Dont. You don't need to reply, you don't need to talk. Sometimes all you need to do is listen. Your friend didn't answer your initial question, but he is right about you being nowhere close to understanding just yet. You should meditate on his words instead of trying to win the argument.

>>18515833
Presuming you're a young man. I don't say this to belittle you, but as advice: learn to control your emotions, and don't hand over that control to people who don't deserve it.

>>18515765
Also could using "you're foolish and unworthy" to dissuade someone from arguing be an ad hominim fallacy?

>>18515840
>>18515839

I got triggered too much though. hence, my post here. I am physically angry right now. I thought of calling him some insults but don't want to stoop so low. How do I control my anger :S

>>18515833
I would make him actually answer your question about "Why should my sense of worth come from what YOU say?" Your question was actually good


Because from his response it seems like he got flustered because he has no answer for it. He's trying to change the subject on you, calling you foolish was just him trying to act like he knows what he's talking about without having to actually debate it

>>18515765
Basically he's internalized the fact that men are basically supposed to be slaves in our society. You're supposed to do all the work for everyone else, and then not even expect any reward or praise, and don't even be proud of yourself. Just do the work and then go back to being a stoic robot.

No doubt he's completely pussywhipped and will do anything a woman tells him without question or hesitation.

>>18515847
By realizing that very few people are worth caring about, and even fewer have an opinion worth caring about.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of the population is even dumber than that.

>>18515852
Can you expand more?

>>18515849
Alright thanks.

>>18515856
I get triggered too easily though. I never let my steam off but it keeps me up at night. :S

Well, that's essentially why I don't like compliments, and I'm a woman. So maybe he's describing a certain personality, rather than a gender.
Also, his reply at the end was rude and dismissive. Not a great friend.

No, he's wrong. His explanation hinted at something real, but it's quite inaccurate.

Your values define your sense of worth. Your values are the things you deem important and your sense of worth is defined by how well you report to your values. For instance, if you think that being popular is important and you are popular your sense of worth will be high. If you think being popular is important and you aren't popular your sens of worth will be low.

While there may be biological differences that affect your values to some extent the biggest factor that determines it is society. Your parents tell you what's important, your friends tell you what's important, movies, news, books, teachers, etc. tell you what's important. Ultimately you're the one who decides what's important, but you usually do so at a subconscious level so you're influenced by all these things. A lot.

In the western society most men and women have quite similar values. Be popular, be wealthy, be successful, be appreciated and so on (all shitty values, might I add). But, of course there are differences. Some individuals grow up with different values (nationalism, tolerance etc.). When it comes to sexes the main difference is that women are taught to be objects of sex (this is what feminism is so pissed about) and men are taught to be objects of success. While girls are taught that they have to be pretty and submissive men are taught to be self sacrificing, hard working, disposable and stoic. In a way all of this is to please the opposite sex, but in different ways. Still, in the last decades the roles have been shifted quite a bit (at least in the western society). Now it's more much important for boys to be "pretty" and for women to be successful than it was 100 years ago.

(cont)

>>18516537
Now to actually answer your question. A reason why some people would be less "sensitive" to compliments is because their values are purely internal. As in, for them it doesn't matter their external situation (wealth, health, looks etc) or how other people feel, think and act towards them, what matters is only how they themselves feel about their own person. This will only work for a very few values, values that most people don't base their life around. For instance popularity will always be an external value, because it's determined solely by how much others like you. An internal value would be something like honesty. But this isn't the reason why men don't like compliments, because most of us have external values too. As a whole we try to please and be accepted as much as women, if not more, it's just in a different way.

In fact men do like compliments as much as women. Maybe the compliments we like most are a little different than the compliments women prefer, but we do like them. Many men act like they don't though. This is because of the whole stoicism thing. We're taught that it's unmanly to be affected by this kind of thing, even if it's positively. We're taught that we shouldn't care about what others think about us (while, ironically being taught to build our lives around what others think about us). So yeah, it's just a sham, most men like compliments as much as you do, they just pretend they don't. There are a few individuals here and there who really couldn't care less about compliments, but they're exceptions.

>>18515765
>Was he in the right?
In a way. It's not like men consciously decided not to like compliments. You might as well ask why people prefer this or that color, or like different food. They don't really know.

depends what im being complimented on
hate it when im complimented for shit I had no part in
do enjoy a nod or something when I accomplish something myself, though a full ''OMG YOU'RE AMAZING'' and shit like that would be something I hate

>>18515819
Everyone wants to be complimented on their looks.

>>18517679
He said it is unmanly

>>18516397
>Well, that's essentially why I don't like compliments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8ShAosqzI

>>18515819
everyone likes being complimented, but looks is the last thing that I want to be complimented on, as it isnt something I earned, it was given to me, if we're talking about the face
if we're talking body, seeing as i've been lifting for years and not satisfied with how I look I generally assume that it isnt an actual compliment but sarcasm which points out to me that im nowhere near where I'd want to be

>>18517683
Well that makes no sense by default, right? Because manliness is subjective. Pick one george michael or iron shiek

>>18517683
It's unmanly to expect compliments, as in, if you go out with friends and the whole night no one gives you a compliment on your appearance, and you're upset, you might as well be a woman.

>>18517721
But why shouldn't they. What if a guy likes compliments on his appearance. Why is it unmanly

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Read Ludwig Wittgenstein and Marcus Aurelius.

>>18517735
It's actually stupid to compliment people when they don't really TRULY deserve it and that's how you avoid this.

In an electrician and I had a boss that I'd worked with for 5 years.
And in those 5 years I heard the words "good job" maybe twice.
And that's fine because I don't need to hear it because I know I do good work.
I know what looks good and I know what a good speed is. Because I know these things, I don't need an outside source to tell me I've done a good job.
And I know I didn't do a bad job because he would be quick to tell me "that looks like shit do it again"

>>18517742
Strict boss. They're sad. Do something randomly nice for them because they're clearly desperate for it. YEARS we're talking about. Also explore other options.

>>18517735
because appearance isnt earned. you can polish a turd all you want, but it will never be the same as a good looking face
its a congratulation for something that you never had any part in

>>18515765
JFC asking 4chan this. Sometimes compliments are cool and Id accept them. Specially when doing hard work and your boss comes up and says youre doing a great job.

Tbph: 75% of the compliments I get I dont really feeeel anything yaknowutimsayn.

Idk but ur friend sounds like an autist robot found on 4chan.

>>18515819
A woman derives more social worth from her looks than a man. But still, idk why men are less open to compliments. I mean women compliment each other all the time, maybe they do it to socialize. As a man you compliment another man to show admiration, but it gets too much with compliments fast and showing admiration like "wow your hair is so nice, how did you do it" to another man sounds faggy.

He's right.
Men have to provide, to be successful, strong, persevere despite life knocking you down because you are expected to be "the man"
We can't afford to pretend to not care about money and all the shit you women pretend you don't care about while unironically searching for successful providers
If I had a dime for every teen girl who goes on about how much she doesn't care about money
>Women and children can be careless. But not men.

>>18517813
Looks like you've never seen a teen girl in your life. Girls that age don't care about money. They are too busy fawning over the hot guys. Maybe you should step outside of your basement for oncr

>>18517842
Moron! Mon4y is everything. If not more than ever.

>>18517842
>Girls that age don't care about money
Exactly what I said you complete retard
Useless beta NEET

>>18517852
Lol. Looks like I triggered an incel. Don't worry there are women out there who'll care about what is in your heart XDDD

>>18517851
Dont shoot this man down you poorfag lose masters tonpas

>>18517859
I am in favor of men seeking success, only idiots delude themselves by appeasing women in agreeing about how they don't care about money or success. But keep shitposting, josh

>>18517901
They do care. But not much as much as reddit and 4chan over exaggerates it.

>>18515784
>>18515768

lern how to spell sequitur you sperg

Speak for yourself, cunt, not all of us are stammering "modest" betas who can't handle a compliment.

>>18515765
I tend to internally dismiss most compliments just because I either don't care what the person thinks of me or I think they're just saying it to say it. I do take genuine compliments.

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>>18515765

Firstly, the world will make much more sense when you stop talking about men and women like they're a hive mind. Men and woman are all inherently different, inherently flawed creatures with their own unique set of hangs ups and emotional misgivings. Generalizing a few billion people in order to fit your preconceived metric of what people are supposed to be has been and always will be a logically disingenuous way to look at the world. Judging a person based on their individual characteristics instead of the anecdotal judgements you've developed about people with their sex, gender, race etc., has been and always will be the smartest, maturest way to look at the world.

Secondly, overall, he is correct. Understanding the minutia of life and what it means to be a fulfilled person, man or woman, takes time and perspective. Time and perspective are two things that young kids have very little of. They have these sweeping ideas and generalities of what men are and what women are whilst having, relatively, no experience. They have no point of reference to compare new information to and, now, thanks to the internet they can participate in echo chambers of likeminded children who are vehemently opposed to any and all ideas that contradict the conclusions they've come to.

An uncomfortable part about adulthood is constantly having to humble yourself to the things you thought you knew but actually didn't. Appearing totally foolish is something you'll encounter a lot in your adult life. "You're too young to understand" isn't a good reason not to explain something to someone but it is a concept you should keep in mind and be ready to accept. Far too few people in this world still practice humility, OP. If you really want to set yourself apart be open to the possibility that you're wrong. Constantly question your beliefs. Adolescence isn't the right time to set your viewpoints in stone.

If you're under the age of 30 than yes, you have a long way to go in your learning.

>>18518415
Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm 23 so I am not sure if I'm still young. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on what he said was true. I'm not entirely convinced since I believe most people act a particular way because society expects them too but deep down they love being complemented.

>>18515765
I agree with others, your friend just used red herring and you didn't catch it.
The whole getting stuff done is vague at best.

You should persue your own interests while being functioning member of society. Being dependent on judgement from others leads only to trouble, since everyone has their own set of interests and biases.
Only thing that matters is to live and pass on your genome and help your group. Working in a group or society, meaning being functioning and moral, helps you and others to live more secured and fullfiling lives.

>>18516541
I liked your explanation.

I'm a man though, and I don't like being complimented. Makes me uncomfortable. Feels like they're trying to pull something

>>18518499
I understand. Thanks

>>18518415
What's the point in education if you're always wrong anyway?

>>18518551
Education ostensibly teaches people how to approach and solve problems effectively.

>>18518415
Damn son, I have no idea what you are saying but I like it. You seem wise or atleast give the illusion of being wise.

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>>18518438

>I was wondering if you could elaborate more on what he said was true.

I think his general idea is correct but he could of been a little more detailed. "Getting stuff done" shouldn't be for the benefit of other people, but yourself. Providing for your family, being an empathetic person, accomplishing tasks and meeting goals, i.e, "getting stuff done" is a great way to develop a sense of worth. At some point in a man's life though, he has to decide whether or not the things he strives are to prove to other people what a great man he is or prove to himself. This is the struggle all men endure as they grow older.

>I'm not entirely convinced since I believe most people act a particular way because society expects them too but deep down they love being complemented.

I think you're generalizing a little too much. Societal pressure is a factor, yes, but you're a little too young to really have relationships with anyone who has been able to maturely navigate it. Adolescents are, most notably, insecure. They don't know who they are and what they want and the easiest way to develop themselves is to do what they think people in their position are supposed to do. Understand that identity is a treacherous thing. People have a hard time finding one and even when they do its an even harder thing to keep, thus the reason people change so drastically from their early 20's to their older 30's.

You're right, people love to be complimented, yes. Everyone wants validation. Everyone wants to know they're loved and valued but that isn't a negative thing, anon. Wanting to be loved and accepted by our peers doesn't make us lesser people. You have to keep that in perspective. You have to realize that even the stupidest, shallowest people you've ever met aren't evil, they're just lost. You have to realize that in the pursuit of doing the right thing we often fuck up.

People are very complicated and you're just a tad too young to realize exactly how complicated, is all.

>>18518551

Its not simply education, its being human. Learning comes in stages, anon, especially when its information that isn't tangible, objective data.

Finding out you're wrong doesn't have to be a bad experience. The entire world of scientific process is based on the sole tenant of being wrong. Learning new things to replace the old is what life is. Becoming a better person through knowledge should be an exciting experience, anon, not a disappointing one. Focus more on the good you can do with the knowledge you have now, not the good you could of done with the knowledge you didn't.

>>18518567
Wouldn't avoiding or eliminating problems be more beneficial/ positive? It just having an effect doesn't help.

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>>18515847
>>18515839
>>18515824

Am i still on 4chan?...
What is this?
>Triggers
>Calm hippie advices
>REAL ARGUMENTS

FUCK THAT!
OP, Tell your friend he is stupid cunt that only repeats his half-baked wisdom he got somewhere on his cancerous facebook group, while at it tell him he should consider suicide and that your duty AS A MAN, is to ensure the continuation of WHITE RACE! And that you only need validation from GOD, OUR LORD HIMSELF!!

BE ALPHA ONCE IN YOUR LIFE FOR FUCKS SAKE! DEUS VULT!

>>18518595
How could anyone have any confidence in what they say or the work they do if at any age, there's more possibility that they're wrong than right?

Being wrong isn't bad; people make it bad. It's fine to be wrong on a small scale, like this, but once you become an adult, you have to watch every error you make, least you be branded a failure. People seem to be proactive against others using their knowledge for good; it's some sort of threat to their current well being or competition.

Simple things like grading in school is based on how "right" older people see their students assignments. If it doesn't fit the current overall narrative, it's "wrong" even if it's right in every bit of detail encased.

>>18518637
What is this

>>18518639

>How could anyone have any confidence in what they say or the work they do if at any age, there's more possibility that they're wrong than right?


I think you're misunderstanding me.

Firstly, you're talking a lot about what "people" seem to think and what "people" will brand you and thats not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about how other people will view the progress of your life and the knowledge you apply to it, I'm talking about you. You can never control what other people feel or think about you. You can only control the way you feel about yourself. I couldn't give less of a shit if someone finds the application of my knowledge a threat or a competition. Becoming older also comes with a developed ability to hurdle the misplaced emotions of other people for the benefit of your own. At the end of the day you have to look in the mirror and be happy with yourself, not how happy you've made other people. Failing to satisfy other people's ideas of right and wrong isn't the point of what I'm saying here nor is it pertinent. I don't care about that.

Secondly, we're not talking about objective knowledge. I'm not talking about math or science or something that can be measured and analyzed on any kind of physical metric. We're talking about life. Knowledge about your life and your decisions and the path you're on. Not knowing if you're doing the right thing is going to be a struggle for you until the day you die but being a thoughtful adult is learning how to have confidence with who you are and what you know but also have the humility to admit when you were wrong.

Being a good person and living a good life is not never being wrong, its about being able to admit to and learn from your mistakes.

>>18515765
I think the premise is faulty. Most people, male or female appreciate sincere compliments. Guys may not react all gushy-like but they appreciate them just the same.

>>18518977
Thats what I thought. Yeah.

>>18516541
yeah idk, I think women get more compliments more often and are taught to accept them. Guys aren't complimented at all really once you're out of school and you aren't cute anymore, and we aren't taught to just accept compliments based off our looks and as a result we tend to like them less. Compliments make me wary and distrustful, I hate when people compliment me especially on shit I barely had a hand in.