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I just realized that when it comes to romantic partners, I like

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I just realized that when it comes to romantic partners, I like that they see me for what I am. I feel a ton of emotions toward the girl, and I get super emotional as a consequence.

But I feel like this isn't a good thing. Do I do the right thing, to show my emotions right off the bat? I feel like it indeed makes me look less masculine.

I'd also appreciate the feminine point of view.
>>
>>17901395
Don't be vulnerable. Don't ever be fucking vulnerable. Be a closed off, emotionally constipated neanderthal who communicates in grunts and growls before you be vulnerable.

The worst advice- the worst fucking thing feminism and single mothers and sesame street and whatever the hell else brought us into this mess -is be vulnerable. No woman wants a vulnerable man.

Be a rock. Be unbreakable, be focused, have a life outside of whatever unbearable giggling summer child you're dicking. If you want to vent about how broken inside you are, tell your mother. She already knows.
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>>17902441
Don't even tell your mother. Talk to your dog or write in a journal. My mom was my confidant until she mocked me when I was sharing my joy with having had a woman act really attracted to me. All women hate weakness. No woman cares about your feelings..Maybe your well-being but not your feelings.
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>>17902441
>>17902481
Um, isn't this a sure way to get both mental illnesses and physical ones as well? Because pent up emotions do cause you issues. Awful anger management, depression, among others, and their respective physical consequences, high blood pressure, etc.
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>>17902441
>>17902481
>>17902687
This is why it's important to have close male friends. Nobody wants to see you cry, but you can get drunk and vent about shit that's bothering you as long as you're paying for the drinks
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>>17902702
>Nobody wants to see you cry
Wait, what? I mean I do have male friends, although sadly they're too far away from here because I moved.

But what in trying to say is, what's the point of having a girlfriend if in the long run we will be living together? I may be able to put a mask on, but not in my house or my intimacy. That would be extremely distressing. I'd rather live alone or with my parents!
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>>17902441
i'm a girl and maybe I'm just in the minority but I disagree with everything this guy says

why be in a relationship with someone "emotionally closed off"? it makes no sense
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>>17902778
Have you actually been together with a guy who cried in front of you? Did you still felt like having sex with him and desired him the same way? You say it's ok but the perception the woman have of you changes, it's inevitable.
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>>17901395
>Do I do the right thing, to show my emotions right off the bat?

wtf ?

where do these "emotions" come from ?

if you don't even know the girl all you are talking about is your physical lust
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>>17902778
I also feel like he's wrong, going to an extreme.

But, tell me, how much vulnerability is too much? Getting into a relationship makes me want to be vulnerable right off the bat
I don't know if I'm doing it right, or if it's good. I don't want to wear masks, either.

>>17902795
From my heart? I'm not talking about sex. I may lust over someone but that's a different matter. When I get into a relationship I want to feel comfortable. I feel a rush of emotions (attachment, affection, excitement, etc) and it's super difficult to keep them in check.
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>>17902791
I'm with an emotional guy right now, he doesn't cry but he will express his feelings to me. He will tell me his insecurities, even if it's difficult. The fact that he's willing to do this in a relationship I think is invaluable. Most guys have this attitude like what non was describing, and that just doesn't work for me. What attracted me to him was his vulnerability. I think he's cute and I want to take care of him, that's how I feel about him. If he ever cried in front of me I would be a little disturbed just because, that's really unlike him but, that in and of itself wouldn't bother me.

>>17902810
It's ok to keep your feelings in check if you feel like it's too much too soon but don't become a closed off husk either. Curb your enthusiasm, as they say. I think it kind of builds sexual & romantic tension if you do it like that too.
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>>17902835
>I want to take care of him, that's how I feel about him

Maybe you're an exception, but from my experience women are mostly the other way around, they want an emotional anchor to take care of them, and this is what gets them off.
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>>17902853
Not that there's any problem with that, of course.
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>>17902853
I think maybe I am too. Him telling me "I need you" gets me off.
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>>17902857
In what ways does he need you? Is he younger?
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>>17902862
Just a couple years younger. I think it's sort of what you described like, he seems to have a thing for wanting to feel like someone else is in control and taking care of him so he doesn't have to worry
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>>17901395
>Do I do the right thing, to show my emotions right off the bat?

no. most girls think you're desperate, moving too fast and needy. trust me. i get feelings for the girls i date pretty much straight away, and i want to do romantic shit but the girls normally find it weird. we're hopeless romantics, people like us. from my experience women like the idea of romance but dont like the actual thing unless they are actually in love with you/have feelings for you. women even find guys buying them flowers early on to be strange.

its because now a days women when you're dating a girl, she is basically interviewing you to see if you are right for her, if you do romantic shit its like you're treating it as a full fledged relationship so they feel uncomfortable. so yeah, dont show your emotions right of the bat.
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>>17902895
> when you're dating a girl, she is basically interviewing you to see if you are right for her,
wait are you guys not doing that as well with us or something??
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>>17902926
Uh idk not really like the interview is kinda when you really FIRST meet them, if you like em you hop in the game and take a crack at em under the assumption you are right for each other.
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OP here.

>>17902835
>if you feel like it's too much too soon
That's the difficult part to gauge. How do I tell that? Where do I draw the line? I literally have no idea.

>>17902853
>they want an emotional anchor to take care of them
This is off putting. I would be fine with taking care of a girl and supporting her, but only if I get the same in return.

>>17902895
When can I let my emotions loose, then?
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>>17902947
fucking hell that's kinda depressing..
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>>17902884
You sound like a great SO.

>>17902971
You get pussy in return, I guess.
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>>17902926
>wait are you guys not doing that as well with us or something??

to an extent but not really. guys are different. generally if i am going out with a girl, i see it more as me trying to get to know her and giving the relationship a real go than "interviewing her".

the dating world is different for men and women.

>>17902947
pretty much this. its only really the first date i would consider an interview. i think with guys its more of ownership thing. we are looking for a mate. someone who we can fuck and no one else. plus, we generally have lower standards than women. if a girl is fuckable, and we get on her with her, its all that matters. women are waiting around for something they dont even know they want. and women just have to wait around for guys to aproach while we have to put in all the effort so if i a women gives us a chance, we spend more time trying not to fuck it up than thinking about dating another girl. i mean, think about it, we pretty much get ignored by the opposite gender until they decide to give us a chance. we dont want to throw that chance away because we are not in love after the second date.
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>>17902971
>When can I let my emotions loose, then?

when you're actually in a relationship, and its established that you're together.
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>>17902987
Can confirm, we guys usually don't have that many ideal characteristics that a partner has to 'fit in', we just try know and get together with the person in front of us.
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>>17902995
I think that if we had the same interview 'process' as girls do, humanity would die out. It's a balance thing, for women to be allowed to be picky, the men must not be, otherwise it would be too difficult.
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>>17902895
>>17902926
what's that "interview" process about?
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>>17902987
>>17902995
I hear ya, and I understand why shit is the way it is between men and women but that is depressing as fuck man

maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, or the word "interview" is throwing me off or...something, idk
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>>17903002
it's not even picky necessarily, or not overly so anyway

it's...the man I want to be with wanting to be with me versus the man I want to be with wanting to be with someone and that someone just happens to be me

does that make enough sense? not sure how to put it exactly but that's the basic idea behind it
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>>17903007
>but that is depressing as fuck man

you find it depressing because its more difficult for men or because we have lower standards?
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>>17902947
Now that I think about it, if we guys have to put the effort for approaching, it means that we have already decided if we like you or not, and thus getting to know the girl is more like "let's settle if I like her now". From there on it's just the girl interviewing us.

>>17902976
Agreed.

>>17902977
>You get pussy in return, I guess.
I could have pussy without investing so much.

...who am I trying to deceive, I can't without the intimacy.

>>17902991
Ya sure? What about getting like that early in the relationship? I'm a retard.

>>17903006
Asking questions about her and figure if we're a match.

Once I went for a walk with a girl, to get to know her. She was pretty, and seemed interesting, so why not?

Turns out that she not only did not wear deodorant, but she also monopolized the conversation and it was ALL about her. I never talked to her after that again.
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>>17903017
both
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>>17903018
>Asking questions about her and figure if we're a match.
>Once I went for a walk with a girl, to get to know her. She was pretty, and seemed interesting, so why not?
>Turns out that she not only did not wear deodorant, but she also monopolized the conversation and it was ALL about her. I never talked to her after that again.
i meant from the girl's side
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>>17901395
I suggest you take
>>17902441
Advice

Personally, I've been a victim of that idealization. The world is fucking cruel. It is a fucking machine with no hazard signs and no warnings. One wrong move and you may lose a limb or two... Possibly your sanity.... Even your life.

And that's the fucking truth. No matter how civilised we get, we are still fucking animals with instinctual urges to survive. No exceptions.

There is no such thing as nice, or kindness, or care. The world is selfish, twisted, and cruel. Manipulating for gain. Destroying for profit. If you think for even a second that the nice lady that served you today won't be thinking about how much she hates her job and how she has to deal with people like you, then you are a fool.

Sexual attraction goes only so fucking far and can quickly disappear at the drop of a hat. Without sexual attraction there really is nothing. It's nice to be with someone who loves you. It's nice to have someone who cooks for you and gets you presents. But what difference is there between that and a really close friend, or family member? Sexual attraction is the most defining quality that separates friend from lover.

It's tough but you really lose the ability to be sexually attractive when you're a weak and vulnerable man. Women don't know what they want. Women want different things based on their menstrual cycle. Hell, women on birth control is the reason why they say they want a vulnerable man. When pregnant, women find fatherly and feminine affection more attractive than masculine personality traits.

It's all a construct of hormonal women. I suggest you simply do your own thing. Being independent and an individual is far more attractive. Never forget that.
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>>17903018
>Now that I think about it, if we guys have to put the effort for approaching, it means that we have already decided if we like you or not, and thus getting to know the girl is more like "let's settle if I like her now". From there on it's just the girl interviewing us.
if you approach and we're receptive it's because we've already decided if we like you or not and from then on it's a matter of get to know each other more so we can both see if we still like one another once we've gotten to know each other, no??

my head is so full of fuck right now
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>>17903013
>just happens to be me

So is most things in life.
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>>17903020
i suppose guys have lower standards because it is so difficult. women would probs be the same if it was difficult.

>>17903013
as i have kind of said to the other person, its because its harder for men. its like a fat chick, or a fat guy, they may want to go out with a hot person but they settle for someone on the same level as them because its all they are going to get in reality. also, its not that we would go out with literally anyway, we do have to like them, its just that we dont expect them to be absolutely amazing. i have ended it with a fair few women quickly because i knew i wouldent be happy with them.
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>>17903046
Even for an average guy is difficult.
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>>17903028
Your argument is a bit too much for me, both the content and length. So I'm going to take a point and talk from there.

>It's nice to be with someone who loves you. It's nice to have someone who cooks for you and gets you presents. But what difference is there between that and a really close friend, or family member? Sexual attraction is the most defining quality that separates friend from lover.
What's wrong with wanting everything, a really close friend who also happens to be a sexual partner? I mean if sexual attraction is all there is, what's the difference between a FWB and a LTR?

>>17903037
Uh... Wow good point. It's like, we see each other and we already decide if we like each other.

Thing is, the whole approaching thing can be destructive for us. We're taking a gamble and we can never be certain. It hurts, you know?
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>>17903073
>We're taking a gamble and we can never be certain. It hurts, you know?

this. and its awkward as fuck because we know women normally want to be left alone.
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Femanon here. If my boyfriend wasn't vulnerable in front of me we wouldn't have a relationship. There have been times he's literally broken down and cried in my arms and because I see him as a human being and not an asset I have been there for him. Seeing him open up has been some of the most rewarding an proud moments of our relationship and we share a very strong bond. Outside the relationship of course he has a hard manly exterior but I know who he is inside and because of that I can support him in ways that his friends can't. We're both in our early 20s by the way.

But you're not gonna listen to me, you're going to listen to all these hurt and confused guys from 4chan so enjoy your pent up and closed off life OP.
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>>17902778
You're not in the minority. this thread is full of ignorant males giving advice to ignorant males about how they think the female mind works.
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>>17903121
>>17903130
Thank you. It's relieving that, at least, I am able to show who I am.

One of the reasons why I ask is because my ex basically "punished" me, lacking a better word, for being vulnerable and emotional, demanding that I should be more stoic and less emotional. It hurt a lot, and I'm trying to recover.

The other reason why I'm asking is because I'm probably doing it wrong, not in the relationship itself but right before anything happens or possibly too early. I don't know when I am allowed to do so (an anon said when the relationship is established), or how much is too much.

I don't want to live a closed life. That's why I want help.
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>>17903152
You don't need help you just gotta find someone who will like you the way you are. She is out there. Don't get a complex just because you weren't a match with one person.
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>>17903152
Your ex sounds like she's afraid of her own weakness and projecting that on you. To be honest thats not uncommon in women.. but those aren't the women I recommend you date. They need to sort out their own problems.

I have never punished my man for expressing himself. My father did that to me and my siblings(both sister and brothers) and I made sure I will never become like that because I realized how it can cause depression, anxiety, low self esteem to be so suppressed... and giving someone a platform to share their true feelings can empower both of you.

Too early, yes that might be a concern... but eventually you should trust your woman enough to open up to her. If she's not receptive, that's her problem. She is not ready to be in love.

My advice for when you should open up, is the moment you feel you can look in her eyes and trust the woman to appreciate and respect you. If she can't then she's not girlfriend material.

You seem like a good person and deserving of a good woman, I really hope things work out for you. In fact I think if you keep going down the path of being true to yourself you will!
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>>17903152
Sorry for the pessimism at the end of my post by the way... I just hang out on /adv/ too much and get really crushed when I see people telling other people to just close off and live their pain. Because I've been through so much and feel like its tragic that so many people refuse to give real human relationships a chance.
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>>17903121
I wish I'd run into people like this, but the truth is most women are turned off by weakness as per my past experiences. Unless you've already been dating for a long ass time probably not a good idea unfortunately.
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>>17903130
>>17903121

right. so you're saying that if i wrote a poem, and started telling a girl i had feeling for her after a few days, it would be ok?

there is a difference between being sensitive and expressing the feelings you have towards a girl. most girls would find it creepy.
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>>17903187
I'm referring to the number of posters insisting that you should never show weakness and that women are turned off by emotions... everyone has weakness and emotions, and this is obvious, except to the dumbest and most expectant of women. Trying desperately to hide your insecurities makes them more obvious.

And the poem thing could work in the right situation with the right amount of buildup. Nothings impossible anon.
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>>17903185
>Unless you've already been dating for a long ass time probably not a good idea unfortunately.

this. think about it, if i was only dating a women, it would be uncomfortable if she started crying, and expressing her darkest secrets. it obviously shows the person crying is either emotionally unstable or has became way too quickly attached to their partner
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>>17903162
We lasted 3 years and she broke up with me like 4 times, begging for us to go back every single time, even the last one where she straight out demanded for me to be more stoic. We didn't go back because I didn't accept her begging.

Of course I'm still trying to recover. I don't love her but what she said was extremely hurtful, and it's been well over a year since that event. It left me insecure about everything.

>>17903164
>Your ex sounds like she's afraid of her own weakness and projecting that on you. To be honest thats not uncommon in women.. but those aren't the women I recommend you date.
If I recall her attitudes correctly... Yes, that sounds spot on.

Although the first time we broke up it was... My fault, possibly? She had gone alone to a neighboring country, and I insisted on keeping contact with her. She was cold and asked me to not call her. After that it was just a matter of time before she broke up with me, arguing that I was too clingy. We were 6 months together by then.

>because I realized how it can cause depression, anxiety, low self esteem to be so suppressed... and giving someone a platform to share their true feelings can empower both of you.
Yes, I totally agree!

>is the moment you feel you can look in her eyes and trust the woman to appreciate and respect you
I either do that too early (trust too soon) or I push a bit for that to happen soon. Probably because I feel like once I show myself she will reject me. It's scary.

>You seem like a good person and deserving of a good woman, I really hope things work out for you. In fact I think if you keep going down the path of being true to yourself you will!
Thank you so much for the reassurement! It means a lot!

>>17903173
People here just want to vent, not get help, so I understand where you're coming from.

It is crushing to see people telling others to live their pain. But I also can tell when the advice doesn't feel right. And in that moment I also feel like I should ignore it.
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>>17903202
Talk for yourself, I would love it. My paternal instincts would kick off and I would try to find a way to comfort her to the best of my abilities.
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>>17903200
>I'm referring to the number of posters insisting that you should never show weakness and that women are turned off by emotions

fair enough. i think ok to show emotions, just not to the extremes straight away.
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>>17903185
Vulnerability and weakness are not the same thing. If anything, being able to show your vulnerable side takes strength and bravery. Society has it backwards. Which is why deep love is so rare these days.

Its almost like being in love with someone is a nonconformist act... like that book 1984. I'm lucky my man and I share everything.
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>>17903213
you're just a one off though.
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>>17903214
Well I agree with that, it can be off-putting. You should be able to express yourself to a partner without coming off as emotionally dependent, or else it might seem like you need a crutch. Slow and steady wins the race. My advice is don't rush yourself or your partner.
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>>17903046
>we do have to like them, its just that we dont expect them to be absolutely amazing.
I think this is what's tripping me up here maybe. Unsurprising that I don't know what it's like trying to date women but I didn't realize that's what it's like for you guys. If the greentext above is how I'd describe the approach I've always taken with regard to dating, and I also think the man I'm with actually is absolutely amazing, am I delusional about my own expectations or am I just fortunate to have met him? Asking because it seems there could be a chance I'm treating him unfairly somehow or expecting too much from him maybe or...yeah idk wtf I'm even looking for here, just don't wanna be being a dick to him somehow without realizing it.

>>17903073
I hear ya, and I don't like that part of it either. I don't mean to be faulting you guys for anything if that's how I've come across. Pretty sure this is one of those "life ain't fair, toughen up" moments, it's just really done a number on my worldview. He means everything to me and I can't ever be that for him if it could've just as easily been some other girl and yeah...just depressing to think about it like that is all.
>>sorry for derailing the thread so much
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>>17903215
>I'm lucky my man and I share everything.
Is it bad that I have issues with this? Like opening up is a threatening act to my self conservation and that it will backfire somehow. That I will be judged and hurt if I even try... And I end up hiding stuff because I don't feel safe opening up.

>>17903228
I don't even know if I'm doing it correctly or if I'm rushing them. I'm confused...

>>17903230
First off, you can loosen up. Most likely you expect stuff from yourself more than what he expects from you. That's liberating because he loves you for being yourself and not an ideal image. Love ain't perfect, you know?

Secondly, I would at least think that it would be balanced if girls also tried approaching. We have extra work to do and girls staying there until the man gathers all his courage and tries something emotionally risky is unfair.

And it's okay. I need help but if others need it, I'm more than happy to provide space for them in the thread.
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>>17903263
ok, thanks for your kindness OP

fwiw I wouldn't take your ex's words to heart anymore. The impression I got is that she was selfish and demanding and then blamed you for it when that caused problems. Even if I'm way off and she wasn't like that at all, what she said to you was still enough to get stuck in your head all this time and however mean or nice she was, that didn't need to happen.
>you're not stoic enough for my tastes
doesn't mean
>you're not stoic enough for anybody's tastes
k? there's no correct timeframe for when to open up or how much or any of that, you just gotta gauge it by the other person each time. & if you've got issues with intimacy it makes things a bit more difficult of course but it's not insurmountable and a deep connection is def still possible with the right sort of person.

hope you find your happiness OP, and thank you again<3
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>>17903380
>The impression I got is that she was selfish and demanding and then blamed you for it when that caused problems.
Selfish definitely. Once we were supposed to watch an Avengers movie and she asked me if she could go with a friend instead. Or that I wasn't allowed to "dance" in public (I was feeling happy, the music was catchy, I couldn't help it) because "there is a place and time for everything". And even when she paid most of our trip expenses (she made way more than me) she was super manipulative with me. Hell once she even accused me of being a pedo just for browsing 4chan!

>Even if I'm way off and she wasn't like that at all, what she said to you was still enough to get stuck in your head all this time and however mean or nice she was, that didn't need to happen.
It didn't need to. I don't know what she tried to do with me.

>k?
Gotta understand that... Yes.

>there's no correct timeframe for when to open up or how much or any of that, you just gotta gauge it by the other person each time.
I think I can do it if I try to gauge it instead of just doing it indiscriminately.

>& if you've got issues with intimacy it makes things a bit more difficult of course but it's not insurmountable and a deep connection is def still possible with the right sort of person.
Maybe I need a person who's a bit more on the supportive side? Because I know that I could open if I felt no threat.

But then I do feel like I'll put a bit of weight on my partner and that makes things a little more difficult. And that affects me so much like you don't know.

>hope you find your happiness OP, and thank you again<3
No no, thanks to you for reading and lending me a hand!
>>
>>17903419
selfish and controlling to boot, jeez! a bit of possessiveness can feel nice for sure but controlling is a huge red flag. If you're super nice and accommodating and can roll with just about anything you'll be hella attractive to those types so keep aware of that going forward. not paranoid or scared, don't go that far with it, just aware that it's something to avoid if you encounter it in somebody.

>Gotta understand that... Yes.
for such a simple distinction it really does make all the difference man

idk there's just something about some people that being rejected by them (especially if it's over a long period of time and repetitive like this was) makes it feel like you've learned that you're broken and inadequate when all you've really learned is that you aren't a good match for that one person, but that person and others similar to them aren't a good match for you either so in that sense it's almost more of a gain than a loss

>Maybe I need a person who's a bit more on the supportive side?
this yes definitely this
>But then I do feel like I'll put a bit of weight on my partner and that makes things a little more difficult. And that affects me so much like you don't know.
lol oh trust me I know, I'm right there with you on that count
relationships are give and take though, yeah? you support each other, you love each other, you reciprocate and it balances out
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>>17903465
>a bit of possessiveness can feel nice for sure but controlling is a huge red flag.
Something I wish I had learned back then.

>If you're super nice and accommodating and can roll with just about anything you'll be hella attractive to those types so keep aware of that going forward. not paranoid or scared, don't go that far with it, just aware that it's something to avoid if you encounter it in somebody.
You're right. I'm super nice and accommodating in general, or at least I was with her. I let her do whatever she wanted and tried to be as uncontrolling as possible. Sure, sometimes it caused some heartaches (like when she asked me to go with her guy friend instead of me to watch a movie), but I just tried to not cross her boundaries. While I had none.

>idk there's just something about some people that being rejected by them (especially if it's over a long period of time and repetitive like this was) makes it feel like you've learned that you're broken and inadequate when all you've really learned is that you aren't a good match for that one person
Because somehow she had this "aura" of command, like things had to be her way and she would never ever accept that she was in the wrong of something. Even if we had differing opinions she'd push hers all the way down and look down to me if I differed.

>relationships are give and take though, yeah? you support each other, you love each other, you reciprocate and it balances out
That's how it should be. We support each other and it reciprocates. I suppose that this is the result of meeting somebody who's mentally healthy?
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>>17903263
> Like opening up is a threatening act to my self conservation and that it will backfire somehow.
This is where trust comes in. You need to be able to trust your girl, and she needs to be able to show you she's trustworthy.

>I don't even know if I'm doing it correctly or if I'm rushing them. I'm confused...
The more you worry the harder it will be. Feel around the situation for yourself.

>>17903419
She doesn't let you dance? I really don't like your ex OP lol. I taught my partner to dance with me. Its a wonderful bonding experience. And she called you a pedo... yea no, don't let this girl affect how your view your future relationships. Don't let her make you scared of who you are. She sounds like she projected her own failings as a person on to you, a decent person.

>>17903530
Its cool that you care about people but my advice is accommodate your future girlfriends half the time, and then make sure to accommodate yourself. Self respect will make her respect you more as well. But always be honest. Read some articles about establishing boundaries so that you can continue to be a nice person without being a doormat.

I believe in you OP. I had to go through a lot of abuse to find the partner who respects me but I can tell you its worth it. Love is real and you can have it along with respect if you keep going the direction you're going, and don't be afraid to ask people for help.
>>
>>17902441
Don't listen to this. I'm a girl, and there is nothing worse than dating someone who can't talk about emotions. How are you supposed to grow as a couple if you can't even work through shit?
>>
Look, OP, don't rush into the "I love you" stage. I'm a girl, and it can seem like you're rushing things.

However, do not, like most of these people seem to recommend, become an emotionless neanderthal and expect your partner to do ALL the emotional labour for the both of you. Being able to communicate about feelings and the like is very, very, desirable, because otherwise you're left feeling like you can't bring up issues in the relationship. Men seem to tend towards 'ignore it and it'll go away', but women don't do that. In fact, we over analyse everything to a fault, so ignoring issues and the emotional needs of your partner can seem like you don't give a fuck about the relationship, or worse like you're incapable of change and therefore not worth bothering with.

That being said, saying "I want to stay with you forever" etc. after one or two dates can be very offputting.
>>
>>17904418
>This is where trust comes in. You need to be able to trust your girl, and she needs to be able to show you she's trustworthy.
A bit of what I've been thinking about as of late. I'm going to therapy, and my therapist is telling me that it is okay to do stuff such as saying no even if I have no reason to, or to put myself first and foremost. So maybe demanding that she shows she's worth it is okay, especially early in the relationship. I get it?

>The more you worry the harder it will be. Feel around the situation for yourself.
Wait there. The more I worry the harder it is, but then I must be alert to her signals. So I... relax, and feel her reactions? It does strike as slightly odd and a bit difficult to do.

>She doesn't let you dance? I really don't like your ex OP lol.
I'm not a party person, and dancing doesn't come off as natural. We were in a dept. store when it happened, but I was so relaxed and happy I couldn't help it. Yet she complained when I said I wouldn't go dancing to a club with her because I've never liked clubs in the first place, or dancing (which she should've taught me).

>She sounds like she projected her own failings as a person on to you, a decent person.
Very likely. I wonder if I actually made her feel intimidated somehow? I mean only someone who's feeling threatened would actually attack in return, no?

>Read some articles about establishing boundaries
Precisely what I've been working on in therapy. I even had issues with my family because I started enforcing boundaries right off the bat, but at least I feel a bit more confident on enforcing them.

>I believe in you OP.
Thank you!! What you've said so far is encouraging, and I do feel better in fact.

>Love is real and you can have it along with respect if you keep going the direction you're going, and don't be afraid to ask people for help.
I believe ya, love has to be real. Things cannot be this cruel.

And that's why I come here, to ask for help. You're kind!
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>>17904428
Now that you mention it it was probably my ex who had all the issues. Maybe I wasn't the best at communicating my issues but if I had felt safe I would've. I admit to being guilty for letting her step all over me, but then whenever she had issues she'd immediately threaten to break up with me. And when I did talk things over with her, I never threatened her in such a way. Hell once I told her "You know, if you need time just tell me but don't break right off the bat". She nodded, but that's the first thing she did a time later. Which was the last time she broke up with me.

>>17904442
I didn't with my ex. At least I didn't do this. I tried to go slowly (tried, I was still emotional and everything but didn't say stuff like that) until she suddenly told me "I love you" when she rode the bus.

Now I wonder, how do you even calm down when you're with a person you really like and feel like your heart is about to burst?
>>
>>17904481
>The more I worry the harder it is, but then I must be alert to her signals. So I... relax, and feel her reactions?
I don't like the word "alert" so much as "aware". If you overreact, overthink, or overanalyze everything it will cloud the truth and confuse you even more. So yes, just relax! And enjoy whatever stage your relationship is in. Don't rush any of this stuff. Just get to know her as a person and don't take it seriously until it starts feeling serious.


One more thing I want to throw in is try to forgive your ex down the line. A lot of the times we hurt people because we are hurt and don't know what to do about it. Forgiveness will help you move along and focus on learning about yourself and others.

>>17904491
>Now that you mention it it was probably my ex who had all the issues.
Try to be humble so that you can grow. I'm not saying your an ass like your ex, but the fact that you let someone push you around is a personal issue on your part. But its one that you can fix, and you will grow in attractiveness the more you can reflect on yourself. Always be willing to learn, especially about communication and empathy.

>how do you even calm down when you're with a person you really like and feel like your heart is about to burst?
For me, I try to keep my life balanced. Focus on work, school if you're attending, your hobbies, your personal growth, and of course your relationship. Always try to divide your energy so that you can be fulfilled overall with all these things... it will make it easier to avoid dumping too much energy in one place.
>>
>>17904542
>Just get to know her as a person and don't take it seriously until it starts feeling serious.
I think that the key is here. To not take things seriously. It's... It's super odd though, romance for me is a super serious thing and I gotta learn to loosen up. But eh, I've always been a super serious person and I've started to loosen up since some years ago.

>One more thing I want to throw in is try to forgive your ex down the line
The reason I talk so much about her is because she indeed harmed me a lot, and because she was my only serious relationship so that's the most experience I've ever had. I've had non-serious stuff with other girls (it felt serious to me, but not to them clearly) which all of them but one just lasted for a month. That one also hurt me a LOT, enough that I ended up with a 6 month depression. And it's super clear to me that I want nothing to do with her.

Yeah my ex was awful, but I don't despise her. I just don't want to repeat the mistakes I did with her. And I must be aware of them.

>Try to be humble so that you can grow.
Oh, yeah. I shouldn't have typed that. I did made mistakes. I did fuck up a couple times, although I did recognize what I did and I apologized to her. And I never repeated any of my fuck ups. But my biggest mistake was...

>I'm not saying your an ass like your ex, but the fact that you let someone push you around is a personal issue on your part.
...precisely this. Not enforcing my boundaries (which I had no idea which were). I'm willing to learn, and this is why I analyze what happened.

>For me, I try to keep my life balanced.
Hm, odd... I wasn't precisely focusing that much on her. I had school back then, I had my friends (I left them for a month until my ex pushed me to go with them), personal growth, hobbies, yet I invested a lot of my heart on her, probably more than what she did with me.
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>>17902778
One thing /adv/ used to know is never take advice from women on what women want.

Women want from men what they don't know and can't bring. They literally don't know what they want, like on an instinctual basis, so that they can surreptitiously test if a partner can give them what they want.

It's probably the same for men too.
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>>17903419
oh my god the dancing thing. I feel you on that man. girls who care too much about the way they appear to other people are shit
>>
>>17904896
Yes you're right, she was super aware of how she appeared to others.

How do you deal with one or is this a red flag?
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