Why is Evangelion legendary with even the most pleb of anime

>>161169849
Evangelion is mostly a show about gorgeously animated giant robots wrecking shit up and everyone loves that.

Utena is just another mahou shoujo show.
Same reason why people don't give a fuck about SDF Macross, Ideon and what have you.

>>161169849
>with even the most pleb of anime fans having seen it
You have the answer right there.
Eva is for plebs, Utena for patricians.

i didn't enjoy either outside the visuals and symbolism

>>161169849
Okay, now it's the time to kill this thread by starting waifu wars.

I want to bang Anthy, is that normal?

>>161169849
deference in audience

also you have to take Utena seriously whereas Eva is a meme show

>>161170143
Anthy has a terrible design and is the worst aspect of the show so that's pretty abnormal

>>161169997
>Evangelion is mostly a show about gorgeously animated giant robots wrecking shit up and everyone loves that.

The fights make up very little of the show. I wouldn't say "mostly."

>>161170143
most of /a/ hates her on a fundamental basis so probably not

>>161170204
This, except the very opposite.

>>161169997
Confirmed for never having watched Utena. Or at least never having understood it,.

>>161170157
You tellin' me that a girl turning into a cow, a giant tower that looks like a penis, pulling swords from people, and turning into cars isn't meme material?

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>>161170204
Did you even watch the show? Or is it just utter shit taste?

>>161170370
that's more comedy relief/symbolism

>>161170371
watching the show would make one hate Anthy

>>161169849
I dropped it. Utena was 2deep4me.

>>161170450
You expect the average /a/ viewer to understand symbolism that isn't spelled out to them?

Seems like the thread to ask, what are some good magical girl mangas? I mean stuff with characters and plot not just fanservice

>>161170557
>>>/wsr/

>>161170535
Hence the unpopularity

>>161170290
>The fights make up very little of the show. I wouldn't say "mostly."

Budgetary reasons.

Still, you watch the show mostly for the pieces where an Eva or an angel wrecks shit apart.
Inbetween that you have gorgeous shots of Tokyo 3.

The characters or the setting don't raise much attention until like 3/4ths of the way through.
It's a show you'd drop after 3 episodes if all you got was Shinji whining his eyes off inside a boring background of a white room.

You are presented with him crying against great backgrounds and whenever action starts, it's amazing to watch. And that is why you don't drop the show like a hot potato then and there.

>>161170557
Fuck off

>>161169849
Because Eva has more visceral affect for sexually disconcerted young men.

>>161170557
you know we don't give recommendations

ask /wsr/

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>>161170711
Are you sure about that, now?

>>161170723

i actually dont i just started lurking here

fine I'll go as wsr

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>>161170765
Wrong webm.

>>161169849
Utena is one of those series that I know it's good, I can see why people love it. But, for some reason, I couldn't enjoy it at all.

>>161169997
so much bait in one post.

>>161170800
You really think Shinji sympathizers will relate to this?

Because Adolescence isn't a better movie than EoE

>>161170800
>main character seduced and deflowered by the villain
Boys tend to hate this

>>161170889
It's not about being "better", it's about being able to appreciate both. Yet few are able to even appreciate Eva outside of bandwagoning, and for those that can, even fewer have seen Utena.

>>161171031
Anyone who can think with the brain in their head and not their dick and see the scene's significance besides "lol stupid bitch fell to da black cock". This means most of /a/ won't.

>>161170881
>relate
No, hate it, like most people should. Does "visceral affect" imply relatability? No, so elaborate.

>>161171051
How do I get Eva fans to watch Utena?

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>>161171093
>stupid bitch fell to da black cock
This is literally the significance of that scene. The pure prince is no more.

>>161170795
T W O Y E A R S
W
O
Y
E
A
R
S

>>161171167
The significance is that the prince was never "pure" to begin with (what is "purity" to begin with?) and has completely fallen to the submission of an adult figure.
But that page is about the depth the average /a/ viewer would get from the scene.

>>161171121
You're right, I wasn't being precise. Being personally involved with Shinji's character conflict is vital to Evangelion's popularity. Its intended audience is (as Anno made explicit in various interviews) otaku. And as it turns out, the (male) otaku sexual condition is pretty much identical to the frustrated young male's sexual condition.

>>161171031
This didn't go over well with girls either. Her disoriented talking after it is really uncomfortable.

>>161171298
And girls are more comfortable seeing a 14-year-old boy jerk off over the comatose body of a 14-year-old girl?

>>161170795
>just started lurking here
You don't know what lurking is if you are posting. Please do not post until you've been here for a significant amount of time. You are not welcome until you do.

>>161171455
Girls are comfortable with anything as long as there's a gay ship to sail, and Kaworu showed up first

>>161171553
Gay sex happens in Utena, too. Not just "I love you", but actual male dicks going into actual male asses.

>>161169849
Utena was pure garbage except for the Nanami episodes.

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>>161171250
>The significance is that the prince was never "pure" to begin with (what is "purity" to begin with?)
Utena was pure until she succumbed to Akio, and gave up her ideals. That's exactly what makes the scene so devastating. What the hell are you talking about with this "what is purity" nonsense?

>>161169849
Utena gets lots of love. There are anime which are as good or as influential which get loads less attention

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>>161171643
Never happened, not even once, you idiot. Unless you mean the film, but that was non-consensual.

>>161171774
"Purity" is an unattainable ideal. Even people perceived as "pure" have thoughts and ideas we could consider "impure".

>>161171835
Akio fucked Touga and Ruka, mate.

>>161171835
The shadows of Akio and Touga were seen fucking in one episode.

>>161171835
>He thinks Akio was posing with Touga just for fun

>>161169849
Because Utena's main premise is shallow depraved degenerates sleeping around and being all around shitty people.

No one would actually like that.

Because Utena simply isn't as good as people think it is. People think that Utena is a brilliant work because of the "symbolism" when it's just basic in-your-face shit or just fan-fiction that a handful of people made up to make themselves feel smart for liking a boring villain-of-the-week show.

>>161169849
Both eva and utena are trash.

>>161171960
You could literally say the same thing about Eva. Minus the sleeping around, but then again that shit still happened with everyone who was an adult in the series.

>>161171869
That's not really a theme in the show though

>>161171980
Sounds like someone didn't understand Utena. Most people I've talked to don't understand Utena. Not by a mile. You overestimate the average viewer's patience and intelligence.

>>161172109
Proving my point

>>161172118
Proving my point

>>161172052
None of the character's in Eva where genuinely shitty people.
At worst they were slow to trust and kept other's at a distance.

>>161169849
Weird pointy faces and hyperfeminine aesthetic turn plebs(male) off from Utena

>>161171889
>>161171952
All wrong. Goddamn, you sick fujo shippers. Utterly delusional - the slightest hint of literally nothing is enough for you to form a contrived conclusion. You're the same people who have delusions about Shinji and Kaworu, I bet.
>>161171958
That was to show Akio's corrupting influence as a playboy. At that point in time the narrative is still vague of his true nature, and this serves to slowly bring it out and make the audience aware, and to hint that his friendship with Utena has ulterior motives. And the car rides are always at a girl's expense, with Akio commandeering.

>>161172168
>None of the character's in Eva where genuinely shitty people.
No one in Utena was shitty either, minus Akio, and even then he was only shitty because he had become corrupted. See: Dios.

>>161172210
>pointing out the fact that akio fucked dudes as well means you're a shipper
Very.

>>161172210
>wrong
Akio's car was literally a metaphor for sex.

>>161169849
I enjoy both by quite the ample amount. I wish people would stop complaining as if popularity even matters anyway.

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>>161172210
>Utterly delusional - the slightest hint of literally nothing is enough for you to form a contrived conclusion
?????? Did you completely forget about this scene?

>>161172275
>No one in Utena was shitty either
who is saionji
who is nanami
who is shiori

>>161172289
He doesn't, though.
>>161172298
Yes, as I mention. But not strictly (some car rides are different than others, if you notice, and don't follow the formula), and not for gay sex.

>>161172210
It's not just a "slight hint". The way their bodies are arched makes it pretty clear that one of them is fucking then other.
And not a fujo, since most BL is complete fucking shit, but nice way to create an "us vs. them" mentality to actually avoid having to defend your point.

>>161172210
Damn nigga you're insecure about Akio getting shit on his dick

>>161172362
And even the shittiest of people are simply broken and can revolutionize themselves and grow.

>>161172362
Hold up, Nanami was barely a shitty person. Sure, she killed a cat when she was a kid, but she was still a fucking idiot child back then.

>>161172483
>but she was still a fucking idiot child back then.
I guess you forgot the entire subplot of her continually shitting on Anthy and Utena out of jealousy.

>>161172275
>No one in Utena was shitty either
Wrong, they're literally all shallow shitbags that sleep around.

>>161169849
of having seen both, i found Utena more enjoyable than Evangelion.

>>161172512
>shitting on
As if anything she did to them was a big deal relative to everything else that happens in the series.

>>161172546
She was purposely bullying them to make them feel like shit. Jesus you're retarded if you don't understand this. She's a shitty person.

>>161172350
This is to suggest Akio is manipulating them into images of himself (a playboy) so they can challenge Utena and reduce the strength of her ideals. Notice Akio does not participate, just like he does not participate in the car rides, instead riding on the hood (i.e. the instigator).

>>161172168
>None of the character's in Eva where genuinely shitty people.
l o l

>>161172512
Sp I suppose every junior high school-aged girl who tries hurting people out of jealousy and insecurity is a shitty person, then, even if they'll most likely grow out of it in a matter of years.

>>161172654
>Sp I suppose every junior high school-aged girl who tries hurting people out of jealousy and insecurity is a shitty person
Yes?

>>161172577
anon...where you also bullied?

>>161172362
Saionji wasn't a bad person, neither was Nanami if you decided to finish the anime.

Shiori was pretty bad though.

>>161172522
Nah, you're wrong.

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>>161172405
>The way their bodies are arched makes it pretty clear that one of them is fucking then other.
No, it doesn't. That is sexualized imagery, as in playboyism, not "gay sex" imagery. You're literally making things up, and have come to baseless conclusions for reasons that can only be you yourself wanting them gay. So my "fujo" remarks are not misplaced in the slightest.
Want more proof? How about the film, which puts the yuri undertones to max. Ikuhara makes it clear it's not about male relationships.

>>161172738
Shiori, just like everyone else, is seen mending her relationship at the end.

>>161172168
I'm pretty sure everyone in Eva besides Rei was a shitty person, if you didnt see how bad they were then you must be a shitty person in real life too.

>>161172787
Maya is not shitty!

>>161172522
Except there are only a few characters who who can confirm slept together.

Utena/Akio (consent debatable)
Anthy/Akio (consent debatable)
Akio/Touga
Kozue/Akio (likely)
Kozue/Touga (likely)
Shiori/Ruka

And the rest is basically fan speculation.
So, no, not everyone in this show "sleeps" around.

>>161172646
Thank you instantly invalidating your own stance by saying shit like "lol".

>>161172760
Good counter. You sure showed how they're not shallow degenerates that sleep around.

>>161172863
What about Touga/Saionji? Saionji was pretty confident in that one episode.

>>161172863
>Shiori/Ruka
That didn't happen.

>>161172840
I didnt watch the cash grab remakes, but i bet she was a shitty person.

>>161172884
>Good counter. You sure showed how they're not shallow degenerates that sleep around.
They aren't though. Maybe watch the show before you make stupid accusations like that.

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>>161172787
No, not one was, not even Gendo. You completely disregard their circumstances and their place if you believe this. They were "real" people, and had negative character traits like all people do, but not outright "shitty". What you're suggesting is along the same lines as Shinji being a "whiny bitch", etc, in regards to his wallowing and depression - people who think that completely disregard his circumstances, and thus his character.

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Stop fighting.

>>161172168
>>161172787
>>161172934
There's a difference between characters being "broken" and being shitty. Eva walks a thin line between the two with a lot of characters

>>161172787
>I'm pretty sure
Well, you're wrong. Not sure enough.
What makes you think they're shitty people?

>>161172922
They are though. Maybe watch the show before you make stupid accusations like that.

>>161172762
Having gay relationships doesn't make something about "gay relationships". See Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura, etc.

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>>161172970
Start fighting.

>>161169849
utena isn't as good. that's all there is to it. it's a great series and that's why it's been extremely popular for two decades, but evangelion is unironically a master jewel of the medium and nothing really competes with it. best selling single series of all time here. utena's got chains on the ground, about ten episodes too long as demonstrated by the nanami filler. the repetition isn't always fun. some of the arcs are lame. the weakest part of eva on the other hand is hard to pin down, and may be as tame as a few two minute scenes.

>>161170029
both are good.

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>>161172970
>yfw Ikuhara will never reciprocate Anno's love

>>161172976
Most of the cast of Utena are teenagers. Teenagers are shitty people, and most of them grow out of it. The series itself is about growing up and growing past childish ideals.

If anything, the characters in Eva have less excuse, since a larger portion of them are adults.

I like both shows, by the way, so arguing which is better with me is pointless.

>>161170535
Well, not when it's based on Japanese puns or prewar literature.

>>161173098
Nanami episodes aren't filler. Most of them are telling the story of the series in a different way. Anthy is a counterpart to Anthy. The only one I'd agree is filler is the curry one.

>>161173248
*Nanami is a counterpart to Anthy.

>>161173098
I bet you're the same faggot who thinks the shadow girls are filler too.

>>161173248
What's up with the curry episode? Just another way of showing that Utena is super oblivious?

>>161173248
all of the "nanami episodes", beginning to end had a completely different tone and narrative style than the rest of the series. it was as though they were written by a completely different person, intended for an entirely different audience. they had a supremely standalone nature relative to other episodes, they were missing all of the repeating tropes of the rest of the series. they stand out, and they suck.

>>161173300
what, you talking about the greek chorus deal? that shit was cool.

>>161173300
>I bet you're the same faggot who thinks the shadow girls are filler too.
They're not filler but they are shit

>>161169849
take a look at that fucking picture you posted and tell me who outside of /a/ could relate to that shit?

Either way your comparing apples to oranges here my man.

>>161173500
Yes, but they were similar to the Shadow Girls. They were simply a different way of looking at the story, while also providing comic relief. Ikuhara enjoys tone shifts.

If you disliked them, then that's you. However, they are more than just filler.

>>161169849
Characters in Utena can't be boiled down to basic traits like "tsundere", "kuudere" or "beta bitch boy" like they can in Eva, meaning that plebs can't understand them.

That and Utena doesn't spell out it's message and themes at the end in bold letters like Eva does meaning that they're less likely to understand the show as a whole. Most people didn't understand Eva despite it beating you over the head with the point, so what hope is there of inderstanding something as subtle as Utena?

>>161173966
there aren't any tsunderes in evangelion, but there are in utena.

>>161174037
Depends who you ask. Some would call Asuka a tsundere.

Who in Utena could be considered a tsundere?

>>161174143
>Some would call Asuka a tsundere.
that would just make them wrong.

touga.

>>161174210
How is Touga a tsundere. Like, at all?

>>161174373
He's in love with Utena, even though he doesn't admit it for the longest time.

>>161174400
He doesn't come off as "bitchy", though. He comes off as charming and confident, but arrogant.

Asuka comes of as very bitchy and aggressive, and is constantly putting Shinji down and telling him that he's below her. However, deep down, she loves (or is at least is very attracted to) him and doesn't want to admit it to herself. Hidden below her "bitchy" exterior is an insecure little girl who just wants the loving attention of the person she cares about most deeply.
To some, that is textbook tsundere.

>>161169849
>and not Utena
Because it's literal gay shit that no one can even remotely relate to or want to relate to other than a small minority.

>>161174210
>>161174037
Asuka is like the archetype of tsundere what the fuck are you smoking

>>161174587
For what it's worth, I don't actually consider either show to have characters shallow enough to just call "tsundere", "kuudere", "beta bitch boy", etc.
I save those kinds of labels for more shallow shows which don't put any effort into developing characters beyond their exterior appearance.

>>161174660
>a show that has only one actual gay character who isn't even the protagonist is "gay"
>themes like growing up and moving past childish ideas aren't something most people can relate to
'kay.

>>161169849
Lots of people love both. Usually if you respect one, you respect the other. Utena was really influentual, but more on specific creators, while Eva was a big influence for the industry as a whole.

I can undertand though how people might not be able to get into Utena, while they can into Eva. It's because of the repetetive structure for 3/4 of the show. I mean sure, it is justified and the character expoloration is grat. But still technically and visually you are seeing the some several minute-long sequence with the dialogue being different. Eva has a bit MOTW component to it, but every fight is rather different from each other, occurs in different moments of the ep and we don't even get one every ep.

I would also say Eva has a bit more psychological depth. Both have complex characters, explore their traumas and how people influence each other. But Eva went a bit deeper with the influence parents have on children.

I'd still give both 10/10, there's really nothing like them.

>>161174811
What made Eva so influential? Serious question my memory is kinda foggy but I remember hearing that anime at the time weren't really serious or were mainly adaptions of manga and didn't have an original story like Eva. Then I guess it kinda paved the way for more originals to be made?

Childhood is idolizing Eva.
Youth is realizing Utena makes more sense.
Adulthood is understanding Dual Parallel Trouble Adventure is the peak of anime.

>>161172362
And yet by the end of things both Saionji and Nanami were the most aware people in the show, and frankly Juri really was a creepy beta orbiter during the Ruka incident

Reminder that Anthy is a bitch who instigates all the duels, and that she bullies Nanami just as, if not harder back

>>161175055
Yeah, more original tv anime. More adult-oriented tv anime and seinen adaptations (Bebop, Trigun, Berserk, Now and Then). More experimental shows and in general a big trend for the surreal/mind-fuck/psychological shows in the few years after it (Lain, Utena, Big O). Eva was also the last straw for Gainax, so it would have gon bankrupt and I we would never get their later shows or Khara and Trigger as a result.

I of course mentioned the most known ones but then there are lots of the shows that most people have forgot by know and there was a clear influence: Gasaraki, Neo Ranga or Betterman.

This also in general lead to the blow up of tv anime and its versification. This is one of the main differences between Eva and Gundam, since the later mainly had an influence on other mecha anime.

So in general if you like any post-95 anime that happen to be a tv show and aren't shounen/shoujo/kids series then there's a big chance it exists thanks to Eva in some way.

>>161175299
>she bullies Nanami just as, if not harder back
truly best girl

Nobody likes lesbian shit

>>16117537
Only one girl is a lesbian, and she's not the main character. Most are bisexual.

>>161169849
Utena has a higher barrier to entry because one has to acclimate oneself to the "girly" motifs that male society is taught to frown upon

I think Ikuhara is a hack, and really don't find Utena all that interesting. BUT I think because the tumblr beached whales also praise this show its a major deterrent for people who don't like those specific groups of people.

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>>161175550
Hol up

>>161175550
Utena existed long before tumblr or the "participation award generation" did.

A group of people you don't like deterring you from watching and enjoying something is high school level bullshit.

>>161175550
Those individuals are going to be attracted to anything featuring a strong woman or any form of diversity.

It'd be moronic to write off legit masterpieces because of that, especially since the Eva community attracts equally cancerous individuals.

>>161175631
WE WUZ REBOLUSHUNERRY N SHEIT

>>161175631
Western Utena
Eastern Utena

Observe the difference.

>>161171960
Scum's Wish was one of the biggest shows of its season.

>>161175878
HOL UP
*steals Akio's car*
SO YOU BE SAYIN'...
*puts too many spices in the curry*
YOU BE SAYIN'
*brings Glock to the dueling arena*
WE WUZ DUELISTS 'N SHEEEIT

>boy watches mecha
>boy grows up
>boy watches Eva -- is surprised at how mature it is

>girl watches mahoushoujo
>girl grows up
>stops watching cartoons

>>161176483
Your point being?

>>161176296
Kek

>>161175690
4chan is most angsty teens and always has been so that should be what you expect