Could Touma win the Holy Grail War?

Imagine Breaker doesn't work on servants because they're already constantly being affected by what is essentially the same thing.

Why isn't that guy just shot dead with a regular gun anyways?

>>162137321
If nasu and kamachi decided to go insane and make a crossover touma would do hilariously poorly in an HGW by the sheer fact that the upper crust of earth that is inhabitable is literally a reality marble that toumas ass would fall right through cause lolIB.
hes probably the very last person anyone would want in an HGW because of that.

Saber gets a gun and shoots him.

>>162137321
Kungfu sensei would destroy him.

>>162137412
kek

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>>162137321
Can Accelerator kill servants?

>>162137321
it's not like he's gonna be able to block every single weapon coming out of the gate of babylon. Berserker's sword-axe isn't made out of magic and is just a rock. There's no way Touma is landing a single touch on Berserker if he's swinging that around and blocking it means nothing. Sasaki Kojiro could just use tsubame gaeshi and it wouldn't matter if Touma blocked 1 of them because they're 3 instantaneous slashes. Mages like Rin, Bazett, and Kotomine are all adept in hand to hand combat and don't need magic circuits to fight a human.

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>>162137388
>the upper crust of earth that is inhabitable is literally a reality marble

wut

>>162137321
It's possible but improbable
So basically just like the real 5th Grail War, and everyone's favorite ginger

>>162137538
You haven't seen how THICCC is his plot armor then.

>>162137388
Alright lets not even assume he would shatter Gaia's reality marble like EA does but literally all the god damn time and gets auto fucked because of it since their functions are similar except touma is retarded and can't turn his off. Lets look at different wars as to how he would do:
F/Z: he literally gets shot by Kiritsugu like when he blew up the hotel Kayneth was in, or Kotomine hands him his ass on a plate.
F/SN:Sword autist would lose if its post current touma in NT, Touma still goes down like a bitch to Medeas kung fu nutter master or kotomine, or HF happens and everything goes to shit for everyone involved.
F/HA hes gonna be doing fuck all but relaxing for a few days then get completely dicked by infinite shadow monsters. Fukou Da.
F/A: Sieg bullshit kicks in and he loses, or he gets his shit handed to him by Karna, Or Achilles since hes literally Sanic tier full retard super speed.
F/Extra: Assuming same rules apply to mooncell as gaia for this thought exercise and touma doesn't end up in fuck knows where, he once again loses to Karna, or Mother fucking Buddha.
F/CCC: i wanna say he loses to Gilgamesh since EA is more liberally abused there and hes actually far more willing to give a fuck cause he likes his master. BB is essentially omnipotent there and i don't see it. Same with Kiara going literal full Beast.
F/SF: hes in america, and hes actively against the american government. Touma has a rather shitty track record going against the american government. this doesn't even include the fact that pretty much every single servant there is top tier and would probably wreck his shit.
He'd probably do really damn well in prototype, Fragments, and F/GO though.

>>162137388
>>could completely disable a mage's magic circuits by touching them
No, for the same reason ass below.
>>162137321
> the upper crust of earth that is inhabitable is literally a reality marble that toumas ass would fall right through cause lolIB
IB kills things that are unnaturally changing the world. He doesn't kill the world itself. The Index world has leylines and such and he won't destroy all the mana just by touching it. This has been known since early OT. Of course he wouldn't destroy the world even if the world is similar to a reality marble.

>>162137545
Gaia has a reality marble that makes shit inhabitable for people and keeps things from going to shit thats constantly active. if its not active you see an earth thats a giant ball of fiery death.
Touma assuming his shit works on reality marbles and shit just by being there would shit a hole right through the planet and his ass would get roasted.

>>162137321
>>162137388
>>162137877
>“I’m not so sure your Imagine Breaker can negate leylines, Kami-yan.”
>“Eh?” Kamijou looked shocked. “But leylines are…um…magical…right? So…”
>“Yes, but…” Tsuchimikado interrupted him. “I just can’t figure out what your right hand really is. You say it can negate any magic or esper power. But take an occult power like a human’s life force for instance. You can’t kill someone just by giving them a handshake, right?”
>“Well, no…”
>“I get the feeling there are some odd exceptions. And leylines are most likely one of those exceptions. I highly doubt you can obliterate the entire Earth just by touching the ground.”

>>162137877
its also questionable as to whether its reality marble is specifically considered unnatural or not even if its Gaia's.
Planets are pretty fucking hostile in type moon.

>fate and raildex powerlevel thread

Ohh boy

>>162137880
>>162137938
See >>162137931. Gaia's reality marble must be a natural part of the world. The best way to understand IB in a Fate-sense is a souped up concentrated version of the counter force.

>>162137931
Latest novel basically reveals that the thing that's inside touma's arm was basically an anti summoning tool that initially removes any kind of summons, somehow in extend repels supernatural powers.

Since servants are summons then touma can literally erase them just by touching.

>>162137321

Saber Altura. Thats her real physical body

>>162137988
I agree with Touma erasing a servant. I disagree with him erasing a magician's magic circuit or the world's reality marble itself.

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>>162137538
>it's not like he's gonna be able to block every single weapon coming out of the gate of babylon.
GoB is small-time compared to what he's gotten through. Gil would probably end up being one of the few servants he could beat since the others would actually bother trying.

>>162138021
Yes, erasing a reality marble would be impossible but he can erase the servant supplying the marble.

>>162138022
nah give touma more credit then that. i'd put him at the very least able to deal with the average servant with some of the absolutely insane shit hes done in NT.
My main gripe was with the whole gaia's reality marble mess as to how he would interact with that. he'd honestly do fairly well until he actually hit a top tier servant that knows what the shit is going on in regards of how to fight.

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>>162138049
>Yes, erasing a reality marble would be impossible
I find some doubt in that, at least for one done by a servant. He did essentially break a distortion in space-time in NT4 without assistance like when Othinus used IB.

>>162138049
No, I think he can erase an unnatural reality marble. He just cannot erase Gaia's world field which is like a "reality marble."

Strongest Index that GARm Shirou could beat.

>>162138100
Shirou would specifically do poorly against touma because of how toumas powers work and the fact touma doesn't suck at his ability anymore. Shirou could probably wreck your average saint though.

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>>162137388
I wonder how the actual Kamachi summoner would do. Can Servants beat Materials?

>>162138139
Shirou can't wreck accel

>>162138146
lets face it kyousuke would "Somehow accidentally" get the white queen as a servant in that mess and then proceed to flee for his life so he doesn't have to put up with this bullshit.
thats exactly how that would go down.

>>162138139
Shirou isn't fast enough to wreck any saints. Even with Archer's arm

>>162138172
Accel can also wreck average saints, mind you he went toe to toe with a full on angel in WWIII and didn't lose out in that fight.

>>162138139
Shirou would get dunked by acqua

>>162138237
>Getting dunked on by double saint
anon plz, most things get wrecked by double saint.

>>162137321
Kiritsugu would just shoot him with normal bullets

>>162138260
Shirou would get wrecked by Kanzaki

>>162137931
From NT2 we do know that IB does damage Leylines but they come back right afterword and because of this destroy and return cycle is what aloud the Giant Fortress to follow him around.

>>162138391
It doesn't damage the leyline itself. It destroys some of the power flowing though the leyline.

>>162138277
Yes he would but then again Touma have survive Gun Shot in this series like in NT5 but that didn't stop him from doing anything in NT6 he was shot and still fighting Birdway so Kiritsugu better hope he get a headshot and even them some how he could miss because it bet said in the LN series that IB is plot armor and is one of reason he survive all the crap he go through so that he can continue to go through it all over again and never have the Sweet Release of Death and as the Series goes on Touma is getting less and less break between problems but then again that may have to do which IT becoming stronger.

>>162138281
Kanzaki is fucking ridiculous and can fight with servants

Also I'm still waiting for Saber vs Carissa to be a thing

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>>162137412
Raildexfags BTFO
season 3 NEVER EVER

>>162138611
To be fair he only got shot once and got medical attention soon after, Kiritsugu wouldn't stop shooting probably unless he was relying on the origin bullet which would be a major mistake. That said post NT10 Touma is just as crazy with his violence so he would give Kerry a run for his money there.

>>162138755
Actually, how would using Origin Rounds be bad other than being slightly wasteful? He could null the effect but not the bullet itself.

>>162138611
>>162138755
>>162138803
I think kerry would try shooting his arm which would be a horrible mistake

>>162138803
It would probably run the risk of temporarily fucking up the seal on IT

>>162138826
What? No. He would try shooting his brainstem from a long distance which would be a good idea

>>162138755
Which how must more insane bullshit Touma has to go through after NT10 and how more insane his enemy have became after NT10 having to take more violence mean is no surprise that and he has not has a true good night sleep from Dec. 2 and even then we don't know if some bullshit happen in one of the sidestory that may of had Touma in the problem.

You guy suck

Is this the "can this character wina grail war" thread cause i wanna ask corna few characters.

>>162139376
Precognition only works when he sees his opponents movements. Won't work against a sniper

>>162139634
In the context of the HGW it would be less of a issue of sneaking and more that Touma probably would never stop moving around.

>>162137536
Fragarach can kill accelerator.

>>162138633
Soon you will cry, denialfags

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>literally wanting a bane of all magic to participate in such war
nigga you would have to be at least Magic God to beat him
he will literally find a way to end the war

>>162140469
Yet by punching the Greater Grail

>>162140499
He'd have to learn of its existence and find it to punch it. Not an easy feat for him

>>162140469
>he will literally find a way to end the war
>by winning

So the answer is Yes, Touma would win a grail war?

The real trick is what Servant would Kamijou Touma summon and whether Fiamma and Kamisato are also in the same war?

>>162140535
>The real trick is what Servant would Kamijou Touma summon

Avenger. They both have shitty luck

>>162140535
Nothing because he can't summon one

>>162140590
>punches Avenger so hard is purifies him of all the world's evils.

>>162140597
So then he can't win a Grail War. Thread over. Nothing to see here.

There's nothing stopping archer from taking him out easily.

Gilgamesh can just shoot a fuck ton of swords so he can't block with his one hand.
Emiya can snipe him from across the bridge.

>>162140731
GoB is nothing compared to Othinus's crossbow, trying to overwhelm with numbers isn't very effective anymore.

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Kamijou Touma can't even win a war against a normal highschool boy

>>162140597
>because he can't summon one
This is a trick question because the Grail can give out Servants to people who weren't even trying like how Caster was summoned in F/Z.

Literaly anyone can beat the crap out of him. Only in his dimension that no one can melee a fucking kid.

Yes, he literally is the top normal lad there is. His literal presence distorts the surrounding. He will ruin the grail war

>>162137321
>could probably vaporize a Servant with a single touch, seeing how they're literally made of mana
Remember that arc with the magic ice ships? With that logic, Touma should have just been able to destroy them with a single touch

How would Touma or Accelerator do against Gae Bolg?

>>162142714
Nothing, they just die

>>162142714
>>162142798
Accelerator can survive with no hearth

>>162137321
>gets summoned
>body made out of mana
>right arm cancels out the summon
>he disappears

>>162142884
You dodge Gae Bolg with your luck stat, not your defense.

Gae Bolg warps causality. It's not that you see a spear coming and block it/get hit, you are already pierced when it's fired. Accelerator's deflection won't work. He'll have to come up with something else.

>>162142997
He would probably just beat the shit out of Cu before he got a chance to use it.
Cu doesn't strike me as the sort of guy to use his ultimate super death strike on what appears to be a sickly albino.

>>162142997
By Nasu rules, Luck is the ability to fight against your fate and Touma is the only man not tied down by destiny due to IB as per High Priest so he kind of funnily does in fact have an excellent Luck stat

That doesn't change the fact that even if it misses his heart, being stabbed by a spear fucking hurts, though he could at least destroy it, though he'd quite likely bleed out from that

>>162143176
>Cu doesn't strike me as the sort of guy to use his ultimate super death strike on what appears to be a sickly albino.
He will when Accelerator imitates GoB by standing there and flinging stuff via moving the air around him like a tornado because that's him going easy.

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>>162137665
>plot armor
That's just his precog doing its job

Other than Accelerator, Misaki and Kakine could win the grail war by themselves. Sogita could probably bullshit his way out of it.

>>162142997
Unless it pierces Accelerator's brain, he could probably just keep himself alive with VECTORS long enough to counterattack. Of course, he'll die as soon as his battery runs out, but that's enough time to wreck some shit.

>>162142997
The thing is, espers are also reality warpers. Accelerator's reflect could work up to the 11th dimension.

>>162143384
I thought Gae Bolg only shot for the heart.
>he could probably just keep himself alive with VECTORS long enough to counterattack
I guess.

>>162143406
Did you even read my post?

>>162137321
You know, the servants and the magi can attack the ground he's standing on. Even if they're not able to do direct damage, he can still be killed.

>>162137321
Bazett would wreck his shit.

>>162143460
Anybody can do that, it's nothing special and he has dealt with such situations before and survived.

>>162143450
His vectors work beyond space and time. How that will not cancel Gae Bolg is lost to me.

>ctrl+f Souichirou
>no result
Tomafags never heard of Souichirou

>>162137321
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Souichirou_Kuzuki

>>162142986
/thread

>>162143248
Last time I watch raildex, he can't calculate plasma properly just because Misaka clones alter the wind.

>>162143514
>work beyond space and time
>cannot calculate Angels unknown vector

>>162143371
You mean GUTS his way out if it

>>162143550
>he thinks angels use the same laws

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>>162143514
>cannot calculate Angels unknown vector
maybe he's an accelfag, guess he will even say he can deflect any magic thrown at him. look >>162143514

Touma wins as soon as a girl asks him for help. Dragons probably come out too

>>162143596
Not him, but Accel can affect magic after coming into contact with Aiwass. He kinda stopped Heaven in WW3.
Hell, fucker can actually cast spells without bleeding out from his ass, unlike Tsuchi.

>>162143596
But he did deflect magic during ww3 and also managed to calculate the vectors of angels shortly after

>>162142798
>>162142714
>>162142997
>>162143450
>implying he wont just pump blood using VECTORS to keep himself alive

would you summon touma as your servant?

>>162143733
Except he can't, what he did in Hawaii was so basic it couldn't even be called a spell, and he needed utmost focus to not start spilling blood everywhere

>>162143916
>wanting to summon a berserker

>>162143916
He's pretty damn good at keeping people near him alive, so I'd stick to him like glue and hope for the best.

>>162143936
It was AC, it was a tracking spell, and the only previous spell he cast was a reverse engineered chant modified for his own use. He quite literally came up with a spell knowing fuck all about magic. It's true, he needs to concentrate to not spill his guts and in Hawaii he did bleed after that involuntary casting, but it's still miles ahead of "all magician-esper hybrid aside from Tsuchi die a horrible death".
You're also still disregarding how he blocked a retardedly powerful spell from the highest ranking GRS member or how he fought an angel without getting his shit kicked in in three seconds.

>>162137321
>Lancelot picks up a stick
>kills Touma with it because stick isn't magic
The only reason why more mages don't die right away because they're usually allied with the mc which gives plotshield or are hiding instead.

>>162144308
Which volume was it, because the only time I remember Accel doing magic and not turning into a bloody mess was Hawaii, also Accel did get his shit kicked in like three seconds, though considering it was an Angel the fact and that it took that long is still commendable, and the blocking happened when he has those White Wings on, but considering he doesn't just use those every time there's a problem, there's almost certainly a limitation that keeps him from using it and solving all his problems in no time all the time

>>162144411
NT2, in the latter half when they're trying to figure out how to stop Radiosonde Castle from flattening AC. It's actually the only time he voluntarily uses magic aside from the healing chant in WW3. In Hawaii he was somehow baited by mooks into taking certain actions and cast a spell, it wasn't something he was actively trying to do.

>One servant decides that Touma's arm is too dangerous
>cuts his arm off
>Hilarity ensues

Can I win the HGW?

>>162144489
Oh, I was mixing up Accelerator reading the leylines happening in NT3, rather than NT2, still that wasn't really a tracking spell though, he was simply feeling out and calculating were the weirdness was coming from

>>162144354
>implying any KoO'd weapon would work against touma's right hand
Jetfag is too naive I see

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>>162137880
>>162137964
>being this much of an inbred mongoloid who takes everything literally and sees no use in higher thought
Listen up, you absolute fucking morons, I'll only say this once: GAIA IS FUCKING PLANET EARTH. A. FUCKING. PLANET. In the Nasuverse, planets are somewhat sentient and other shit. Amongst the other shit, is the ability to manipulate reality to an extent, so long as it's within their planet.

>inb4 how does this work
Same way True Magic does, you secondary fag.

>inb4 muh Ea shows the real world
No, it fucking doesn't you knuckle dragging chink cartoon poster. Ea fucks with reality and other shit, yes, but that's unrelated to its Truth. The Truth which Ea shows is the primordial state of the planet - something engraved into all being's most basic instincts. It does this through creating a hellscape of fire and pain via Enuma Elish. It doesn't "peel back the World", Enuma Elish just destroys the World and remakes it into its primordial state.

Seriously, do you fucking morons ever think of how dumb you are? How would a "supreme Reality Marble" (or whatever you call it) would work? Wouldn't everyone try to keep Gaia alive? Wouldn't the Land of Steel be a fucking living hell where nothing could survive? NO, OF COURSE NOT, BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL FUCKING MORONS.

God damn, do I hate Fate fans.

>>162137321
>Does the Fateverse have a single counter to this guy?
with someone that can fight without magic, didn't Tsuchimikado beat him in a 1v1 fight?

>>162145106
Yes, 30+ volumes ago.

>>162137321
>be Kiritsugu
>see some guy BTFO all other Masters when they try to use magecraft to kill him
>using magecraft
>Hero_of_Justice_Kek.webm
>find the fucker
>shoot him
>shoot him again
>and again
>once more to be safe
>aaaaand last one
>win Holy Grail War
>wait wtf is this black shit

>>162145175
*Billions of years ago.

>>162141794
That murderer was using grail war summoning circles but didn't know what he was doing.

>>162145106
Touma gets his ass kicked by anyone with superhuman physical stats. At least until the arm comes off.

>>162137321

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>>162137321
Hard countered and not even Kiritsugu.

If Invisible Thing gets to come out Touma could fuck with Beasts, Types and whatever else you want to pull out.

>>162145178
>implying touma's dragon lolis wont appear and save his ass out of kiritsugu's bullshit

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>>162145310
COOLfag would trigger touma's moralfagness and he'll end up getting punched

>>162137931
That may be, but ultimately, what IB does is tearing through phase distortions.
Leylines are part of the pure world.
The pure world in the Nasuverse is just a barren wasteland and there is no way to change that.

Alright so say that Touma shows up just randomly without being a master or a servant to the 4th or 5th war and is told there is an evil magic ritual going on in the area that could threaten the entire planet
Bonus round: Accelerator and Hamazura are there too.

>>162145178
nah Touma will probably meet Kerry and punch him for not living his life correctly

>>162137321
What happens when Touma scratches his own head with his right hand?

>>162145632
He gets rid of an itch.

>>162137321
The thing is, Touma still has the reaction speeds and reflexes of a human. A top tier human no doubt, but still a human. The Servants, even the weakest ones, are far above any human. Let's just say Touma is an Olympic level athlete at this point, a Servant would be a Greek god compared to him. For instance, EMIYA could snipe him before he can even react. Hassan could blitz him and break his neck. Gilgamesh can pull out Ea and bullshit his way to victory. Touma's a very good anti-magic counter, but he's out of his league against Servants. It's like going up against Othinus all over again. So unless he can make a Servant fall in love with him, it's game over.

>>162142997
Accel can take the hit and ignore it. It's not a question of defense but health regeneration.
Accel survives being cut in half by Aiwass without any consequence, the biggest problem for him was not understanding what happened, rather than being turned into a smear on the floor.

>>162142714
Touma does fine.
He gets stabbed in the most painful way that still allows him to continue fighting and doesn't harm him permanently.
Touma has the equivalent of EX-rank Luck, with the limitation that things always end with the worst possible outcome for him.

>>162145663
>Can block railguns
>Reaction speed of a human
? ? ? ? ?
>A servant is like Othinus
>A servant could defeat the IT
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>Ea not being nullified by Imagine Breaker
>Touma not nullifying Archer's sniping

Even if you want to argue the railgun blocking shit that still gives him powerful precog.

>>162145663
If a girl wants to win a HGW he'll win it for her.

And imagine breaker isn't the only thing he has

>>162145663
A servant would be like a saint, which he has trouble defeating usually but the Invisible Thing would absolutely butcher them.

>>162145780
A servant is a summon. Latest novel revealed the thing in touma's right hand was literally made to erase summons.

>>162145780
This is a more apt comparison. Yeah, it's like going against a Saint. You saw how Silvia (the maid Saint) was able to absolutely pulverize him during the Othinus arc. Yeah, going against a Servant would do the same thing to him. Maybe Invisible Thing could rekt some Servants but I really doubt it can rekt someone like Lancer for example. Now everyone gives Lancer shit for being shit but his NP is the perfect Touma counter. Unless the Invisible Thing can heal Touma's shattered heart and bring him back to life there's no doing anything. Once Gae Bolg pierces Touma's heart he's a goner.

>>162145846
Tell that to Innocentius. He could fuck command seals up though.

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>>162145846
I'd be more than a bit disturbed if I learned that my arm used to look like this.

>>162145846
Servants are different from regular summons though. He couldn't dispel Innocentius. It's the same principle. Servants are maintained by their Masters and the Grail itself. Even if he erases a Servant, it will pop back into reality in like a second and keep fighting. The only way would be for him to erase the Grail and the Master's magic. That's the only way. Otherwise, Servants (around the same level as Saints) will probably fuck him up.

>>162145780
>The Invisible Thing would absolutely butcher them.

I thought it only came out when his right arm gets cut off. If a Servant just cuts his head off or stabs his heart, it wouldn't come out would it? Just avoid the right arm entirely and go for the rest of the body. Should be easy for a Servant to do.

>>162145910
The difference is, Innocentius' power source is infinite unless the runes were removed.

Meanwhile servants just draw mana from their masters. They wouldn't last long and will poof off after a few seconds since it'll literally drain their master's mana.

>>162145925
>I thought it only came out when his right arm gets cut off
Nah. In the railgun manga it came out without the arm getting cutoff when he tried to stop nuitsaka

>>162145663
It was stated the Skill-outs who wanted to have a chance against espers needed to be on olympic levels. Saten managed to keep up with a jet boat. Touma's reaction are just not peak human. He can keep up with Misaka's light speed attacks and dodged spells that didn't leave any room to dodge because of precog.

>>162145081
Finally someone reasonable.

>>162145893
Lancer gets absolutely fucked by Invisible Thing. So does anything short of a Magic God or Aiwass.
>>162145925
A servant might see his arm as an issue and just decide to cut it off to neutralize him. They've got no way of knowing what lies beyond the arm.

>>162145893
>Unless the Invisible Thing can heal Touma's shattered heart and bring him back to life there's no doing anything
>>162145893
>Unless the Invisible Thing can heal Touma's shattered heart and bring him back to life there's no doing anything
Suffering-tan is always looking out for her loved one. Touma literally can't die if it isn't the absolutely worst thing that could happen to him.

>>162145943
You're right. But then it comes down to a matter of whether or not Touma can keep erasing them until the master's mana runs out. I doubt one poof is enough. Any self-respecting Master should have more mana than that. It'll take at least a few dispels before a Servant is gone for good. But in that time, a Servant also has the chance to fight back. Touma might not survive that window before he can finally erase a Servant.

>>162145966
Didn't he negate the Othinus' crossbow bolt that's been accelerated by infinity? Was that just me taking metaphors into literals?

>>162146009
Tbh, he'd probably subdued the servant already if he were to touch it

Stop. Just don't. Raildexverse vs Nasuverse is incompatible for debating powerlevels within their verses due to how different they are.

>>162145960
The arm was cut off. IT does seem to attack anything it thinks will overwhelm IB's ability to keep him alive post NT9 though.

>>162146011
I don't even know what accelerated by infinity means. I wasn't the best at physics, but doesn't acceleration mean the time it gets to top speed? Wouldn't that just mean that the bolts was instantly in top speed it could go?

>>162145985
Then it's just a matter of what the Servant decides to do that determines the outcome. If a Servant cuts his hand off right away, the IT fucks the Servant up. If the Servant simply uses a one-hit kill NP like Gae Bolg or Ea, then Touma dies. Or if Touma can actually touch the Servant or not. If the Servant is a melee fighter then he has a chance. If it's someone like Gil or Caster who fights from a distance, then it's a lot harder with all the sword/beam spam going on.

>>162146069
Don't tell me what to do.

>>162146069
Who would win in a fight?
Atari Porkeyslope
or
full power Fiamma

>>162146104
Basically. Touma won't call for the Invisible Thing himself because it scares the shit out of him and it won't come out by itself unless something literally godly is trying to kill him. How the fight goes is based on how seriously the servant takes the fight from the beginning.

>>162146104
Servant projectile spam won't work on Touma. Unless the Servants pick up rocks and debris and throw it at him he will be able to imagine breaker it.
Also
>Caster
>Beating Mr.antimage
Caster gets punched and told she isn't living her life correctly

>>162146200
If its tamacaster she can just beat him up.

>>162146069
Nigger we haven't even included heavy objects yet

>>162146069
>accelerator vs flash
It's like you haven't been to powerlevel threads

>>162146245
>city wide heavy object

>>162146077
Infinite acceleration would mean instantaneous top speed and I no idea what her crossbow bolt's top speed would be. It did imply it's strong enough to destroy planets.

>>162146245
Objects are too OP for this

Alright lets make this balanced. Touma, any one of his science side allies and any one one of his magic side allies try and stop the 5th war. Does he succeed?
Could Kamisato stop the HGW?

>>162146301
Infinite acceleration means infinite force. So it should be literally universe shattering. Of course magic says fuck you to physics in its simplest of forms.

>>162146301
Yeah, I figured. The speed should have been fast enough to produce a force capable of blowing up Earth then. I'm not really a fan of calcs since they don't coincide with the feats, but calcs for this seems fine.

>>162146387
If a girl asks him to stop it then he will and will destroy everyone's illusions

>>162137372
why isn't there a servant that uses guns?

>>162146408
Well, they are proportional to each other. I don't remember if it's "accelerated by infinity" or "infinite acceleration" though.

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>>162146432
There is one. His name is EMIYA

>>162146432
Billy the Kid uses guns.

>>162146474
I just noticed. They are the same.

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>>162146481

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>>162145615
>Touma punching trained and armed mercenary
HA!

>>162146474
>What exactly could this be compared to?

>Perhaps a super-long railgun that targeted someone on the planet’s surface after eternal acceleration using straight guiderails stretching from one end of the universe to the other.

>Perhaps a singularity weapon that created destruction unexplainable with Newtonian physics by directly messing with the smallest particles dealing with mass and motion such as the bosons and the Higgs particle.

Looks like its already been accelerated infinitely instead of being in the process of increasing its acceleration until it hits infinity. Calling shit like this just a planet buster is seriously underselling it though, Kamachi.

>>162146245
Can Servants defeat Objects?

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>>162146481
Here is another gun wielding Servant
also called EMIYA

>>162146656
Fighting them head-on? It'll be suicide. If they can do shit like what Quenser and Hevia are doing then they can.

>>162146656
It depends on what Servant you summon.

>>162146841
Gil vs Deep Optical

>Touma doesn't delete Gaia's RM
>but he can somehow delete other RMs
Sure

>>162146861
>Gil vs anything that isn't a hard counter
Gil wins

What class would Arc be summoned as, Berserker?

>>162146903
You mean like UBW?
Things that attack so quickly, he can't address them?
Like homing lasers?

>>162146975
>muh precognition
There's only so many things one can defend against at the same time

Cool thread OP, but can anyone beat Fiamma?

>>162147058
Objects shrug off basically anything short of another Object Cannon. GoB doesn't matter at all. You basically aren't in the running if you can't spam high rank Anti-Fortress NPs.

>>162147063
Help me out here, which Fiamma are you talking about?

>>162147126
>You basically aren't in the running if you can't spam high rank Anti-Fortress NPs.
Gilgamesh has everything Humanity has and will create in his treasury

This isn't a contest

>>162146861
GoB should go through its defences like butter.
If that doesn't work Enuma Elish definitely will.
Gil doesn't even need to bother with it's attacks if he remembers to keep his fucking armor on.

>>162147126

'm not talking about Holy Right Fiamma of the Right. Hell, I'm not even talking about God's Right Seat Fiamma of the Right. I'm talking about La Persona Superiore a Dio Fiamma of the Right with the Likeness of Michael and Index Librorum Prohibitorum grimoires (with the vast amount of high level spells and being capable of both the strike that ends everything it touches and the strike that reaches everything when swung), equipped with his forty kilometer long flaming magical sword, an anti-magic god class Fairy Spell, control of the Archangel Gabriel and Star of Bethlehem, while Heavens Gates are opened to allow usage of Eurasia destructing Telesma Flow, who formatted his power in the Aeon of Horus with Kamijou Touma's Imagine Breaker implanted in him so he has surpassed his Third Arm’s limit and can perform any bible miracle while being a final authority of Christian Faith and the one who can Save The World.

>>162147159
So, how come he lost to Shirou then? What happened there?
Oh right, he couldn't pull out the thing he needed to deal with the situation, because he was busy dodging.
This is the same scenario, except he can't even dodge, because the Deep Optical attacks move at the speed of light.

>>162147166
Didn't Gil have trouble with Excalibur even while his armor was on? An Object's main cannon is that strong at the bare minimum.

>>162147166
>GoB should go through its defences like butter.
A first gen HO can withstand a nuke. Anything less than that cannot penetrate it you shit. Normal Gil wouldn't care for trying to get its weak points because he's a jobber.

>>162147328
>being this guy
lmao UBW hard counter's GoB, He wasn't wearing his armour and the plot demanded he don't use Ea until it was already too late.

Your object is not going to hard counter Gil, deal with it.

>>162147393
>UBW hard counter's GoB
Yes, of course.
Why is it the hard counter?
Because it attacks without giving Gil space to do things, while defending against anything else.
No Object concerns itself with GoB spam and they all have the means to just keep shooting at Gil to make sure he can't pull anything to address the situation.

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>>162146537
>Hollywood Debut
Every time

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Well at some point haimura thought this was another index spinoff, cause proto touma was just black haired shirou, probably because they are prectically the same character with different abilities

>>162147159
Unless he pulls Ea he wont win against Deep Optical

>>162147391
>A nuke
Well it's a good thing GoB contains everything humanity has or will have inside it. He could fire every nuke every made at the fucking thing if he wanted.
He can easily destroy a machine like a Heavy Object.
>>162147442
>why is it the hard counter?
Because the swords and shit are already there. It wouldn't have mattered at all if Gil was armored. Nothing short of a full power excaliblast is going to hurt him and no, your shitty cannons aren't comparable.

>>162147552
>He could fire every nuke every made at the fucking thing if he wanted.
>He can easily destroy a machine like a Heavy Object.


>heavy objects
>surviving against nukes
I bet he can't even scratch baby magnum

>>162147547
>same character

Lancelot would just KoO an object and beat gil with it

>>162147578
The only reason that he lost to Shirou is because he took Shirou's challenge of swordspam.
Gil isn't exactly going to be impressed by your big pew pew laser robot.
Gil could just fire prototype Caladbolg at the HO and laugh as it twists space around it to penetrate anything, rendering it's defences meaningless and punching a big ol' hole straight through it.

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>can block all magical attacks from mages
>could completely disable a mage's magic circuits by touching them
>could probably vaporize a Servant with a single touch, seeing how they're literally made of mana
>same with Noble Phantasms; even basic sword attacks mean nothing after he blocks it
>can probably even shatter a Reality Marble just by touching the ground

How good is he against bullet?

>>162147698
But who ever attacks first wins right? An object can literally fire at the speed of light

>>162147730
They already tried but he's still alive

>>162147761
It depends. Gils armor is probably enough to endure it's attacks. The strongest NPs in GoB will easily destroy the HO as well

>>162147870
A laserbeam fired by a magical power reactor would vaporize every bit of mana a servant has so gil is basically vaporized

>>162147442
>No Object concerns itself with GoB spam
Do you understand the capabilities of GoB or are you this stupid?

Gil has more than enough weapons of high enough tier to tear your object to pieces in less than a second. He could just Ea it to fuck and beyond. Or will you tell me that Objects have conceptual weapons such as Avalon too?

BUT WHAT IF LANCELOT KOO DEEP OPTICAL?

WHAT NOW KAMACHIFAGS?

>>162144354
This or he lose to waifu buffed history teacher if 5th war

>>162137538
This, and Kuzuki would destroy him as well

What happens when Touma touches the Holy Grail?

Can Shiki kill Objects?

>>162147962
Do you understand what GoB is?
Swordspam is just throwing swords at stuff, it doesn't have to do anything with the special abilities of the weapons. Something like Excalibur fired by GoB is just a sword being fired. That's the first ability of GoB, it won't scratch any Object.

The second ability is switching weapons, but that one takes time as shown by the UBW route. And it was defeated by pressuring Gil until he died.
An Object can do just that.

how does imagine breaker work anyway?
if a tall buff dude could knock out people with a low effort punch, could touma stop a full force punch if the dude is now using magic?

>>162148362
He stopped a golem dead on its tracks while it was about to land a punch. He should be able to negate the reinforcement of a full force punch, but not the full force punch itself.

>>162148422
Golem was summoned, human wont be negated by imagine breaker.

>>162147962
>Gil can defeat objects
>lost to a high school boy throwing swords at him
sure

>>162148478
No, it wouldn't but it will cancel the reinforcement spell on contact. The punch still connects though.

>>162148505
>Objects can defeat Gil
>lost to two highschool boys fucking around
sure

>>162148186
Shiki + Quenser team can fight Objects. At least if it's Tohno.

>>162148524
Yeah but one of them is genius engineer and other is trained soldier. Shiro barely managed to summon a weapon few days before defeating Gil.

>>162147730
pretty good
his only weak to americans

Imagine being dumb enough to not realize Gil only lost because he held back (due to his pride) and that UBW is just a hard-counter by default

>>162148574
>Americans
Truly, a weakness we can respect.

>>162148571
Shirou gained enough mana from Rin to summon UBW and enough experience and information from his fight against Archer

Those balls on rails got nothing on most servants

Can IT solo the Fatesverse?

>>162148585
Imagine being dumb enough to think throwing swords at object would do anything.

>>162148585
Gilgamesh always loses due to holding back.
The closest he came to going all out was Fate.
He was a prideful fuck in UBW and he underestimated the shadow and became wormfood in HF

>>162148585
Any Object does the same as UBW out of the box, except it has a lot more firepower than UBW.

>>162148616
Imagine being dumb enough to think that the highest ranked noble phantasms are merely normal swords. Even without their abilities they will go through basically any material like a hot knife through butter

Gil solos every HO in the series at the same time.

>>162148684
And yet they got deflected by a fake copies made by Shirou

>>162148616
>Noble Phantasms are just normal swords
ok

>>162148725
They cancel each other out.

>>162148708
imagine being this deluded

>>162148752
>noble phantasm is sronger than orbital cannon

>>162148797
imagine being this deluded

>>162148725
Maybe it's time you stop getting your info from a wiki and actually read the series, anon

>>162148522
>The punch still connects though.
Incorrect. If an attack is magically charged in any way, it gets negated by IB. See Acqua.

>>162148824
Imagine being this deluded.

>>162146200
In that case someone like Lancelot would counter him just fine. Lancelot's NP lets him turn any object he picks up into his NP. He picked up a lamppost and turned it into a makeshift NP to beat the shit out of Saber. So let's say he swings that lamppost at Touma. Even if IB cancels out the NP effect, it's still at fucking lamppost being swung at superhuman speeds at Touma. Even with IB cancelling the magic the force will still turn him into paste. And if Lancelot hits him in a way such that his arm isn't ripped off, the IT doesn't come out. Touma simply dies. And like >>162146187 said I don't see Touma willingly calling out the IT since he doesn't seem to like it very much, might not even be able to control it.

>>162148820
>noble phantasm not being stronger than orbital cannons
Hell Gae Bolg is B+ tier and is basically a thrown nuke javelin

>>162148839
I'm going to break those illusions of yours.

>>162148186
Yes, anon. Even Objects have lines of destruction that if cut, will destroy the object itself. The real question is, can Shiki kill an Aristoteles? You know, the ones from Angel Notes. They seem to be completely alien to the point the laws of Gaia don't apply to them.

Touma can negate a fucking crossbow accelerated to infinity not taking it head on, but instead catching it then getting away to dodge

>>162148865
Yeah i saw them nukes Gil was throwing at shirou

>>162148893
Who do you think you are faker.

Literally any strong combatant that doesn't rely entirely on magic or his NP would rip him a new one, lol

>>162148585
That's a point though. Non CCC Gil is stupid enough to underestimate his opponents because he believes he is ultimate. He doesn't get serious against anyone unworthy of his strength which increases his jobberness against Archer or Shirou.

>>162148915
>Misunderstanding the whole concept of Gil this much.

Woah boy, better do some research into what you are arguing about. Also pays not to over analyse Gils auto attack.

>>162148915
Again, he considers it a loss if he actually goes all out against a "lowlife"

>>162148918
I'm just a normal high school boy, the kind you could find anywhere.

>>162148945
nah post nt9 touma can face combatants now that are peak physical strenght but to face them he needs to either fuck them up with a train, ram them with bikes, tie them to a helicopters rotor or ram buses, throw extinguishers like a bitch and then duke their faces.

>>162148947
Yeah, but he actually shows signs of going serious when hes about to lose (like in Fate route, except it was too late by then) if he sees the kind of ability Touma has he'll not underestimate him as much, considering he doesn't get himself killed before that

>>162148945
>lol
You're comparing OT to NT Touma. It will take more than a strong fighter not on the same level as Acqua.

>>162148987
Going against soldier in a machine would be loss too then

>Touma winning the Grail War
>ever
Fucker would make the grail disappear by touching it when he makes his wish.

Nobody wins.

>>162149068
Do you think he can actually beat Kuzuki or Hercules/Lancelot tho?

>>162149122
He wouldn't get his shit beaten by Kuzuki. The servants are another matter even if he can react to them.

>>162149055
>Yeah, but he actually shows signs of going serious when hes about to lose (like in Fate route, except it was too late by then)
Exactly, his pride gets in the way because the times he doesn't get serious he loses because he realises too late.
>if he sees the kind of ability Touma has he'll not underestimate him as much
This is debatable. There's a fifty fifty chance he'll just consider Touma as trash on the side of the road.

>>162137321
Mages can buy normal guns, right?

>>162149201
Why would they?

>>162149122
Nope. He can't even scratch them let alone defeat them. Mad Enhancement is bullshit on Herakles.

>>162149191
What would Gil's response be if Touma nullified Enuma Elish?

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GUYS
shiki can kill touma and accelerator

>>162149201
You'd still need to be more physically capable than Rin or Luvia while enhanced to stand a chance of on a one vs one him.

>>162149174
>He wouldn't get his shit beaten by Kuzuki
pffffhahahaha

Kuzuki trained for his whole life. He trained a single attack that is certain to kill anyone

>>162149260
>sees IT
>kills himself

>>162149252
>A mere mongrel cancelling Ea?! Impossible.
Shock and Disbelief.

>>162149270
Touma's precog is bullshit levels now
he can

>>162148865
Sure, and nukes don't even scratch objects.

>>162146686
Where is this from? Why would Kiritsugu have dark skin and white hair? He doesn't use projection.

>>162149270
>single attack
>on someone reacting at lightspeed attacks

>>162149311
Saber was able to survive twice a bullshit almost True Magic NP

Yet Kuzuki got her. Touma is getting beat

>>162149329
That only works against supernatural attack due to his precognition

>>162149327
>B+
>Gil has A, A+, A++ and probably even some EX rank NPs in GoB
Muh nukes
Nukes probably couldn't kill Servants either.

>>162149328
F/GO

>>162149329
You know what's faster than light?

Things that happen instantly. No travel time, Touma would lose even to the weakest servant, Sasaki Kojirou

>>162149345
nah we are talking about faster than lightning shit or a bolt accelerated to infinity level and still detect it kind of precog

he can probably dodge a few times before getting his shit kick in

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>>162149276
That's not how it works. If IT death is to hard to comprehend he won't see any lines on it. Plus it's not like he need to use his eyes against Touma he'll just beat his ass up

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>>162149353
>Nukes probably couldn't kill Servants either.

>>162149328
Grand Order, it's from a universe where he never joins the 4th HGW and becomes a Counter Guardian instead. I think that you get fucked hair and skin if you just overuse magic, you don't have to use projection magic

Of all masters, Gudao/Gudako will probably be the one that Touma might actually have trouble with.
>Not really a magus
>Most mana for servants sponsored by Chaldea(*cough, Merlin, cough), so poofing their mana isn't really gonna work
>Main servant is a demiservant, even if she can't use her powers she can still beat the shit out of him physically
>Probably wouldn't even realise that Guda and Mashu are his enemies until they attack him

>>162149394
That's true.

>>162149328
Time Accel is one hell of a drug
Same with Shirou's projection, it's magic beyond their level, that puts enough stress on their body to burn it and change hair color

>>162137321
he probably fought in some kind of grail war once cuz infinite hell bullshit

What is IT? I thought Touma only had Imagine Breaker and those dragons? How strong is IT? I haven't read any of the novels, only the railgun manga and both anime

>>162149516
IT can nullify entire existences but loses out to loli Odin.

>>162149541
What do you mean by nullify existences? Does it just delete people from the universe?

>>162149516
Invisible thing.

>>162149576
ctrl + z

>>162149413
No, it's specifically projection. The rebound effect from casting it alters physical traits like your hair and skin color. Besides, wouldn't we see other lifelong magi with white hair and dark skin if that was the case?

>>162149576
No that's World Rejector, his opposite/anti-thesis Kamisato has that ability.
Invisible Thing lies beyond Imagine Breaker and has overpowered World Rejector so make of that what you will. Invisible Thing hasn't been explained properly yet all we know is that it's strong enough to make Fiamma at his strongest shit himself

>>162149646
Counter Guardians.
Deal with it.

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Kakeru probably can defeat all servants without trying.

World Rejector would make the servants fucking salivate.

>>162149373
Tsubame Gaeshi? Touma already reacted to attacks happening at the same time.

>>162149350
I was on the assumption that he's powered up with magic. Even then, peak human is nothing new.

>>162149646
It's not projection that causes it per se, but using magic that puts a lot of stress on your body. Time Accel does that

>touches command seals of masters
>or the connections of the masters to their servants while buying eggs
he won't even notice

>>162149350
>>162149746
No. NT Touma has his precog working on pretty much everything. L.

>>162137321
dies to snake sensei

>le railddit oWo stop biting my head
vs
>unlimited asspulls

geee i wonder

>>162149696
Man, WR is just too much bullshit. He'll kill you but only on the nicest way possible delusion you would ever want.

>>162137536
gae bolg GG
gae dear GG
fragaratch GG
that sickle Gilgamesh has GG
CA hassan GG

>>162137536
I hope he can deflect conceptual weapons

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>>162149881
>baiting this hard

>>162149918
Esper powers are reality warping. Accelerator's ability goes up to the 11th dimension beyond.

>>162149776
I can believe that, but it still doesn't explain why neither Kiritsugu nor Noritaka are dark skinned even after a lifetime of using their crest. I guess maybe being a CG gives you more opportunity to abuse your body? But even Shirou was starting to go white before he signed a contract with the world.

Honestly though, it just comes down to
>>162149673.

>>162149922
>Gae Dearg and Gils sickle immune to his vector manipulation
>Same for Gae Bolg once activated and Fragaratch once activated
>CA hassans ability imposes a conceptual death rather that physical damage

What if you summoned Index Alesteir Crowley as a caster servant, could you win a HGW?
>magic's effect/power is 10x more than enemies expect it to be
>if enemies expect it to be 10x whatever it was before it will be 10x that

>>162149978
Kiritsugu never meets Iri, dedicates his life to magic bs, Time Accels all the time etc etc
Kiritsugu didn't go dark and white hair in FSN because he stopped all that stuff after the 4th war.

>>162150008
hes a cripple in a tube, i expect him to have 0 power

0x10 is 0

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>>162150047
>A cripple in a tube
are you sure about that?

>>162150087
100%, thats just some clone or something

why is he crossdressing?

>>162150042
Noritaka _did_ do that though. He had a more complete version of the crest and lived with it much longer than Kiritsugu.

>>162150047
>same guy who fucked up the realm of magic gods
>same magic gods who had to divide their power an infinite amount of times to not destroy the universe
>same aleister who's about to have sex magick with Touma

Touma's presence would literally turn the favor of the grail to war to him so yeah probably. Just being around the guy would save you.

>>162150047
>Magic power of 0
>Magic Name is literally Satan
>Most powerful Magic Practicioner in the world
???

>>162150119
ah but see, i dont care- his powers are 10X what i think they are

i think he is powerless

he is powerlessx10

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>>162150113
Does this look like a clone or Aleister crossdressing to you?

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>>162149953
Unless you pull back your punch ;3

>>162150144
That isn't Solomon

>>162150151
He doesn't have to use blasting rod.
He could use his other magic first and then activate it.
Pretty fucking difficult thinking somebody is powerless when you have already seen their power.

>>162150160
yes?

>>162150151
>the literal state of fatefags
Now, fuck off back to the forum you crawled out from.

>>162150180
He might as well be. He'd be an absurd Grand Caster.

>>162150118
And he wasn't going around trying to kill other magi, but just escaping the sealing designation
Just assume Kiritsugu went ham on the time accel stuff

>>162150183
dont underestimate my arrogance and ability to delude myself


>>162150189
look at what the guy who was describing aleisters power said

its like if someone says Gilgamesh has 10 more weapons than i can imagine, all you would need to do is imagine -11 weapons

>>162150180
Alesteir vs Grand Caster
fuck Alesteir is strong enough to be eligible for the GC vessel. He fucks with Magic Gods for fun.

>>162150173
Only Kihara knows this technique and White Wing Accel is just bullshit.

>>162150263
>White Wing Accel
what the fuck even are "imaginary vectors"

>>162137321
His attacks nullify magic, not raw power.
90% of summons could pound him into the dirt.

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>>162150243

>>162149696
This. Kamisato beating the Servants makes a lot more sense than Touma beating them. Kamisato's power itself relies on the assumption that the target is not satisfied with the current reality. That's all Servants. Because they're all fighting in the war to make a wish come true. His power will literally blow every Servant into another reality. Probably every Master too because they're also fighting for a wish. The only things Kamisato won't beat in the Nasuverse will be the Aristoteles since reality bends over backwards for them.

>>162150370
Indeed.

>>162150370
Some masters and servants would be immune
Cu just felt like fighting people

>Index S3 never
>Fate has Apo airing right now, the Prisma Shirou movie came out a few weeks ago, the HF movie is coming out in a month or so, Last Encore is airing january next year

Well, I know which series won

>>162150243
Oh yeah also Aleister won't tell you about the Blasting Rod's true ability and will instead bullshit you into believing it's ability is to make your magic power go out of control.

>>162150434
World Rejector would still activate though.
its THAT bullshit. it will seek a desire and then blast you into that place.

>>162150448
Don't forget FGO make shit ton of money and twitter now flooded with its fanart.

>>162150499
>your magic power
dont have any, does nothing- am muggle

>>162150506
You forget, World Rejector is weak against dogs.

>>162150448
Try to remember a time when all we had was DEEN and maybe your perspective will change.

>>162150538
Mere muggles can be greats as well, anon.

>>162150370
that sounds bullshit
how did Touma ever beat the guy?

>>162150538
Then Alesteir can just ABRACADABRA you to death

>>162150609
shucks

>>162150603
Invisible Thing.
It came down to an magic arm off. WR beat IB but Invisible thing beats WR

>>162149696
this. no contest.
he would just WR every servant to their ideal world

>>162150609
I thought it was ABRAHADABRA?

I maintain that Imagine Breaker would NOT break through Shirou's reality marble.

The whole point of a reality marble is that it isn't some illusion made by mana, it's literally projecting a new reality over an area and replacing the original. If Touma can't destroy the earth by touching it then neither can he break out of UBW.

>index vs fate
>when fate has King Hassan
lol

>>162150528
Index got their own game too but literally no one cares about it.

>>162150697
Then why can IB negate esper powers? Espers are reality warpers forcign their delusional reality into the real reality.

>>162150697
He might not be able to break out of the world of UBW, but he'd still be able to block the swords themselves because they are all mini-noble phantasms.

Hercules slashes him to pieces
Lancelot mows him down with anything he uses
Sasaki kills him with his technique
True assassin crushes his heart
Kuzuki blitzes him
Saber's body is not magical and will therefore kill him before he even realizes it
Giglamesh wins if he actually takes the fight seriously
Kiritsugu kills him with bullets

>>162150802
>Giglamesh wins if he actually takes the fight seriously
translation: Gilgamesh loses

>>162150858
>translation: Gilgamesh loses
He'd just have fun seeing how far he can push his precog before he gets skewered

>>162150945
>hes just having fun with the faker before beating him
>hes just toying with saber before claiming her
>hes just having fun toying with the shadow while killing her
Gilgamesh always loses due to never taking things seriously

>>162150997
Touma has no way of beating Gil though

>>162150997
>>hes just having fun with the faker before beating him
>Shirou has a hard counter to Gob
>>hes just toying with saber before claiming her
>Saber has a conceptual weapon that makes her invincible
>>hes just having fun toying with the shadow while killing her
>concept that hardcounters servants

>>162150945
>Gilgamesh has fun testing pre-cog
>Eventually a sword gets through and just happens to lop off Touma's arm due to Gilgamesh's love of jobbing
>Invisible Thing has it's way with Gil as nothing, even Ea will work on it.