Mr and Mrs Whatever

>>16947205
I would never marry someone with so little respect for me that I would even consider that possibility.

>>16947225
This right here

Yeah, but I'd get over it. It would be a much bigger problem if she wanted the kids to have two last names.

>>16947205

No, it's a pretty normal thing to do now

>>16947225

Explain why you see it as disrespectful? I guess I've just grown up knowing couples where they both kept their own names, and I never saw anything strange about it

>>16947205
I couldn't care less. I don't plan on having my wife take my name. Technically, I'm not from the US, though, so take that as you will. Never understood why that's a thing, really.

Some people do a dash in between both of their names and both take that.

It's really easy for it to sound weird though, otherwise I think it'd happen more often.

the whole sharing last names thing is bullshit

>>16947205
As a guy, I find the concept of changing your last name completely weird. I don't really feel like it's a respect issue for her. Maybe a self respect issue.

>>16947205
No it wouldn't bother me. However, I've no plans on getting married. I've been with the same woman for almost 10 years. She's my common law wife (I guess) but she keeps her last name. I'll never get married.

>>16947252
Hyphenating named is bizarre to me. What happens if Mr and Mrs Anderson-Williamson have kids who grow up and marry? Do you keep adding new hyphens every generation?

Wouldn't give a damn, would kinda judge anybody who would. Kids should always take their father's name, to provide a tangible link between them and their father (kids don't need a tangible link to their mother, everybody saw them pop out of her vagina.) My fiancée probably will keep her name, cause it's cool and unusual and reminds her of her father, who she doesn't get to see much anymore, and my last name is sort of ugly anyway. I don't feel emasculated or disrespected by that at all. That'd be crappy of me when she treats me with clear love and respect every day.

My girlfriend is Chinese (she moved to the US when she was 4), and I would understand if she didn't want to take my name, given that it's not a thing in the culture she's from.

I know for a fact that she would at least feel the need to offer to take my name, but it's not really worth the stress it would cause her father if he's expecting her to keep his name. Her father has also been like a father to me, and so, out of respect, I'm happy to oblige his preference over mine.

I'd say that things like names should be the least of your concerns if you're considering marriage, though.

>>16947237
Because most people recognize it as a societal norm. If someone has respect for me and I know that I have an influence on them, then I feel that they should know that it's something I expect out of them.

If they are a researcher of any kind or publish anything under their old name before marrying it makes perfect sense to keep their old name.

>>16947265
I think Spaniards all have two last names. One from the father and one from the mother. But the kid gets the last names that he shares with both his grandfathers, not the ones from the grandmothers.

Yea, means you're marrying a hyperconfrontational, contrarian bitch who probably doesn't respect you and listens to feminist propaganda.

I would not care either way, as long as she does not hyphenate our names.

>>16947350
Or she does research in academia and changing her name would make it damn near impossible to find her older work for people searching her new name.

>>16947350
>hyperconfrontational
How ironic.

>>16947363
How

>>16947341
I think that applies to most Spanish speaking countries. It's how it goes where I'm from.

>>16947350
I'm a man, not rabidly feminist or nontraditional or anything like that. I don't feel strongly about this issue one way or the other.

I do not like you.

You have a serious chip on your shoulder and you seem very unpleasant.

Ditch your baggage. It's doing you a disservice.

>>16947378
Take your shaming language somewhere else fuckboy.

>>16947367

Because your post is both hyperconfrontational and contrarian

>>16947360
Not everyone is marrying a PhD.. so why not mention that in the OP?
>>16947391
Ermm? Pointing out that feminist women are hyperconfrontational is not itself hyperconfrontational or contrarian. Sorry your frontal lobes have atrophied from all those years in public school.

>>16947400

>Every woman who doesn't want to take her husband's name is a hyperconfrontational, contrarian bitch
>I'm not being confrontational
>Here's an insult and a baseless assumption about your own personal history, just to prove further that I'm not being confrontational

>>16947400
I'm not OP, just pointing out that if her name is relevant to her profession it makes more sense for her to keep it or even have you jump on her name if it's super important you two share one.

>>16947400

>Nah, I didn't insult him

>>16947408
>saying true things is an insult :^( and that's mean. Respect MY feels
>an observation based on real life experience that can be corroborated by thousands of anecdotes about feminists online is completely baseless

"""""""""""""Okay""""""""""""

>>16947410
That's completely legitimate then

>>16947205
Yes. It's not a deal breaker but yes. My current lady says she would not. For the academic reason (she's done some research that has been published) but also she pays lip service to the feminist part of it (even though she's pretty much in no way a feminist in actual thought and action). My thinking is this though: Literally every part of marriage on paper benefits the female. She gets the big wedding she wants, she gets the big ring, she gets everything I have if it doesn't work, she gets the kids if it doesn't work. All I ask for is a little bit of the tradition that I enjoy. Yes, it is old-fashioned, yes, it can be seen as some mild sort of ownership of the other person, don't care. I don't think it's too much to ask.

>>16947423
Damn bro, stay cucked. You feel that way, and she doesn't care?

i'm a girl, I did because it makes things less complicated. If i am getting packages or he is getting something for me vise versa it makes it easier to take care of shit.

it should be a choice that can go whatever way you want. I just like things simpler.

>>16947423
Haven't really talked to her about it seriously. When we get there, we'll see.

My boyfriend and I have discussed and I told him I would either hyphenate or just keep my last name. Concerning children, though, I told him they would have his last name as I'm not too concerned about it

>>16947205
Deal breaker.

>>16947205
No

>>16947205
Unless there are professional reasons, I would be pretty insulted if she kept her name.

>>16947205
I would never marry someone who wouldn't let me keep my last name. Not that I really plan on getting married in the first place, though.

>>16947205
>>16947225
The correct answer is: as a male, I know better than to get married.

>>16947205
>Would it bother you if your wife

yes, sorry. bye.

Whatever you do, if you decide to keep your maiden name, please don't give your children hyphenated last names.

t. anon with hyphenated last name

>>16947925
What's so bad about it? Genuinely curious

i would never get married, so it's not really an issue.

>>16947934
It gets confusing and cumbersome, especially on formal and legal paperwork. Especially if it becomes twice the length of a typical last name.

Not to mention now I have no idea what to do with my future kids' last names.

Icelanders take the first name of their father and add "son" or "dort' and use it as a second name .. Like "christian.son".

So that's fun..

This is a country that has 50 corrupt bankers in jail at the moment and is in the process of forgiving all bad mortgages.

Seriously though, just do what you feel or agree to be enjoyable, its not a fight. If you are squabbling over this then its time to reconsider.

>>16947378
You are a gigantic faggot and being disliked by you is a credit.

I would probably not marry a woman who would refuse to take my name. Unless she was some sort of unbelievably wonderful person.

If you want to play feminist, then you shouldn't get married in the first place.

File: 1419285535330.png (1MB, 1080x1440px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1080x1440px

>>16947225
Ivanka Trump, Natalie Portman, and Mila Kunis kept their names. You'd reject those three women?

>>16948102
They're all like 35, so yeah probably.

If it's a way better name? Yea i might, my family's name sucks. But the way my senpai is going i just might need to carry a family name.

I was thinking of going for Hispanic-American naming conventions, as detailed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_American_naming_customs

I'm not a hispanic-american, but it seems really useful.

>>16948102
A big difference here is that those three women are prominent figures whose names actually mean something to people.

I don't have feminist objections to the practice as a whole, it's a tradition most people don't think about. Demanding it is different. Mostly I'm just attached to my name. It is how I see myself. I don't want to see myself as "anon's wife" I want to see myself as myself. Likewise, I would never want people to identify him as "anonette's husband" rather than his own name and all it represents.

Also, I'm published and changing my name would suck on that front.

>>16947225

Bingo.

The traditions give some things to men and some things to women.

The woman not taking the man's last name is her saying, "I want everything, you get nothing"

Depends on a lot of different factors. In general I wouldn't really care that much. We're still married and my gf likes her last name while mine is a bit dull.

It does kind of undermine marriage a bit though. You don't have to get married and changing your name is an important part of taking a relationship to the next level and becoming a family.

If it really bugged her that much I'd wonder why she wanted to get married at all. It's not something I'd be pushing for too strongly in the first place.

I would be annoyed if we had children and she demanded it had two-last names or hers.

That does essentially force her to change her name, or to at least take my name as a second name she keeps silent. But the idea of family is quite important to me, and comparatively not that important to my gf. So she'd be asking me to throw away this connection to my ancestry and family name when she doesn't care about her own.

If she really kicked up that much of a fuss about it I'd just change my second name.

>>16948104
so much edge

>>16948156

> I don't want to see myself as "anon's wife"

Why would you ever get married then? I know what you mean in a way. You don't want to just be a wife or an object like 'anon's playstation'.

But at the same time, if you don't want to have that kind of connection and fusion to another person, why would you marry them?

I work with my father, and I will inherit his activity one day, so I will keep my last name.

My kids will have my boyfriend's name.

>>16948179
Not the person you're replying to, but marriage isn't about giving up yourself as a person to become something else.

I think my boyfriend fell in love with me, with the person I am, with my flaws, my qualities, my achievements, my weaknesses. I've never needed him, but I always wanted him in my life because he's exceptional and he makes me want to be a better person, he gives me the strength to do bigger things, he makes me feel safe.

Marriage is a promise: you promise to love, take care and respect your partner till death. You don't need to cease being you for this.

>>16948179

More or less what >>16948198 said.

My wanting to get married is about making that commitment to him and declaring it. It's a mutualistic thing, in my mind.

A lot of wedding traditions involve treating a woman like property to be exchanged. Loved and cherished property, maybe, but still more or less under the patronizing care of a male. I feel like, as a society, we're getting past that. Modern marriage isn't about a wife having a home to live in and a man to be responsible for her. It's more about the love and romantic commitment.

It's fine if couples agree that they enjoy the tradition, but at the same time it's hard for me to think of a man who DEMANDS the wife change her name as anything other than possessive and insecure.

If you feel like the woman keeping her name means the man "gets nothing" why the fuck are you getting married? Surely all the supposed rights she gets and risks it is to you aren't worth something as small as slapping your name on a human being?

>>16948198

Marriage is more than a promise. You don't need a marriage to 'promise' to love someone until they die.

Marriage is a legally binding contract that establishes you as husband and wife.

The idea really is that promises don't mean shit, so you need to build in an impetus to get past the struggles you are going to face in the next 50 years.

You are intentionally re-framing your identity because you are creating a family together and asking your community of friends and family to help you do that. When you get all that cash, and all those presents, and people take off time to see you get married it's because you are actually doing something meaningful.

Hallmark will make you a card with some stupid promise in it for $2.

>>16948221

Not that person, but okay, fair.

Personally, I'd be fine having a wedding ceremony to make it feel official and all, even if it wasn't legally binding. I'm not worried about it falling apart without the negative incentive of divorce being a pain in the ass.

That still has no real implications for the name problem.

Women, how would you feel if a guy wanted to drop his last name (or change it to something else)?

>>16948246

I'm sure there are isolated situations in which it would be weird or unacceptable (changing it to the last name of a woman he's not with, changing it to something edgy), but I think I can safely say women generally do not give a fuck what a man does with his own last name.

>>16948228

It's not just that you have the threat of divorce. It's that you actually have something to lose and fall apart.

Being someone's wife and being part of their family means something. Just as you wouldn't tell your parents to fuck off after having an argument, you now wouldn't tell your husband to.

I don't think the name change is that important or that the man couldn't take his wife's name. But the reason why you would change your name if you didn't have any objections to that is fundamental to getting married.

So if the idea of being someone's wife makes you uncomfortable, why even enter into to this legal contract that is steeped in tradition?

>>16948221
The point I don't get is this one - Why do I need to "reframe my identity" to do be a wife?
Me and my boyfriend are already, in practice, a married couple. We don't do anything different from my parents, or his parents. We've been together for almost 10 years, living together for 7, we share everything we own and we're there for each other whatever happens. We have our house, our cars, our bank account, I cook him dinner when he gets home from work, he makes me breakfast in the morning.
Of course marriage will be a binding, legal contract that establish that we have to keep doing what we already do till we die. It is an important step, but I won't do anything different from now if we get married, I won't reframe my identity when we'll become husband and wife. I will just know that we promised, in front of our friends and families, that we'll keep doing it. And if we stop doing it, there will be legal consequences.
That's it. It won't change who I am, what I do for him or our life.

>>16948253

The contract is different things to different people. The legal contract =/= the tradition. Especially since people in the US who have an indian wedding, a legal gay wedding, a catholic wedding and a civil service all have the same fucking contract, but very different ideas of marriage.

The legal contract is neat-o since I don't expect any problems it will only make life easier for insurance and not dying alone in a hospital after a car accident.

My wedding ceremony will only resemble the typical American wedding of the 20th century in that there will be a separate ceremony and reception, we're gonna kiss, and there will be cake. The rest isn't like the tradition at all, although obviously it has the same skeleton. It's about us and what makes us feel right. Traditional vows wouldn't feel right, for example.

Being his wife doesn't bother me. Being thought of primarily as his wife does. Just like I wouldn't want to be thought of primarily as a mother. Or any other life role. I don't like being reduced that way.
I want to distance myself from that idea. In practice, that means having my own life (in addition to "our life") as much as possible, having my own goals, my own achievements, etc. Sounds simple but I know a lot of people (particularly women) who don't.

My maiden name is my name. I see it and think "that's me." I'm sure I could adjust, but for me it's all part of keeping my identity separate and mine.

>>16948271

I don't really understand the question. How could you become someone's wife without changing your identity?

Think of it as the difference between raising a child you found on the street and adopting him. Going from being his carer to being his mother.

Someone that is legally and socially bound to care for another person, versus someone that is just doing that so long as it works for them.

If marriage for you is just a really expensive party that will make no difference to your relationship then that's great. Go blow all your savings on a shitty dress.

I think what is quite telling though is that you don't want to be "someone's wife," which indicates you know being a wife means something more than just being a girlfriend or 'life partner'.

You get it means creating something new with another person. You don't want that, which is fair enough, but don't pretend that's not what marriage is.

>>16948306

You seem like you are implying things you aren't saying. Creating something new with another person doesn't change your identity. Being called a wife doesn't change my identity. Being thought of as primarily that and not primarily my name is a change in my identity.

Add in to that the social conditioning that makes me feel like "wife" represents a woman with no personal goals, who is unpleasant to be around and not desirable company...and yeah, I don't want to be called that. If men want me to be proud to be called a wife, maybe they should have thought of that when they or their buddies were making jokes and complaints to the above effect.

Life partner to me seems like a gender-neutral version of husband or wife. Doesn't have the baggage of either, just maybe makes you sound gay if you don't specify lol.

>>16948286

I don't think it's true that marriage is "very different" for all those people. Maybe for homosexuals but that is why all those straight people were getting butthurt. Because they were trying to change the definition of marriage.

I see what your saying about not being defined by a certain role. But you're kind of confusing existentialism here with marriage. You're worried about a kind of Sartrean inauthenticity, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get married, have children, or work as a waiter. It means you shouldn't deny your own freedom or ability to make those choices just because you have those roles.

The question of whether you are living in bad faith isn't that closely tied to whether you change you name or not.

Some people are always going to think of you as anon's woman or anon's mother by the way. It's just how it is.

>>16948323

That is how it is, but anything I can do to not contribute to that is great.

>>16948306
I think marriage is assuming a responsibility, both legally and socially. I do want to assume that responsibility while remaining me.
I don't care about the party, or the dress, or whatever. I never cared. We plan to get married when I am done with my internship. We're engaged (but we still call each other boyfriend/girlfriend since we've been engaged for 5 years and calling someone your "fiancé" for 5 years is ridiculous, for us).

I am not going to be "just" his wife. There will always be more in my life than just him.
I'll be a doctor. I'll be a daughter, as long as my parents are alive. I'll be a friend. One day I'll be a mother. I'll always be a person with my interests, my hobbies, my passions, my own flaws and qualities.
I don't want to be reduced as "his wife". I am more than that. I want to be more than that.

The fact that he is going to be next to me for the rest of my life is my biggest joy. Creating a new family with him is my biggest dream.
But I won't be just "someone's wife". I don't want to be just that. There is more in my life, there is more about me.

>>16947350
In this situation, you're the bitch. Just give her the choice and maybe she'll actually feel fucking good about taking your name.

Women, how would you feel if your fiance refused to get married unless you took his last name?

>>16948318

There are all kinds of things that identity could mean. In a metaphysical sense, no, you're not really changing your identity by starting a family and getting married.

In the sense of how you relate to the world and how you see yourself and your commitment to others, marriage and being someone's wife is quite a shift in your identity.

Until you get married and change your name and start seeing yourself as being part of the same family, you are still single and you still own all your own stuff and you can do whatever the fuck you want.

I don't really know why you think being a wife means being a boring monster. You shouldn't let 80s sitcoms shape how you view reality.

>>16948338

I probably wouldn't be with that sort of person. If it came up early on, it would be a big red flag, probably big enough to make me break up with him. I doubt he holds that belief yet agrees with me on everything else.

If, somehow, everything seemed 100% soulmate material and he just whipped that out of the blue, I'd probably fight him about it. If he wouldn't relent, I'd just not marry him. If that became grounds, for him, to break up with me, okay, fine.

My name isn't that important by itself. But I doubt somehow that a man who demands the name change isn't a sexist asshole.

>>16948341

It's pretty ridiculous that you think people can't be part of the same family and own stuff jointly and be so entwined in each others lives that they can't "do whatever the fuck" they want without a traditional marriage concept.

It's me and him against the world. Has been for 5 years. We live together too. The only thing that's going to change is our legal status.

no not really

Guys who wouldn't marry a girl who'd refuse to take your name: What if taking your name made her name sound completely ridiculous a la Julia Gulia?

>>16948101
>Unless she was some sort of unbelievably wonderful person.

You'd marry anything less?

>Mrs

I go by Ms

>>16947205
Anon the better question is what are you kids going to be called?

I can guarantee you your woman is going to want her last name as theirs. She's going to kill your last name.

>>16948537

My son has my husbands name. It's shorter, cooler, and sounds better with his first name.

>>16948537
I want to keep my name, but I want my kids to get my boyfriend's name.
It's not necessarily related.

>>16948537

My mother kept her own name and all us kids have dad's name. Her family name will die with her since her brother is a lifetime NEET. But she doesn't care.

But in all fairness, we'll probably kill our Dad's name too, since all his kids are doubtful to pass it on and his sister lost it to her husband.
Poor guy. He loves studying ancestry, too.

>>16948546
>>16948562
>I'm a girl hurr
Don't ever post on this website again.

>>16948566
OPs women is the new generation, she'll push for it otherwise she wouldn't care.

OP your future wife is her own person at the end of the day . do you not want her to be her own person? . you can be inseparable but still have different identities .

shit don't matter

>>16949514
cuckold detected

>>16947205
It depends on why she's refusing to take my name. If my last name is "Smith" and her last name is "Kennedy" then uh no, I probably wouldn't have a problem lol. I might even take her last name.

But the context matters. Why doesn't she want to take your last name?

Also, since she's so keen to fight against the patriarchy, I assume she will be paying for at least half of all expenses related to her wedding correct? She doesn't get to have it both ways - either she's an "equality" girl or she isn't. She doesn't get to snub my last name and then act like I have to go all DeBeers and expensive wedding on her. You want equality? Ok then let's be equals.

Yes, it would bother me a lot.

>>16949616

Bride's family pays where I'm form.

I'll give up my last name for my husband, but I can completely understand why some women don't want to.

Your name is a huge part of your identity. Imagine if the tradition was reversed and YOU had to take YOUR WIFE'S last name. Imagine yourself with a different last name. It's kinda WIERD right? It's especially wierd if you're a successful woman who has had research published or who has her maiden name on her diploma and stuff.
In a sense you feel like you're disassociating with that success and sacrificing it for a man.

Again, it's a sacrifice that I am willing to make but I hope that men realize that it is a big sacrifice for many women, and respect/appreciate that sacrifice in the same way that women should appreciate the sacrifices that the man makes.

Literally never.

God damn it it's just a fucking name.

>>16947265
Nah it's quite normal for the wife to be called Anderson-Williamson. The child usually takes the father's last name.

My mother has her maiden name, but I have my father's name.

>>16947205

my future wife told me she wouldn't, I got a little upset at first but then I realized there was no reason (rational reason) for me to do so.

also we're both academics and she already has some production under her maiden name, that's also a thing