I have actual reason why Shinkai is garbage

>>161813377
>movie director uses known techniques to make his movie more appealing
more news at 11

>>161813377
>-his movies are calculated to entertain, it's mathematically calculated to appeal to people
I thought you were trying to say he was bad at his job. Making something entertaining and appealing is the entire purpose of any form of art.

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I can't wait till every anime looks like this garbage.
Every director will look up to shinkai sensei.

his anime is the highest form of art.

lens flares are auteur.

like im gonna read all that retard shit

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>>161813579
I think what OP is trying to say is that Shinkai is using some weird mind control shit.
I think pixar does that too.

Those are all good things though.
I don't even like Shinkai. None of the characters in his work do anything for me - they feel like empty vessels form him to tell a story through rather than people the story is about.
But it works for other people, so whatever.

>>161813739
except the only support he has is "it's entertaining"
Like the fuck does "it's mathematically calculated to appeal to people" mean? I need that turbo autism translated

>drawing beautiful pictures and knowing how to use structure and music to maximize the impact of moments is bad

OP, you are so fucking stupid it's astounding.

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>>161813579
>>161813739
I found it, it's actually frightening.

https://twitter.com/shinkaimakoto/status/856512972025233408

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>>161813804
>Like the fuck does "it's mathematically calculated to appeal to people" mean?


OP has autism, I think he is talking about this graph that Shinkai posted.
I can't read Japanese though.

here are the twitter links
https://twitter.com/shinkaimakoto/status/856497536546160640

https://twitter.com/shinkaimakoto/status/856512972025233408

>>161813377
>Shinkai is garbage because he makes beautiful movies
Yeah, well, we get it.

>>161813836
>I found it, it's actually frightening.
the fuck is frightening about the guy doing his job?

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/tv here,

I think shikai is a good entertainer.

But he is not kino at all. He has no clue about the art of film making. He should make music videos.

>>161813930
That's not how movies should be made,
the audience is not a fucking machine, we want to be treated like humans, not like some retarded /a fag with autism who jerks off everyday and has no clue about film.

>>161813917
>>161813836
I can't read moon runes but if that's just a graph of the expected emotional impact or tone of the movie as it plays then it's fairly normal

Now if that shit made a pentagram or something besides just graphing the data then I'd be spooked. Seems like OP is just spooked that effort is required to succeed

>>161814064
>it's fairly normal
True auteurs of cinema hate this technique.
Scorsese, Miyazaki, Tarantino, Christopher Nolan, Spielberg, they all disgrace this method.

I think only cheap directors use it in Hollywood.

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>>161814045
>the audience is not a fucking machine, we want to be treated like humans, not like some retarded /a fag with autism who jerks off everyday and has no clue about film.
I love this post

>>161814045
Are you retarded? Do you know what those charts even depict? The y-axis isn't even fucking labelled. It's not careful calculation to manipulate people, it's a graphical representation of structure.

>>161813836
that's not math. youre a fucking idiot.

writers have tried to plan the emotional effect of their work forever. youre a fucking idiot.

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It's a fucking shame Master Anno does not make anime anymore.

I'm tired of shinkai cliche garbagzrusfkehdnhd

I think it's pretty cool to visualize the structure of a movie like this and optimize for maximum viewer enjoyment.

>>161813377
>the movies are so beautiful that they overshadow all the bad issues of the movie.
>his movies are calculated to entertain, it's mathematically calculated to appeal to people
>every time the story becomes boring in Kimi No Na Ha, shinkai drops one of his annoying music videos into the movie so we get back the high tension, it's a cheap technique to get the audience pay attention
There is nothing wrong with any of these.

>>161813836
The fuck is this bullshit.
This nigga shinkai needs to write an actual script instead of drawing graphs.

>>161814323
It's like porn, right?

What is your argument even?
As I get it it's "His films are bad because they look very good, feature similar plotlines (not true btw) and appeal to emotion (like fiction is supposed to)?

>>161813836
If Miyazaki saw this, oh man.
It's like an insult to film making.

>a simple guy like shinkai who was depressed and lonely for years now makes visually pretty movies about characters who overcome their loneliness and depression
>op believes its a conspiracy
nice

>>161814168
>hate this technique.
What technique? Pacing? I can't read moon but thats all im getting out of what this graph represents. Whats next, you don't want them to storyboard?

>>161813377
>- his movies are over the top beautiful, it is like brainwash, the movies are so beautiful that they overshadow all the bad issues of the movie.

This is actually a fact. But it's not the problem with the movie. It's the problem with the viewer. It's not the directors fault the viewer is fucking retarded and drools over pictures instead of watching the movie.

>>161813377
Whilst I agree with you that Shinkai films do feel artificial I think the way you express a lot of the points is off. Your feeling is right though. I think for me it is mostly the art it is all very trite and insincere feeling, saccharine, overly romantic. There is definitely something about this movie too that makes you feel like it was made with the aim of being big rather than an innermost expression of an artists vision, the fingers of the producer just feel like they are all over it. That said he has clearly evolved somewhat this most recent movie actually had decent animation. He will always lack the talent of much better directors like Hosoda, Ikahata, Hara or Miyazaki though for the innate sense of film.

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I think what OP is trying to say is that Kimi No Na Ha is the highest form of escapism.
It has truly no purpose or meaning. All it does is entertain the monkeys (us)

>>161813377
Got through your first week of Film 101 i'm guessing? I get that you are itching to flex your new academic muscles but you might want to wait a bit to fully grasp the subject matter before you embarrass yourself.

>>161813836
>>161814459
It's actually how writing works for film or otherwise.
You plan out a pace so the viewer stays interested until the end, you know what you are supposed to do.
This is just the same every writer does except more explicit.

>>161813836
>>161813917
This has been done for thousands of years, the Greeks structured plays similarly to this.

>>161813991
This is basically entirely correct.

>>161813377
>he is ruining our minds
Stopped reading there, you drama queen.

>>161814509
>That said he has clearly evolved somewhat this most recent movie actually had decent animation.

That's because he literally hired Miyazaki's Animation Supervisor for this movie.

I don't think he evolved, he can now simply afford better animators.

>>161813991
And Quentin "tehhee i said nigger" Tarantino somehow is kino?

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>>161813836
>giving your narrative proper pacing is frightening
This is something all writers who are even semi-serious do. It's not a cynical attempt to create a successful story by machine, it's just basic narrative structuring.

Stories aren't just birthed from the aether, there's a lot of thought that goes into how to properly tell them to recieve the desired effect.

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>>161814557
>you know what you are supposed to do.

Hayao Miyazaki never knows the outcome of his movies.
Miyazaki doesn't even plan his movies,
Hayao Miyazaki doesn't even use a screenplay.

Hayao Miyazaki draws the storyboard, they start the movie production before they even finish the storyboard, they don't even know the end of the movie while they are working on it.

>>161814168
>Scorsese, Miyazaki, Tarantino, Christopher Nolan, Spielberg, they all disgrace this method.
But they all use it, to some degree. It's basic storytelling.

>>161814741
Which is why some of them are a complete disaster, most notably Ponyo.

>>161814499
>It's not the directors fault the viewer is fucking retarded and drools over pictures instead of watching the movie.
I don't even see whats wrong with this, as if somehow enjoying the animation/cinematography is some knuckledraggers way of enjoying a film. It's a visual medium, there is tons of time, effort and artistry involved and isn't done simply to have a visual mouthpiece for the script to be spewed out of. Scenes and backgrounds have purpose beyond being something to look at that even amateur filmmakers make use of to tell the story. I may be going overboard interpreting what you meant but I just wanted to make the point that it is plenty valid to enjoy a movie simply for its visual merits or technical achievements.

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>>161814675
>Stories aren't just birthed from the aether
Hayao Miyazaki starts the movies production before he even finished the storyboard.


This is a fact.

Shinkai will never ever top Miyazaki.

>>161814168
They all use it, they have to, because that is the essence of writing fiction.
Whether you say out loud or not doesn't really matter, you still use it all the same.

>>161814656
He doesn't afford things. Big companies decided to back him as the next Miyazaki and gave him a big budget thats all. His use of digital post processing has improved too, it isn't quite as garish as it used to be.

>>161814775
at least they feel natural and genuine.

Shinkai's movies are just an entertainment machine.
Shinkai is the Michael Bay of anime.

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>>161814801
What I meant is that OP by stating it as a movie's issue is suggesting directors should now intentionally downgrade visual quality to match average viewer's mindset so that they can see beyond visuals.

Which is obviously fucking stupid, there is NO such thing as "over the top beautiful", is OP literally retarded?

>>161813377
>-Tokyo looks so beautiful in his movie, it's just abnormal, anybody who has been there knows that's not what tokyo really looks like.
>He captures a fake tokyo.

This, actually.

Tokyo is one of the worst looking cities on earth. It has its charm of being ugly, but it is anything but beautiful.

shinkai uses basic techniques but executes them very well. he's a craftsman, not an innovator.

which is fine. if you can't appreciate something that's conceptually simple but well made, you're probably an idiot and need to kill yourself. or at least shut up.

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>>161814825
Hayao Miyazaki doesn't use it.
Hayao Miyazaki only draws a storyboard.
No graphs, no plans, no scrupt, just storyboard.

>>161814045
>not like some retarded /a fag with autism who jerks off everyday and has no clue about film
This is ironic coming from you.

>>161814456
No, what OP is trying to say is "his films are bad because they good."

>>161814741
>>161814805
You are missing the point is that somewhere, even if it's in the back of his mind he is doing this. Just because he is a creative genius by using one method doesn't mean other even half way decent directors have to use the same creative process.

>>161814904
>if you write out your plans instead of just keeping them in your head during the film process this automatically makes you a hack who can't produce True Art (tm)
Sure thing anon.

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Hayao Miyazaki doesn't use so many digital effects on his movies, yet they look 10 times more beautiful than any Shinkai movie, I wonder why.

>>161814541
Like all art?

>>161814885
>is OP literally retarded?
Judging by some of the responses by who I assume is the OP, yes.

>>161814857
So many words, but so little has been said.

>>161814999
Because he has locked up many innocent animators in his basement working for about 300 yen an hour each

>>161814885
>"over the top beautiful"
There is "over the top beautiful"

The tokyo that Shinkai depicts in Your Name is the fakest shit ever, it actually convinced some faggots to go to Tokyo because they think the city actually looks like Shinkai's movie.

It's a fucking illusion.

Also the girl in the movie that dreams to go to tokyo is retarded, Tokyo is not a nice city to live in, it's fucking busy and tough unless you are a tourist.

>>161814509
This is the best reply in this thread.

>>161814741
>>161814805
>>161814904
>muh miyazaki
What's your point? Miyazaki is an autistic savant of animation, if the only people allowed to make movies had to be on his level there would be nothing to watch this year.

Do you think when Tesla died people just sat there in the dark until he was reincarnated as Elon Musk or something?

>>161815101
I never got the impression from the movie that hey was trying to convey Tokyo as anything other then just being Tokyo. It hardly came off as some sort of beautiful Utopian city, just a regular metropolitan area. I feel like your hate-boner is raging too hard that you are inventing shit in your mind to get mad at.

>A teenage girl who lives in bum-fuck nowhere romanticizes the big city
Was this movie your first exposure to a story centering around young adults?

>>161814904
It's the same shit, it just looks more impressive.
Do you think his movies just come to him on the toilet?

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We have reached to the point where /a is actually defending Shinkai.

Only because OP is such a retard, thanks OP.

>>161815101
Every real life location Miyazaki has depicted look more beautiful than real life, what the fuck! How could he do this? Can you imagine the betrayal I felt when I visited Italy and it was nowhere as beautiful as approx Russo depicted? Terrible!

>>161815255
only because the things OP picks up on are actually fucking stupid
shinkai is genuinely not that great, but these arguments are just utterly shit

>>161815255
I don't even see any of these posts as defending Shinkai, but rather just attacking OP's retarded arguments.

MAKOTO SHINKAI IS THE GREATEST FILM MAKER OF OUR TIME NOW:
SHUT TGE FUFCJIF OFFF OP

SHINAI MOVIE IS 10/10

WHY ELSE IS IT NOW THE MOST SUCCESFUL ANIME OF ALL TIME HUH??

BECAUSE IT BETTER THAN ANIME MOVIE EVER


DUDE!

>>161813917
>>161813836

Neither of these graphs have a labeled Y Axis, what are they even supposed to be showing when they go up and down??

>>161815255
Yes, this level of criticism is not acceptable, no matter who you're criticizing.
"the films are badly written because Shinkai puts a lot of thought into them and they elicit a strong emotional response?"
What kind of argument is that even?
"It's bad because it is good?"

>>161815367
welp guys
OP just had a breakdown because of us

>>161815375
nihongo fag here,
when it goes up and down it's supposed to show how excited the audience gets.

Shinkai didn't even make this movie, did you all forget about Keit-Al?

>>161815375
I don't know but I just checked it,
the graph goes up every time a music video drops.

>>161815402
It's some bizarre manifestation of the notion that real art is supposed to come from the heart and not the brain taken to a retarded extreme.

Basically if you're not god's gift to the world who can breathe life into films with a swish of your fingertips without a single rational thought entering your head then you're a fucking sociopath who isn't trying to create real art but merely a facsimile of it created by cold, unfeeling calculated logic.

>>161815375
They're meant to depict excitement/engagement throughout the story. You start off moderately high to get the audience interested in the premise, then slowly bring it down as they become acquainted with the world, then introduce a twist that grabs their attention again, and so on.

You can't have a story that's justa flatline of high octance excitement or it loses it becomes exhausting or irritating, so you have to have some lulls to make the big scenes more engaging.

>>161815255
The thing I find most interesting about this is how obsessed people can get over famous people and how personally they get offended when the clout of that person is questioned. Not to say you can't criticize artists, or disagree with comparisons between the two but it's interesting how many traits people apply to human beings they have never met to build one up and knock one down. You can love or hate someones work, its just funny the lengths people go to not only criticize the work, but prop the creator up as if they are operating in all the most malicious ways to achieve the success or notoriety they have and won't give them a single ounce of credit.

>>161815402
The films aren't bad because they have a lot of thought put into them, they are bad because they are too blatant about it. The person who puts the smallest amount of thought into it past just passively observing can see the director and producers hand in the film. It is the lack of subtlety and bluntness that make them bad. Compare it to a film like Only Yesterday where as the themes are so delicate and understated, that is what good art looks like in my opinion. Shinkai is good entertainment though and I would never take that away from him.

>>161813377
>-his movies are calculated to entertain, it's mathematically calculated to appeal to people

????????????????????????????????

That makes him bad? Drink bleach, please.

Well, OP is pretty retarded but it is true that Shinkai and his producers made this movie only with the purpose of it to become a big hit.
It was never supposed to be some high art or anything, I think everyone is aware that this is an entertaining movie and not anything kino, which makes OP even more retarded. Why even make this thread?

>>161815679
This whole thread, and the fact that people are replying seriously just blows my mind.
A move that is created to entertain, with the purpose of being a big hit, and actually succeeds? Holy shit, call the presses, how could this be?

>>161815679
this. I think OP is baiting.

>>161815656
Notice how no one here is actually arguing that Kimi no Na Wa is an especially impressive piece of art.

But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a cynical attempt at a cash grab either. Some directors or writers simply have styles that resonate with the normie zeitgeist of the time, why do you think Game of Thrones blew up as big as it did?

>>161815837
Because it's a quality show.

>>161815837
I can see where you are coming from to some extent. It's not as if the film has no merit. I just get the feeling from the film that Shinkai was coached heavily by producers into making a hit with his style. It feels quite cynical to me. Sure there is always an element of luck in something hitting it as big as this film did but at the same time I think the producers involved did everything humanly possible to enable it to become that hit and you can feel it in the film itself. Even if you compare it to previous Shinkai films.

>>161815939
>I just get the feeling from the film that Shinkai was coached heavily by producers into making a hit with his style. It feels quite cynical to me. Sure there is always an element of luck in something hitting it as big as this film did but at the same time I think the producers involved did everything humanly possible to enable it to become that hit and you can feel it in the film itself.
Not that anon but what do you mean by all this? I want to at least attempt to see what you are seeing because I just don't get any of these impressions at all. Maybe i'm just not as critical (or observant) as you or others, or I haven't watched enough anime films, but i'm just not seeing this "forced" stuff some people are talking about.

>>161815939
I'm sure there was plenty of talk about the marketability of the film and that it didn't get through production unmolested. It wasn't a passion project made by an underdog studio who really, truly believed in what they were making.

But that doesn't drain it of all artistic merit. There is just no way the movie would've been made at all if the people behind it weren't actually interested in the material. If you want to talk meritless trash cynically pushed out to make a quick buck, just try to compare Your Name to any Adam Sandler film of the last decade.

>>161816051
Honestly I don't think I would be able to entirely express it in words with very much ease without thinking about it a long time. It is kind of like pornography as in you know it when you see it.

>>161816078
I don't think I would disagree with any of that at all. I don't rate Shinkai much as an artist or director though but I will still say it was an entertaining and engaging film.

>>161816138
>I don't rate Shinkai much as an artist or director though but I will still say it was an entertaining and engaging film.
Yeah, I watched the movie for the first time just a few days ago and enjoyed it plenty, but didn't see in it all the magic that people had been claiming it had. You always have to adjust your expectations for normies.

The symbolism was very on the nose and obvious so that the normie audience wouldn't miss it, the themes were laid out plainly without much subtlety, etc. I don't know how much of this to blame on pandering to the lowest common denominator or Shinkai's own writing though, because some people just have styles with that mass market appeal. and I can't really begrudge them their success just because I prefer another director's more nuanced style over theirs, even if I consider it objectively superior.

What made me respond was the implication that stuff like >>161813836 was inherently a negative. I like writing and find stuff like narrative structure and story pacing really interesting, and think it's really good to map out your plots like this because it's important to know when to de-escalate the tension to give the reader a break so the next jump in excitement has the intended effect. It's really interesting stuff, and not necessarily born from a cynical attempt at manipulating the audience into fake-liking your movie.

>>161816509
>fake-liking
What the fuck is this supposed to mean.

>>161813377
It's Japanese propaganda to promote their country idiot

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>>161813377
I watched it today, it was fucking great. I actually cried a little during the newspaper reveal.

Also, I never realized the string goes around the entire head.

>>161816509
I definitely agree that there are a lot, and I mean a lot of anime films that just get this basic premise of good storytelling entirely wrong. I often walk away from anime films feeling like visually the director had a good grasp on what makes a good shot and the animation was beautiful but you just have this feeling like where was the plot even going, what was supposed to be going on there? You will have this meandering plot and then suddenly out of nowhere there is some resolution at the end that doesn't even tie up half of the points raise. I think this film definitely did a good job of making the audience feel like it had a satisfying conclusion. A lot of the time an anime film feels like the story was an excuse for the animation and this film didn't feel like that at the very least if I had to say some good things about it.

>>161817486
You must have incredibly low standards.

>>161813377
I agree to a certain point. I don't think he evolved either, he does seem to make the same movie over and over again but with some variation here and there. It's fairly cheap, sometimes soap opera esque, romance/coming of age stuff. Nothing sticks with you, go in and to be fair also enjoy it but then go out and forget about it. It's proper flick shit but nothing else, never rewatched anything the dude made or thought twice about it.
Also agree with the overly popish music that gets used every 20 minutes but Japs love doing that shit in live-action as well.

>>161817953
I think the world and setting in Children Who Chase Lost Voices had a certain intrigue to it beyond his usual films when they go into the other world place. Thematically it is very samey though. It seems like his premature attempt to be the next Ghibli before Ghibli was dead.

>>161817830
Maybe, I'm happier that way.

Didn't cry from Shuumatsu, they really screwed up.

>>161815101
Everything you've ever seen in a live action movie is an illusion. Actors wear makeup and have custom designed clothes, sets and locations are lit and shot a certain way to produce a particular aesthetic, and even then things are edited in post to nail down the desired effect even more precisely.

You haven't made an argument, you're just saying dumb shit that makes no sense.

>>161818781
>Everything you've ever seen in a live action movie is an illusion. Actors wear makeup and have custom designed clothes, sets and locations are lit and shot a certain way to produce a particular aesthetic, and even then things are edited in post to nail down the desired effect even more precisely.
What is dogme 95?

Shinkai's is a master at cinematography, but it's the only thing he's good at. Still not a single memorable character in all his movies.

>>161813377
Lol nice bait

>27 posters
Nice 'discussion'
While I agree that Shinkai makes the same movie over and over he knows how to appeal and that's why he succeeds. Good for him.

>>161819132
In my experience a lower number of posters probably indicates a more in depth level of discussion rather than superficial commenting.