I want to trust people because that's the only thing I can

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I'm kinda like you OP.

I lie to people in meeting and it makes that relationship harder to maintain since the truth is always been kept a secret. The person never really learns the real you, only your lies. And when they get closer, they will see your lies and eventually you would have to distance yourself.

Lone wolf is good at times. Some people are incapable of being alone. Striking a balance is hard but I personally thrive on 1-on-1 conversations. If I kept lying to a minimum I can actually open up (and maybe too much) and I usually get them to open up too.

>>17915455
OP here,
I was like that some years ago. I've always lied a lot, but not about things that matter. I never lie to hurt people, but rather to amuse myself (when i was a kid) or to protect myself (now).

Sadly, I'm at a point where I no longer know who I am.
I'm not sure but I guess it's some kind of an "ego death". As a result, I don't even know what to say about myself, if I didn't lie. Sounds pretty fucked up now that I write it down..

>>17915480

>Ego death

I think you just need basic talking points about yourself. Even make a gimmick or a a script for certain questions. I understand. When you lie to create many different selves, you find it hard to find your true self. Short answer is: you can indenting yourself easily with physical and behavioural habits. You can even say that your a liar to a new friend as a refreshing change.

Its hard for me too. I for example told everyone in my class that I work for a porn company as a call-centre agent. It was a joke that became too real. I realized people don't really remember as much about me and I find it hard not to slip and say I'm a deadbeat with no job.

My solution:

I find Journalling helps me. After commiting a huge lie or after a huge or even tiny event, analyzing what I said, what I felt, what the problem was (if any) and how to solve the problem if it comes again, has helped me form a solid identity.

The long answer to the whole ego death thing is no, theres nothing intrinsic about you, only what society labels you and what you label yourself. Which can be good or bad. We can label ourselves completely false labels and even live up to it.

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>>17915546
Wow, thank you, truly.
It's very rare for me to find someone who seems to really understand where I'm at. Based on your replies, it seems we're very alike.
What's even more, you're able to give sound advice. Thank you.

I'll do my best to follow your advice. Even though it's very unlike me to do so. I guess that's the only way to grow, for better or worse.

>>17915441
Expect the best, prepare for the worst. Might be a platitude but works surprisingly well for most situations.

People will always act in THEIR best interest, the only variation is that they sometimes don't know what it might be. Generally this also means that betrayal of trust isn't personal or done to spite you but an act in their interest.

Once you consider that and include it in their actions everything becomes pretty simple. There is simply no reason not to trust people. Just FULLY trusting them is a bad idea.

Also when it comes to opening up, there are literally no downsides if you do it in a situation with uhh, limited audience. Say you're a faggot, coming out at backwards thinking workplace is a bad idea with more potential downsides than upsides. Coming out to someone you consider a friend, only has upside, since you will know where you stand and don't waste time with a person who hates you.

>Sadly, I'm at a point where I no longer know who I am.
Another simple one: You are what you do. It's your actions and not intentions or even reasons for intentions that really count.

>>17915615
Im glad I was able to help you. I helped myself along the way through introspection. It's better for us because we know there is a problem to be solved and there's room for improvement. If we can always improve we will attain our best selves.

If I may impart something to you, completely undogmatic or in any way proselytizing. I urge you to read up on Basic Buddhist teachings just as a guiding compass for one's actions and thoughts. Five Precepts and Dependent Origination in particular.

Good luck Anon

>>17915668
Fuck, you're basically saying things I've spent ages thinking about, out loud.

>expect the best, prepare for the worst
I've lived by that rule (verbatim) for a long time. The problem is that, since my focus is on preparing for the worst, I can't get comfortable around people. I always have my guard up, so that _I just see people from the perspective of risks/benefits, as opposed to feelings._
I assume that's just a part of growing up, but I'd give anything in the world to get back to that time where I could simply like someone, instead of wanting something from them while shielding myself.

>just FULLY trusting them is a bad idea
I know, but how do I trust someone enough to build a connection with them, without being wide open for a knife in the back? On an emotional level I feel that whenever I guard myself even a little bit, it means that I can't trust a person (i.e. my own actions prevent me from connecting with them), but logically it shouldn't be like that. People trust other people all the time, without having autism-level honesty. I've forgotten how to do that.

>It's your actions and not [...]
Holy shit, yes! I've thought about that for the longest time, but ONLY APPLYING THAT TO OTHERS. For some reason I didn't understand that applies to me too. Wow, I feel retarded.
Thank you!

>>17915709
I'll check it out! Thank you!

>>17915744
>I assume that's just a part of growing up
Sounds like it. The next step is keeping the "preparation" part deeper and not letting it affect you from the start. Now how exactly one gets there, I am not quite sure. Since we're social animals, the risk of getting fucked over is bound to be overshadowed by the need for socializing. In the end having friends or even people to hang with who MIGHT betray your trust is still better than having none, just like it's better to have a shitty car that might die on you at any time instead of no car at all.

>I've forgotten how to do that.
Well, it's about finding the right balance, or to use the knife analogy, wearing a stab resistant vest. As you said, it's pretty normal for people to trust without revealing too much. Realizing that it's more logical is certainly a step in the right direction. Reminding myself of the "What's really the worst thing that could happen?" and even picturing out the scenario helped.

>For some reason I didn't understand that applies to me too.
It's pretty human, tons of misunderstandings and conflicts happen because we judge others on their actions and ourselves on our intentions.

Glad I could contribute.

You need to commit to making decisions, eating the consequences, and learning over time. You're avoiding making a decision to trust someone because that could lead to pain, but that pain is literally the only way you can develop better judgement and eventually be hurt less often and less intensely. Your only other alternative is to never trust anyone, which you've stated isn't something you can deal with. That leaves only one thing to do.

Do some 'starter' relationships. Don't try to make friends with or date people who impress you, as shitty as that sounds. Form relationships with people you think you could stand to lose in the future. Or rather, pick someone whose betrayal would hurt the least.

Another tool is to consider how you'll feel when you're seventy years old and dying. How ridiculous your older self will remember this as being, not because you had bad judgement, but because you took your problems so fucking seriously. People are shot, stabbed, and bombed every day.

>>17915668
>People will always act in THEIR best interest

This is seriously, seriously narrow minded. People act according to their value systems, with variations occurring according to their current circumstances. People do sacrifice themselves for others, sometimes literally. When they see value in it.

>>17915826
Continued

>>17915744
>Just FULLY trusting them is a bad idea.

I talked about trusting people for the sake of simplicity in my first post, but I don't trust, I assess and predict. Nobody is infallible, so the word 'trust' doesn't even function for me, as it implies faith. Unjustifiable belief. I fully acknowledge that certain people are going to completely fail me in certain situations. This does not, however, prevent me from considering more than 80% of them as being fundamentally decent people worth knowing. I know a guy who makes shitty decisions when it comes to his girlfriend and I'd never take advice about relationships with women from him, but it doesn't change the fact that his net impact on the world is positive, he's going to be happy in life, and neither of those things are likely to change. I'm comfortable with the people I socialize with and I 'trust' them, so to speak. I'm comfortable with their fundamental decency. I hope this perspective will help you find your own working perspective.

>>17915814
>The next step is [...]
Nice, I hadn't put it into words yet, where I should progress there. Seems you've got the right idea.

>having friends who MIGHT betray your trust is better than having none
This is something that I ON SOME LEVEL agree with, but because of my past experiences that have shaped me emotionally, I can no longer agree with, based on logic.
Having spent the last 3 - 4 years depressed, abusing drugs, alone, etc. in exchange for the ~3 months of happiness I had before, I just can't see how it's worth the risk.
But I do realize that one of my goals would be to get to the point where I agree with what you said.

>what's the worst thing that could happen
Those are literally verbatim the exact words I said to myself out loud about 3 years ago, before I went to see my brother. I asked him to promise me something, he did, and then a bit later he broke his promise. That's what fucked me up. I guess I didn't see that this was the worst possible outcome.

>>17915826
>that pain is literally the only way you can eventually be hurt less often and less intensely
Damn, I guess you're right. It would seem logical that since this was basically the first time my trust was broken (this intensely) I'm unable to react to in a smart way. Thank you for your advice.

>>17915881
>I hope this perspective will help you find your own working perspective.
It will help. Thank you.

I'm saving all the replies in this thread, and I'll spend as long as it takes to learn from your advice.

>>17915881
Continued.

>>17915668
>You are what you do.
Pretty much. Your mind is you, and it does exist, but it's molded by what you do.

>>17915744
>On an emotional level I feel that whenever I guard myself even a little bit, it means that I can't trust a person
This is something I'd like you to look at through the lens of your seventy year old self. How are you defining friendship? Because it seems like your standard for a friend is way, way too high. A friend isn't someone you'd shed blood for, that's family. Not to say friends don't become family, but you need to allow for varying degrees of closeness. Would your seventy year old self think you were being too picky about your definition of friendship? Taking it too seriously?

Above all I want you to consider what I first said. Listen to your inner voices for a while and then make a decision about what you're going to do. When the consequences of that decision arrive, good or bad, learn from them. And know that you can and will improve your judgement. I hope this helped and didn't sound too fucking pedantic.

>>17915441
ur conceited and take ur good friends for granted bc ur better than them

ALL THE CONTINUES

>>17915886
>Having spent the last 3 - 4 years depressed, abusing drugs, alone, etc. in exchange for the ~3 months of happiness I had before, I just can't see how it's worth the risk.
It sounds like you ante'd way, way more into the relationship than your brother did. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just trying to point out that this seems like all-or-nothing risk taking, and that would seem to be your real problem. People are either your family or they're nothing to you, and you need intermediate relationships where you apportion intermediate levels of trust to them, because that's what they've earned.

>Those are literally verbatim the exact words I said to myself out loud about 3 years ago, before I went to see my brother.
Yeah, I don't urge the usage of that technique because it can backfire pretty hard. Imagination is limited and reality is limitless. What I do urge you to do is listen HARD to yourself, make a decision, and help the impulses you think are right to overpower the wrong ones. You can't brute force it so much as give it a push and a pull, but it works, especially with consistent effort.

>It would seem logical that since this was basically the first time my trust was broken (this intensely) I'm unable to react to in a smart way.
Been there. System shock is a bitch, lol.

>>17915915
>it seems like your standard for a friend is way, way too high.
You're definitely right about that. I've been trying to lower my standards, but I guess like >>17915922 said, I'm too narcissistic(?). I end up thinking "why should I settle for a person who I can't fully trust". Seems I'm socially retarded after all.

>a friend isn't someone you'd shed blood for, that's family
I guess that's how I thought before. Until my family broke my trust.
Maybe on some level I'm compensating for the lack of trust I have, and have thus set my standards way too high, so that it wouldn't even be possible to find a person (basically someone who was like a brother to me) that would fit my needs.

>I hope this helped and didn't sound too fucking pedantic
It definitely helped, once again.

>>17915922
I guess there's a bit of truth in there.

>>17915938
>People are either your family or they're nothing to you
You're absolutely right. That's exactly how it's been for me for way too long.

I don't know how to tell you how much I appreciate your advice.
I now have so much to think about, and to try and build upon. It'll definitely take me a while to process all this info and to funnel it to my actions. But I'll definitely try.

>>17915965
>Until my family broke my trust.
That's not family. This is why I have trouble communicating with others sometimes, I have different definitions. Family is someone who'll put themselves in danger for you. Your biological brother is only that, biologically your brother. But not in any meaningful, functional sense. My grandparents were never my grandparents, they told my aunt that if she'd beaten her son more he wouldn't have been dyslexic. I wrote them off after that.

>Maybe on some level I'm compensating for the lack of trust I have
I've been where you are, tell me if this sounds familiar (Be skeptical about it though, confirmation bias sucks): I want to have a total connection, even deeper than what I had before, because I feel like the only thing that'll heal this wound is a relationship that's even stronger than what I thought I had.

>I guess there's a bit of truth in there.
Nah, man. There's nothing indicating that whatsoever. You're getting down on yourself and I don't think it's reasonable. The problem is
>People are either your family or they're nothing to you
which isn't conceited, it's a matter of wanting too much from relationships that haven't existed for the requisite length of time. You need events and history to back up your trust.

>>17916013
>That's not family
I'm now at a point where I'm inclined to agree with you.

>I want to have a total connection, even deeper than what I had before, because I feel like the only thing that'll heal this wound is a relationship that's even stronger than what I thought I had.
It doesn't sound familiar, in the sense that I haven't though about it that way (yet).
I've only just recently gotten to the point where I can admit that I believe I need someone in my life, so that I can achieve happiness.
I've always felt comfortable being alone. I don't mind it, EXCEPT that I can't find happiness alone. And the only reason I so adamantly try to achieve happiness, is because I got to experience what it felt like for the first time.
I used to be content. Not happy, not sad, but just stable and neutral. But ever since I felt what months of happiness was like, I've been depressed because I haven't felt like that again.

And only in the last 3 hours, I've thought that maybe the fact that I cut ties with my brother has affected me in a way that I try to fill that emotional void with other people. It would seem logical, especially taking into account how weird my communication with other people has been lately. But if that's the case, it has 100% been a subliminal effort, not a conscious one.

The reason I was happy 3 years ago, was because I had someone in my life who made me happy. Towards the end of our ~3 month.. thing.., I asked my brother to promise me that he wouldn't ruin it for me. (because I saw the risk). That's the promise he broke.
I've analyzed my behavior from the last few years from the perspective of me losing the person who made me happy, and in addition, losing my ability to trust people.

So far, I see my behavior being a result of me trying to find another person that could lead me to happiness, and not so much a way to compensate for not having a brother in my life. But I'm willing to admit that I don't know "me" anymore. I'm open for advice.

>>17915441
That's the gayest image I've ever seen.


Anyways, just don't be a tard. You can't trust everyone but you need to open to some people.

>>17916087
>So far, I see my behavior being a result of me trying to find another person that could lead me to happiness, and not so much a way to compensate for not having a brother in my life.
That's reasonable, dude. If you have further questions I can try to help with them, but that's all the advice I can think of with what you've given me.

I think I have something to work with, now. And I'm not sure if I could process more info right now.

Thank you immensely and best wishes, truly from the bottom of my heart.

>>17915922
Ha, that sounds exactly like my former friend.