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We have these insane, alcoholic, aggressive, asshole, people

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We have these insane, alcoholic, aggressive, asshole, people on the block that aren't afraid to poison your pet or vandalize and burn down yours house (it has happened with a few of there 6 kids that half are in one form of lock up or another). Everyone in our town is afraid of them and they have this doberman that is wildly aggressive and goes around the town attacking people and their dogs and going onto property and trying attack people and their dogs. Nobody will report these dog attacks, because fear that as many times before our local government won't back us and the police are useless so they never end up getting punished then the people that report it get attacked by these psychos. They have always made our lives a living Hell specifically, because we stood up to them a few times so we are on constant guard especially because what is left of their kids will get all camouflaged up and sneak onto our property all the time and do shit. We catch them, but nothing is ever done. So, two days ago me and my girl were out for a jog and their dog attacked us and bit me so I kicked it and the owners came running up and screaming at us threatening to kill us and shit. They got a fine and we were told they may never pay it and there would be no real repercussions and all we could do is keep fining them. I'm sick of this BS me and my girl and in a neighborhood we like with people we get along with and are friends with all except these psychos. What do you guys recommend I do. the law doesn't seem to want to help anyone in our town and these psychos use it as their drugged up playground.
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>>16950852
Kill the dog in a discreet way or take it to the pound. I truly feel bad for the animal for having shitty owners, but it could potentially get rabies and bite a child.

How old are these people by the way? Do you have ways to videotape them in action?
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Catch the dog and take it to a shelter. They'll have to pay to get it out. Hopefully it will keep them from letting it run around
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You should make sure to know your rights and leash law if it exists where you live.

If you have (video) proof that a dog attacks unprovoked more than once or twice the city government can order it to be put down.
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>>16950860
We have contemplated that, but somebody we know works at the pound and says if they came they could just pick him up. As for killing it it has ran across my mind, but I'm not a discreet kind of guy I wouldn't know how to do that and my girlfriend goes into tacardia thinking about what they'll do to us since they are both "disabled" and up all night screaming and shit. And that they take everything out on us to begin with. For shit sakes one of their kids killed one guys pet with bleach and one of their other burnt down a house so I can't imagine we'd get off easy. This couple is mid 50s
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>>16950852
I remember a story about an American town that was threatened by this huge asshole some time ago and one day he was found dead. So many people (essentially the entire community) were prime suspects and that, combined with what the asshole had done, made the police drop the case entirely.

So I guess the moral is to get as many people in your community as possible who were wronged by this family and come together to murder the family/dog.
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>>16950876
We have photographic and video evidence, but no one gives a shit "fines are all they can do" bullshit and there are no leash laws in our area
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>>16950876
>We have contemplated that, but somebody we know works at the pound and says if they came they could just pick him up.
Hmmm, I guess it's a bit different where you live. You could try driving the dog somewhere and leaving it in a shelter out of state. Somewhere pretty far and out of the way. They wouldn't even know what to do or where to look.
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>>16950880
Sadly we tried to get the community together on a few of the times we reported them but they are way to afraid they all panic.
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>>16950881
What state?
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>>16950890
That would be the best bet. It sucks too because this dog run a out infront of tractor trailers and busses and shit and never once gets hit and supposedly when their psycho kids were younger they did be same shit and never got hit damn...
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>>16950894
Oregon
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>>16950908
>(7) If the keeper of a dog is not charged with violating ORS 609.095 (2) or (3) or ORS 609.098, and the dog control board or county governing body finds that the dog has menaced or chased a person when on premises other than the premises from which the keeper may lawfully exclude others or has bitten a person, the dog control board or county governing body may order that the dog be killed in a humane manner. Before ordering that the dog be killed, the board or governing body shall consider the factors described in ORS 609.093 and issue written findings on those factors.

Sounds like if it bites a person ad you get it on camera, you can have it put down for fear of rabies, but I'm not entirely sure, just look up ORS 609.090
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>>16950934
Oh now I read they have to keep it for 10 days. They won't necessarily kill it right away. They'll just keep getting fined until there's too many instances.
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>>16950934
Thanks, where did you find that
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>>16950852
Well, I'm not sure how much you gonna take of useful out of this tale but I live in Brazil and went I went to uni i moved to a good neighbourhood. Most people there were uni kids like me, on their 192 and early 20s and the worse 'crime' was potheads in the woods behind uni. Occasionaly there was a mugging in the campus because it was dark, but those were few and far apart. And then this kid, little black suburban kid, starts robbing people at knife point outside campus. He's 'smart', he knows that side of campus was full os hippies and such since it was the humanities departament side. So they were pushovers and always had beer/pot money with them. Kid gets famous, nobody knows his name but always the same. Police wont do shit because they dislike the potheads district. Kid mugs like, once a day or once every two days. Starts getting agressive. Eventually a girl gets cut in the arm when she was refusing to give up her purse.

We were all concerned because it was a matter of time till the kid got over his head, lost it and killed someone. And we didnt want to be that one, nor lose a friend that way. We are talking and eventually find out there are like, 20 people easily that knew and were concerned with the situation. Either themselves, their roomies or gf/bf were mugged by this kid and they were very worried where it was going.

So we go to this big ukranian descendent guy, he is honstely seven feet tall, and two of our friends who are chubby-strong, like huge with fat but also muscle, since they were the most intimidating, and we hang out on the uni gate. A friend call us and say the kid was spotted with another friend at a corner, so we go there and when we are coming near the kid, pull up shirts or masks in front of our face and circle him. He pulls a knife, but we have a baseball bat (which since NO ONE plays baseball in brazil, is universally a symbol of beating someone up. Like in Russia) and...(cont)
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>>16950953
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/609.090
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>>16950852
I don't usually advocate violence... but this is a time I would advocate violence. I have a Glock 9mm in a quick combo safe for this exact reason.

I would shoot that dog to death the minute it walked onto my property and if they so much as stepped one fucking foot on my property after that, they would be shot to death too.

Other people's dogs are NOT allowed on your property. People in CAMO GEAR are NOT allowed on your property.

They want to know what fear is? Put a violent doberman on my property and tell me you're going to kill me while running at me. I hope your enjoy watching your loved ones die.

Just reading about your story made me angry.
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>>16950956
...and a knife is scary as fuck, but a seven feet tall ukranian guy with a baseball bat and a chubby strong black dude with a chain is much scarier and this kid might be like 17. His friend seems old, cant say the age. You know those potheads types that could be 20 or 40 because they all smoked out and shit? Well. We demand their knife, cellphone and wallet and the kid tries to talk tough and threatens with knife so we hit his hand so hard with the bat I think we broke something. he drops knife and starts crying. We steal his cellphone, wallet and knife, and his friend too. We dump the phones on a sewers grate and we hit the kid a couple times with the bat until he drops, then his friend just sorta kneel and we tell them if they show up in the neighbourhood again, they are dead. And then we beat them up some more, Make them walk to a alley nearby and tell then to stay agaisnt the wall, count to thirty and then go away in a straight line and not show up again.

No only he didn't, but there were no muggings in the are for a while. We heard that he actually went to the police because of the hand but we can't be sure if that's true because we heard from extra official sources. Problem solved.

Now I'm just saying if the police won't act for B it likely wont act for A, and if you want to get rid of crazy, you have to one up them. They have to fear you. Lots of people outward agressive for no reason are mentally sick and trying to hide fears by being agressive. They own an attack dog, which probably means they are defensive. Kill the dog, beat them up and tell them to leave the neighbourhood. That will solve your shit.
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>>16950978
Oh right, i forgot OP lived in america. Just go to a vending machine and get a real gun, or even a 9mm if you can't afford something that's not glorified airsoft, and then waste the fuckers. There will be a trial buf if they entered your property without permission multiple times and you have photographic evidence, them you wont go to jail. Specially if you are a first offender.
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>>16950978
I'm just curious but is it legal to claim self-defense in advance to an aggressive neighbor or one with an aggressive dog? Like,

>Just letting you know, I have a gun and am willing to shoot your dog if it attacks me

Can you do that? It doesn't seem like a threat if it's about self-defense.
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>>16950978
That's what I said to my girlfriend is let me get my pistol and buy a silencer and take care of shit. My girlfriend is worried my red eye side will come out and I'll murder the fuck out of them which isn't a bad idea since they are always trespassing and shit so when they do we get them. We have been dealing with this shit for two year sadly
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>>16950986
I'm hoping with the recent increase in their psychosis the neighborhood will get together again and take care of it vigilante style
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>>16950997
Yes, it is legal and it doesn't even depend on country. Unless you are like a woman defending herself in saudi arabi, most of the western world is pretty clear that you have the right to protect your own life even through lethal means, and announcing willingness to shoot in self defense is not a death threat. In some countries is even mandatory that you announce willigness to shoot before shooting to be consider proper self defense. In brazil, three verbal warnings or a warning shot are necessary. if you failed to do that you are not arrested but you can be penalized for 'abusing self defense'. Samething for like, killing someone with ten shots instead of one or two. It is self defense but it can be penalized if you intention or demeanour escalated the situation instead of descalated it.
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>>16950993
It seems if the law seriously won't help us with this biting we have no other option

>>16950997
We have warned them multiple times and they laugh at us which just makes it more aggregating
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>>16951000
this thread is fake and gay

and the proper name is suppressor; rl isn't blops3
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>>16950997
No, DO NOT do that. That's known as assault actually because you're threatening force without justification, justification being an immediate and lethal threat.

You need three things for lethal self defense - AOJ. Ability, Opportunity, and Jeopardy. The assailant has to have the ability to hurt you, the opportunity to hurt you, and you must feel like you or your loved ones are in jeopardy.

Which is why I said this:
>Put a violent doberman on my property and tell me you're going to kill me while running at me.
Ability - doberman. Opportunity - on my property and running at me. Jeopardy - yelling he's gonna kill me. Boom, he gets shot to death and it's self defense.
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>>16951020
It seems like taking the dog down would be the easy part when all is said and done, but it's the family that is he bigger issue. After their dog dies I can only imagine us being the targets and their psychosis being amplified can't be everywhere at once. We have contemplated putting surveillance cameras up to help
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>>16951036
Do you own your house or rent?

You can't just move?
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>>16951046
Own
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>>16951036
This is true, which is the trade off. I have no problem being vigilant. I'm always fucking ready. I would shoot the people on my property to death, kill the dog last (you'll be bitten obviously), and then look straight into their eyes and say if I ever see you near me again, you'll be next. I would mean it.

I would get restraining orders against them immediately. All of them. That's the first step. Then I would continue to file complaints every time the dog trespassed. owners are liable in court for the behavior of their animals. I would file report after report - hundreds if need be - with the police - every. single. time. I would also be filing complaints with the pound - every time.

By the time I shot them to death, I would have 100s of complaints against them and their dog, restraining orders against all of them, and video surveillance of them trespassing and threatening me with their dog. Hours, maybe days of footage.

Then they would start dying in the order that they want to threaten me.
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You can either move, submit, or be scarier. Those are really your own options. Since you're here asking for advice rather than laying low until there are better, newer suspects to fuck up an arson investigation, I'm going to suggest you move.
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>>16950997
Legal? Probably, what state are you in?

Is it a good idea? Well, are you willing to actually shoot? Are you willing to soak up the repercussions of picking a fight with these people? Chances are there will be retaliation, you'll definitely find yourself in jail overnight while they investigate. Standing up to them means you're betting that you're bigger and scarier. That works for some people, you know better than us if its going to work for you.
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>>16951071
I'm not OP but he said he lives in OR and I referenced oregon laws and a website earlier in the thread.
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>>16951061
Thats retarded internet tough guy shit. Do you know what happens when you shoot someone who you have a documented beef with? If theres a serious crime, fine, file a report and maybe go with a restraining order, but going to the lengths you describe starts to look a hell of a lot like motive to a prosecutor who wants a murder conviction to pad their resume.
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>>16951061
A combination of everything seems the best bet at the moment we will keep recording it and complaints and shit. Problem is in our borough or city or whatever they seem to have a strict monogamous relationship restraining order policy where if it didn't pertain to say a girl and her ex boyfriend they won't help. I'd have to take it to state level
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>>16951075
Oregon has open carry, a decent Castle law, and no duty to retreat. Not a bad deterrent.

Just saying...
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>>16951079
>Do you know what happens when you shoot someone who you have a documented beef with?
Yeah. I do. lol. What happens is this:
>They violated a restraining order
>They menaced you in a lethal manner with their dog
>You have this on video tape
>you have this documented iwth the police
>then they threaten to kill you
>Then they come onto your property with a menacing dog in clear violation of a restraining order and threaten to kill you
Sounds like the perfect self defense case to me!

But you keep going with your little Law and Order "oh no prosecutors padding resumes wooo!" Of course he's going to go to trial... where he will promptly win based on the evidence.
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>>16951085
This guy brings up a good point won't it seem like motive even if they are trespassing?
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>>16951085
Then keep filing it and take it to the state level. they are threatening your life by menacing you with their dog.... which is exactly how you should put it to the police:
>I am in fear for my life
>the dog has bitten my girlfriend
>i am in fear for her life.
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>>16951095
Going to trial is still going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. Defending the civil suit against meth heads who think they've won the ghetto lottery and have no disincentive to filing is going to drain OP as well. In a fairly pro-gun state with no duty to retreat he's better off just being armed and responding. Its a lot easier to back a prosecutor down with "well, my client has made complaints in the past, he's been injured in the distant past, and he was visibly armed. Of course he has a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury when his attacker continued to advance despite a clear warning to stop and the display of a handgun" than "well, I know it looks like my client was holding a grudge but..."

If OP shoots someone he's going to be out a retainer, minimum. I'd guess he'd prefer to be in for the cost of a used car rather than the cost of a new BMW.
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>>16951122
You don't know how to read, sir.
>Then they come onto your property with a menacing dog in clear violation of a restraining order and threaten to kill you
You also don't really know anything about the law. Or lawyers. Or really much of anything.
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>>16951127
Thats a lot of assumptions to make. The dog goes onto his property. Sure, he'd be in the clear to shoot the dog, its just property. OP's concern is retaliation. Thats an especially important concern because he has already said that the local police don't follow through and others in the community have suffered retribution after making complaints.

The dog attack OP mentioned was in public while out on a jog. Thats not going to be the clear cut case you're suggesting. Any retribution is likely to not be as clean and clear as you're imagining, either.

OP doesn't want to be a Zimmerman or a Goetz. Hell, you can look at what happened to Harold Fish, too, if we're talking about just how sideways this could go for OP.
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The lawyer my family uses is really great and a personal level kind of guy so maybe I'll ask him what my options are as well
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>>16951161
No one is debating that it could go sideways, but your doom and gloom scenario is statistically very unlikely in a situation where:
>there is a restraining order (very important)
>there is documented cases of police reports being filed and nothing being done (negligence)
>there is widespread community consensus (as OP has stated) that these people are violent
>the individual is coming onto your property (stand your ground / castle laws /etc.)
>and the man is threatening to kill you (AOJ)
>and the OP knows lawyers... who will tell him what I just told you (because my family has lawyers in it... and I live with one...)
SOOOOO I'mma go with me and my assumptions. But yes, there is always a risk that you'll be a Harold Fish.
>who was out in the wilderness
>with no witnesses
>no restraining order
>and got a really unlucky prosecutor
There's a reason THAT ONE CASE is extremely well known. Why? Because that's not the norm. AND there are significant differences between Harold and this situation, specifically the things I listed above.
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>>16951183
BTW my lawyer roommate just told me to tell OP:
>"If you shoot at them, make sure they die so it's only your word against a dead man's."
Good luck OP. Document, document, document. File reports. get restraining orders. Get surveillance footage.

Then get your guns.
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>>16951183
>there is a restraining order (very important)
He's already said thats a difficult prospect.
>there is documented cases of police reports being filed and nothing being done (negligence)
Which could just as easily be spun as a long history of mutual conflict.
>there is widespread community consensus (as OP has stated) that these people are violent
Excellent witnesses at trial, but at that point OP is already at least $20k in so he's hoping he doesn't get there.
>the individual is coming onto your property (stand your ground / castle laws /etc.)
First, he'd have to be on OP's property at the time of an incident. Thats either enormously stupid (good for OP) or highly unlikely (bad for OP). Castle would apply at home, but Oregon doesn't exactly have SYG, they just have no duty to retreat. They also don't have the "stop a forceable felony" clause in their Use of Force statutes, which could cause problems.
>and the man is threatening to kill you (AOJ)
You're assuming that a threat comes at the same time as an attack. Thats not always how it goes, especially with experienced criminals. If OP is armed, a mere threat without significant, clear threatening behavior or brandishing is going to work against a reasonable fear argument.

My argument isn't that OP shouldn't act. Its that OP should make a choice between documenting as you're suggesting in an attempt to force someone to do something or documenting enough to show that there is a history of threat and then acting on his own. If OP has the kind of obsessive documentation you were suggesting and then ends up shooting these people theres going to be a much higher chance of someone seeing the documentation as evidence of motive rather than justification. Thats especially true as Oregon doesn't have civil immunity.

OP needs to consult a lawyer rather than /adv/ anyway.
Thread posts: 47
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