some of my coworkers misgender me

deal with it, faggot

>>16540845
i'm trying to but it's hard talking to people sometimes. i don't know what to say to them. also don't call me a faggot.

>>16540840
>misgender
What does that mean?
You're a guy and they called you she to piss you off?

>>16540869
i'm a girl but they call me "he" and i'm not even sure why. might be to piss me off or could even be a weird religious thing

>>16540873
>i'm a girl but they call me "he"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahA9S-f2Vlg

>>16540880
lol that was good :)

but doesn't really apply in my situation. i like normal she/her pronouns. which should be obvious desu...

>>16540873
>or could even be a weird religious thing
Well then respect their religion

>>16540890
i mean, i do. they can be religious all over if they want. but when they're talking about me is it really too much to ask them to use my proper gender?

>>16540902
What genitalia were you born with?

>>16540873

God dealing with you faggots is the most annoying process in the world

Were you born biologically female?
>if yes then tell them youre a girl
>if no then realize that youre a boy in body and people will refer to you as such

>>16540902
maybe his religion only has one gender

>>16540902
Your proper gender...god, overpopulation has taken it`s toll. People have to much fucking time on their hands.

OP, unless you were born deformed, were you born with a penis or with a vagina?

>>16540909
>>16540911
>>16540914
>>16540916
and see, this is what i'm afraid of. seems like the majority of people here are dicks about the whole gender thing. i really wish i could be upfront and politely ask them to call me what i want, but if they're like you it would probably become like a big thing. and the last thing i want is more attention irl.

why does it matter so much to you guys? is it not okay to call someone the pronoun they prefer?

>>16540924
Answer the question

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>>16540924
Here's your reply.

>>16540924
>big thing

Dude youre at the point where you are asking 4chan for advice about your coworkers this is either bait or already a big thing to you.

>>16540924
>why does it matter so much to you guys?
i don't desu

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lmao this is probably the last place youd want to go to for this

>>16540924
Yes, it matters because I`m not going to call dogs by the name ”cats” and spread it around the media just to give birth to yet another super-sensitive self-diagnosing community.
These feelings of yours are just a cover for other mental problems most likely. So instead of pretending that your perfectly fine genitalia are a mistake, you should seek what is the REAL problem.

And yeah, don`t avoid the question.

>>16540941
an advice forum is the last place i should come to ask for advice? are you being serious right now?

>>16540924
Why does it matter so much to you? You are the one being the dick about gender. If the last thing you want is more attention then obviously your priority is to fit in rather than force your misguided views on your coworkers.

>>16540947
it bothers me when people misgender me. you probably wouldn't like it either. how am i being a dick? i'm the most nonconfrontational doormat person you've ever met. instead of TELLING them to call me "she" i'm here asking adv how to politely ask them to do it while minimizing any potential shitstorm. how am i being a dick?

>>16540924
Sure but to be fair you will now in return identify me as "King" because deep down inside I genuinely feel like the true monarch of the modern age and don't be a bigot telling me otherwise.

>>16540951
"can you please use my prefered pronouns: she, ze, zher, etc"
I don't see any other way to do it.

>>16540946
>>16540951
>>>/lgbt/

>>16540951
You`ve probably heard this a lot.

There are people who truly with all their heart believe they are meant to be disabled. Am I supposed to give them my seat? Let them park at the disabled`s parking spot?

>>16540840

OP, honestly it's going to come down to what you look like. If you were born a dude and you look like a dude, people are going to assume you're a guy. And if you're a guy that wears dresses, then people are just going to be uncomfortable and have no idea what to say.

People are never going to call you by the pronoun you prefer if you don't look like the pronoun you prefer. Sure, some people are asses about it. People are asses about everything. But you see to them you are one person, and for them to remember to call you by a different pronoun than the one they expect, well that's just too much to remember. It's too inconvenient, even for someone who means well.

If you have particularly nice co-workers, you could bring it up with them. If they're typical people, it's probably going to be too much trouble.

Honestly, I wish English had a non-gender pronoun that could actually be used with people. (No, 'it' doesn't work.) Just realize that male/female is a false dichotomy that our language mirrors. Even with the non-asses, it's hard to figure out what to call you.

Wait, now hol up hol up

Are you a girl and they keep calling you he just because?

Or are you one of those lady boys that think their mom forgot to give hem a pussy in the womb?

>>16540968
one of the very few sensible posts in the thread. thank you.

yeah i get that maybe it's a little much for people to deal with. but does that mean that i always need to accept this and just get over it? for some reason it really, really bothers me. i loathe being called "him".

is this my life for always? :(

>>16540988
All people have to choose from (in English) with human pronouns is 'him' or 'her'. If you look like a him, they're going to call you him. If you protest, they're just going to be uncomfortable and avoid pronouns entirely, unless they are very open-minded.

Why does it bother you so much? You are a guy right? I guess a different way of asking the question: why do you think you should be called 'her/she'?

>>16541002
>why do you think you should be called 'her/she'?
because i'm a girl. obviously.

I'm going to assume that they call you by what you look closest to.

There's nothing wrong with this. You can ask them, but they'll occasionally forget. Don't get so butt flustered over someone not calling you by a silly name, because that's all that it is. I don't get upset when others call me female, neither should you.
However, if you look like a fucked up hermie, I pity you.

>>16541002
> I guess a different way of asking the question: why do you think you should be called 'her/she'?

>>16540840

Rev up those engines boys, time for a troll thread

>>16541022

do you wear typical female clothing? do you apply makeup? do you speak in a higher register than most guys? do you walk with your hips and wear heels? do you style or cut your hair in a fashion typical of females in your immediate cultural surroundings?

do you give off any external factors that would lead someone to the conclusion you are female and treat you as such?

Let's get to the heart of the issue. You hiding a sausage under that skirt or what?

>>16540988
Not always, maybe, depends on you. Check urself in the mirror. Now compare urs>>16541002
>>16540988
Check urself in the mirror. Now compare tht to most males nd females. We rely heavily on our sight as opposed to any other sense nd immediately make connections in our mind. Do u wear make up, walk a certain way, have curves? Female. Do u have short hair, solid features, broad shoulders? Male. The real issue is how u perceive urself, get over other people's mistakes and the pressures of being "politically correct" nd move on. We all have to, especially if u are a mudskin, nigger, gook, fag, belong to a clique, have a standing in a religion or have anything that distinguishes ur identity, our minds are set to give labels to each and every thing we can.

>>16541031
>do you wear typical female clothing?
yes
>do you apply makeup?
no
>do you speak in a higher register than most guys?
yes
>do you walk with your hips and wear heels?
maybe??? no on the heels.
>do you style or cut your hair in a fashion typical of females in your immediate cultural surroundings?
yes
>do you give off any external factors that would lead someone to the conclusion you are female and treat you as such?
i think so?

>>16541048

>i think so?

then you may not be properly objective to evaluate your surface impression you give off of femininity to others.

>>16541051
what? i have male and female characteristics just like everyone does.

>>16541056

i told you already. obviously if people are misidentifying you must have other STRONGER characteristics that give surface impression of NOT FEMALE.

and that you are here asking for help is a strong indicator, you don't know what the problem actually is with you getting the treatment you want from others.

>>16541062
well okay. so what do i do?

>>16541066

i guess take the Xerox business strategy.

goto someone who is either more objectively observant or more objectively feminine and seeks consultation on the subject.

here, you're just an amorphous ball of text if you dont post pics, so.... you're going to get jack shit from these anons

>>16540988
Probably unless you can look 100% passable. I am cis female or whatever, but I look more androgynous since I have short hair and wear hoodies/jeans. I've gotten called "he" enough times that it doesn't surprise me. Looking like I might be a guy, gets me occasionally called a guy.

Obviously it's more emotional for you since you identify as female and had to keep it hidden for a good amount of time presumably, so any setback of not fully being out or accepted hurts. It's going to be a long time before we see people accepting those sorts of things though. We only recently accepted gay marriage, of course there are still going to be people who won't accept transgendered people.

Correct people about your gender once or twice, or if you think they're making an honest mistake. After that, accept that you won't be able to change their views on gender. Sort of like an atheist and a Christian arguing, at some point one has to walk away and realize neither is going to change the other's views.

>>16540909
>>16540911
>>16540979
>>16541036

l have maIe parts if that is what you are asking, but l am a girI regardIess. l have Ionger hair now and a dress, it shouId be obvious by now.

l even have a femaIe name and name tag. What more needs to be done? A Iump in my front area doesn't mean you can caII me "he" aII day.

What can l do to fix this?

>>16541142
No, you are a man.
Thats a scientific fact.

>>16541142
>l have maIe parts if that is what you are asking, but l am a girI regardIess.

OP, very few people are going to even attempt to understand this mindset. To most people, you are a guy that grew out his hair and wears a dress. No one cares that you "feel" like a girl. You're still male. Taking on your culture's stereotype of a woman does not make you a woman. Honestly, this kind of crap just irritates people who have fought against gender stereotypes.

If it bothers you so much, bring it up with your coworkers, but don't expect much unless they are very open minded.

>>16541179
Mostly accurate. Outside of hugboxes like tumblr OP, a lot of people still just plain won't recognize or accept transgender people. Best bet is probably just increasing your femininity as much as possible. If your coworkers are open minded, they'll likely go along with it, but some might just plain not realize you seriously believe you're a girl, even if they don't mean to offend you. Unless they just hate you. Do you look like a girl? Are you on hormones? Do you act like one of those stuck up constantly offended fucktards on tumblr about the 200+ genders/sexualities or whatever?

Why the fuck did you come to 4chan of all places to ask this, at least the /lgbt/ board would be more helpful

>>16541216
Can't speak for others but what makes me incapable of accepting the "I have male parts, but I am a girl regardless" statement is that it doesn't acknowledge the fact of the matter, but instead sounds to be forcing others to accept something that is untrue. To sway me to calling you a her/she OP is that you simply have to acknowledge that you are a man that wants to be called a woman.
If you can't do that OP then you have a deep issue with insecurity, and need to grow up.
I have no issue with people being trans, but thats only if they admit to who they really are. I hate how that some of the community is pursuing to ignore the scientific facts behind gender, and use it arbitrarily. Gender is not an opinion it is not relative.

>>16541142

If a lump in your front doesn't make you male, then what does in your mind?

>>16541268

it actually has to do more with OP's world view.

If they want to be more engendered as female, then they have to qualify what it means to be female.

Is their world view one that accepts that there are actual fundamental differences between men and women? If they view gender as a societal construct, then of course they view it as something highly variable, subject to their understanding of their place in society. If not then the answer to their question changes.

The advice OP wants is nowhere to be found here. OP needs professional help beyond the boundaries of advice.

>>16541142
Stop being a puss. If s.o. identifies and calls you male, its not due to durr so sexist hurs stahp oppressing me. Its because of common sense that someone tries to attach pronouns to you. And if your identified as male, you seem male.

Wanna be a real girl? Go have hormonal therapy, get proper boobies and cut off that dick. Otherwise your just some kid in their teens thinking about how special they are.

OP, first off don't listen to any of these autistic, closeted fags in this thread.

As to your question, my suggestion is to just communicate diplomatically. Find a way to productively talk to your coworkers about it, let them know it's important to you, and most importantly understand that you're asking for their respect. You're not gonna undo a lifetime of cisnormative views on gender and sexuality in one conversation, so if you're hostile or shitty about it you'll just hurt your case.

Finally, grow thick skin. I mean it in the nicest way I can. The world sucks and being trans isn't easy, so pick your battles and learn to be less sensitive. Most people don't care or even know anything about what it is to be trans. If you believe you know your own gender, that should be validation enough. If others respect you, they'll work not to misgender you. If they don't respect you, you gotta accept it and keep it from getting to you, girl.

>>16541142
>l have maIe parts if that is what you are asking, but l am a girI regardIess.
I can't process why you would force yourself to go through the agony of going against what you are given at birth. You're arguing with your body and you should know that the world is extremely non-accepting. Where did you get the charisma to go through this knowing everything you do about people? How do you deal with this? What's stopping you from just turning around completely and saying "I'm a man and nothing is going to change that."?

As someone who isn't trans, I don't understand why anyone would want to put on a giant bullseye.

>people should respect my specific standard of equality regardless of their opinions
>even though I dismiss theirs' outright bevause of my feelings

>>16541326
>You should know that the world is extremely non-accepting
I think that's the main reason people are transgender though. They don't feel like they can like the things they like as the gender they were born with. If everything was lumped into the category "human" I don't think people would care about sex changes as much.
That could be wrong, I don't know. Maybe there would still be the body dysmorphia part. But I think it'd be less likely if we didn't make games, toys, and clothing geared towards specific genders. If people were more accepting of everyone liking whatever they wanted, maybe people wouldn't feel like they need to fit specific gender definitions.

>>16540840
>how can i go about correcting them without seeming like a jerk?

Try dressing and acting like your CIS you transgender scum

>>16540840
See this. This right here. You are a part of what's wrong with the world right now.

You expect everyone to suddenly cater to you, and then get upset that they don't.

There are people out there, as a MALE, that are being forced to work or shoot someone as young as 10 years of age.

You're whining that your co-workers don't go along with your make believe "gender transformation" and call you "she".

You are male. There is no escaping that, no matter how much you want to play dress up. Just as much as you can't escape being human and not a dragon or some shit. Personally, if I had my choice, I'd be a badass fucking Wizard, Casting down Blizzards and Fireballs from my ass. I'd want the world to be under constant threat, and to wander it killing whatever gets in my way. I'd make a name for myself. All the bitches would want to fuck the Wizard. We don't get to choose however. Because if we could, I'd choose to be a fucking Wizard. It feels natural to me.

So instead of living inside your head, why don't you sort your shit out and do yourself a favour.

>>16541412
>You're whining that your co-workers don't go along with your make believe "gender transformation" and call you "she".

Yeah while people starve, and people the world over are at war.

Just move on, its a self inflicted first world problem most people arent going to be sympathetic.

>>16540840
if you look androgynous, you can't blame them for guessing (especially cause asking someone whether they're a boy or a girl is perceived as big insult by most people). Consequently you can't blame them for guessing wrong.

only solutions are:
>deal with it
(just say "hey, i'm a .... when they mess up)
or let them call you what they want
>dress more visibly gender-conforming
(really that doesn't mean go full on normie, but something distinctly male/female)
>move to san fransisco.

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>>16541412
>Personally, if I had my choice, I'd be a badass fucking Wizard, Casting down Blizzards and Fireballs from my ass. I'd want the world to be under constant threat, and to wander it killing whatever gets in my way. I'd make a name for myself. All the bitches would want to fuck the Wizard. We don't get to choose however. Because if we could, I'd choose to be a fucking Wizard. It feels natural to me.
you are radiating something fierce right now and I'm loving every second of it

No one is ''misgendering'' you, retard.
If you're ACTUALLY a woman and they call you a ''he'', then all they are doing is calling you a man to piss you off or something. Assuming you aren't some transgender freak, in which case you're only person who is calling yourself the wrong gender.

>>16540840

>misgender

it is not something worth being upset over

you are allready being a jerk

>people literaly trying to adequately communicate with a coworker without having to add fucking gender ideology considerations to a allready stressful work day - interrupt them with xygender bullshit and make the entire workspace feel awkvard and confused

NO

...faggot

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This is some dank ass fucking bait.

ok here's the deal OP
your life requires you to be patient and forgiving and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it

>>16541461
radiating some fierce reddit-tier autism

>>16541142
>l have maIe parts if that is what you are asking, but l am a girI regardIess.
Lold

>>16541326
>you should know that the world is extremely non-accepting
Depends where you are. I'm an ftm tranny and I haven't met any person who'd maliciously misgender me, usually it's just someone being like "hello miss" and then when I speak and they hear masculine voice they're like "oh sorry dude, you just look feminine"
Even people who kek about it talk about me using male name, lol. Like, "so anon has a pussy? huehue" but still using male name. It takes a real stubborn retard to misgender someone when they already function in their desired social role.
Maybe it's different for mtf though since it's harder for them to actually look like a grill to the point most of the people don't realize you're trans. For ftm it's easier, new people are usually surprised when I tell them I'm actually trans (had people asking me if that means I'm gonna cut my dick off, lol).

>>16540924
Because you don't get to choose your biology
You don't get to choose your genes, your associated genetic health. And if you do, it shouldn't change how people go about their everyday life.
Want to dress like a girl? That's your damn problem. People will call you what -they- are comfortable with and if you don't like it you have to change something, not them. They aren't doing anything wrong.

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I identify as a teapot, and it's your problem if you can't accept me!

Fuck off. Or grab my handle and drink what comes from my spout. Either one.

It's incredibly insulting that some men think that they can "identify as women" by simply putting on a dress and slapping some makeup on their face. Is that what femininity is reduced to? Is that what you think makes anyone a woman?

Women have fought for decades, centuries to have the freedom we have now, we're slowly finding where we would like to fit in society and it is an inspiring change. We are women and treated as such from day one. You will never know what it's like to be a woman because you were never and you will never be treated like one. There is an obvious dichotomy of male and female in society, and whether it's a "construct" or not it heavily influences the people we become, and whatever way you were treated growing up it won't matter how many combinations of skater skirts and floral blouses you put on you will never know what it truly means to be a woman because you were not born a woman. You chose to look like one as a man and as such, you should accept that other people won't validate your choice. It's no one's responsibility to cater to your feelings.

I kek'd. Please tell me this is bait.

I'm a girl that constantly has been called 'dude' or 'man' by my coworkers and even my brothers. Get over it and be more confident.

>>16540840
go back to tumblr

>>16541142
This is a troll. I stopped posting and went to bed last night.

>>16541306
Bur
Get a load of this retard
Here's your (you)

>white knighting for a feminine penis

I'd date you, so stop worrying

>>16541754

> mansplaining

Because that's the way it is

>>16540968
Do you mean 'they'? We already have that.

>>16540845
This. Christ you trannies and SJWs need to stop freaking out over the stupidest shit.

>>16541142

Why not just embrace the fact that you have a completely different worldview than the majority of humanity throughout history who believe that your being born w/ male parts (penis, Y chromosome, etc.) means that you should be referred to as a male, no matter how depraved and self-deluded you become, and no matter how many SJWs on tumblr agree to play along with it.

I would respect you a LOT MORE personally if you were just happy to be a man who embraces traditionally feminine ways, rather than forcing your flawed worldview upon others by insisting that they use what they believe to be a delusional pronoun.

>>16541641
Can you outline exactly what femininity is, then? I would really like to know how you define it. It's more than just physical characteristics obviously, and I've always identified more with femininity than masculinity. In a cultural/social sense, and a more subjective sense.

All this gender shit is simply 21st Century mental illness

These people are literally sick in the head. What a fucked up world we are living in

>>16540880
lol
>this don't make no fuckin sense this ain't english

>>16542254
You mean you identified with the clothes, you thought they look pretty? What makes you think you know how a woman feels?

For me to give you a good explanation I would have to be on the other side and to know how men are raised and treated, what they aspire to do due to social stimulus and all other intricacies that separate them from women.

All I can say is that if someone suddenly changed my appearance into that of a man, that wouldn't make me a man, just like of you change yours into that of a woman that doesn't make you one - even if you like looking like one. And I wouldn't necessarily dislike looking like a man, but it would be an incredibly irrelevant and superficial factor that would not define anything about me - the same would apply if I suddenly woke up and looked like an alien, or a different race. It would be irrelevant to my personality and who I am. I was born and raised a woman. I went through childhood as a girl, and through the struggles of puberty that gave me wide hips, stretch marks and painful periods every month. I had to tolerate creepy old men claiming I look "much older" like most girls have experienced in their childhood and early teens. I had to take the responsibility of preventing pregnancy upon myself from the moment I decided to become sexually active. What made me a woman wasn't some "hormonal secretion" that made my brain "think it's a woman". There is no such thing as a female/male brain, scientifically proven. What made me a woman was the collective collaboration of all biological and sociological experiences that are part of mine and any other woman's life that no mtf trans will ever go through.

To reduce all of that to some clothes, makeup and surgery is highly demeaning and shallow.

I understand you completely OP. I was born as a fruitkin, though it's harder to specify because I also have multiple beings living inside my head. Somedays I identify as an apple, some days I feel like an orange, and even a banana sometimes. I'd say I have at least eight headmates in my brain at the current moment, but the number is ever-growing.

Living is a constant uphill battle. Society doesn't recognize me as a fruit, as what I believe and feel I was born to be, not to mention the extreme prejudice disguised in "normality." I forbid my mom from going shopping and buying my relatives like slaves, offering them to me like I'm a cannibal. If I'm ever at a store and I see someone trying to buy a fruit I'll stop them. All fruits should be free. But it still comes to me sometimes and I just can't handle it. On my birthday of all days this year one of my friends brought a fruit salad to the party... I broke down. I locked myself in my room and cried for twelve hours straight without eating anything. Just imagining the suffering and all those chopped off limbs lying there. I still can't get the picture out of my head. It haunts me.

I'd say never let the world get you down. You are whatever you feel like. Fight on and know that someday they'll recognize you. Vibe on, my good chum.

Oh my fucking god

They are not misgendering you, you are misgendering yourself you dumb asshole.

They actually got it right. You got it wrong.

Bitch.

>>16540840

>teehee when I wear a skirt and a wig I'm a girl, but when I wear a beanie and jeans that means i'm a guy!
>don't misgender me cis shitlords

get bent

A while bunch if faggots here and I'm not sure if OP is still here but if you want advice just approach them and tell them how you would be preferred to be called. If the initially misgender you approach HR. Thats it, take initiative if you don't want people stepping all over you.

>>16542640
>if you want advice just approach them and tell them how you would be preferred to be called

But before that be sure to prepare yourseIf for every singIe person around you Iaughing in your face and immediateIy ignoring your request.

>>16541306
>OP, first off don't listen to any of these autistic, closeted fags

>tfw you just described OP

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>>16542498
you're easily the best poster in this thread. your thoughtful responses are awesome! :)

ofc i do take issue with some of it. like how you're really the one reducing my femininity to painfully shallow extremes, even though you admit to not being able to speak to anyone's subjective experience except your own. at best i think you could say that you simply don't know if my psychological experience is feminine. unless you're saying that the greater psychological experience of "womanhood" is based entirely on societal/cultural pressures. which would kinda seem reductionist in a different way.

anyone who's taken even basic high school sociology learned about "feral children", particularly that one girl who received almost no human interaction for the first several years of her life. is she not a woman? or even a human. we could take that a step further and say there's potential for a person to survive with absolutely NO human interaction. maybe as like a sick and immoral experiment. would such a person be lacking a gender, having not been socialized into one? sorry if that all seems ridiculous. i like to think about these things.

i really struggle to define just what femininity and masculinity are. and i've tried so hard in the past. it makes me feel a little better knowing that most people are the same, like you trying to explain what it means to be a woman. you could argue that i can't be a woman because i lack the social AND physical experiences of being one, and you're probably right to some degree. there is definitely something that separates me from "women", the group. but there's something entirely different that has always prevented me from ever belonging to the "men" group.

like i said before, i always fail at expressing my subjective "female" experience to other people. so don't take this next part as reducing psychological femininity to stereotypes. i realize it's lacking, but this is my best attempt.

fuck char limit

>>16540951
>it bothers me when people misgender me. you probably wouldn't like it either.

No. l don't have a Iump in my pants so l don't make any cIaim l am a guy. Because science and there's IiteraIIy nothing l can do that wouId justify caIIing me a maIe.

l am femaIe because l am a femaIe. You are a maIe who wants to be a femaIe and is pissed the worId is smart enough to go by science fact.

You need to put your iIIness aside and accept what you are, a maIe. There is absoIuteIy no other answer to this. You are a maIe no matter what and aIways wiII be.

>>16544029
>really struggle to define just what femininity and masculinity are

Doesn't matter. No matter how fruity or how much make up you put on, you're a guy.

They are going to Iaugh in your face if you try to convince them to pIay make beIieve because they aIso know you're just too stupid to accept what is correct.

You wiII never be a girI and it's not them with the probIem, it's you that can't accept it for some reason. That is your probIem stemming from your own iIIness, not theirs.

>>16544029
continuing~

traditionally "feminine" traits include patience, submissiveness, a capacity for caring/compassion, and deep emotional understanding. this describes me pretty well. with men i always take on the caring/submissive role. my life basically revolves around caring for others, from work to friendships. and i do have a lot of patience when interacting with other people. but it really goes beyond actions and interactions with other people. like it's my heart; the way i experience and take in the world. i really wish i could explain. again i'm not saying that to be a woman you have to be motherly or submissive. it's something deeper and more meaningful than that. these are just some examples of how my inherent femininity is expressed. it's been very confusing honestly. i was never what i was supposed to be, according to the social pressures i faced.

and i'll never be able to express it. so you don't have to accept it.

but i am so much happier now presenting the way i want to. more confident. more capable, and an all-around brighter person. it's not just clothes and makeup; i'm expressing myself without holding back nearly as much. i feel free and alive, after spending my entire childhood repressed and full of self-hate. so i really don't understand why anyone would refuse to call me "she". you seem to think my existence is harmful to the legitimacy and truth of femininity. like i can somehow devalue the human concept of womanhood.

i don't want to be a detrimental force in any sense, and i don't believe i am. it hurts a little that so many say i don't have a place in the shared human experience. i tried for most of my life to be male. it never worked, as i was never fit for masculinity. why is it such an awful thing to call me "she"?

i'm sad now.

>>16541142
born a guy
are a guy
that's it
you're done

>>16544088

>it hurts a little that so many say i don't have a place in the shared human experience.

you're over-dramatizing.

the blunt and caustic reaction to your situation is due to your initial premise that other people who are just as much trying to have their human experience are somehow horribly wronging you, and then pleading ignorance in your 2nd post

>>>16540873
>i'm a girl but they call me "he" and i'm not even sure why. might be to piss me off or could even be a weird religious thing

your defense mechanism was to lie and obfuscate knowing the reason, and you got called out on your bullshit.

your other defense mechanism was to deflect because of course its the other people's fault, especially those weird religious people who make an easy scapegoat. I'm surprised some hadn't called you on that bullshit, too.

human experience? Guess what, you're just as human as everyone else, capable of lying, projecting, manipulating just as much as the next lump of flesh.

but to address your original post, for a woman you're displaying a truly gaping lack of empathy for the workplace situation you gave an example. this anon said it best:

>>>16541489
>people literaly trying to adequately communicate with a coworker without having to add fucking gender ideology considerations to a allready stressful work day - interrupt them with xygender bullshit and make the entire workspace feel awkvard and confused

the workplace is for WORK recognition. go somewhere else for other recognition.

>>16540944
get killed

heaven knows you don't have to go far online to find a social media group dedicated to something like this...

ALERT

Anyone responding to this thread seriously have posted in a troll thread. No faggots outside of Tumblr actually believes in this bullshit.

File: baitgif.gif (3MB, 500x207px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 500x207px

>>16544088
>>16541142

yeah fuckin right
3/10, got me rustled

Serious response:

There is an lgbt board.

You should also just correct people. Don't feel awkward about it, but if you let it slide then it just creates confusion and confrontation.

>>16544280
>you're over-dramatizing.
maybe a little. can you blame me? just look at all the shit people were saying here. it's like this all of the time on the internet.

>the blunt and caustic reaction to your situation is due to your initial premise that other people who are just as much trying to have their human experience are somehow horribly wronging you, and then pleading ignorance in your 2nd post
no, the blunt and caustic reaction is due to 4chan assholes being assholes.

>your defense mechanism was to lie and obfuscate knowing the reason, and you got called out on your bullshit.
>your other defense mechanism was to deflect because of course its the other people's fault, especially those weird religious people who make an easy scapegoat. I'm surprised some hadn't called you on that bullshit, too.
>human experience? Guess what, you're just as human as everyone else, capable of lying, projecting, manipulating just as much as the next lump of flesh.
i really don't know about all that.

>but to address your original post, for a woman you're displaying a truly gaping lack of empathy for the workplace situation you gave an example.

>the workplace is for WORK recognition. go somewhere else for other recognition.
so my presence is a distraction in the workplace? and asking someone to use very basic pronouns in reference to me is like a personal affront to them? i see some parallels between my situation and some other woman being called a distraction for having breasts, and wanting her fellow employees to stop calling her sugartits or something. i don't want to add any stress to the workplace, but i am stressed out when i have to put up with this shit. fuck.

>>16544326
you missed this:

>>16541735

>>16544408
The sugartits example is a total false equivalency. Most people don't run into trans people in their day to day life, and interacting goes way beyond just using the right pronouns. Socializing is incredibly complex, made up of countless unwritten rules, doctrines, and rituals. Imagine how much things get screwed up when they encounter a woman who is obviously a man, who is insisting to be called she and her.

People can't just shake that they're speaking to someone whose gender and sex is all switched around. The workplace is not the kind of arena to tackle something so intersectional and personal. Deal with it, and have a workplace you vs the real you. Everyone else does it

>>16544436
How is it a false equivalency? Just because my situation is less common? That doesn't make any sense. And I shouldn't have to hide myself away at work. It's almost 2016. Isn't it okay and normal to be trans now? :(

>>16544485
Sugartits is literal sexual harassment, whilst being misgendered is absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with being trans, but you have to understand why it's so difficult for other people. You can't just exist in a society where everybody caves to you

>>16544485
Are you literally a troll?

>>16544519
I'm literally going to bed again. Really hate how complicated this bullshit is :(

Night I guess adv.

>>16544408
>i really don't know about all that.

no? sounds like you have bigger personal identity problems regardless of what gender you're trying to identify.

>so my presence is a distraction in the workplace?

yes,dammit,if you're asking for recognition for something other than working. What are you, 12 years old?

>>16543043
Honest to god have you worked with people in an official capcity before. They won't and shouldn't care why the fuck woukd they?

>>16544330
Not not OP but fucking thank Christ one person attempted some advice.

>>16540840
What is the implication of OPs picture?

Is "Cisnormativity" a new thing, now? You know what I DON'T want to be called as a "cisgendered" man? Cisgendered.

I can respect calling you either gender or "they". But I don't see how you're able to look someone in the fucking face and say, "don't call me what I don't want to be called", and then do the exact same thing to me.

Fuck you.

Don't be a politically correct Faggot. Civil rights in America didn't happen over a century ago. Stop expecting purple to understand things that are emerging.
This is what's wrong with the homosexuals.

Ps. West Hollywood is no place for a child. Those faggots are why gay people get hate.
I guess boys will be boys, but Fuck those guys.
Fag bashing is alright in my book until they learn some respect

>>16544029
>reducing my femininity to painful extremes...I guess the best you could say is you don't know if my psychological experience is feminine
I could, but you said it yourself that you've been treated most of your life as a man, or tried to be a man for most of it and didn't like it. So now we know that it isn't the case that you grew up and mommy and daddy forced you into a dress and called you daisy, or that any of the rest of the world treated you like a girl. For all intents and purposes, you've experienced your life as a man and you have no idea of what being a woman entails. Which brings me to my next point.

>don't take the next part as reducing women to stereotypes...feminine traits of submissiveness...how I take in the world
Is this what you think being a woman means? Being emotional, caring and submissive? If you think all women are this way then you are sorely mistaken. I don't particularly identify with any of these traits, but I don't feel the need to go on HRT treatment and call myself John. I'm me, and I'm happy with that. You aren't, clinically. And as a means to treat that, you were given subjugation to your condition instead of the motivation to fight against it to be who you truly are.

There's more. 1/2

>>16544088
>>16544717
You think women "take in" the world differently? We don't. We just do it with a vagina instead, and we are treated as women instead. Anything about being a woman to you is just an interpretation of it, what you "think" women are like and you seem to be dead wrong about everything. When women put on dresses, makeup and do girly things it is because it suits us. A fitting dress will enhance our figure, makeup will make our faces prettier. Do the same thing to a man and all you have is a man in women's clothing.

>the feral child with no human interaction - is she not a woman?
The little human interaction that she had taught her that she was. For all she knew, she was a girl on a chair wearing a dress. That was all she knew about the world until the age of 9. But if you set children free into nature and see what happens as they develop, boys and girls are basically indiscernible. Any gender-based behaviour would only appear much later with sexual maturity, and it would be purely instinctive and in regards to who does what during sex and what's required to protect the pregnant female. This is the basis for the whole "gender is a social construct" thing that all of you spew at us all the time. So it is, which means that you're fighting to become something you don't comprehend (womanhood) which is entirely fabricated in the first place and in any other circumstance wouldn't dictate any aspect of one's personality (and in the real world it doesn't).

>I was never fit for masculinity.
What?
Again, you seem to be seeing things in black an white, or rather, blue and pink. Being a man doesn't bind you to any social responsibility on how to act, what you like or what you do. You can be as caring, emotional and submissive as you like as a man.

I miscounted, 2/3

>>16544029
>>16544088
>>16544722
Cont'd.

There is no such thing as "feminine/masculine emotions", there's only you and the person you want to be. And when you want to be a man in a dress, the message that you're sending out is that you're deluded - particularly so about gender roles.

>I'm sad now
And finally, no one cares that you're sad. No one is in this world to pander to your "feminine" (pfhhhhhh) feelings. You chose to put yourself in this position and as such, anyone's behaviour towards you should come as no surprise so don't bother trying to change it.

>>16541022
ugh i hate the games you have to play with trannies to get actual answers

were you BORN a girl

>>16540924
Pssh I'm sure most people here if confronted in real life would just say "k I'll call you whatever" then just talk shit when you leave.

Look, disregarding the possible legitimacy of the "gender"debate, this is still your fault. A work place is meant to be professional and its workers efficient. This usually means all workers either where the same uniform or dress in the same manner. It's not a place to make a statement or declare an identity. You're there to work and that's it.

Gobble up this bait fellas

>>16544568
>no? sounds like you have bigger personal identity problems regardless of what gender you're trying to identify.
what are you even talking about?

>yes,dammit,if you're asking for recognition for something other than working. What are you, 12 years old?
it's not recognition i'm asking for. i just don't want to be discriminated against, which is what is happening.

>>16544717
>I could, but you said it yourself that you've been treated most of your life as a man, or tried to be a man for most of it and didn't like it. So now we know that it isn't the case that you grew up and mommy and daddy forced you into a dress and called you daisy, or that any of the rest of the world treated you like a girl. For all intents and purposes, you've experienced your life as a man and you have no idea of what being a woman entails. Which brings me to my next point.
so yet again you're reducing gender purely to socialization. which as we all know is a woefully lacking understanding of human gender. if all it took wa the socialization, David Reimer would be living happily as a woman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

>Is this what you think being a woman means? Being emotional, caring and submissive? If you think all women are this way then you are sorely mistaken. I don't particularly identify with any of these traits, but I don't feel the need to go on HRT treatment and call myself John. I'm me, and I'm happy with that. You aren't, clinically. And as a means to treat that, you were given subjugation to your condition instead of the motivation to fight against it to be who you truly are.
those are of course generalities that don't apply in all scenarios. what i was trying to get at and ultimately failed apparently is the underlying motivations behind my stereotypical feminine traits. it's this inherent and strong FEELING of feminity that i can't really put into words any better than you can.

>>16545669
>what are you even talking about?

Someone said "Guess what, you're just as human as everyone else"
And you said "i really don't know about all that."

Care to explain?

>>16544722
>You think women "take in" the world differently? We don't. We just do it with a vagina instead, and we are treated as women instead. Anything about being a woman to you is just an interpretation of it, what you "think" women are like and you seem to be dead wrong about everything. When women put on dresses, makeup and do girly things it is because it suits us. A fitting dress will enhance our figure, makeup will make our faces prettier. Do the same thing to a man and all you have is a man in women's clothing.
and now you're reducing femininity to having a vagina, and other physical characteristics? why would you even bother stating you feel offended by people like me falsely associating with your gender if all it really is comes down to your vagina? is "doing it with a vagina instead" so important it needs protecting from the invasive transgender threat?

>>16545680
Curious what you think about that white woman who said she was black.

Everyone made fun of her but if you can think you're a woman why can't she think she's black?

>>16544722
>The little human interaction that she had taught her that she was. For all she knew, she was a girl on a chair wearing a dress. That was all she knew about the world until the age of 9. But if you set children free into nature and see what happens as they develop, boys and girls are basically indiscernible. Any gender-based behaviour would only appear much later with sexual maturity, and it would be purely instinctive and in regards to who does what during sex and what's required to protect the pregnant female. This is the basis for the whole "gender is a social construct" thing that all of you spew at us all the time. So it is, which means that you're fighting to become something you don't comprehend (womanhood) which is entirely fabricated in the first place and in any other circumstance wouldn't dictate any aspect of one's personality (and in the real world it doesn't).
And now we're back to the David Reimer thing. But other than that, you think gender first came about as a purely instinctive thing based on how sex happened and who needed protecting? well, if those are the ancient origins of gender, then could the sex i have maybe help to inform my gender? because the sex i've always had has placed me in that traditionally "female" role.

if gender is all "entirely fabricated" in the first place, then why are you so offended about my assertions that i am a woman? you're contradicting yourself quite a bit. also, you're the only one here insisting that gender is purely social. i don't believe it is, no matter what others trans people may have said to you in the past. i'm not them, and i've studied this a ton trying to understand myself.

>>16544722
>What?
>Again, you seem to be seeing things in black an white, or rather, blue and pink. Being a man doesn't bind you to any social responsibility on how to act, what you like or what you do. You can be as caring, emotional and submissive as you like as a man.
we can differentiate between masculinity and being a man physically. or i can. you might not be able to see the difference.

>>16544725
>There is no such thing as "feminine/masculine emotions", there's only you and the person you want to be. And when you want to be a man in a dress, the message that you're sending out is that you're deluded - particularly so about gender roles.
don't call me a man in a dress please.

>>16545690
don't be ridiculous please. we have neurological evidence suggesting that transsexualism is a legitimate thing that happens. i'm not the one here trying to reduce gender to socialization.

I'm a skinny-ass dude with long hair. I've been mistaken for a chick before. A couple times even had the joy of seeing a dude's immense disappointment and embarrassment when they were tryna holler at me from behind and I turned around, lmao. This obviously doesn't bother me.

I would recommend NOT going on 4chan to ask about trans-sexual specific issues, unless you're looking to justify your entire lifestyle to multiple people. Surely there must be better places for this.

Nothing conscious, but I do have an intrinsic sort of disgust for MtF transsexuals. Sucks for you guys, I've met a couple of people like that that were alright folks. But boy, I just can't stop making my skin crawl whenever I come in contact with 'em. Just creepy. Maybe part of where I grew up.

Anyway...uh...good luck!

>>16545669
>i just don't want to be discriminated against, which is what is happening.

Look m8, you have to understand that despite tumblr and lgbt propaganda, 99 percent of people simply won't conform to the idea of calling a man (born and raised as a man, with male genitalia) she, and use female pronouns for his content. You can either deal with that or change the job.
Realise that the reason why most people won't accept that, is because the very notion is against the nature as we know it, and the deeply ingrained notion we have since the very beginning of time that girls are girls and boys are boys. For many people accepting homosexuals is a strain, even though homosexuality is relatively 'normal', as it appears in different species, and humans too, had a fair share of homosex in the past.

However changing your sex on a whim is a new concept, and it doesn't work that well, as we can see. Maybe it will change with time, maybe won't, but don't expect people to just agree with your whims. I understand you're open minded, not everyone has to be as well, though.

>it's this inherent and strong FEELING of feminity that i can't really put into words any better than you can.

You can't 'feel' feminity because you're not a woman. Similarily, I can't feel masculinity, because I never got to experience being a man, and by that I don't mean wearing male clothes and a fake dick, I mean being born and raised as a guy. See, thing is, you can try as hard as you want and yet in many eyes (mine included) you'll never be a real woman, not only because you don't have a real vagina, boobs, uterus, period, XX chromosoms, and so on, but also because your idea of being a woman is from a perspective of an outsider. I can't explain to you what womanhood means, because I would had to take you to a tour across my childhood and teenage years and so on, and somehow (telephatically maybe?) go with you through all my milestones (period, sex, childbirth, hormonal changes, etc)

>>16545744
THIS, THANK YOU, very well put post.

>>16545744

>changing your sex on a whim is a new concept, and it doesn't work that well, as we can see

It's not a whim. And "it doesn't work well' is a bullshit argument coming from your perspective.

It's like if I shaved my head, got a big swastika tattooed on my chest and never wore a shirt, hung around in front of a refugee home in order to throw empty beer bottles at it, and then said: "Well, you see how badly it works with these fucking immigrants."

>>16545744

Please stop conjuring your silent majority of "99%" of people as if that was a relevant point.

>>16545669
>David Reimer
His parents admitted to lying to the doctors on numerous occasions (possibility about not treating him as a girl to full extent? Parents would struggle with that), and he decided to return to being a man AFTER being told that he was originally born a male. Does that not ring any bells? Not to mention the obvious abuse they endured by doctors, which would scar them for life (as it did). Also, that's tiny sample size to draw a proper conclusion from.

>feeling of femininity
That's not a thing, just like the stereotypes you mentioned aren't. You're reducing a whole group of people to the most basic, unrealistic things associated with us. Your cross dressing and "acting feminine" is comparable to blackface.

>>16545680
>is "doing it with a vagina instead" so important that it needs to be protected from the invasive transgender threat?
Yes. Being born a woman is something that needs to be protected, just like being born a man is. When people claim they "think and feel like a man/woman" they are reducing people to stereotypes. People are people. Our gender roles are secondary to that, and that is precisely what women have been trying to prove for centuries - we aren't all the stereotypes that are assigned to us. We can do everything a man can do, and we want to. As I said, we wear clothes and makeup because it's flattering. Men wear suits because it's flattering to them. These things aren't tags or identifiers, they are social convention. Switch it around and you have a bunch of freaks who just don't get that and meanwhile reduce genders to stereotypes.

>>16545711
>don't call me a man in a dress please
But that's what you are. Unless you get rid of the dress, then you're just a man.
But putting on a dress doesn't make you a woman. Neither do hormones or surgeries. It just makes you a man in a dress with hardcore body modifications.

>>16545768
By it doesn't work well I meant that there's still a high rate of suicides among people with gender dysphoria who transitioned. Changing your exterior, so to say, in many cases still doesn't grant feeling okay with yourself, or being happy.

>Please stop conjuring your silent majority of "99%" of people as if that was a relevant point.

But why? World is ruled by the majorities, my friend. Sure, we know now that, from historical standpoint, majority was wrong many times in the past, I'm not saying with that issue is different. However the idea is new, and you can't expect people to be okay with this just like that. Again, it will take time, at best. And it's not an easy task to convince this 99 percent of people that there's nothing wrong with changing your sex, since it goes against our biological nature, etc, etc.

>>16545777

>Being born a woman is something that needs to be protected

Protected from what? How is a biological fact in danger? Does it need to be protected from a tiny amount of victimized people that have no power in society? That are about as relevant to most people as their thoughts and emotions are - not at all?

>I feel like a man/woman

You probably can't understand the sentiment because you just feel like a normal person. No matter your misgivings and sufferings and whatever else you experience, there's a certain part of you that others experience as genuine, and that you can experience as genuine. That part of you, as you also say with such pride, is your vagina.

>these things aren't tags or identifiers

Of course they fucking are, get off your high horse. You're being fucking retardedly choosy about your position. You're taking one thing that fits nicely and disregarding a million others. The person you are talking to takes stereotypes like they're their fucking lifeline. Of course they don't know what being a woman is, but I, as a man, can confidently say that I don't know what "being a man" is, either. The only difference is that for reasons of dick, people will still believe me that I'm a man even if I turn myself upside down and do all kinds of shit. The things you are saying just turn into some sort of super-biologistic bullshit where you act like the accidents of culture are completely meaningless to anyone's identity, only their sex organs count anything. If people are really people, why does everyone have to think and feel like you? And, more than that, why do they have to feel in accordance with their genitalia, if - by your assertion - all the things on top of genitalia are basically meaningless, empty, exchangeable things - outside of what the fuck to wear? (Which is why historically, humans in Europe always wore the exact same things).

Sigh. You're a fucking tool, just let me say that. This rant doesn't even have room in the comment

>>16540840
You even consider for a moment that your personal choices and viewpoints are yours? I mean only a FASCIST would want everyone to see the world the way they do.

Whatever gender fluid bullshit you wanna spew is fine with me, I mean I am all for people being individuals and I can respect you for it however, I don't have to like you or accept it as being normal.

Cry more.

>>16545744
absolutely based. fucking nailed it

>>16545809

Well gee whiz, why would a person that nobody takes seriously, whose experience and feelings are questioned on an institutional level, and who is overall made to feel like a bag of shit ever commit suicide, I freaking wonder! How could they have ever felt bad? Huh!

>friend

I'm not your friend. The point of stating a majority is implying they justify your point. It doesn't matter if people are okay - what I can expect from them, though, is realizing that another human's feelings and experiences are somehow relevant. If they live in a world where these things aren't relevant, then that already explains a lot. Calling someone by a different pronoun or giving their identity some other basic recognition is an act so laughably fucking easy that it seems impossible that people like you suggest instead that the other person change their base identity or - hence the high suicide rate - simply die.

>>16545830
>you take stereotypes as your lifeline
Yeah, and that's why you're fucked up. I used the word "protected" in response to your sentence, just to illustrate that the way men and women look and act in society are standard things that are maintained for numerous reasons (if a woman wants a job we go for pencil skirts, if a woman wants to get some we go for revealing clothes, the same as men), but they are maintained within the gender boundaries because once you step outside them it's hard to take you seriously. I mean, if you can't even separate the person you are from the clothes you wear there must be some serious soul searching you have missed out on. If you think that all women are are people in dresses with "fragile" feelings, again, you're wrong. Not understanding what being a man entails doesn't make you any less of a man, it just means that you need to figure out what kind of man you would like to become.

>>16545744
This is what I've been trying to say, but with far less articulation and directness.

i'm actually getting kind of upset now. i've really tried to take you people seriously but you don't even seem to understand gender as modern psychology describes it. socialization and the experiences a person has definitely can be (and often is) a large piece of what makes up a person's gender. i haven't shared all of the same experiences as most women, nor have i shared all of the experiences common to men. this doesn't mean i lack a gender.

i don't think i want to talk about this anymore. the blackface thing was especially awful. this isn't something i asked for. i never set out to devalue or mock something sacred. maybe there is something seriously wrong with me.

i'm tired of being made fun of at work. and i'm tired of always feeling unincluded and separate from the cultures that surround me. maybe i'm being overly dramatic again, but it's really easy to understand why so many trans people kill themselves.

>>16545864

I'm not OP, girl. I'm just a random dude who read what you wrote and couldn't contain himself anymore, because your arguments are bullshit and make me feel white-hot anger.

These things in society are maintained because of historical accidents. There is no logical background. Things are not because they make sense, but they make sense to you because they are. You're defending stereotypes in the same breath as you're condemning them. And a person who wants to be a woman doesn't need to be all women. They just want to be a woman. And even that is denied to them, because you can't suffer their existence.

>>16545884
>
i'm tired of being made fun of at work. and i'm tired of always feeling unincluded and separate from the cultures that surround me

This is something you knew would happen when you became what you are.

>>16545884
Jesus Christ. I feel for you, but STOP POSTING ON THIS GOD FORSAKEN BOARD. You will be met only with vitriol and trolling.

If you want your coworkers to call you she, then tell them. Fucking Christ, are you that stupid? "Hey, can you call me by my preferred pronouns: she/her?" It's literally that easy.

>>16545897

>This is something you knew would happen when you became what you are.

Srsly, come and fight me bra

>>16545891
They can't be a woman because they don't know what that means.

>>16545891

>These things in society are maintained because of historical accidents.

Random cunt here chiming in.

I wouldn't make a claim that current prevailing gender roles are solely the product of chance, or "accident" as you put it.

In early human history, gender roles emerged in a way that gave populations an advantage in their given environment. Males of our species tend to have more dominant physiques; or at least it is easier and more likely for males to gain muscle mass. It makes sense to arrange society in a way where the physically weaker sex takes care of household tasks requiring more constant, but less strenuous labour.

Whether or not these gender roles are relevant or useful in contemporary times is up for debate, of course. As is everything else, I reckon.

But it isn't at all proper to say that gender roles have evolved arbitrarily; there at least once was a purpose behind them. Myself, I believe that they are useful today as well. You probably don't, and that's fine.

>>16545856
>friend
>nit-picking that badly

Anyway, anon, one may assume that people with gender dysphoria will never fit in due to their ilness. Sad but also true. They will never completely belong to their 'chosen' sex. It's not only up to acceptance, it's simply the fact that they won't be able to fulfill simple biological function of a sex they've chosen, and that will lead to depression and other issues.

Again, most people don't care about your gender identity; they see a guy in a dress so they call him a guy. They don't dwell on that as much as you do, because they don't care.
We are taught to call things by their name; sure you can pin wings to a cat and call it a bird or call a bridge a tunnel, but where does it leads us, really? Human race is divided in two sexes literally from the beginning of our history, and that's it. You can't change that with a snap of your fingers.

>you suggest instead that the other person change their base identity or - hence the high suicide rate - simply die.

High suicide rate isn't always due to a fact they are not accepted by a society. Very often they don't accept themselves, because even though they've managed to adopt pronouns and have the transition, it doesn't feel right. It's like with every other illnesses, really. When you are depressed and feel like shit even though people may be warm and accepting, inside you still feel like shit. Because there's a chemical imabalance in your brain. It's not always exclusively the fault of the environment.

>>16545897
it wasn't a choice deciding who i am. it was a choice finally deciding to embrace it instead of deny deny deny. not that telling you this helps anything.

>>16545899
it's not just this board. the internet is a place where people can express their true feelings without much fear for repercussion. in real life people aren't so upfront about their feelings, but....

i can't even explain. what i want is for this to not ever be a big deal. if i could go to work and do my job without the gender thing playing a big role i would be overjoyed. but this follows me around and haunts me in all that i do. i had to stop attending a study group because one of the guys there obviously had a problem with me, and later on in class i overheard him ranting to someone else about how "homophobe" is a slur against christians.

i dread going to work. i never wanted to offend anyone or stand in opposition to their religious beliefs. maybe it's all in my head but there are a few people that act very cold and aggressive toward me. when i post somewhere like this, it becomes apparent why that is.

it really feels like i don't have a place in society. i'm tired of seeing these people at school and at work. i wish i had friends. but this is apparently the reality. deciding not to face it won't fix anything either.

>>16545932
It is a choice. You decided to be a women instead of a feminine man or a cross dresser.

>>16545935
my experiences are just as hard to explain as the callous girl's, but that makes them no less legitimate. it gets so old being told that you're both infringing upon something you don't understand and that your own unique experiences are not legitimate to qualify as true or real. do i simply not exist? everyone is quick to inform me that i'm wrong about who and what i am, and in the same breath say that i can't possibly understand their experiences because i wasn't subjected to them.

does no one see this hypocrisy? i feel like i could cry.

This thread is gay

>>16545971
That doesn't refute the fact that anything you understand about womanhood is based off of assumption and stereotypes.

You look like what you look like. The first time people see you, their brain makes a mental profile.

When you tell them to call you X, in order to proceed as you wish they have to practice cognitive dissonance on a level that can override their subconscious 100% of the time.

"gender is a social construct"
So is rape. Doesn't mean it's not real.

Don't flip shit should anyone forget even for a moment to pretend to go along with your world view. Most people are pretty objective. A female in it's natural state is an organism that can give birth. Putting a dress over a dick does not a female make. Maybe is certain circles it does. For 99% of the world it does not.

Realize that you are a special snowflake and know-body cares. People treat you "different" because you are different. Proceed to stop giving any shits about minor shit and move on.

>>16545931

>it doesn't feel right

No. Where do you get that from? It doesn't feel right TO YOU.

There are people who have obsessive thoughts about being blind or having their arm cut off. There was a famous case of a woman obsessed with being blind, thinking she should be blind, who finally got a doctor to blind her. She was super-happy about it. Much like the people who want to live with less arms, fulfilling these desires makes them happy.

Of course that doesn't make sense to you. The whole idea of someone attaining happiness without conforming to your ideas seems quite wrong and alien to you.

>>16540840
In highschool I felt the wrong gender, but as I grew older I learned to accept me for me

>>16545971
Anon, we can assume who you are and who you are not without going into your head, because you gave us enough information to come to this conclusion

>born as a man
>wears a dress and poses as a woman

That's it, that's all we need really. I can tell you with 100% certainty that whatever you feel is nowhere near womanhood/feminity, because you lack basic premises to feel or be 'female'.
You can be at best an imposter, who bases the idea of 'being a woman', like >>16545987 said, on assumption and outsider's view and employs that into real life.

>>16546002
That's assisted self harm and it's illegal, I'm surprised the doctor isn't behind bars.
When a person is at a threat of committing harm to themselves they are placed under surveillance until they get better. That's the whole point of the health system, to prevent people from getting hurt (because disability hinders social progress). So it's totally plausible to frown upon this, the same way that it's plausible to frown upon people who want their gender dysphoria hallucinations legitimised in the real world as their real gender.

Why does Tumblr keep insisting that genders aren't real, sexes are made up and gender roles are bad but at the same time, people suffering from gender dysphoria are trying their hardest to fit in the gender stereotypes. None of this makes any sense...

>>16546041
Yes
WHY

>>16546002
I've read an article some time ago about the issue, can't be arsed to look for sources now, sorry. But yes, indeed, it doesn't feel right to me, (why would it?) but as well it not always doesn't feel right for the person who transitioned. I'm not saying that all trans people feel bad with themselves, but a portion of them, yes.

>There are people who have obsessive thoughts about being blind or having their arm cut off. There was a famous case of a woman obsessed with being blind, thinking she should be blind, who finally got a doctor to blind her. She was super-happy about it. Much like the people who want to live with less arms, fulfilling these desires makes them happy.

Okay, but these people are mentally unstable, and I think there's no question about it. You can't really doubt that people who willlingly blind or maim themselves are fine and dandy? But from what I gather, trans people don't want to be treated or thought of as mentally ill , no? They want to fit into society, and that's where it gets tricky.

>>16545971
I don't see the hypocrisy, only a redundancy, saying in 2 different ways that you are not truly a woman.

How is that hypocrisy?
Can't even read English?

>http://www.ozy.com/immodest-proposal/-a-case-against-sex-change-surgeries/39103

>>16546041
This is exactly what I don't get either...

>gender roles are made up and harmful
>but i am going to identify with a gender based on how i feel my role aligns with the roles of that gender...

you're going to have to post pics OP

>>16546094
no, i'm not going to have to do anything. i've got to go to school now. some time away from the internet will probably be a good thing.

You're blind
A ton of people in this thread have already given their points as to why you can't be considered a woman, and yet you just dismiss it as trolling or "wahh I'm getting insulted for no reason :("

>>16546109
Now you are acting like a woman.

But in all honesty, it is on you to make others comfortable.

It wasn't your choice or fault to be born feeling misaligned with your gender. But it wasn't ours either.
Almost no one would have a problem with you acting like a feminine man.
But as other anons posted you are trying to defy natural law in claiming you are BIOLOGICALY female.
And this I cannot support. No matter what the 900 pound tumblrinas might say there is a difference.

You will never be a woman. You will always be a gay man trying to act the role of a woman. Based off things you think a woman would do/say/think.

There is a reason many trannies dress like stereotypical woman of older generations. Because they think that is what a woman is all about.

And my guess, (being a guy) is that is not accurate (As some femanon stated previously)


In short.
Don't be a faggot trying to be a woman and become a fag instead.
You might be a happier person if you drop all the transexual baggage.
It would also be alot easier on your co workers.

To this I can speak out of personal experience. I know a very obvious transsexual from work and it feels weird tiptoeing around them being constantly worried not to offend them and then them having HR involved.

It's a lot of stress I wouldn't have if he was normal gay guy.

I honestly wish you all the best. Having less depressed people around is better for everyone. But this is on you.
Stop blaming everyone else for your personal problems.

>>16546109
you're right. you should leave. you clearly don't belong here

>>16546041
yeah i've been wondering this too. have they ever come up with an explanation for that?

>>16544485
>lt's almost 2016

PeopIe have been saying this forever

>Oh pIease, it's (insert year here)!

Who cares.

>Faggots wiII never be accepted in society

>Faggots wiII never be equaIs (you have a homo PARADE whiIe peopIe without iIInesses don't have a parade, what the fuck is that aII about?)

>PIastic Iumps fiIIing bras don't make a woman

>A dress doesn't make a woman

>Born with a Iump, you are a man. Period. No way around it but if you're iII enough you might think otherwise

lt's aII iIIness and scientificaIIy proven. No normaI peopIe have this issue. lt's why faggots taIk Iike sissies, dress fucked up, wave their hands Iike they're on fire, dance in circIes and run around with rainbow fIags in their thongs.

Faggotry is iIIness. Gender is science. Neither can be denied with the worId of proof we have.

>>16546750
I think trannies are just parodies of actual women. Even fannel-wearing butch dykes are still more feminine than them.

I don't even know. I've only been around one trans person who couldn't pass for more than a few minutes and I couldn't pull off using the preferred pronouns. Shit can be real difficult when you've gone a lifetime without having to think about the words you're using.

>>16546750
Cutting off apples from an apple tree, pulling off the branches and leaves, and tying palms and coconuts wont make a palm tree, regardless of how much it looks like it.

>>16546193
i'm not saying it's your fault my body is wrong. don't know why you mentioned that.

and another thing i never said was that i am biologically female. i'm not. i'm biologically male and there is no way around that. but we're not talking about sex, we're talking about gender. and i AM a woman. not a gay man. a straight woman.

i can't just decide to be a gay man. all i can do is be myself. i wish you guys understood.

>>16546952
People understand just fine that you're not right in the head man. And expecting anonymous people on an image board made for Taiwanese finger painting just proves the point further. Do you understand why most post-op trannies commit suicide? Because transitioning doesn't work. It won't make you feel better. You'll only get worse because you realize you fucked yourself up and can never go back. I'm very familiar with mental health issues and it makes me sick and sad and disgusted to see people who are so messed up having people tell them they're fine and should be proud of their obvious mental issues.

>>16546952
>yourself
You were born a man and you can't identify as a female, that has been established.
So you're still a man, and you like other men. That makes you a gay guy.

Now get out there, try on some really tasteful mens clothes (suits, jeans, shirts - ysl has a pink shirt in ss16 that's to DIE for) and go pull some fine male gay ass. Maybe grow a beard. It might suit you. Git sum.
And this way, you may be able to love yourself for who you are while people don't have to bend over backwards to pander to your imaginary gender.

OP, I'm so sorry people are being jerks to you. Most people aren't really educated on the subject. Society really sucks but you are great. I admire you so much and I am pretty sure you're a stunning lady. Life is hard and even though it hurts, you should live your life for people who appreciates you and not for the bigots. I love you OP and take care of yourself. You're too precious to expose yourself to all the hate here.

>>16547109
kek, what is that bs?

>>16547124
sounds sorta like a south park reference about caitlyn jenner.

>>16546992
>>16547068
it looks like the thread is basically done with noe, if all it's getting is troll posts from assholes. we'll see if anyone has anything serious to say again but i'm not really holding my breath.

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>>16547109
Oh come on, making shit up isn't 'brave'

>>16547109
You are the fucking problem. How dare you tell someone who's obviously mentally ill that they're fine and strong and beautiful instead of offering advice on how to get better? What does you padding their ego do? Make them feel justified in their self-mutilation so they can just kill themselves later? You disgust me. Get bent trash.

>>16547132
People are saying all serious things. You're choosing to ignore them in the name of your mental illness.

You need appropriate treatment to learn to accept yourself as you are, in your natural male form.

>>16547132
I'm >>16546992 and I'm not trolling. I genuinely feel disgusted when these people tell you you're ok when you aren't OP. You just aren't. It hurts my heart when I think about people like you being told everything is fine and everyone else is the problem because you'll never be better that way.

>>16546952
>can't just decide to be a gay man

Yes you can.

>Choose to be in reIationship with man and be a homo

>Choose to be in reIationship with woman Iike it's supposed to be (how eIse wouId a coupIe produce offspring naturaIIy?)

Those are choices.

>>16547382
i'm pretty sure i'm sterile now anyway, so kids are kinda out of the equation. besides adoption or something, ofc.

>>16540902
>but when they're talking about me is it really too much to ask them to use my proper gender?

They aIready are.

>>16548471
fuck off.

>>16548482

as an aside, I bet you think of yourself as a nice person.

back to the first post. quit looking for recognition while at work for anything other than your job performance.

you're setting yourself up for misery otherwise, because your other co-workers are trying to do the same.

Wether that recognition is just their paycheck, or positive evaluations of their performance, job gratification, or reaching some financial goal, thats what your co-workers are focused on, thats what your focus should be. Anything that has the chance to threaten that, they are going to avoid.

If this misgendering is what you have decided to place at the core of your happiness, you're in for a very bad time. Your co-workers will only see your escalating this issue as a big red HR flag to be avoided at all costs. You will end up isolated because its safer to just not deal with you in their minds. You should leave this job immediately for one where it IS the purpose of the job to get nonstandard gender recognition. That limits your choices significantly to something along the line of political activism.

>>16540968
>male/female is a false dichotomy

Nonsense. Is there such a thing as a "true" dichotomy? Where does that distinction lie?

>>16540840

No, it's not. Not everyone has to buy into your identity. Stop being so narcissistic.

>>16548530
>Where does that distinction Iie?

ln the pants.

>>16548521
Of course I'm a nice person.

Anyway, you know what's not conducive to a productive workplace? A hostile work environment. Don't keep trying to feed me that bullshit about discrimination and rudeness being okay because it's a place of business. It's a backwards as fuck way to see the world.

Post a photo of yourself OP! I want to see what a beautiful woman you are

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>b8 thread
>187 replies

>and later on in class i overheard him ranting to someone else about how "homophobe" is a slur against christians.
some guy had a different oppinion, guess what, that happens to everyone but at least now you can say you're the good one and the victim. good for you!

Tbh I'm all for your right to dress and act as you want, you should be able to expect people to tolerate it, however you can't expect people to accept it and cooperate on it. We don't live in an ideal world and you won't find any /adv/ise here to change the people around you. Either draw within the lines or deal with being scolded every now and then. People will find reasons to mock you regardless.
btw is that pic you? can you show us a pic?

>>16548633
>you'd create a hostile work environment when you're a minority demanding special treatment

>>16540840
>>16540840
Who is this beautiful creature I need to fap

>>16540840
Hi OP, being misgendered isn't taken seriously because scientifically being trans is a mental illness, with nearly half who get the surgery killing themselves.
Accept your birth gender and stop being a special snowflake, you don't get to force people to remember your preferred X, if you want to be a girl go all in with HRT or just accept that you are a guy.

>>16549095
HRT won't change anything.

>>16549095
You have to be like 14 years old for HRT to work. Life's a bitch. If you are unlucky you are fucked and you can only accept it and give up, while getting busy with something else.
As for the OP, I think some people really look like they could be either gender and if they get mad at people asking them the Dr. Oak question it's completely their problem, they are the ones at fault for getting mad and for not looking like a normal person. At least the other person is nice enough to care and ask.
But then again I didn't really pay attention to the original post, sorry.

>>16549111
Looking it doesn't mean they are it.

>>16548791
>>16548857
Why would I post a pic for everyone to see in a thread full of people telling me I'm mentally ill, a bad person, etc?

>>16549614
Go look up Audrey from Big Brother 17, that is a transgender woman who NO ONE has a problem calling "her", because she is wildly convincing to the point where people don't even think about it or care. They know she was born male, but calling her MALE actually goes against instinct because of who she is.

You on the other hand likely look like the trans who tried to meet me on OKCupid - I was genuinely excited and curious first, if she looked anything like Audrey from Big Brother I'd be down for a hookup.

Turned out to be a big nosed dude-lookin' guy in ill fitting clothing and a wig and not even any fucking make up.

>>16549614
You ARE mentally ill. You need to treat your gender dysphoria, because right now you're merely subjecting to it.

>>16541641
This person is right, OP you need to stop acting like you are some type of oppressed person and realize your have a hormonal imbalance and mental issues.

>>16540840
life isn't always fair be patient

So people decided to take a grand stand OP instead of easy appropriate advice. Fuck you guys. I'm a straight american who's been workong for years across the country and if asked to call someone either a man or woman on their request know what a say?

"Sure"

Because what the fuck difference does it make to me or anyone else. I have a feeling a lot of people here in this thread haven't either had a job where they have to interact with a lot of people or are actually in high school and are comparing the experiences between the two.

It is abaird to believe an adult at work would refuse to call someone by their preferred gender pronoun and not because of any progressive reason or political, but because arguing about it would be a headache and nightmare and it would be the easiest thing in the world to just fucking comply. Everyone in this thread however are acting lile OP has the problem evwn though the issue OP brought could be an issue anyone faced, because I know.there are fuck boys here cobfused for girls and vice versa.

>>16549720
I think transgender people ARE oppressed in the sense that if people thought both genders were completely equal transgender people would feel okay. Kind of how we accept that all races are equal to the point that you don't react in a different way if you see a black or a white person.

>>16548633
Being over dramatic again to try and gain sympathy for your position, and nobody's buying it.

Your early posts only said you were dealing with the ignorance in your co-workers you were trying to get around.

Now you've escalated up from active discrimination, to predatory harassment

>>16549748
The problem isn't OP.
The problem is the fact that 1% of the world's population are being told that their mental illness is "part of their personality" instead of being offered proper treatment.
You wouldn't hear anyone saying that to someone with body dysphoria, because they would starve to death. Most people who suffer from GD end up committing suicide regardless if they transition or not. This is not an appropriate treatment, we're trying to do OP a favour and get him to snap out of it.

>>16549777
Nice trips, I honestly don't believe most people in this thread are looking out for OP, or rather, not at first. I'd agree that comments have been trying to show OP the light but thats not what she came in and asked for and quite frankly a lot of people are wrong when it comes to relations in the work place. If she did just ask them to refer to her as a woman I believe most would comply simply because they wouldn't give a shit because its a work mate and you want to finish out your day and get home.

And while I agree trans is a mental issue, its not fucking unheard of to be polite, especially at work where you literally have nothing to gain otherwise. Its like you wouldn't work and continually call a retarded coworker a retard, would you? No, even though you in you're head would call them retarded.

>>16549801
You realize OP never asked them to call him "she" and therefore most likely never told them he has gender dysphoria?

They likely do not even know, and just think you are a man in a dress.

>>16549943
Oh sure, I'm not faulting the people for whatever reason, they probably don't realize. Everyone in this thread are being faggots though wheb the advice is obvious. Correct them and move on. If they continue to do it approach HR.

Be a man.

>>16540924
I'm an atheist, so it's not a religious thing. Unless someone is actually important to me, I don't give a shit what they want to call themselves. I'm going to refer to them as he/she based on their genitalia, not on how they "feel" at this moment.

>why does it matter so much to you guys?
Why does it matter so much to you? I think you should get over it and stop letting words rule your life.

>is it not okay to call someone the pronoun they prefer?
Again, I will do so if someone is actually important to me. But for everyone else, I give no shits. I'm not going to put forth the effort into remembering all the arbitrary pronouns for people I'm not close to.

Hey /adv/ bit of a long shot here but if someone knows anything about tvs you could really save me some time.

I have this dick of a housemate who doesn't have a job, so he just sits in the house and watches tv all day. He's so obsessive over it that he's set up some way to make it automatically make it switch to his favourite radio station loud as fuck when it turns on.

When I struggle to sleep late at night I sometimes watch the news or something to cope, but I don't want to turn the tv on if its going to wake all my other housemates up.

I checked the manual but there was nothing helpful. There was some stuff in there about external controllers that seemed like a plausible cause, but there's no such device plugged in. I already tried the good ol' unplug at the wall and wait 30 seconds and the factory reset option is greyed out for some reason. I don't exactly have loads of time to invest in looking into this, so If anyone has any ideas I'd really appreciate it. Also its an LG 50pt353k.

>>16540951
>it bothers me when people misgender me. you probably wouldn't like it either.
I'm a woman and have had it happen occasionally, because of what I wear. When my guy had long hair, he was constantly called "she" or "maam." We give no shits. You seem to be under the impression that it only happens to people in your situation. It doesn't. Normal people get over it and go about their lives.

>>16550124
And I replied in the wrong tab. Fuck, my bad

>>16550126
A sense of identity is more important to some than others.

Its like being Sikh and people calling you Muslim. For some people these things matter. Actually I'd argue for most people, they don't want to be called gay if they're straight, jewish if they're Christian and so on.

>>16550278
but "gay if they are straight" doesn't apply to the large number of people that still consider LGBT issues to be a mental illness or a moral issue and are still used to the conservative ideas they were brought up with. The reason for them being offended is different than calling someone a different religion or group.

>>16550285
What diffference does it make WHY they're offended by the remark, its universal to not like being called things you aren't

>>16550331
Yes of course but I just mean people don't get it.

>>16540840
I have the most non-denominational boner right now...

>>16550278
ln your exampIe though you can make over 70 different mistakes though, and science can't prove what you foIIow. That is a choice.

For OP, it's

>Guy
>GirI

Science can prove it and you're born with one set of parts (unIess in a VERY rare situation you're a genetic faiIure and have both)

You made a bad comparison.

>>16540840
fag

>>16550355
But what does that matter to you, the psychological versus biological choice someone makes, an adult makes, that hurts and harms nobody, while asking for a modicum of respect especially in the work place?

And please, as much as I agree that science trumps any thing science has been used to argue far dumber and stupider things than something as nebulous and abstract as the human identity and condition

>>16550331
Except that he is.

>>16550480
There is no "biological choice". You are what you're born with.

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Can this thread just die already? I'm tired of seeing this ugly-mug picture and obvious troll post perpetually on the front page, generating no productive advice whatsoever.

For god's sake, at least sage.

>>16550502
Gender is not a body physical thing, it's something you identify as. The only comparisson I can think of right now is how humans are omnivores but you can still call yourself a vegan.

>>16550510
same here, that picture is annoying af

>>16550518
Guys you can click the little minus sign right beside the thumbnail, and the filename. It looks like this -. If you're browsing on your phone, you can turn your phone so it's portrait mode, and you will see the minus sign.

Forgot to add: it'll hide the thread

>>16540851
You're on 4chan and you don't expect to be called a faggot?

>>16550514
You don't "identify" as a vegan, you choose to lead the vegan lifestyle. Anyone's identity is independent of gender, so this psychological gender bullshit is exactly that - bullshit.
There's your personality, and there's your biological sex. Anything else is deluded schizophrenic crap.

>>16550561
People absolutely "identify" as vegan but thats a minor point anyway. Gender is a concept that isn't synonymous with sex, which is a biological fact.

Again, what business is it of anyone if someone identifies as a sexy different from what they're born as, and further more what do you have to gain and lose by adhering to their preferred pronoun?

No consider this question in a professional work place. Is this really the appropriate venue to take a stand against transexuals?

>>16550496
Who's she hurting?

>>16550755
If someone wants to ignore reality and play in fantasy land, they are allowed to do so, but expecting society to behave similarly is just idiotic.

>I'm a one-legged, horse-eating, pirate lesbian vegan with powers from Harry Potter, and if you say otherwise you are oppressing me. You will refer to me as "Lord".

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Apparently you're not very good at being a girl, growing out your hair and wearing girly clothes won't quite cut it. I'd recommend hormone treatment and surgery, become someone a heterosexual guy wouldn't dislike sharing a bed with and you'll notice you'll start being called she pretty damn quickly. Pic related, Sato Kayo, couldn't care less what gender she was born as, I'd definitely cuddle her and thoroughly enjoy her surgically constructed vagina.

>>16550794
In high school sure, good luck telling HR that you're not going to be "entertaining someone's fantasy" and not expect to be fired.

I have to stress that I think Transexuality is a mental issue, but that isn't what I'm arguing.

>>16540840
You are either male or female. If you have a dick, youre a male. If vagina, a female.

>>16550801
You don't say anything to HR. You wouldn't approach HR about a coworker who had other mental illnesses, so why would you approach them about this?

Let them live their complicated, attention-seeking life, and focus on your job.

>>16550807
You goof, the other trans person would approach HR and say you've been deliberately misgendering them, after they asked you not to. What then?

>>16550789
Himself.

>>16550755
I'd let it slide in work, but anywhere else I get the chance to be vocal I will. These people are being offered no efficient treatment for their condition, it's absurd.

>>16550827
How's she hurting herself?

The fundamental thing is they are being treated for their condition, just in a way you don't agree with.

>>16550810
Oh I see what you're getting at.

Basically, the first time you misgender them and it comes to the forefront as an issue - you ignore that person from that point on. That's not to say that you act disrespectful, you just literally avoid interaction with them because you have nothing to gain.

Dealing with and entertaining personality types like that is asking for trouble sooner or later.

>>16550848
There's my point and I'm glad it made sense. That shit, and I've seen it happen over incredibly innocuous shit, will get people fired for fear over a discrimination lawsuit or something along those lines. Its why I stress that playing nice (or your advice, ignore the person best as you can) is the best way to go and why I gave OP the advice they needed. Because it really is that simple.

>>16550867
Yeah man. Stupid people come in all forms. It's best to just pretend they are kids having tantrums and just go about your business.

>>16540840
Sorry Mr., I don't what to say...

Genetics don't lie.

>>16550843
Regardless of any treatment currently offered to them they are still at least 5x more likely to commit suicide than any other person.
>they are subject to ridicule
>to hormones
>to surgery
>family and friends are put through huge stress
And no one's life actually gets saved, the still kill themselves. Do you agree with any of this?

In my state the discrimination laws have not been extended to trans people or even gay people. It's perfectly legal to fire someone for being gay. On top of this, my company is a "Christian" business. I honestly have no idea how approaching HR would turn out.

>>16551114
Then your state has it right. They protect everyone from those with iIInesses and those confused with what's going on in their own pants.

They are heIping you guys by reminding you what you are. PIenty of pIaces don't hire peopIe with iIInesses to keep everyone eIse safe anyway, that isn't new.

lf you can't figure out you're a man or woman, a question with IiteraIIy onIy TWO answers, how can you be trusted with other work where you might have a question with dozens, hundreds or thousands of different answers possibIe?

>Are you a man, or woman?

lf that's too compIicated for you and the entire work pIace can give you the answer (as they have been) then you reaIIy aren't fit to handIe a work pIace.

The acceptance issues you put against yourseIf won't stop here either. Any man wearing a dress won't force 100% of peopIe to caII him a woman. lt's that simpIe.

>>16550810
When wouId you ever be forced to caIIed a man a woman anyway? How wouId this ever be an issue? Just caII them by their name. WouIdn't you be doing this rather than "hey man" and having 40 peopIe Iook at you thinking you're caIIing to them?

Most peopIe aIways just caII each other by name. Your IegaI name is your IegaI name and you CANNOT Iose your job for this. lf the person with the iIIness changed their name IegaIIy to something of the opposite of what they were born as, then you can just say "hey" to them to get theit attention and not even use their name.

There's no reaI issue at aII there.

>>16551004
50% of all marriages end in divorce, pretty high numbers right? Though if you feel its the right move for you those statistics don't really matyer or apply.

>>16551290

I have no idea exactly what you're talking about. Are yiu suggesting removing all pronouns when referring to a specific person at work? Why go through the ridiculous effort, especially when it will probably make your coworkers uncomfortable especially when it becomes clear why you're talking in such a weird way.

These are some pretty archaic views, and you don't even have to agree with trans or whatever. But if your business hires trans people I don't understand what exactly you'd have to lose by referring to their pronouns of choice unless you're deliberately trying to cause trouble.

Nothing is worth being upset over if u can help it, I wouldn't even bother correcting them, fools or the ignorant have their own epiphanies in time, just sit there silently, humble in your own perception, allow them the time to figure things out.

>>16551346
HorribIe comparison

>Marriage ends
>You can marry again as many times as you want

>Person with iIIness who wants to be another gender but can't accept who they are finishes themseIves
>Permanent

You're making no sense.

>especiaIIy when it becomes cIear why you're taIking in such a weird way

That's fine. No one wiII Iose their job because they're not using pronouns so what he said makes sense there.

lf they want weird, they've got the confused guy wearing a dress to Iook at.

>>16542254
I've always identified with tall people (confidence, charisma, physical ability) and I'm 5'6". It's something I've accepted about myself and learned to love. Why can't you learn to love your penis? Not trying to antagonize, genuinely interested in how our experiences differ.

>>16551404
The comparison isn't the point, its that the statistics mean nothing to the individual.

And you can for sure get fired for disrespecting or "creating an unsafe environment" for a trans person by deliberately misgendering them after the fact.

Between a potential lawsuit and your employment the answer would be obvious.

>>16540840
Good lord, what the fuck is that thing? What a fucked generation.

>>16551852
>Not using pronouns

lsn't going to get anyone reIeased from work. Same with caIIing them by their fuII IegaI name.

lf they did go through the troubIe of getting a name change, then you can stiII not use pronouns.

HandIing this situation with such a siIIy iIIness is too simpIe. They can't force anyone to acknowIedge the iIIness, that's the best part.

>>16551346
Marriage doesn't put you through hormones, surgery and the social stigma. Yet people seem to try to justify transitioning regardless of how inefficient it is, ignoring all logic completely. Since your anecdote was shit here's a better one
>Why not let people with body dysmorphia starve themselves to death
>Why not let suicidal people think that wanting suicide is part of their personality
> Why not let people who think they were meant to be disabled hurt themselves permanently
>Why not agree that the schizophrenics friends need to be accepted in society
>Why not consider ocd patients just really tidy people /people with "quirks"

The reason against all of the above is simple: if you present any form of illness you're a liability, a weak chain in the workplace. You take more sick days, you're more likely to die or to attempt suicide, if you attempt suicide and succeed you reduce the productivity of people around you. It's why the government bothers to implement screening programmes - if a lot of people are dying of breast cancer, that's hugely affecting the overall productivity of the country. If 1% of the world's population is dying of thinking they're the opposite sex, and you offer them therapy AND surgery AND hormones and they still kill themselves you're wasting your people's money on a treatment option that has fuckall efficiency. So instead of mutilating thousands of people's bodies and wasting money here's an idea -
Find a way to make them like themselves for who they were born as (because they're mentally ill and their perception of themselves is a side effect) which would be widely accepted by society and they might then end up living long happy lives. It isn't rocket science, people can revert body dysmorphia so they could probably use the same approach for gender dysphoria. They are essentially the same thing, just one is about how the body looks and the other is about how their genitals look/outfits look.

>>16540840
WHAT A MASSIVE FAG

>>16540840
>some of my coworkers misgender me
>correcting them

>Thinking the whoIe worId is wrong because you can't accept what you are
>Even with science proving this at every turn

The probIem isn't them.

>>16540873
>might be to piss me off or could even be a weird reIigious thing

Wow. You are truIy deIusionaI.

>>16545806
This.

>>16545744
And this.

>>16540840
If thats a girl, I would totally fuck it. If thats a boy, gross af.

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>>16553178
It's a male

>>16552036
You think I'm a less worthwhile employee because I may be suicidal? Lol that's so fucking offensive and ridiculous. I really hope the things said in this thread aren't representative of the general opinions people have. Because Jesus. That's fucked up.

>>16553519
I'm saying that the government should fund a treatment for you not to be.
But generally speaking, any illness is a drawback when it comes to the workplace.

>>16553549
Yes, the government should fund my therapy, HRT, and surgeries. Which is the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria.

But all that aside, I'm a great employee. What you said is like saying fat people make shitty employees because they're more likely to die. Sort of.

>>16553575
>effective
>still 5x more likely to commit suicide than the common public, post treatment
>within the first 5 years of treatment, 5-15% of patients vocally admit that they regret it
>that statistic goes up to over 30% within 20 years (that is, if they haven't already comitted suicide by then)
>post therapy, symptoms of gender dysphoria persist. Depression persists. Suicidal thoughts persist.

I'd rather not waste my money on an unsuccessful treatment and the mass hysteria/delusion that the whole trans movement is. You're not being offered treatment, you're being offered a useless cop out.

>>16553575
>Cancer
>AlDS
>Severe Diabetes 9not caused by weight or sugar intake, TONS of peopIe have this naturaIIy/geneticaIIy passed down)

And that's just the top three iIInesses that are actuaI iIInesses (non-mentaI) that are wrecking peopIe's Iives physicaIIy.

You're just bitching because you want to run around in a dress and have peopIe fuIfiII your sick fantasy, and you want tax money to cover the next IeveI dress-up you've got going with surgery to chop your piece off?

PeopIe with your incredibIy sad sense of deIusion are phenominaIIy Iucky to have heaIthy bodies Iacking in reaI disease, and you're at such a pathetic IeveI because the entirety of society (incIuding 100% of the scientific society) is right about you?

You deserve every remark you get in society because you're doing nothing but bringing it down when they're doing their part to make sure their peers and chiIdren don't make the mistake of caIIng a man a woman, or the other way around.

Nothing about this wiII ever change IuckiIy and science is science. lf you're not wiIIing to accept it, you're in for a Iife of struggIe and guaranteed you'II never get what you want. The entire worId caIIing you something you are not wiII never happen.

>>16540840
If you want to be called "banana" tell them "Can you call me banana?" or even be more specific "Can you call me banana instead of apple? I would appreciate that."

Whoever cares about you wont mind changing how they call you, but keep in mind most people are not used to that yet and they will get it wrong for some time. Good luck.

>>16553575
>What you said is Iike saying fat people make shitty employees because they're more IikeIy to die

Someone who is over weight can diet and work out to Iose weight. ProbIem fixed.

A man who runs around in a dress can accept that he is a man who runs around in a dress. ProbIem fixed. Anything more is a just your Iust for a Iuxury because you're someone who is pathetic and Iooking for even more attention.

>>16553902
>You're just bitching

This is so fucking rich, given that the thread is nothing but idiots bitching about trannies. You could just not reply, you know?

>muh science

You know you're just pulling this out of your ass, right? In reality, the scientific consensus is that transgenderism is real, and the debate is about treatment and causes. I mean, who the fuck do you think even came up with the concept? Tumblr? Shit, I bet you do, too...

Are you guys just here to bitch about trannies, or do you post in the other threads about sad frogs moaning about girls, too?

I'm a male and on the phone talking to customers I've been called ma'am twice.
Felt weird.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

If you are a dude and feel you are female, and other people call you dude instead of female, and you happen to get upset by this, you've got deeper problems than body issues, buddy.

>>16550278
>A sense of identity is more important to some than others.
I get that, but I don't think people should let strangers with a lack of information ruin their day. In the end, that's just one small part of what makes you who you are. How an individual takes a remark is still on the individual.

>>16540924
there are right now people planning a colony of humans on mars

and here you are wasting your time thinking about useless retarded shit nobody with half a brain gives a fuck

you're worthless scum
not becuase you're a ladyboy, but because you make a big deal about it

you sack of shit

Fag.

>>16554183
Just because people are going to Mars in 30 years doesn't mean you have to be rude to transngender people especially when it takes zero effort to use a different pronoun.

>>16540840
>HELP THEY CALLED ME ZE WHEN I WANT TO BE CALLED XE WHAT DO I DO GUYS

>>16554190
Man you must've thought cos of the fag love on /b/, it would be the same on /adv/, didn't you?

>>16545999
Your trips gave me some
>cognitive dissonance

>>16547109
Probably OP samefagn

>>16554190
>it takes zero effort to use a different pronoun

lt takes even Iess to just accept the fact you won't change anyone's minds.

"Boo hoo, my gender dysphoria isn't respected by everyone I come into contact with. :,("

You do realize that you have a mental illness, right OP? It's literally in the official list of mental illnesses.

>>16554190
>it takes zero effort to use a different pronoun.
That's wrong though, unless you have to check everybody out to figure out their gender and memorize the list of what they want. For almost everyone picking pronouns is a subconscious act that would take conscious effort to override.

as a woman, I'm offended that you think having long hair, buying a dress, and wearing a name tag with a girl name on it is enough to make you a "woman".

The fact that so many of the stereotypically "feminine" traits are based solely on looks is offensive.

The fact that you think you have any idea what it means to actually be a woman biologically and get periods, breastfeed, get pregnant, etc is offensive.

See? we can all be offended if we try hard enough.

>>16554244
At what point did I say that's all it takes to be a woman? You're just making shit up now.

This thread is basically just trans-bashing now. Pretty sad for an advice forum to devolve into hateful nonsense but I guess that's 4chan.

>>16554190
you have to think about intent. If these people are deliberately being mean to trans people, then that's a bit fucked. But if they're just normal people trying to live a normal life, it's not really their responsibility to accommodate your bizarre quirks. If I'm allergic to shellfish, I'm not going to eat the shrimp cocktail, I'm not going to demand that they bring mozzarella sticks for me because I can't tolerate shrimps.

>>16554236
Is it still not rude to walk up to someone with schizophrenia and yell at them about how they're a degenerate instead of treating them like a person?

Sometimes people aren't sure with gender, but it's pretty fucking commonly decent to respect them if they correct you.

>>16554250
I think the point was not that trans people are bad, or that anon was even actually offended about anything, just that it's insanely easy to contrive a reason to be offended about whatever you want.

There's nothing wrong with being trans, but there is something wrong about getting indignant when people don't go out of their way to do everything in their power to make you comfortable. It's an unnecessary burden your placing on other people, when you could just accept that people are not deliberately doing anything to upset you and it's ridiculous for you to act like they are.

>>16554262
If someone walked up and was like "SCHITZOPHRENIA IS WHO I AM!! DONT TRY TO CHANGE ME, I AM PERFECT HE WAY I AM" then yeah, I would probably tell them that they were fucking insane and to go get some help.
We accept gender dysmorphia like it's in the same catagory as sexual orientation, but it's not.
Denying reality to help someone who suffers from mental illness is not helping them. Transgender people often die young because of all the chemical and hormones that they've been allowed to pump into their bodies. Why are we allowing mentally ill people to mutilate their genitals and poison themselves?

>>16554250
"Why arn't people calling me a woman? I am a woman- I grew my hair out and everything!! Biologically every cell of my body is male, but I wear dresses so I am a woman!!"
(Your initial posts)

>>16554283
I didn't say anything about hair length or dresses until you people were already ranting about it.

>>16540840
Is this bait or is this tumblr, pls go die, you fucking idiot.

>>16540851
Faggot
Fucking faggot
Bitch ass faggot
Bitchassniggerfaggot
Bitchassniggercocksuckingshittyfacefaggot
>faggot
U can leave now

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>>16540944
Youre a saint!

>>16554281
>Transgender people often die young because of all the chemical and hormones that they've been allowed to pump into their bodies. Why are we allowing mentally ill people to mutilate their genitals and poison themselves?
Because that's patently false and not the medical reality. Transpeople kill themselves at a higher rate than non-trans people; that's because of dealing with prejudice on top of their mental illness, not from hormones. There's a reason that dysphoria is clinical, and medically treated with hormone treatments. It doesn't happen overnight and there isn't a better treatment for it, so being upset at all transpeople because you dislike the self righteous retards who yell on the internet is akin to treating all young white males as rapists and school shooters.

I seriously doubt anyone with these volatile views have had any experience whatsoever in their personal lives with a trans person, or they wouldn't act like Mini-Trumps about it.

>>16554497
No the suicide is from dealing with mental dysphoria after the transition. You have a huge bill still feel sad after hacking your body to bits.
How the fuck are hormones going to help a person with depression?

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>>16554545
the hormones make it easier and more comfortable to exist in your own skin. they're definitely not magic and talk therapy is often employed to help too, but for a lot of trans people they help a LOT. having breasts, hips and soft skin makes me feel better about my body. same with laser hair removal. i wouldn't expect you to understand of course, but you asked.

>>16554545
I have a trans partner who still takes T shots every week, has had no surgery, and is much happier for it. It's covered under medical in Canada. Are you talking from experience or from your ass, as if I have to ask?

Clearly hormones don't help depression, but that's a challenge, not a reason to treat people like garbage.

>>16540840
Deal with it who cares

>>16554571
>AII these aesthetics designed to make peopIe with iIInesses feeI cIoser to being something they're not

They're aII just coping devices for those who can't accept what they are.

You cannot force people to see you the way you see yourself. This is why alot of people have a problem with trannies.

>>16554262
>Is it still not rude to walk up to someone with schizophrenia and yell at them

That is compIeteIy different than a man being mad someone referred to him as a man.

At no point did OP compIain about anyone at work running up to him whiIe he was in women's cIothes and yeIIing at him. You're not making sense.

>>16554262
Out of curiosity, if aftet you say i "got it wrong" and I specified i was refering to your biological swx, would you be cool with that?

>>16556379
No one couId Iose their job in this case, since it's technicaIIy and scientificaIIy correct. They may have "wants" in what they "want" to be caIIed and seen as, but "wants" don't need to be compIied with in regards to what they actuaIIy are.

AIso if you are not speaking with them directIy and use he/she with others at your job, they stiII can't do anything about it as it isn't directed towards them. lt must be direct conversation for it to be heId against you. And even then if you don't use he/she when speaking with them directIy, again they can't do a thing.

They're pretty much powerIess in handIing their iIIness externaIIy in any sociaI regard.

>>16540873
>i'm not even sure why.
I bet it's because you're so masculine.

>>16554244
>See? we can all be offended if we try hard enough.

This. You IiteraIIy have to put effort into being offended by not accept what you are.

>>16540840
How on earth are we supposed to know you're a Transgender in.the first place ?

>>16556612
>scientifically

Damn, I wish you niggers would stop slinging around this word as if you actually know what you're talking about. It just makes you look stupid, bro.

>>16556989
Ok, disregard science then, "bro".

>Iump in pants = man
>No Iump = woman

There. No science, just evidence in simpIer terms.

>Denying science to begin with

>l wish you niggers would stop slinging around this word as if you actually know what you're talking about

Why wouId they need to know what they're taIking about when science aIready has aIready proven these facts a miIIion times over?

>>16540840
This is the stupidest, edgier shit term ever. Please, everyone, stop using this stupid term! This is the biggest bullshit since "asexual" people. Chances are that if you identify as "asexual" you're full of shit and anything but.
Grow the fuck up and try living outside your university community.

Fuck this thread.

>>16557390
So we getting that pic or what?