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Why do men get so dramatic, harsh, and hostile about either being

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Why do men get so dramatic, harsh, and hostile about either being "friend-zoned," other guys getting friend-zoned, or just the subject in general?

I mean, it does suck to not have your feelings returned. But I don't get how you can date someone without being friends with them too. The only surefire way for me to be romantically interested in a guy is if we were already friends in the first place.
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Just men?
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>>16948082
>The only surefire way for me to be romantically interested in a guy is if we were already friends in the first place.
You're both an idiot and a cruel bitch then.
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Women withdraw and either hate themselves or blame men in general. Men either hate themselves or women in general. Men, as per their sex, generally act more aggressively to perceived threats. What else do you do when you feel terrified and alone as "the world" rejects you, as a person?
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>>16948082
Mostly because it's still largely on men to do all the approaching, so it can feel a lot more punishing than just a "no" to put in a lot of effort and just get strung along.
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>>16948082
>Why do men get so dramatic, harsh, and hostile about either being "friend-zoned," other guys getting friend-zoned, or just the subject in general?

They don't, you're just on 4chan where a sizable amount of the population is forever-alone frogs, Nice Guy™s, and redpill robots.

Guys who are actually aware of how life works, don't get "friend-zoned" in the first place. They either make their move, move on, or move forward (not sit in an imaginary zone of friendship).

>I mean, it does suck to not have your feelings returned. But I don't get how you can date someone without being friends with them too. The only surefire way for me to be romantically interested in a guy is if we were already friends in the first place

You're not understanding the concept of the "friend-zone". The "friend-zone" is supposedly a place where you get placed when a girl is not romantically interested in you (I say supposedly because see above).

In either case, you're either naive/dense or VERY strange if you can honestly 100% tell me that you can go from 100% platonic (with 0 romantic interest/attraction), to 100% romantically interested. There always has to be a base attraction somewhere there in the background for that to work. Even if you're friends it's basically means you're dancing around that attraction until it gets activated and put in to the forefront.
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Because people use "friend-zone" to mean different things.
The type people are mostly upset about, is when friend-zone means being fake friends with someone, and leading them on for attention. And that's a shitty thing for either gender to do.

As for dating, people have different methods of going about it. For you, I imagine dating means officially being bf/gf. For some people, dating means going on dates with someone and getting to know them better to see if you want to be exclusive.

Someone just asking you out on a date without knowing you well isn't necessarily romantically interested, they might be looking for something casual.
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>>16948082
You're right and 4chan is generally wrong. I hve never understood the 4chan phobia about the friendzone. The best romantic rlaltionships are built on friendship as the core. And even if they don't become romantic, what's wrong with having friends-who-are-girls?
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>>16948082
Because it's failure to make whomever you like yours. It tends to be chronic in those who suffer it.

It tends to come from the idealistic naivete the inexperienced have in believing that kindness alone will win a girl's heart. In such a case, one may become resentful as their kindness is rewarded by rejection or growing indifference.
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In this vein, why do (some)men expect something back for friendship? That's so weird to me.

I've rejected a lot of guys who I thought were my friends only to watch them scatter like roaches after they found out I wasn't interested or had a boyfriend. "Why did you tell me you had a bf?!" "Uh, because I didn't think it was relevant, and girls whose answer to all male comments "I hav a bf" are annoying and presumptive?"
Being rejected romantically hurts, but being rejected as a whole person when pussy is off the table hurts too. Like, maybe I enjoyed our conversations and thought you actually wanted to talk to me about our mutual interests.
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>>16948082
It's because of these 'Nice Guys' feel entitled to the girl if they act nice towards her.

They're simply afraid to ask for what they want for fear of creating conflict or they simply can't take no for an answer and expect a friendship to develop in to a romantic relationship as long as they keep being "nice" towards her. They don't realize that they're actually insecure assholes who are only being nice towards the girl because they except to get something in return like sex or relationship.

So once they realize that they are not getting what they want and that all that work has been for nothing they eventually show their true colors and become bitter assholes who hate women for going after "jerks" or "alphas" because they are simply too full of themselves to admit that they were wrong.
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>>16948185
It isn't being friends with women that's the problem. It's being stuck as just friends with someone you're in love with, which is a constant and personal hell to go through. Hanging around someone who doesn't return your feelings is horrifying enough. When it's a friend, that means seeing on a regular basis, thus continuing to expose you to that horrific experience. And if you're heterosexual, that terror is going to be exclusively with the opposite sex.

I'd rather go through my brother's suicide again than that.
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>>16948216
You're projecting as hard as anyone for presuming no one in the situation is ever genuine in their affection or kindness to begin with. As though the behavior that comes from the pain of rejection inherently means they were always just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Neither the generalizations about those who get freindzoned nor those about women are that useful.
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>>16948082
Because they feel lead on.

And for fucks sake don't waste time being friends first. If you like them, go out on a date. You don't have to start making out of fucking asap, but at least they know your interested.

I've had many girls that have had a thing for me and I never did anything because they gave zero signs, they said we were friends so that's how I thought of them.

Basically, don't waste yours and their time.
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>>16948227
>You're projecting as hard as anyone for presuming no one in the situation is ever genuine in their affection or kindness to begin with.
There's actually a huge difference in being nice and being kind

Here's a pretty good article about it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/marcia-sirota/too-nice_b_946956.html
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>>16948197
>Like, maybe I enjoyed our conversations and thought you actually wanted to talk to me about our mutual interests.
Doing stuff like that usually results in one party developing feelings for the other. :/
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>>16948216
Some people are genuine but just don't know how to convey their feelings properly. They aren't entitled, they just don't understand why they seemingly have been misinterpreted.

There are some people who feel entitled, but it's honestly a small minority and it's a stupid fucking meme on the net.
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>>16948223
>>16948227

There is a big difference between
"I like being around you, but it's too painful for me, I'm sorry"

and

"I like being around you but it's too painful for me you ungrateful whore."

The idea that they were always a wolf in sheep's clothing doesn't come from the women. It comes from the men who bitch about having to listen to the problems of a person they supposedly liked.

It is painful. I've done it. I really fucked up my life trying to pursue someone who never had any intention of being with me, and who actually did romantically lead me on. Course, he killed himself. Wish he was still alive breaking my heart. It'd be funny if it was your brother.
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>>16948234

I'm pansexual and I don't want to fuck all of my friends. And the ones I do have romantic attraction to? Doesn't break my heart. Infatuation phase hurts but once it matures and mellows I just like being around them.
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>>16948232
>huffpo
Yeah, no.

That has little to do with my assertion anyway. It's absurd to present that those who become bitter post-friendzoning where universally never genuine in their kindness. More likely, they are emotionally immature, and unable to cope with their illusions being shattered.

Some may be, but you are drawing a rule from the worst and inherently most vocal examples.
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>>16948244
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for a lot of other people, including some of your friends. Sometimes mixing friendship and romance is a great way to destroy both.
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>>16948093
What is a red pill robot?
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>>16948216
What if she enjoys my company and I enjoy her company too, but she never contacts me? What if the amount of meet ups tends to be 0 if I decided to minimize my romantic feelings towards her and because of that the amount of contacting her, but this leads to almost no contact?
Am I the person who's seeing her as the "somehow bad person for not also wanting my dick"?
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>>16948308

Maybe she doesn't enjoy your company that much and your reasoning makes no sense.
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Expectation vs Reality:

It's pretty easy to delude yourself into an over-inflated sense of self worth. It's also easy to engineer a fantasy world where the two of you were "meant to be". Once you begin to believe your own bullshit, everything she says or does, and every interaction you have with her becomes confirmation of your "destiny".

Sooner or later, though, you'll try to move on it and then reality is going to kick you in the balls.

It's the hardest kick in the balls you'll ever receive, but it's your own fault for not living in reality. Hopefully a guy only makes this mistake once, but some just aren't as perceptive as the average tree stump.
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>>16948082
god I wish I could fall into this 'friend zone' sometimes, It would seriously improve the friendship between all of us. It's usually goes like this: friend likes girl, all was going fine, they haven't officially dated and still get to know one another, until I show up, girl likes me, girl rejects friend, I reject girl, friend starts avoiding me. Repeat a few times and now I only have "acquaintances".
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>>16948311
How can I "see" or "read" it? I mean on the other hand she said, it's fun with me. She mentioned the fact, that we didn't saw each other after a long time. What if I left our common circle of friends, how involved is this fact?
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>>16948248
Yeah I guess.

But when ones actions are shadowed by ulterior motives it's very hard to separate the genuine kindness from nice acts. But I do agree that not all of these chases are as bad as I might have made it sound. It's actually something one can grow up from and become a genuinely kind person if he is willing to grow up and accept that he was wrong.

The people who are naturally kind don't really expect anything in return from their kindness and are very forward with the things they want. They don't really get stuck in to the friend-zone because they can take and give a no for an answer and accept their status of being just friends with the girl and move on.
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>>16948308
>>16948321
And what does it mean, if I saw her so often because we shared the same circle of friends? What my intention to meet only her was too much romantically invested? What does it mean if my other attempts to meet her (with different friends and honestly to try to establish a friendship without needing the circle of friends) were rejected?
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>>16948330

You sound thirsty and crazy. Stop trying to guess. Ask her if you must.
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>>16948308
>What if she enjoys my company and I enjoy her company too, but she never contacts me?

If you're interested in her simply ask her out.
"I find you really interesting and really enjoy your company so I was wondering If you'd like to go out with me?"

After that she will know that you're interested in dating her and you no longer need to hide your true intentions. If she says no all you've done is complimented her and told her that she's interesting enough to date. Then you can just be deal with the fact she's just a friend, move on and keep it at that and she might actually become more friendly towards you (as a friend) if you act cool about it and respect her decision.
If she says yes then be prepared for a emotional roller coaster that's called a relationship.

If you want something ask for it and be prepared to take a no for an answer and you'll get a lot further in life than just expecting things to happen and to get handed to you.
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>>16948336
I think it's kind of making me confused. I don't know, I tried to establish the friendship out of the (old) circle of friends and even told her at one point, that it will end in this, if I leave the circle of friends. After a while I met her (with another friend. talked, had fun) and also mentioned in a small amount what bothered me. Few weeks later similar happens and I was too romantically invested to be able to listen to her problems with a guy she banged/wanted to be with. So I acted "weird" and unconcentrated and told her to talk this topic with a good female friend. Then months went by without any contact, met her again (with friends, a ritual at time of the year) and there she mentioned "it's almost a year since we saw us". I didn't said something and I don't know why I should be the one, who should try things out again, after she rejected me a few times. Furthermore some weeks went by again without any contact.
I don't want to guess and I don't want to be the jerk again who is too much invested.
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>>16948347

You're already the jerk who is too much invested. The fact that she was nice to you after a long time apart is social courtesy. She might enjoy your company, but not enough to seek it out.

OR she is shy.

Just do >>16948346 and be done with it. But try to sound less like a desperate loser when you talk to her.
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>>16948351
>She might enjoy your company, but not enough to seek it out.
What should I think of that? I mean, is that a "good friend"?

Besides that: The moment where she talked about the other guy did hurt. I was a jerk not telling this to her, but she knew at that moment I had feelings for her. Just didn't know it would have such a big influence after some weeks without contact. Furthermore it's also not "nice" to accept a meet up and refuse it moments before. Even more if I ask what's the reason and didn't really got an answer.

>when you talk to her
I don't talk to her, I don't see her and I don't write her. I have seen her one time in over one year.
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>>16948082
>>16948082
Just men ?
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>>16948082
>The only surefire way for me to be romantically interested in a guy is if we were already friends in the first place.
Nice bait, OP.
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>>16948369

You've seen her one time in over a year? Why are you even thinking about this girl?

She doesn't like you. Probably doesn't even want to be your friend. Let it go.
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>>16948375
Ya, thought the same and that was/is the reason why I don't contact her.
It somehow hurts to see how she acted and acts now.
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>>16948375
>>16948336
>>16948311
ITT: Chauvinistic manchildren
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I agree OP, I don't get it either.
I've never been attracted to a guy I haven't been friends with for at least a year beforehand.
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>>16948082
I got rejected by a friend. She even called me a "good friend" when she did so, and a "nice guy" too. I am very much in the conventional "friend zone" as people define it.

The way I used to look at it was it was bullshit - beta guys expecting girls to repay friendliness with sex. They're not in a "friend zone", she just isn't attracted to them. Women should be allowed friends whom they aren't dating.

The thing is though, I'm not even in the "friend zone". I'm a good acquaintance. When I think of what I define as a "good friend", I think of my friends I play video games with, go places with, talk with on a regular basis, even hang out with one on one. With her though, we only talk in groups and in class and that's it. It hurts because I know if she was a guy we have so much in common we wouls be best friends. I want to actually be in the real "friend zone" because I would love to be genuine friends with her.

That can't happen though. She's leaving soon, and I will never see her again. When she goes, she'll forget me quickly. I also know she has her "real friends" back home, I am not one of them. I am someone she probably wouldn't hang out with if we weren't forced to be in each other's company as we are.

When I talk to her, i just want to be closer to her, to get to know her better, but I can feel a wall of my own personal inadequacy and her detachedness in the way and we may be officially "good friends" but we may as well be strangers.

I could approach her, tell her I want to be genuine friends, but there's no way I can actually keep up that friendship due to distance and because I asked her out she will probably always be on her guard in case I am going to try something again.

Asking her out was the only way I knew of as a guy that could ensure I could see her as much as I wanted to, and be a true "good friend". Right now I'm mot a friend, I'm just some autistic beta pining for a girl who doesn't even like him as a friend that much anyway.
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>>16948390

How is that chauvinistic?
She's either crazy shy or she isn't into him.

I didn't call her a dumb whore and high five him.
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>>16948404
>Right now I'm mot a friend, I'm just some autistic beta pining for a girl who doesn't even like him as a friend that much anyway.

And that is the "friend zone" to a T.

Guys put themselves in dumb places because they can't/wont wake up and move on.
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>>16948404
Cont: I should also say that I can't make it clear enough just how bad it hurts to know there is nothing you can do to make someone attracted to you.

When I met her last year I was starting to make changes in my life, losing weight, improving my appearance. I thought "fuck, why couldn't I have met you years from now when I would be ready?" - So I went into overdrive trying to be someone she could want. I kept losing weight and exercising every day, I got skinny, i tried to learn to drive, I changed my wardrobe completely. I worked as hard as I possibly could, but it wasn't enough. I knew she was going to say no but I never felt like that about a girl before and I had to try, but I failed.

I sat with her last night with our friends talking normally but inside I was dying, thinking of all the stupid shit I was saying, how I was still such an autist. She's not even that hot by my other friends' standards but last night it was very clear to me she was very much out of my league as a prospect both for romance and friendship.

It really hurts to know there's nothing you can do to get what you want, no matter how hard you try.
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>>16948427
How exactly do you wake up and move on? I would very much like to know
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I met a cute girl once, it would have been nice to have been friends,she thought I wanted to date her or something. I'm not good at socializing so I told her to leave me alone


Does anyone else get that? There's an attractive girl but you don't feel like dating them?

But I guess I am kind of a homo :/

Alot of things could mess up a relationship op but alot of the time men talk to women for dating or their friend group to find a date
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>>16948244
>I'm pansexual

Can't roll my eyes hard enough.
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>>16948375
I'm going through this right now with a girl I'm crazy about and that really fucking hurts. The worst "friend zone" situations are ones in which there is no friendship, only social curteousy.
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You aren't a men till you've been friendzoned. It's a shitty right of passage.

Happens to all men at least once, and it sucks.
Mainly because when it happens you believed all the bullshit about being "nice"and "respecting women" only to find out she'd rather be with somneone who beats on her and cheat on her or some shit like that.

You become her shoulder to cry on, and endure listening to her talk shit about all these guys she's fucking who she thinks are all better than you.

That drug dealer she's seein'? Yeah, she thinks he's better than you because she gave him a chance.
Her abusive ex? Yeah, he's a better man then you too.
Her daddies pedo friend that fucked her when she was just 15, and cheated on his wife? Well, yeah, he's better too. In fact, despite being a kiddy fiddler and a guy who'll cheat on his wife "He's really nice once you get to know him".

Friend-zoning is when you find out just how worthless you are to a girl who means more to you than anything.

It's a situation where the best possible outcome is to cut-contact and ghost her - otherwise you're doomed to suffer forever.
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>>16948082
Females make for worthless friends since they have zero concept of loyalty or honour, so the only reason men associate with them is sexual interest or for networking purposes. It is assumed that you know this, thus if you return displays of personal kindness unbefitting of a networking relationship, it is assumed you know it's sexual and are reciprocating. If you then turn tail and refuse further sexual advances, it's evident you are just using the advancer for spurious reasons.
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>>16948586
>what is a self-fulfilling prophecy
>what is setting yourself up for failure
>>
there's friend-zone and then there's friend-zoned
not the same thing
one you go out and do stuff together, and if neither are seeing someone else at the time you might even netflix each other

the other, you help her pay for groceries so she can cook chad a candlelight spaghetti and meet balls, and she doesn't even save you a slice of garlic bread.

one is really a friend, the other is using you

one is honest that you like each other
but you're both still going to school and are smart enough to know that you don't know what you want to do with the whole rest of your life, and don't want to commit to a failure and it's too soon to tell

the other is a lying bitch
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>>16948082
It's an ugly situation.

Noone likes being turned down. I find that women in general love to start here but rarely delve deep into just how much this sucks. Possibly because western society still views the idea of women asking men out as a cute aberration relegated to Sadie Hawkins dances and similar events, but still. I have only known one woman to ask a man out, and I married her. Maybe I need to get out more.

Dating friends is simultaneously the worst idea ever and the only way to be seen as a romantic interest in many circles. It's the equivalent of taking your life savings to Vegas and putting it all on black at the roulette wheel. Sure, you could win big. But you could also end up penniless.

(Usually western)Society sends out a lot of mixed messages and nowhere are they more mixed than with dating. If you want to be the individual who starts with "friends first" then that's fine, but it's a heavy burden to minister to a friend that you hurt intentionally (yes I realize how that sounds but you are indeed intentionally hurting them when you tell them you aren't interested, much like a surgeon is actually cutting into you when removing your appendix - it's better to own up to what you are doing and the pain you are causing than to deny it).
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>>16948197
Because, contrary to romantic fiction, being an asshole when you meet someone rarely if ever results in a romantic interlude.
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traditionally guys courted girls for years.
this often meant 2 or 3+ guys all at the same time competing against one another for a girl's affections. openly, publicly, not cheating around behind someone's back.

Sometimes the dudes would fight each other, but mostly they just tried harder and harder to impress her. working out, making more money, proving themselves.
She would pick the best one, and the others would go away.
Throughout the courtship, you were in friend zone. You would go out on dates, and get to know each other. Until you were eliminated, or maybe chosen.

today it's just a coin toss who you marry
you don't need to get to know them
you can just get divorced if it doesn't work
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>>16948613
I don't think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at all; people like me don't fall into the friend zone, because we don't let ourselves be put there.

It's people who are unaware, naive about females that get friend-zoned. It's worth noting that thugs and roughs rarely have difficulty finding a lay, but nice guys often do. Women don't want to fuck nice guys, they want to fuck exciting guys. Nice guys aren't exciting. Women are of course too blind or too dishonest to admit that they don't want nice guys, and try to say that they're not really nice.
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>>16948082

You have no idea how terrible, and awful it feels to like a girl, be good friends with her. But then know she's taking dick from other people.

That is the most cold, bitter feeling in the world. And I live through that hell ever single day. I think I might end my life soon Tbh. I feel sick from this shit
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>>16948684
>I believe "females" are disloyal and insincere
>So I only approach them with disloyalty and insincerity
Uh-huh.
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today's manchildren have been coddled by their mommies. they've been misled to believe that girls should just love them for who they are.
stop laughing, this is an epidemic
200 lbs overweight, and still looking for his true love, who accepts him and all his flaws just like mommy did.

Today's girls have been brought up wrong too.
they've lost the art of making things with their own to hands. it's too easy to just go to a store and buy one. they want prince charming in a box, overlooking all the diamonds in the rough around them.
completely incapable of standing behind a man, and building a life together, supportive of one another. she just expects him to magically transform into perfect, and expresses her disappointment when he doesn't.
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>>16948737

The sad thing is, even guys who have everything together- good job, good clothes, decent shape still can't get girls, or well, girls they want. Or even a chance.

I'm no 10/10. So I don't go after 8/10+ because I know that's out of my league. I go for normal looking girls. and I still can't even get dates. I have a good paying job, nice car, nice clothes and watch. I workout a few times a week (I'm a naturally skinny guy, but since I've been working out I am starting to develop and and my arms show tone now). And girls just are not interested in me. I've worked for every single thing I have. Nothing has been given to me. But this is just something I can't get. I'm about to give up
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>>16948749

It's possible you're a douche.
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>>16948751

no, I think the problem is I'm a nice guy. I've had girls tell me "you're a really nice guy". And apperently that's a bad thing
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>>16948768

I say that to guys who are nice but also unacceptable in some way. Like annoying, or unattractive in some other way.
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>>16948768
No, you're a douche, and the social mores that expect girls to not actually come out and say to you that "you're a fucking douche" means that they have to say you're a nice guy but I am just not attracted to you.

Look, have you ever watched that episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where this girl was being ignored into invisibility, and the "proof" of her being ignored was a yearbook full of "Have a nice summer" from her classmates because nobody even knew her name or what she was like and therefore didn't have anything else to say to her? No? Well there's an episode like that. And I'm saying, them saying you're a nice guy is like that yearbook full of "have a nice summer". They don't actually mean that. They mean "I don't want to look like a douchebag for not signing this yearbook but I don't really fucking know you".
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>>16948773

Well that's rude, I'd rather a girl say "I'm sorry but I'm just not interested"
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>>16948777

Nice trips. But I'm actually not a douche. Believe me, it's not easy for me to say a lot of good things about myself. But when it comes to others, I really am a nice guy. I'm the guy that people come to when they are unsure about something or when they need help. I've had people I don't even know that well open up to me about their problems or just their life and tell me really personal things. If I was a douche people wouldn't do that.
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>>16948749
you seem to focus a lot on your appearance
you said clothes more than once
clothes don't make the man
you said watch. as if your phone doesn't tell the time
however many hours you spend looking in a mirror each day, subtract 23.75

start focusing on your personality
smile and laugh a lot. be happy
frowny bling guy is unattractive

don't think that you can't get a 10
you have to believe you can
just to get a 6

but you have to start with a 3
and work your way up

single well dressed guy is unattractive

girls need approval of other girls
if you're with another girl, you must be ok
if not forget it
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>>16948782
You personally may rather a girl say "I am sorry but I am just not interested". As a girl with many years of experience in saying "I am sorry but I am just not interested", this usually elicits a response of "well then how can I make you become interested in me". And since that's being condescending towards me about my ability to make up my mind on my own goddamn interests, the conversation can only go downhill from there.

>>16948796
Adolf Hitler had a great dental and childcare plan and believed in a plant-based diet. Kim Jong Un fucking LOVES children and has made fantastic headways in revolutionizing early childhood education, theme parks and playgrounds, as well as medical aid and nutritional support for children. Nevertheless.

The point isn't whether you are a _generally_ nice guy. The point is that you are a douchebag for the purposes of relationships.
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>>16948809

I am extremely self concious about my appearance. I used to just dress in a t shirt and jeans every single day. Then some friends told me I need to change up my style. So they helped my choose new clothes and shit.

>girls need approval of other girls. If you're with another girl you are ok, if not forget it

That sounds really complicated
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>>16948817

Explain how I am a douche? Because that literally makes no sense
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>>16948826
I don't know. I would really have to get to know you at least as much as the other women who rejected your advances in the past have gotten to know you.

All I can really tell you are the circumstances that led to me rejecting someone in the past with "you're a nice guy" and secretly thinking "this fucking douche" and for you to draw your own conclusions from that. Would that be helpful to you?
>>
>>16948821
it's not complicated.

married men are the most attractive thing ever, to a woman. 65% won't even let that ring stop them from trying.

find a hungry 3, and ask her can i buy you lunch for an experiment? I'm not looking to hookup, it for school.

sit and talk about whatever topic
something that you can talk about for 30 minutes and keep the conversation going

look around the room
notice more girls looking at you than ever before.
>>
>>16948837
you're a nice guy, but...
i like girls
i'm hiv positive
>>
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>tfw never been friend zoned
A girl tried it on me once, told her I didn't love her anymore and she freaked out and started crying for some reason. I ended up snatching her up later when she broke up with her boyfriend. Funny how that works
>>
>>16948841
>a hungry 3
what's that?
>>
>>16948841

That sounds stupid, no.
>>
>>16948821
I tell my wingman he looks good in a wifebeater.
>>
>>16948863
a 3/10 that hasn't had lunch, and her breakfast is starting to wear off.
>>
So, I'll admit that I used to think the friendzone was a thing. Some weird box that women put you in after a certain point, certain fuckup, whatever. As I've gotten older, it's clear that it's not that simple.

I have a ton of friends who are girls. I don't, and never have, considered that the friendzone. As far as I know, our relationship is 100% platonic and I'm cool with that. A lot of them are attractive, but I know enough about them that dating them or fucking them sounds like an awful idea.

But then there's distinct other situations - where you realize as a guy that you DO like one of these friends, but you're so far deep into that platonic zone that you're fucked. You've established a brotherly relationship at this point, and even though you two are compatible as friends, she's never going to reciprocate the feelings. In the meantime, you get to watch her date other dudes until you get over it. Similarly, there's the regret of meeting a girl, not telling her how you feel right off the bat, and letting it slip into a situation where she thinks your intentions are different.

I'm not mad at the girl in any of these cases, but it still sucks.
>>
>>16948859
Those are not the situations in which I would be secretly thinking "this fucking douche". At least keep the fucking flow of the thread when you attempt to troll, please.
>>
>>16948875

That's a dick move
>>
>>16948889
you don't use the, "not into dudes" line on douches?
that's like the ultimate ego destroyer, that douches deserve

like saying "I don't think the 3 minutes in bed with you would be worth having to take a shower over, sorry"
>>
>>16948864
Maybe the way to get the attention of other girls isn't the "best" but it's true, experienced it too.
>be me at a restaurant with friends
>be a group of girls sitting at a table next to us
>sit exactly between male friends and female friends
>talk, make jokes and tease female friends (topics of males where boring)
>notice all girls at the other table are looking a me
>notice even my male friends are looking regularly over to us
>>
>>16948914
I don't know what kind of fantasy league playoffs that kind of line comes from, but in reality, women get raped and murdered by guys they rejected. That is part of a huge consideration on why I or any other woman would not say something like that.
>>
>>16948082
We live in a world where, even when equality is supposed to be hip, men still do most of the approaching. Besides, most women (there are exceptions, of course) expect men to still pay for lunch, drive them home, etc, even if it's just a friendship.

If women really wanted a friendship, they would definitely refuse being driven home, gifts, and free lunch, coffee, etc.

I hardly ever pay for my friend's lunch or coffee, so if people are just friends, why not sticking to the same rules?
>>
>>16948898
no it's true he really does. he brings lots of girls to the table
I was suggesting that you might not want to put too much stock in your virgin friend's wardrobe choices.
>>
>>16948933
and here I thought I was a douche. maybe I really am surrounded by lesbians.
>>
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Can anyone explain to me what they mean by "graph the combined function"?

I know a composite function embeds the range of one function into the domain of another, but earlier they draw a pretty clear line between composite and combined functions: combined being where you "combine" different functions with standard operators
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>>16948938
good luck with not paying, if you're a man
>>
Because getting a girl is hard work and the concept of work not being rewarded is worth getting angry about. If someone does the work and then gets told "nah you're not getting paid" then they ok fuck off then.

>The only surefire way for me to be romantically interested in a guy is if we were already friends in the first place.

Chances are you already know whether you would or not. People accept dates from a single encounter or a picture on the internet.
>>
>>16948984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8E0cG3Dww8
>>
>>16948949

My friends are either in relationships or married. They suggested I get some nice button down shirts and better fitted jeans
>>
Most guys got vaccinated when they were babies, and that mercury damaged their brains in the region responsible for masculinity. They're practically girls anyway so why not bff them? But remember not to talk to them about guys, like you would a girl bff. It causes them emotional distress, torn by their inner secret desires for manly men themselves.
other girl topics are cool, just don't tempt them or they will get analfrustrated
>>
>>16948216
Going up to a girl an brusquely informing her that you two are now dating doesn't work either.

Everything positive starts with being nice. Sometimes I wish it were otherwise.
>>
>>16948082
they feel
>misunderstood
they feel
>giving attention and "being nice" backfired
they feel
>a douchebag or "wrong" guy wins
they feel
>she took advantage of his acts of "niceness" without giving love in return.

in stereotypical scenarios the girl would complain about men being asholes and cheating on her and such, while the guy feels
>he would never do that
and
>he'd always be there for her

meanwhile they feel
>she has to only accept one of the many guys offering themselves
while
>he has to prove himself
He has to constantly balance between being too carefull/distant and being too close and a creep.

this can be very frustrating, to the point where such a guy projects his frustration on womyn and starts to vent it on forums.

meanwhile he doesn't see
>he didn't do anything to show his interest
>loves an image of the girl in his head but barely knows the real person
>out of nowhere "confesses" his feelings without considering hers
>he probably likes her for being aproachable rather than compatible
>love is not an exchange of "niceness tokens" for sex
>she may want a person who's interesting to get to know, and has interesting oppinions and ideas rather than just pretending to agree with her.
>who's interested in her as a person and not just bombarding her with random "acts of nicenes

meanwhile a similar list of misconceptions can be made about girls who are dissapointed in men. Love is just a complicated process that takes some painfull and humiliating lessons to get involved in.
>>
>>16948427
Your silence beyond this condemnation speaks far louder than any advice ever could. You must be fun at funerals.
>>
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>>16949011
yeah, nobody looks good in ill-fitting jeans.
>>
>>16948657
This is the plot line of a romance comic from the 70s, not based in any reality. Girls knew, and still know, who they desire out of a group of suitors. It's just more acceptable to turn down a guy to his face today with little or no reason than it was in times past
>>
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>>16949046
Oh gosh, the first 2/3 was me and I'm a bit surprised.

>>she may want a person who's interesting to get to know, and has interesting opinions and ideas rather than just pretending to agree with her.
>>who's interested in her as a person and not just bombarding her with random "acts of niceness"
stopped this even before and this is important: It will enable a friendship in which both are honest and can have real sympathy to each other.
>>
>>16948689
She can take dick from whomever she wishes.

However, the real issue here is whether or not your dick was in the circle jerk. It sounds like it wasn't and never was. Did she lead you to believe otherwise? If so, then that isn't okay, and you should live your life to spite her, not end it and prove she was right to never consider you.
>>
>>16949042
being nice is necessary, but not nicer than to people in general, she's a human being, not a trophy.
Be interested, try to find out what drives her, what occupies her mind, be honest and ready to dispute her oppinions like wiht a real person and not a trophy.
Add in playfull hints that she's not just a friend (body language, jokes, touching)
Also at some point you need to evaluate whether it's going anywhere. If the dynamic stays the same for a longer time, it's just not gonna happen. There's simply no point in building a friendship and hoping to become lovers from there, it's not fair to her either to lead her into a friendship when that's not what you want.
>>
>>16948700
You get what you put in/serve what you have received.
>>
>>16948777
That girl ended up becoming a psychotic killer. Is that what you want to happen here?
>>
>>16949042
actually it does work that way. Sometimes I don't even say a word to a girl. Like if i'm at a party, I just put out my hand for some girl. She take it, and I pull her to her feet, and I lead her off to the bedroom. then after the deal is done, i tell her "you is MY (emphasis added) girlfriend now" we come out an hour later her old boyfriend still be sittin on the couch in the same spot, still trying to comprehend.
>>
>>16949081
I agree with you. But it can be the other way around: Having a female friend and then (out of nowhere or because something happens/changed) she becomes "interesting" and more than a friend.
>>
>>16949101
does your name happen to be OGFurious?
>>
>>16949108
can happen, but that wouldn't be something to be buthurt about right? you become interested in her, you make a move and it either works or it doesn't. sucks to lose a friendship like that and all.

What I think happens way more often, and is the type of event the meme and this tread refers to is that the guy either wants more out of the friendship from the beginning, OR as you suggest suddenly, but he carries on as normal trying to "upgrade" from friendship to love by throwing niceness at her.
>>
>>16948624
Listen to this guy, anons... he knows what's up
>>
>>16948768
Ye just try to stop doing that and you should have more success. It's not a quality modern woman wants from their boyfriend, maybe when you are thirty and they are looking for a provider to their children, but I assume you are fairly young here.
>>
If you get mad about a girl being happy, even if it means she's with another man, then you never truly loved her or cared for her at all. You selfishly wanted her all to yourself, and you deserved to get cucked like that.
>>
>>16949187
It sounds like you want to show how bad a man can be. But I would like to suggest, so other might take it as a tip, that this is a great way to handle friendships. It can happen that a person isn't good with feelings or is young and need to understand what is happening. He (or she) should focus on why he is feelings this way and what he wants. Then overcome/solve this.
Instead of being selfish it is better to treat friends/others as you would like to be treated.
>>
>>16948938
what kind of loser seriously even considers doing all these things for a person they're not dating, except maybe once when they've honestly forgotten theyr wallet or something?
Hell I've never even offered a date more than two drinks before she got me some, you're actively bringing yourself down by doing that stuff whilst at the same time objectifying her, portraying her as a trophy rather than a person.
>>
>>16949187
Actually, seeing someone you love be happy with another person is a legit punch to the face. Because you want to be the one who makes them smile, cheer up, brighten their day, to be someone they can depend on, someone important and of personal significance to them, &c. And seeing someone else being able to give that to them is simply a huge heartbreak that makes you feel like you failed someone who means so much to you; and that you'll never be anything of worth to them.
>>
>>16949101
That doesn't really work well either. She doesn't have to take you up on your latter offer.
>>
>>16949227
>It sounds like you want to show how bad a man can be

I'm nonjudgmental. But if I had to answer, I'd say that men have gotten better, not worse. Less than a hundred years ago, a marriage license, was a certificate of ownership to a slave. Women gained their freedom, and pretend to be seeking equality, but today a marriage license is a certificate of ownership of a man.
>>
>>16949276
>Actually, seeing someone you love be happy with another person is a legit punch to the face.

My first love was in second grade. Her name was Lisa. We ate lunch together. My family moved away, and I never saw her again. My love for her will never change. Punch in the face or not, I sincerely hope she's happy wherever she is today.

Love is not conditional, based on a return on investment.
>>
>>16948082
I get why this may be difficult for some girls to understand, but "friend-zoned" rarely ever means "we're just friends and he doesn't like that". Friend-zoned generally means "he does all the things I would expect a boyfriend to do, but I don't fuck him".

Guys don't treat female friends they want to fuck the same way they treat their guy friends. If most women were honest, if a guy did that, they wouldn't probably want to be "friends" with him. So they know that he wants something more, and they continue the "friendship" because of what they want to get out of it (boyfriend minus commitment and sex) and being able to have an acceptable backup waiting around for them. For some reason it is extremely easy for a lot of women to deny that they are doing this with a guy, even to themselves.

So it's not "a friendship" in the traditional sense, which is why you can't compare guys "being friends" to a guy and girl "being friends". It's generally a very different dynamic and in some ways is pretty dishonest.
>>
>>16948197
let's first agree that what the meme refers to with friendzone is not "friendship"
What you describe, I can imagine is quite frustrating, my GF often tells me how she often got frustrated by the same thing and thus decided to go for more female friends.

I do think the cause of this problem lies on both your (the girls) inability to see trough "acts of niceness". Perhaps wishfull thinking plays a role here, if someone is being nice to you, agrees with everything, listens to you and pays for your drinks, it's much more convenient to think of him as a friend than as a "clumsy lover". No matter how much you may want honest male friends (and it's not entirely imposible) you will have to include this form of motivation as one of the options and exclude that as a posibility before accepting ones friendship in order to avoid further dissapointment.

Meanwhile much has been written about the male perspective here, men simply have to learn to be honest about their intentions. Dating someone, getting to know them and such is a process that doesn't go easy to everyone so it makes sense that some guys make mistakes here. I think one of the key elements is having to balance between being invisible and being a creep. Many guys have simply been thought that all those things that indicate love as opposed to friendship are "bad mkay", they're afraid to make a move and afraid initiate physical contact. so to them it seems most logical to just stick around untill she makes a move.

It sucks for both sides but the good thing is: most learn it eventually. many adults who are happily married have their memories of awkward situations in their late teens and early 20s. only they didn't cirklejerk their POV on forums like these.
>>
>>16949346
Thrust me, girls are not as calculative about it as you think. as I've stated in>>16949359 they honestly believe it is real friendship, if only cause nice things are easy to believe no matter how unreal it seems from an outside perspective.

and again, it's not like she's forcing you to do all these things. learn from this and don't be that cuck. don't take it as a reason to go full on bad-guy cause that backfires just as hard. Just make your intentions clear, it's that easy.
>>
>>16949346
Beyond that, it's interesting that modern women are so concerned with "power dynamics" in every aspect of their lives, but don't see it in this one. It's generally not ever an equal power dynamic in a "friend-zone" situation. The woman has all the power there, and usually she knows it, but continues the unequal relationship and then bitches about why guys expect pussy when they're friends. The complaints about this are ridiculous. You know you're not "just friends" and that you get more than that from the relationship, but you make memes about "gets mad when doesn't get pussy". At that point you're essentially making fun of your "friend" for being a normal human being and developing feelings for someone he enjoys being around and then not wanting to continue catering to that person when they don't want to reciprocate. It's ridiculous.

This is essentially the same as the old "he fucks me but never calls me back". You put out there what you think he wants, but he never reciprocates what you want (initiating a relationship). It's perfectly ok for women to complain about this, but somehow not ok for men to complain about essentially the same thing on the other side. I imagine this is why men are so reactive to it.
>>
>>16949369
>not like she's forcing you to do all these things

Again, this also is a reason for such a negative reaction. Essentially, guys that have this issue are being told, "well it's your fault because you did it, she isn't forcing you to" then in the same breath are being told "but if you stop being friends because of it, you're an asshole". That's pretty frustrating I imagine.
>>
>>16948082
You got to grab life by the balls. I see people bitch and complain constantly saying there friend zoned. Well that could of been avoided ages ago if you just asked her out. I see all the nice guys sit there, bitching and wining because women don't like em. 1. Get to know them: talk, etc etc. 2. Do this till you know them well enough. 3. Ask her out. It's not that hard to do it. I mean the worst she can say is no and it indicates where you stand with the person. Isn't it better to man up and ask then sit there guessing the entire time and whinning like a little bitch as she gets plowed by guys who had the balls to ask her out? There's a lot of nice guys willing to complain but when push comes to shove won't do shit. Confidence is a sexy thing. Practice it. No one wants to be with a cuck.
>>
It's attention deficit. Which for those who don't know, does not mean a lack of focus, it means can't see the forest for the tree.

Little Billy sees a girl and says "I want that one" he doesn't know anything about her, except the one thing that caught his attention. Maybe it was her looks, maybe it was they way she picked a booger. For some reason he fixated and doesn't care about anything else.
It's only a matter of time before the oopma loompas will have to roll billy off to the squeezing machine. He can't take no for an answer, that is if he even had the courage to ask. Communication isn't necessary, he already knows all he needs to know about her, her answers to any questions would probably conflict with his mental image of her and be counterproductive. He thinks he's in love.

A guy who's not as mentally ill comes around and starts talking to her. He has other interests besides her. He's fascinating, she agrees to go out with him. Billy cries himself to sleep, and dreams about what her and the bad man are doing together. Billy wakes up with a gooey wet spot in his undies.
>>
>>16949430
Spot on. Well played senpai!
>>
>>16949430
100% true
not going to help those involved cause they won't be receptive to such a clear short wording without regard for their POV. but true none the less.
>>
>>16949385
>"but if you stop being friends because of it, you're an asshole"
if you weren't really friends then it's not more asshole to stop it than it allready was in the first place.

> That's pretty frustrating I imagine.
it is, that's why you only do that once as a teen, learn and move on. not whine about how evil womyn are on internet to create a circlejerk that gets people to believe womyn trap "nice guys" like that on purpose.
aaand yes i've been there too, once....
>>
>>16949527
Ever thought about that a woman doesn't want what you described? She wants to feel loved, but also desired and wanted.
I don't think she wants to treated like a child, but like a person and a desirable woman.
>>
>>16949527

Aw, I would kind of like this. Except I'm also a little egotistical and career driven. So if you could be this way and keep me on a pedestal and admire my rad job skills I'd keep you.
>>
>>16949572
haha, thank you, obviously I would love that
>>
>>16949586

I have extremely long hair and a pretty specific routine. It's big time drain for me to scalp massage, preen, and treat the length. It'd be great to have someone who really appreciated it to help me out.

I'm sure we wouldn't really be able to try it out even if we did start talking, but it's a nice thought. I hope you can bump into someone who appreciates your type of love.
>>
>>16949597
you never know, my kik is dyingtolive86. i look like a fairly fit regular guy.

And I'd love that. I think women are beautiful and I appreciate the lengths they go to to maintain that beauty, and I would help in whatever ways I can, though you'd likely have to show me how to do it properly and how to be gentle and everything. But I'm very good with my hands and feel like I'd be a good candidate to learn.
>>
>>16948197
I relate to this way too much. Some dickbag former coworker keyed the shit out of my car because of this. Told him I had a boyfriend yet HE insisted on remaining friends. He stalked me at work and seemed to think that being nice to me would lead to something. When it didn't, well, my car got fucked. Watch out who you're nice to.
>>
I broke a girl's heart when I was 16. I won't make excuse for my behavior, I loved her and still do, but our relationship had limitations. When an opportunity for a better relationship arose, bastard that I am, chose to date the other girl. I never cheated, but I regret how I ended the relationship abruptly, and with honesty and integrity. I should have lied and let her down easy. At times I thought maybe cheating would have been better. Then maybe she could have gotten over me easier, but no I was nice and did the friend zone thing. At first she screamed that she never wanted to see me again. If the d was off the table, she didn't want to be friends. She turned slut quickly, and again I won't lie, it hurt, knowing that it was my fault. I wasn't there for her when she needed me. Not that I would have cheated on my new GF, but I would have been her friend, if she hadn't hated me. Eventually she got over her anger, and called me wanting to talk. She was crying, and made it me feel awful, so i went to talk with her. But it turned out to be a ruse. She was just trying to get in my pants, and god I was embarrassed for her, humiliating herself like that. Begging on her knees, clinging to my leg like a koala bear. Telling me that none of these other guys were as good as I was, by name, and there were a lot of them.
It was nauseating, but I was her friend, and wanted to be there for her, but I wouldn't cheat on my new gf, and she only wanted one thing from me. She wouldn't respect boundaries, at all. Kept putting her hands on me and trying to climb in my map. I was ok with sitting shoulder to shoulder, letting her hit me, letting her vent, but not leading her on. She exhausted herself beating on me, and then calmed down, and composed herself. I was willing to be friends, and my gf trusted me completely, but the ex just wanted to get back together, and or hate me. Then she started drinking, and drugs, and getting mixed up with bad people, rehab, jail.
>>
>>16949754
Obviously things would have been different if I had made other choices. Not breaking up in the first place. Maybe none of this would have happened. Don't ever think women are all alike, I know each are as unique as fingerprints. These two in my story couldn't be more opposite in so many ways, but this can't be traced back to a gene. I caused this. She was not genetically predisposed to becoming a serial killer. That's on me, and the friend zone. Jealousy, rage... these things are nurture not nature. My sin visited upon, someone I loved. But there are some thing, which seem from all my research to be more instinct than anything else. inherent in self-preservation women tend to want a protector. This need overrides better judgement sometimes. Such as battered-woman syndrome. Staying in an abusive relationship.
again, not all women do, there are some environmental modifiers. But lets bring this back to the friend zone. Where a woman needs a protector, and isn't happy with her relationship. She does not end it so quickly.
Nearly all women find a replacement before they break up with a man. Cheating may or may not have occurred in the process. The monkey will not let go of one branch, until it has it's hand firmly on another.
The safety net of keeping men on the back burner. Keeping guys in the friend zone. Potential replacements. It is their nature.
>>
>>16948082
>Why do men get so dramatic, harsh, and hostile about either being "friend-zoned," other guys getting friend-zoned, or just the subject in general?
Hardly exclusive to guys, desu. Plenty of women get overly dramatic when a guy isn't brimming with cheer after being turned down. (And quite a few women launch their own rants after being on the receiving end, though they're thankfully rarer.)
Anyway I think the reason is it's always THE SAME guys that get that line, since it's the result of their timid personality. So it's like a blister, they get sensitive to that shit because they keep hearing it.
I mean, there's a reason it has a name in the first place, namely because it happens so much.
>>
>>16949964
Can we honestly blame women for something that is not entirely within her control? We can hook a woman up to monitors, and parade a series of different men in front of her, measuring her biological response, which sometimes conflict with her thought processes. Regardless of what she might think of a guy, her body reaches out to a protector. Her body responds more in tune with her brain on what is attractive, and who is a good provider. These biological imperatives seldom reside in one man. As far as these needs are concerned, her body has 3 holes to fill.
you might be a good provider, but are you able to protect her, or are you off working?
are you attractive enough that she wants to have children with you?

This is friend zone, at it's finest. 3 men in her life. One is her protector, one her provider, and one gives her a baby. She really only gets one of these votes, her body does the other voting. inb4 self control. she doesn't have to act on impulses, and definitely doesn't need to sleep with her protector, but she still needs him.
technically she doesn't need to sleep with the babymaker more than is necessary, or she could just adopt.

does mr protector like being in friend-zone if he isn't getting any? i dunno did you ask him? maybe he could handle the truth.

we humans are complex. and by that i mean we are parasites living in a host animal. we don't always listen to our bodies, and they don't always listen to us, but our symbiotic system fails hard if we don't cooperate or hate ourselves.
>>
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friendzone is lame sometimes
>>
>>16948082
>The only surefire way for me to be romantically interested in a guy is if we were already friends

which came first, friendship, or attraction?
how do we choose our friends
>>
the number one cause of divorce is unrealistic expectations.

girls (not all) expect everything to be handed to them. girls learn how to manipulate people at an early age. parents wrapped around their little finger before their 2nd birthday.

they grow up getting everything they want
and being spoiled. they come to expect this and use these particular skills to get the things that aren't just automatically handed to them.

my cousin just got married and divorce.
dude was a tool
she thought that getting married was a magical thing, and it meant a house and babies, and a puppy.
huge expensive wedding and honeymoon didn't help. come home from a 5star hotel to his mom's basement. could have used that wedding money as a down-payment on a house instead of renting chairs

did i mention moldy basement. she was miserable with him. you and I know it was just allergies, but that's not how most people saw it.
her puffy swollen eyes were definite signs of abuse. lots of friends gave her unsolicited advice, and opinions about her husband.
she was a tool too.
called it off temporarily, and went back to her room at mommy's
not really, but that's what she told him
just temporary, while you get your life together, and get us a place of our own.
she didn't mean it, he got zoned
she learned from her mistake
and set out to find herself a rich guy
while hubby took a second job to save up for a house.
she cheated, man already had a house
and a wife and kids but those are mere obstacles, right?
try try again
her hubby gets a promotion, but has to quit second job
she lets hubby sleep over
finds flirty text from his boss on his phone.
doesn't mean anything, that just how some women get to be executives. he's not the one who cheated, but her guilt doesn't believe that.
>>
>>16948223
>It's being stuck as just friends with someone you're in love with, which is a constant and personal hell to go through

Then stop your agony and stop pretending they're your friends cause deep down you know they weren't. You were just pretending hoping to earn XP for her to take off her clothes for you.
>>
>>16948082

>How to avoid le dreaded friendzone

>Not be a coward
If you see a girl you find cute/like go talk to her. I know, sounds easier said than done. I saw five smoking girls yesterday and I didn't say words to them cause I'm a big coward and quite frankly they intimidated me by how hot they were. They kept making eye contact me as if thinking "Hey dummy what are you waiting for?" and I didn't make a move. I was being a coward and lied to myself that it wasn't worth the hassle.

>Not be a beta

That twisting knot in your stomach? Yeah that one, that's okay but dont let it become a habit. Being a beta is pretending to be her friend hoping that if you pretend to care enough she'll reward you eventually. Being a beta is also getting mad if she doesn't text back or overly fixated, I asked out some girls I knew out for coffee, 3 months later that "seen" sign still looms. It hurt my ego but it's whatever move on.

>Be forward with your intentions

There's this meme that you gotta treat girls like a lady and tip your fedora at them, but the truth is girls want to feel desired. Make them feel desirable, worst that can happen is she walks away, says no, gives you a fake number, gives you a real number but flakes, says yes, says yes and the date is awful, or says yes and the date leads to a relationship. Doing something is better than doing nothing.

>Apply the Brad Pitt rule

This one is really simple. Imagine the girl you like has made plans with you and you're Brad Pitt. Would she honor those plans? If she really can't see you on Friday, will she call you and tell you she can't and suggest a later date or will she say her cat died and she needs to grieve for 2 months? Your time is important, have some self respect, honor your commitments, if a girl cancels on you don't be mad, if she cancels on you and makes more excuses then respect yourself as a person.

I know, tl;dr but I hope even one male reads this and benefits from it.
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>>16952106
you can't just turn love off like a switch
it's going to be painful
love is a part of you that can't just be ripped out without consequences. some people don't survive a lovendectomy under the best of circumstances. it's not covered by obamacare

you guy do what you gotta do, but i'm not getting my love removed. i worked too hard
twice as hard as she did, and i only got paid 10% more than her. I'm keeping that love.
I earned it. She can do what she wants with hers. i don't care. hers is corrupted and has some dude's cooties on it. i don't want her love anymore. i only want cootiefree virgin love, like my mom makes.
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>>16952136

That is a load of bull. This is especially true when you've not known the person longer than a few months, and if you have and you haven't let them know you like them then that's your fault.

People need to let go of what I like to call the Michael Cera syndrome where they think if they orbit a girl long enough some day they'll end up loving them. Life isn't the movies.

You literally sound like a psychopath and if you said those words to her she'd be wise in never speaking to you again.

5/10 cause I feel this is some /r9k/ pasta.
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>>16948082
A lot of men feel entitled to a woman or a woman's company after having made some percieved investment in the relationship. Which isn't how friendships should work, let alone romantic relationships... It's fucked up, let's be real guys. It's idiotic to essentially put so much of your own self-worth into a person who you don't even know if you can get along with, let alone who WANTS to get alone with you. You're setting yourself up for failure. "The Friendzone," as a guy who's currently worried that his friend is going to turn into a spree-shooter for this very entitlement/persecution complex, is something that looks residual to me of people who can't accept a declined offer.
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>>16952136
>>16952142
As mental as this all sounds, that's exactly where my friend's at currently. "I put in so much effort into something no one asked for, I deserve something for it, my girl, who is somehow mine, has been corrupted by another man, I've been wronged," Jesus Christ like its pasta but it's mostly real shit...
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>>16952142
orbiting a girl has it's perks. friend-zone 9/10
lets you view her private album. the one with bikini pics, and nipples
you never burn that bridge bro.
asking her out only leads to suicide
i get to enjoy half a relationship, with none of the relationship drama.
we just chill and do friend stuff together
i get to stare at her ass all over the mall
she tries on clothes too, and she's not all defensive, because i don't try and hit on her
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Chad here. After reading this thread I just want to apologize to all you manlets that have been crushed when i swooped your girl. No hard feelings. It wasn't personal. Definitely noting to cry about, she's used goods man. Don't get hung up on sluts like that. life is too short. peace
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>>16948082
>Why do men get so dramatic, harsh, and hostile about either being "friend-zoned," other guys getting friend-zoned, or just the subject in general?

Because it's rarely sincere. You're rejecting someone but telling them to stay upbeat about it.

You're stringing someone along, leading someone on, and giving them false hope, implying you might not reject them in the future (when you get lonely).

It's a transparent attempt by women to collect orbiters they can utilize as backup plans.
>>
don't put all your eggs in one basket
have you ever opened the refrigerator door too fast and had all the eggs fall to the floor?
yeah that never happened to me either
because i'm not immature and impulsive
i open the door nice and slow
not in a rush to get my juice
my eggs are perfectly safe in one place.

but if you're adhd and you rush in there to get your koolaid, or soda, or whatever sugary stuff it is that makes you so obnoxious
you're going to break those eggs.
so you shouldn't keep them on the refrigerator door. put some on a shelf, not the one where you keep your meth, it's still in danger there
in the back
but if you do that, don't forget them or they get rotten, and rotten eggs are no good.

what do you do if all your eggs break?
you lusted after one girl, and she laughed at you. get some paper towels and clean it up.
don't lay there rolling in broken eggs forever.
it gets rotten and makes you smell bad.
go take a shower, and on your way home from work get some new eggs. try some brown ones, or some Jumbo eggs not the same old eggs that broke on you. something new
>>
jealousy is a problem
insecure guys don't want their girlfriend to have male friends, so she has to hide them behind his back. He'd get mad, and she doesn't want that, but he hasn't given her a ring so he can't tell her what to do. asif

lose the insecurities problem solved
let her have all the guy friends she wants

seriously why can't girls have guy friends?
why does she have to be sexing every guy she knows?
and fair is fair, guys can have girl friends too
>wat hold up that cheating sob can't have girl friends
you don't trust him?
>it's them that i don't trust. girls are manstealing whores, thats all they think about but i have to blame him cuz us ho gotta stick together. inequality and all that.

good to know
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>>16948197
>I've rejected a lot of guys who I thought were my friends only to watch them scatter like roaches after they found out I wasn't interested or had a boyfriend.

That's because women are not funny, interesting, or independent thinkers.

Why would any guy want to be your friend? And no, I don't want to hear how amazing you think you are.
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>>16949042
>Everything positive starts with being nice. Sometimes I wish it were otherwise.

Why can't you just act neutral towards people and talk to them normally to get to know them better and then simply find common ground.
This is called connecting with people and it's usually the first step towards friendship and relationship.
You don't need to shower people with kindness, nice acts or compliments to get them to like you.
Just talk about stuff that both of you find interesting, share opinions, tips, suggestions and whatever.

Now once you've connected with someone and you're interested enough in them to date them you can simply say that you find them interesting and ask them out on a date.
If they say no or that they're already in a relationship, you can still be friends or acquaintances with them, just be sure to respect their decision and just move on without becoming overly attached to them.
Who knows maybe she might change her mind someday and [spoiler]ASK YOU[/spoiler] if you're still interested, but don't count on it and simply consider it as seed of possibility that may or may not sprout forward someday (it's actually not bad to have a lot of these seeds in your garden).
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>>16952339
>You're stringing someone along, leading someone on, and giving them false hope

have you ever gambled, or played the lottery?
people get strung along, and have false hopes.
for a chance at winning

asking a girl out is a gamble, a lottery ticket isn't free, you're gonna have some investment.
If she's not worth it, don't play.

If she strung you along, your ticket didn't win. step up your game. buy two tickets next time.
double your odds. she wouldn't string you along if you had no chance of winning.

start working out, get a better job, buy a house, improve your odds.

is she a jackpot or isn't she?
>>
Not all men. And also, because people are emotional.
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>>16952406
>That's because women are not... interesting

you aren't interested in girls, no shame in that
you're into dudes. it's cool just be honest with yourself.
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>>16948086
No but this is true for me too. I haven't had a lot of romantic relationtionships but all have been deep and meaningful and ended on good terms and stayed friends afterwards because I was friends with the guy/girl first and developed trust with them. I just don't understand how you can date someone who you don't already get along with as a friend. Isn't your partner supposed to be your best friend?
>>
In some countries you can still buy brides.
Parents take offers at puberty.
Highest bidder wins. Not always money, it could be something else, like pigs.
>>
>>16948317
Gosh aren't you hot stuff... lol
>>
Funny; i often have the reverse. Ive had 2 long relationships, and a reasonable rich social life. Enough friends, hobbies things to do.

After i brokeup with my ex, some of my lady friends stated some interest in hanging out etc. I took that for advances into romances, and tried to make it happen, got rejected and the girls exclaimed they truly were only looking for friendship. One just left my house, wanted to stay overnight and i thought, nice, in the bag, but turns out we just good friends and she could not do that to my "ex" since they mutual friends too.

It stung for like 5 mins, but then you move on and realize its just a lil ego bruisin.

Agree with others here, if you like someone, move fast, if they decline, atleast you know where you stand. Also, they often have qt lady friends whom they will introduce you too, since they see you looking and feel guilty about just wanting friendship themselves. Guys making it as if the girl betrayed them, really just betrayed themselves. It hurts, but the earlier you can admit this shit, the sooner you can move on and get someone who likes you for you.

Remember life ain't fair, and you don't get what you deserve, but rather what you negotiate. Learn to fucking negotiate instead of giving everything for free and then feeling butthurt. Lessons everywhere brothers.

If you negotiate properly, you can't be friendzoned, since you decide where you stand. You can get rejected, but thats life, deal with it.
>>
I have 60+ female friends
Some of them need more attention than others
so it's hard to be fair and balanced
not making some of them jealous by spending more time with others
Some want to be more than friends, and it's hard to say no. I am secretly dating a few of them, but if the others knew it would be bloody.
Why are girls so evil?
Can't I have some friends and some lovers, why does it have to be all or nothing?
>>
>>16948082
because women and western society both give extremely mixed signals to boys growing up. They tell them 'be nice to girls!' 'respect girls!' 'treat her like a lady!' etc. And when the boys hit puberty they start wanting to fuck girls and since that's what they've been taught to do they think that's how they get the pussy (spoiler: nothing dries out a vagina faster). Fight Club was right about us being a generation of men raised by women. We grow up with our female teachers treating us like defective girls. Boys acting like boys are corrected, and because we weren't raised right we become bitter, cynical misogynists. And then the smart ones just manipulate women to get what they want, and the less smart ones post on 4chan crying about it.
>>
>>16952631
equal rights
not about what you think it is
fat and ugly women want equal men
they want to be treated as beautiful too
feminists can't get a man, so they want the world to burn
>>
When a guy is friendzoned that means he loves a woman who wants to be just friends.

Which means now he's in his own personal hell of being reminded that the woman he loves doesn't feel the same way, but wants him around so she can have her came and eat it too.

The anger comes in when the man can't simply walk away because he loves her, but for some reason she wont do the selfless thing either and realize if she does care about the man just as a friend then she should stop being his friend to spare him constant pain.
>>
>>16952656
why should pretty girls get all the good men
that's not fair. it's not even logical
their good genes should breed with bad genes
to improve the species
and the males with good genes go with the females with the worst genes
true equality
>>
>>16952704
your logic is flawed
you implied that the species is improved by averaging offspring but even that is untrue

your plan ensures that all offspring get defective genes. that does not improve the species, it ensures it's extinction

your plan is also racist. implying that some races need improving
>>
>>16948185
>And even if they don't become romantic, what's wrong with having friends-who-are-girls?
Nothing…as long as you're able to enter into an exclusive relationship with girls as well. When all you ever do is become their friend…that begins to take its toll over time
>>
>>16948197
>In this vein, why do (some)men expect something back for friendship? That's so weird to me.
Because men have been brainwashed by media that kindness entitles them to sex. It doesn't help that the people that write a lot of the stories were probably rejected by women by following this myth that kindness gets you pussy. It fucking doesn't. At best, the woman will be honest and reject you. At worst, she strings you along with no intention of ever taking your relationship any further, and uses it as leverage to get you to behave a certain way towards her.
>>
>>16952778
>as long as you're able to enter into an exclusive relationship with girls

Who makes that determination? A new federal bureau of dating.

Your application seems to be in order mr smith.
Here is your virgin.
>>
>>16952793
It isn't the media. It's our mothers and our teachers and beta male adults and fucking everyone. Nobody teaches boys how to be men any more because it's sexist. They just say "be nice to girls and treat them with respect!". So why wouldn't boys grow up thinking that's how they get girls to like them?
>>
I see losers worshiping women every day OP.
I don't get mad about it, it's their choice.
I feel sorry for them, and sometimes it's even abusive, but it's their choice. Except the mentally ill guys. That's criminal, taking advantage of the mentally handicapped.
Is enslaving them to a woman any worse than institutionalizing them?

On the other hand a lot of guys are unwittingly enabling abusive relationships. Girl gets abused by Chad, she cries on her buddy's shoulder, and then goes back to bed with Chad.
Her buddy isn't helping her. Just being there for her enables her to stay and be abused.
Chad is grateful that her buddy is stopping her from running and getting real help when she needs it.
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>>16952793

>"something back"

Hint hint: sex isn't "something back". You're not fucking someone to do them a favor. Your idea that sex is something that you'd "give" someone is basically the entire core of the problem. If you ever think that you're doing someone else a favor when fucking them, don't do it. Instead, get your fucking head checked.

Sex is something two people do together because they like it. You're not "letting" someone, you're not "giving" something, you're not entering some sort of exchange. Unless, of course, you're literally a prostitute.

The idea that men "expect" sex is quite simple. As a man, I know. Sex is simply a nice thing two people can do. There is nothing mythical or big or intimidating about it. The gigantic cultural pussyfooting and monumental clusterfuck that we built around it and that created more mental illness and lonliness and social problems than anyone could possibly imagine is nothing on any actual level. Everyone wants to fuck, to varying degrees. Anyone who has functioning sexual organs has the ability to fuck. There is nothing that would prevent two adults that get along to just have sex, for no reason beside that sex is an enjoyable activity.

Now you might call me a fucking hippy or something, but come on. Sex and procreation have been successfully unlocked from each other. Sexually transmitted diseases are preventable and/or a minor and/or temporary loss of life quality. There is no price to pay. People also use cars, smoke, and move to Israel.

So I'm not surprised. I'm not impressed. I'm just dumbfounded, again and again, how sexuality and sexual desire are stigmatized again and again. How bad people are made to feel because of their completely natural thoughts and desires. Of course, I'm not saying that you should have sex with people you don't want sex with. You should just also respect someone's desire to fuck - and to find someone that wants the same.
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>>16952975
Nice rant, but I think it went a bit off topic here.
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>>16952975
I like this post.
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>>16949187
>If you get mad about a girl being happy, even if it means she's with another man, then you never truly loved her or cared for her at all. You selfishly wanted her all to yourself, and you deserved to get cucked like that.

Total fucking bullshit. Would you agree with this?

"If you get mad about a man being happy, even if it means he's with another women, then you never truly loved him or cared for him at all."

There's a biological reason that sexual jealousy exists.

And nobody "deserves" to be cuckolded.
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>>16952342
>don't lay there rolling in broken eggs forever.

i like this
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>>16952509

As someone else said:

>Females make for worthless friends since they have zero concept of loyalty or honour, so the only reason men associate with them is sexual interest or for networking purposes.
>>
>>16953142
My ex is with someone else, and I couldn't be happier. Way better than having a stalker.
>>
>>16952793
>Because men have been brainwashed by media that kindness entitles them to sex.

Totally false.

Women love to say that men think kindness entitles them to sex. But what guys actually think that? "I was kind to you, now you owe me sex"?

No, these guys believe the MYTH that women spread that they want to be treated as equals. That's a lie women tell to separate the dominant men from the submissive boys.

When a guy treats a woman with kindness, or like an equal, and she rejects him for a bad boy who treats her like shit, he's extremely confused, because he believed her when she said she wanted to be treated well.

A guy might believe that kindness gets you pussy, but only if he believes women who say they want to be treated like a princess (which is extremely common in Western society).

It's amazing how much women reward men who treat them badly. It's confusing to guys, who wonder why anyone with self-respect would stay with someone who treated them so badly. But like battered wife syndrome, or Stockholm Syndrome, these women stick around. Because they're afraid of being alone, they're attracted to power and strength, and they basically have no self-respect. And women are just biologically attracted to and willing to submit to (or unwilling yet still turned on by) dominant men.
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>>16952975
>You're not "letting" someone, you're not "giving" something, you're not entering some sort of exchange. Unless, of course, you're literally a prostitute.

Yes, a woman is letting a man have sex with her (unless it's rape). A woman is giving herself to a man. And most male/female relationships take on the form of prostitution (exchanging money/resources for sex).

>"You gotta understand that when you meet these women essentially they are losers. She HAS to get something out of her pussy, dude. She has to get dinner. She has to get a movie. How can she function if she doesn't get something out of what she has?"

And just because humans invented The Pill and abortion, does not change hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. Humans have tried to take the risk out of sex, but women always carry the greater risk, so she has to make choices on who she lets in. Women are the gatekeepers.

And women are naturally hypergamous. They are biologically driven to mate with the best possible mates they can.

But there's also a biological reason why sexual jealousy exists, and why "slut shaming" exists. In general, men don't want to waste resources raising a child that isn't theirs.
>>
>>16953195

And what if you two were still together? If you were still in a relationship, but you weren't happy with her sleeping with someone else, does that mean you don't love her? No. It's totally reasonable to expect exclusivity from someone you're having sex with.
>>
>

>Yes, a woman is letting a man have sex with her (unless it's rape). A woman is giving herself to a man. And most male/female relationships take on the form of prostitution (exchanging money/resources for sex).
implying womyn can't enjoy sex, implying womyn don't have jobs
I really feel sorry for you for not having felt love from someone. I hope you're 14 y/o cause then there's still hope for you.
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