I am a male, 24, and I have this problem with basically not thinking

>>17107464
maybe you aren't good enough

i have the same problem

Don't manipulate them. If someone accepts you then, you'll know it wasn't because you manipulated them. Because Logic. Or, if you think your social skills are all that, build them up then I dunno, do traditionally unattractive stuff like fart around them and see how they deal with it. If you are as good as you think, you should test it by trying to always be there for a bi-polar person.

>>17107490
but then again i know for a fact that im honestly not good enough

im stupid to believe i can find happyness and my soulmate

I was in the same shit. Stop trying to convince others that you are good and try to acknowledge what people are saying to you.

>>17107493

I manipulate people positively; not to try to make myself look better. For example, I manipulated my closest friends into going to college and studying the things they were good at. I also manipulated them to dress well and not do certain things. I do not manipulate people by telling them things about myself; I do it by helping them with their biggest issues, and that endears them toward me in a way that makes them treat me like a best friend. I've been the best man at 3 weddings so far, so that should say something.

This also makes me trust them less when they give me compliments, for some reason... despite the fact that I always try to tell them to be honest and true with me.

>>17107502

I legitimately always listen to what people say, and I always consider it. But when I tell my closest friends that I am insecure about my looks, they always tell me I shouldn't be. We have taken molly a few times and they still tell me I'm good looking. However, I don't believe it; who is going to tell their friend that they are ugly? Also, girls NEVER go for me just based on my looks; they always go after my friends first. Girls never take interest in me until I start talking. Maybe I'm just exaggerating that, but that is the way I have seen it.

>>17107517
Ok, who is going to tell you an honest opinion about yourself? Your real friends. It seems you dont trust your friends. And again, stop comparing yourself with others and satisfy yourself first.

>>17107464
>However, there's no way that this is everything.
It is. You have to understand that the psyche of a developing kid is very fragile. Children need the love and care of their parents to turn into healthy functioning adults.
Your father destroyed your mental health.
There is a way to fix yourself, you're not doomed to be broken forever. By accepting that your father fucked you up and seeing that you've been falsely programmed. You ARE handsome and smart that is a fact and you need to believe it.
It can help you to read about psychology and how the human mind works. Especially about victims of abuse in childhood.

>>17107517
>For example, I manipulated my closest friends into going to college and studying
That's called giving advice not manipulation.

>>17107517

That's fine, but I didn't say you were bad for manipulating people. I suggested if you do not manipulate people, you will know those people liking you has nothing to do with you manipulating them. I wonder if you expect people to walk out of a void and profess their appreciation on you without any of your personal influence upon them? I think you are digging a little too deep for Uber Feels.

>>17107557

People don't follow advice unless they respect you. I manipulated them into thinking I was someone worth listening too. I went down this path myself, for example, and acted as if it was improving my life, making me smarter, more confident, and other things. I try to motivate them to make good decisions, and I've read a lot about the psychology of body language, word choice, and tone of voice. I'm good at motivating people not only because I've read up on how to do it, but because my sister is an expert at it and has taught me. My father is also a very good salesperson; it kind of runs in my blood.

>>17107553

I know that you're right, and I've read about that, but I've still found no way to really rid myself of this deep seeded issue. I used to be so petrified of talking to ANYONE let alone girls, that I had no social skills at all. I taught myself everything when I was about 19 by writing on a board exactly who I wanted to become personality wise, and it all became real. However, this issue is simply not going away, and I don't know how to deal with it. Honestly, it might simple come down to me not being courageous enough to accept that I might be good looking, or smart, and just not being able to face it because it's easier not to. I'm not sure, I'm really just not sure.

>My father used to call me ugly and stupid nearly every day as a kid, so I know that must contribute to things.

And of course as a kid your parents appear to you as omniscient gods. I don't think you ever truly unlearn this.

I fell the same way as OP. My father used to call me ugly, I found out 4 weeks ago he was actually jealous of me both physically and intellectually.

30 years old. NEET. Virgin. Friendless. Barely employed in pleb-tier job where single mothers make passes at me or crave my emotional support.

Does psychotherapy actually work or is it just a scam for making shekels out of desperate fools?

>>17107568
... to expand on this, what about the people in the world who are not handsome or likable? Is that who you are? Could you be either and what does it really matter? Does it vary? How do either 'cope'? I'm sorry your father molded your impressionable mind in such a way. I think you're going too deep. Only you can let go of the desire to stay stuck doubting. Question yourself or your Father's motives instead of any current or future friends you may ever have.

>>17107568

I might be reading into what you're saying incorrectly, but I do not believe people would like me unless I help them, or add value to their lives or to social situation I am in.

People have expressed their appreciation for me before, and that does feel good, but I don't do it because I want appreciation, I do it because I want friends. I'm also someone who makes everyone laugh, and entertains people, and I do that because I want friends too. I want them people around me to be happy, and to have fun when I'm around, and I really feel like I have a strong influence on them... so I try to use that to do something positive I guess. I do dig deep to help people, and to garner "feels" from them, because I think that the way you make people feel is much more important than what you actually say.

Once again, please correct me if I'm not reading into what you're saying accurately.

>>17107586

Friendship and appreciation go hand in hand, as you have just described. People like people who help, agree, pleasure or generally resonate with them. You can do this intentionally but wonder if you could have achieved this without any of your knowledgeable "manipulation". Does it cause you guilt or just dissatisfaction? Everything you just described sounds normal to me, except your understanding of social interaction is ahead of the curve, and that's nothing to regret. Still, I understand that being the magician and know a trick is not very exciting, not as exciting as the person in the crowd watching in awe. Suck is the burden of knowledge.

>>17107575
>I've still found no way to really rid myself of this deep seeded issue
Well anon first I see how I forgot to mention my dad did exactly the same to me. Besides telling me how worthless I was he beat me a lot too. In my case I've overcome that crap by being in a relationship. It took my then boyfriend (now husband) a year to convince me I was worth something.
After I gave birth to my kids my life changed completely. They fulfill my life and make me try my best for them. I overcame the low self esteem by growing up for the sake of my kids. I have to be a strong parent for I want them to grow up with love and to be strong and decent human beings with healthy self esteem.

>>17107608

Everyone believes I am the most confident guy in the room because as I said before, I am excellent at putting up an act. The truth is that I've never had a girlfriend. Yep, never. Whenever I tell people that I have issues with girls, they almost always say "you're the last person I'd expect to say that"... and no, I'm not exaggerating; this is the response I always get. Because of this, no one ever really helps me with the issue, they just say "you'll be fine", and things like that.

I've always though a relationship would really help me too. But the reality is that even if girls do like me, and they probably do much more often than I even think, I simply cannot accept that reality. I always tell myself that it's not real even when I know it is, or that I'm not good enough, and I squander every opportunity or even go out of my way to avoid the it from ever happening. It's a vicious, terrible circle. I don't put myself out there because of this issue that I have, and that you once had, and it prevents the relationship that I probably need from ever happening.

>>17107602

I really appreciate your responses a lot because they resonate with me. Yes, I do wonder if people would really like if I wasn't "playing tricks" on them. I believe a lot in the concept of value, and that it is what makes the world go round. I always try to add value to every situation I am in, and I believe that if I am not doing this, people will not like me. I simply cannot sit back and be passive, ever... I always feel like I have to work hard to get people to like me, and that every social situation is a lot like work in some way, if that makes any sense.

>>17107624
I hear what you're saying too, OP. I think back to when I got into a bit of an argument with a casual friend's GF. She was like a .. bitch, imo. But then he fell asleep in the living room and we started talking and all of a sudden we were on the same page and considering where we just came from, it was beautiful. Unscripted, unmanipulated... genuine. Nothing else ever happened there, but the moment serves as a cold reminder that sometimes ignorance is bliss. Even if you know how to write the scripts, you may still find those who can script better than you, I ran into that, too, was kinda nice being on the other side. I think you just know a little more than you should for what you want to experience and it sometimes causes you frustration or doubt. I wish you luck, OP.

>>17107624
If you really are in a relationship it's much more different. So yeah my best advice is for you to keep focusing on the issue with girls.

>>17107624
And don't overcomplicate human relationships. It is normal for humans to affect each other. Be it between you and others or others and others.
Why should one wonder about the what ifs? If you don't influence others then others will. That is a fact you need to accept. Human are social animals designed to live in social groups. If we weren't we'd live like butterflies or flies or so.