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Corporal punishment leads to disciplined children

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we'r gonna have a class debate on monday and im on the affirmative side of corporal punishment in the homes. problem is, the odds are not in our favor. i have googled and googled and all studies link to corporal punishment actually having bad side effects to children. help me /adv/, you're my only hope
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Teacher here. I can tell which of my students have and have not been spanked, and it flies against what the so-called research shows.

When the opposition brings up their studies, ask for details. Who, where, how much, what were the conditions before during and after, socio-economic settings, controls to the studies, etc. I guarantee they can't answer you because studies done in there humanities and social 'sciences' are largely not scientific and are tailored to fit predetermined conclusion and agenda
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>>16932516
thanks! that's a big help... do you know some studies that are pro corporal punishment? so we could at least face their studies with our own studies
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>>16932510
Quite a few studies have been done on this. They seem to indicate that spanking produces good workers, but poor managers.
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>>16932510
In this case, you would want to use emotional arguments to make your point. Not scientific.

Tell the story about the kids of generations ago who stayed in line through spanking and grew up to be healthy adults while kids now have various issues with boundaries, self esteem, and self worth.

If you really find it necessary to include studies, I'd recommend looking up something older (50's or 60's era) instead of recent.
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>>16932516

>I can tell which of my students have and have not been spanked

How, exactly? Or are you just looking at all the good, well-behaved, hardworking kids and assuming without evidence that their parents slap their butts?
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>>16932538
No, he pulls down the pants of every child in his class on booty inspection day.
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Spanking doesn't work, amd attacking the studies also won't work either if all you have on your side is speculation and anecdotes.
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>>16932545
im actually neither for or against spanking but i know that we're on the losing side here. but it'd be nice to win though
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>>16932551
Why? If something is shown to likely be harmful, why would you want to win? I mean if its a fetish, just spank them anyway.
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>>16932555
winning=higher grade
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>>16932555
Yeah I don't think you've ever had to do an actual debate for a class
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>>16932536
that is a weak argument. don't bring it there, you'll get a b at best
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>>16932551

Put on a show. Go on CraigsList, round up a bunch of spanking fetishists and bring them to class for a surprise live demonstration. Just dazzle your classmates with a chorus of butt-slapping. Their giggles and joyful expressions will be all the proof you'll need that spanking is wonderful and should be mandatory in all households.

You'll win the debate without even saying a word. You'll be hoisted up and carried through the hallways by your cheering classmates, and those who debated against corporal punishment will be expelled from the school
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>>16932545
Attacking the study does work because the studies themselves are bullshit. Just point out how irrelevant they are, any mitigating circumstances, and how the subjects experiences are vastly different in more ways than just spanked or not spanked.
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>>16932563
Why, i think that was a good reason.
>if you want your kids to succeed dont spank them, unless its sexual in nature
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>>16932545
anecdotal evidence compiled equals a study.

I was never spanked. My dad was way too cool for that. He was the meanest most abusive son of a bitch that ever walked the face of the earth. Probably homophobic or something, but spanking was something he would never do.
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>>16932593
the debate is about whether or not it leads to disciplined children so forgive me for asking this but are you possibly fucked up in any way?
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>>16932510
The problem with all those studies is that they don't account for anything other than the amount of times the kid was spanked.

>Were they spanked more because they were inherently bad children?
I would play to this argument most
>Did the parents have disproportionate punishments for misbehavior?
We can all agree that not everything is deserving of a spanking. There are some households that the punishment is either all or nothing. The kid either gets away with it, and get a "don't do that" or they get their ass whipped unprompted.
>Were the parents consistent with punishment?
Did they consistently punish the kids for their behavior?
>Did the parents explain why the kids were punished?
This is a big one. Once kids know why they were punished, they'll learn why they shouldn't do it.
>Did the parents also provide positive reinforcement?
Does the spanking exist in a vacuum? Were the kids rewarded and encouraged for positive behavior?
>Was there positive physical interaction in general?
Was spanking the ONLY physical interaction with the parents? Surely a parent who hugs and kisses their child will build trust.

One of the biggest issues with social sciences is that it's almost impossible to reduce things down to a single variable. At best, tests expose a symptom of a larger problem. Humans have way too many variables, and you can't just filter them out. Try looking at these tests in multiple dimensions. What things were accounted for? What things weren't?

Is it really that spanking is bad? Or is it when parents have no other tools to deal with their kids, and only know how to discipline in fits of rage?
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>>16932633
good points thank you so much
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>>16932645
Also, here's this
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/25/us/findings-give-some-support-to-advocates-of-spanking.html?pagewanted=all
It talks about a psychologist who has done studies on child-rearing pointing out flaws with the experiments, and a counter study that shows otherwise. Get to the actual source of the study, find the information, and present that
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>>16932607
Disciplined children come from disciplining parents. But don't confuse discipline with punishment.

Uneducated parents are incapable of properly disciplining their children.

On the other have, educated parents can do far worse psychological damage to their children.

Am I damaged? We all are in one way or another, but i'm told that i'm remarkably well rounded for someone that went through everything that I did. I was well disciplined.

Discipline is not punishing wrong, it's about teaching right. Ignorant parents who can't comprehend how to teach right may resort to violence.
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>>16932586
Wat. OP has to do a debate for a class and his position is FOR corporal punishment.
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>>16932510

Another thing you can argue is that you cannot teach children like you can teach an adult.

Childrens mental capacity, emotional control, and forward thinking capabilities are not as well established as those in an adult.

Hell, just argue the amygdala and frontal lobe (which process forward thinking and ability to recognize threats and forecast into the future) are not well developed, and that corporal punishment is necessary as a tool to instill pain so that if the child cannot recall why they shouldn't do something, they will reflexively respond negatively to a stimulus that created pain.
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I support capital punishment in the home.
A fetus is not a human until it's 15 years and 9 months of age.
Parents should have the right to abort their mistakes, and do-over.
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>>16932666

>666

Fuck off, Satan. Defending a position you don't personally agree with is an important part of building debate skills. It makes it necessary to rely solely on logic and persuasive ability instead of emotion and "right and wrong."
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONNRfflggBg
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>>16932725
Holy shit can you not read. That's EXACTLY what I'm tying to explain. OP has to argue in favor of corporal punishment, even if he or other anons don't personally agree with it.
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we all have a duty to support corporal punishment
it doesn't matter that we choose not to do it to our children, we cannot interfere in the life choices of others.
banning corporal punishment would cause a shortage of unskilled laborers the likes of which this world has never seen.
The entire world economy would collapse, and millions would die as a result.

I know we all feel compassion for any child, but we cannot allow that to cloud our judgment on such a critical issue.

For society to function, we need men to pick up the grabage, and men to keep our sewers functioning, and these men only come from one place. These heroes were shaped of grit iron, forged by the heat of the paddle. Hardened by a leather strap, cane, switch, or whip, and they cannot be cost effectively replaced by machines as of yet, and so we must honor them, and praise their parents for their sacrifice.
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>>16932666
Well yes, the reason to spank your children is for sexual satisfsction of course.
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This is NOT a debate. It is so factually obvious that this kind of discipline is wrong. To even have a shred of doubt and think this is a legitimate means of discipline is to imply you are separated from your sense of humanity.

It should be illegal to spank children. It should be illegal to do anything that harms children.
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>>16932510
As a parent, I have many other parent friends who are in favor of corporal punishment. And openly say they hit their kids.

Yea, their kids are very obedient, but limited. The kids are obviously unhappy, fearful, and clearly have low self esteem.

The thing behind corporal punishment, is yes, it gives obedience. But they have found that worse things follow that. I think the only way you can debate this topic, is if you find evidence that if a child was hit, did it really fuck them over in the long run?

I disagree with corporal punishment for my own child, but that's because it really doesn't work for her. And I've found other ways to achieve her obedience without hitting, so why would I do something unnecessary? However, I'm not shitting on parents who do. I guess, if it works, it works.

The best thing you can do, is objectively lay out behavior patterns. Do not in any way advocate it as a parent's own frustration. You have to find data that says
>kid was bad
>kid was hit
>kid stopped being bad

And that's the best shot you got for this debate.
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>>16932771
How is this supposed to help OP at all?
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>>16932633
So publish your own data with your own inclusion criteria so we can conclude that white kids between the ages of 3 and 6 can be spanked when trying to turn on the oven as long as you have a talk about it after.

Because unless you actually have evidence that the benefits outweigh the risks (instead of a bunch of pointless questions), following best practices guidelines is the only defensible action.

The AACAP (in concordance with the AAP, etc):

Extensive research demonstrates that although corporal punishment may have a high rate of immediate behavior modification, it is ineffective over time, and is associated with increased aggression and decreased moral internalization of appropriate behavior. Additional negative outcomes associated with corporal punishment are:

- Increased risk for physical abuse

- Learning that aggression is an acceptable method of problem solving

- Experiencing physical and emotional pain, which decreases learning capacity

- Being less likely to learn why a certain behavior or action was wrong

- Behaving out of fear in the future
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Thats such fucking bullshit. My parents were strict disciplinarians who beat us when we did something wrong and i'm a fucked up, anxious mess. My brother turned out a bit better but hes kind of fucked up too. I'm totally against it and see it as child abuse
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>>16932773
>I've found other ways to achieve her obedience without hitting

do tell
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One of my golf partners is a Pediatrician in private practice, but also on call at the local hospital emergency. He states that nearly 80% of his income is from child abuse and vaccinations.

In turn he invests this income into stocks, and bonds that fuel technological advancement.

Shameful as it may be, much good comes from abusive parents. If children didn't have anything to hate about their parents, we would have no need of the entire psychiatric field, and most of us would be out of work.

Keep beating those children, cutting their penises, and injecting them with vaccines, for our future.
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>>16932817
You do realize that vaccinations is meant so you don't either die or be crippled for Life by a horrible disease right.......

Remember polio , alright you don't because of vaccines
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>>16932788
I'm an ABA therapist for children with autism. The things I do at work, I do at home. Works excellently on every child. It takes work and consistency, but it works.

Basically, every behavior is learned. It continues through enforcement.

This is the pattern
>trigger
>behavior
>consequence

Identify the pattern
>go to store
>child tantrums for candy
>consequences vary (lets say you buy the kid the candy)

You reinforced that tantrum by giving in.

The job as an ABA therapist, allows you to identify triggers, behaviors, and consequences, and find ways to make the bad behavior stop, and replace it with a good behavior.

For going to the store with a child that regularly tantrums, what I'd do is make my child aware that we are going to the store. Then, I would set my expectations. "I want no tantruming or whining in the store. IF you do this, I will reward you with (insert extremely preferred activity) for being a good girl at the store."

If she still tantrums, she gets no candy AND no preferred activity.

If she behaves well, doesn't even ask for the candy, does as she's told. She gets that extremely preferred activity. An example for my daughter is, she obsessively loves to help me cook dinner, she likes to have a moment on her iPad, and so on. These activities, she prefers way more than a candy bar. So I use them to modify her behavior.

When the behavior is modified over time. Say I have kept this up for a couple weeks. And finally I can go to the store, daughter won't even ask for a candy bar. I won't even have to tell her my expectations because it has now become ingrained into her mind that "If I'm good at the store, I get to do an activity I like." Therefore, bratty behavior at the store as stopped. And in return, I get a really lovely kid that understands her behaviors effect the world and what she gets from it.

This is just an example, but you can fit it into any bad behavior.
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>>16932835
>Remember polio

Why is it always "polio"?
Each and every time I rant about the millions of dollars i've made from pharmaceutical, that weren't really necessary, one of you morons jumps in to defend the polio vaccine.

Why polio? Why not choose a deadly disease that kills people. No, every time without fail you choose Poliomyelitis, which you know nothing about. You didn't even google before sticking your foot in your mouth did you?

95% of the world population was naturally immune to poliomyelitis, long before the vaccine, and they still are today.

But lets say you're one of the genetically defective 5% that are affected by polio.
IT DOESN'T KILL
Those who have had polio, have gone on to be president of the United States of America.

Just shut your whore mouth, and keep sticking those needles in your children.
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>>16932817
so corporal punishment essentially leads to abuse?

>>16932817
>>16932835
>>16932892
that's a topic for another thread
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>>16932817
>vaccines
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>>16932510
Corporal punishment can work, but the thing of it is that you can't raise a hand in anger. It must be calculated, measured, and delivered with a message explaining why what the kid did was wrong, why he's being punished, and how he can avoid being punished again. You can't cause real pain or injury of course; hurt a kid too bad even if all it does is leave them with a red ass, and they're going to rebel. The pain isn't the lesson, it's a reinforcement. A light smack, just enough to sting, a few more for severe or repeated infractions. Reward good behavior, and remember to always answer questions and be open to explanation.

The reason corporal punishment gets such a bad rap is because fucking shitters, retards and niggers who think the hurt is the part the kid should remember or forget to tell them what they did wrong or let their emotions get in the way of educating their kid.
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>>16932836
i read about this before (consistent parenting / authoritative style) i try to do this as much as possible though i have faults and give in to anger sometimes too when i'm tired. but it works very well and he's very well behaved when he's solely with me.

the problem is it's more bad behavior and acting up when his grandmother is babysitting or when he's with me and his mom because he knows he can get away with it
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>>16932510
A public flogging or two and some manual labor might be a good replacement for a lot of short term prison sentences, too.

Just saying. Would you rather explain that your year of unemployment was spent in a box or explain why there's a youtube video of you taking thirty to the backside and crying like a baby?
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>>16933059
I have the same issues with my daughter. I loathe grandma time. But when my mom complains to me if my daughter was a brat, I bring up what I do when she does tantrum. My mom has eventually caved in a bit to my idea of parenting because she saw that what I was doing worked.

However, I've been advised by colleagues to just let it go mostly. Unless of course, my daughter was absolutely dreadful. Because kids aren't perfect, and too much structure can get overwhelming. Honestly, my key concerns are daughter's behavior under my roof, and daughter's behavior/academics at school. If she wants to run circles around my mom, and my mom doesn't want to punish her for it, well, that's more my mom's fault than hers or mine.
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>>16932780
>So publish your own data with your own inclusion criteria so we can conclude that white kids between the ages of 3 and 6 can be spanked when trying to turn on the oven as long as you have a talk about it after.
>your criticism is totally invalid unless you can do your own experiments
That's not how criticism works. Also
>>16932652
A well established psychologist ran her own experiment and found little to no correlation between occasional spanking and negative side-effects, and she also explained why previous studies are bunk.
>Because unless you actually have evidence that the benefits outweigh the risks (instead of a bunch of pointless questions), following best practices guidelines is the only defensible action.
Uh, no. They're not pointless questions. They're questions that challenge the legitimacy of a scientific experiment. Do you not understand how controls and variables work in experiments and studies? If the study has various flaws due to unaccounted variables that compromise its legitimacy, and has obvious biases built in, then you don't have to follow it.

>Additional negative outcomes associated with corporal punishment are:
>- Increased risk for physical abuse
>- Learning that aggression is an acceptable method of problem solving
>- Experiencing physical and emotional pain, which decreases learning capacity
>- Being less likely to learn why a certain behavior or action was wrong
>- Behaving out of fear in the future
Again, if tests weren't riddled with biases and flaws, I'd take this conclusion more seriously.
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>>16932510
Remember what exactly you are arguing for in these debates.
Pick a stance that isnt too extreme and you can just defend that.
>corporal punishment is okay in these circumstances to this degree
Do not try to argue that corporal punishment in all cases are okay. Make it clear the cases you are advocating are okay. You are guaranteed to lose otherwise simply because they are going to say that it allows you to beat a kid into a coma and add in some slippery slopes here and there. Dont let them distract you from your position.
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>>16932555
Fuck you. You're the kind of person that I always get paired up with in class debates. People like you always put in minimal effort, especially if you disagree with the points. You always use the most cliché arguments since you don't care to put in 5 seconds of thought into the assignment.
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If the debate is comparing physical punishment to emotionally traumatizing a child, you can win this hands down.

Physical wounds heal quickly, but emotional scarring lasts a lifetime.

"Mommy loves my good boy" is emotional rape. Manipulating a child to want to please his mother. It's sickening to see the long term effect of these behaviors.
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>>16932836
You give children candy? There's a special place in hell for monsters like you.

Did adults give you candy when you were a child, is that why you continue the cycle of abuse?
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>>16933161

nigga what

Are you complaining that your mom loved you too much?
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>>16933191
I gave an example of reinforcing bad behavior. The store scenario was hypothetical. I just plugged in what I'd do with my daughter if we were in that situation since kids tantruming in stores for things like sweets and candy is fairly common.
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>>16932570
underratd
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>>16933204
https://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/suggestions-for-adult-survivors/

http://www.teach-through-love.com/types-of-emotional-abuse.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-Emotional-Abuse-from-Your-Parents-%28for-Adolescents%29
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>>16933207
Why not teach the child how bad candy is for them in the first place. No more tantrums if they understand that will cause them to be obese, diabetic, toothless, cancer victims when they get older.

Children aren't animals, treats are for dogs.

If you reward good behavior with candy, i'd hate to see how you punish bad behavior. make them eat lead paint chips?
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>>16933250
I'm guessing you didn't read my post correctly because I'm not rewarding with candy or giving my kid candy. I literally just gave an example.
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>>16933250
Plus, kids will eat food off the floor, pick their scabs with dirty finger nails, scratch their ass and sniff their hands without washing their hands after, pick their nose and eat it. And continue doing so no matter how much you tell them it's bad for them.

Children are impulsive, If it feels good, they like it. Honestly, not even that I do reward with candy, but candy in moderation or on occasion is not as bad as some of the most horrible shit I've seen working in public schools.

Literally had an 8 year old in regular ed clas that is a repeat offender for shoving his hands down another girls pants and he said his older brother told him thats how you get girls to like you, and you're concerned about candy in moderation?
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>>16933292
so you just tease her with the candy and then substitute something else?

>>16933302
kids eating food off the floor is a good way to build up their immune system.

hands down a girls pants works for me.
but yeah, he should wash them afterwards
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>>16933224
None of those say anything about a parent actually caring about and loving their child. They all say shit about abusive behavior like ignoring the child or calling the child names.

I'm sure that coddling too much is terrible for the child, but I would hardly call that abusive. Negligent, perhaps, but not abusive.
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Well OP, I know this is anecdotal but here's where I'm coming from. My parents were very disciplinary, when I was a kid my mom had no problem spanking us, and if we fucked up bad enough she would get the belt out. We weren't allowed to talk back, we had to do all our chores, we had to be in bed at a certain time, all that typical stuff. If we didn't do it, they gave us a warning and then if we didn't do it again we were getting hit by mom in some type of way. Then my dad would be the threatening figure in the background that would never hit us because my mom didn't think the man of the house should hit the children, but we didn't know that at the time so we were always scared it would happen (he was a big dude).

I had three siblings. One of them turned out to be a complete good kid, didn't drink until he was 21, was at or near the top of his consistently, and always followed orders. Great "employee of the month" type guy. One was similar but had a bit more edge in her. Never partied or anything but had a close group of friends that would get together and do typical high school stuff with growing up. I was pretty shitty, would just choose not to do chores because I knew how hard I would get hit so it didn't scare me, would constantly fuck up in school and would coast in classes by doing well on tests but rarely doing homework, ended up stealing the parents money to buy weed more often than I would like to admit, and would just stay over at friends houses smoking all night without telling them some weekends. The fourth one partied a ton in high school and ended up having a kid outside of wedlock in college.

So at the end of the day, I feel like it works as well as parenting would without it. It was more or less 50/50 for my family, and I know my family isn't all families, but from personal experience hitting a kid in any way doesn't make a kid more likely to follow orders, just to get better at finding ways around them.
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>>16932766

Jesus dude... you sound like a fascist
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>>16932516

>controlled studies are biased, my anecdotal evaluation of a subjectively good student is a much more accurate measure of their mental health, happiness, and futures! I know because of reasons, don't bother asking the studies for details though because you won't get any even though I've provided absolutely nothing!
>>
Debates are retarded, it's always obvious as soon as the topic comes up which side is right.

Fuck reality, just learn debate rules and loopholes. It doesn't matter who's correct, just who debates it better.
>>
The biggest factor people don't realize is that a child knows the difference between _punishment_ and physical abuse.

We used to get 5 slaps with a ruler for not doing Homework at school. Old school Catholic style. That was acceptable to me as a kid because I knew 100% it was coming and I knew 100% how to prevent it. it was more embarrassing more than painful desu. Even now when I think about it, it didn't really hurt so much as it just really stung at best and it was just really embarrassing so our brains told us it was as painful as touching searing metal. Most importantly, we all agree that this was acceptable punishment. We tacitly consented because we felt we earned it.

My mother used to pop me in the mouth for "talking back" which was really her being unstable as fuck from anti-depressants. I could never predict what 'talking back' actually meant cuz that pop and incoming swollen lip seemed so... arbitrary... I just stopped speaking to her about anything other than the weather. It instilled an IRRATIONAL fear of her. My poor mothers 63 year old arthritic hands can now barely lift anything over 2lbs and I'm 31 years old, own a home and I'm swole as fuck yet i'm still afraid of her. Classic Pavlovian Conditioning.

I don't think corporal punishment is ALWAYS BAD but I think people just make it do more harm than good. You RISK having child grow into a 'normal' adult vs making an enemy out of the same future adults who are gonna love you and take care of you when you are an old drooling invalid.

Your kids are literally an investment for old age, you don't wanna fuck it up by slapping em up. They'll move on, go to counselling, have their own family where they never hit their own kids and leave you in old age to slowly die alone and forgotten.
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>>16933100
>Mister Expert, Doctor Internet Scientist weighs in with his self-defined 'criticism' that we must take seriously because he says so
>>
Spanking doesn't work unless the kid being spanked is already submissive or made to actually FEEL BAD about it. Mental punishments gave much worse results than spanking. My only memories of spanking would be the fury and indignation I felt, no remorse, just pure rage and hatred for my parents. Meanwhile punishments like time out and icing me out (not talking to me until I said sorry and explained why) worked on me. Hitting me just made me angry and want revenge while psychological punishment impacted me on an emotional level and made me evaluate my actions. I think hitting is a shitty punishment and is just for humiliation, only works on some and is harmful to others.
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>>16934227
Do you have any actual arguments?
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>>16934397
Since you're the one wanting to argue with published papers and consensus statements, you're the one who needs to provide evidence (and not just 'studies have flaws duh doy look at me here's the Pyramid of Evidence thanks B-level science 100' )
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>>16934444
And I did, mongoloid
>>16932652
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/25/us/findings-give-some-support-to-advocates-of-spanking.html?pagewanted=all

>you're the one who needs to provide evidence (and not just 'studies have flaws duh doy look at me here's the Pyramid of Evidence thanks B-level science 100' )
Actually, you need to provide evidence and reasoning as to why my criticisms aren't valid. Do you even know how to argue? Or think for that matter?
>>
>>16932836
best post ITT

I'm a dog trainer and this is the same idea behind any behavior modification program, for any animal. hitting is for people too stupid or impatient to put the work in
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>>16934009
>It doesn't matter who's correct, just who debates it better.

I convinced the world that killing seals was a necessary evil. Was I right, or am i just a master debater?
>>
My father whacked me round the head when I was growing up whenever he felt I was talking back or being disrespectful or whenever his temper got the better of him because I was frustrating him by being slow or clumsy or not doing whatever it was that he was wanting me to do. He wasn't a great communicator.

I'd say that it didn't really harm me, but then it didn't really have a positive impact. I got really good at loathing him for being ignorant and stupid and not discussing his needs.

I got good at lying to his face. I got good at ducking and dodging him and just running the fuck away until he calmed down. I can't say that I really learnt any valid lessons about what was going on at the time which I was being punished for.

Past about the age of 10-11 I started swinging back at him and running off, progressing to attacking him in full on fits of rage. This escalated his behaviour until he was flipping tables, trashing things I cared about, trying to terrorise me into line.

By the age of 14-15 I was coming after him with bits of wood, metal bars. I'd shit talk him when he was drunk and unable to defend himself and beat on him. I'd have to go missing for a few days in order for him to calm down. I moved out and went technically homeless by 17.

In the short term it meant I didn't respect my father at all. I believed him to be a complete idiot. I had no sympathy for him. It wasn't until my mid 20's that we reconnected and we were able to build a relationship on more equal footing.

I realised he wasn't dumb, he was mistreated growing up. He was frustrated at how shitty his life was and he was taking it out on me. He couldn't talk about how he felt because he didn't know how to and didn't want me to grow up weak. He held some fucking weird ideas, but he was trying his best.

Still fucking sucks because he was supposed to be the adult in that situation, but I was born when he was 15, so what can you do? You assume people have it together, they don't always.
>>
Also want to say my gf works in social services and anybody professional that is around your child has a duty of care to report problem behaviour. Whack your child and they tell someone about it at school? Expect her knocking on the door to do several 'family assessments' over the next few months. Expect many meetings to take place with people behind closed doors about your child.

Stand your ground with aggressive or potentially harmful attitudes towards disciplining your kids in the face of this and the conversation turns to 'what is best for the child' and potentially they'll get fucking taken off you. More likely you'll get parenting classes from a 'family practitioner' until you tow the line.

Sounds draconian, but I think my father could have benefited from someone like this intervening when I was growing up. Also 99% of the time she isn't meeting with educated people with rational reasoning behind their parenting decisions. She is meeting illiterate people in situations involving poverty, addiction and messed up people.
>>
Once upon a time some wise men determined that alcohol was bad for children. Not just that children shouldn't drink it, but parents as well.
Drinking led to abuse. Drinking led to birth defects. And so the government stepped in, and banned alcohol.
The people responded by saying "you can't tell me what to do, I do what I want" and soon everyone wanted alcohol, even people who had never drank before, wanted what the government was taking from them. alcohol sales went through the roof, drunks were beating their children daily, and millions of defective babies were born. criminals took advantage of the new "demand" for alcohol, producing it as fast as they could, making truckloads of cash. The government was missing out on their share of taxes on these billions of dollars in alcohol sales, so they made alcohol legal, and knowing how badly the addicts wanted it, added extra taxes to alcohol sales.
The government learned how easy it was to manipulate it's citizens. Banning hemp, cocaine, marijuana, opium. Again the people cried "how dare you take away my rights" and they began lining up to purchase the drugs in a dark ally. millions more children were born with birth defects, making a majority of the population. Mush for brains, sheeple, mericans. People so intellectually impaired, that they are incapable of thinking for themselves, that they need television, and government programs to tell them what to do and how to live. Completely dependent on their government. Let's ban corporal punishment the government says.
>>
It's obvious most people have no idea how to discipline their kids nowadays. They're deathly afraid to give their kids a smack over the head when they're doing something really stupid which they know is stupid, and they're incapable of controlling their kids pedagogically. They basically try to bargain with their kids and plea that they'll behave, and when the kids don't do what their parents say, they get no punishment in any way. It's infuriating to see.
>>
Bring a small kid into the class and let him misbehave. Tell him he'll get spanked if doesn't stop and he should shut up. If he doesnt you spank him and then he will.
>>
>>16936040
>give their kids a smack over the head

Let's look at the human head for a moment, shall we?

The important part of the brain that keeps you alive is in the center, and rear of the skull. If you look inside the skull you'll find the back is smooth protecting these critical parts of the brain. The front of the brain is merely your reasoning center, you can function without it, so long as you have someone to stick spoonfulls of food in your mouth. It's not critical to life. This region of the skull interior is anything but smoothe and protective. It has many sharp protruding bone structures, eye sockets, sinuses. A meat grinder if you will.

Impact to the head jostles the brain around in this cavity. The back of the brain is virtually unharmed as it collides with the rear of the skull, but the front is not so lucky. Raked across the sharp bony structures this part of the brain is easily injured. Damaged brain cells spill their contents as they burst open.
This corrosive material damages nearby cells and a chain reaction destroys entire regions of the brain. Nothing important, of course, most of the time you'll still be capable of using a shovel, or a broom and doing as you're told.

Your child struck about the head will indeed become more and more obedient, as his ability to think for himself is destroyed.
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>>16936279
>>
File: 17h.jpg (544KB, 1506x1729px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
17h.jpg
544KB, 1506x1729px
>>
It's statistically impossible for all of our children to become brain surgeons, and rocket scientists. Some of our children will need to wash our dishes. Some of our children will need to go to distant lands and kill bad guys. They won't willingly do this things, if corporal punishment is not allowed.
By "allowed" I'm not suggesting that we ourselves impose capital punishment on any particular class of people, I'm saying we ought not prevent those who willingly volunteer their children, and thank them for their service.

We might even encourage participation in violent sports, such as football, hockey, boxing, and martial arts. Rewarding a few with million dollar contracts, will surly encourage others to participate, hoping for their chance at the big leagues. We know they don't stand a chance of making it, but what's the harm in letting them destroy themselves trying.

Televised wrestling is the best thing that ever happened. It's better than slicing peoples bread for them. Children can't wait to slam each other in the backyard, and head down to the recruiter when they are of age. Who are we to deny them their dreams.
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